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So now it is down to 8 – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333
    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    My children (12 and 14) find Blackadder II and Fawlty Towers to be very funny. (My 12 year son's favourite movie is The Life of Brian.)

    But they would find The Good Life or Ever Decreasing Circles or From the Manor Born utterly tedious.
    Last of the Summer Wine seemed to be extremely popular for decades for reasons I couldn't quite fathom.
    It was/is slow and gentle. Which becomes very appealing sometimes.

    The lack of pace is what strikes me about old TV comedy. In something like Not Going Out, you are never more than about four seconds from a laugh line. In The Good Life, there are acres of screentime where nothing funny happens. Or The Two Ronnies. Hilarious moments, but the bits between really drag.

    (I've seen the suggestion that that's why Jeeves and Wooster still works. The voice of Bertie is amusing enough that even the dull routine business can be made funny.)

    Back to It 'Aint Half Hot Mum, some of the gags aren't as funny now as they seemed at the time. And that is a bit of a negative mark. Compare the evolution of Klinger in M*A*S*H and the lack thereof of Gloria in IAHHM.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Sure. But I just don’t see a mechanism that pushes Russia out of Donbas etc

    And if Putin falls - unlikely at the moment - he will probably be replaced by another Russian nationalist. Not a westernised liberal happy to cede territory
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239

    ping said:

    I’ve cashed out the other half of my Badenoch bet. I may come to regret it, but right now I don’t think there’s any value at all in her current odds.

    I've laid her down so she's equal to Penny.

    I bought her cheaply so I'm not going to kill my whole position for the sake of £30 quid extra, particularly since I don't know what will happen next.
    If you knew what will happen next, it would be easier, for sure.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds trivial but maybe it isn't.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/why-does-penny-mordaunt-hate-dads-army/

    "Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army?
    This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"

    I pointed this out the other day.

    That's a good article.
    I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.

    * Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
    The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.

    And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.

    I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."

    To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
    I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.

    Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/penny-mordaunt-interview-gender-recognition-act/comments/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    Less than a week ago (7 July) Badenoch was 131 to be next PM.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    Andy_JS said:

    Dan Hodges may be onto something here. I won't post the whole thread.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1546953684214497284

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    In a contest in which honesty and integrity are so pivotal, I don't see how Penny M's attempt to rewrite her position on this in such a nakedly opportunistic way is survivable."

    Gender Critical Feminists are unpersuaded too:

    https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1546975857453010945
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,707
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.

    But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:

    "We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    On immortal comedy. This line from Wodehouse

    “I was left in no doubt about the severity of the hangover when a cat stamped into the room.”

    … Can make me chuckle every time I read it. Written in 1940

    The idea of a cat “stamping” is amusingly surreal in itself, but even better if it is an illusion in the brain of a man with a killer hangover. We’ve all been there

    And there is more humour in the slightly stiff way he writes this, like a policeman reading his notes in court, in a nasal voice, which adds another layer

    Absolute genius
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,746
    Outnumbered
    Jeeves and Worcester
    Yes (Prime) Minister
    Red dwarf

    All favourites of mine.

    From the USA, Friends and the Simpsons (Earlier stuff) we've had on in the background with the little one endlessly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,223
    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.

    But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:

    "We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
    That's quite an incredible quote.

    I wonder if this is a case of "follow the money..." ;)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044

    Andy_JS said:

    Dan Hodges may be onto something here. I won't post the whole thread.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1546953684214497284

    "(((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    In a contest in which honesty and integrity are so pivotal, I don't see how Penny M's attempt to rewrite her position on this in such a nakedly opportunistic way is survivable."

    Gender Critical Feminists are unpersuaded too:

    https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1546975857453010945
    As funnily enough is Benjamin Cohen / Pink News:

    https://twitter.com/benjamincohen/status/1546943095916433408
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,707
    I think Cummings likes to think of himself as a hyper-realist, but seems to be making the well known error of justifying Russias conduct of the war in Ukraine by making reference to the long term causes of it, IE legitimate grievances Russia may have over Western foreign policy in the 00's.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333
    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.

