The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Anabobazina said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I see Newcastle are putting together a great squad....for the Championship.

Nope. I think they’ll stay up.

Everton will be a huge game next Tuesday. I’ll be there in the Gallowgate.

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

Liz Truss tests positive for Covid
Not going to Ukraine with Boris.
Was with him today in the Commons.

IanB2 said:

Katy Balls: Gray’s update, in which she was more than keen to stress this was not her report and just a summary, and Johnson’s response to it, has put him back in the danger zone.

When he needed to be statesmanlike and contrite, he was angry and combative – even refusing to commit to publishing the full report once the police investigation was concluded (a position Downing Street has already had to U-turn on).

His attack on Keir Starmer for the failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile (a claim that has been disproven) dismayed even his own MPs – while his questioning of drug use by the Labour frontbench was viewed as simply bizarre. “It was terrible,” says one member of the payroll… behind the scenes, discomfort is building. Johnson’s response to the report has only added to doubts about his future. For all the talk from Johnson of change in how No 10 operates, the part that most worries MPs is that he may not realise that he needs to change, too.

None of which makes any difference if nearly all his own MPs are too venal and cowardly to give him the boot. We'll end up being stuck with the bugger until 2024 - and if he makes a sufficiently effective job of bribing the aged, even that might not be the end of it.

Gardenwalker said:

Boris claimed that crime was down 14% but according to the ONS last Thursday it is UP 14%.

Safest to believe the precise opposite of any claim Boris makes. Indeed, I have no memory of an occasion when Boris has told the truth.

"I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now."

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

Hopefully. Although probably not.

EEA/EFTA will be fine for now. Probably where we always should have been.

Fair Do's

A bit oxymoronic but heh that happens to the best of us.

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

Barnesian said:

Liz Truss tests positive for Covid
Not going to Ukraine with Boris.
Was with him today in the Commons.

And sitting in the Commons today without a mask (next to Priti Patel). The only Tory frontbencher with a mask that I saw was Sunak.

I missed all the news today completely.
I just had a read through the report and it was almost meaningless. It seems to amount to a "telling off" which would, under any other PM, be unthinkable. But Boris is immune to such criticism.
We will wait and see what happens with the criminal stuff but the obvious way out for him and everyone around him is to just jovially accept a fixed penalty notice and laugh it off, with a few unimportant staffers being hung out to dry.
My feeling at the moment is whatever political damage this has caused has already been done and priced in. The Gray report and future police investigations will not have much additional impact.

JBriskin3 said:

Farooq said:

Nadine Dorries is clearly an idiot, but she didn't seem drunk to me. Not at all. Playing a bad hand badly, and seemingly surly and defensive. But not drunk.

I didn't have the sound on - but it was quite a drunken sway.

But back to my point-

What was Ms Davidson's excuse?

She is watching Boris destroy her precious union.

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Ah, thank you.

Not, actually, her first time, come to think of it - but the last time is not a happy comparison for Mr J. Or the Scottish Tories and unionists.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/what-brought-ruth-davidson-to-tears-and-why-she-wants-broadcasters-to-put-a-cap-on-gambling-for-euros-3262323

Scott_xP said:

The report ultimately will have changed few minds. The key facts were already known. Conservative MPs can choose to stick with the prime minister, but he showed on Monday that they would be fools to think he is in any way chastened by events.

https://www.ft.com/content/9ca17c71-d4b5-46c9-81a6-0820d2c3c73b

Boris did what I expected of him and ignored the report.

So I was not surprised. Now I am just waiting to see if the MPs have the nerve to do what is needed, but having watched Nadine Dorris's car-crash interview, my expectations are very low.

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I see Newcastle are putting together a great squad....for the Championship.

Interesting comment on R5 earlier about the first transfers Man City bought after the money arrived. Take a look. Not the players you might expect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Manchester_City_F.C._season#Transfers_in

Kompany, Robinho, Zabaleta, Jo, Wright-Phillips, Bridge, Bellamy, Given...

