In the betting, the money goes on Putin surviving – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Wasn't that to enter a Gurdwara? Sikh temple.DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
As an aside, has any recent Prime Minister eschewed the dressing up box? Tony Blair maybe? And I can't remember John Major as a faux soldier although he did wear a turban once iirc.
I, too, wore a turban to enter the Golden Temple in Amritsar. You can't otherwise.
I reckon that's an entirely different case.4 -
Yes, I've heard that too. In general, both Russia and China seem to be at the late-autocracy stage that Franco's Spain got to, where individuals are pretty free to get on with their lives and grumble to friends, though any kind of organised opposition is still suppressed. That includes a degree of tolerance of chat on social media, and potentially some trial balloons with official sanction..Unpopular said:
Also the possibility that they're sending a flag up. Have a friend in Shanghai, and he told me that stuff like that is fairly common. The CCP communicates not just through state owned media, but other sectors also. Gives a fig-leaf of plurality (within the narrow confines it is permitted).kle4 said:
Will they disappear for months then insist they are fine and their words misinterpreted?Andy_JS said:"‘They were fooled by Putin’: Chinese historians speak out against Russian invasion
An open letter written by five historians denounced the war and called on Beijing to make its stance clearer"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/they-were-fooled-by-putin-chinese-historians-speak-out-against-russian-invasion
The problem with authoritarian regimes is that they're so difficult to read. That applies to the rulers too, and so (those that take a passing interest) need mechanisms to determine the public mood.
A Chinese friend told me last year, "If I tell my friends that the President is an idiot, probably nothing will happen to me. If I try to organise a group to say it, that is something else." The problem is that as a concerned citizen you never know whether saying something critical will be (a) listened to or (b) shrugged off or (c) get you in trouble, so many people self-censor themselves when they might not have needed to. I think the group of 5 historians is being quite brave (unless as you say it's a licensed operation), as it inches towards "organised opposition".
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I believe the Ukrainian position is that a ceasefire and Russian withdrawal is required before any substantive post conflict deal can be discussed.kle4 said:
It would be interesting to see the reaction of Ukrainers and western supporters if a deal were hammered out which was still felt to be too generous to Putin by many.Nigelb said:https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1498238815781232643
The Ukrainian delegation has arrived in the area of the Ukrainian-Belarusian border to take part in talks with Russian representatives, the Ukrainian President's Office reports. The key issue of the talks is an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine...
..The delegation includes:
- Davyd Arakhamia (SoP faction head)
- Oleksiy Reznikov (Defense Minister)
- Mykhailo Podoliak (presidential office adviser)
- Andriy Kostin (first UA head in TCG)
- MP Rustem Umerov
- Mykola Tochytskyi (deputy FM)0 -
To whom?JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)0 -
Cyprus joined the EU, despite the island still being divided following the Turkish invasion decades ago.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
If there's still a functioning Ukrainian government in charge of substantial Ukrainian territory after a durable ceasefire then it's easy to see Free Ukraine put on an accelerated pathway to EU membership.
There's also a Croatian scenario, where the Ukrainian military is rapidly reinforced, to the point that they are able to retake the occupied territories before becoming EU members.0 -
To this humble self-effacing public servantRoger said:
To whom?JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
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Given that the number of pigs slaughtered in the UK is about 11 million per year I don't think the number reputed to have been culled would merit being called a ripple let alone a spike and would certainly not have had an effect on prices.NickPalmer said:
On that point, increased culling leads to a temporary spike in supply, and hence no price increase. Longer term it does look as though the British herd will shrink because of the shortage of skilled workers (especially in slaughterhouses), which means more imports and probably higher prices down the line. The alternative would be to acknowledge the area as one entitling people to permanent visas, which would give the British industry a chance to recruit.another_richard said:
2) Morrisons selling British pork fillets for £6/kg.
Given that we were told that British pigs would have to be culled on mass its curious that one of the few foods not to have increased in price seems to be pork.
There were reports that Home Office Ministers were sanctioning prisoners on day release to help in slaughterhouses, and my organisation expressed unease about that as it's a job that really does need proper training, but we were told that this was understood and any prisoners engaged would only be employed for routine back office work - so it hasn't fixed the supply chain problem, and I think was more of a bright idea in the Home Office than a serious solution.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/cattle-sheep-and-pig-slaughter/monthly-uk-statistics-on-cattle-sheep-and-pig-slaughter-and-meat-production-statistics-notice-data-to-january-20220 -
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/10 -
But how would you legislate for a "middling outcome"? How could Ukraine remain in Moscow's orbit with some semblance of representative government?Leon said:Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
But all this depends, anyway, on a highly benign outcome which seems most unlikely, right now. A middling outcome is a Russian “retreat” with guarantees that Ukraine stays in Moscow’s orbit.
Even before the invasion the vast majority of Ukrainians, if given the choice, preferred the US as their partner. (According to polling by Frank Luntz.). Now they've been completely radicalised.
Surely, there is no "middling outcome", apart, maybe, dismemberment and Russia taking over as much of the East as it can swallow.
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To the moral arbiters of PB of course!Roger said:
To whom?JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)1 -
Love this news headline from Taiwan:
Russia proof that dictators are untrustworthy: experts
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2022/02/28/20037739182 -
President Vladimir V. Putin had called an emergency meeting with his top finance officials.
Vlad: "I demand to know how this has happened? Why is my economic collapsing? Why are my foreign reserves lost?"
Finance officials: "Because you went to war against our cousins you twat."2 -
0
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The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
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Ok, I'll send her an email. But, oh dear, she is a massive self-promoter. That's my impression anyway.JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)0 -
Kira Rudik
@kiraincongress
·
2h
As expected, ruble is down 25% and now 1$ = 105.2 rub. #Sanctions work! Now every Russian citizen will have to calculate how much the war against #Ukraine costs him.
https://twitter.com/kiraincongress/status/14982151717681725460 -
"Because you went to war against our cousins you tw..."rottenborough said:President Vladimir V. Putin had called an emergency meeting with his top finance officials.
