Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
I can’t believe they haven’t elbowed Boris off the dancefloor. FFS
Surely one more Cabinet Mjnister would have done it. Idiots!
The Sunak and Javid resignations were 9 minutes apart, so it had to be coordinated, but they didn't think about convincing a third Cabinet Minister to go with them?
There comes a point in every party's existence (it happens several times in truth) when the point of its existence comes into question.
Is it in business to be in office, to be the Government, to steer the course of the country or is it about a series of core principles from which the policies and programmes are derived?
Sometimes, the two are compatible, sometimes, as now, they become mutually exclusive. In other words, the Government in office has to implement measures which run counter to its core principles - one example is a party dedicated to lowering taxes having to raise taxes under difficult economic circumstances.
All the main parties have been there in the past couple of decades - now, it is the Conservative Party's turn to be in Government what it swore in Opposition it would never be - the slightly more high tax and spending of the two social democratic parties.
"To thine own self be true" the saying goes but if the price of ideological purity and virtue is Opposition, that becomes the price.
Do the Conservatives rally want to stay in office (power is long gone) and see their ideological compromise deepen further or is it time to move into Opposition and rebuild (or, more accurately, pace a certain tv character, re-generate)?
The American House of Cards was way better then the British one
Agreed, just got onto Series 5, splendid stuff
Series 1, 4 and 5 are good. 2 and 3 are too slow and self-consciously arty. And the ending is just dismal.
Better the Designated Survivor, started watching that 1st series very good, 2nd so so, 3rd series shocking
Yes, it dragged on far too long.
It's also based on a false premise, which slightly annoys me.
How so?
Under the Presidential Succession Act, anyone other than the Veep can only be acting President ('shall then act as President') and can be 'bumped' if someone higher up the order becomes available.
So Kirkman would have been acting President, and when Congress elected Hoogstraten Speaker she would have become acting President in turn while fresh elections were held, then a new President would have taken office.
It's not a clever piece of drafting, but that is the law.
I think you've got that wrong. Under the US Constitution the person chosen to act as President acts as such until the President recovers (impossible if they're dead) or until the next election.
The new Speaker wouldn't become higher up the list since there'd be no vacancy for acting President with the role already filled by Kirkman. The law doesn't provide for the acting President to be bumped out of the role by someone else.
In reality when the old President is dead "acting as President" is taken to mean being inaugurated as President. The Veep originally only acted as President too, but that was taken to mean inaugurated the first time it happened.
Because it's not the constitution that governs the process of succession, it's the Presidential Succession Act 1947 under the provision of the constitution that Congress can determine who shall act as president.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Isn’t that the plan? Get them to rally around Boris.
Depends. Tories sell that as we do what is needed whllst the opposition play childish games.
How do? This government is clearly not something anyone has confidence in. Labour can vote for the motion with integrity. The 1922 failed. It’s the Tories that would struggle.
Entirely up to Labour. Will look ridiculous if done too soon. You bang it in if he survives the week/1922 changes tie them to him then
Disagree, the now is the time to do it. Challenge the Tory rebels. If they back Boris they’re screwed. If they vote against Boris they’re screwed.
The “funny” thing is that Rishi is essentially fiscally very right wing. Rishi would love to deliver aggressive tax cuts, but he had the problem of actually being in office and needing to do things like avoid a run on the pound.
Not that I want to defend him too much. He actually wasn’t very good.
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Of course he’s going to brazen it out, unless Brady stops him.
The cabinet are revolting as they prepare to get their Johnson out. – politicalbetting.com
Some in No 10 braced for further ministerial resignations. Tory allies of the PM feeling inevitability, this could be the end. Many not as bullish as they have been at previous crisis moments.
So, Javid and Sunak. Wonder if this means Sunak still wants it. I'm not claiming great prescience, but I did say at the weekend I thought there was an opportunity for a non-front runner Minister to resign and catapult themselves back into the race.
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
Bev, re: yesterdays great hat debate, what are your views re: the snood?
