Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
“I was left in no doubt about the severity of the hangover when a cat stamped into the room.”
… Can make me chuckle every time I read it. Written in 1940
The idea of a cat “stamping” is amusingly surreal in itself, but even better if it is an illusion in the brain of a man with a killer hangover. We’ve all been there
And there is more humour in the slightly stiff way he writes this, like a policeman reading his notes in court, in a nasal voice, which adds another layer
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
That's quite an incredible quote.
I wonder if this is a case of "follow the money..."
"(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges In a contest in which honesty and integrity are so pivotal, I don't see how Penny M's attempt to rewrite her position on this in such a nakedly opportunistic way is survivable."
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
I think Cummings likes to think of himself as a hyper-realist, but seems to be making the well known error of justifying Russias conduct of the war in Ukraine by making reference to the long term causes of it, IE legitimate grievances Russia may have over Western foreign policy in the 00's.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing
All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.
IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.
I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Sure. But I just don’t see a mechanism that pushes Russia out of Donbas etc
And if Putin falls - unlikely at the moment - he will probably be replaced by another Russian nationalist. Not a westernised liberal happy to cede territory
Russia has chewed through an enormous chunk of its army. Its lost the majority of its frontline (working) tanks.
Attackers always have it harder than defenders. How can Russia replace its tank losses? Or its artillery losses? At least the Ukrainians are getting resupplied by the West, and with increasingly effective kit.
Any new Russian leader's first priority will be stopping the bleeding. Russia doesn't have an unlimited supply of men and materiel to throw into Ukraine. Sanctions plus war losses are not a good combination.
Now: will the Russians get something? Yes, I suspect that Zelensky will have to accept that Crimea is no longer Ukrainian. But I think that's about it.
Good morning everyone! Isn't it nice to be talking about comedy shows rather than verbally kicking bits out of each other!
As an adolescent I loved the Goon Show; now it leaves me cold. I could take or leave "It ain't half hot Mum" but I loved I like early "Last of the summer wine". Like many of the others it outstayed its welcome, though! You can't go on with these things forever!
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
If that was the case she wouldn’t be attempting to re-write history and deleting inaccurate tweets about her record.
No harm in saying “Having thought further on this issue my views have evolved and I now recognise the need to protect the rights of women and girls as well as Trans-people’s, which I may have overlooked before” - but that’s not what she’s doing.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
If that was the case she wouldn’t be attempting to re-write history and deleting inaccurate tweets about her record.
No harm in saying “Having thought further on this issue my views have evolved and I now recognise the need to protect the rights of women and girls as well as Trans-people’s, which I may have overlooked before” - but that’s not what she’s doing.
You are quite right Ms Vance. I cringe when I think of some of the actions I took and some of the things I remember saying back in the 60s or 70s! I certainly wouldn't say anything like that nowadays! Nor do I believe what I appear to have believed then!
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
I think it is more a point that there is no evidence that Cummings has done what may be regarded as a 'real job' in his life. A failing common amongst politicians. There is a vague report that he supposedly tried to set up an airline in Russia but it never flew anywhere. He seems to be just one of these people that exist on the fringes of politics/journalism, and is apparently backed by significant family wealth. He has some good ideas and observations, but I am not convinced he has any understanding or appreciation of how to run anything. I think he has probably driven himself mad by too much thinking.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I like Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I still think the British equivalent - Lead Balloon - is better.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Most people in Austria speak German, that doesn't mean that parts of Austria should belong to Germany.
Most people in southern Belgium speak french, that doesn't mean France has a claim to southern Belgium.
Most people in northern Belgium speak Dutch, that doesn't mean the Netherlands has a claim to northern Belgium.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
Yes, but at root the Irish were celts and the English were saxons. You can’t really apply the same consideration to Ukraine and Russia, where the difference principally arises from the long experience of being part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire for the former, not the latter.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing
All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson reaches me in a way I can't quite put my finger on. Potentially my favourite sketch. Something utterly English about it.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.
IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.
I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.
(*) I wasn't around...
The Goodies has glorious moments- the "my biblical epic"/"my Western"/"my black and white comedy" is great. But a lot of their comedy came from visual effects that were brilliant at the time, but are just quaint now.
UK economy grew by surprisingly vibrant 0.5% in May, confounding the consensus (economists expected 0%).
Services sector drove growth, principally a large rise (15%) in GP appointments in England - which isn’t something you’d try to hang our future prosperity on.
ONS adjusted……for the impact of the extra working day in May due to Jubilee.
All main sectors grew. Road hauliers were busy and travel agents swamped by pent up demand for summer holidays. Output in consumer-facing services fell but not really a snapshot of an economy heading for recession.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
Yes, but at root the Irish were celts and the English were saxons. You can’t really apply the same consideration to Ukraine and Russia, where the difference principally arises from the long experience of being part of the Polish-Lithuanian empire for the former, not the latter.
