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A Johnson 2022 exit is now the betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    micktrain said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    A terrible day for women across the USA but it’s pretty clear now what Americans have to do if they want to keep their rights .

    Get out and vote against all GOP on the ballot and make sure the nutjob party doesn’t get a majority in state legislatures.

    It could be the saving of the Dems at the mid terms. Things were looking grim otherwise, but this could spike Dem turnout significantly.
    doubt it not with gas prices as high as they are....it will only energise the hard core base not the floating voters
    will energise more than hard core dem base....defo
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    I think Cameron and Osborne (with a bit of unwilling help from Clegg) would have been able to do it in 2010-15 if they had wanted to. They had created a solid political climate for doing unpopular things and blaming the previous lot for it, with the Lib Dems also acting as a lightning rod for more of the anger generated. I think they could have used the opportunity to implement austerity in a fairer way, which would have avoided some of the problems we are now experiencing.

    I don't see any politicians making the necessary arguments to convince the voters that it is required, though.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    Yes, we are being unfair and it probably feels like we are being hostile, too

    I fear it is just an unfortunate confluence of two things, the subject of tipping and that contentious SCOTUS ruling today

    I was in the USA just last month - as you probably know - and sure I encountered societal issues - just like I do in the UK, Armenia, Greece, Sri Lanka - but the Americans I met were universally hospitable, kind, funny and generous. Some of the nicest people on earth, in a magnificent country

    You just need to rewrite your Constitution a bit, and kick out all the crap/old politicians
    Personally find being dissed as crazed tippers way MORE upsetting, than be critiqued in national terms for overthrown of Roe v Wade, abuse of 2nd Amendment and other ills of American democracy.

    I mean, isn't coming to USA and being pissed off because posted prices do NOT include sales tax, just as "clueless" as giving a waiter a few quid or euros or whatever when that is NOT the custom of the country?
    A fair point

    On my last US trip (this April) I actually found tipping less hassle than normal, because now almost everyone has contactless machines and you can just tap in “10%” in a few seconds, job done.You don’t need to carry around loads of small notes

    It would still be better if you got rid of excessive tipping altogether tho. That might happen as post-Covid makes cheap workers scarce. Once everyone has a living wage, tipping will dwindle
    You get away with 10% tips in the US>>?
    Most cash-less payment systems give options like this: 10% or 15% or 20%. While others are more free-form. With most people (I think) choosing the middle choice.

    My guess is also that, in the long run, the workers end up getting MORE in tips via this system, as fewer people will stiff them. AND a significant percent will tip MORE than the mid-range.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    CatMan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Pungent PB Pundit Alert - Dread Scott
    Dred Scott
    I think you might have misunderstood SeaShanty's pun ?


    Not impossible

    I have just watched some entirely graphic footage of a minotaur being masturbated to ejaculation in an alley by a trio of birds (avian) and thought Yeah boring filler, get on with the story. Perhaps this new bloke has a point about desensitization.
    Teletubbies is not what it was.
    Did they get banned in UK due to one of the TTs being gay, allegedly? The one with the triangle?
    USA, was it not? (not a dig at you - I really can't remember, but it was the US where BBC childrens' programmes used to be suspected as hippy druggie dropout propaganda).
    Yes, back in the late '90s when rightwingers (Christian or pagan) were fixated on homophobia for fun & (electoral) profit.

    A schtick that they (unlike our newest quasi-PBer) have pretty much abandoned, having transferred their ire (and targeting) on anti-trans and related woke-phobia.
    They may have abandoned it for a while, but they're starting to go back to it
    trans is a small issue..next battle will be whether supreme court overturns same sex marriage
  • It is a very common myth that the electoral college and quirks like the 2 senators fixed per state were solely created to please the slave-holding states, actually the opposite is true and the 60% was a compromise to please the slave states while letting the free states get the protection of fixed senators per state that they desired.

    In 1770 by far the largest state of all was very heavily slave-owning Virginia which had more population than most of what we'd now call New England combined.

    The small free states in the North like Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine wanted the fixed Senators to ensure their interests weren't overridden by larger slave-owning states like Virginia.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    Makes sense. This Lamont was a close relative so can picture the sneering disdain.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    This will yank it out of us.
    No need to go septic on the thread...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    I think Cameron and Osborne (with a bit of unwilling help from Clegg) would have been able to do it in 2010-15 if they had wanted to. They had created a solid political climate for doing unpopular things and blaming the previous lot for it, with the Lib Dems also acting as a lightning rod for more of the anger generated. I think they could have used the opportunity to implement austerity in a fairer way, which would have avoided some of the problems we are now experiencing.

    I don't see any politicians making the necessary arguments to convince the voters that it is required, though.
    key mistake was panicing and using help to buy to reenergise housing market...no govt that does the right thing will ever be popular
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    Yes, we are being unfair and it probably feels like we are being hostile, too

    I fear it is just an unfortunate confluence of two things, the subject of tipping and that contentious SCOTUS ruling today

    I was in the USA just last month - as you probably know - and sure I encountered societal issues - just like I do in the UK, Armenia, Greece, Sri Lanka - but the Americans I met were universally hospitable, kind, funny and generous. Some of the nicest people on earth, in a magnificent country

    You just need to rewrite your Constitution a bit, and kick out all the crap/old politicians
    Personally find being dissed as crazed tippers way MORE upsetting, than be critiqued in national terms for overthrown of Roe v Wade, abuse of 2nd Amendment and other ills of American democracy.