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
They won't, JRM is very popular amongst the Tory membership and it is the Tory membership who get the final say on the next Tory leader and PM not the public
Would you care to have a bet on that? I am willing to bet that JRM will not be in the cabinet of Boris's successor. He is an embarrassment and gives the Tories an image they badly need to ditch. Like now.
This Tory membership want proper rightwingers like Mogg in Cabinet not just wets like Sunak and Hunt.
They have had enough of pure image they want the party to return to core Tory values. They have been in power long enough, 12 years, winning further power without pushing through Tory ideology is now pointless as far as they are concerned, better to go into opposition. Starmer after all is no Corbyn anyway
Then they'll get hammered, the lib dems and labour will hit them from both flanks and they'll be sub 200 seats again quickly.
The world has moved on, old school right wing policies mean electoral oblivion.
They didn't for Thatcher, Boris also had plenty of rightwing red meat in 2019 too even if not as much as Thatcher did when she won
And then 1997 happened...
With Blair having accepted much of the Thatcherite consensus
On elements of fiscal policy, but not on social issues.
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
They won't, JRM is very popular amongst the Tory membership and it is the Tory membership who get the final say on the next Tory leader and PM not the public
Oh, so the public are imperfectluy coordinated with the Party view? Must be so annoying for you.
The public gave the Tories a 5 year term in 2019, they get no further say on next PM until 2024/25
I get you’re stating fact. But you realise you are meant to be running a democracy, not a cult deemed acceptable by a a dwindling Tory party membership? I don’t understand it - aren’t you meant to be governing in the country’s best interest?
You think Rees-Mogg exemplifies that?
Conservative MPs get elected to implement Conservative ideology, otherwise there is no point to being in power at all if you are just going to be a Blue Labour government. May as well let Starmer get in and return to true Tory principles. As far as most Tory members are concerned, Boris' main problem is he has not been Tory enough!
This lot are implementing UKIP ideology. They are no more Conservatives than you are.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
Bev, re: yesterdays great hat debate, what are your views re: the snood?
Are they the bald aliens in Dr Who that carry a glowing ball everywhere they go?
I presume you mean the hairnet thing? Awful. Ugly. Dreadful.
I have seen some Irish Tweed hats and I am very tempted to get one
Michael Gove is key, I think. Maybe Boris can survive if he can persuade him to become CoE, but Gove hasn't been conspicuous with his support recently.
Wallace is right to stay as Her Majesty's defence minister, given the Ukraine situation. We really can't afford any discontinuity there.
I didn't realise saying 'Yes' and writing blank cheques was a skill peculiar to Wallace.
The “funny” thing is that Rishi is essentially fiscally very right wing. Rishi would love to deliver aggressive tax cuts, but he had the problem of actually being in office and needing to do things like avoid a run on the pound.
Not that I want to defend him too much. He actually wasn’t very good.
He's a fiscal conservative.
If he did go for a platform like that he'd accompany it with spending cuts.
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
They won't, JRM is very popular amongst the Tory membership and it is the Tory membership who get the final say on the next Tory leader and PM not the public
Would you care to have a bet on that? I am willing to bet that JRM will not be in the cabinet of Boris's successor. He is an embarrassment and gives the Tories an image they badly need to ditch. Like now.
This Tory membership want proper rightwingers like Mogg in Cabinet not just wets like Sunak and Hunt.
They have had enough of pure image they want the party to return to core Tory values. They have been in power long enough, 12 years, winning further power without pushing through Tory ideology is now pointless as far as they are concerned, better to go into opposition. Starmer after all is no Corbyn anyway
Then they'll get hammered, the lib dems and labour will hit them from both flanks and they'll be sub 200 seats again quickly.
The world has moved on, old school right wing policies mean electoral oblivion.
They didn't for Thatcher, Boris also had plenty of rightwing red meat in 2019 too even if not as much as Thatcher did when she won
And then 1997 happened...
With Blair having accepted much of the Thatcherite consensus
On elements of fiscal policy, but not on social issues.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Of course he’s going to brazen it out, unless Brady stops him.