The Ukrainians would tell you there is an ethnic difference. They are Rus, the Muscovites descended from various Finns, Mongols, Tatars etc.
If you want proof that levelling up is dead apart from words - these school rebuilds are supposedly "levelling up". I'm sorry but this isn't levelling up its just rebuilding schools which are well past end of life...
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
What? An unjustifiable attack, and military catastrophe?
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
I loved Parks and Rec, ads you might guess. But I loved it for its humour alone. It doesn't feel part of my culture in the way that, say, Porridge or the Royle Family does.
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Even the ones who speak Russian now hate the Russians.
Don't forget that Zelensky is a native Russian speaker.
Boris's biggest mistake was getting rid of Cummings. Not because Cummings was as smart as he believes himself to be, but because Dom Cummings was the only person in Government with some kind of plan - better to have some kind of plan, than no plan.
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
The mystery of his 3 years in Russia have never adequately been explained. I am surprised he got security clearance to work at the heart of government.
I think it is more a point that there is no evidence that Cummings has done what may be regarded as a 'real job' in his life. A failing common amongst politicians. There is a vague report that he supposedly tried to set up an airline in Russia but it never flew anywhere. He seems to be just one of these people that exist on the fringes of politics/journalism, and is apparently backed by significant family wealth. He has some good ideas and observations, but I am not convinced he has any understanding or appreciation of how to run anything. I think he has probably driven himself mad by too much thinking.
Perhaps more to the point - he thinks that articulating the “other” point of view is the epitome of brilliant thinking.
When much of the time it just means being an edgelord.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
The difference is that most US coms play for the gag or clever one-liner, whereas the British ones work on extracting humour from the situation. But there is crossover - Atkinson in Blackadder has a lot of one-liners whereas a US series like Weeds relied almost entirely on the situations.
Good morning everyone! Isn't it nice to be talking about comedy shows rather than verbally kicking bits out of each other!
As an adolescent I loved the Goon Show; now it leaves me cold. I could take or leave "It ain't half hot Mum" but I loved I like early "Last of the summer wine". Like many of the others it outstayed its welcome, though! You can't go on with these things forever!
Dad's Army on TV was of its time with a superb ensemble. They put together a fine cast for the movie in 2016 - but it bombed.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
The problem with US sitcoms is that they are drawn out by the need to have 20+ episodes a year rather than 6 plus shows continue while they have an audience but in the UK creators are happy to kill their show off in it's prime. See the US v UK versions of the Office or even Ghosts.
Was going to post about the Rise & Fall of Reginald Perrin, but am pre-empted by Wikipedia informing me that Leonard Rossiter had a five year extramarital affair with Radio 4’s Sue McGregor in the early 80s. Didn’t think he had it in him. Or her. Good Lord.
This is quite a good starting point for constructing your own list, though it only goes up to 2004 (so omits the IT crowd). https://mubi.com/lists/britain-s-best-sitcom-the-bbc-s-top-100 Only major omission I can see from that list is Chance in a Million.
Though I think it is considering 'The Likely Lads' and 'Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads' as one sitcom; it should really be two. WHTTLL is a classic and a fascinating glance of the social changes of 70s Britain.
I was very pleased to see I Didn't Know You Cared on there - also a fascinating glance at etc etc.
As it doesn't contain either Auf Wiedersein Pet or A Very Peculiar Practice, it is (to say the least) incomplete.
And why is the Vicar of Dibley so high up? That should be waaaaaaaaayyyy down the list.
I'm not that fond of VoD either. AVP and AVPP both passed me by at the time. But I think you're right.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.
Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.
And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
Most comedy dates and is largely unwatchable later on repeats. Few exceptions are Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Yes Minister... But my favourite which I am currently watching again is Two & a Half Men.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
Frasier is in my top 10, and probably top 5. Perhaps us sitcoms haven’t been mentioned because the subject was British sitcoms?
Maybe you're right, though I'm not sure it was initially billed as only British sitcoms
Frasier is a great US sitcom- though the protaganists are europhiles, the comedy is a lot about snobbery (a common theme in British sitcoms), and has Daphne!
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec
Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?
Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.
Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.
And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
Succession is very funny. But it is written by a Brit. Curb, Seinfeld, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec are all brilliant. Friends is very well done although I like it less. And the Americans have nailed satirical TV shows better than we have, I used to be addicted to the Daily Show and (especially) the Colbert Report when we lived over there. British comedy has become too safe. It's hard to imagine something like Brass Eye getting made now.
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.
Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.
We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.