    I mean, isn't coming to USA and being pissed off because posted prices do NOT include sales tax, just as "clueless" as giving a waiter a few quid or euros or whatever when that is NOT the custom of the country?
    Being unhappy with the way things are done somewhere else isn't the same as not being willing to go along with it.
    This is where your clueless argument makes some sense, with most of these Ugly Americans is case of not knowing local customs rather than being unwilling to confirm.

    PLUS fact that we are socialized to give tips to waiters, bartenders, baristas & the like. Thus either feel uncomfortable about NOT tipping when good service is rendered. AND likely to forget about the local custom even if we know it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,160

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Not for nothing, but #SupremeCourt justices can be #impeached with a simple majority in the #House.

    Relevant because at least 4 of them appear to have lied under oath in their confirmation hearings, and one was party to a violent coup attempt to overthrow the 2020 election.

    https://twitter.com/Seiurus/status/1540373576997429248

    Do we know what the lies were?
    The testified, for example, that they regarded Roe as "settled law".
    It was settled law.

    I wonder how far some of these Justices want to go back? How many would like to go back to Dredd Scott?
    Don't effing joke.

    Alito actually referenced Taney's opinion in Dredd Scott in his recent gun rights decision.
    Pungent PB Pundit Alert - Dread Scott
    Dred Scott
    I think you might have misunderstood SeaShanty's pun ?


    Not impossible

    I have just watched some entirely graphic footage of a minotaur being masturbated to ejaculation in an alley by a trio of birds (avian) and thought Yeah boring filler, get on with the story. Perhaps this new bloke has a point about desensitization.
    Teletubbies is not what it was.
    Did they get banned in UK due to one of the TTs being gay, allegedly? The one with the triangle?
    USA, was it not? (not a dig at you - I really can't remember, but it was the US where BBC childrens' programmes used to be suspected as hippy druggie dropout propaganda).
    Yes, back in the late '90s when rightwingers (Christian or pagan) were fixated on homophobia for fun & (electoral) profit.

    A schtick that they (unlike our newest quasi-PBer) have pretty much abandoned, having transferred their ire (and targeting) on anti-trans and related woke-phobia.
    You mean that wasn't the hippy druggie dropout bods at the BBC in that period?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    The predictive powers of JK Rowling.

    Wild Geerters
    @steinkobbe
    you really don't need any skills or knowledge on how anything works to be a high paid columnist for a big newspaper

    https://twitter.com/steinkobbe/status/1540416918716387328?s=20&t=UmDgJugw_V9UWFx3o2vBfA
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    plus zelensky made an appearance...even better
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    I think Cameron and Osborne (with a bit of unwilling help from Clegg) would have been able to do it in 2010-15 if they had wanted to. They had created a solid political climate for doing unpopular things and blaming the previous lot for it, with the Lib Dems also acting as a lightning rod for more of the anger generated. I think they could have used the opportunity to implement austerity in a fairer way, which would have avoided some of the problems we are now experiencing.

    I don't see any politicians making the necessary arguments to convince the voters that it is required, though.
    Of course not. They know it will lose them the election.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thank you. Finest moment in the history of television.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    This will yank it out of us.
    No need to go septic on the thread...
    Either I am ignorant of some obscure meaning of the word 'septic,' or that pun was shit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    Not sure it did Clary's career much harm tbh, nor should it have done.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    Happily enjoying a trip back to my NZ days with crowded house.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    This will yank it out of us.
    No need to go septic on the thread...
    Either I am ignorant of some obscure meaning of the word 'septic,' or that pun was shit.
    Misread yank as tank?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    Yes, we are being unfair and it probably feels like we are being hostile, too

    I fear it is just an unfortunate confluence of two things, the subject of tipping and that contentious SCOTUS ruling today

    I was in the USA just last month - as you probably know - and sure I encountered societal issues - just like I do in the UK, Armenia, Greece, Sri Lanka - but the Americans I met were universally hospitable, kind, funny and generous. Some of the nicest people on earth, in a magnificent country

    You just need to rewrite your Constitution a bit, and kick out all the crap/old politicians
    Personally find being dissed as crazed tippers way MORE upsetting, than be critiqued in national terms for overthrown of Roe v Wade, abuse of 2nd Amendment and other ills of American democracy.

    I mean, isn't coming to USA and being pissed off because posted prices do NOT include sales tax, just as "clueless" as giving a waiter a few quid or euros or whatever when that is NOT the custom of the country?
    A fair point

    On my last US trip (this April) I actually found tipping less hassle than normal, because now almost everyone has contactless machines and you can just tap in “10%” in a few seconds, job done.You don’t need to carry around loads of small notes

    It would still be better if you got rid of excessive tipping altogether tho. That might happen as post-Covid makes cheap workers scarce. Once everyone has a living wage, tipping will dwindle
    You get away with 10% tips in the US>>?
    Most cash-less payment systems give options like this: 10% or 15% or 20%.
    While others are more free-form. With
    most people (I think) choosing the middle choice.


