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A Johnson 2022 exit is now the betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

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  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    rcs1000 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott Aaronson

    Just last night my wife, Dana Moshkovitz, presented a proposal at the STOC business meeting to host STOC’2024 at a beautiful family-friendly resort outside Austin. The proposal failed, in part because of the argument that, if a pregnant STOC attendee faced a life-threatening medical condition, Texas doctors might choose to let her die, or the attendee might be charged with murder for having a miscarriage. In other words: Texas (and indeed, half the US) will apparently soon be like Donetsk or North Korea, dangerous for Blue Americans to visit even for just a few days.

    (Symposium on Theory of Computing)

    The not even to save life thing is extraordinarily vindictive and concerning. You can see travel insurers excluding Texas for women altogether

    There’s some hyperbole there re blue American safety, but it won’t take long for some manifestly unjust death to happen (or some MD gets jailed for ignoring the law to save a life) and then there will be fireworks.

    It is hyperbole - but check out this story from yesterday

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/woman-miscarriage-malta-trip-abortion-85582801
    Oh absolutely, that’s rather the point I was making. It’s a horrible thing pushed by awful people.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited June 2022

    micktrain said:

    JACK_W said:

    micktrain said:

    JACK_W said:

    micktrain said:

    Selebian said:

    micktrain said:

    Leon said:

    Significant civil strife is now more likely than not, in America

    I don’t see how else this ends. It is a fight to the death

    to be fair its time parts of the sexual revolution were rolled back and its got to start somewhere
    Ok, I've already made an arse of myself once today, by taking a joke as serious comment, so help me out here - should there be a :wink: at the end of that statement?

    If not, which bits, exactly?
    is total sexual freedom beneficial for society or not...answer me that...not talking about for women or men but society as a whole
    Broadly speaking what consenting adults do is no business of society, state or church.
    but is it beneficial for society as a whole...you havent answered my question so i think we can take it you can agree its negative for society as a whole even if beneficial for some individuals
    I'm sorry I wasn't plain enough.

    It's got f*ck all to do with society and is therefor totally beneficial to society.
    thats not an answer...do you care about society pal
    Who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families.
    So saith the blessed Margaret, in her Sermon on the Mound in Edinburgh.

    (Just in passing, and no observation of mine on MT's speech either way, but I don't know who coined that name for her speech. But if it was an Edinburgh journalist, that was in the full knowledge of the local equivalent of Speaker's Corner also being on the Mound. Especially notorious for a really ferocious Protestant Unionist speaker denouncing what he didn't like. IIRC he set up a paramilitary group who fought the BUF because they didn't like Mosley's progressive views on certain matters ...)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution

    Dunno if you are a Russian bot, but this seems to me entirely plausible. Women can be much more socially conservative than men, see female genital mutilation, which is often preserved by the opinions of women (men tend not to care, or be anti)

    The same process is known to defending rape lawyers, who will always try to pack a jury with women, as they are more judgemental (“the slut was drunk and asking for it”)
    Women under 45 are more strongly pro-Choice than men under 45. Above 60, it's the other way around.
    it will be women who rollback the sexual revolution when they decide they are no longer benefitting from it...maybe they are sick of rough casual sex and men who wont commit or even working in large corporations for 60 hours per week to afford a house...at that point the whole sexual revolution collapses
    Are you another @Leon incarnation, trying out some speculative fiction ?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    The Dalmatian coast is lovely but I’ve never been to MN sadly. Would love to go.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution

    Dunno if you are a Russian bot, but this seems to me entirely plausible. Women can be much more socially conservative than men, see female genital mutilation, which is often preserved by the opinions of women (men tend not to care, or be anti)

    The same process is known to defending rape lawyers, who will always try to pack a jury with women, as they are more judgemental (“the slut was drunk and asking for it”)
    Women under 45 are more strongly pro-Choice than men under 45. Above 60, it's the other way around.
    it will be women who rollback the sexual revolution when they decide they are no longer benefitting from it...maybe they are sick of rough casual sex and men who wont commit or even working in large corporations for 60 hours per week to afford a house...at that point the whole sexual revolution collapses
    You do know that they aren't obliged to have rough casual sex? Women aren't forced to swipe left on Tinder.
    you have the classic "goldman sachs" type view of seeing us as a society of atomised indviduals...have you never heard of social pressure....that "goldman sachs" type view of people as atomised individuals has done tremendous harm
    While the "micktrain" worldview of seeking to control the behaviour of consenting adults has been utterly without problems, right?
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    Presumably it was the hardcore pornography regularly consumed by Catholic priests that caused them to bugger to the choirboys.

    Or would you like to present some actual evidence?
    so you think hardcore internet porn is a societal positive...ok its a view i suppose
    No, I'm asking you for evidence that the availability of pornography has increased the amount of sexual violence.

    And my point is that a group that very definitely didn't have access to hardcore Internet porn, seemed to have no problems in engaging in an awful lot of sexual violence.
    mmm problem is that argument starts to veer into homophobia a bit though doesnt it.....are you suggesting homosexuals are inherently more inclined to abuse???
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited June 2022

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    I was so proud of being able to get the War and Peace redactle in just two guesses.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1540359619826126848

    "I think it's a big step backwards"

    PM Boris Johnson says he's "always believed in a woman's right to choose" after US Supreme Court overturned a 50-year-old ruling that legalised abortion in the country

    Remember when the Brexiteers said it was terrible how Obama chimed in on Brexit? Crickets

    He was asked a question by a journalist. What answer could have have given that you would have approved of?
    He have a good answer - I am just pointing out the hypocrisy from Brexiteers. Obama was asked a question too.
    Sorry, I missed this post.

    Then it might have been good for you to say: "That was a good reply. But remember when the Brexiteers ..."

    The problem with your post is that it seems to criticise Johnson on an essentially unrelated point. There was no way he could answer the question *without* either pulling ordure down onto himself, 'interfering' in US politics, or having people make stupid comments such as yours.

    For once he gave a clear, good answer.