My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
Most comedy dates and is largely unwatchable later on repeats. Few exceptions are Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Yes Minister... But my favourite which I am currently watching again is Two & a Half Men.
Black Books is timeless! Probably the combination of Dylan Moran and Bill Bailey
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing
All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
I suspect choosing your favourite sit-coms is like choosing politicians. It's sometimes difficult to explain why.
Faviurite comedy film? Life of Brian because some of the lines became classics. "What did the Romans ever do for us?", "It's only a flesh wound." and the prescient ...
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta. Reg: What!? Stan: It's my right as a man. Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan? Stan: I want to have babies. Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?! Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them. Reg: But you can't have babies. Stan: Don't you oppress me. Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box? (Stan starts crying.) Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies"
Not bad for the 1970s.
Also, the caravan scene in 'The Likely lads," where Terry is taking a pee on the outside of the caravan. Bob and the two wives complete the Bridge quartet and are listening in embarrassment. "Well, that's the first time tonight, I know what's in his hand," says one of women.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
That's a good assessment, to be fair.
Yet some comedy transcends this age-limit entirely
I’ve mentioned Wodehouse but I’ll put in a word for Byron’s Beppo. Still genuinely funny. 200 years old!
It’s like finding a wine you can still drink after 2 centuries
Movie wise, Airplane and Life of Brian have endured 40-50 years and remain funny, so they too might be around for centuries
Cummings has made some weird pro Russia comments lately. Perhaps the Ukrainians are right to be worried about Boris Johnson being forced out.
He likes to see himself as a hyper-realist
He’s saying the Ukrainian war cannot be “won”. And let’s face it he’s right, if we define “winning” as pushing Russia back to the pre-war borders - let alone retaking Crimea
This does not mean we appease Putin tho. Is he saying that? If he is, he’s wrong. The only choice - and it’s a grim choice - is to do what we’re doing. Grind Russia down. Limit its ambitions. Cut it out of the system
I think Cummings is wrong.
Military adventures - like the Russians in Afghanistan - quite often lead to regime change.
This isn’t quite Afghanistan tho. Ukraine was “part” of Russia for centuries and many speak Russian
I expect Russia to squat on the eastern bits for a long time
Much the same could be said of Ireland. Ruled by England from about the same time, and mostly English speaking.
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
Lavrov of course said the Russian invasion of Ukraine was merely no different from what a UK invasion of the Republic of Ireland would be
What? An unjustifiable attack, and military catastrophe?
Surely he didn't mean that.
To a Greater X Nationalist, Greater Y Nationalism is the only rational policy.
So to a Greater Russian Nationalist, Greater U.K. Nationalism is the only sane policy for the U.K.
This then causes the problem that the people and government of Y are, of course, secretly plotting their Greater Y Nationalism and that of their allies.
So we *must* be plotting Greater Ukrainian Nationalism. Which means the dismemberment of Russian…..
I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.
That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.
Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.
What we don't know about her is her strength among MPs. She has 19 endorsements, which puts her in fifth position, behind Sunak (47!), Morduant (29), Truss (22) and TT (20).
It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Anecdotally (*), much of Monty Python was completely unwatchable at the time. Even when I watched it as a kid, there were more misses than hits. But those hits were sublime.
IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.
I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.
(*) I wasn't around...
The Goodies has glorious moments- the "my biblical epic"/"my Western"/"my black and white comedy" is great. But a lot of their comedy came from visual effects that were brilliant at the time, but are just quaint now.
Oh yes, the kitten knocking over the Post Office Tower.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Yes, most of Monty P TV is decidedly unfunny, but then you get stabs of genius, which are still very amusing
All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
Some of that Meaning of Life stuff is deeply odd.
That elephant dream? WTF?
It is. But this is a Python theme. There’s a bizarre “aliens in UFOs” sequence in Brian
I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.
That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.
So if we get PM Braverman or PM Truss with Mogg as Chancellor and Dorries as Foreign Secretary you might perk up a bit
Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.
What we don't know about her is her strength among MPs. She has 19 endorsements, which puts her in fifth position, behind Sunak (47!), Morduant (29), Truss (22) and TT (20).
It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.
Yes and whereas a longer contest would have given her the chance of building momentum and a head of steam (which I think she is quite capable of generating), the timetable for this contest is so short she doesn’t get much chance to do that.
She could surprise us and poll anywhere up to 50 votes IMHO but I suspect she will be hovering around the 30 mark and therefore at risk.
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.
Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.
We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.
My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
She has said herself that having a gay twin coming out in the eighties gave her a lot of insight into the problems that Trans people have in gaining acceptance.
I think her views are fairly mainstream on LGBT issues, hence the annoyance to the radical fringes on both sides. She recognises that Biological sex is real, but also that Trans people can legally be recognised as their chosen gender, and should be treated with compassion and not marginalised. Trying to square that circle and have appropriate protections for all does require addressing a lot of edge situations.
