In the betting, the money goes on Putin surviving – politicalbetting.com

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Heathener said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Heathener said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JosiasJessop said:

I'm starting to think of how we offer Russia a way out of the mess they've inflicted on themselves.

What would I/we ideally want? Well, Putin removed from power, and preferable facing some form of international tribunal. Russian forces removed from all of Ukraine pre-2014, including Crimea and Donbass. Large reparations to help rebuild Ukraine. A full DMZ for thirty miles east of Ukraine with no Russian military presence. Russian acceptance that Ukraine will be offered membership of NATO, if they want it.

We won't get that.

What might we settle for? Putin removed from power, but kept in Russia. Preferably in jail. Russia removes itself from Ukraine and the Donbass, but keeps Crimea. Future reparations to Ukraine when Russia have rebuilt their economy. No DMZ. Ukraine not in NATO. Immediate removal of all sanctions on Russia (but not named individuals directly implicated in the war) once the above is agreed/implemented.

Would sane Russian generals and the oligarchy accept that?

The right kind of idea overall, I think. Several of the oligarchs would definitely accept that right now, too.

There'll be furious intrigue and plans going on.

Yep great discussion and this is the kind of pragmatism I've spoken about previously. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and do business with the lesser of evils.

Right now, Putin is an evil lunatic who is warring in Ukraine and threatening the world. This on top of countless other atrocities.

Compared to him some of the other oligarchs, heck even President Xi, are dance partners by comparison.

I have read your posts and can I gentle suggest it is time to recognise that both the UK and the EU have been excellent and that we need to avoid division as we seek a new relationship with the EU

When the dust settles on this, which hopefully won't be in the form of nuclear fallout, the UK will be even more isolated than before. The EU has stood tall and risen to the challenge. They are forging ahead with a brilliant unity and are likely to enlarge, working in tandem with NATO.

The UK is looking out on the fringe more than ever.

It's tragic.

I'm happy to park this part of the discussion for now but if we get through this, it will be true.

The UK has imposed a flight ban on Russian planes just like the EU. The UK has imposed economic sanctions on Russia just like the EU.

Not all EU nations are in NATO either unlike the UK, Austria, Ireland, Sweden and Finland for example are not in NATO

And - that doesn't answer any one of Heathener's points. One of the key things we offered the EU was military strength and that isn't much use if Germany has decided to stand up and actual provide that might themselves...

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Supplies they may be able to get away with, actually sending EU fighter jets to Ukraine to engage the Russian airforce and bomb Russian troops would be risky given Putin has put the Russian nuclear missile arsenal on alert

a MiG-29 is a MiG-29. once it's had a slight coat of paint how you would know it's a Polish rather than Ukrainian one?

MattW said:

RochdalePioneers said:

SouthamObserver said:

Heathener said:

This won't please Brexity types but the EU has stood tall.

In some ways it has played into Macron's hands. He wanted an EU army. A new order is being created in western Europe.

And we're outside it.

We have the opportunity for a major reset after six years of stupid bickering. The EU has changed utterly. In particular, this applies to Germany, which has put itself on course to become the world's largest non-nuclear military force and a major voice inside NATO. More than ever, it is in everyone's interests to find ways for the UK and the EU to work together productively. We now know we are all on the same side, that the UK's future is tied inextricably and unavoidably to Europe's and that we have plenty to offer each other. What is going to be interesting is how this plays out inside the Conservative party. Can the ERG accept this new reality?

They have a lot of new reality to accept. They're still keeping the door firmly shut to Ukranians seeking shelter - must keep the forrin out to appease the little Englander core vote.

That's not true, though. Certainly not in those stark terms.

As I suggested 48 hours ago would happen, family members of UK settled Ukrainians have already been offered sanctuary:
https://news.sky.com/story/ukrainian-refugees-will-be-able-to-join-immediate-family-members-in-uk-says-johnson-12553796

I've also seen something about 3 years sans visa for anyone, and I expect that UK Gov will have aligned with EU within another day on this one.

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Supplies they may be able to get away with, actually sending EU fighter jets to Ukraine to engage the Russian airforce and bomb Russian troops would be risky given Putin has put the Russian nuclear missile arsenal on alert

a MiG-29 is a MiG-29. once it's had a slight coat of paint how you would know it's a Polish rather than Ukrainian one?