    (I don't think I had any particular view on Obama's Brexit comment.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    One of the problems of posting more than 12 hours after a by-election result is it's usually been said, argued, rebutted, retracted and in any case some thing else has pushed it off the agenda.

    Three thoughts from me:

    First, a marvellous effort by the LDs to win Tiverton & Honiton. This wasn't a "gimme" given the seat hadn't been won even in 1997. It required what seems sometime to be taken for granted in terms of hard work but don't underestimate what's needed especially in the early days.

    One or two on here have sniped a little about Richard Foord but he's obviously worked his proverbials off and whle he and I both know the real work of trying to hold the seat starts now it's still an incredible achievement to come from third and achieve a swing only a whisker short of 30%.

    Second, in Wakefield, as we saw in Australia, the collapse of the centre-right didn't translate directly to a swing to the main opposition centre-left party. The third-placed Independent, about whom very little has been said, put up a solid performance and clearly while disillusioned Conservatives and anti-Conservative voters seem happy to coalesce around an LD candidate, the same isn't true for a Labour candidate and that's an issue for Starmer.

    Third, looking at Tiverton & Honiton, I was struck by the way the Conservative candidate was controlled by her Agent and by presumably CCHQ staffers. Helen Hurford looked photogenic enough and I'm sure she could engage with voters but she wasn't given the chance. The farce of her hiding in a side room, coming out for the result and disappearing without a word was ridiculous.

    I don't know why the Conservative Party wants such tight control of its by-election candidate - has she been "promised" another go at the next GE contingent on her playing her part now? It might have been better if she'd been allowed to speak for yourself, acknowledge the problems and issues people have with the Prime Minister and argue she'd be in a better position to get help than an Opposition MP.

    I agree. If anything the Tories would probably do slightly better at by-elections with maverick candidates able to say whatever they thought about any subject even if it wasn't the party line.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    EPG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott Aaronson

    Just last night my wife, Dana Moshkovitz, presented a proposal at the STOC business meeting to host STOC’2024 at a beautiful family-friendly resort outside Austin. The proposal failed, in part because of the argument that, if a pregnant STOC attendee faced a life-threatening medical condition, Texas doctors might choose to let her die, or the attendee might be charged with murder for having a miscarriage. In other words: Texas (and indeed, half the US) will apparently soon be like Donetsk or North Korea, dangerous for Blue Americans to visit even for just a few days.

    (Symposium on Theory of Computing)

    The not even to save life thing is extraordinarily vindictive and concerning. You can see travel insurers excluding Texas for women altogether

    There’s some hyperbole there re blue American safety, but it won’t take long for some manifestly unjust death to happen (or some MD gets jailed for ignoring the law to save a life) and then there will be fireworks.

    It is hyperbole - but check out this story from yesterday

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/woman-miscarriage-malta-trip-abortion-85582801
    Well, yes, 30 states will more likely end up like Ireland, which imported abortions happily until a woman died.
    Exported surely?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    .

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    I was so proud of being able to get the War and Peace redactle in just two guesses.
    My worst was yesterday's: 153. I was all around it, knew it was about illnesses, but just couldn't find the correct words.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    The Dalmatian coast is lovely but I’ve never been to MN sadly. Would love to go.
    It’s gone to the dogs a bit.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    Nice, have not tried yet - my wife blitzed through it in about 30 ish.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution

    Dunno if you are a Russian bot, but this seems to me entirely plausible. Women can be much more socially conservative than men, see female genital mutilation, which is often preserved by the opinions of women (men tend not to care, or be anti)

    The same process is known to defending rape lawyers, who will always try to pack a jury with women, as they are more judgemental (“the slut was drunk and asking for it”)
    Women under 45 are more strongly pro-Choice than men under 45. Above 60, it's the other way around.
    it will be women who rollback the sexual revolution when they decide they are no longer benefitting from it...maybe they are sick of rough casual sex and men who wont commit or even working in large corporations for 60 hours per week to afford a house...at that point the whole sexual revolution collapses
    You do know that they aren't obliged to have rough casual sex? Women aren't forced to swipe left on Tinder.
    you have the classic "goldman sachs" type view of seeing us as a society of atomised indviduals...have you never heard of social pressure....that "goldman sachs" type view of people as atomised individuals has done tremendous harm
    While the "micktrain" worldview of seeking to control the behaviour of consenting adults has been utterly without problems, right?
    happy medium mate happy medium....society doesnt have to be saudi arabia nor the present day uk...there is a balance between outright sexual decadence and sexual repression
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    The Dalmatian coast is lovely but I’ve never been to MN sadly. Would love to go.
    I’ve done Croatia and Bosnia but Montenegro looks effing incredible. Think I’m going to do it

    Mountains, lakes, wild forest, and stunning Med coast. All in a place only TWO THIRDS THE SIZE OF WALES

    Ooof

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1540359619826126848

    "I think it's a big step backwards"

    PM Boris Johnson says he's "always believed in a woman's right to choose" after US Supreme Court overturned a 50-year-old ruling that legalised abortion in the country

    Remember when the Brexiteers said it was terrible how Obama chimed in on Brexit? Crickets

    He was asked a question by a journalist. What answer could have have given that you would have approved of?
    Others here have already criticised commentary on the decision - e.g. the EU, upthread. Johnson could have replied "none of my business - up to the American people". Now I don't think he should have, but it does feel as if some folk are saying that the only people who should comment on other nations' affairs are those we agree with.
    And if he had said: "None of my business," then people would have suggested he agreed with the decision, or was too cowardly to criticise it.

    Sometimes politicians can be criticised whatever answer they give. This is a classic example (and I think he gave a good answer).
    Yes, so do I, but that wasn't the point I was making.
    I understand the point you (and he) was making. It's just a rather stupid one, and seems designed only to criticise Boris for actually giving a straight answer for once.

