How will the Tory betting look after tonight’s TV debate? – politicalbetting.com

FrancisUrquhart said:

A week is a long time in politics....

Staplerfahrer Mogg about to set off on his first day of real work then?

kle4 said:

No one should have a bad final statement. It's the one thing you can 100% prepare for. If you cock that up you should quit the race.

Talking of which, how many times did Spend-a-Penny say "cock" this evening?

TimS said:

Sunak seemed reasonably serious and on top of his brief, but unexciting. Truss is awful. The rest just seemed poor.

My wife’s comment on Kemi: she sounded like she was in an interview for school prefect.

I think it's fair to say that nation is not spoilt for choice

My ranking for tonight based on what I think the actual selectorate will think:

1.) Rishi- He had grown up answers and the audience liked a lot of them. Did enough to keep the mainstream MPs onside

2.) Penny- I didn’t think she was brilliant but I don’t think she’ll have frightened anyone from the other candidate’s camps into not backing her.

3.) Kemi- She came across really well but I don’t think she will have answered the all important question of experience. You can’t keep calling things out in the name of honesty if you don’t actually have any answers.

4.) Tom- Seemed to be running for leader of the Lib Dems by doing a Nick Clegg impression. I’d vote for him which is an excellent reason why the Tory Party won’t

5.) Liz- Just dire. I genuinely feared for her health at times.

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

MaxPB said:

Instead of flouncing George Osborne should have played the long game, he'd be running rings around all of them and he'd probably give Kemi No. 11, he shouldn't have taken being sacked by May so personally.

Osborne would probably have failed to beat Corbyn and a resurgent Farage

No, I mean he should have stuck around and waited out Theresa May, then made a play for a big role under Boris then laid in wait for Boris to implode. He'd be far and away the favourite today.

Nah, he's part of the Ancien Regime. He'd have no place in today's Conservative Party.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

No he’s not, he’s lower middle class.
Same as Mordaunt.

It says it all about the current Tory party that much the best performer on the night is the runner who stands no chance at all.

Truss was hilariously bad, sadly, because I was desperate for her to win for the lolz.

Poshness rating.

1, Tugendhat
2, Sunak
3, Truss
4, Badenoch
5, Mordaunt

But none are working class.

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Mordaunt isn't working class.
We've been over this.

Carnyx said:

IshmaelZ said:

williamglenn said:

What?

She's quite right. When did you last see a Watt governor on an NHS ward?

OTOH the underlying principle of cybernetic feedback is absolutely fundamental to many a bit of NHS kit. As are, for instance, the basic principles of electromagnetism, the atomic theory of chenistry, and the concept of the genetic message encapsulated in the DNA sequence. Not to mention the notion of the wotsit electronic thingy spread over the C6H5- hexagon, the germ theorh of disease, the development of modern ventilation and sanitation, and so on and so forth.

Is there a link to this 180 innovations shit? Would love to read down it and call bullshit...

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

I've been on for Team Mordaunt all week, and she will likely as not still win.

You may still feel some stirring in the trouser region for her, but most of the rest of us feel she would be found out against Starmer, who I agree is not a great performer.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Conservative voters

Tugendhat 29%
Sunak 28%
Mordaunt 15%
Badenoch 12%
Truss 10%

Mordaunt is out

Disappointed that Badenoch didn't do better with these voters.

turbotubbs said:

Carnyx said:

IshmaelZ said:

williamglenn said:

What?

She's quite right. When did you last see a Watt governor on an NHS ward?

OTOH the underlying principle of cybernetic feedback is absolutely fundamental to many a bit of NHS kit. As are, for instance, the basic principles of electromagnetism, the atomic theory of chenistry, and the concept of the genetic message encapsulated in the DNA sequence. Not to mention the notion of the wotsit electronic thingy spread over the C6H5- hexagon, the germ theorh of disease, the development of modern ventilation and sanitation, and so on and so forth.

Is there a link to this 180 innovations shit? Would love to read down it and call bullshit...

Me too. I;ve seen more convincingly literate turds in the monkey house at Edinburgh Zoo.

ydoethur said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

People writing off Penny too quickly

There are three of these debates. This is merely the first

Truss is toast but beyond that.... who knows. Rishi's polish shows here, he is is Winchester and Megabank and ex-COTE

But.... Which one will beat Starmer?