That's a mix of outstanding world class potential talent and well established UK based international pros. Even a flop like Jo had been killing it at CSKA Moscow and was a Brazilian international.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Scott_xP said:

Am told Boris Johnson compared himself to Othello while addressing Conservative MPs tonight. He said he always sees the best in people, unlike Dominic Cummings (who he cast as Iago)
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1488249949284409354

OMG what an absolute twat.

Nope he's a lying twat - remember that he only sees what he can get out of people and if someone needs to be sacrificed to keep Boris in place then they will be sacrificed.

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

JBriskin3 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

You should brush up on some 90s history.

ThomasNashe said:

Scott_xP said:

Am told Boris Johnson compared himself to Othello while addressing Conservative MPs tonight. He said he always sees the best in people, unlike Dominic Cummings (who he cast as Iago)
https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1488249949284409354

Then he should follow Othello’s example, and do what the moor did when he found out that he’d been deceived by Iago.

And get Laurence Fishburne to play him in a big budget movie?

Fairliered said:

JBriskin3 said:

Farooq said:

Nadine Dorries is clearly an idiot, but she didn't seem drunk to me. Not at all. Playing a bad hand badly, and seemingly surly and defensive. But not drunk.

I didn't have the sound on - but it was quite a drunken sway.

But back to my point-

What was Ms Davidson's excuse?

She is watching Boris destroy her precious union.

I mean, as a Unionist living in Scotland, he definitely is destroying the Union.

Bizarre reference, Othello.

I’d say more Falstaff meets Richard III, personally.

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft. And, no, I am not including @Tissue_Price who has a genuine thing to be upset about

I don't partiularly want to be unkind to PB Star Bell but I do wonder how the PM giving a nudge PB reference as the final sentence to his response to Sir Keir might have played on his mind.

Carnyx said:

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft.

I think it's more that @Fairliered is right - she's been watching Mr Johnson destroy the Union, which she has made it her life's work to save. Not quite the same thing TBF. She's never been one to worship Mr J as a hero in stainless steel armour.

Hardly, the SNP still got lower in 2019 under Boris than they did in 2015 under Cameron and Davidson.

It is also Boris having to refuse indyref2 because SCon and SLAB failed to prevent an SNP and Green Holyrood majority last May

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft. And, no, I am not including @Tissue_Price who has a genuine thing to be upset about

Tbf I think it was triggered by her own similar recollections, earlier in the interview

MrEd said:

Roger said:

Labour quick off the mark. I'm not a member but a simple email saying the country needs to change. Who can disagree so I sent them £25

Is that all? That's what you pay your cleaner for two weeks' work.

I wouldn’t know

Gallowgate said:

Anabobazina said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I see Newcastle are putting together a great squad....for the Championship.

Nope. I think they’ll stay up.

Everton will be a huge game next Tuesday. I’ll be there in the Gallowgate.

Good luck sir

Gardenwalker said:

ping said:

Gardenwalker said:

Boris claimed that crime was down 14% but according to the ONS last Thursday it is UP 14%.

Safest to believe the precise opposite of any claim Boris makes. Indeed, I have no memory of an occasion when Boris has told the truth.

“Overall, Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) estimates provide the best indicator of long-term trends in crime. Estimates from the TCSEW for the year ending September 2021 compared with the pre-coronavirus year ending September 20192 show:

a 14% increase in total crime, driven by a 47% increase in fraud and computer misuse.

Crime excluding fraud and computer misuse decreased by 14%, largely driven by an 18% decrease in theft offences.”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2021

Theft and fraud have effectively moved online. It’s still crime though.

No one reports theft anymore because you can only contact the police online and it's known that they do nothing. The only people who make a report are people who want a crime number for insurance purposes

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

Not so many Tory voters now, though, you have to admit, than some months back.

IanB2 said:

pigeon said:

IanB2 said:

Katy Balls: Gray’s update, in which she was more than keen to stress this was not her report and just a summary, and Johnson’s response to it, has put him back in the danger zone.

When he needed to be statesmanlike and contrite, he was angry and combative – even refusing to commit to publishing the full report once the police investigation was concluded (a position Downing Street has already had to U-turn on).