    And it's funny how often some on the right (e.g. Leon) get accused of being Brexit obsessed, when the lefties on here seem more so!
    I wasn't criticising Boris though, I was criticising those on here who said that it's America's business and we shouldn't give an opinion. I don't agree with them.
    I haven't been on here much today (got man flu). Has anyone said that? Leon?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Overturning Roe puts the USA back to the position of every other nation in the world in that it becomes elected representatives decision whether or not abortion.
    I of course think it should be allowed but like SCOTUS I can't see anything in the US constitution about it

    Untrue, there are constitutions and constitutional courts that do set out the law for abortion, for instance Poland.
    Yes, but it’s not in the US Constitution.

    There were two issues with Roe v Wade, both of which have been debated before, namely:

    1. It took the decision out of the hands of elected representatives and,

    2. The legal decisions given for it were shaky.

    Much of the reason there has been a problem with it in the US is down to 1. If you believe in the right to abortion, then you should campaign for it and go through the democratic process. BTW, that same argument was often said to those who wanted Brexit.

    The most interesting part of the decision is actually Roberts voted for it. Given he tends to go with the flow on the most contentious issues, either he is pissed off with the leak / threats against the Justices or he’s decided the tide is flowing in the favour of the conservatives.

  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883
    Nigelb said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution

    Dunno if you are a Russian bot, but this seems to me entirely plausible. Women can be much more socially conservative than men, see female genital mutilation, which is often preserved by the opinions of women (men tend not to care, or be anti)

    The same process is known to defending rape lawyers, who will always try to pack a jury with women, as they are more judgemental (“the slut was drunk and asking for it”)
    Women under 45 are more strongly pro-Choice than men under 45. Above 60, it's the other way around.
    it will be women who rollback the sexual revolution when they decide they are no longer benefitting from it...maybe they are sick of rough casual sex and men who wont commit or even working in large corporations for 60 hours per week to afford a house...at that point the whole sexual revolution collapses
    Are you another @Leon incarnation, trying out some speculative fiction ?
    I was actually wondering who's alt this was!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    boulay said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    The Dalmatian coast is lovely but I’ve never been to MN sadly. Would love to go.
    It’s gone to the dogs a bit.
    Good in spots, still, I believe. Especially in coach class.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Jonny Bairstow!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited June 2022
    Bairstow, simply brilliant.
    With respect to David Herdson they chose the wrong candidate for last night's election
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    The Headingley crowd have got their money's worth today.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    tlg86 said:

    The Headingley crowd have got their money's worth today.

    yeah wish i was there
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1540359619826126848

    "I think it's a big step backwards"

    PM Boris Johnson says he's "always believed in a woman's right to choose" after US Supreme Court overturned a 50-year-old ruling that legalised abortion in the country

    Remember when the Brexiteers said it was terrible how Obama chimed in on Brexit? Crickets

    He was asked a question by a journalist. What answer could have have given that you would have approved of?
    He have a good answer - I am just pointing out the hypocrisy from Brexiteers. Obama was asked a question too.
    Sorry, I missed this post.

    Then it might have been good for you to say: "That was a good reply. But remember when the Brexiteers ..."

    The problem with your post is that it seems to criticise Johnson on an essentially unrelated point. There was no way he could answer the question *without* either pulling ordure down onto himself, 'interfering' in US politics, or having people make stupid comments such as yours.

    For once he gave a clear, good answer.

    (I don't think I had any particular view on Obama's Brexit comment.)
    The major criticism of Obama's comment at the time, as I recall, was not that he made it but that what he said was so obviously written for him by one of Cameron's team.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    rcs1000 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott Aaronson

    Just last night my wife, Dana Moshkovitz, presented a proposal at the STOC business meeting to host STOC’2024 at a beautiful family-friendly resort outside Austin. The proposal failed, in part because of the argument that, if a pregnant STOC attendee faced a life-threatening medical condition, Texas doctors might choose to let her die, or the attendee might be charged with murder for having a miscarriage. In other words: Texas (and indeed, half the US) will apparently soon be like Donetsk or North Korea, dangerous for Blue Americans to visit even for just a few days.

    (Symposium on Theory of Computing)

    The not even to save life thing is extraordinarily vindictive and concerning. You can see travel insurers excluding Texas for women altogether

    There’s some hyperbole there re blue American safety, but it won’t take long for some manifestly unjust death to happen (or some MD gets jailed for ignoring the law to save a life) and then there will be fireworks.

    It is hyperbole - but check out this story from yesterday

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/woman-miscarriage-malta-trip-abortion-85582801
    It's not hyperbole.
    Absolute abortion bans - which today's ruling allows, and which are likely in several states - completely remove personal autonomy with regard to pregnant women's medical choices.
    And it also turns every miscarriage into a potential criminal case.

    Calling it hyperbole is glossing over the reality of that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    Alright, chum. Calm it
    Chill fam. Not 6 o'clock here yet
    It is now.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    IF you can, find & read "Njegos [Njegoš]: Poet, Prince, Bishop" by Milovan Djilas [Đilas] perhaps the most notable Montenegrin of the 20th century, famous for his role as one of Tito's key lieutenants with Partisans during WWII, and also for breaking with Stalin AND then Tito.

    This book is both Djilas's biography of the founder of the (semi) modern Montenegrin state AND also a love poem to the land and people of the Black Mountain.

    Djilas can be a rather turgid writer, but this book is one of his best, along with "Conversations with Stalin".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milovan_Djilas

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petar_II_Petrović-Njegoš
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Sandpit said:

    Jonny Bairstow!

    In line to be the first ever player to have consecutive Test centuries at better than a run a ball, according to Cricinfo.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Another remarkable Bairstow test century.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    On my last night in Tbilisi I discover the best restaurant in the country. Down in a cellar. Full of Georgian politicians and artists. Dirt cheap. Ah well
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    Presumably it was the hardcore pornography regularly consumed by Catholic priests that caused them to bugger to the choirboys.

    Or would you like to present some actual evidence?
    so you think hardcore internet porn is a societal positive...ok its a view i suppose
    No, I'm asking you for evidence that the availability of pornography has increased the amount of sexual violence.