The Polish ones are full of Western electronics now.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Benpointer said:

Cookie said:

How much is $20bn a day for Russia? According to Wikipedia, Russia's GDP is about $1,600bn. So at this rate Russia burns through its entire GDP in under 100 days.
Of course, its GDP will be negatively impacted by the war, so possibly rather sooner.
I mean, I hope the war doesn't go on for 100 days - but it's an indication of the kind of pressure Russia is under to finish this.
Remember also there will be other things it will be spending its money on besides war...

Where did you get $20bn per day from? $20bn per day is $133k per day for every of the 150k personnel in the Russian invasion force.

Much of the 'cost' will be on equipment and ammunition, lost and used. The cost would have been incurred in the past - sure there will be a replenishment cost but that could be at some indeterminate time in the future.

Smithson Junior has already debunked the 20 billion number a couple of times on here over the last few days. On the last thread he set out his calculations on it showing why the number is wildly exaggerated.

Scott_xP said:

The German government has published an English translation of Olaf Scholz's "Zeitenwende" (turning-point/new era) speech.

Essential reading for anyone interested in the extraordinary turn that Putin's war has inspired in German foreign & security policy. https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/policy-statement-by-olaf-scholz-chancellor-of-the-federal-republic-of-germany-and-member-of-the-german-bundestag-27-february-2022-in-berlin-2008378

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Supplies they may be able to get away with, actually sending EU fighter jets to Ukraine to engage the Russian airforce and bomb Russian troops would be risky given Putin has put the Russian nuclear missile arsenal on alert

Really though isn't the Russian nuclear missile arsenal always on alert?

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Supplies they may be able to get away with, actually sending EU fighter jets to Ukraine to engage the Russian airforce and bomb Russian troops would be risky given Putin has put the Russian nuclear missile arsenal on alert

a MiG-29 is a MiG-29. once it's had a slight coat of paint how you would know it's a Polish rather than Ukrainian one?

Malmesbury said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Mark, so do all the cool kids.

Once, by, as the song says a set of curious chances, I arrived in India with some Cambodian currency. Not a lot, fortunately. None of the banks I went to would change it and eventually I sold it to a fellow Brit in a bar.
And promptly used some of the rupees he gave me to buy us both a drink!

Back when I was at university, the film society wanted to film an ad. For whatever reason this included a briefcase-full-of-cash scene. Someone at the local bank branch mentioned that there was a huge stack of South American currency (one of the hyper inflations there), for some reason - so for about £50 we filled the briefcase.

Some time later I was sent to the bank to get the film societies money back. It was half way through that I noticed that customers in the bank were staring at the sight of me emptying a briefcase of cash through the foreign exchange window.

Gallowgate said:

I hope Zelenskyy survives this. Can you imagine the reception he would get visiting any city in western Europe?

Theuniondivvie said:

Probably behind the curve but hadn’t seen this clip of Zelenskyy (posted by the Feigl no less!) which was apparently the start of his journey into fictional then real politics. Strong stuff, though perhaps not as brave as making jokes about gypsies.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1497773516099399680?s=21

Benpointer said:

No idea if this is genuine but it made me laugh. It's the cigarette that's the killer...

"In #Berdyansk, a man removed a mine from under a bridge."

https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/1497937454573232132?s=20&t=SjM6i2CPtJH-xDBzbjZLsg

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

Cookie said:

Benpointer said:

Cookie said:

How much is $20bn a day for Russia? According to Wikipedia, Russia's GDP is about $1,600bn. So at this rate Russia burns through its entire GDP in under 100 days.
Of course, its GDP will be negatively impacted by the war, so possibly rather sooner.
I mean, I hope the war doesn't go on for 100 days - but it's an indication of the kind of pressure Russia is under to finish this.
Remember also there will be other things it will be spending its money on besides war...

Where did you get $20bn per day from? $20bn per day is $133k per day for every of the 150k personnel in the Russian invasion force.

Much of the 'cost' will be on equipment and ammunition, lost and used. The cost would have been incurred in the past - sure there will be a replenishment cost but that could be at some indeterminate time in the future.