    My guess is also that, in the long run, the workers end up getting MORE in tips via this system, as fewer people will stiff them. AND a significant percent will tip MORE than the mid-range.
    Sort of related but I noticed over the last year or two that a lot of card payment machines in shops/garages etc asked you if you wanted to add 25p for charity. At first I was irritated by it as I thought it was a weird sneaky way to get tips but then I realised (I hope) that as everyone stopped using cash during the pandemic the little charity boxes where you put your change into were probably getting dry and so (assuming it’s where it goes) it’s actually a nice idea.

    I could check whether this actually goes to charity and which charities but I have hope in human nature - a world that can still give an impecunious tramp a free home in Whitehall and people rally round to decorate it is a good world of human kindness.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Since going back to restaurants after the pandemic I've found it impossible to tip. I always pay by card now, and never have much in the way of any cash to leave. Before the pandemic most restaurant card machines had an option for adding a tip to card payments, but that has all gone. I've found it a bit odd, though I never liked the concept of tipping and it made me feel uncomfortable, now I worry that I'm missing a new way one is supposed to pay it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
    But also appalling (look at Clunes). Very professional attempt by Ross to to reframe fisting as punching.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    Weather With You high risk for Glastonbury...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    kjh said:

    Yeah, just driven a car for the first time since I broke my legs in February.

    I still walk with a limp and it still hurts and stairs are a pain, but driving was easy.

    I was planning on having motor racing lessons, which were postponed. Now going back on the schedule.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    It’s actually rather cheering that you can still go to a beautiful fascinating historic civilised city and have a delicious meal - surrounded by politicians! - for £14 a head. Including plentiful and excellent local wine


    AND - listen up, Merika - no one expects a tip, and they are totally surprised, even bemused, when you leave one

    Always a sign of the clueless tourist, leaving a tip in a country where the culture is that you don’t. Normally it’s Americans that mess up like that.
    Because we aren't (as a rule) as cheap as UKers?
    Normally it’s some mixture of habit, fearing the shame you have at home if you don’t leave one, and ignorance. Americans don’t realise that leaving a tip in many countries can be seen as almost an insult.
    An insult that folks get over pretty quickly I reckon.
    No, an insult that can create problems for the tourists that follow, once people get accustomed to being insulted and not minding so much.
    Only for cheapskate tourists is a gratuity a "problem".
    It's always a topic that reveals Americans' remarkable blindness to other cultures, and I see that tonight is no exception.
    And just any topic on PB will apparently reveal the innate anti-Americanism of many PBers.

    Just sayin'.
    This will yank it out of us.
    No need to go septic on the thread...
    Either I am ignorant of some obscure meaning of the word 'septic,' or that pun was shit.
    Cockney rhyming slang.

    https://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/slang/septic_tank#:~:text=Septic Tank is Cockney slang,way of describing an American.
  • dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
    I'm not sure it did put a stop to his career, did it?

    I was young then and never heard about Clary until after this, but he was still regularly on TV etc when I was a young adult many years after this.

    I believe Clary himself said in his autobiography that he took a hiatus from performing due to his personal life (his partner was dying I believe, which is the same reason he made the joke so explicit rather than his normal double entendre, he didn't give a shit anymore).
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
    I didn't realize but apparently Lamont himself had presented an award earlier in the evening. Odd choice. The guy would have been about as popular as scabies at the time.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    Weather With You high risk for Glastonbury...
    If it’s anything like here they will be having four seasons in one day.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    See here

    “The Racist History of Tipping”


    https://www.politico.com/section/magazine

    Fact-checked here

    “Our ruling: True

    Based on our research, the claim that tipping became popularized by restaurant owners who didn't want to pay Black workers after the passage of the 15th Amendment is generally TRUE, though more context is helpful.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/

    Degler (1959), revised editions 1970 and 1984, is the most authoritative source.
    What about factoids cited by wiki article?

    Not that I'm claiming IT is exactly authoritative. But doubt they just made it up.
    Again, you don't seem to have read what you actually linked.
    You mean this?

    "Some have argued that "The original workers that were not paid anything by their employers were newly freed slaves" and that "This whole concept of not paying them anything and letting them live on tips carried over from slavery."[18][19][20] The anti-tipping movement spread to Europe with the support of the labour movement, which led to the eventual abolition of customary tipping in most European countries."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity

    That is SMALL section of a LONG article, which among other things states (immediately before above passage) that

    The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. In medieval times, tipping was a master-serf custom wherein a servant would receive extra money for having performed superbly well.[15] By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host's servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

    The practice was imported from Europe to America in the 1850s and 1860s by Americans who wanted to seem aristocratic. However, until the early 20th century, Americans viewed tipping as inconsistent with the values of an egalitarian, democratic society, as the origins of tipping were premised upon noblesse oblige, which promoted tipping as a means to establish social status to inferiors. Six American states passed laws that made tipping illegal. Enforcement of anti-tipping laws was problematic. The earliest of these laws was passed in 1909 (Washington), and the last of these laws was repealed in 1926 (Mississippi)"