    And my point is that a group that very definitely didn't have access to hardcore Internet porn, seemed to have no problems in engaging in an awful lot of sexual violence.
    mmm problem is that argument starts to veer into homophobia a bit though doesnt it.....are you suggesting homosexuals are inherently more inclined to abuse???
    You seem to be changing the subject.

    You have suggested that access to pornography results in sexual violence.

    Let's look at a pre-Internet world, shall we, where access to pornography was much more uneven. In 2004, almost all the worst countries from a rape perspective were in Africa.

    But even ignoring that, the countries in the West with the lowest rapes of rape were those with the least restrictive pornography laws. The Netherlands - even today - has levels of sexual violence we can only dream of.

    And the growth of the Internet doesn't seem to have led to an increase in rates of rape over time either. In the US thirty years ago, there were 42.8 rapes per 100,000 people. Now it is 38.4.

    So, where is your evidence that access to porn increases sexual violence. The evidence, fwiw, suggests exactly the opposite: that people find gratification in the world of make believe in their bedroom, rather than by forcing themselves onto others.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    The Dalmatian coast is lovely but I’ve never been to MN sadly. Would love to go.
    I’ve done Croatia and Bosnia but Montenegro looks effing incredible. Think I’m going to do it

    Mountains, lakes, wild forest, and stunning Med coast. All in a place only TWO THIRDS THE SIZE OF WALES

    Ooof

    Couple centuries ago, when battling the Turks (or Austrians) the Montenegrins liked to say, "We and the Russians - 100 million strong!"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    Really hate to say this, but not having seen the game before got it 5th go. Lucky guess about what a list of 3 might contain
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott Aaronson

    Just last night my wife, Dana Moshkovitz, presented a proposal at the STOC business meeting to host STOC’2024 at a beautiful family-friendly resort outside Austin. The proposal failed, in part because of the argument that, if a pregnant STOC attendee faced a life-threatening medical condition, Texas doctors might choose to let her die, or the attendee might be charged with murder for having a miscarriage. In other words: Texas (and indeed, half the US) will apparently soon be like Donetsk or North Korea, dangerous for Blue Americans to visit even for just a few days.

    (Symposium on Theory of Computing)

    The not even to save life thing is extraordinarily vindictive and concerning. You can see travel insurers excluding Texas for women altogether

    There’s some hyperbole there re blue American safety, but it won’t take long for some manifestly unjust death to happen (or some MD gets jailed for ignoring the law to save a life) and then there will be fireworks.

    It is hyperbole - but check out this story from yesterday

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/woman-miscarriage-malta-trip-abortion-85582801
    It's not hyperbole.
    Absolute abortion bans - which today's ruling allows, and which are likely in several states - completely remove personal autonomy with regard to pregnant women's medical choices.
    And it also turns every miscarriage into a potential criminal case.

    Calling it hyperbole is glossing over the reality of that.
    Yes I probably should clarify that the hyperbole comment was directed at the “Blue Americans not safe in Red States” part. I entirely agree that any pregnant woman is not safe in red states.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Evening all. Quiet old day then of nothing doing
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    ON topic, have any PB-ers ever been to Montenegro?

    I have to move on soon, possibly tomorrow, and for various reasons I need to be a bit closer to civilisation than the Caucasus, yet I still fancy somewhere new (and not too far away)

    Montenegro fits the bill. Is it as lovely as it looks in photos? Food? Wine? People?

    IF you can, find & read "Njegos [Njegoš]: Poet, Prince, Bishop" by Milovan Djilas [Đilas] perhaps the most notable Montenegrin of the 20th century, famous for his role as one of Tito's key lieutenants with Partisans during WWII, and also for breaking with Stalin AND then Tito.

    This book is both Djilas's biography of the founder of the (semi) modern Montenegrin state AND also a love poem to the land and people of the Black Mountain.

    Djilas can be a rather turgid writer, but this book is one of his best, along with "Conversations with Stalin".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milovan_Djilas

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petar_II_Petrović-Njegoš
    Ooh, Madloba!

    I love reading great books set in landscapes I am exploring. Sounds perfect
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    Presumably it was the hardcore pornography regularly consumed by Catholic priests that caused them to bugger to the choirboys.

    Or would you like to present some actual evidence?
    so you think hardcore internet porn is a societal positive...ok its a view i suppose
    No, I'm asking you for evidence that the availability of pornography has increased the amount of sexual violence.

    And my point is that a group that very definitely didn't have access to hardcore Internet porn, seemed to have no problems in engaging in an awful lot of sexual violence.
    mmm problem is that argument starts to veer into homophobia a bit though doesnt it.....are you suggesting homosexuals are inherently more inclined to abuse???
    I'm very sorry, but unfortunately you lack the stature AND seniority here on PB, to have license to be putting your words into other PBers posts.

    Don't take much here to earn that right. But way more than half-a-day of bilge-pumping methinks.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution

    Dunno if you are a Russian bot, but this seems to me entirely plausible. Women can be much more socially conservative than men, see female genital mutilation, which is often preserved by the opinions of women (men tend not to care, or be anti)

    The same process is known to defending rape lawyers, who will always try to pack a jury with women, as they are more judgemental (“the slut was drunk and asking for it”)
    Women under 45 are more strongly pro-Choice than men under 45. Above 60, it's the other way around.
    it will be women who rollback the sexual revolution when they decide they are no longer benefitting from it...maybe they are sick of rough casual sex and men who wont commit or even working in large corporations for 60 hours per week to afford a house...at that point the whole sexual revolution collapses
    You do know that they aren't obliged to have rough casual sex? Women aren't forced to swipe left on Tinder.
    you have the classic "goldman sachs" type view of seeing us as a society of atomised indviduals...have you never heard of social pressure....that "goldman sachs" type view of people as atomised individuals has done tremendous harm
    While the "micktrain" worldview of seeking to control the behaviour of consenting adults has been utterly without problems, right?
    happy medium mate happy medium....society doesnt have to be saudi arabia nor the present day uk...there is a balance between outright sexual decadence and sexual repression
    Are we talking about sexual decadence though?