It is Mordaunt v Sunak, I reckon, and the Tory members will decide, not us

The Penny problem is that rather uniquely she has been called out on the stand for lying. And its on the dog whistle non-issue of chicks with dicks. She can try and talk around it, but they will keep coming back for it.

Is it unique? Leon has just said Kemi's tooth story is "a clear lie".

We've called Badenoch out on this board.

Badenoch accused Mordaunt of lying *in the debate*

Yes, but Leon's point is likely to be picked up upon by others, esp. media AND other campaigns.

Gardenwalker said:

Poshness rating.

1, Tugendhat
2, Sunak
3, Truss
4, Badenoch
5, Mordaunt

But none are working class.

Tugendhat went to Bristol for undergrad though not Oxbridge albeit St Paul's before that and he did a postgraduate degree at Cambridge

Monksfield said:

It says it all about the current Tory party that much the best performer on the night is the runner who stands no chance at all.

Truss was hilariously bad, sadly, because I was desperate for her to win for the lolz.

I'm not sure if it was my imagination but Truss appeared to be doing some sort of impression of a Thunderbirds puppet.

I should have liked TT but following on from LPs post he was talking in a weird manner . I also found him just too cringy.

Penny looks the part although i thought she was underwhelming in tonight’s debate , I love her styling and hair which is fab and makes me think of Bond , Money Penny and she does seem calm . I think she could grow on people .

Kemi was good and I like her talking about trade offs.

Sunak looks like a safe pair of hands and won’t spend his time trying to add to the divisions in the country .

Truss is terrible in this format , very wooden and has zero charisma .

That's Truss - the continuity Johnson candidate - in last place among people who after partygate and everything else still identify as Conservatives. Not a good result
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1548040462526607363

solarflare said:

Monksfield said:

It says it all about the current Tory party that much the best performer on the night is the runner who stands no chance at all.

Truss was hilariously bad, sadly, because I was desperate for her to win for the lolz.

I'm not sure if it was my imagination but Truss appeared to be doing some sort of impression of a Thunderbirds puppet.

FAB Jeff.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Conservative voters

Tugendhat 29%
Sunak 28%
Mordaunt 15%
Badenoch 12%
Truss 10%

Mordaunt is out

But how about asking who was worst?

Penny didn't stand out so I wouldn't expect many to say she was best. But she didn't do anything to lose support.

In contrast, everyone now knows Truss is not a credible PM.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

So despite all that polling, Mordaunt underperformed with the voters she needs to win.

It was polling of all voters who watched the debate, it is Tory members she needs to win

MattW said:

Carnyx said:

MaxPB said:

OnboardG1 said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

What?

That's a completely idiotic soundbite. One of the innovations is X-ray Tomography which is the basis of CT scanning. It's demonstrably false.

Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, Coherent Light Emission, transistors...

NMR is at least an American innovation, so not in that list of 180. Though as CHB points out, the NHS uses the web and it's absolutely number one on the list.

Eh?? Georg Radda waves a very firm hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Radda

Presumably MRI Scanning was on that list?

Sir Peter Mansfield shared a Nobel Prize for that. Based at University of Nottingham. Used in the NHS.

Even if we are just talking COVID, and ignoring the most AZ vaccine, there is the innovative use of mass data from the NHS for a number of innovations, that use of mass data itself, the viral sequencing programme, the ability to do more rapid research than almost anywhere, the discovery of dexamethasone as a treatment to ease the symptoms for people on ventilators, and plenty more.

Has PM taken an innovative hallucinogen?

Quite so. I'm baffled.

I still maintain that if Truss wins, she will be ejected by MPs before she gets to a GE.

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

So despite all that polling, Mordaunt underperformed with the voters she needs to win.