    Which somewhat undermines your argument (as I recall it) that tipping ORIGINATED in post-Emancipation America.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    See here

    “The Racist History of Tipping”


    https://www.politico.com/section/magazine

    Fact-checked here

    “Our ruling: True

    Based on our research, the claim that tipping became popularized by restaurant owners who didn't want to pay Black workers after the passage of the 15th Amendment is generally TRUE, though more context is helpful.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/

    Thanks. Never liked tipping (although I do tip generously when it is customary) so good to have a solid Woke rationale being my prejudice.
    Yes it's a no win. You feel bad if you don't and bad if you do.
    i always tip more than expected...when i return i get very good service then
    rat on a wheel though then
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
    I'm not sure it did put a stop to his career, did it?

    I was young then and never heard about Clary until after this, but he was still regularly on TV etc when I was a young adult many years after this.

    I believe Clary himself said in his autobiography that he took a hiatus from performing due to his personal life (his partner was dying I believe, which is the same reason he made the joke so explicit rather than his normal double entendre, he didn't give a shit anymore).
    Thanks.
    I genuinely didn't know any of that. I only heard about it years after the fact, and didn't know whether it did affect his career or not.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Lamont on AQ pro Johnson: leave him to get on with the job, changing the vonc rules not cricket

    Does Lamont know that the rules of cricket have changed millions of times? Therefore it is cricket.
    Sorry for confusion, guys, "not cricket" was my own shorthand for what he actually said. Perhaps I should have glossed his words as "not kosher" but that would raise some whole other issues
    To be fair I didn’t even know which Lamont you were referring to - was picturing an absolute arsehole at school and thinking “yes, he would say that, the bullying obnoxious twat”.

    Norman, immortalised by Julian Clary (at the expense of his own career, but worth it)
    I've got to post the link B)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
    Thanks. Never seen that before. Though I've heard about it.
    I wasn't in the country at the time.
    Why did that put a stop to his career? The audience thought it hilarious.
    I didn't realize but apparently Lamont himself had presented an award earlier in the evening. Odd choice. The guy would have been about as popular as scabies at the time.
    The Tories went through a phase of trying to be down with the kids doing cool awards and stuff post Thatch, which Chris Morris etc took advantage of. Its crept back in since Poncey Boots PM and One Direction etc
    Labour of course have never stopped whoring at the alter of cool. Hence 97 and the tragic Kinnock and Her Ladyship Mandy dancing to the tragic D:Ream shit pop
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    Or get in on a stupid wet manifesto then, day 1, rip it up and get serious.
    Yep, find some equivalent of the Liam Byrne memo revelation to illustrate how spectacularly the Tories have mismanaged the public finances, then produce an emergency budget and bring in the necessary new taxes. The primary target should be land value taxes on all residential property: based on a recent estimate of £9.2tn for the market value of the entire national housing stock, a 0.5% levy would raise £46bn, and you can add on another couple of billion for sumptuary rates on very high value properties and second homes. Substantial additional sums could then be generated by raising rates of CGT on securities and other assets, and expanding death duties to cover a much larger percentage of estates. Happy days.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    petrol prices still seem to be rising and dire economic data now across europe..maybe the tories want bojo in place to take all the hits that are coming
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    plus zelensky made an appearance...even better
    He's got a big fan club here. Spotted this earlier today.



  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    Researching further. It seems there was a campaign to have Clary banned, despite not a single complaint.
    Guess who? Yes, tireless free speech campaigner Piers Morgan wanted him cancelled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-night-comedian-julian-clary-joked-that-he-had-fisted-politician-norman-lamont-at-the-british-comedy-awards-2/amp/
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Since going back to restaurants after the pandemic I've found it impossible to tip. I always pay by card now, and never have much in the way of any cash to leave. Before the pandemic most restaurant card machines had an option for adding a tip to card payments, but that has all gone. I've found it a bit odd, though I never liked the concept of tipping and it made me feel uncomfortable, now I worry that I'm missing a new way one is supposed to pay it.

    I assume that if the card machine doesn't have an option to add a tip, they aren't expectong to get a tip. Certainly card machines in some restaurants do have the option.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    RH1992 said:

    micktrain said:

    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    plus zelensky made an appearance...even better
    He's got a big fan club here. Spotted this earlier today.



    It's a long way from being a CND festival now.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    micktrain said:

    petrol prices still seem to be rising and dire economic data now across europe..maybe the tories want bojo in place to take all the hits that are coming

    Nah. Occum's Razor applies: if it looks like they're flailing around in an uncoordinated panic, the most likely explanation is that they're in an uncoordinated panic.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Regarding tipping...

    What I find ridiculous is when people feel the need to calculate a precise percentage of the bill and leave exactly that, rather than just rounding up to a convenient number.

    Meanwhile, for fans of QVC, there is an hour of L'Occitane on the beauty channel at 11. Always worth a watch...