    But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:

    "We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."

    The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing

    All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,223
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.

    IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.

    I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.

    (*) I wasn't around...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Sure. But I just don’t see a mechanism that pushes Russia out of Donbas etc

    And if Putin falls - unlikely at the moment - he will probably be replaced by another Russian nationalist. Not a westernised liberal happy to cede territory
    Russia has chewed through an enormous chunk of its army. Its lost the majority of its frontline (working) tanks.

    Attackers always have it harder than defenders. How can Russia replace its tank losses? Or its artillery losses? At least the Ukrainians are getting resupplied by the West, and with increasingly effective kit.

    Any new Russian leader's first priority will be stopping the bleeding. Russia doesn't have an unlimited supply of men and materiel to throw into Ukraine. Sanctions plus war losses are not a good combination.

    Now: will the Russians get something? Yes, I suspect that Zelensky will have to accept that Crimea is no longer Ukrainian. But I think that's about it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961
    edited July 13
    Good morning everyone! Isn't it nice to be talking about comedy shows rather than verbally kicking bits out of each other!

    As an adolescent I loved the Goon Show; now it leaves me cold. I could take or leave "It ain't half hot Mum" but I loved I like early "Last of the summer wine". Like many of the others it outstayed its welcome, though! You can't go on with these things forever!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds trivial but maybe it isn't.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/why-does-penny-mordaunt-hate-dads-army/

    "Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army?
    This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"

    I pointed this out the other day.

    That's a good article.
    I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.

    * Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
    The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.

    And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.

    I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."

    To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
    She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/penny-mordaunt-interview-gender-recognition-act/comments/
    If that was the case she wouldn’t be attempting to re-write history and deleting inaccurate tweets about her record.

    No harm in saying “Having thought further on this issue my views have evolved and I now recognise the need to protect the rights of women and girls as well as Trans-people’s, which I may have overlooked before” - but that’s not what she’s doing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044
    No Absolutely Fabulous fans? The first episode may be just shy of 30 years ago, but I think it’s aged very well. “I’m chanting as we speak”
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,347
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds trivial but maybe it isn't.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/why-does-penny-mordaunt-hate-dads-army/

    "Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army?
    This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"

    I pointed this out the other day.

    That's a good article.
    I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.

    * Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
    The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.

    And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.

    I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."

    To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
    She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/penny-mordaunt-interview-gender-recognition-act/comments/
    If that was the case she wouldn’t be attempting to re-write history and deleting inaccurate tweets about her record.

    No harm in saying “Having thought further on this issue my views have evolved and I now recognise the need to protect the rights of women and girls as well as Trans-people’s, which I may have overlooked before” - but that’s not what she’s doing.
    You are quite right Ms Vance. I cringe when I think of some of the actions I took and some of the things I remember saying back in the 60s or 70s! I certainly wouldn't say anything like that nowadays!
    Nor do I believe what I appear to have believed then!
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,707
    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.

    But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:

    "We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."

    The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
    I think it is more a point that there is no evidence that Cummings has done what may be regarded as a 'real job' in his life. A failing common amongst politicians. There is a vague report that he supposedly tried to set up an airline in Russia but it never flew anywhere. He seems to be just one of these people that exist on the fringes of politics/journalism, and is apparently backed by significant family wealth. He has some good ideas and observations, but I am not convinced he has any understanding or appreciation of how to run anything. I think he has probably driven himself mad by too much thinking.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,489
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I like Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I still think the British equivalent - Lead Balloon - is better.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,304
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Most people in Austria speak German, that doesn't mean that parts of Austria should belong to Germany.

    Most people in southern Belgium speak french, that doesn't mean France has a claim to southern Belgium.

    Most people in northern Belgium speak Dutch, that doesn't mean the Netherlands has a claim to northern Belgium.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
    Yes, but at root the Irish were celts and the English were saxons. You can’t really apply the same consideration to Ukraine and Russia, where the difference principally arises from the long experience of being part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire for the former, not the latter.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,793
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing

    All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
    Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson reaches me in a way I can't quite put my finger on. Potentially my favourite sketch. Something utterly English about it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
    Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 602
    1970's classic - Rising Damp ...