It was polling of all voters, it is Tory members she needs to win

She did poorly with those too. Not as bad as Truss 10% with Tory 2019 voters

Mexicanpete said:

GIN1138 said:

Mexicanpete said:

GIN1138 said:

My scores on the doors

Tom - 7 (Pleasantly surprised)
Kemi - 7 (I knew she's be good and didn't disappoint)
Penny - 6 (Wobbled early on but got better)
Rishi - 4 (The do nothing, tax dodging Prime Minister with millions in the bank)
Liz - 1 (Absolutely woeful)

Were you watching Coronation Street?

Sunak, an 8. The remaining order is as you say, but I am deducting a point from each of them.

Rishi Rich would have been great... in 1997... 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015 and maybe even 2017... but the world has moved on from tired Tony Blair tribute acts.

And I personally find if offensive that this multi-millionaire tax dodger had absolutely nothing to offer to anyone in these times of hardship. He even seemed to be opposing the very modest reduction on fuel that the other candidates were proposing.

I can't disagree with the Sunak backstory you have explained to us, and that he is a dreadful little weasel, but on tonight's performance he was awesome compared to the company he kept.

One doesn't need to outrun the tiger, only one's running companion.

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Poshness rating.

1, Tugendhat
2, Sunak
3, Truss
4, Badenoch
5, Mordaunt

But none are working class.

Tugendhat went to Bristol for undergrad though not Oxbridge albeit St Paul's before that and he did a postgraduate degree at Cambridge

Behave!

OnboardG1 said:

From the beeb live blog: "Mordaunt - I hope you like one of us".

Well Penny...

"He said he didn't like it...but he'd have to go along with it"

FF43 said:

Leon said:

EXCELLENT final statement from Penny. She's still in the game

She should really go on her ordinariness in the next debate:

"I am not public school. I am not Oxford or Cambridge. I am not an ex banker. I am like YOU" - go for it, Penny

I thought all the final statements dire, but Sunak wins the debate because he was the only one to give a serious answer to the question about fuel bills, which is what people reasonably expect their government to have an answer to.

And I say that knowing Sunak completely screwed up the Budget earlier this year.

I’m not a natural Conservative voter. I don’t expect to vote Tory at the next GE. So, in terms of actual policies, unsurprisingly none of them were that appealing. I thought Mordaunt made a few good points, followed by Sunak, then Truss (strongly anti-Putin).

But I suspect winning elections and winning leadership campaigns is only a bit about policy and more about how people come across. If I ignore actual policies, and my distrust of this Conservative regime and indeed of these specific candidates’ past positions, then my emotional response was for Sunak. Badenoch had some strong moments, but seemed green round the ears: someone to watch for the future, not someone to take over now. Third, I’d put Mordaunt, OK in places. Then Tug, then Truss.

Things that surprised me… OK, I get what some see in Kemi. I was surprised how little Tugendhat worked for me. He began well with his strong anti-Boris message, but nothing else impressed.

I presume Tug goes out next round. This will benefit Mordaunt and Sunak. But I think there are enough votes on the right ultimately to get someone they want to the final two, Truss or Badenoch, and I don’t think Kemi has done enough, so I wonder whether the final 2 is Sunak against a wounded Truss, and Sunak wins?

Scott_xP said:

Based on what you have seen tonight, do you think each of the following would be a good / bad PM?

Tugendhat 61/31
Sunak 51/45
Mordaunt 44/49
Badenoch 41/49
Truss 29/65

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1548040513315475456/photo/1

These numbers confirm Penny did not do herself much damage tonight.

OnboardG1 said:

solarflare said:

Monksfield said:

It says it all about the current Tory party that much the best performer on the night is the runner who stands no chance at all.

Truss was hilariously bad, sadly, because I was desperate for her to win for the lolz.

I'm not sure if it was my imagination but Truss appeared to be doing some sort of impression of a Thunderbirds puppet.

FAB Jeff.

Bit of a car crash tonight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDyz2V2QxM

Hello again to all, after a long time away. Truss I'm sure won't have been helped by tonight's performance.

Badenoch and Tugendhat look to me to have solid potential for the future, and Sunak and Mordaunt to me still to be the frontrunners. Sunak has his senior governmental experience and charm to fall back on, and Mordaunt a conversational and more empathic style which will be able to come out, and to the fore again, in a longer-form interview or debate, in the following round.