    The Naked Gun is about to start on 5STAR (Freeview 32) right now!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    dixiedean said:

    Researching further. It seems there was a campaign to have Clary banned, despite not a single complaint.
    Guess who? Yes, tireless free speech campaigner Piers Morgan wanted him cancelled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-night-comedian-julian-clary-joked-that-he-had-fisted-politician-norman-lamont-at-the-british-comedy-awards-2/amp/

    Must have been a "woke joke".
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,631
    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    pigeon said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    Or get in on a stupid wet manifesto then, day 1, rip it up and get serious.
    Yep, find some equivalent of the Liam Byrne memo revelation to illustrate how spectacularly the Tories have mismanaged the public finances, then produce an emergency budget and bring in the necessary new taxes. The primary target should be land value taxes on all residential property: based on a recent estimate of £9.2tn for the market value of the entire national housing stock, a 0.5% levy would raise £46bn, and you can add on another couple of billion for sumptuary rates on very high value properties and second homes. Substantial additional sums could then be generated by raising rates of CGT on securities and other assets, and expanding death duties to cover a much larger percentage of estates. Happy days.
    That's the country I want to live in.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)

    I've always assumed that when you just stand at a counter and get served, then this is not a tipping situation. Table serving is where tipping kicks in.

    If this isn't the case in the US then I have pissed off a few baristas and bartenders on my travels.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Applicant said:

    Since going back to restaurants after the pandemic I've found it impossible to tip. I always pay by card now, and never have much in the way of any cash to leave. Before the pandemic most restaurant card machines had an option for adding a tip to card payments, but that has all gone. I've found it a bit odd, though I never liked the concept of tipping and it made me feel uncomfortable, now I worry that I'm missing a new way one is supposed to pay it.

    I assume that if the card machine doesn't have an option to add a tip, they aren't expectong to get a tip. Certainly card machines in some restaurants do have the option.
    With contactless you don't even interact with a machine.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Crowded House getting a mellow vibe going. Great to have Glasto back. Last time it was on BoJo was just a backbencher with an unusually high muscle to fat ratio.

    Weather With You high risk for Glastonbury...
    Yes. And funnily enough I was waiting for my fav of theirs - Why Does It Always Rain On Me - then remembered it was Travis!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited June 2022

    Regarding tipping...

    What I find ridiculous is when people feel the need to calculate a precise percentage of the bill and leave exactly that, rather than just rounding up to a convenient number.

    Meanwhile, for fans of QVC, there is an hour of L'Occitane on the beauty channel at 11. Always worth a watch...

    The Naked Gun is about to start on 5STAR (Freeview 32) right now!
    It's Enrico Palazzo!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Applicant said:

    ..

    That's Airplane!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    edited June 2022
    We may think we've got problems but the SCOTUS decision once again highlights the fact the US is a nation in very serious trouble I think...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)

    I've always assumed that when you just stand at a counter and get served, then this is not a tipping situation. Table serving is where tipping kicks in.

    If this isn't the case in the US then I have pissed off a few baristas and bartenders on my travels.
    Yes, it is normal to tip bar staff in the USA.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    "Americans used to fight AGAINST Fascism!"
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    dixiedean said:

    Researching further. It seems there was a campaign to have Clary banned, despite not a single complaint.
    Guess who? Yes, tireless free speech campaigner Piers Morgan wanted him cancelled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-night-comedian-julian-clary-joked-that-he-had-fisted-politician-norman-lamont-at-the-british-comedy-awards-2/amp/

    Not wishing to get Piers Morgan off any hook, but later on in the article it says that it was in fact Gary Bushell who called for Clary's cancellation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    See here

    “The Racist History of Tipping”


    https://www.politico.com/section/magazine

    Fact-checked here

    “Our ruling: True

    Based on our research, the claim that tipping became popularized by restaurant owners who didn't want to pay Black workers after the passage of the 15th Amendment is generally TRUE, though more context is helpful.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/

    Degler (1959), revised editions 1970 and 1984, is the most authoritative source.
    What about factoids cited by wiki article?

    Not that I'm claiming IT is exactly authoritative. But doubt they just made it up.
    Again, you don't seem to have read what you actually linked.
    You mean this?

    "Some have argued that "The original workers that were not paid anything by their employers were newly freed slaves" and that "This whole concept of not paying them anything and letting them live on tips carried over from slavery."[18][19][20] The anti-tipping movement spread to Europe with the support of the labour movement, which led to the eventual abolition of customary tipping in most European countries."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity

    That is SMALL section of a LONG article, which among other things states (immediately before above passage) that

    The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. In medieval times, tipping was a master-serf custom wherein a servant would receive extra money for having performed superbly well.[15] By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host's servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

    The practice was imported from Europe to America in the 1850s and 1860s by Americans who wanted to seem aristocratic. However, until the early 20th century, Americans viewed tipping as inconsistent with the values of an egalitarian, democratic society, as the origins of tipping were premised upon noblesse oblige, which promoted tipping as a means to establish social status to inferiors. Six American states passed laws that made tipping illegal. Enforcement of anti-tipping laws was problematic. The earliest of these laws was passed in 1909 (Washington), and the last of these laws was repealed in 1926 (Mississippi)"