I suspect choosing your favourite sit-coms is like choosing politicians. It's sometimes difficult to explain why.
Faviurite comedy film? Life of Brian because some of the lines became classics. "What did the Romans ever do for us?", "It's only a flesh wound." and the prescient ...
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta. Reg: What!? Stan: It's my right as a man. Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan? Stan: I want to have babies. Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?! Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them. Reg: But you can't have babies. Stan: Don't you oppress me. Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box? (Stan starts crying.) Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies"
Not bad for the 1970s.
Also, the caravan scene in 'The Likely lads," where Terry is taking a pee on the outside of the caravan. Bob and the two wives complete the Bridge quartet and are listening in embarrassment. "Well, that's the first time tonight, I know what's in his hand," says one of women.
Also of that era.
The Likely Lads was hilarious but I didn't think the sequel 'Whatever happened to them' was as good.
Underlines the fact that these things can only last for so long.
I used to say that three years at what is now Sunderland University enabled me to understand 'Auf Weidersehn, Pet' without subtitles. It was very entertaining though!
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
Good morning
This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss
However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2
Community gets better until they start losing cast members.
Also the antithesis of the one liner cheap gag. There is an entire story line that develops in secret over the first couple of seasons and then is revealed in a single throwaway line in one episode
I suspect I am in a minority here, but there is such relief that Boris is going that I have lost a lot of interest in politics, which is most unlike me. I am not really following the leadership race in any detail.
That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.
So if we get PM Braverman or PM Truss with Mogg as Chancellor and Dorries as Foreign Secretary you might perk up a bit
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
Good morning
This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss
However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
If that were the final 2 then on the ConHome survey yesterday Sunak would lose to Mordaunt or Truss.
Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress, maybe even starting with the first ballot. Tugendhat should also pick up some Hunt backers
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I like Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I still think the British equivalent - Lead Balloon - is better.
I agree with that - I enjoyed Lead Balloon a lot more, CYE I gave up after 3 seasons. Of course the protagonist of Lead Balloon is a bit different in that he isn't very successful. I have a theory that British programs are more willing to allow us to identify with "losers".
"I like to do self-deprecating humour, but I'm not very good at it"
I didn't watch it at the time for obvious reasons, but Not The Nine O'Clock News has some excellent sketches.
Constable Savage is eternally brilliant.
And completely called out the fact that a lot of policing at the time was overtly racist.
Comedy holds a mirror up to society, sometimes to make us laugh at ourselves, and sometimes to think "we shouldn't really tolerate this situation".
I thought the point of the sketch was that while the police claimed overtly to be non-racist or anti-racist, that the reality was covert or subconscious racism.
Which is why I imagine that Constable Savage is alive, well and has passed all his online multiple choice diversity exams. And now arrests black people for ordering their coffee…. Black.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
That's a good assessment, to be fair.
Yet some comedy transcends this age-limit entirely
I’ve mentioned Wodehouse but I’ll put in a word for Byron’s Beppo. Still genuinely funny. 200 years old!
It’s like finding a wine you can still drink after 2 centuries
Movie wise, Airplane and Life of Brian have endured 40-50 years and remain funny, so they too might be around for centuries
Gullivers Travels (particularly the chapters after Liliput) are genuinely hilarious.
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I love Curb. Seinfeld - while patchy - was also great. I adored Friends when it came out, but recent rewatching has left me cold.
Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.
And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
Succession is very funny. But it is written by a Brit. Curb, Seinfeld, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec are all brilliant. Friends is very well done although I like it less. And the Americans have nailed satirical TV shows better than we have, I used to be addicted to the Daily Show and (especially) the Colbert Report when we lived over there. British comedy has become too safe. It's hard to imagine something like Brass Eye getting made now.
If you think British Comedy has become too safe you should definitely watch Man Down with Greg Davies. Its fantastic.
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
Good morning
This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss
However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
If that were the final 2 then on the ConHome survey yesterday Sunak would lose to Mordaunt or Truss.
Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress.
You have this real problem of when you are called out on fake news you try to deflect
You should admit by your own definition ( not mine) Tugendhat leadership is effectively over
Comedy dates. That’s my takeaway from this. It dates faster than milk on a hot sunny doorstep
Father Ted is maybe an exception. Blackadder (in part). Bits of Fawlty Towers
All filmed drama or comedy is really about two times. The time it was set, and the time it was made. That is why it often ages so poorly.
So Dad's Army is an early Seventies look at WW2 Britain, by people who largely remembered it, hence its gentle nostalgia and comedy focus on issues of social class. It just didn't mean much to a primary school age me. I preferred the silliness of the Goodies, which has aged even worse.