Vlad: "I demand to know how this has happened? Why is my economic collapsing? Why are my foreign reserves lost?"
Finance officials: "Because you went to war against our cousins you twat."
Bang.2 -
How one longs for the opportunity to add captions to Downfallrottenborough said:President Vladimir V. Putin had called an emergency meeting with his top finance officials.
Vlad: "I demand to know how this has happened? Why is my economic collapsing? Why are my foreign reserves lost?"
Finance officials: "Because you went to war against our cousins you twat."
2 -
There was a single report a few weeks back of a much-decorated general criticising Putin's aggressive policy, but he was (a) retired and (b) known to be close to the Communist Party. Possibly, though, he has still-active friends...Andy_JS said:
All those with a modicum of independence have probably already been cleared out by Putin.Heathener said:We really need Russian generals to turn on Putin.
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It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.0 -
If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.4 -
Kwasi Kwarteng@KwasiKwartengPlease read: thread on energy security 🧵
The North Sea is our single largest source of gas, with the bulk of our imports coming from reliable Norway.
Unlike Europe, we're not reliant on Russian gas.
But like others, we are vulnerable to high prices set by markets.
(1/9)
https://twitter.com/KwasiKwarteng/status/14981972811447255052 -
This is utopian nonsense. Ukraine is going to be a disputed land for a long time, possibly a war zone. In no position to sign up to solemn binding treaties with consequent commitmentsLostPassword said:
Cyprus joined the EU, despite the island still being divided following the Turkish invasion decades ago.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
If there's still a functioning Ukrainian government in charge of substantial Ukrainian territory after a durable ceasefire then it's easy to see Free Ukraine put on an accelerated pathway to EU membership.
There's also a Croatian scenario, where the Ukrainian military is rapidly reinforced, to the point that they are able to retake the occupied territories before becoming EU members.
And wtf is a Croatian scenario? Ukraine is fighting RUSSIA. A military superpower with 6000 nukes and a warlike spirit. The Russian army is not looking very impressive right now but it is still the Russian army and they don’t take defeat easily, they can suffer a lot of pain and still win (ask napoleon or Hitler) and if cornered they could destroy us and them
The idea the EU would rapidly reinforce the Ukrainians so they could “retake Crimea” from a wounded, growling Russia is dangerous gibberish7 -
You're tight. He should have tried to put a stop to her two years agoMattW said:
It isn't. That image is from 2021. I'd guess taken by the Daily Mail photographer during the HMS Queen Elizabeth World Tour.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?0 -
Fair enough. But I doubt you'd approve of much she did, short of resignation.kinabalu said:
Ok, I'll send her an email. But, oh dear, she is a massive self-promoter. That's my impression anyway.JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)0 -
"Unless properly trained" - how many ex-squaddies are there?Nigelb said:
He's right.Scott_xP said:Defence Secretary Ben Wallace tells @SkyNews that unless properly trained, Brits are better off helping Ukraine by other means than travelling there to fight, watering down what Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said Sunday
https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1498195752111255561
I'd note, though, that Ukraine has a legal mechanism (in place since 2015) for foreign fighters to join their armed forces.
There's even a 3 year path to citizenship.
Why does this government always have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing? Britain has done well over intelligence sharing and arms. It should be doing much better on refugees.Scott_xP said:NEW: Conservative MP @TomTugendhat says he’s spoken to ministers who expect that the government will alter its offer to Ukrainian refugees in the coming days.
He anticipates the UK will follow the EU and allow any Ukrainian to come here for 3 years without a need for a visa.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/14982019179477975072 -
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?0 -
James Longman
@JamesAALongman
·
4h
European military support is behind them. Kiev still stands. Russian troops exhausted and demoralised. Ruble has plummeted against the dollar. Putin may have scared his own side with talk of nukes
Ukraine’s position is stronger than anyone thought it might be just a week ago
https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman1 -
Double standards from Germany (but not surprising given that change will take time)
zerohedge
@zerohedge
German Ministry Says Buying Russian Gas Still Possible Via SWIFT0 -
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.2 -
Half of Cyprus joined the EU ie the Greek part and Turkey does not have nuclear weapons like Russia does.LostPassword said:
Cyprus joined the EU, despite the island still being divided following the Turkish invasion decades ago.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
If there's still a functioning Ukrainian government in charge of substantial Ukrainian territory after a durable ceasefire then it's easy to see Free Ukraine put on an accelerated pathway to EU membership.
There's also a Croatian scenario, where the Ukrainian military is rapidly reinforced, to the point that they are able to retake the occupied territories before becoming EU members.
I think the idea that the Ukranian military can expel the much larger Russian army from the country without full scale military support from NATO is also wishful thinking, in which case we would be in WW3 anyway.
Russia is a military superpower, Serbia was not. The Croatian scenario is also not really relevant1 -
Completely agree:
Less than a week into the war, it seems increasingly likely that Vladimir Putin is heading towards a historic defeat. He may win all the battles but lose the war. Putin’s dream of rebuilding the Russian empire has always rested on the lie that Ukraine isn’t a real nation, that Ukrainians aren’t a real people, and that the inhabitants of Kyiv, Kharkiv and Lviv yearn for Moscow’s rule. That’s a complete lie – Ukraine is a nation with more than a thousand years of history, and Kyiv was already a major metropolis when Moscow was not even a village. But the Russian despot has told his lie so many times that he apparently believes it himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/vladimir-putin-war-russia-ukraine2 -
Cyprus is occupied by another NATO member, of course.LostPassword said:
Cyprus joined the EU, despite the island still being divided following the Turkish invasion decades ago.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
If there's still a functioning Ukrainian government in charge of substantial Ukrainian territory after a durable ceasefire then it's easy to see Free Ukraine put on an accelerated pathway to EU membership.