    Which somewhat undermines your argument (as I recall it) that tipping ORIGINATED in post-Emancipation America.
    I already made clear that I was referring not the first instance of someone paying extra, but the practice of deliberately underpaying someone and expecting the customers to make a decent wage by paying extra. That latter is peculiarly American and very respected American academics have traced it back to the abolition of slavery.
  • Diana’s coming out

  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    lol at the abolition of same sex marriage being on a par with fascism
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Since going back to restaurants after the pandemic I've found it impossible to tip. I always pay by card now, and never have much in the way of any cash to leave. Before the pandemic most restaurant card machines had an option for adding a tip to card payments, but that has all gone. I've found it a bit odd, though I never liked the concept of tipping and it made me feel uncomfortable, now I worry that I'm missing a new way one is supposed to pay it.

    I’ve usually found that if you say “Can you round it up to £xx, please?” it’s usually accepted with a smile.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)

    I think there are very few countries and very few corporations in other countries who can teach the US about philanthropy and charity. An incredibly generous country, aided by laws that make it doubly beneficial if one is being cynical, and an incredibly generous people whether in blood or treasure.

    There is something called (I think the name) the Ronald McDonald houses where they provide accommodation for parents where their children are being treated for serious issues in hospital. It’s a fantastic concept. The money in the UK comes from the UK but it was instigated by McDonalds USA.

    Anyone with issues with the US should be thankful that whilst it’s been the most powerful nation it’s probably been one of the most altruistic too.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    Diana’s coming out

    Enjoy! :D
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    It always has been, by at least some of the establishment. Particularly when the establishment is feeling threatened.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    micktrain said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    lol at the abolition of same sex marriage being on a par with fascism
    Yep. Its on the slippery slope. WTF do you care what consensual adults do?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Foxy said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    It always has been, by at least some of the establishment. Particularly when the establishment is feeling threatened.
    I feel that Rees-Mogg, Patel and Alister Jack would warmly welcome fascism. Any other likely suspects?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    micktrain said:
    I knew Trump would regret setting the precedent that violence trumps (sic) the rule of law.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    GIN1138 said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Do these lefties on Twitter that spout "fascism" all day every day actually know what a fascist is?

    And the idea the Tories are ever going to start trying to "unpick" abortion laws, gay rights, same-sex marriage etc etc is for the birds quite honestly...
    It's total nonsense. None of those things are even "issues" here any more, they all have overwhelming public support.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Indeed, I'm in a mixed race marriage myself and under these rules my wife would have probably been brought in for questioning a few times after her miscarriages had we been living in certain parts of the US.

    It's such a huge backwards step and now Biden and the Dems need to get serious about a constitutional amendment to enshrine these rights because they are absolutely fundamental.
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    edited June 2022
    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    Or get in on a stupid wet manifesto then, day 1, rip it up and get serious.
    Yep, find some equivalent of the Liam Byrne memo revelation to illustrate how spectacularly the Tories have mismanaged the public finances, then produce an emergency budget and bring in the necessary new taxes. The primary target should be land value taxes on all residential property: based on a recent estimate of £9.2tn for the market value of the entire national housing stock, a 0.5% levy would raise £46bn, and you can add on another couple of billion for sumptuary rates on very high value properties and second homes. Substantial additional sums could then be generated by raising rates of CGT on securities and other assets, and expanding death duties to cover a much larger percentage of estates. Happy days.
    That's the country I want to live in.
    Does it not cause some internal reflection that, without any mention of those who might benefit from such tax increases, the mere idea of the state legislating to take a bigger share of peoples' money than it does now evokes such a positive response from you?
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137

    micktrain said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    lol at the abolition of same sex marriage being on a par with fascism
    Yep. Its on the slippery slope. WTF do you care what consensual adults do?
    maybe you like a bit of uniform play
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    micktrain said:

    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

    I wonder how many abortions Trump has paid for over the years? It's got to be in double figures.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    It is a very common myth that the electoral college and quirks like the 2 senators fixed per state were solely created to please the slave-holding states, actually the opposite is true and the 60% was a compromise to please the slave states while letting the free states get the protection of fixed senators per state that they desired.

    In 1770 by far the largest state of all was very heavily slave-owning Virginia which had more population than most of what we'd now call New England combined.

    The small free states in the North like Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine wanted the fixed Senators to ensure their interests weren't overridden by larger slave-owning states like Virginia.

    Another Pungent Pundit Alert - Vermont did NOT take part in Constitutional Convention of 1789; while Maine was at that time still part of Massachusetts.

    Smaller states of that time, with four or fewer Representatives in original apportionment were (from north to south)

    New Hampshire 3 (less than 1% slave in 1790 census)
    Rhode Island I (ditto)
    New Jersey 4 (6.2% slave in 1790 census)
    Delaware 1 (15%)
    Georgia 2 (35%)

    Issue for smaller states was domination by larger states REGARDLESS of whether they had lots of slaves, like Virginia (10 Reps, 39% slave) or not, like Massachusetts (8 Reps, less than 1% slave) and Pennsylvania (8 Reps, ditto).