I doubt it. It only takes, what, 32 changing their minds? In a secret ballot?
We are up to six already. And that's with needing to resign to do it.
There comes a point in every party's existence (it happens several times in truth) when the point of its existence comes into question.
Is it in business to be in office, to be the Government, to steer the course of the country or is it about a series of core principles from which the policies and programmes are derived?
Sometimes, the two are compatible, sometimes, as now, they become mutually exclusive. In other words, the Government in office has to implement measures which run counter to its core principles - one example is a party dedicated to lowering taxes having to raise taxes under difficult economic circumstances.
All the main parties have been there in the past couple of decades - now, it is the Conservative Party's turn to be in Government what it swore in Opposition it would never be - the slightly more high tax and spending of the two social democratic parties.You
"To thine own self be true" the saying goes but if the price of ideological purity and virtue is Opposition, that becomes the price.
Do the Conservatives rally want to stay in office (power is long gone) and see their ideological compromise deepen further or is it time to move into Opposition and rebuild (or, more accurately, pace a certain tv character, re-generate)?
You could make a good case for the point of the existence of Labour also being in question.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
By having an urgent meeting in Kiev and leaving it to someone else?
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
By talking about record numbers of people in employment, 40 new hospitals, getting the “big calls” right, and suggesting Keir is a Corbynist bore.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
By having an urgent meeting in Kiev and leaving it to someone else?
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
By talking about record numbers of people in employment, 40 new hospitals, getting the “big calls” right, and suggesting Keir is a Corbynist bore.
Having just heard SKS on Sky News he maybe has a point on the last one.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
They won't, JRM is very popular amongst the Tory membership and it is the Tory membership who get the final say on the next Tory leader and PM not the public
Would you care to have a bet on that? I am willing to bet that JRM will not be in the cabinet of Boris's successor. He is an embarrassment and gives the Tories an image they badly need to ditch. Like now.
This Tory membership want proper rightwingers like Mogg in Cabinet not just wets like Sunak and Hunt.
They have had enough of pure image they want the party to return to core Tory values. They have been in power long enough, 12 years, winning further power without pushing through Tory ideology is now pointless as far as they are concerned, better to go into opposition. Starmer after all is no Corbyn anyway
Then they'll get hammered, the lib dems and labour will hit them from both flanks and they'll be sub 200 seats again quickly.
The world has moved on, old school right wing policies mean electoral oblivion.
They didn't for Thatcher, Boris also had plenty of rightwing red meat in 2019 too even if not as much as Thatcher did when she won
And then 1997 happened...
With Blair having accepted much of the Thatcherite consensus
On elements of fiscal policy, but not on social issues.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Of course he’s going to brazen it out, unless Brady stops him.
I doubt it. It only takes, what, 32 changing their minds? In a secret ballot?
We are up to six already. And that's with needing to resign to do it.
It's over.
Maybe but PMQs continues. Someone will front. Probably Johnson.
Michael Gove is key, I think. Maybe Boris can survive if he can persuade him to become CoE, but Gove hasn't been conspicuous with his support recently.
Wallace is right to stay as Her Majesty's defence minister, given the Ukraine situation. We really can't afford any discontinuity there.
Gove will be Chancellor, Health Sec'y, Deputy PM, and will also take on the other portfolios of the Resigners
Mogg has serious childhood issues. He can’t bear the thought that Sunak is wealthier and rose to higher political office but went to Winchester. Mogg is scarred by the fact that when he was at Eton it was mocked for being the home for rich thickos with the odd diamond in the rough and is aware that it confers absolutely no intelligence cachet for his generation.
His pathetic critique of Nick Boles was another example.
He would be praising Oswald Mosley up to the eyeballs if his chip from his schooldays about Etonian/Wykehamist relations wasn’t an ever-present ghost in his life.
I’m imagining he got bowled a fast one in the goolies in the Winchester/Eton 8th eleven cricket for physical specimens made out of straw and never let it go.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
By talking about record numbers of people in employment, 40 new hospitals, getting the “big calls” right, and suggesting Keir is a Corbynist bore.