    Banning abortion means that females in normal relationships who have an accident or are naive and who do not want a baby - plus the male concerned who doesn't not want a baby either - are barred by state dictate from exercising choice.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Those interested in the facts about American public opinion on abortion might want to dig into, for example, Gallup, which has been polling on the issue for decades.

    Or, you might want to look at the opinions of Hugh Hefner and Jesse Jackson. Jackson is the most interesting of the two because he changed his position, possibly for political reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson

    (I assume all of you know that, in the US, a disproportionate number of abortions are performed on black women, and that the Freakonomics folks argued that Rov v. Wade was a big reason for the decline in crime in the US, in the years after the decision.)

    And there is this irony: Catholic Democratic politicians often said that they were personally opposed to abortion, but that they would not impose their views on others. As it happens I think that's a fair description of Joe Biden's views, though he may not say that in public, now. And Donald Trump? It is fairly clear that, as a follower of Hugh Hefner, he is personally in favor of abortion.

    (My own views? I think it was a terrible mistake for the Supreme Court to invent a right that, before the decision, almost no one thought was in the Constitution. Before Roe, states were changing the laws on abortion, with legislatures reaching different compromises in different states. As in any democracy, the compromises were often imperfect, but they had this great advantage: If the voters didn't like them, they could change them, through their legislatures, or even directly in the states that have initiatives and referendums.

    Now, I expect us to go back to that period of democratic compromises, with the resulting patchwork looking much like Europe.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Biggest 7th wicket partnership for England in tests
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited June 2022
    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Overturning Roe puts the USA back to the position of every other nation in the world in that it becomes elected representatives decision whether or not abortion.
    I of course think it should be allowed but like SCOTUS I can't see anything in the US constitution about it

    Untrue, there are constitutions and constitutional courts that do set out the law for abortion, for instance Poland.
    The most interesting part of the decision is actually Roberts voted for it. Given he tends to go with the flow on the most contentious issues, either he is pissed off with the leak / threats against the Justices or he’s decided the tide is flowing in the favour of the conservatives.
    Note that Roberts gave a separate opinion.

    He only said the ban after 15 weeks was OK - he did not overturn Roe in full.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    By the by, for those who say that there is no right to privacy in the constitution, how do they explain the 4th Amendment ?
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...”
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    On my last night in Tbilisi I discover the best restaurant in the country. Down in a cellar. Full of Georgian politicians and artists. Dirt cheap. Ah well

    Cellars sometime do turn out to harbor great restaurants in odd places.

    Years ago went to one in that noted culinary capital - Lewiston, Idaho.

    Saw the sign on the street, was a bit dubious about a cellar under a bar. Turned out to be good and quirky; thing I remember was that a small plate of spaghetti with meatballs was included with every meal. I had mine as appetizer to great steak with baked (Idaho) potato (of course) at a very reasonable price.

    Can think of other examples, but that was most notable in my humble experience.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Leon said:

    On my last night in Tbilisi I discover the best restaurant in the country. Down in a cellar. Full of Georgian politicians and artists. Dirt cheap. Ah well

    Cellars sometime do turn out to harbor great restaurants in odd places.

    Years ago went to one in that noted culinary capital - Lewiston, Idaho.

    Saw the sign on the street, was a bit dubious about a cellar under a bar. Turned out to be good and quirky; thing I remember was that a small plate of spaghetti with meatballs was included with every meal. I had mine as appetizer to great steak with baked (Idaho) potato (of course) at a very reasonable price.

    Can think of other examples, but that was most notable in my humble experience.
    Wings in Edinburgh is another example.

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    rcs1000 won't like these studies; micktrain will: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2020/02/sociology-devout-married-christians-have-best-sex.html

    (Me? I think they are plausible, on evolutionary grounds, but haven't looked at any of them, in detail.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Overturning Roe puts the USA back to the position of every other nation in the world in that it becomes elected representatives decision whether or not abortion.
    I of course think it should be allowed but like SCOTUS I can't see anything in the US constitution about it

    Untrue, there are constitutions and constitutional courts that do set out the law for abortion, for instance Poland.
    What does the Polish Court say about abortion.
    One hot potato I thought of is that the EHCR if it had the err "right" set of judges on it could interpret 'right to life' in a certain fashion.

    Meanwhile absolute scenes at Headingley
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    As a case study in the beneficial effects of a change in leadership, the Tories might want to look at the fortunes of the England Test team.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    rcs1000 said:

    Biggest 7th wicket partnership for England in tests

    The Overton window is moving...
    Pretty amazing test debut.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    Presumably it was the hardcore pornography regularly consumed by Catholic priests that caused them to bugger to the choirboys.

    Or would you like to present some actual evidence?
    so you think hardcore internet porn is a societal positive...ok its a view i suppose
    No, I'm asking you for evidence that the availability of pornography has increased the amount of sexual violence.

    And my point is that a group that very definitely didn't have access to hardcore Internet porn, seemed to have no problems in engaging in an awful lot of sexual violence.
    mmm problem is that argument starts to veer into homophobia a bit though doesnt it.....are you suggesting homosexuals are inherently more inclined to abuse???
    You seem to be changing the subject.

    You have suggested that access to pornography results in sexual violence.

    Let's look at a pre-Internet world, shall we, where access to pornography was much more uneven. In 2004, almost all the worst countries from a rape perspective were in Africa.

    But even ignoring that, the countries in the West with the lowest rapes of rape were those with the least restrictive pornography laws. The Netherlands - even today - has levels of sexual violence we can only dream of.

    And the growth of the Internet doesn't seem to have led to an increase in rates of rape over time either. In the US thirty years ago, there were 42.8 rapes per 100,000 people. Now it is 38.4.