GIN1138 said:

Nadine should have been the continuity Boris candidate. As least she's a laugh. Liz is just scary... She'd actually make babies cry on the campaign trail.

She's like an extra from Night Of The Living Dead....

It's the way you tell 'em!

Love this. What's the priority in a dangerous heatwave? Buying rosé wine.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/15/heatwave-britons-red-alert-fans-rose-wine-ice-cream-sales

"Heatwave-hit Britons rush to buy rosé wine, fans and ice-cream
Majestic Wine says sales of the pink wine are up 49%, as government issues red alert on heat"

Stereodog said:

My ranking for tonight based on what I think the actual selectorate will think:

1.) Rishi- He had grown up answers and the audience liked a lot of them. Did enough to keep the mainstream MPs onside

I found it was interesting that he had the audience onside when he was criticising Truss for her mad borrowing plan. The voters that Osborne appealed to during the austerity years are still out there, and they still don't like the idea of endless borrowing.

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

I do try to be nice to you, but please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I deny that Starmer is Working Class (tho actually I would say he is lower middle class: like Mordaunt - I was using shorthand)

Angela Rayner is authentic working class

I misread your post, I will apologise.

But Starmer is working class, he fits the definition based on upbringing.

Apology accepted

Thankyou

For what is is worth, I agree with the consensus on here, both are lower middle class, borderline working class

It is sad that Britain is still saddled with these near-Indian type caste definitions, but we are, for now

And if it comes to a revolution, right now I am on the side of the communards. Enough of the fucking posh boys. Enough Camerons, Johnsons and Sunaks. I want someone from the barrios in Number 10. We've had enough Etonians for a generation

If Sunak wins we won't have an Old Etonian as PM, we will have a Wykehamist instead

Just finished the debate. It has to be Sunak for me. I like Kemi, but I don’t think she’s ready.

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

I do try to be nice to you, but please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I deny that Starmer is Working Class (tho actually I would say he is lower middle class: like Mordaunt - I was using shorthand)

Angela Rayner is authentic working class

I misread your post, I will apologise.

But Starmer is working class, he fits the definition based on upbringing.

Apology accepted

Thankyou

For what is is worth, I agree with the consensus on here, both are lower middle class, borderline working class

It is sad that Britain is still saddled with these near-Indian type caste definitions, but we are, for now

And if it comes to a revolution, right now I am on the side of the communards. Enough of the fucking posh boys. Enough Camerons, Johnsons and Sunaks. I want someone from the barrios in Number 10. We've had enough Etonians for a generation

If Sunak wins we won't have an Old Etonian as PM, we will have a Wykehamist instead

How TOO TOO TERRIBLE FOR YOU.

williamglenn said:

For all his flaws, Johnson is a top tier politician in a way that none of the people on the stage today are. The Tories may regret turfing him out.

But politicians grow into a role quickly. I can see Mordaunt doing that

FFS even TMay has gained a kind of gravitas despite being the worst PM ever. Likewise Major

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

I do try to be nice to you, but please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I deny that Starmer is Working Class (tho actually I would say he is lower middle class: like Mordaunt - I was using shorthand)

Angela Rayner is authentic working class

I misread your post, I will apologise.

But Starmer is working class, he fits the definition based on upbringing.

Apology accepted

Thankyou

For what is is worth, I agree with the consensus on here, both are lower middle class, borderline working class

It is sad that Britain is still saddled with these near-Indian type caste definitions, but we are, for now

And if it comes to a revolution, right now I am on the side of the communards. Enough of the fucking posh boys. Enough Camerons, Johnsons and Sunaks. I want someone from the barrios in Number 10. We've had enough Etonians for a generation

If Sunak wins we won't have an Old Etonian as PM, we will have a Wykehamist instead

Doesn't JRM think that's the dirtiest insult on the planet?

New thread

williamglenn said:

For all his flaws, Johnson is a top tier politician in a way that none of the people on the stage today are. The Tories may regret turfing him out.

I hate this kind of reasoning. Yes, he was top tier in some ways, but he also had massive flaws which were overwhelming everything else. It was not going to end well - the very fact he got turfed out by MPs after winning so big 3 years ago demonstrates he is not as top tier as people think, either - he should never have been so vulnerable.

stjohn said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

williamglenn said:

I think Mordaunt's problem is that she isn't political enough. She's treating it like a job interview and making herself completely bland.