Starmer should stand up and say:
"I have nothing to add. I cannot intrude on such personal grief"
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
He'll resign before midday tomorrow. He can't do PMQs, he just can't.
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Any normal person yes. Boris? But I agree, how does he do PMQ?
At this point, can he avoid it? Maggie did the swansong PMQs and confidence debate after announcing her departure.
But unless BoJo announces his resignation and then goes off in a huff without an elected successor, he's on the hook for tomorrow's questions.
Difficult to be sure, but I think Boris might just survive this. No one will know who Javid is. As for Rishi, thanks to Boris's dark arts combined with some of his own in ineptitude he'll just be remembered as the billionaire tax dodger who did something underhand on a petrol-station forecourt. Boris will probably push on.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
The American House of Cards was way better then the British one
Agreed, just got onto Series 5, splendid stuff
Series 1, 4 and 5 are good. 2 and 3 are too slow and self-consciously arty. And the ending is just dismal.
Better the Designated Survivor, started watching that 1st series very good, 2nd so so, 3rd series shocking
Yes, it dragged on far too long.
It's also based on a false premise, which slightly annoys me.
How so?
Under the Presidential Succession Act, anyone other than the Veep can only be acting President ('shall then act as President') and can be 'bumped' if someone higher up the order becomes available.
So Kirkman would have been acting President, and when Congress elected Hoogstraten Speaker she would have become acting President in turn while fresh elections were held, then a new President would have taken office.
It's not a clever piece of drafting, but that is the law.
I think you've got that wrong. Under the US Constitution the person chosen to act as President acts as such until the President recovers (impossible if they're dead) or until the next election.
The new Speaker wouldn't become higher up the list since there'd be no vacancy for acting President with the role already filled by Kirkman. The law doesn't provide for the acting President to be bumped out of the role by someone else.
In reality when the old President is dead "acting as President" is taken to mean being inaugurated as President. The Veep originally only acted as President too, but that was taken to mean inaugurated the first time it happened.
Because it's not the constitution that governs the process of succession, it's the Presidential Succession Act 1947 under the provision of the constitution that Congress can determine who shall act as president.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
Having read Sunak's and Rishi's resignation letters, I find them (to use a Malcolm-like terminology) supremely ar*e-licking. They read like letters of total support except there is a line buried in them that says, effectively, "Oh BTW, I resign"
Do none of them have the nerve to write a letter like Dear PM, I cannot serve under you because you are rubbish at this job and are destroying politics and the country"?
They are politicians not pantomime dames
They are spineless
No, they are resigning the way all politicians from all parties tend to. And quitting your job in politics is rarely spineless. Belated, yes. Spineless, no. Its politics, not Real Housewives of Westminster
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
The American House of Cards was way better then the British one
Agreed, just got onto Series 5, splendid stuff
Series 1, 4 and 5 are good. 2 and 3 are too slow and self-consciously arty. And the ending is just dismal.
Better the Designated Survivor, started watching that 1st series very good, 2nd so so, 3rd series shocking
Yes, it dragged on far too long.
It's also based on a false premise, which slightly annoys me.
How so?
Under the Presidential Succession Act, anyone other than the Veep can only be acting President ('shall then act as President') and can be 'bumped' if someone higher up the order becomes available.
So Kirkman would have been acting President, and when Congress elected Hoogstraten Speaker she would have become acting President in turn while fresh elections were held, then a new President would have taken office.
It's not a clever piece of drafting, but that is the law.
I think you've got that wrong. Under the US Constitution the person chosen to act as President acts as such until the President recovers (impossible if they're dead) or until the next election.
The new Speaker wouldn't become higher up the list since there'd be no vacancy for acting President with the role already filled by Kirkman. The law doesn't provide for the acting President to be bumped out of the role by someone else.
In reality when the old President is dead "acting as President" is taken to mean being inaugurated as President. The Veep originally only acted as President too, but that was taken to mean inaugurated the first time it happened.
Because it's not the constitution that governs the process of succession, it's the Presidential Succession Act 1947 under the provision of the constitution that Congress can determine who shall act as president.
