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A Johnson 2022 exit is now the betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295

    You asked "has the sexual revolution since the 1960s been beneficial for society as a whole" and I answered "yes".

    You don't agree and that is your right. But the majority of people in the UK do not have to explain themselves to repressed people like yourself. There isn't going to be any rolling back of the sexual revolution no matter how puce you get. Perhaps moving to a more backwards country would make you happier? Saudi Arabia perhaps - they don't let women drive and behead gayers. You'll be right at home.
    I don't agree with micktrain but I don't know why your first assumption is that he's "repressed".
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849

    Christ, guns everywhere and a return to back street abortions. America is in a grim place. Especially as a majority of voters don't want either policy.
    I guess the lesson is don't have an eighteenth century rule book that is almost impossible to change unless you want to live in the eighteenth century.

    Eighteenth? Surely they're looking to live in a century older than that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    One thing about the leaked draft of the abortion decision -the published opinion is very similar to the leak.
    That pretty well confirms the motive for leaking it was ensuring that the slightly less hardline conservatives on the bench didn't try to water down the outright repeal of the right to abortion which it represents.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,557
    So, have any Tory MPs gone on the record yet to say "Mea culpa. We should have binned the PM when we had the chance...."?

    If any have - kudos. You fucking muppet.

    For the rest - you fucking muppets.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Scott_xP said:
    This is about a rumour that some Tories might write to the 1922 asking for a change in the leadership vote rules, padded out with a few quotes from on-the-record malcontents. It's not news, it's idle speculation.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    Scott_xP said:
    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538
    I know he's not facing the new ball, but Overton is showing the openers how it's done.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    micktrain said:

    i wasnt talking about criminalising homosexuality mate for example roll back of the sexual revolution could mean for example getting rid of Pride month
    As far as I know there's no law forcing you to celebrate Pride month. Shame you're of a mindset that means that people can enjoy only things you agree with.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,387

    Eighteenth? Surely they're looking to live in a century older than that.
    Perhaps we can sell them JRM...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,644
    micktrain said:

    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    They have to try.

    It's the difference between not much chance with a new leader and no chance at all with the current one.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?

    As long as it is constitutional to do so then yes.

    The federal government could pass a law to encode Roe if it so chose.

    The current Supreme Court would strike it down for spurious reasons obviously (see their gutting of the Civil Rights Act) but yes, the Federal Gov can overrule.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Phew, avoided the follow-on.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    Perhaps we can sell them JRM...
    A free transfer would be excellent
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    edited June 2022

    Christ, guns everywhere and a return to back street abortions. America is in a grim place. Especially as a majority of voters don't want either policy...

    The abortion decision will likely lead to something worse than just a return to the pre-70s regime.

    There are movements in some states for full legal fetal personhood. That would make all pregnant women second class citizens liable to state surveillance, and potential punishment should anything happen to their pregnancy.

    We'll see a lot more of this sort of thing:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/18/opinion/poolaw-miscarriage.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Andy_JS said:

    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?

    No, that’s what the Supreme Court is for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    The dems need to start planning for a constitutional amendment on this, America can't be governed by a document written 250 years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,079
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?

    Not without majorities of both and 2/3 of Senate and President's agreement if Supreme Court agrees it is a state decision, plus most states
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    I'm not sure whether to be glad or sorry that we've avoided the follow-on ! Might have given the openers the chance to redeem themselves!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?

    A federal bill granting the right to abortion could be tabled, but contentious legislation can only pass if the party proposing controls the White House, a majority in the House of Representatives and sixty votes in the Senate. The latter is the obstacle. IIRC the Democrats have a bare majority in the Senate on the Vice President's casting vote (and I believe that one of the Democrat senators has strong anti-abortion views in any case.) Any number of votes short of the supermajority and the standing orders of the Senate effectively allow the opposing party to block any bill by filibuster.

    There is, consequently, no chance of abortion rights legislation making it onto the federal statute book.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    pigeon said:

    This is about a rumour that some Tories might write to the 1922 asking for a change in the leadership vote rules, padded out with a few quotes from on-the-record malcontents. It's not news, it's idle speculation.
    The ‘22 aren’t going to change their rules, it would open up Pandora’s Box.