There's also a Croatian scenario, where the Ukrainian military is rapidly reinforced, to the point that they are able to retake the occupied territories before becoming EU members.0 -
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over4 -
If Liz is engaging in naked self-promotion, that does smack of desperation.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?1 -
Yeah, we all know your view. Any woman should just put up to being abused by the 'talent', or become hairdressers. How *dare* a woman become prominent in her own right?Roger said:
You're tight. He should have tried to put a stop to her two years agoMattW said:
It isn't. That image is from 2021. I'd guess taken by the Daily Mail photographer during the HMS Queen Elizabeth World Tour.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
Those comments never aged well, did they Rog? Given what happened in your industry.
Your (and Kinbalu's) attitude might also explain why Labour's never elected a female leader.0 -
Given Boris has hired a dedicated photographer to follow him around, I'm not sure his friends should complain too loudly if Rishi, Liz and Penny post to Instagram. The same pose recurs, head slightly turned and shot from below. Is this the modern version of the Tory power stance?0
-
SickeningChameleon said:Gloves are off - cluster munitions in civilian areas
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/14982410643475742720 -
I think you are the guy who I spent 3 days saying "there is no fund, the concept is irrelevant" and you kept saying "but where is this fund you keep going on about?" And when I gave up you said Hur hur hur, I knew in the end I would get you to admit there was no fund. I am sure your victory over the Scots was equally comprehensive.MattW said:
It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.
0 -
A politician with a penchant for self-promotion? Surely not?kinabalu said:
Ok, I'll send her an email. But, oh dear, she is a massive self-promoter. That's my impression anyway.JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
Show me the senior politician who doesn't send out photos of themselves in positions/contexts designed to appeal to voters...
I wouldn't say it's a positive aspect of democracy. But it is a very mild negative I am very happy to bear in exchange for all the other positives democracy brings.
2 -
Can I do some naked self-promotion? Anyone want piccies of a hairy man?Northern_Al said:
If Liz is engaging in naked self-promotion, that does smack of desperation.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Although much less hairy than this time yesterday ...)0 -
The rock tunnelling shaped charge idea came out of Project Orion. Shaped charges were part of the design for that.kle4 said:
Not as cool an idea as that one about propelling ships by launching nuclear missiles out the back.Malmesbury said:
If you just want to ram a hole in the ground, Ted Taylor was of the opinion that he could design a nuclear shaped charge that would dig a tunnel 1000 feet long by 10-20 feet.JosiasJessop said:
Yeah, my tongue might have been slightly in my cheek. It's just something I'd love to see working. From a safe distance...Richard_Tyndall said:
Great for shallow holes but no good for anything of any great depth. The big issue will remain the inability to get the drilled rock out of the hole. It mentions carrying fragments up to 15cm across but there is a rapid loss of lift as the cuttings get further from the source of the lift (the rocket) and eventually they will fall back and block the hole behind the device.JosiasJessop said:
From the deep, dark recesses of my mind, another issue is that unless carefully planned, they get less efficient as the extraction of hot water cools the surrounding rock faster than the heat can be replenished. Basically, you keep on needing to drill to 'get' heat into the system.Malmesbury said:
The biggest problem with deep geothermal has been the cost of drilling the hole. These guys are claiming to have a novel, cheap method for that. I am a bit skeptical.....JosiasJessop said:
There's actually a working geothermal heating system in the middle of Southampton.Carnyx said:
I saw the Cornish experiment in the mid-80s - Camborne School of Mines Hot Dry Rock Geothermal Project in the Carnmenellis granite. I believe the Eden Project is involved in experiments that way. But this new thing sounds much deeper.eek said:Utterly offtopic but not posted yet
https://interestingengineering.com/energy-company-plans-geothermal-energy?presentid=webnews
A new renewable energy source is being tested - drill 8 miles down and use the geothermal heat.
"By 2007, the system had 11 km (6.8 miles) of pipes, and was producing 40 GWh of heat, 22 GWh of electricity and 8 GWh of cooling per year."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_District_Energy_Scheme
Don't know why that's different in Southampton. I think Ian West's geology website has something on it...
As an aside, if you want to dig a deep vertical tunnel, then Mikhail Tsiferov's rocket-engine tunnelling machine is perfect. Drills at five metres per minute through rock, faster through soil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_rocket1 -
If you have to ask you are never going to understand.BartholomewRoberts said:
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?
1 -
and to trigger some more peopleJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
0 -
Your wish....IshmaelZ said:
How one longs for the opportunity to add captions to Downfallrottenborough said:President Vladimir V. Putin had called an emergency meeting with his top finance officials.
Vlad: "I demand to know how this has happened? Why is my economic collapsing? Why are my foreign reserves lost?"
Finance officials: "Because you went to war against our cousins you twat."
Putin in his bunker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qESClEHts
0 -
Can you elucidate on the two Indyrefs that have taken place and both been lost? Either I've missed something huge or you've picked up some strange stuff on the National comments section.MattW said:
It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.0 -
You’re probably right. I was likely being “optimistic”Burgessian said:
But how would you legislate for a "middling outcome"? How could Ukraine remain in Moscow's orbit with some semblance of representative government?Leon said:Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
But all this depends, anyway, on a highly benign outcome which seems most unlikely, right now. A middling outcome is a Russian “retreat” with guarantees that Ukraine stays in Moscow’s orbit.
Even before the invasion the vast majority of Ukrainians, if given the choice, preferred the US as their partner. (According to polling by Frank Luntz.). Now they've been completely radicalised.
Surely, there is no "middling outcome", apart, maybe, dismemberment and Russia taking over as much of the East as it can swallow.