His attack on Keir Starmer for the failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile (a claim that has been disproven) dismayed even his own MPs – while his questioning of drug use by the Labour frontbench was viewed as simply bizarre. “It was terrible,” says one member of the payroll… behind the scenes, discomfort is building. Johnson’s response to the report has only added to doubts about his future. For all the talk from Johnson of change in how No 10 operates, the part that most worries MPs is that he may not realise that he needs to change, too.

None of which makes any difference if nearly all his own MPs are too venal and cowardly to give him the boot. We'll end up being stuck with the bugger until 2024 - and if he makes a sufficiently effective job of bribing the aged, even that might not be the end of it.

On a point of detail, surely Labour will be demanding a parliamentary apology for the saville comment?

Even if they try they won't get it.

Honestly, first the Labour Party foisting Jeremy Corbyn and his mental cult upon the nation, and then the Tories with Boris Johnson the narcissistic, sociopathic compulsive liar - one has to wonder what we did to deserve this shower of shite. Up in Scotland, where they actually get another alternative that's capable of winning, you have to wonder what percentage of the SNP vote is really that sold on independence, and what fraction of it keep backing them over and over again because both the major alternatives are regarded as both irretrievably corrupt and certifiably insane.

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

I did not say "UKIP" I said "Leavers". It is up there ↑↑↑ you can see it if you look ....

Yes I know that.

Referendum party got - (I'm guessing) 3 pc in 1997?

2022 minus 1997 (I used a casio this time) is 25.

But if you're just drunk and being hyperbolic I won't hold a grudge.

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft.

I think it's more that @Fairliered is right - she's been watching Mr Johnson destroy the Union, which she has made it her life's work to save. Not quite the same thing TBF. She's never been one to worship Mr J as a hero in stainless steel armour.

Hardly, the SNP still got lower in 2019 under Boris than they did in 2015 under Cameron and Davidson.

It is also Boris having to refuse indyref2 because SCon and SLAB failed to prevent an SNP and Green Holyrood majority last May

Give it a rest and stop parroting the party line. Johnson is more toxic than any leader I can remember, bar Corbyn.

MrEd said:

Roger said:

Labour quick off the mark. I'm not a member but a simple email saying the country needs to change. Who can disagree so I sent them £25

Is that all? That's what you pay your cleaner for two weeks' work.

A while since you've had a cleaner. That's what they asked for

FrancisUrquhart said:

Taz said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MrEd said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I see Newcastle are putting together a great squad....for the Championship.

Interesting comment on R5 earlier about the first transfers Man City bought after the money arrived. Take a look. Not the players you might expect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Manchester_City_F.C._season#Transfers_in

Kompany, Robinho, Zabaleta, Jo, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Bridge, Bellamy, Given...

That's a mix of outstanding world class potential talent and well established UK based international pros.

Kompany has to be the bargain of all time - an outstanding player, a brilliant leader and a thoroughly superb individual. What a buy.

Zabaleta was also a superb buy as well.

Jo, on the other hand....

The point with Jo was at the time he was a full time Brazilian international and was a star in Russia.

To be fair, Guimarães is supposed to be very good, I am not sure anybody is renewing their season ticket because they signed Matt Targett or Chis Wood.

JoeLinton was supposed to be very good too when they paid a similar amount for him. Oops.

Brazilian Geoff Horsfield.

Feed the horse and he will score, as my Fulham supporting mate used to,say.

FrancisUrquhart said:

MrEd said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I see Newcastle are putting together a great squad....for the Championship.

Interesting comment on R5 earlier about the first transfers Man City bought after the money arrived. Take a look. Not the players you might expect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Manchester_City_F.C._season#Transfers_in

Kompany, Robinho, Zabaleta, Jo, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Bridge, Bellamy, Given...

That's a mix of outstanding world class potential talent and well established UK based international pros.

Kompany has to be the bargain of all time - an outstanding player, a brilliant leader and a thoroughly superb individual. What a buy.

Zabaleta was also a superb buy as well.

Jo, on the other hand....

The point with Jo was at the time he was a full time Brazilian international and was a star in Russia.

To be fair, Guimarães is supposed to be very good, I am not sure anybody is renewing their season ticket because they signed Matt Targett or Chis Wood.