    So the device for limiting power of slaveholders was the 3/5 rule; for example IF the Old Dominion had gotten apportionment based on TOTAL population, it would have been entitled to two more Representatives.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Why does it do that? Genuinely puzzled
  • micktrainmicktrain Posts: 137
    glw said:

    micktrain said:

    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

    I wonder how many abortions Trump has paid for over the years? It's got to be in double figures.
    come on surely the great man is allowed a bit of hypocrisy
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    boulay said:

    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)

    I think there are very few countries and very few corporations in other countries who can teach the US about philanthropy and charity. An incredibly generous country, aided by laws that make it doubly beneficial if one is being cynical, and an incredibly generous people whether in blood or treasure.

    There is something called (I think the name) the Ronald McDonald houses where they provide accommodation for parents where their children are being treated for serious issues in hospital. It’s a fantastic concept. The money in the UK comes from the UK but it was instigated by McDonalds USA.

    Anyone with issues with the US should be thankful that whilst it’s been the most powerful nation it’s probably been one of the most altruistic too.

    No it hasn't. America's stewardship of the world economy has been marked by 'beggar thy neighbour' policies, designed (not always very well) to help the US economy with zero thought to the worldwide impact. The latest being their post covid stimulus package that shot the price of building materials worldwide through the roof.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    micktrain said:

    micktrain said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    lol at the abolition of same sex marriage being on a par with fascism
    Yep. Its on the slippery slope. WTF do you care what consensual adults do?
    maybe you like a bit of uniform play
    Darling you have *no* idea ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    edited June 2022
    glw said:

    micktrain said:

    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

    I wonder how many abortions Trump has paid for over the years? It's got to be in double figures.
    Miscarriages are abortions carried out by God!

    Believe in God, and you believe in abortion!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Have we discussed Nadine Dorries and WW11?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Indeed, I'm in a mixed race marriage myself and under these rules my wife would have probably been brought in for questioning a few times after her miscarriages had we been living in certain parts of the US.

    It's such a huge backwards step and now Biden and the Dems need to get serious about a constitutional amendment to enshrine these rights because they are absolutely fundamental.
    The bar to ratification of an ammendment is that a supermajority of states have to approve it, and it would never get past the red states.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Foxy said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    It always has been, by at least some of the establishment. Particularly when the establishment is feeling threatened.
    I feel that Rees-Mogg, Patel and Alister Jack would warmly welcome fascism. Any other likely suspects?
    Come off it. They are berks but you are merely revealing you are an ignoramus or are trolling.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    micktrain said:

    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

    Can’t Trump just FOAD !
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 883
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Indeed, I'm in a mixed race marriage myself and under these rules my wife would have probably been brought in for questioning a few times after her miscarriages had we been living in certain parts of the US.

    It's such a huge backwards step and now Biden and the Dems need to get serious about a constitutional amendment to enshrine these rights because they are absolutely fundamental.
    A constitutional amendment is, unfortunately, not a realistic prospect any time soon. As an aside, conservative textualists never really had an answer to the 9th Amendment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Diana’s coming out

    Diana Ross is gay?! Well that's a surprise.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Foxy said:

    4.5k likes on Twitter for this:

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1540346795070570497

    @RichardJMurphy
    Where the Republicans go the Tories follow. We take the right to abortion, contraception, gay rights and same-sex marriage for granted now. We shouldn't. Very soon Tory think tanks will have their sights on all of them. Fascism is on the march.

    Who'd have thought the march of Fascism would be welcomed so warmly?
    It always has been, by at least some of the establishment. Particularly when the establishment is feeling threatened.
    But on Twitter, all those likes is qiite extraordinary.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Great Britain is decaying before our eyes
    Of course people are furious: nothing works, nobody is working, and everything is going to the dogs

    CAMILLA TOMINEY"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/24/great-britain-decaying-eyes/

    Well, we are twelves years into yet another long period of Tory government, so what does she expect.
    There's a problem, though.

    In the mid 1990's, a lot of the country (especially the state funded bits) was crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering on the goodwill of too many underpaid staff. But it was also the case that the economy was trotting on very nicely, thank you. There was money to be shifted into making the public realm better.

    In the mid 2020's, things are also crumbly, tatty and clearly staggering. But heaven only knows where the money is going to come from to fix it.
    Most of the nation's wealth is stored in property. Find a way to cream some more of that off, and you've got your answer.
    That's so obviously true (just imagine if all that wealth had gone into something productive) that it's scary. But I don't really see how a government does anything about it and gets relected afterwards.

    Maybe what we need is a government who know and accept that they are toast, but want to leave the stage secure in the knowledge that they've done the right thing. Who will be happy that history will look on them favourably.