With respect, that is irrelevant. The key part is Article II, section 6:
the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Which they have under the PSA 1947. Which allows bumping.
Possibly it shouldn't under the terms of the Constitution, but it does.
Tricky one for Wallace given what is on his plate. I see the argument he should stay put but the logic of that is that he stays put as part of a functioning government. I don't think that that exists so how can he do his job? Where does the money come from without a Chancellor, the policy without a functioning cabinet, the leadership with Boris in office?
I think he should go now in the hope that the whole government is replaced by something bettter that can allow the UK to do what it can to help Ukraine in an effective way rather than by photo op.
Oliver Dowden must be really pissed off that his principled resignation, less than a fortnight ago, has been consigned to the dustbin of history so quickly. "Who's he?", the masses asked.
Re cabinet not quitting. They may simply assume the game is up and they are best placed to fight for the leadership from cabinet. Patel, Raab, Truss probably all see themselves as potential 'cabinet agreed caretaker'
Is it conceivable that the only way to get shut will be Tories supporting VONC against government? No automatic GE will follow. Queen will call leader most likely to form a government so possibilities include: 1. No leadership campaign instead Tory MPs will have to agree on one candidate to avoid prolonged vote. 2. Temporary PM while leadership contest takes place (May?)
Tories have to be vary careful they don't precipitate an election by accident. Of course it is also possible that Starmer may go soon (before Boris??).
Entertaining!
The main problem is getting Starmer (or the LOTO if its not Starmer) to play ball. Only the LOTO can call a VONC and it be guaranteed to be debated and voted on.
So.... let's just make something up and say Johnson refuses to resign and replaces the cabinet members who have resigned. Unless the 1922 committee can change the rules, the only final way is a Parliamentary vote. So the 'leader' of the Con rebels (and I'll make something ELSE up and just say 'Hunt') approaches Starmer.
Hunt wants a VONC, which he guarantees he and 100 others will support. Starmer wants a VONC.
So it seems a no brainer. But its what happens afterwards. Hunt would want a VONC followed by an alternative Conservative government, led by him, WITHOUT a General Election. Starmer would want a VONC followed by a GE.
Hunt can't get the VONC even called to debate without Starmer. Starmer won't accept tabling a VONC unless it leads to a GE.
Hunt *might say* he'd agree to a GE, but Starmer has no way of guaranteeing that. Starmer could call the VONC, win it, and then ask for a GE only for Hunt to shaft him over and stop one.
Starmer, though he DOES have a role in this latest drama, almost certainly won't do anything. He can't get what he wants, and no alternative Conservative would feel happy giving him a GE (except Rory Stewart, who isn't here anymore).
Tricky one for Wallace given what is on his plate. I see the argument he should stay put but the logic of that is that he stays put as part of a functioning government. I don't think that that exists so how can he do his job? Where does the money come from without a Chancellor, the policy without a functioning cabinet, the leadership with Boris in office?
I think he should go now in the hope that the whole government is replaced by something bettter that can allow the UK to do what it can to help Ukraine in an effective way rather than by photo op.
The way to square this circle is to be confident in his Ministers of State and ask them to hold the fort while he resigns to deal with the Prime Minister.
Oliver Dowden must be really pissed off that his principled resignation, less than a fortnight ago, has been consigned to the dustbin of history so quickly. "Who's he?", the masses asked.
Re cabinet not quitting. They may simply assume the game is up and they are best placed to fight for the leadership from cabinet. Patel, Raab, Truss probably all see themselves as potential 'cabinet agreed caretaker'
Caretaker is about their level. Not sure I'd trust them to mop the floors properly, mind.
George Eustice is also staying, according to @BBCVickiYoung - the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
I wasn’t aware that Nyarlathotep was a Tory MP.
I appreciate that’s an obscure reference.
I was actually thinking exactly that myself when I read 'New Management'!
Not my favourite Stross books. There’s only so much personal hatred I can deal with. Looking forward to the new Laundry though.