Decent player Chris Wood, I always liked him at Leicester. This is my favourite of his goals:

https://youtu.be/AlWZdBsUYJA

Mexicanpete said:

JBriskin3 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

Weren't the Labour left the UKIPers of their day- 40 plus years ago?

Well I was in nappies forty years ago...

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

Yes, keeping a steady proportion of a shrinking pie is [checks notes] good news?

It is to HYUFD.
He seems to imply upthread that SCONs are.l not proper CONs.

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

The average Tory voter is now aged about 72 and would happily elect Lucifer if he pledged to tax the absolute shit out of the young to cover the cost of their having their arses wiped when they go gaga. One is moved to quote the famous Orwellian analogy,

“England... resembles a family, a rather stuffy Victorian family, with not many black sheep in it but with all its cupboards bursting with skeletons. It has rich relations who have to be kow-towed to and poor relations who are horribly sat upon, and there is a deep conspiracy of silence about the source of the family income. It is a family in which the young are generally thwarted and most of the power is in the hands of irresponsible uncles and bedridden aunts... A family with the wrong members in control - that, perhaps is as near as one can come to describing England in a phrase.”

Gardenwalker said:

Farooq said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

Yes, keeping a steady proportion of a shrinking pie is [checks notes] good news?

It is to HYUFD.
He seems to imply upthread that SCONs are.l not proper CONs.

No, however it is a fact that there are more SCon MPs and MSPs under Boris than there ever were under Cameron, not that they have shown him much gratitude

Mexicanpete said:

JBriskin3 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

Weren't the Labour left the UKIPers of their day- 40 plus years ago?

No, they saw the common market as a capitalist plot to erode workers rights.

JBriskin3 said:

Mexicanpete said:

JBriskin3 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Gallowgate said:

JBriskin3 said:

Roger said:

JBriskin3 said:

WhisperingOracle said:

JBriskin3 said:

BannedinnParis said:

May realised she needed a bigger majority to get Brexit through in some form. Stacked the election, for a number of reasons, winning only a pyrrhic victory.

Boris made the exact same calculation, helped by 2 more years of, how do we put this politely, wrangling.

Country really should not be surprised we're in the position we are in.

Good Analysis

WhisperingOracle said:

Red lines, hard brexit, increasingly clear that she was on a course to a minimal deal, I was meaning, really. She certainly wasn't very good at implementing all that she had set the scene for by continually gratifying the ERG, though.

Bad Analysis

The crucial missing word is in the first sentence - May realised she needed a bigger majority to get *Hard* Brexit through in some form. Soft Brexit wouldn't have allowed her to stay on as Tory leader, so, despite being a much more diligent and sometimes honourable prime minister than Boris Johnson, it was much her now forgotten opportunism that led to Boris as anything else.

Hard and Soft Brexit is Remoaner language.

Both May and Boris were merely trying to get out of the EU which proved to be far more difficult than leaving a "democratic" institution should be.

...and Remoaner is the language of a moron.

Well there was > 650 / 2 of them at one point.

Damn right there was lad

Yes well I was referring to Remoaners.

Sorry for not making that clear.

Would rather be a remoaner than a whopper

Blimey - You're still moronic enough to class yourself as a Remoaner?

Do you think Sir Keir will get you back in to the European Union???

We had to put up with Leavers moaning for 40 years... Your point?

No you haven't. UKIP aren't 40 years old. And Farage (the policy entrepenour) has only been prominent for 10 years or so.

Weren't the Labour left the UKIPers of their day- 40 plus years ago?

Well I was in nappies forty years ago...

It's quite remarkable how the likes of Eric Heffer have morphed into Andrew Bridgen.

The Conservatives were very Euro friendly back in the day. Ah well.

pigeon said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Most Tory backbenchers will never achieve anything in their political careers, and yet here is an opportunity to really make an impact.

By VONCing Boris, you get to uphold standards in public life AND be able to look at your children in the eye.

If not, not.

As a decision, indeed it’s easier than the one facing Republicans who at least have the excuse that their voters are also batshit insane. Polling shows that maybe even a majority of Tory voters think Boris lied and needs to go.