    (And then I woke up...)
    Or get in on a stupid wet manifesto then, day 1, rip it up and get serious.
    Yep, find some equivalent of the Liam Byrne memo revelation to illustrate how spectacularly the Tories have mismanaged the public finances, then produce an emergency budget and bring in the necessary new taxes. The primary target should be land value taxes on all residential property: based on a recent estimate of £9.2tn for the market value of the entire national housing stock, a 0.5% levy would raise £46bn, and you can add on another couple of billion for sumptuary rates on very high value properties and second homes. Substantial additional sums could then be generated by raising rates of CGT on securities and other assets, and expanding death duties to cover a much larger percentage of estates. Happy days.
    That's the country I want to live in.
    Does it not cause some internal reflection that, without any mention of those who might benefit from such tax increases, the mere idea of the state legislating to take a bigger share of peoples' money than it does now evokes such a positive response from you?
    Slapping £500 to several thousand tax bill on every home owner and indirectly taxing renters because every landlord will cover tax with rises in the teeth of a CoL crisis before shafting their pension pots and then inevitably raiding their other savings when the first thieving doesnt cut it would be an interesting way to be out on their ear and unelectable ever again in living memory of the robbed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Diana’s coming out

    We talk about Gove
    Gove
    Gove
    We talk about Gove
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    Researching further. It seems there was a campaign to have Clary banned, despite not a single complaint.
    Guess who? Yes, tireless free speech campaigner Piers Morgan wanted him cancelled.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/the-night-comedian-julian-clary-joked-that-he-had-fisted-politician-norman-lamont-at-the-british-comedy-awards-2/amp/

    Not wishing to get Piers Morgan off any hook, but later on in the article it says that it was in fact Gary Bushell who called for Clary's cancellation.
    Under Piers' editorship I think.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Have we discussed Nadine Dorries and WW11?

    Why - did she start it ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Why does it do that? Genuinely puzzled
    Well like Roe v. Wade it was SCOTUS in Loving v. Virginia that decided anti-miscegenation laws were unconstitutional.

    Now using the precedent set today, it is not for SCOTUS to decide such things but for the individual states. I expect some states would stall and just not pass laws making inter-racial marriages legal.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Have we discussed Nadine Dorries and WW11?

    Jesus, did I sleep through World Wars 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10? And SHE’s still alive like a platinum blonde cockroach?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree has pointed out to me that today's SCOTUS ruling puts as risk inter-racial marriage.

    I cherish the fact that I was part of an inter-racial marriage when I married one of the natives and nobody batted an eyelid.

    Thank Allah my grandparents moved to the UK and not the USA.

    Why does it do that? Genuinely puzzled
    Without having seen Cyc's posting, reckon argument is that state are now (in theory) at liberty to ban inter-racial marriage, like many did back in the day.

    Which personally think would be a stretch and then some.

    Even for a jurist like Clarence Thomas . . . or rather especially!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    glw said:

    micktrain said:

    Donald Trump taking credit for all this

    The former President is taking credit for what happened today.

    He said: "Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court.

    "It was my great honour to do so! I did not cave to the Radical Left Democrats, their partners in the Fake News Media, or the RINOs who are likewise the true, but silent, enemy of the people.

    These major Victories prove that even though the Radical Left is doing everything in their power to destroy our Country, your Rights are being protected, the Country is being defended, and there is still hope and time to Save America! I will never stop fighting for the Great People of our Nation!"

    I wonder how many abortions Trump has paid for over the years? It's got to be in double figures.
    That's assuming the little chipolata can actually "do" the business? ;)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    boulay said:

    There's an obscure restaurant chain in the US that does not have tipping: McDonalds's. One of their competitors, Wendy's, does not either, but they do have a little tray where you can contribute to their charity, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption. (I forgot about it, yesterday, when I picked up my hamburger. Usually, I leave my change there.)

    Other fast food places sometimes have jars for tips by the register. I'm not sure if there is a general rule for fast food places, or whether it varies in different parts of the US.

    In my area, it is common for grocery stores and pharmacies to, from time to time, collect for various charities, either cash or canned goods, depending on the charity. These aren't tips, but they do seem to make employees more favorably disposed to you. Is that common in other nations?

    (Of course, wherever I am, I try to follow the local customs.)

    I think there are very few countries and very few corporations in other countries who can teach the US about philanthropy and charity. An incredibly generous country, aided by laws that make it doubly beneficial if one is being cynical, and an incredibly generous people whether in blood or treasure.

    There is something called (I think the name) the Ronald McDonald houses where they provide accommodation for parents where their children are being treated for serious issues in hospital. It’s a fantastic concept. The money in the UK comes from the UK but it was instigated by McDonalds USA.

    Anyone with issues with the US should be thankful that whilst it’s been the most powerful nation it’s probably been one of the most altruistic too.

    Individual kindness (selectively deployed) and charity as a sticking plaster for obscene inequality and state cruelty, one of the richest countries in the world letting its citizens go bankrupt merely because they get seriously ill.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    edited June 2022

    Regarding tipping...

    What I find ridiculous is when people feel the need to calculate a precise percentage of the bill and leave exactly that, rather than just rounding up to a convenient number.

    Meanwhile, for fans of QVC, there is an hour of L'Occitane on the beauty channel at 11. Always worth a watch...

    The Naked Gun is about to start on 5STAR (Freeview 32) right now!
    The Woman who plays OJ Simpsons characters wife, played a juror in American Crime Story: The People v. O. J. Simpson :D
This discussion has been closed.