    The MPs had their chance and didn’t take it. Now it’s up to the Cabinet, or the “Men in Grey Suits” to effect a leadership change.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    edited June 2022
    pigeon said:

    This is about a rumour that some Tories might write to the 1922 asking for a change in the leadership vote rules, padded out with a few quotes from on-the-record malcontents. It's not news, it's idle speculation.
    Seems Boris supporters are attempting to get their place people elected to the 1922 committee in July but this is being resisted by the 148

    I would say the change of rule by the 1922 is not idle speculation but very real
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739
    edited June 2022
    MaxPB said:

    The dems need to start planning for a constitutional amendment on this, America can't be governed by a document written 250 years ago.

    Well it can be governed by a document written 250 years ago (it currently is) - but it really shouldn't be.

  • tlg86 said:

    I know he's not facing the new ball, but Overton is showing the openers how it's done.

    It was less than 12 overs old when he came in!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,079
    edited June 2022

    Yes, the decadent west will collapse. The rodina will succeed because it is promoting traditional family values like genocide and rape as a weapon of war.
    Abortion is legal in Russia, only in Poland now in Europe and the Anglosphere is it mostly illegal and soon some US states
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Can the US Senate and House overrule decisions by individual states?

    In some things, not in others.
    The boundaries between state and federal powers are broadly defined by the Constitution, and have been fleshed out by decisions of the Supreme Court, which adjudicates those boundaries.

    As an example, states make laws to set their own taxes (federal taxes are set by the federal government).
    But the federal government potentially can challenge some of those laws if it can demonstrate they interfere with inter-state commerce, which is a matter for the federal government. (Note that doesn't, for example prevent states having different levels of sales tax.) It's complicated.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,321
    edited June 2022
    micktrain said:

    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    Some more, significant cash donations delivered via the relatives of former KGB officials living in Surrey might come in handy though, please.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,135
    One worth noting about the stay away/come home debate:

    No10 chose this. They picked the by-election date. They knew he’d be away at CHOGM/G7/Nato.

    The plan was always for the PM to be swimming in Kigali while the Tories were drowning back home.

    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1540362388192518145
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,364
    HYUFD said:

    Not without majorities of both and 2/3 of Senate and President's agreement if Supreme Court agrees it is a state decision, plus most states
    And for as long as senators in the smallest 17 states have a veto, hard to see how that happens.

    Maybe businesses moving out of those states would concentrate minds.

    Or the Lysistrata approach.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited June 2022

    So, have any Tory MPs gone on the record yet to say "Mea culpa. We should have binned the PM when we had the chance...."?

    If any have - kudos. You fucking muppet.

    For the rest - you fucking muppets.

    What about those deluded fools who voted for him in the first place? Have they declared their mea culpae* yet?

    *Or whatever the plural is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    micktrain said:

    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    Seems Boris supporters are attempting to get their place people elected to the 1922 committee in July but this is being resisted by the 148

    I would say the change of rule by the 1922 is not idle speculation but very real
    There are so many on the payroll that the electorate must be small. And overwhelmingly anti-Boris, one would have thought.
    However. They just voted to keep him.
    On what grounds should they vote again?
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    Andy_JS said:

    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    not in the midst of inflation and a recession
  • What about those deluded fools who voted for him in the first place? Have they declared their mea culpae* yet?

    *Or whatever the plural is.
    Nostra culpa?

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    dixiedean said:

    There are so many on the payroll that the electorate must be small. And overwhelmingly anti-Boris, one would have thought.
    However. They just voted to keep him.
    On what grounds should they vote again?
    Resignation of cabinet minister and shocking by election results
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    kinabalu said:

    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739
    Sandpit said:

    The ‘22 aren’t going to change their rules, it would open up Pandora’s Box.

    The MPs had their chance and didn’t take it. Now it’s up to the Cabinet, or the “Men in Grey Suits” to effect a leadership change.
    And that isn't going to happen because most of them will be on the backbenches as soon as the next leader is elected.

    Equally Bozo won't go - because that simply isn't his style - if it was he would have left last Autumn having declared Brexit done and Covid dealt with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    A free transfer would be excellent
    A mandatory transfer even better.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    There are so many on the payroll that the electorate must be small. And overwhelmingly anti-Boris, one would have thought.
    However. They just voted to keep him.
    On what grounds should they vote again?
    Should the Commons' privileges committee report conclude that he misled the House, that could be used as reasonable grounds to have another go.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    We could replace Pride Month with Shame Month.

    That would please some folks.

    That's one way of getting the PM to bugger off.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited June 2022
    MaxPB said:

    However fucked up the UK seems, I'm thankful that we're nothing like America.