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.

    IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.

    I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.

    (*) I wasn't around...
    The Goodies has glorious moments- the "my biblical epic"/"my Western"/"my black and white comedy" is great. But a lot of their comedy came from visual effects that were brilliant at the time, but are just quaint now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,943

    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.

    Constable Savage is eternally brilliant.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 602
    Modern Comedy Classic - Conservative Home.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.

    Yes good one

    “The search goes on for the ayatollah’s contact lens”

    Wouldn’t be allowed now, natch
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,747
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
    Yes, but at root the Irish were celts and the English were saxons. You can’t really apply the same consideration to Ukraine and Russia, where the difference principally arises from the long experience of being part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire for the former, not the latter.
    The Ukrainians would tell you there is an ethnic difference. They are Rus, the Muscovites descended from various Finns, Mongols, Tatars etc.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,666
    If you want proof that levelling up is dead apart from words - these school rebuilds are supposedly "levelling up". I'm sorry but this isn't levelling up its just rebuilding schools which are well past end of life...

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20273937.durham-newcastle-sunderland-schools-government-list-rebuild/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
    Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
    What? An unjustifiable attack, and military catastrophe?

    Surely he didn't mean that.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,362
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
    I loved Parks and Rec, ads you might guess. But I loved it for its humour alone. It doesn't feel part of my culture in the way that, say, Porridge or the Royle Family does.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,943
    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.

    Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
    Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.

    But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:

    "We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."

    The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
    I think it is more a point that there is no evidence that Cummings has done what may be regarded as a 'real job' in his life. A failing common amongst politicians. There is a vague report that he supposedly tried to set up an airline in Russia but it never flew anywhere. He seems to be just one of these people that exist on the fringes of politics/journalism, and is apparently backed by significant family wealth. He has some good ideas and observations, but I am not convinced he has any understanding or appreciation of how to run anything. I think he has probably driven himself mad by too much thinking.
    Perhaps more to the point - he thinks that articulating the “other” point of view is the epitome of brilliant thinking.

    When much of the time it just means being an edgelord.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,116
    JACK_W said:

    Modern Comedy Classic - Conservative Home.

    Also known as The Not Very Goodies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239
    edited July 13
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
    The difference is that most US coms play for the gag or clever one-liner, whereas the British ones work on extracting humour from the situation. But there is crossover - Atkinson in Blackadder has a lot of one-liners whereas a US series like Weeds relied almost entirely on the situations.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341

    Good morning everyone! Isn't it nice to be talking about comedy shows rather than verbally kicking bits out of each other!

    As an adolescent I loved the Goon Show; now it leaves me cold. I could take or leave "It ain't half hot Mum" but I loved I like early "Last of the summer wine". Like many of the others it outstayed its welcome, though! You can't go on with these things forever!

    Dad's Army on TV was of its time with a superb ensemble. They put together a fine cast for the movie in 2016 - but it bombed.

    Some things should be left alone.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,666

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
    The problem with US sitcoms is that they are drawn out by the need to have 20+ episodes a year rather than 6 plus shows continue while they have an audience but in the UK creators are happy to kill their show off in it's prime. See the US v UK versions of the Office or even Ghosts.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    Mr. Malmesbury, walking around with an offensive wife is a very serious crime.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,362
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    carnforth said:

    Was going to post about the Rise & Fall of Reginald Perrin, but am pre-empted by Wikipedia informing me that Leonard Rossiter had a five year extramarital affair with Radio 4’s Sue McGregor in the early 80s. Didn’t think he had it in him. Or her. Good Lord.

    This is quite a good starting point for constructing your own list, though it only goes up to 2004 (so omits the IT crowd).
    https://mubi.com/lists/britain-s-best-sitcom-the-bbc-s-top-100
    Only major omission I can see from that list is Chance in a Million.

    Though I think it is considering 'The Likely Lads' and 'Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads' as one sitcom; it should really be two. WHTTLL is a classic and a fascinating glance of the social changes of 70s Britain.