Re cabinet not quitting. They may simply assume the game is up and they are best placed to fight for the leadership from cabinet. Patel, Raab, Truss probably all see themselves as potential 'cabinet agreed caretaker'
Patel won’t be re-appointed. She is unpopular, and only got the present job for culture-war style shits and giggles.
Raab is quite dim, and is likely caught in some headlights somewhere. He too will not survive Johnson.
Truss is a WTF. She had her chance and she’s blown it. She’ll be another casualty therefore.
We are going to see quite a lot of the fatberg dislodged, I think.
There are 19 Cabinet Ministers left, and a further 8 “attending” Cabinet.
All of them - save Wallace maybe, and for the moment Zahawi - have calculated they won’t get a job post-Boris.
It’s simply incredible how much shit is sitting in this u-bend.
Coffey is a surprise. She is actually capable as far as I can see.
Perhaps lacking in confidence. I really struggle to understand the psychology. Only a few are actually HYUFD-style stark raving mad.
One doesn't want to think of her as a "lonely girl from a women's college", but there may be an element of that. But who wants to admit that they've been a stooge?
Whatever he doesn't understand (and there's a lot), Boris has always understood raw human power and schoolboy cruelty.
NEW: Boris Johnson has just concluded a meeting of his core team in which he has decided to replace Sunak and Javid -- possibly tonight -- in an attempt to ride out the storm
Tricky one for Wallace given what is on his plate. I see the argument he should stay put but the logic of that is that he stays put as part of a functioning government. I don't think that that exists so how can he do his job? Where does the money come from without a Chancellor, the policy without a functioning cabinet, the leadership with Boris in office?
I think he should go now in the hope that the whole government is replaced by something bettter that can allow the UK to do what it can to help Ukraine in an effective way rather than by photo op.
The way to square this circle is to be confident in his Ministers of State and ask them to hold the fort while he resigns to deal with the Prime Minister.
They are all in pretty much the same predicament as Wallace though. That would just be passing the problem on.
Please keep JRM on tv.... excellent recruiter for Labour, LDs, Plaid, SNP, Greens, etc. Smug arrogant condescending berk...totally out of touch
When the new management takes over tomorrow he and mad Nad and a few others will return to well deserved obscurity with the scorn of an ungrateful nation.
They won't, JRM is very popular amongst the Tory membership and it is the Tory membership who get the final say on the next Tory leader and PM not the public
Oh, so the public are imperfectluy coordinated with the Party view? Must be so annoying for you.
The public gave the Tories a 5 year term in 2019, they get no further say on next PM until 2024/25
Hmm. I see someone actually gave you an Off Topic for that. Not me. Obvs also uncoordinated with the Party.
NEW: Boris Johnson has just concluded a meeting of his core team in which he has decided to replace Sunak and Javid -- possibly tonight -- in an attempt to ride out the storm
Oliver Dowden must be really pissed off that his principled resignation, less than a fortnight ago, has been consigned to the dustbin of history so quickly. "Who's he?", the masses asked.
NEW: Boris Johnson has just concluded a meeting of his core team in which he has decided to replace Sunak and Javid -- possibly tonight -- in an attempt to ride out the storm
Oliver Dowden must be really pissed off that his principled resignation, less than a fortnight ago, has been consigned to the dustbin of history so quickly. "Who's he?", the masses asked.
We asked that when he was in office.
We really didn't if only because very, very few were aware that he was even in office or what office he held.
Whoever takes the Chancellor job is going down in history as such a worm! Sure, you can say forever you were once chancellor. But will it really be worth the shame?
Even Widdecombe on BBC News is saying it is probably curtains.
RefUK wants him gone so they can pick up some of his voters!
I want him gone so the conservatives can regain the votes he is haemorrhaging
Dream on, my friend.
Your fate was sealed when you jumped from “If that lying clown becomes party leader I am leaving the party” to “I’m now backing that same lying clown for PM!”.