    Boris is Trump-lite, though.
    And Brexit is essentially MAGA.

    But yes, thank fuck the UK has thus far avoided much of the abortion lunacy, critical race theory, obscene political funding, political judge appointments, gun nuttery, and the opiate crisis.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    eek said:

    Well it can be governed by a document written 250 years ago (it currently is) - but it really shouldn't be.

    How on earth will they get a amendment passed when each state has two senators whatever the size and the filibuster seems never to be removable?

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,321
    Andy_JS said:

    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    His FPN is only a week or two away. Lisa Nandy was excellent on WATO at lunchtime.
  • Christ, guns everywhere and a return to back street abortions. America is in a grim place. Especially as a majority of voters don't want either policy.
    I guess the lesson is don't have an eighteenth century rule book that is almost impossible to change unless you want to live in the eighteenth century.

    America demonstrating unequivocally why a "written constitution" is not all its defenders crack it up to being.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    So, have any Tory MPs gone on the record yet to say "Mea culpa. We should have binned the PM when we had the chance...."?

    If any have - kudos. You fucking muppet.

    For the rest - you fucking muppets.

    No cabinet member has followed Dowden yet. Bad sign, one's not enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    They have to try.

    It's the difference between not much chance with a new leader and no chance at all with the current one.
    And quite possibly the difference between a loss at the general election and a wipeout.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    This could be good news for the Democrats wrt the mid-term elections. It will probably galvanise their voters slightly more than GOP voters.
  • tlg86 said:

    I know he's not facing the new ball, but Overton is showing the openers how it's done.

    At only 12 overs old the window for "not the new ball" seems to have been moved very far for Overton.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    Boris is Trump-lite, though.
    And Brexit is essentially MAGA.

    But yes, thank fuck the UK has thus far avoided much of the abortion lunacy, critical race theory, obscene political funding, political judge appointments, gun nuttery, and the opiate crisis.
    difference beween boris and trump is i dont think boris believes half the stuff he says...res really a part of the establishmnet whereas Trump is more of an outsider
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,135
    Exclusive

    Tory whips are plotting to push pro-Boris MPs onto the 1922 Committee Executive in elections expected next month.

    Would help block a rule change to allow another leadership challenge. The 50-odd PPSs will be told to back the pro-PM ticket. Story w/ @christopherhope.

    Election for the 18 senior roles on the 1922 is one of the next big battles. Johnson is protected for a year from another leadership challenge. But that rule can change and it is those 18 people who decide.

    Other bits of intel in our full story over here. Inc Downing St accepting they won’t try to replace chairman Sir Graham Brady. And grumbling already over whips’ plan to meddle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/24/boris-johnsons-whips-plotting-block-attempt-change-1922-committee/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    Nostra culpa?

    Sadly my schooling was pretty primitive.
    I have zero Latin and even worse Greek.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    Resignation of cabinet minister and shocking by election results
    We could have a vote every month in that case.
    Not a great way to run a Party. Let alone a government.
    One thing I don't get is why the vote happened the next day? It's almost as if it was designed so nobody thought through their vote.
    You wouldn't have a GE or referendum like that.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    dixiedean said:

    There are so many on the payroll that the electorate must be small. And overwhelmingly anti-Boris, one would have thought.
    However. They just voted to keep him.
    On what grounds should they vote again?
    There are no grounds unless the 22 changes the rules mid-term. Cabinet resignations hold more hope I think.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    David Bereit, who founded 40 Days for Life, a grassroots faith-based effort with prayer and fasting campaigns to end abortion, could not stop crying.

    He had not been able to sleep, having just landed from a red eye from the California March for Life, wondering what the news would be. When he saw the ruling, he called his wife, and she wept. They called their children. For years they had traveled as a family across the country, and the world for the cause.

    NY Times blog
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Stocky said:

    No cabinet member has followed Dowden yet. Bad sign, one's not enough.
    Maybe there’s one lining themselves up for 6pm or 10pm news tonight

    Or maybe Dowden is a 2022 James Purnell, who hurt no-one but himself.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,553
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive

    Tory whips are plotting to push pro-Boris MPs onto the 1922 Committee Executive in elections expected next month.

    Would help block a rule change to allow another leadership challenge. The 50-odd PPSs will be told to back the pro-PM ticket. Story w/ @christopherhope.

    Election for the 18 senior roles on the 1922 is one of the next big battles. Johnson is protected for a year from another leadership challenge. But that rule can change and it is those 18 people who decide.