All the most plausible outcomes are bad. Some are very very bad
Putin has launched the stupidest war in Russian history, at least since they lost to the japs in 1905. It’s considerably dumber than Afghanistan1 -
"The rouble’s collapse compounds Russia’s isolation
Capital controls may soon follow, destroying the last vestige of the country's financial credibility"
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/02/28/the-roubles-collapse-compounds-russias-isolation0 -
Certainly won't understand why you've posted the same image many times on this thread.IshmaelZ said:
If you have to ask you are never going to understand.BartholomewRoberts said:
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?
Foreign Secretary of the UK photographed with UK and Ukraine flags . . . oh my the horror. You must be traumatised ...0 -
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.
0 -
'Leave it at that' didn't last very long.JosiasJessop said:
Yeah, we all know your view. Any woman should just put up to being abused by the 'talent', or become hairdressers. How *dare* a woman become prominent in her own right?Roger said:
You're tight. He should have tried to put a stop to her two years agoMattW said:
It isn't. That image is from 2021. I'd guess taken by the Daily Mail photographer during the HMS Queen Elizabeth World Tour.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
Those comments never aged well, did they Rog? Given what happened in your industry.
Your (and Kinbalu's) attitude might also explain why Labour's never elected a female leader.0 -
I would in fact say it is a founding tenet of democracy that we expect our leaders to look like decisive, nuanced, and effective people, in the hope that there is (or ay come to be) some overlap between looking like those things and actually being them.Cookie said:
A politician with a penchant for self-promotion? Surely not?kinabalu said:
Ok, I'll send her an email. But, oh dear, she is a massive self-promoter. That's my impression anyway.JosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
Show me the senior politician who doesn't send out photos of themselves in positions/contexts designed to appeal to voters...
I wouldn't say it's a positive aspect of democracy. But it is a very mild negative I am very happy to bear in exchange for all the other positives democracy brings.2 -
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)
0 -
OK just to calibrate your position here's a different lnikBartholomewRoberts said:
Certainly won't understand why you've posted the same image many times on this thread.IshmaelZ said:
If you have to ask you are never going to understand.BartholomewRoberts said:
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?
Foreign Secretary of the UK photographed with UK and Ukraine flags . . . oh my the horror. You must be traumatised ...
Do you own the original or a full size reproduction of
https://twitter.com/talkradio/status/10609279872002457600 -
I imagine the prep for that meeting is largely "how do we avoid it going like this, followed by us on an unheated train east?"rottenborough said:President Vladimir V. Putin had called an emergency meeting with his top finance officials.
Vlad: "I demand to know how this has happened? Why is my economic collapsing? Why are my foreign reserves lost?"
Finance officials: "Because you went to war against our cousins you twat."2 -
That's so unfair. They don't even have a Mr Benn.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Christ, it really is government by dressing up box for these people.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?0 -
For you who have turned virtue signalling into an art form.....you can bore the pants off the BBC complaints department for years with this one ....JosiasJessop said:
Yeah, we all know your view. Any woman should just put up to being abused by the 'talent', or become hairdressers. How *dare* a woman become prominent in her own right?Roger said:
You're tight. He should have tried to put a stop to her two years agoMattW said:
It isn't. That image is from 2021. I'd guess taken by the Daily Mail photographer during the HMS Queen Elizabeth World Tour.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
Those comments never aged well, did they Rog? Given what happened in your industry.
Your (and Kinbalu's) attitude might also explain why Labour's never elected a female leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0014qdv
0 -
I take that to be a different argument.Theuniondivvie said:
'Leave it at that' didn't last very long.JosiasJessop said:
Yeah, we all know your view. Any woman should just put up to being abused by the 'talent', or become hairdressers. How *dare* a woman become prominent in her own right?Roger said:
You're tight. He should have tried to put a stop to her two years agoMattW said:
It isn't. That image is from 2021. I'd guess taken by the Daily Mail photographer during the HMS Queen Elizabeth World Tour.kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
Those comments never aged well, did they Rog? Given what happened in your industry.
Your (and Kinbalu's) attitude might also explain why Labour's never elected a female leader. 0 -
He wasn't; not in relation to that photo. And even with the photo you repeatedly linked to (do you have a fetish?), so blooming what?IshmaelZ said:
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.1 -
Who benefits more from a ceasefire? Are you just giving the Russians time to sort out their supply?0
-
So basically no family at all.Scott_xP said:UK pledge to take Ukrainian refugees with family in Britain excludes brothers, sisters, adult children and parents
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukraine-refugees-uk-family-russia-b2024712.html
Shameful.3 -
True but we had a bigger and more effective military than Argentina and Argentina did not have nuclear weapons, the reverse applies to Russia.Burgessian said:
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)
The UK could probably beat the militaries of most nations on earth alone still today however Russia, China and the USA we would not be able to beat and it is Russia involved in this war0 -
I think Gallipolli was much more constructive for Australia than the Falklands were for Britain. In Britain they fed the continuation of post-imperial delusions in isolation from our continent , that was part of the background of Brexit. That doesn't mean it wasn't right to protect the population having completely messed up the policy in the run-up, ofcourse, but in the long-term I don't think the legacy was a particularly positive one.Burgessian said:
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)0 -
Patrick Wintour
@patrickwintour
·
15m
Jerusalem Post: "Roman Abramovich in Belarus assisting in Ukraine-Russia talks at Kyiv's request".0 -
Do you actually think a photo of the Foreign Secretary of the UK stood in front of the UK and Ukraine flags while we're allied with Ukraine during a war is remotely comparable to a kitsch fanfic painting of the then PM flying through the air riding a lion?IshmaelZ said:
OK just to calibrate your position here's a different lnikBartholomewRoberts said:
Certainly won't understand why you've posted the same image many times on this thread.IshmaelZ said:
If you have to ask you are never going to understand.BartholomewRoberts said:
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?