The more interesting question is why some comedy DOESN’T date
It’s rare but it happens. Wodehouse is a prime example. He can make you laugh out loud with the written word - itself impressive - and he can do it with words written 90 years ago. Wow
And he’s writing about a world completely vanished, too
It’s something to do with supremely intelligent use of words, and verbal timing
I find it fascinating that Monty Python's Flying Circus is almost completely unwatchable, while The Life of Brian is utterly brilliant.
Also interesting that when discussing best comedy, nobody (even people living in the US) has mentioned any US sitcoms. If we were discussing best drama series there would be several US programs there. So comedy is more culture specific?
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
I would DEFINITELY put some US sitcoms in my best list. Peak Parks & Rec - Ron Swanson! - is sublime. Also “Community” - at its best a meta-masterpiece
I tried Community, and for me it was OK - didn't grab me enough to watch past the first episode. Not tried Parks and Rec
Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?
Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
Both Community and Parks get better - and better - after a shaky start. Parks only truly kicks in by season 2
They changed the premise in season two and it rescued the show
On the topic of comedy that does or doesn't date well, I think part of it is how relatable it is.
A lot of dated comedy is no longer relatable, because society has moved on, but others can be timeless because even decades (or centuries) later that core of human spirit that was invoked is still there. Yes, (Prime) Minister seems timeless because even though the issues may change, that interaction between self-serving politicians/civil servants etc does not.
One favourite of mine dating before TV is G&S The Mikado. In many ways it shouldn't work, it was very clearly written for the Victorian era, but it still does. What helps is that while the core is kept the same, the willingness is there to rewrite gag lines in songs like "I've got a little list" to suit what is happening today, rather than keeping the gags entirely frozen in the Victorian era. Filmed comedy can't do that.
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.
Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.
We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.
My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
She has said herself that having a gay twin coming out in the eighties gave her a lot of insight into the problems that Trans people have in gaining acceptance.
I think her views are fairly mainstream on LGBT issues, hence the annoyance to the radical fringes on both sides. She recognises that Biological sex is real, but also that Trans people can legally be recognised as their chosen gender, and should be treated with compassion and not marginalised. Trying to square that circle and have appropriate protections for all does require addressing a lot of edge situations.
I’ll be honest, reading her thoughts on things I’m not sure why everyone has such an issue. I agree she seems to be pretty balanced and willing to work with all sides of the debate (which surely is a GOOD thing).
It will also be interesting to see who comes second. At the moment the accepted order seems to be Rishi-Penny-Liz-Tom. However I think any one of Penny, Liz or Tom could make second. Whoever gets it is likely to get some extra momentum.
At the moment Tom has more declared backers than Liz. Nobody has ever won a Tory leadership contest or even got to the final 2 sent to the membership without being in the top 3 in the first ballot, so if Truss fails to even achieve that her leadership campaign could effectively be over
Good morning
This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss
However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
If that were the final 2 then on the ConHome survey yesterday Sunak would lose to Mordaunt or Truss.
Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress.
You have this real problem of when you are called out on fake news you try to deflect
You should admit by your own definition ( not mine) Tugendhat leadership is effectively over
We haven't even had the first ballot yet and little difference between Tugendhat and Truss' MP support.
Though if Tugendhat's campaign were over then Sunak's campaign would also be effectively over as the ConHome survey showed as Mordaunt or Truss would easily beat him with the membership
Mr. HYUFD, caught a tiny bit of BBC News yesterday. The ConHome survey they showed had Sunak ahead of Truss, but some way behind the very close pair of Mordaunt (narrowly leading) and Badenoch.
Mordaunt versus Badenoch seems very unlikely but if it did happen that could be a close contest.
Interesting tweet by Sam Freedman @samfr - picked up by David Herdson;
"Thinking about the amount of money the government raises in taxes and then spends on public services (such as health and education), do you think they should…?"
Less tax/less spending 29% More tax/more spending 20% Keep as now 38%
This polling is fieldwork 8th-12th July; 511 Tory members.”
Seems to be an opinium poll.
Perhaps all the “slash tax” leadership hopefuls have misread the membership? Advantage Sunak?
"Why does Penny Mordaunt hate Dad’s Army? This is no laughing matter for the leadership contender"
I pointed this out the other day.
That's a good article.
I read Ms Morduant's book. Well, more like I skimmed it, but still, I reckon that's more than most. And IIRC, the only show she actually calls out by name is It Ain't Half Hot Mum*, so the article is a little misleading.
* Which, I would note, I was not allowed to watch as a child because my parents decided it had racist stereotypes. Watching it later, I discovered it was simply bleh: it's nowhere near as funny as Dad's Army or early seasons of Hi-de-Hi.