    Other bits of intel in our full story over here. Inc Downing St accepting they won’t try to replace chairman Sir Graham Brady. And grumbling already over whips’ plan to meddle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/24/boris-johnsons-whips-plotting-block-attempt-change-1922-committee/

    This could backfire badly for Johnson. Backbenchers don't like this kind of meddling.

    Starmer will be on the beers tonight I think. Fantastic day for him.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751

    It was less than 12 overs old when he came in!
    And was changed by the umpires, so he was literally facing a new ball.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    Nigelb said:

    One thing about the leaked draft of the abortion decision -the published opinion is very similar to the leak.
    That pretty well confirms the motive for leaking it was ensuring that the slightly less hardline conservatives on the bench didn't try to water down the outright repeal of the right to abortion which it represents.

    The judgement repeals nothing. It returns the USA to the same position as the UK. It's a matter for voters and legislators. Works OK here. It's called democracy. It seems to me that in the US people have been paying far too much attention to litigating and far to little to voting. And over moral matters far too many people on all sides think only one view is rational or possible. They are wrong.

    If only the SC would do the same with guns. Absolutely a matter for voters. New York and Wyoming are not in the same position.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive

    Tory whips are plotting to push pro-Boris MPs onto the 1922 Committee Executive in elections expected next month.

    Would help block a rule change to allow another leadership challenge. The 50-odd PPSs will be told to back the pro-PM ticket. Story w/ @christopherhope.

    Election for the 18 senior roles on the 1922 is one of the next big battles. Johnson is protected for a year from another leadership challenge. But that rule can change and it is those 18 people who decide.

    Other bits of intel in our full story over here. Inc Downing St accepting they won’t try to replace chairman Sir Graham Brady. And grumbling already over whips’ plan to meddle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/24/boris-johnsons-whips-plotting-block-attempt-change-1922-committee/

    Is that not likely to backfire ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited June 2022
    micktrain said:

    difference beween boris and trump is i dont think boris believes half the stuff he says...res really a part of the establishmnet whereas Trump is more of an outsider
    They are both, essentially, sociopathic entertainers who believe if you shout (or guffaw) loud enough you can make the real world conform to your inner visions.

    The simularities are eerie, right down to the hair-as-visual-branding.

    Trump seems more loyal to his family though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,811
    MaxPB said:

    However fucked up the UK seems, I'm thankful that we're nothing like America.

    Yep, definitely. They are close to gone. Some of the 'cw' tone & techniques will be coming soon to an election near us though. We need to reject it. Hope and pray we will.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    This could be good news for the Democrats wrt the mid-term elections. It will probably galvanise their voters slightly more than GOP voters.

    GOP will now be able to run on the carrot of a federal abortion ban. I think the motivation differential is a wash.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,573
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive

    Tory whips are plotting to push pro-Boris MPs onto the 1922 Committee Executive in elections expected next month.

    Would help block a rule change to allow another leadership challenge. The 50-odd PPSs will be told to back the pro-PM ticket. Story w/ @christopherhope.

    Election for the 18 senior roles on the 1922 is one of the next big battles. Johnson is protected for a year from another leadership challenge. But that rule can change and it is those 18 people who decide.

    Other bits of intel in our full story over here. Inc Downing St accepting they won’t try to replace chairman Sir Graham Brady. And grumbling already over whips’ plan to meddle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/24/boris-johnsons-whips-plotting-block-attempt-change-1922-committee/

    Why does a group with approximately 200 members require a representative committee with 18 members? I would've thought seven was plenty!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited June 2022

    Nostra culpa?

    First declension like mensa, and feminine. Plainly the possessive pertains to more than one person, so 'their blame'. But what I'm not sure is if the blame is singular or plural. On the principle that people vote for different reasons, I suppose we want 'their blames', so suae culpae (strictly: in that sentence it is the object, so should be suas culpas - or just put in quotation marks to insulate things ... which also breaks the subject to object element, so we can then then have "nostrae culpae" ...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    micktrain said:

    thats not an answer...do you care about society pal
    Stop digging your hole, already plenty deep enough - pal.

    IF you don't have a clue who JackW is, then somehow am NOT surprised.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 913

    Silicon Valley started disinvesting from southern states when the latter passed laws obsessing about trans people in toilets.

    I can't see Apple expanding its Austin campus any further now that Texas has banned abortion (without exceptions for rape or incest).