Foreign Secretary of the UK photographed with UK and Ukraine flags . . . oh my the horror. You must be traumatised ...
Do you own the original or a full size reproduction of
https://twitter.com/talkradio/status/10609279872002457600 -
ECB assesses that Sberbank Europe AG and its subsidiaries in Croatia and Slovenia are failing or likely to fail
https://www.bankingsupervision.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2022/html/ssm.pr220228~3121b6aec1.en.html0 -
At Kyiv's request????rottenborough said:
Patrick Wintour
@patrickwintour
·
15m
Jerusalem Post: "Roman Abramovich in Belarus assisting in Ukraine-Russia talks at Kyiv's request".0 -
Yes, I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few years. How and where and when does a nation decide itself such? In many cases it is in opposition to a hostile outside power. For England, it was the Vikings - there was no England before there was a common enemy for the 'English' peoples to unite against; for Wales, it was the English (and/or the Normans); for Germany, it was Napoleon. Ukraine is a country with a history that is hard to pin down and a recent past which has not exactly screamed national unity of identity. Now, however, Vladimir Putin has given Ukraine its founding myth.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over0 -
Liz Truss is 46.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/10 -
Yep - it's our third attempt to sound generous and the devil in the detail was that our offer was a complete and utter lie.Cyclefree said:
So basically no family at all.Scott_xP said:UK pledge to take Ukrainian refugees with family in Britain excludes brothers, sisters, adult children and parents
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukraine-refugees-uk-family-russia-b2024712.html
Shameful.
But hey what else would anyone else expect from Bozo and his bunch of circus clowns.0 -
Is not the big problem here that the whole Putin schtick is about being revenged for the national humiliation of the break-up of the USSR and all that followed?
And now he's faced with the Mother Of All Humiliations.
Someone who is, literally, a comedian, raising two fingers, and saying "F*ck you, Vladimir". And the rest of the world providing an avid audience for the come down.
This is looking pretty bad.1 -
The point about it is that it is pointless. In the october one she is at least *doing* something related to her job. The one from last week isn't even dressed up with an excuse that say she is having a presser with a Ukr bod which would be a reason for the two flags. It is simply time wasting Instagramming. Your position is pretty much on a par with demanding someone apologise to Harold Shipman's family for saying he killed 234 people when the actual count is 233JosiasJessop said:
He wasn't; not in relation to that photo. And even with the photo you repeatedly linked to (do you have a fetish?), so blooming what?IshmaelZ said:
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.
When we see tories riding to the defence of a verray parfit blonde in battledress I think it is reasonably clear where the fetish lies.
0 -
No. Not me.IshmaelZ said:
I think you are the guy who I spent 3 days saying "there is no fund, the concept is irrelevant" and you kept saying "but where is this fund you keep going on about?" And when I gave up you said Hur hur hur, I knew in the end I would get you to admit there was no fund. I am sure your victory over the Scots was equally comprehensive.MattW said:
It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.0 -
As important as any of that is a vision of the future.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war....
...But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ukraine has one; Russia is clinging onto an image of something that died in 1989.2 -
That’s fascinating. Maybe the rich guys really can persuade Putin to back off. They can all see that this is a catastrophe for Russia and the Russian economyrottenborough said:
Patrick Wintour
@patrickwintour
·
15m
Jerusalem Post: "Roman Abramovich in Belarus assisting in Ukraine-Russia talks at Kyiv's request".0 -
OK sorryMattW said:
No. Not me.IshmaelZ said:
I think you are the guy who I spent 3 days saying "there is no fund, the concept is irrelevant" and you kept saying "but where is this fund you keep going on about?" And when I gave up you said Hur hur hur, I knew in the end I would get you to admit there was no fund. I am sure your victory over the Scots was equally comprehensive.MattW said:
It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.
0 -
Yup. It's them, as I mentioned earlier - but in tandem with the army somewhere.Leon said:
That’s fascinating. Maybe the rich guys really can persuade Putin to back off. They can all see that this is a catastrophe for Russia and the Russian economyrottenborough said:
Patrick Wintour
@patrickwintour
·
15m
Jerusalem Post: "Roman Abramovich in Belarus assisting in Ukraine-Russia talks at Kyiv's request".0 -
Ha. You have me on that one. I assumed 1979 was Indy, not devolution.Theuniondivvie said:
Can you elucidate on the two Indyrefs that have taken place and both been lost? Either I've missed something huge or you've picked up some strange stuff on the National comments section.MattW said:
It's like a distinctly Scottish version of Not the Nine O Clock News. Amusing at times. Watching them trying to get to grips with pay-as-you-go State Pensions was an education.Theuniondivvie said:
There have been some weird kinks on PB, but some bloke in the English sticks logging on to comments threads at The National is right up there.MattW said:
Point of Order.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
Would that not be Indyref III, since they have already had two goes and lost both?
If you want to find some genuine Scottish cavemen, log on to any comments thread at the National.
I see nothing wrong in reading a diverse media selection. The antics of my local council Deputy Leader are also interesting - currently due up before the beak on about 3 separate charges.
Somehow he managed to turn Driving without Due Care and Attention into Obstructing the Police and Resisting Arrest. Plus there is another set to do with parking his caravan such that his neighbour could not get into her house via the side door, which ended up with various harrassment type things. It keeps getting delayed, so there are even episodes.0 -
I am not a Tory.IshmaelZ said:
The point about it is that it is pointless. In the october one she is at least *doing* something related to her job. The one from last week isn't even dressed up with an excuse that say she is having a presser with a Ukr bod which would be a reason for the two flags. It is simply time wasting Instagramming. Your position is pretty much on a par with demanding someone apologise to Harold Shipman's family for saying he killed 234 people when the actual count is 233JosiasJessop said:
He wasn't; not in relation to that photo. And even with the photo you repeatedly linked to (do you have a fetish?), so blooming what?IshmaelZ said:
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.