    I was very pleased to see I Didn't Know You Cared on there - also a fascinating glance at etc etc.
    As it doesn't contain either Auf Wiedersein Pet or A Very Peculiar Practice, it is (to say the least) incomplete.

    And why is the Vicar of Dibley so high up? That should be waaaaaaaaayyyy down the list.
    I'm not that fond of VoD either.
    AVP and AVPP both passed me by at the time. But I think you're right.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
    I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec

    Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?

    Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.

    Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.

    And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 3,367
    So today then.

    I think Zahawi and Braverman out. Suspect Hunt will squeeze through. Kemi I think is 50:50 (she is too short right now).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,536
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    That's a good assessment, to be fair.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 130
    Most comedy dates and is largely unwatchable later on repeats. Few exceptions are Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Yes Minister...
    But my favourite which I am currently watching again is Two & a Half Men.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
    Maybe you're right, though I'm not sure it was initially billed as only British sitcoms

    Frasier is a great US sitcom- though the protaganists are europhiles, the comedy is a lot about snobbery (a common theme in British sitcoms), and has Daphne!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333

    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.

    Constable Savage is eternally brilliant.
    And completely called out the fact that a lot of policing at the time was overtly racist.

    Comedy holds a mirror up to society, sometimes to make us laugh at ourselves, and sometimes to think "we shouldn't really tolerate this situation".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,044

    JACK_W said:

    Modern Comedy Classic - Conservative Home.

    Also known as The Not Very Goodies.
    Or Absolutely Fatuous
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
    I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec

    Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?

    Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
    Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 3,367
    It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    Zelensky slams Trudeau's Canada for giving Russia an exemption on sanctions
    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1546637939475681281?s=20&t=Qg05KdnHdytWhlx4q9g2Gw
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 9,641
    rcs1000 said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.

    Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.

    And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
    Succession is very funny. But it is written by a Brit.
    Curb, Seinfeld, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec are all brilliant. Friends is very well done although I like it less. And the Americans have nailed satirical TV shows better than we have, I used to be addicted to the Daily Show and (especially) the Colbert Report when we lived over there.
    British comedy has become too safe. It's hard to imagine something like Brass Eye getting made now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,536
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds trivial but maybe it isn't.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/why-does-penny-mordaunt-hate-dads-army/

    "Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army?
    This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"

    I pointed this out the other day.

    That's a good article.
    I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.

    * Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
    The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.

    And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.

    I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."

    To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
    I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.

    Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/penny-mordaunt-interview-gender-recognition-act/comments/
    It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.

    We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.

    My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602
    Penddu2 said:

    Most comedy dates and is largely unwatchable later on repeats. Few exceptions are Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Yes Minister...
    But my favourite which I am currently watching again is Two & a Half Men.

    Black Books is timeless! Probably the combination of Dylan Moran and Bill Bailey
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    edited July 13

    It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.

    At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,536
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing

    All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
    Some of that Meaning of Life stuff is deeply odd.

    That elephant dream? WTF?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,323

    So today then.

    I think Zahawi and Braverman out. Suspect Hunt will squeeze through. Kemi I think is 50:50 (she is too short right now).

    That would be a good day's work to be sure. It's troubling either Zahawi or Braverman made the cut when the Saj didn't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    That's a good assessment, to be fair.
    Yet some comedy transcends this age-limit entirely

    I’ve mentioned Wodehouse but I’ll put in a word for Byron’s Beppo. Still genuinely funny. 200 years old!

    It’s like finding a wine you can still drink after 2 centuries

    Movie wise, Airplane and Life of Brian have endured 40-50 years and remain funny, so they too might be around for centuries

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,943
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately.
    Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.

    He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist

    He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea

    This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system


    I think Cummings is wrong.

    Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
    This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian

    I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
    Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.

    Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
    Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
    What? An unjustifiable attack, and military catastrophe?

    Surely he didn't mean that.
    To a Greater X Nationalist, Greater Y Nationalism is the only rational policy.

    So to a Greater Russian Nationalist, Greater U.K. Nationalism is the only sane policy for the U.K.