    So, where is your evidence that access to porn increases sexual violence. The evidence, fwiw, suggests exactly the opposite: that people find gratification in the world of make believe in their bedroom, rather than by forcing themselves onto others.
    I'm not talking about rape I'm talking about things like choking which women can feel pressured into due to the ubiquity of internet porn Also with regard to rape I don't think Africa is a fair comparison and if rape in the west is falling why are we always being told by women there is an epidemic of rape, are those women lying?
  • In the O2 Amex VIP lounge

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,631
    Macron says that abortion is a "fundamental right for all women".

    https://www.twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1540385276350046208

    L'avortement est un droit fondamental pour toutes les femmes. Il faut le protéger. J’exprime ma solidarité avec les femmes dont les libertés sont aujourd’hui remises en cause par la Cour suprême des États-Unis d’Amérique.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Rentoul agrees with me that Wakefield 'not enough' for SKS. Wise old Rentoul.
    However, in tandem with a blue wall collapse I think he could fall over the line. But those red wallers that disappeared from Lab tallies, no sign they are returning. If not when a Tory nonces on a kid and the PM is distilled pure toxicity then when? The Red Wall is not (yet) coming home.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Nigelb said:

    By the by, for those who say that there is no right to privacy in the constitution, how do they explain the 4th Amendment ?
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...”

    I don't think anyone has said that, have they? They've just said that it's a dubious, at best, justification for abortion rights.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    Roe vs Wade is settled law that i would not overturn.

    Kavanaugh has a whole pile of other perjury on top of that. Probably Thomas as well.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    Presumably it was the hardcore pornography regularly consumed by Catholic priests that caused them to bugger to the choirboys.

    Or would you like to present some actual evidence?
    so you think hardcore internet porn is a societal positive...ok its a view i suppose
    No, I'm asking you for evidence that the availability of pornography has increased the amount of sexual violence.

    And my point is that a group that very definitely didn't have access to hardcore Internet porn, seemed to have no problems in engaging in an awful lot of sexual violence.
    mmm problem is that argument starts to veer into homophobia a bit though doesnt it.....are you suggesting homosexuals are inherently more inclined to abuse???
    You seem to be changing the subject.

    You have suggested that access to pornography results in sexual violence.

    Let's look at a pre-Internet world, shall we, where access to pornography was much more uneven. In 2004, almost all the worst countries from a rape perspective were in Africa.

    But even ignoring that, the countries in the West with the lowest rapes of rape were those with the least restrictive pornography laws. The Netherlands - even today - has levels of sexual violence we can only dream of.

    And the growth of the Internet doesn't seem to have led to an increase in rates of rape over time either. In the US thirty years ago, there were 42.8 rapes per 100,000 people. Now it is 38.4.

    So, where is your evidence that access to porn increases sexual violence. The evidence, fwiw, suggests exactly the opposite: that people find gratification in the world of make believe in their bedroom, rather than by forcing themselves onto others.
    I'm not talking about rape I'm talking about things like choking which women can feel pressured into due to the ubiquity of internet porn Also with regard to rape I don't think Africa is a fair comparison and if rape in the west is falling why are we always being told by women there is an epidemic of rape, are those women lying?
    Just taking your last point: reporting - both to the police and in the media. In ye olden days, abuses such as rape would rarely be mentioned, and rarely prosecuted. Nowadays there are much stronger attempts to get people to report abuse, and abuses often get mentioned in the media.

    It's like saying that the Catholic Church has suddenly become infested with child abusers, as all the reports of child abuse are suddenly coming out - when in fact it is probably in far better position now wrt combatting abuse than it ever was.

    I don't think there's an 'epidemic of rape' or other abuse - if epidemic means a massive increase. It's always happened. It was just rarely mentioned and rarely reported.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MikeL said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Overturning Roe puts the USA back to the position of every other nation in the world in that it becomes elected representatives decision whether or not abortion.
    I of course think it should be allowed but like SCOTUS I can't see anything in the US constitution about it

    Untrue, there are constitutions and constitutional courts that do set out the law for abortion, for instance Poland.
    The most interesting part of the decision is actually Roberts voted for it. Given he tends to go with the flow on the most contentious issues, either he is pissed off with the leak / threats against the Justices or he’s decided the tide is flowing in the favour of the conservatives.
    Note that Roberts gave a separate opinion.

    He only said the ban after 15 weeks was OK - he did not overturn Roe in full.
    It's not really the Roberts Court any longer, anyway.
    His opinion is a sideshow.

    The more interesting comment was one from Kavanaugh who put forward the view that states cannot prohibit and prevent, or criminalise travel out of state to obtain an abortion, since there is a constitutional right to interstate travel.

    Since that is also a right not enumerated in the constitution - just like Roe - it rather undercuts his concurrence.

    Wonderful thing, the 9th Amendment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Applicant said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    Lactation? One learns something on PB ... now I really worry about farming MPs!
    Falls squarely within Rule 34.
    Now that is something else I have learnt today!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    On my last night in Tbilisi I discover the best restaurant in the country. Down in a cellar. Full of Georgian politicians and artists. Dirt cheap. Ah well

    Cellars sometime do turn out to harbor great restaurants in odd places.

    Years ago went to one in that noted culinary capital - Lewiston, Idaho.

    Saw the sign on the street, was a bit dubious about a cellar under a bar. Turned out to be good and quirky; thing I remember was that a small plate of spaghetti with meatballs was included with every meal. I had mine as appetizer to great steak with baked (Idaho) potato (of course) at a very reasonable price.

    Can think of other examples, but that was most notable in my humble experience.
    Wings in Edinburgh is another example.

    There’s a couple in Moscow/St Petersburg as well

    It’s a Russian/Soviet thing, definitely, I presume because of the brutal winter climate. Cellars are easier to keep warm?

    The Stray Dogs Cafe in St Petersburg - down in a cellar - is full of brilliant memories of Petersburg’s Silver Age, when Akhmatova and Mandelstam swapped sonnets with mad Tsarist lesbians

    I was there in the summer of 2019, and it was still full of lesbians

    How long before any westerner can go down the steps into the Stray Dogs Cafe? Sad
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    In the O2 Amex VIP lounge

    They look like Very Ordinary People to me! And how did YOU manage to crash the joint?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    By the by, for those who say that there is no right to privacy in the constitution, how do they explain the 4th Amendment ?
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...”