When we see tories riding to the defence of a verray parfit blonde in battledress I think it is reasonably clear where the fetish lies.
If you haven't worked that out yet, there's little hope for you...
(Cue: we are all PB Tories now, comrade!)0 -
Just verified that and found she was at my college at Oxford. A bad morning.Andy_JS said:
Liz Truss is 46.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
0 -
The Foreign Secretary of the UK expressing support for our Ukrainian friends and allies while they're being invaded is not a waste of time.IshmaelZ said:
The point about it is that it is pointless. In the october one she is at least *doing* something related to her job. The one from last week isn't even dressed up with an excuse that say she is having a presser with a Ukr bod which would be a reason for the two flags. It is simply time wasting Instagramming. Your position is pretty much on a par with demanding someone apologise to Harold Shipman's family for saying he killed 234 people when the actual count is 233JosiasJessop said:
He wasn't; not in relation to that photo. And even with the photo you repeatedly linked to (do you have a fetish?), so blooming what?IshmaelZ said:
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.
When we see tories riding to the defence of a verray parfit blonde in battledress I think it is reasonably clear where the fetish lies.
But if your objection is simply to people using Instagram then you just sound like a bitter and twisted old man banging on about young people of today going on television and not just the radio.
The issue is in your head, not a problem with her.1 -
Maybe but a ceasefire also allows the sanctions time to filter through into the Russian economy.TheWhiteRabbit said:Who benefits more from a ceasefire? Are you just giving the Russians time to sort out their supply?
The Russian central bank just put rates up to 20%, that alone may have big impact on their economy and ordinary Russians - and plenty of other hits are about to come.
Their economy wasn't great before the sanctions, how long can they keep this show on the road in those circumstances?0 -
She looked younger than her age until about 5 years ago. Must be a tough job being in cabinet.IshmaelZ said:
Just verified that and found she was at my college at Oxford. A bad morning.Andy_JS said:
Liz Truss is 46.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/10 -
Sure.BartholomewRoberts said:
The Foreign Secretary of the UK expressing support for our Ukrainian friends and allies while they're being invaded is not a waste of time.IshmaelZ said:
The point about it is that it is pointless. In the october one she is at least *doing* something related to her job. The one from last week isn't even dressed up with an excuse that say she is having a presser with a Ukr bod which would be a reason for the two flags. It is simply time wasting Instagramming. Your position is pretty much on a par with demanding someone apologise to Harold Shipman's family for saying he killed 234 people when the actual count is 233JosiasJessop said:
He wasn't; not in relation to that photo. And even with the photo you repeatedly linked to (do you have a fetish?), so blooming what?IshmaelZ said:
And I linked to a very similar photo showing that he is without a shadow of a doubt right.JosiasJessop said:
It isn't. Kinbalu linked that photo and made out she was taking advantage of the current situation. He was wrong.IshmaelZ said:
The assumption being: if you have a woman in her 50s who is a pretentious posing airhead in Oct 2021 she is probably no different in feb 2022. seems fair.JosiasJessop said:
No, he really doesn't. Kinbalu was the one making a political point out of an out-of-context picture. At best, he jumped to an assumption.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
Still, I guess I'm going to get piled-on here, so I'll leave it at that.
When we see tories riding to the defence of a verray parfit blonde in battledress I think it is reasonably clear where the fetish lies.
But if your objection is simply to people using Instagram then you just sound like a bitter and twisted old man banging on about young people of today going on television and not just the radio.
The issue is in your head, not a problem with her.
0 -
Talk this morning is that Putin has so far only sent in mainly Russian conscripts with limited air support to see if he can get a low cost, easy victory.Burgessian said:Is not the big problem here that the whole Putin schtick is about being revenged for the national humiliation of the break-up of the USSR and all that followed?
And now he's faced with the Mother Of All Humiliations.
Someone who is, literally, a comedian, raising two fingers, and saying "F*ck you, Vladimir". And the rest of the world providing an avid audience for the come down.
This is looking pretty bad.
He has held back from sending in the most elite Russian troops and heavy armour and tanks but they are on standby ready to move towards Kyiv suppported by a massive bombing campaign from the Russian airforce if it has not fallen within a week or so0 -
I wonder whether, to a lesser extent, the same might be true for the EU.eek said:Snip...
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Of course, their not fighting Russia, but they're facing an external threat together, and the details of national interests are being reduced by the pressure of events.0 -
I remember at the time thinking “another chapter in the continuing decline of the West” - less than 7 years after the fall of Saigon - but it took Thatcher - as you observe - against a lot of the chattering classes to say enough!! I also recall the slightly condescending Time magazine cover of the task force with the headline “The Empire Strikes Back”.Burgessian said:
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)1 -
Anyway, onto more substantive stuff.
Two points:
1) IMV tthe operation is not going as well or swiftly as Russia hoped - although perhaps not disastrously badly.
2) The sanctions put on Russia are much stronger than I feared, and involve many more nations in concert. Their economy is going to be hurt badly. I very much doubt that Russia expected a response of this sort of strength, especially with the disunity that the west showed after their previous behaviour. If they haven't factored it into their plans, it makes things harder for them.
Put these together, I do wonder if a settlement is more appealing to them today than yesterday.0 -
His "Groupe de ravitaillement en vol 2/91 Bretagne" patch is very much on the piss. That's the real crime here.Malmesbury said:
and to trigger some more peopleJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)0 -
An authoritarian regime like Russia makes the EU nations' minor differences appear trivial. And also ours with the EU.LostPassword said:
I wonder whether, to a lesser extent, the same might be true for the EU.eek said:Snip...
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Of course, their not fighting Russia, but they're facing an external threat together, and the details of national interests are being reduced by the pressure of events.