    This then causes the problem that the people and government of Y are, of course, secretly plotting their Greater Y Nationalism and that of their allies.

    So we *must* be plotting Greater Ukrainian Nationalism. Which means the dismemberment of Russian…..
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,400
    I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.

    That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,122

    Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.

    What we don't know about her is her strength among MPs. She has 19 endorsements, which puts her in fifth position, behind Sunak (47!), Morduant (29), Truss (22) and TT (20).

    It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,911

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.

    IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.

    I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.

    (*) I wasn't around...
    The Goodies has glorious moments- the "my biblical epic"/"my Western"/"my black and white comedy" is great. But a lot of their comedy came from visual effects that were brilliant at the time, but are just quaint now.
    Oh yes, the kitten knocking over the Post Office Tower.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 401

    So today then.

    I think Zahawi and Braverman out. Suspect Hunt will squeeze through. Kemi I think is 50:50 (she is too short right now).

    I hope at least a couple get knocked out so we're down to the final 4/5 over the weekend for the debates.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 25,993

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing

    All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
    Some of that Meaning of Life stuff is deeply odd.

    That elephant dream? WTF?
    It is. But this is a Python theme. There’s a bizarre “aliens in UFOs” sequence in Brian
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    Mr. 1000, yeah. I think if she can make it through two rounds, perhaps a big ask, she might become the favourite.

    The most interesting character in terms of variability of results, and young enough to have a crack next time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,536

    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.

    That was brilliant and is *still* funny now, despite it all being set in about 1981.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    kjh said:

    I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.

    That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.

    So if we get PM Braverman or PM Truss with Mogg as Chancellor and Dorries as Foreign Secretary you might perk up a bit
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 3,367
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.

    What we don't know about her is her strength among MPs. She has 19 endorsements, which puts her in fifth position, behind Sunak (47!), Morduant (29), Truss (22) and TT (20).

    It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.

    Yes and whereas a longer contest would have given her the chance of building momentum and a head of steam (which I think she is quite capable of generating), the timetable for this contest is so short she doesn’t get much chance to do that.

    She could surprise us and poll anywhere up to 50 votes IMHO but I suspect she will be hovering around the 30 mark and therefore at risk.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sounds trivial but maybe it isn't.

    https://unherd.com/thepost/why-does-penny-mordaunt-hate-dads-army/

    "Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army?
    This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"

    I pointed this out the other day.

    That's a good article.
    I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.

    * Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
    The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.

    And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.

    I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."

    To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
    I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.

    Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/penny-mordaunt-interview-gender-recognition-act/comments/
    It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.

    We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.

    My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
    She has said herself that having a gay twin coming out in the eighties gave her a lot of insight into the problems that Trans people have in gaining acceptance.

    I think her views are fairly mainstream on LGBT issues, hence the annoyance to the radical fringes on both sides. She recognises that Biological sex is real, but also that Trans people can legally be recognised as their chosen gender, and should be treated with compassion and not marginalised. Trying to square that circle and have appropriate protections for all does require addressing a lot of edge situations.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,961
    CD13 said:

    I suspect choosing your favourite sit-coms is like choosing politicians. It's sometimes difficult to explain why.

    Faviurite comedy film? Life of Brian because some of the lines became classics. "What did the Romans ever do for us?", "It's only a flesh wound." and the prescient ...

    Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta.
    Reg: What!?
    Stan: It's my right as a man.
    Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
    Stan: I want to have babies.
    Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?!
    Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
    Reg: But you can't have babies.
    Stan: Don't you oppress me.
    Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the
    fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
    (Stan starts crying.)
    Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually
    have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the
    Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies"

    Not bad for the 1970s.

    Also, the caravan scene in 'The Likely lads," where Terry is taking a pee on the outside of the caravan. Bob and the two wives complete the Bridge quartet and are listening in embarrassment. "Well, that's the first time tonight, I know what's in his hand," says one of women.

    Also of that era.

    The Likely Lads was hilarious but I didn't think the sequel 'Whatever happened to them' was as good.

    Underlines the fact that these things can only last for so long.