    It's two Americas. I guess the question is whether they formalise it.

    As he died to make men holy, let us die to set women free?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    How on earth will they get a amendment passed when each state has two senators whatever the size and the filibuster seems never to be removable?

    Democracy is only sortable by a democratic voting population. There is no other back door route to the democratic process. The SC certainly isn't.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    Really? Seems she cannot even compose an original tweet!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942

    Why does a group with approximately 200 members require a representative committee with 18 members? I would've thought seven was plenty!
    Tories love bureaucracy?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,853
    I'm not sure European politicians sticking their oar in is a good idea. This is from the Belgian PM:

    https://www.twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1540340020644659202

    @alexanderdecroo
    Very concerned about implications of @USSupremeCourt decision on #RoeVWade and the signal it sends to the world.

    Banning abortion never leads to fewer abortions, only to more unsafe abortions.

    Belgium will continue to work with other countries to advance #SRHR everywhere.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Tories love bureaucracy?
    Perhaps 18 is the magic number needed to properly trash a fine restaurant?

    OR the Tory Party?
  • Unpopular said:

    As he died to make men holy, let us die to set women free?
    Or go the whole Jurassic Park route.

    Dr. Ian Malcolm: God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs.

    Dr. Ellie Sattler: Dinosaurs eat man. Woman inherits the earth.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Really? Seems she cannot even compose an original tweet!
    A single post that inadvertently encapsulates the left. The real world exists outside of Twitter. "Winning" the internet for a day doesn't mean anything. Retweets and likes are not votes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited June 2022
    Boris is going nowhere.
    He’s going to hobble the 1922 with place-men, and bring down the entire Tory temple with him in ‘24.

    Only the Cabinet can stop him, in my opinion.
    But they have been specifically selected for their craven support and stupidity.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    Sadly my schooling was pretty primitive.
    I have zero Latin and even worse Greek.
    As Ben Jonson said of Shakespeare.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    edited June 2022

    I'm not sure European politicians sticking their oar in is a good idea. This is from the Belgian PM:

    https://www.twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1540340020644659202

    @alexanderdecroo
    Very concerned about implications of @USSupremeCourt decision on #RoeVWade and the signal it sends to the world.

    Banning abortion never leads to fewer abortions, only to more unsafe abortions.

    Belgium will continue to work with other countries to advance #SRHR everywhere.

    Indeed, hopefully our government stays out of it publicly. Let's let America get its house in order without any idiotic sniping or point scoring.
  • MaxPB said:

    A single post that inadvertently encapsulates the left. The real world exists outside of Twitter. "Winning" the internet for a day doesn't mean anything. Retweets and likes are not votes.
    The venal and narcissistic nature of Twitter is summed up best in their notion of getting "ratioed".

    I come here to have interesting discussions and back and forths with people, replies are interesting parts of discussions and help you learn from others viewpoints.

    That replies are considered a bad thing unlike mindless retweets or likes on Twitter just sums up everything that is wrong with that "community".
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    kinabalu said:

    Yep, definitely. They are close to gone. Some of the 'cw' tone & techniques will be coming soon to an election near us though. We need to reject it. Hope and pray we will.
    What on earth does “close to gone” mean.
    Get a grip.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Have umpires genuinely forgotten how to rule on stumpings from square leg?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    eek said:

    Well it can be governed by a document written 250 years ago (it currently is) - but it really shouldn't be.
    Said ancient document contains within it all the mechanisms needed to permit modernisation, through adoption of new amendments and repeal of existing ones. The issue being, of course, that the barriers to passing an amendment are quite deliberately set so very high that one can presently envisage almost no circumstances under which this could be done.

    I went and checked: since an amendment fixing the voting age at 18 was passed in 1971, only one further amendment has been added, a technical measure concerning congressional pay. There's probably nothing sufficiently anodyne that might still need adding to the document that wouldn't attract the necessary minority of blocking votes to veto its inclusion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,751
    edited June 2022

    How on earth will they get a amendment passed when each state has two senators whatever the size and the filibuster seems never to be removable?

    Even when they pass amendments, they still have to be ratified by the states.
    Look at the history of the Equal Rights Amendment. Approved by both Houses of Congress in 1972.. still to be ratified:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    They are both, essentially, sociopathic entertainers who believe if you shout (or guffaw) loud enough you can make the real world conform to your inner visions.

    The simularities are eerie, right down to the hair-as-visual-branding.