We're not all that different.
(That does not mean I want to rejoin; just that we can be good partners.)1 -
It didn't do much for the coherence of the west in the long-run, however.CarlottaVance said:
I remember at the time thinking “another chapter in the continuing decline of the West” - less than 7 years after the fall of Saigon - but it took Thatcher - as you observe - against a lot of the chattering classes to say enough!! I also recall the slightly condescending Time magazine cover of the task force with the headline “The Empire Strikes Back”.Burgessian said:
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)0 -
I suspect a lot of that is the sudden realisation by Germany that the world isn't working the way they thought it is.LostPassword said:
I wonder whether, to a lesser extent, the same might be true for the EU.eek said:Snip...
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Of course, their not fighting Russia, but they're facing an external threat together, and the details of national interests are being reduced by the pressure of events.
Mind you I do look at German energy policy and think WTF have you been thinking - there are obvious flaws here that make no sense..0 -
Do you think that last guy in the line is eying up that rather tight flight suit?Dura_Ace said:
His "Groupe de ravitaillement en vol 2/91 Bretagne" patch is very much on the piss. That's the real crime here.Malmesbury said:
and to trigger some more peopleJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)1 -
I think it triggers the same dopamine receptors in your headBartholomewRoberts said:
Do you actually think a photo of the Foreign Secretary of the UK stood in front of the UK and Ukraine flags while we're allied with Ukraine during a war is remotely comparable to a kitsch fanfic painting of the then PM flying through the air riding a lion?IshmaelZ said:
OK just to calibrate your position here's a different lnikBartholomewRoberts said:
Certainly won't understand why you've posted the same image many times on this thread.IshmaelZ said:
If you have to ask you are never going to understand.BartholomewRoberts said:
QTWAIN.IshmaelZ said:
Please look at this and consider whether @kinabalu has the vaguest hint of a point hereJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
https://twitter.com/crackerjackpen/status/1497889292336578565/photo/1
What's wrong with that photo in your eyes?
Foreign Secretary of the UK photographed with UK and Ukraine flags . . . oh my the horror. You must be traumatised ...
Do you own the original or a full size reproduction of
https://twitter.com/talkradio/status/1060927987200245760
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Yes, for sure. Putin has done the one thing which ensures he defeats his own objectives. He has created a Ukraine which defines itself as “not Russia”Cookie said:
Yes, I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few years. How and where and when does a nation decide itself such? In many cases it is in opposition to a hostile outside power. For England, it was the Vikings - there was no England before there was a common enemy for the 'English' peoples to unite against; for Wales, it was the English (and/or the Normans); for Germany, it was Napoleon. Ukraine is a country with a history that is hard to pin down and a recent past which has not exactly screamed national unity of identity. Now, however, Vladimir Putin has given Ukraine its founding myth.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Nearly all nations are defined, in part, by their perceived enemies or rivals
Great Britain was constructed as “not France, not Catholic, not normal mainland Europe”. An enduring self image - as Brexit proves0 -
I've bookmarked your comment. If Zelenskyy survives I'm increasingly optimistic about Ukrainian prospects.Leon said:
This is utopian nonsense. Ukraine is going to be a disputed land for a long time, possibly a war zone. In no position to sign up to solemn binding treaties with consequent commitmentsLostPassword said:
Cyprus joined the EU, despite the island still being divided following the Turkish invasion decades ago.HYUFD said:
Unless all Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil and/or Putin has been toppled as President of Russia, Ukraine is not going into the EU, NATO or any other block as it will still have much of its territory occupied by Russia.Theuniondivvie said:
For someone who regularly states indy ref II is dead, you certainly manage to regurgitate a lot of PF II stuff.Burgessian said:
Oh, still "is" for quite a few.Theuniondivvie said:
Is or was? The past is another country.Burgessian said:
Anti-NATO sentiment is quite mainstream within the SNP. Their official policy for many years was to withdraw from NATO, only changing it before IndyRef2 when they realised it was polling very badly and was a drag on their chances. Angus Robertson, who presided over the U-turn, took a lot of stick at the time.Theuniondivvie said:
I think those ‘rabid Scots Nats’ are almost entirely Albanians and supporters of Salmond (an individual for whom you were a Pom Pom girl a year ago)? Presumably you’d have shared some common ground over their pro Putin stance only a couple of months ago.Leon said:Friend of mine finally found a bunch of British pro-Putin, pro-Russian-army, “fuck Ukraine” types on Twitter - spoiling for an argument
They were all rabid Scot Nats. Hate NATO, apparently
The cheerleaders for the Kremlin are an extremely motley crew, from Fox News to Ultra Scot Nats to Farageists and Stop the War. And one of my parents.
I’m not sure I can recall an alliance like it
I'm old enough to remember when the SCons were a strongly pro EU party (or sub branch as the case may be).
Linked to that is the policy to throw out Trident and wax lyrical about the immorality of possessing nuclear weapons. Despite NATO being an explicitly nuclear alliance. Of course, you don't have to have nukes to be in NATO, but stripping one of its three members to possess them of their capacity is rather problematic in a NATO context. Would go down extremely badly with US so almost certainly an IndyScot would wriggle out of it if it came to it, but all the same.
Gonnae love seeing all those yeahbutnobutyeah the EU is eevul types working out which way to jump on Ukraine being fast tracked into the EU.
If Kyiv falls to Putin's troops that will be even more the case
If there's still a functioning Ukrainian government in charge of substantial Ukrainian territory after a durable ceasefire then it's easy to see Free Ukraine put on an accelerated pathway to EU membership.
There's also a Croatian scenario, where the Ukrainian military is rapidly reinforced, to the point that they are able to retake the occupied territories before becoming EU members.