The article does call out It Ain't Half Hot Mum, though: "Hilariously Mordaunt describes It Ain’t Half Hot Mum as “a full-house bingo card of… casual racism, homophobia, white privilege, colonialism, transphobia, bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment”.
And her book ends there. There's no nuance or caveats. David Croft and Jimmy Perry were comedy geniuses - not bigots who wanted us all to laugh at minorities.
I think the article's conclusion is right: it's common amongst trendy politicians desperate to "display their progressive credentials — making a confident pronouncement of hate or love about some cultural artefact in the mistaken belief it will make you look hip. David Cameron’s toe-curling profession of love of The Smiths, Gordon Brown’s for the Arctic Monkeys, or Jeremy Corbyn pretending to watch Eastenders."
To be, the most serious failing is it shows Mordaunt hasn't thought deeply about this- she just accepts the orthodox shibboleths.
I think the opposite, that she has thought deeply about LBGT issues, perhaps not least because her twin brother is gay. She was Equalities Minister too for some time under May.
Her interview with Pink News in which she says "Trans-women are women" is here. She is really just trying to find a way forward on some difficult issues. In particular to take the bureaucracy away from the GRC process.
It's not really for me to say but I think @Cyclefree has publicly stated on here on more than one occasion that she has a gay son. I'm not sure having one or not in the family validates one's views or not on either side of the ledger, although it gives you closer first-hand experience.
We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.
My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
Having been involved in some research on transgender health provision, including PPI with panels of people who are/were referred to gender clinics, all I can say is that - like any other group - the views are too diverse to be neatly summarised.
The one, more or less common, thread is that many (not all - there are some with very strong, fixed, views) would prefer a bit more light and a bit less heat in the debate and certainly a lot more tolerance of different opinions. Another is that there's a fair group who would rather we weren't so hung up about gender at all, that are not men wanting to be women or vice-versa, but whom just don't feel they fit society's view of either of the genders - not really caring whether that much whether 'he' or 'she' but wanting to be able to behave and dress etc in a way more commonly matching the opposite gender to their birth sex without being abused or judged. Some felt forced into socially changing gender as that was a more socially acceptable way of behaving/dressing as they wished.
(The above is all anecdote, not the subject of the research - PPI is with a convenience sample, so may not be representative etc. The research was whole population using healthcare data, but that doesn't get to individual opinions of course).
This is not a judgement about policy content, but as pure performance and for coherence of argument, @KemiBadenoch was impressive today, possibly the best performance by any candidate so far."
Mr. Twelve, I'm not sure Badenoch should be discounted from the possibility of advancing.
What we don't know about her is her strength among MPs. She has 19 endorsements, which puts her in fifth position, behind Sunak (47!), Morduant (29), Truss (22) and TT (20).
It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.
Yes and whereas a longer contest would have given her the chance of building momentum and a head of steam (which I think she is quite capable of generating), the timetable for this contest is so short she doesn’t get much chance to do that.
She could surprise us and poll anywhere up to 50 votes IMHO but I suspect she will be hovering around the 30 mark and therefore at risk.
Yes, I think its a shame that the race has been curtailed so quickly. A week between nominations and the first vote at least should pass, giving time for hustings/debates etc
While there's an eagerness to replace Boris, he's a Norwegian Blue politically anyway. What ought to be more important is getting the right new PM, rather than rushing head first into a mistake.
If the 2005 leadership race was as short as this one, we'd have probably ended up with Davis instead of Cameron as leader.
Comments
But he is coming out with weird stuff about Russia on his blog, effectively peddling Russian talking points. IE:
"We have a disastrous war seen as existential by the world’s biggest nuclear power where our own leaders are comically bad and our ‘ally’ is literally led by a comedian, propped up by his own oligarchs and a faction of the UKR intel services."
Doesn't make them English or want to be ruled by us again.
“I was left in no doubt about the severity of the hangover when a cat stamped into the room.”
… Can make me chuckle every time I read it. Written in 1940
The idea of a cat “stamping” is amusingly surreal in itself, but even better if it is an illusion in the brain of a man with a killer hangover. We’ve all been there
And there is more humour in the slightly stiff way he writes this, like a policeman reading his notes in court, in a nasal voice, which adds another layer
Absolute genius
Jeeves and Worcester
Yes (Prime) Minister
Red dwarf
All favourites of mine.
From the USA, Friends and the Simpsons (Earlier stuff) we've had on in the background with the little one endlessly.
I wonder if this is a case of "follow the money..."
https://twitter.com/benjamincohen/status/1546943095916433408
All the canonic Python films are brilliant. Holy Grail gets better over time, Life of Brian is one of the funniest films ever made - possibly perfect, what would you change? - Meaning of Life is a mixed bag yet still has more stand out moments than 99% of comic movies: Mr Creosote, Every Sperm, Sex Education
IMV 'The Fast Show' was much less hit-and-miss; perhaps because it did not seem to try as hard.