I take it back - apparently $20bn per day is bunk. It was a figure flying around on here the other day.
Pity.

biggles said:

MattW said:

Heathener said:

DavidL said:

Heathener said:

FrankBooth said:

At that point the best thing might be mass protests in Moscow. After all what would they have to lose.

Or one of his generals puts a bullet in his head. Whoever had the courage to do that would be the rest of the world's friend for life.

What, all 1.5 minutes of it?

That makes no sense. If someone takes out Putin there won't be a nuclear war.

Were I in the assassination for Ukraine game, and able to get it done, Lukashenko might be a more tempting target. Possible revolution and diversion of Russian forces to guarantee Belarus stays under control.

Yes, Russia must be scared that he could fall, noting what we all know about the views of his people. That would be a significant domino.

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.

"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

rottenborough said:

Germany announcing plans to build more LNG terminals and Greens looking nuclear and coal again due to the crisis.

I suspect whatever happens now they will not go back to being so reliant on RU.

Putin has self-destructed his own economy, which is total reliant on commodity export.

NerysHughes said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Heathener said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Heathener said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JosiasJessop said:

I'm starting to think of how we offer Russia a way out of the mess they've inflicted on themselves.

What would I/we ideally want? Well, Putin removed from power, and preferable facing some form of international tribunal. Russian forces removed from all of Ukraine pre-2014, including Crimea and Donbass. Large reparations to help rebuild Ukraine. A full DMZ for thirty miles east of Ukraine with no Russian military presence. Russian acceptance that Ukraine will be offered membership of NATO, if they want it.

We won't get that.

What might we settle for? Putin removed from power, but kept in Russia. Preferably in jail. Russia removes itself from Ukraine and the Donbass, but keeps Crimea. Future reparations to Ukraine when Russia have rebuilt their economy. No DMZ. Ukraine not in NATO. Immediate removal of all sanctions on Russia (but not named individuals directly implicated in the war) once the above is agreed/implemented.

Would sane Russian generals and the oligarchy accept that?

The right kind of idea overall, I think. Several of the oligarchs would definitely accept that right now, too.

There'll be furious intrigue and plans going on.

Yep great discussion and this is the kind of pragmatism I've spoken about previously. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and do business with the lesser of evils.

Right now, Putin is an evil lunatic who is warring in Ukraine and threatening the world. This on top of countless other atrocities.

Compared to him some of the other oligarchs, heck even President Xi, are dance partners by comparison.

I have read your posts and can I gentle suggest it is time to recognise that both the UK and the EU have been excellent and that we need to avoid division as we seek a new relationship with the EU

When the dust settles on this, which hopefully won't be in the form of nuclear fallout, the UK will be even more isolated than before. The EU has stood tall and risen to the challenge. They are forging ahead with a brilliant unity and are likely to enlarge, working in tandem with NATO.

The UK is looking out on the fringe more than ever.

It's tragic.

I'm happy to park this part of the discussion for now but if we get through this, it will be true.

Hahahaha. Perhaps one of the most ridiculous comments of the last few weeks. Which given it is in competition with a genuine Moscow Troll is some going.

The UK - along with a select few EU countries - has led the way so far on support for Ukraine including getting in the weapons that they have been using to defend themselves whilst the EU as a whole was still prevaricating or in the case of Germany actually preventing support. The fact that the EU has finally caught up with Britain and the US is something to be delighted about but claiming they have 'stood tall' in contrast to the UK is fatuous and stupid in the extreme.

It has taken far too long but this weekend the EU finally caught up with some of the Non EU countries in realising the seriousness of the situation and doing something about it. Well done. Better late than never.

People also forget that whilst the UK were calling for the SWIFT restrictions many countries in the EU were against it.

darkage said:

A final thought, which is not original to me. Even though they will, in all probability, lose the 'war'; perhaps the numerous stories of resistance amongst the Ukranians against Putin's invasion will become the folk tales that form the basis of a western cultural resurgence.

Slackbladder said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Yeah there does come a point where Putin would feel like he has an excuse to hit against NATO targets.

Peter_the_Punter said:

Malmesbury said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Mark, so do all the cool kids.

Once, by, as the song says a set of curious chances, I arrived in India with some Cambodian currency. Not a lot, fortunately. None of the banks I went to would change it and eventually I sold it to a fellow Brit in a bar.
And promptly used some of the rupees he gave me to buy us both a drink!