You made your bed…
I supported Johnson through Brexit, Covid and Ukraine but starting with Paterson through wallpapergate and partygate to the present debacle he has to go but of course Brexit for you is a trauma but for me is fine but does need work on it to improve it and is why I was surprised and pleased with Starmer's position on it
Heseltine has just said Brexit is the worst mistake any government has made in 70 years. A catastrophy. When told that Johnson going isn't going to change anything and even Labour now support Brexit he said "we have the Lib Dems"
Interesting from a Remaining Tory. Perhaps the Future could be Orange.
Remember golden days of yore, when PBers fulminated at the indecency of referring to the PM as BoJo?
I remember the golden days when a goodly proportion of PB Tories thought Boris was their saviour.
They are pretending that nobody remembers.
But he was the saviour of the Tory party - and the country. He got Brexit done, by winning a large majority, and if that had not happened the Tories would have descended into terrible internal warfare - as the whole country went on to an absolutely catastrophic 2nd referendum. Just try and imagine how that would have gone, as it was boycotted by millions of Leavers (like me). There you go. What do you do after that? After a botched 2nd vote with half the voters not showing up? That’s the end of British democracy
So many 2nd voters - such as Keir Starmer - like to pretend this would not have happened. Those Remainers that do now belatedly realise this want us to conveniently forget all about their demands for a 2nd referendum. Utter Wankers
However, the good that Boris did then is now seriously outweighed by his many flaws and unforced errors. He has to go
Comments
Far from good people though.
BTW, how was lunch. That place looks very atmospheric. How about the grub?
Is it in business to be in office, to be the Government, to steer the course of the country or is it about a series of core principles from which the policies and programmes are derived?
Sometimes, the two are compatible, sometimes, as now, they become mutually exclusive. In other words, the Government in office has to implement measures which run counter to its core principles - one example is a party dedicated to lowering taxes having to raise taxes under difficult economic circumstances.
All the main parties have been there in the past couple of decades - now, it is the Conservative Party's turn to be in Government what it swore in Opposition it would never be - the slightly more high tax and spending of the two social democratic parties.
"To thine own self be true" the saying goes but if the price of ideological purity and virtue is Opposition, that becomes the price.
Do the Conservatives rally want to stay in office (power is long gone) and see their ideological compromise deepen further or is it time to move into Opposition and rebuild (or, more accurately, pace a certain tv character, re-generate)?
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-continuity-of-the-presidency-the-second-report-of-the-continuity-of-government-commission/
Because it's not the constitution that governs the process of succession, it's the Presidential Succession Act 1947 under the provision of the constitution that Congress can determine who shall act as president.
Also see this from the House judiciary committee:
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju96287.000/hju96287_0.htm#0
Be interesting to hear Sunak's or Javid's resignation speeches in the extremely unlikely event he tries to brazen this out.
Not that I want to defend him too much.
He actually wasn’t very good.
Non-idiots mostly weren't invited to serve in Johnson's Cabinet. Any non-idiots who were invited, refused, because they weren't idiots.
It was always going to go like this.
So, Javid and Sunak. Wonder if this means Sunak still wants it. I'm not claiming great prescience, but I did say at the weekend I thought there was an opportunity for a non-front runner Minister to resign and catapult themselves back into the race.
Johnson 99% (top politician)
Blair 98% (highest non-Tory)
Corbyn 97% (highest non-PM)
Hancock 97% (highest Con non-PM)
Patel 94% (highest Cabinet member)
Starmer 92%
Sunak 92%
Javid 89%
Truss 66%
Davey 49%
Wallace 37%
Mordaunt 35%
Tugendhat 19%
I presume you mean the hairnet thing? Awful. Ugly. Dreadful.
I have seen some Irish Tweed hats and I am very tempted to get one
If he did go for a platform like that he'd accompany it with spending cuts.
We are up to six already. And that's with needing to resign to do it.
It's over.
Barely known.
Someone will front. Probably Johnson.
His pathetic critique of Nick Boles was another example.
He would be praising Oswald Mosley up to the eyeballs if his chip from his schooldays about Etonian/Wykehamist relations wasn’t an ever-present ghost in his life.