I'd also comment on the Goodies, but no-one ever shows that anymore.
(*) I wasn't around...
Attackers always have it harder than defenders. How can Russia replace its tank losses? Or its artillery losses? At least the Ukrainians are getting resupplied by the West, and with increasingly effective kit.
Any new Russian leader's first priority will be stopping the bleeding. Russia doesn't have an unlimited supply of men and materiel to throw into Ukraine. Sanctions plus war losses are not a good combination.
Now: will the Russians get something? Yes, I suspect that Zelensky will have to accept that Crimea is no longer Ukrainian. But I think that's about it.
As an adolescent I loved the Goon Show; now it leaves me cold. I could take or leave "It ain't half hot Mum" but I loved I like early "Last of the summer wine". Like many of the others it outstayed its welcome, though! You can't go on with these things forever!
No harm in saying “Having thought further on this issue my views have evolved and I now recognise the need to protect the rights of women and girls as well as Trans-people’s, which I may have overlooked before” - but that’s not what she’s doing.
Obviously comedy doesn't tend to translate well, but there's something else going on - we (Brits) don't have any problem "getting" the humour of Friends or Frasier or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but those programs don't "get" us enough to appeal deeply.
Nor do I believe what I appear to have believed then!
Most people in southern Belgium speak french, that doesn't mean France has a claim to southern Belgium.
Most people in northern Belgium speak Dutch, that doesn't mean the Netherlands has a claim to northern Belgium.
“The search goes on for the ayatollah’s contact lens”
Wouldn’t be allowed now, natch
Services sector drove growth, principally a large rise (15%) in GP appointments in England - which isn’t something you’d try to hang our future prosperity on.
ONS adjusted……for the impact of the extra working day in May due to Jubilee.
All main sectors grew. Road hauliers were busy and travel agents swamped by pent up demand for summer holidays. Output in consumer-facing services fell but not really a snapshot of an economy heading for recession.
https://twitter.com/itvjoel/status/1547103008932208643
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20273937.durham-newcastle-sunderland-schools-government-list-rebuild/
Surely he didn't mean that.
When much of the time it just means being an edgelord.
Some things should be left alone.
AVP and AVPP both passed me by at the time. But I think you're right.
Does Flight of the Conchords count as American?
Also really enjoyed Bored to Death.
Parks & Rec is comedy genius. As is The Office. Or at least seasons two through six of The Office.
And while it's incredibly dark and only sortof a comedy, Succession is also utterly brilliant.
I think Zahawi and Braverman out. Suspect Hunt will squeeze through. Kemi I think is 50:50 (she is too short right now).
But my favourite which I am currently watching again is Two & a Half Men.
Frasier is a great US sitcom- though the protaganists are europhiles, the comedy is a lot about snobbery (a common theme in British sitcoms), and has Daphne!
Comedy holds a mirror up to society, sometimes to make us laugh at ourselves, and sometimes to think "we shouldn't really tolerate this situation".
https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1546637939475681281?s=20&t=Qg05KdnHdytWhlx4q9g2Gw
Curb, Seinfeld, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec are all brilliant. Friends is very well done although I like it less. And the Americans have nailed satirical TV shows better than we have, I used to be addicted to the Daily Show and (especially) the Colbert Report when we lived over there.
British comedy has become too safe. It's hard to imagine something like Brass Eye getting made now.
We used to have a poster on here called John McDonnell (not that one) who was trans and had zero time for the Pink News/Stonewall agenda.
My issue with Penny Mordaunt is that she clearly hasn't thought through some of these big issues as well as she thinks she has, which makes me wonder if her intellect is just skin-deep - there's no doubt she's brave and a hard worker.
That elephant dream? WTF?
Faviurite comedy film? Life of Brian because some of the lines became classics. "What did the Romans ever do for us?", "It's only a flesh wound." and the prescient ...
Stan: I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta.
Reg: What!?
Stan: It's my right as a man.
Judith: Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Stan: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan -- you haven't got a womb. Where's the
fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
(Stan starts crying.)
Judith: Here! I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually
have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the
Romans', but that he can have the *right* to have babies"
Not bad for the 1970s.
Also, the caravan scene in 'The Likely lads," where Terry is taking a pee on the outside of the caravan. Bob and the two wives complete the Bridge quartet and are listening in embarrassment. "Well, that's the first time tonight, I know what's in his hand," says one of women.
Also of that era.
I’ve mentioned Wodehouse but I’ll put in a word for Byron’s Beppo. Still genuinely funny. 200 years old!