Back when I was at university, the film society wanted to film an ad. For whatever reason this included a briefcase-full-of-cash scene. Someone at the local bank branch mentioned that there was a huge stack of South American currency (one of the hyper inflations there), for some reason - so for about £50 we filled the briefcase.

Some time later I was sent to the bank to get the film societies money back. It was half way through that I noticed that customers in the bank were staring at the sight of me emptying a briefcase of cash through the foreign exchange window.

When on Jury service many years ago I sat on an interesting case involving counterfeit notes. In the jury room we had on the table the principle exhibit, a bag containing £51,000 in dud twenties. To my eye they were indistinguishable from the real thing, although one of the jurors who worked in a bank was able to show us where they were visibly wrong.

It was about this time of year, close to the Cheltenham Festival when my requirement for surplus cash is higher than usual. I have to say I was tempted.

kle4 said:

Slackbladder said:

Andy_JS said:

How will Putin react to the news that EU states are going to supply Ukraine with fighter jets?

Yeah there does come a point where Putin would feel like he has an excuse to hit against NATO targets.

If he thinks this level of NATO support is unacceptable itd be a damn sight higher if he did that.

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.

"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

The biggest problem with deep geothermal has been the cost of drilling the hole. These guys are claiming to have a novel, cheap method for that. I am a bit skeptical.....

Leon said:

Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument

They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently

The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.

I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.

"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

The biggest problem with deep geothermal has been the cost of drilling the hole. These guys are claiming to have a novel, cheap method for that. I am a bit skeptical.....

From the deep, dark recesses of my mind, another issue is that unless carefully planned, they get less efficient as the extraction of hot water cools the surrounding rock faster than the heat can be replenished. Basically, you keep on needing to drill to 'get' heat into the system.

Don't know why that's different in Southampton. I think Ian West's geology website has something on it...

As an aside, if you want to dig a deep vertical tunnel, then Mikhail Tsiferov's rocket-engine tunnelling machine is perfect. Drills at five metres per minute through rock, faster through soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_rocket

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.

"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

The biggest problem with deep geothermal has been the cost of drilling the hole. These guys are claiming to have a novel, cheap method for that. I am a bit skeptical.....

From the deep, dark recesses of my mind, another issue is that unless carefully planned, they get less efficient as the extraction of hot water cools the surrounding rock faster than the heat can be replenished. Basically, you keep on needing to drill to 'get' heat into the system.

Don't know why that's different in Southampton. I think Ian West's geology website has something on it...

As an aside, if you want to dig a deep vertical tunnel, then Mikhail Tsiferov's rocket-engine tunnelling machine is perfect. Drills at five metres per minute through rock, faster through soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_rocket

Heathener said:

We really need Russian generals to turn on Putin.

Slackbladder said:

Heathener said:

A prediction.

I'm sad to say that I think Putin is going to launch a massive bombing of Kyiv. Could involve bombs all the way up to and including nuclear.

He's gone doolally and he's running out of other military options, other than withdrawal.

(And before anyone reminds me of my worst prediction, remember that was based on the argument that I didn't think he was stupid enough because I wasn't at all convinced Russia could win this militarily.)

I think its safe to say that if he's serious about this fight, he'll step it up as he can.

If I was Putin, and I was fighting a war against a inferior force (which the Ukrainian army is still), I would have sent in my old crappy tanks first to use them up...

Maybe that's what he's done.

Heathener said:

A prediction.

I'm sad to say that I think Putin is going to launch a massive bombing of Kyiv. Could involve bombs all the way up to and including nuclear.

He's gone doolally and he's running out of other military options, other than withdrawal.

(And before anyone reminds me of my worst prediction, remember that was based on the argument that I didn't think he was stupid enough because I wasn't at all convinced Russia could win this militarily.)

Heathener said:

We really need Russian generals to turn on Putin.

Heathener said:

A prediction.

I'm sad to say that I think Putin is going to launch a massive bombing of Kyiv. Could involve bombs all the way up to and including nuclear.

He's gone doolally and he's running out of other military options, other than withdrawal.

(And before anyone reminds me of my worst prediction, remember that was based on the argument that I didn't think he was stupid enough because I wasn't at all convinced Russia could win this militarily.)