Penny was a bit too discursive and often avoided the actual question. She might do better in a long interview. Do we know what formats will be used for the next debates?

Or is she an empty vessel?

I don't think so. I think she's as much of an emotional and empathic communicator as anything else ; as Leon says, this is why her closing personal statement was notably the best, and probably why her solo press conferences have been the most successful with the press and tory electorate, too.

Stereodog said:

OllyT said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Conservative voters

Tugendhat 29%
Sunak 28%
Mordaunt 15%
Badenoch 12%
Truss 10%

Mordaunt is out

Interesting that Tory voters and the general public both give the top rating to the one remaining candidate that the Tory membership won't touch with a barge poll because he was not of the one true faith.

The poll asked who they thought performed best. I think Boris is a better public speaker than Ed Davey but I wouldn’t vote for him in a million years.

Usually there is still plenty of voting for the preferred candidate, some will always say their choice performed better out of loyalty.

With a contest which is all Tories, and where people may be less attached personally to the options, it may be closer to honest.

My summary:

Penny - unconvincing, vacuous
Kemi - more convincing, but still vacuous and no substance
Rishi - fluent and won, but creepy and untrustworthy
Liz - bad, mad, and sad
Tom - hello, centrist dad.

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

I do try to be nice to you, but please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I deny that Starmer is Working Class (tho actually I would say he is lower middle class: like Mordaunt - I was using shorthand)

Angela Rayner is authentic working class

I misread your post, I will apologise.

But Starmer is working class, he fits the definition based on upbringing.

Apology accepted

Thankyou

For what is is worth, I agree with the consensus on here, both are lower middle class, borderline working class

It is sad that Britain is still saddled with these near-Indian type caste definitions, but we are, for now

And if it comes to a revolution, right now I am on the side of the communards. Enough of the fucking posh boys. Enough Camerons, Johnsons and Sunaks. I want someone from the barrios in Number 10. We've had enough Etonians for a generation

Starmer is a lawyer. Middle Class.
But I accept that Horse was talking about his upbringing.
But my understanding was that Starmer's father owned a small toolmaking firm. That strikes me as a middle class ba0

Cookie said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

I do try to be nice to you, but please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I deny that Starmer is Working Class (tho actually I would say he is lower middle class: like Mordaunt - I was using shorthand)

Angela Rayner is authentic working class

I misread your post, I will apologise.

But Starmer is working class, he fits the definition based on upbringing.

Apology accepted

Thankyou

For what is is worth, I agree with the consensus on here, both are lower middle class, borderline working class

It is sad that Britain is still saddled with these near-Indian type caste definitions, but we are, for now

And if it comes to a revolution, right now I am on the side of the communards. Enough of the fucking posh boys. Enough Camerons, Johnsons and Sunaks. I want someone from the barrios in Number 10. We've had enough Etonians for a generation

Starmer is a lawyer. Middle Class.
But I accept that Horse was talking about his upbringing.
But my understanding was that Starmer's father owned a small toolmaking firm. That strikes me as a middle class ba0

...ckground? Though granted I do not know the finer details. And it doesn't matter hugely.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Leon said:

Mexicanpete said:

Leon said:

God, Boris was better than this bunch

*help*

On the other hand, Starmer is worse than several of them

*yay*

No and not really, just the one.

Starmer is fairly shit. Sorry. But he is, and let us not forget this. He only got the job because so many more talented players fled the field during the Corbyn Terror

Starmer would be worried by the working class female Mordaunt, he might struggle against BME woman Badenoch, or not (because she is such a wildcard). He would be certainly equalled by Sunak (and probably outfoxed on financial matters)

He'd only be truly confident against Tugendhat (posh white inexperienced soldier, easy easy) or the ridiculous Truss

Keir Starmer is working class, why are you so dishonest?

Starmer is clearly middle class. Do you mean he had a working class upbringing?

My brother…

“Kemi nervous and not ready. Only has one policy”
“Tug annoys with his constant military references. But could be PM I suppose”.