It’s like finding a wine you can still drink after 2 centuries
Movie wise, Airplane and Life of Brian have endured 40-50 years and remain funny, so they too might be around for centuries
So to a Greater Russian Nationalist, Greater U.K. Nationalism is the only sane policy for the U.K.
This then causes the problem that the people and government of Y are, of course, secretly plotting their Greater Y Nationalism and that of their allies.
So we *must* be plotting Greater Ukrainian Nationalism. Which means the dismemberment of Russian…..
That really does show for me how toxic Boris is/was.
It's not impossible that she fails to clear 30 votes tomorrow, in which case she simply out the race.
The most interesting character in terms of variability of results, and young enough to have a crack next time.
She could surprise us and poll anywhere up to 50 votes IMHO but I suspect she will be hovering around the 30 mark and therefore at risk.
I think her views are fairly mainstream on LGBT issues, hence the annoyance to the radical fringes on both sides. She recognises that Biological sex is real, but also that Trans people can legally be recognised as their chosen gender, and should be treated with compassion and not marginalised. Trying to square that circle and have appropriate protections for all does require addressing a lot of edge situations.
Underlines the fact that these things can only last for so long.
I used to say that three years at what is now Sunderland University enabled me to understand 'Auf Weidersehn, Pet' without subtitles. It was very entertaining though!
This mornings nominations list shows Truss leading Tugendhat by 24 to 22 so by your analysis Tugendhat is over not Truss
However as far as I am concerned it is still an unknown as to the final 2 but I expect it will be Sunak v Mordaunt/Truss
Alarming that even needs to be said. "Adult acknowledges genes exist."
Also the antithesis of the one liner cheap gag. There is an entire story line that develops in secret over the first couple of seasons and then is revealed in a single throwaway line in one episode
Hence as I said yesterday the Sunak camp will try and shore up Tugendhat as the rounds progress, maybe even starting with the first ballot. Tugendhat should also pick up some Hunt backers
"I like to do self-deprecating humour, but I'm not very good at it"
Which is why I imagine that Constable Savage is alive, well and has passed all his online multiple choice diversity exams. And now arrests black people for ordering their coffee…. Black.
Bunch of doomsayers the lot of you.
You should admit by your own definition ( not mine) Tugendhat leadership is effectively over
BBC News - UK economy grows more than expected in May
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62146064
A lot of dated comedy is no longer relatable, because society has moved on, but others can be timeless because even decades (or centuries) later that core of human spirit that was invoked is still there. Yes, (Prime) Minister seems timeless because even though the issues may change, that interaction between self-serving politicians/civil servants etc does not.
One favourite of mine dating before TV is G&S The Mikado. In many ways it shouldn't work, it was very clearly written for the Victorian era, but it still does. What helps is that while the core is kept the same, the willingness is there to rewrite gag lines in songs like "I've got a little list" to suit what is happening today, rather than keeping the gags entirely frozen in the Victorian era. Filmed comedy can't do that.
Like I said, she holds mainstream beliefs that the radicals at each extreme don't like.
Though if Tugendhat's campaign were over then Sunak's campaign would also be effectively over as the ConHome survey showed as Mordaunt or Truss would easily beat him with the membership
Mordaunt versus Badenoch seems very unlikely but if it did happen that could be a close contest.
Interesting tweet by Sam Freedman @samfr - picked up by David Herdson;
"Thinking about the amount of money the government raises in taxes and then spends on public services (such as health and education), do you think they should…?"
Less tax/less spending 29%
More tax/more spending 20%
Keep as now 38%
This polling is fieldwork 8th-12th July; 511 Tory members.”
Seems to be an opinium poll.
Perhaps all the “slash tax” leadership hopefuls have misread the membership? Advantage Sunak?
The one, more or less common, thread is that many (not all - there are some with very strong, fixed, views) would prefer a bit more light and a bit less heat in the debate and certainly a lot more tolerance of different opinions. Another is that there's a fair group who would rather we weren't so hung up about gender at all, that are not men wanting to be women or vice-versa, but whom just don't feel they fit society's view of either of the genders - not really caring whether that much whether 'he' or 'she' but wanting to be able to behave and dress etc in a way more commonly matching the opposite gender to their birth sex without being abused or judged. Some felt forced into socially changing gender as that was a more socially acceptable way of behaving/dressing as they wished.
(The above is all anecdote, not the subject of the research - PPI is with a convenience sample, so may not be representative etc. The research was whole population using healthcare data, but that doesn't get to individual opinions of course).
While there's an eagerness to replace Boris, he's a Norwegian Blue politically anyway. What ought to be more important is getting the right new PM, rather than rushing head first into a mistake.
If the 2005 leadership race was as short as this one, we'd have probably ended up with Davis instead of Cameron as leader.