And wtf is a Croatian scenario? Ukraine is fighting RUSSIA. A military superpower with 6000 nukes and a warlike spirit. The Russian army is not looking very impressive right now but it is still the Russian army and they don’t take defeat easily, they can suffer a lot of pain and still win (ask napoleon or Hitler) and if cornered they could destroy us and them
The idea the EU would rapidly reinforce the Ukrainians so they could “retake Crimea” from a wounded, growling Russia is dangerous gibberish2 -
And after the Falklands, Mrs Thatcher imposed yet more defence cuts after the ones that had precipitated the invasion in the first place. Remember John Nott walking out of his interview with Robin Day?Burgessian said:
The Falklands was a bit similar. I remember it vividly. All sorts of sensible folk told Mrs Thatcher not to send the task force. Too risky. And, for what? A few farmers and a few sheep. Just negotiate a face-saving deal. Let's be grown up about it. The empire is dead. Etc etc.Leon said:
Definitely true.eek said:If you read the long twitter thread about how Russia will lose the war https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204 when it was first linked here you may have missed the very last part (I've only just found it).
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1498079039696814083
And finally. The very fact of resistance against so much superior enemy very much empowers the Ukrainian mythology. It's enormous mythos building we are witnessing. The very phenomenon of war is inconceivable without taking into account mythological dimension
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Replying to
@kamilkazani
Consider Venice. When Napoleon came they surrendered without a shot. Very smart, saved lives, saved the city. It's just killed the mythos of Venice. People lived but the Republic died. It was never restored and is unlikely to be restored again
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
Theorists of war of the bygone age understood it. Clausewitz pointed out that it's important not only if you lost independence but *how* you lost it. If you submitted without a fight, you saved lives. But you killed your mythos. You'll be digested by the conqueror
Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
·
11h
But if you lost after the brutal and bloody fight your mythos is alive. The memory of the last battle will live through the ages. It will shape the mythological space your descendants live in and they'll attempt to restore independence at the first opportunity. End of thread
As with many previous cases it's possible that Volodymyr Zelenskyy has created a future Ukraine that until last Thursday never actually existed.
Ask Australians when and where Australia was born. They say: the beaches of Gallipoli. A battle which has become this huge mythological event in their minds, the bloody birth of an independent nation, no longer just a British colony
You can see it in the huge moving memorial to the Gallipoli dead in Sydney. It is ground zero of “Australian-ness”. It edges close to kitsch Fascism without, thankfully, crossing over
Fortunately she, and many in the military, took a different line. "What kind of a country are we?" And the Navy, instinctively (apparently it's the least "intellectual" of the services), always heads straight towards the foe. I think they were quite persuasive despite the risks they were taking with men and materiel.
Rest is history.
(Of course, there will have been some political calculation but then, there always is.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_nutGc7p00 -
I think what is coming out of this whole episode is that as the West has sowed, now is it reaping. For 30 years the West defined the world order. Someone out of line? Invade, depose, install a favourable regime. That was realpolitik. No one could or wanted to do anything about it.
I noticed @HYUFD getting a lot of stick on here last night when he was one of the few people who made sense. Yes indeed we are in a world of realpolitik when Russia as is can shout the odds and people have no choice but to listen. This is what the West has done since Desert Storm (and of course before).
So is Putin a madman? Was George W Bush? Was Obama? Perhaps. Each had a vision of a world order which had certain components and wherein actors behaved as they ought to have done and that vision was enforced by force if not voluntarily. And it's Putin's turn now.2 -
Why, if you had such valuable goods, want to exchange them for a worthless currency?Sandpit said:
How much of their dollar reserves are they spending daily, to prop up their own currency on the international markets?DecrepiterJohnL said:
$20 billion a day seems unlikely. 20 billion roubles, maybe, and even then you'd wonder about marginal versus fixed costs. Russia would be paying soldiers' wages even if they had remained in their barracks, for instance.Cookie said:How much is $20bn a day for Russia? According to Wikipedia, Russia's GDP is about $1,600bn. So at this rate Russia burns through its entire GDP in under 100 days.
Of course, its GDP will be negatively impacted by the war, so possibly rather sooner.
I mean, I hope the war doesn't go on for 100 days - but it's an indication of the kind of pressure Russia is under to finish this.
Remember also there will be other things it will be spending its money on besides war...
Even with interest rates lifted to 20%, there’s still a hundred roubles to the dollar today - if you can find someone willing to sell their dollars at anything close to the official rate.
It’ll be a good day for sellers of Western cars, gold, jewelery and electronics in Moscow today, with everyone desparate to swap their roubles for something of intrinsic global value.
Not much use if you can't enjoy the fruits of your robbery.IshmaelZ said:
I think this misunderstands the oligarchs position. The deal is Putin allows them to rob Russia blind in exchange for complete political non involvement, on pain of polonium or 30 years in prison. They just aren't in any useful loop.WhisperingOracle said:
I think they'll already be communicating with each other in some way off record, and with the oligarchs.Heathener said:We really need Russian generals to turn on Putin.
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I’m just surprised they could find one with short enough legs.Dura_Ace said:
His "Groupe de ravitaillement en vol 2/91 Bretagne" patch is very much on the piss. That's the real crime here.Malmesbury said:
and to trigger some more peopleJosiasJessop said:
In which case, Kinbalu should perhaps apologise...DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is an old pic, where old in the context of Ukraine means it was taken more than a week ago.JosiasJessop said:
Are you sure this was a recent pic?kinabalu said:
Naked self-promotion on the back of this is very yucky indeed. Stop it Liz.Theuniondivvie said:
Quite right, let HMG get on with concentrating on the important stuff.Sandpit said:Stupid British media at it again, trying to find dividing lines over asylum policy, UK/EU relations and party funding.
There’s a bloody war on, please can they leave their pet obsessions aside for a few days, and let the politicians concentrate on what’s actually important at the moment?
(Snip)
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