Richard_Tyndall said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

eek said:

Utterly offtopic but not posted yet

https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews

A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.

I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.

There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.

"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme

The biggest problem with deep geothermal has been the cost of drilling the hole. These guys are claiming to have a novel, cheap method for that. I am a bit skeptical.....

From the deep, dark recesses of my mind, another issue is that unless carefully planned, they get less efficient as the extraction of hot water cools the surrounding rock faster than the heat can be replenished. Basically, you keep on needing to drill to 'get' heat into the system.

Don't know why that's different in Southampton. I think Ian West's geology website has something on it...

As an aside, if you want to dig a deep vertical tunnel, then Mikhail Tsiferov's rocket-engine tunnelling machine is perfect. Drills at five metres per minute through rock, faster through soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_rocket

Great for shallow holes but no good for anything of any great depth. The big issue will remain the inability to get the drilled rock out of the hole. It mentions carrying fragments up to 15cm across but there is a rapid loss of lift as the cuttings get further from the source of the lift (the rocket) and eventually they will fall back and block the hole behind the device.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Cookie said:

How much is $20bn a day for Russia? According to Wikipedia, Russia's GDP is about $1,600bn. So at this rate Russia burns through its entire GDP in under 100 days.
Of course, its GDP will be negatively impacted by the war, so possibly rather sooner.
I mean, I hope the war doesn't go on for 100 days - but it's an indication of the kind of pressure Russia is under to finish this.
Remember also there will be other things it will be spending its money on besides war...

$20 billion a day seems unlikely. 20 billion roubles, maybe, and even then you'd wonder about marginal versus fixed costs. Russia would be paying soldiers' wages even if they had remained in their barracks, for instance.

NerysHughes said:

tlg86 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/tensions-rise-at-the-3bn-surrey-estate-russian-oligarchs-call-home

The warning to rich Russians linked to Putin that the UK government “will come after you” and ensure oligarchs have “nowhere to hide” is likely to hit hard at the gated luxury housing estate in Surrey dubbed “Britain’s Beverly Hills”.

Russians and those from former Soviet states own more than a quarter of the 430 luxurious homes in St George’s Hill, a heavily guarded 964-acre estate near Weybridge, Surrey, where mansions have changed hands for more than £20m each.

We have actually worked on a house there, to term it heavily guarded is pushing it a bit, there is a person sat in a hut.

IshmaelZ said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Heathener said:

We really need Russian generals to turn on Putin.

I think they'll already be communicating with each other in some way off record, and with the oligarchs.

I think this misunderstands the oligarchs position. The deal is Putin allows them to rob Russia blind in exchange for complete political non involvement, on pain of polonium or 30 years in prison. They just aren't in any useful loop.

MarqueeMark said:

Benpointer said:

No idea if this is genuine but it made me laugh. It's the cigarette that's the killer...

"In #Berdyansk, a man removed a mine from under a bridge."

https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/1497937454573232132?s=20&t=SjM6i2CPtJH-xDBzbjZLsg

Throughout this campaign, the world has certainly learnt one thing: Ukraine is a place full of the craziest fun people. Not just the guy carrying the mine, but the guy standing next to him filming it! As they laugh about it....

MarqueeMark said:

Leon said:

Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument

They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently

The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.

I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it

Almost as unlikely as the alliance that has come to Ukraine's aid. Which is everybody else.

(Initially typed as UKraine. Which I rather like. Just - don't anyone tell Boris. He'll have a 50p coin with that on by tea-time....)

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument

They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently

The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.

I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it

Amazing! What are the chances, eh?

Are you sure they weren't rabid woke Remoaners as well?

(PS How dumb are you to fall for this shit?)

tlg86 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/tensions-rise-at-the-3bn-surrey-estate-russian-oligarchs-call-home

The warning to rich Russians linked to Putin that the UK government “will come after you” and ensure oligarchs have “nowhere to hide” is likely to hit hard at the gated luxury housing estate in Surrey dubbed “Britain’s Beverly Hills”.

Russians and those from former Soviet states own more than a quarter of the 430 luxurious homes in St George’s Hill, a heavily guarded 964-acre estate near Weybridge, Surrey, where mansions have changed hands for more than £20m each.