    I don't think anyone has said that, have they? They've just said that it's a dubious, at best, justification for abortion rights.
    But why so ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    All aboard the Supreme Court transantlantic express..




  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    True enough (despite all the jail-house lawyer shade-tree legal analysis on PB).

    Until, that is, they decided to unsettle it.
  • .
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    IshmaelZ said:

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    Really hate to say this, but not having seen the game before got it 5th go. Lucky guess about what a list of 3 might contain
    Hate to be that guy, but did you really hate to say this?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2022
    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    By the by, for those who say that there is no right to privacy in the constitution, how do they explain the 4th Amendment ?
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...”

    I don't think anyone has said that, have they?
    They have said just that.
    Very few really argue that the 4th introduces a general right to privacy:
    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html

    I would argue that it plainly does.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 won't like these studies; micktrain will: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2020/02/sociology-devout-married-christians-have-best-sex.html

    (Me? I think they are plausible, on evolutionary grounds, but haven't looked at any of them, in detail.)

    Is that because when they have sex with hookers, it's genuinely mindblowing compared to what they get at home?
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    Roe vs Wade is settled law that i would not overturn.

    Kavanaugh has a whole pile of other perjury on top of that. Probably Thomas as well.
    How many actually committed to not overturning it? As far as I'm aware the normal line was to call it settled law but leave it at that.

    Which was a cop out, they were allowed to get away with, if so. It was settled law when they said it, but settled law can become unsettled at any time, if it didn't we'd have no need for politicians, legislations or courts like SCOTUS that interpret legislation and constitutions.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Not quite sure how Clarence Thomas would have ruled on THAT one.

    As a jurist, would appear to be spitting image of Roger Taney . . . with a slight twist . . .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Pungent PB Pundit Alert - Dread Scott
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    That ruling on writs of mandamus always struck me as being really dodgy.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    And you think banning it would achieve...what, precisely? It would still exist.

    What you're describing is a problem we have with the wonderful, magical but flawed thing that is the internet.

    It bears no relation whatsoever to (largely) men rolling back the rights of women over their own bodies.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Got today's Redactle in 22!

    Really hate to say this, but not having seen the game before got it 5th go. Lucky guess about what a list of 3 might contain
    Hate to be that guy, but did you really hate to say this?
    Tore me up inside, honest. I felt like a captive in my own body watching a stranger's hands typing the post.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    maxh said:

    micktrain said:

    rcs1000 said:

    micktrain said:

    .

    micktrain said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    No, mate. It's not about sex, it's about sex with you.
    i wish i had the power to reverse the sexual revolution all by myself lol
    What do you want to reverse, precisely.

    People having consensual relations with whoever they want to is their own business.

    If nobody wants to have consensual relations with you, then your being an "incel" isn't the fault of the sexual revolution.
    mmm so we have someone who thinks hardcore internet porn and love island is a net benefit to society...its a view
    I wouldn't want to live in a society where people couldn't watch Love Island, and were banned from jacking off to lactation porn.

    People have different interests - tractors, guns, lactation porn, internet forums about political betting. And that's a good thing.

    You have no right not to be offended by other people's choices.
    yes but its a net negative to society having hardcore internet porn in young boys hands which they then use as an excuse to abuse young girls so theres that
    And you think banning it would achieve...what, precisely? It would still exist.

    What you're describing is a problem we have with the wonderful, magical but flawed thing that is the internet.

    It bears no relation whatsoever to (largely) men rolling back the rights of women over their own bodies.
    Gah, I think maybe I fed the troll. Sorry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Good grief. Maybe the best meal I’ve had in Georgia (and the standard is high)

    Down in a cellar. Fine khinkali, nice green salad, fresh adjika (pictured) - that’s the hot smoky Georgian chili paprika sauce - and magnificent kutaisi kebabs in another dreamy spicy sauce

    Plus excellent bread and two large glasses of delicious chilled dry red wine

    Cost?

    £14

    No wonder the politicians come here



  • Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Lincoln would be rolling in his grave at the state of the modern Republican Party ... The Party that won the Civil War is now for those who think the wrong side won the Civil War.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Leon said:

    Good grief. Maybe the best meal I’ve had in Georgia (and the standard is high)

    Down in a cellar. Fine khinkali, nice green salad, fresh adjika (pictured) - that’s the hot smoky Georgian chili paprika sauce - and magnificent kutaisi kebabs in another dreamy spicy sauce

    Plus excellent bread and two large glasses of delicious chilled dry red wine

    Cost?

    £14

    No wonder the politicians come here



    Is that a battery operated tomato for extra taste?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,781

    rcs1000 won't like these studies; micktrain will: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2020/02/sociology-devout-married-christians-have-best-sex.html

    (Me? I think they are plausible, on evolutionary grounds, but haven't looked at any of them, in detail.)

    As an atheist with the sexual history of a devout married Christian I don't find these findings that surprising.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Andy_JS said:

    micktrain said:

    Scott_xP said:
    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    Really? Seems she cannot even compose an original tweet!
    ? Has she been copying Tweets? She's a very good media performer imo.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Good grief. Maybe the best meal I’ve had in Georgia (and the standard is high)

    Down in a cellar. Fine khinkali, nice green salad, fresh adjika (pictured) - that’s the hot smoky Georgian chili paprika sauce - and magnificent kutaisi kebabs in another dreamy spicy sauce

    Plus excellent bread and two large glasses of delicious chilled dry red wine

    Cost?

    £14

    No wonder the politicians come here



    Is that a battery operated tomato for extra taste?
    Leon breaking into the love egg market.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    Just settling down to make a start on The Offer (about the making of The Godfather). Will report back.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Andy_JS said:

    micktrain said:

    Scott_xP said:
    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    Really? Seems she cannot even compose an original tweet!
    ? Has she been copying Tweets? She's a very good media performer imo.
    Both posted short tweets saying that, after last night, their focus was on "delivery" of something or other unspecific.

    Evidently "delivery" is No. 10's buzz-word for this harsh morning-after.