    I used to say that three years at what is now Sunderland University enabled me to understand 'Auf Weidersehn, Pet' without subtitles. It was very entertaining though!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 54,002
    HYUFD said:

    It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.

    At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
    Good morning

    This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss

    However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,344
    Dr. Foxy, "She recognises that Biological sex is real..."

    Alarming that even needs to be said. "Adult acknowledges genes exist."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Leon said:

    Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2

    Community gets better until they start losing cast members.

    Also the antithesis of the one liner cheap gag. There is an entire story line that develops in secret over the first couple of seasons and then is revealed in a single throwaway line in one episode
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 54,002
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.

    That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.

    So if we get PM Braverman or PM Truss with Mogg as Chancellor and Dorries as Foreign Secretary you might perk up a bit
    Barking
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,738
    edited July 13

    HYUFD said:

    It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.

    At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
    Good morning

    This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss

    However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
    If that were the final 2 then on the ConHome survey yesterday Sunak would lose to Mordaunt or Truss.

    Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress, maybe even starting with the first ballot. Tugendhat should also pick up some Hunt backers

  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602
    tlg86 said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I like Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I still think the British equivalent - Lead Balloon - is better.
    I agree with that - I enjoyed Lead Balloon a lot more, CYE I gave up after 3 seasons. Of course the protagonist of Lead Balloon is a bit different in that he isn't very successful. I have a theory that British programs are more willing to allow us to identify with "losers".

    "I like to do self-deprecating humour, but I'm not very good at it"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,943
    Foxy said:

    I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.

    Constable Savage is eternally brilliant.
    And completely called out the fact that a lot of policing at the time was overtly racist.

    Comedy holds a mirror up to society, sometimes to make us laugh at ourselves, and sometimes to think "we shouldn't really tolerate this situation".
    I thought the point of the sketch was that while the police claimed overtly to be non-racist or anti-racist, that the reality was covert or subconscious racism.

    Which is why I imagine that Constable Savage is alive, well and has passed all his online multiple choice diversity exams. And now arrests black people for ordering their coffee…. Black.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,333
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    That's a good assessment, to be fair.
    Yet some comedy transcends this age-limit entirely

    I’ve mentioned Wodehouse but I’ll put in a word for Byron’s Beppo. Still genuinely funny. 200 years old!

    It’s like finding a wine you can still drink after 2 centuries

    Movie wise, Airplane and Life of Brian have endured 40-50 years and remain funny, so they too might be around for centuries

    Gullivers Travels (particularly the chapters after Liliput) are genuinely hilarious.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831

    rcs1000 said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.

    Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.

    And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
    Succession is very funny. But it is written by a Brit.
    Curb, Seinfeld, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec are all brilliant. Friends is very well done although I like it less. And the Americans have nailed satirical TV shows better than we have, I used to be addicted to the Daily Show and (especially) the Colbert Report when we lived over there.
    British comedy has become too safe. It's hard to imagine something like Brass Eye getting made now.
    If you think British Comedy has become too safe you should definitely watch Man Down with Greg Davies. Its fantastic.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 54,002
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.

    At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
    Good morning

    This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss

    However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
    If that were the final 2 then on the ConHome survey yesterday Sunak would lose to Mordaunt or Truss.

    Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress.

    You have this real problem of when you are called out on fake news you try to deflect

    You should admit by your own definition ( not mine) Tugendhat leadership is effectively over
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,239
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep

    Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers

    All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.

    So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
    The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date

    It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow

    And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too

    It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
    I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
    Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?

    Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
    I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
    I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec

    Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?

    Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
    Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2
    They changed the premise in season two and it rescued the show
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,054
    Nigelb said:

    Large dump in Luhansk goes up.
    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1546991699246858242

    First time Ukraine has hit anything there, I think.

    Ahhh. Another morning, another massive Russian ammo dump on fire. Life is good.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,831

    Kind of think that if the growth figure had been 0 or negative there would be more comment on here.
    Bunch of doomsayers the lot of you. :D

    Scott would have been all over it
This discussion has been closed.