I’m imagining he got bowled a fast one in the goolies in the Winchester/Eton 8th eleven cricket for physical specimens made out of straw and never let it go.
- the only senior cabinet minister who has not yet confirmed their position is Nadhim Zahawi.
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1544393753082953728?cxt=HHwWgIC83fL75O4qAAAA
They rallied quickly, it seems. Disappointing.
"I have nothing to add. I cannot intrude on such personal grief"
And then sit down.
But unless BoJo announces his resignation and then goes off in a huff without an elected successor, he's on the hook for tomorrow's questions.
Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.
With the sole exception of Wallace, it seems they have all personally calculated they will not get jobs under any successor.
That’s incredibly damning.
Note the precise language of 25th Amendment, in particular Section 4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#:~:text=In case of the removal,Vice President shall become President.
Its politics, not Real Housewives of Westminster
All of them - save Wallace maybe, and for the moment Zahawi - have calculated they won’t get a job post-Boris.
It’s simply incredible how much shit is sitting in this u-bend.
And because he is a slimy worm.
the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
Which they have under the PSA 1947. Which allows bumping.
Possibly it shouldn't under the terms of the Constitution, but it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Walpole_(D41)
Fate:
Damaged by mine on 6 January 1945
Sold for scrapping on 8 February 1945
Or a reference to Horace Walpole’s career as a writer ?
I think he should go now in the hope that the whole government is replaced by something bettter that can allow the UK to do what it can to help Ukraine in an effective way rather than by photo op.
I really struggle to understand the psychology. Only a few are actually HYUFD-style stark raving mad.
"Who's he?", the masses asked.
They are pretending that nobody remembers.
The guy is an absolute charlatan.
Only the LOTO can call a VONC and it be guaranteed to be debated and voted on.
So.... let's just make something up and say Johnson refuses to resign and replaces the cabinet members who have resigned. Unless the 1922 committee can change the rules, the only final way is a Parliamentary vote.
So the 'leader' of the Con rebels (and I'll make something ELSE up and just say 'Hunt') approaches Starmer.
Hunt wants a VONC, which he guarantees he and 100 others will support.
Starmer wants a VONC.
So it seems a no brainer. But its what happens afterwards.
Hunt would want a VONC followed by an alternative Conservative government, led by him, WITHOUT a General Election.
Starmer would want a VONC followed by a GE.
Hunt can't get the VONC even called to debate without Starmer. Starmer won't accept tabling a VONC unless it leads to a GE.
Hunt *might say* he'd agree to a GE, but Starmer has no way of guaranteeing that. Starmer could call the VONC, win it, and then ask for a GE only for Hunt to shaft him over and stop one.
Starmer, though he DOES have a role in this latest drama, almost certainly won't do anything. He can't get what he wants, and no alternative Conservative would feel happy giving him a GE (except Rory Stewart, who isn't here anymore).
Not sure I'd trust them to mop the floors properly, mind.
Raab is quite dim, and is likely caught in some headlights somewhere. He too will not survive Johnson.
Truss is a WTF.
She had her chance and she’s blown it.
She’ll be another casualty therefore.
We are going to see quite a lot of the fatberg dislodged, I think.
Whatever he doesn't understand (and there's a lot), Boris has always understood raw human power and schoolboy cruelty.
https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1544402133029617667
@MrHarryCole
Sounds like plan is to appoint a new Chancellor this evening.
What a mess.
Hearing that Steve Barclay could replace Sajid Javid as health secretary. Source tells me this is likely
There's also discussions in No 10 about Liz Truss as the new chancellor but nothing firm on that front yet
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544400487180603399
The only way he's going is via losing a new vote of no confidence. The normal rules of politics don't apply to him.
Interesting from a Remaining Tory. Perhaps the Future could be Orange.
So many 2nd voters - such as Keir Starmer - like to pretend this would not have happened. Those Remainers that do now belatedly realise this want us to conveniently forget all about their demands for a 2nd referendum. Utter Wankers
However, the good that Boris did then is now seriously outweighed by his many flaws and unforced errors. He has to go