    Trump seems more loyal to his family though.
    yes he does have that going for him
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Sadly my schooling was pretty primitive.
    I have zero Latin and even worse Greek.
    ... on reflection, simpler to find a workaround!

    ... made their professions of 'mea culpa' yet? would do nicely.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    I'm not sure European politicians sticking their oar in is a good idea. This is from the Belgian PM:

    https://www.twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1540340020644659202

    @alexanderdecroo
    Very concerned about implications of @USSupremeCourt decision on #RoeVWade and the signal it sends to the world.

    Banning abortion never leads to fewer abortions, only to more unsafe abortions.

    Belgium will continue to work with other countries to advance #SRHR everywhere.

    The SC has not banned abortions. Voters and legislators do so. I think they are wrong to do so but democracy is what it is. On other issues liberals tend to like democracy but not on this one. Enlightenment does not consist of thinking only one view is possible.

  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    Boris is going nowhere.
    He’s going to hobble the 1922 with place-men, and bring down the entire Tory temple with him in ‘24.

    Only the Cabinet can stop him, in my opinion.
    But they have been specifically selected for their craven support and stupidity.

    let them go to a landslide defeat in 2024...a faragist type party will then emerge from the ashes
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Alistair said:

    GOP will now be able to run on the carrot of a federal abortion ban. I think the motivation differential is a wash.
    Disagree, as many of the less-extreme pro-lifers will be satisfied with banning abortion in their own bailiwick. But we shall see.

    Also, differential views with respect to age & education will have an impact, in that many suburban moderates who are highly likely to vote in midterm general elections MAY be persuaded to support Dems on this issue. Plus it has potential for motivating younger, less-likely voters to actually turn out.

    On other side, suspect that wish to expand upon pro-life legal momentum will have LESS impact in motivating less-likely pro-life voters to turn out this Fall.

    Will be interesting to see IF this is how it actually pans out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,942
    I see we are waiting for the Privileges Committee. Here is a list of things waited for.

    1) The publication of the Sue Gray report into Partygate.

    2) A decision by the police to fine Johnson over Partygate.

    3) The end of the police investigation into Partygate.

    4) The local elections.

    5) Johnson’s Commons response to the Partygate.

    6) The end of the platinum jubilee celebrations.

    7) The Wakefield, and Tiverton and Honiton byelections.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Alistair said:

    GOP will now be able to run on the carrot of a federal abortion ban. I think the motivation differential is a wash.
    Turnout should be increased, which is a good thing. US turnout is usually terrible.
  • algarkirk said:

    The SC has not banned abortions. Voters and legislators do so. I think they are wrong to do so but democracy is what it is. On other issues liberals tend to like democracy but not on this one. Enlightenment does not consist of thinking only one view is possible.

    I am pro-democracy, and think Parliament should be able to make any law it chooses.

    I can also simultaneously think that its wrong to make other people's bodies subject to laws, rather than other people choosing what to do with their own bodies.

    Its possible to have more than one point of view. It is also possible to think that some points of view are reprehensible.

    I'd rather abortions never needed to happen, but if they do, then they ought to happen safely and legally, and nobody should be compelled by law to carry a pregnancy they don't want to carry - even if I think its right that Parliament ought to be able to decide that democratically (and I'm glad it has done).

    Since America has a written constitution, the 14th amendment should apply to women and not just men.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,156
    micktrain said:

    let them go to a landslide defeat in 2024...a faragist type party will then emerge from the ashes
    I would imagine only Farage and Putin believe that, buddy.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,135
    edited June 2022

    Boris is going nowhere.
    He’s going to hobble the 1922 with place-men, and bring down the entire Tory temple with him in ‘24.

    Only the Cabinet can stop him, in my opinion.
    But they have been specifically selected for their craven support and stupidity.

    Which does make it all the more remarkable that one of the most craven and stupid actually quit this morning

    The "stupid" wall is crumbling...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    micktrain said:

    let them go to a landslide defeat in 2024...a faragist type party will then emerge from the ashes
    Lead by someone who believes in the sanctity of marriage?

    Or is it just homosexual having sex that bothers you?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    edited June 2022
    algarkirk said:

    The SC has returned the matter to where it belongs: voters and legislators. Exactly where is lies in the UK. In that sense it is not a conservative judgement but a liberal pro-democracy one.

    Shame they have not done the same over guns.

    The people cannot be trusted to make decisions about guns, they night take away someone's toys.

    Human life? Thats much simpler.
This discussion has been closed.