    Whereas what most UKers seem to want, is deliverance from the likes of them and (esp) Big Dog.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Pungent PB Pundit Alert - Dread Scott
    Dred Scott
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Just settling down to make a start on The Offer (about the making of The Godfather). Will report back.....

    If it is anything like as good as Heart of Darkness about making of Apocalypse Now it's good
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564

    If people who wanted to spambot PB would preface their first post 'Long time lurker here'. Then say something about proportional representation, it would take weeks for them to be flushed out, if ever.

    If they referenced the Second Punic War, then never.....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    Andy_JS said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    One of the problems of posting more than 12 hours after a by-election result is it's usually been said, argued, rebutted, retracted and in any case some thing else has pushed it off the agenda.

    Three thoughts from me:

    First, a marvellous effort by the LDs to win Tiverton & Honiton. This wasn't a "gimme" given the seat hadn't been won even in 1997. It required what seems sometime to be taken for granted in terms of hard work but don't underestimate what's needed especially in the early days.

    One or two on here have sniped a little about Richard Foord but he's obviously worked his proverbials off and whle he and I both know the real work of trying to hold the seat starts now it's still an incredible achievement to come from third and achieve a swing only a whisker short of 30%.

    Second, in Wakefield, as we saw in Australia, the collapse of the centre-right didn't translate directly to a swing to the main opposition centre-left party. The third-placed Independent, about whom very little has been said, put up a solid performance and clearly while disillusioned Conservatives and anti-Conservative voters seem happy to coalesce around an LD candidate, the same isn't true for a Labour candidate and that's an issue for Starmer.

    Third, looking at Tiverton & Honiton, I was struck by the way the Conservative candidate was controlled by her Agent and by presumably CCHQ staffers. Helen Hurford looked photogenic enough and I'm sure she could engage with voters but she wasn't given the chance. The farce of her hiding in a side room, coming out for the result and disappearing without a word was ridiculous.

    I don't know why the Conservative Party wants such tight control of its by-election candidate - has she been "promised" another go at the next GE contingent on her playing her part now? It might have been better if she'd been allowed to speak for yourself, acknowledge the problems and issues people have with the Prime Minister and argue she'd be in a better position to get help than an Opposition MP.

    I agree. If anything the Tories would probably do slightly better at by-elections with maverick candidates able to say whatever they thought about any subject even if it wasn't the party line.
    Yet Tory members are up in arms because they let a candidate who thinks Brexit is pants slip through the Wakefield selection
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    If people who wanted to spambot PB would preface their first post 'Long time lurker here'. Then say something about proportional representation, it would take weeks for them to be flushed out, if ever.

    You’ve just given away your secret 😆
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    tlg86 said:

    The Headingley crowd have got their money's worth today.

    Cricket tickets are free now?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This what the culture wars lead to.

    Nadine Dorries and the other collaborators in the UK culture war can feck right off.

    It’s a two way war, pal
    Republicans v women.

    pal.
    It’s not outrageous to believe that all human life begins at conception, and must therefore be protected as much as a baby

    I don’t agree but I respect that sincere belief honestly held by many in the USA

    Trouble is SOME right wingers have hijacked this cause as a way to monster the Left, as they believe the Left is bent on destroying the America they know

    It’s a war. Pal.
    Enough of this chippy 'pal' thing. It's a cringer.

    On the 'respect' front, for me it depends. People who believe abortion is morally wrong and (if a woman) would never contemplate it - I respect that. But people (esp men) who seek to impose that view by law on everyone else and in the process roll back the emancipation of women by 50 years - I don't respect that. I have contempt for it tbh.
    It's a subset of the right isn't it - the deeply religious conservative ones. Very niche over here thankfully. Plenty of them are women.
    A subset wielding disproportionate power atm for various reasons. Personally I think this is so gross that it won't hold. Can't say how exactly it will collapse but I'm pretty sure it will. You can't do this to women in 2022. You can't just sort of 'pretend' those struggles of the civil rights era never happened. I know the phrase 'wrong side of history' is over-bandied and can irritate, but it really does apply here.
    maybe the tide of history is turning...maybe women have decided they have had enough of the sexual revolution
    lol - Are you human or are you dancer?

    I can't quite tell.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Good grief. Maybe the best meal I’ve had in Georgia (and the standard is high)

    Down in a cellar. Fine khinkali, nice green salad, fresh adjika (pictured) - that’s the hot smoky Georgian chili paprika sauce - and magnificent kutaisi kebabs in another dreamy spicy sauce

    Plus excellent bread and two large glasses of delicious chilled dry red wine

    Cost?

    £14

    No wonder the politicians come here



    Is that a battery operated tomato for extra taste?
    Chilled red wine?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Lincoln would be rolling in his grave at the state of the modern Republican Party ... The Party that won the Civil War is now for those who think the wrong side won the Civil War.
    It's far worse than that.

    The GOP is now a full blown personality cult.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Ratger glad im not in *any american city* this weekend. Gonna get feisty.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Andy_JS said:

    micktrain said:

    Scott_xP said:
    its all very interesting but i dont think a change of leader will save the tories
    Really? I can see Penny Mordaunt being a very difficult opponent for Keir Starmer.
    Really? Seems she cannot even compose an original tweet!
    ? Has she been copying Tweets? She's a very good media performer imo.
    Both posted short tweets saying that, after last night, their focus was on "delivery" of something or other unspecific.

    Evidently "delivery" is No. 10's buzz-word for this harsh morning-after.

    Whereas what most UKers seem to want, is deliverance from the likes of them and (esp) Big Dog.
    Ah, the old 'delivering on the priorities of the British people' that Boris takes every electoral set back as a coded command for. :lol:

    Well, if I were Mordaunt, I doubt I'd have bothered to jazz it up much either.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    With respect to the impact of the Sexual Revolution and it's relevance to Roe v Wade & today SCOTUS ruling, clear that Justice Kavanaugh brought some keen personal insights into the legal debate.

    After all, isn't his favorite cocktail being: Sex on the Beach.

    Reckon that Clarence Thomas's favorite is likely: Rum and Coke.
This discussion has been closed.