No more Tory voters tonight still think Boris should stay than go

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

The average Tory voter is now aged about 72 and would happily elect Lucifer if he pledged to tax the absolute shit out of the young to cover the cost of their having their arses wiped when they go gaga. One is moved to quote the famous Orwellian analogy,

“England... resembles a family, a rather stuffy Victorian family, with not many black sheep in it but with all its cupboards bursting with skeletons. It has rich relations who have to be kow-towed to and poor relations who are horribly sat upon, and there is a deep conspiracy of silence about the source of the family income. It is a family in which the young are generally thwarted and most of the power is in the hands of irresponsible uncles and bedridden aunts... A family with the wrong members in control - that, perhaps is as near as one can come to describing England in a phrase.”

The young will inherit more than any generation before them once they reach middle age, thanks to the prudence of the old

IanB2 said:

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft. And, no, I am not including @Tissue_Price who has a genuine thing to be upset about

Tbf I think it was triggered by her own similar recollections, earlier in the interview

Davidson struck a chord. People feel that they have been taken for fools. Anyone who went through something like not being able to bury a child or be with a relative when they were dying understands this emotional reaction. It is a feeling of personal failure, that you were cowardly and pathetic for not wanting to 'break the rules'. I couldn't cry about it myself because I am too stoic and unemotional, but it is a truly shameful episode.

Carnyx said:

MrEd said:

IanB2 said:

MrEd said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin3 said:

Carnyx said:

Roger said:

Watching Ch4 News it's easy to imagine him going and quickly. It was something from the Kindergarten. Quite embarrassing for all Tories and all Johnson supporters. He's a lump and a man child. Watching Ruth Davidson crying was quite shocking

JBriskin3 said:

My twitter's hinting that Nadine was drunk for her media stint.

Does Ms/(Mrs?) Davidson have the same excuse?

Lady Davidson, actually, now she doesn't bother to get elected any more. What's she been doing?

I forgot about the Lady thing, ta

Lady Davidson was "greeting" on C4 news.

Oh, why? I missed it. What's she been slicing onions over?

Boris.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1488235127847243780?s=20&t=-jcQ1mKOZVYHOyRcmYljhA

Anyone who cries over the behaviour of a politician is daft. And, no, I am not including @Tissue_Price who has a genuine thing to be upset about

Tbf I think it was triggered by her own similar recollections, earlier in the interview

If that is the case, that explains it. But Johnson is a shit, anyone who deals with anyone of his type knows that. I'd go for drinks with him but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. If you genuinely put your life's work in the hands of such a person and now upset he's betrayed you, well...

But, yes, your point re grief at relatives dying still holds

On the other hand, my pointing out that she is now Lady D reminds me that she was quite happy to accept a peerage and sit in the Lords as one of his party. It's not as if she has become a cross-bencher.

Baroness D sits in the Lords, enjoys Lords fine dining and bars and attendance allowance, use of the library etc and a grand title thanks to Boris. Baroness D never has to ask a single voter to vote for her again thanks to Boris

IanB2 said:

pigeon said:

IanB2 said:

Katy Balls: Gray’s update, in which she was more than keen to stress this was not her report and just a summary, and Johnson’s response to it, has put him back in the danger zone.

When he needed to be statesmanlike and contrite, he was angry and combative – even refusing to commit to publishing the full report once the police investigation was concluded (a position Downing Street has already had to U-turn on).

His attack on Keir Starmer for the failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile (a claim that has been disproven) dismayed even his own MPs – while his questioning of drug use by the Labour frontbench was viewed as simply bizarre. “It was terrible,” says one member of the payroll… behind the scenes, discomfort is building. Johnson’s response to the report has only added to doubts about his future. For all the talk from Johnson of change in how No 10 operates, the part that most worries MPs is that he may not realise that he needs to change, too.

None of which makes any difference if nearly all his own MPs are too venal and cowardly to give him the boot. We'll end up being stuck with the bugger until 2024 - and if he makes a sufficiently effective job of bribing the aged, even that might not be the end of it.

On a point of detail, surely Labour will be demanding a parliamentary apology for the saville comment?

Boris next week, at the despatch box: "Saville? What is the Rt Hon gentleman going on about? I never mentioned Saville - I have no idea who Saville was"