The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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The ideal time to spend the 54th letter would be just before Boris went abroad - does he turn back in a hurry or try to fight from abroad.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesdayeek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
Stranger things have happened0 -
From your somewhat biased perspective. I imagine Putin thinks of Big Clown the same way most of us on here think of him. A joke leader that just keeps on giving.HYUFD said:
At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit BritainMango said:
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.0 -
Won't Big Dog be in Kyiv still?eek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?0 -
I'm relocating back to New Haven CT within the next couple of years. It's bloody cold round those parts but its light. I don't mind cold if I can have some daylight past 4pm in the depths of winter.Gardenwalker said:
Yep. It’s v cold here in New York.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
But my kids loved sledding through Central Park yesterday and the sky is bright blue. It’s like being in the Alps.0 -
Hopefully Boris's dealings with the party go the way of Gordian III bargaining with the Roman army
“When the army had elected Philip, who was Prætorian præfect to the third Gordian, the latter demanded that he might remain sole emperor; he was unable to obtain it. He requested that the power might be equally divided between them; the army would not listen to his speech. He consented to be degraded to the rank of Cæsar; the favor was refused him. He desired, at least, he might be appointed Prætorian præfect; his prayer was rejected. Finally, he pleaded for his life. The army, in these several judgments, exercised the supreme magistracy.
According to the historian, whose doubtful narrative the President De Montesquieu has adopted, Philip, who, during the whole transaction, had preserved a sullen silence, was inclined to spare the innocent life of his benefactor; till, recollecting that his innocence might excite a dangerous compassion in the Roman world, he commanded, without regard to his suppliant cries, that he should be seized, stripped, and led away to instant death. After a moment’s pause, the inhuman sentence was executed. "0 -
“Hello I wanted to speak to President Putin to tell him how awful he is being. But I have to rearrange the call due to unforeseen circumstances. Can you push it to later? You can’t? Oh. Bye then.”HYUFD said:
At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.Mango said:
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agrees a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China1 -
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter0 -
Boris being at No 10 is still a winner for Labour so I don't see them exerting that much effort to help him be removed.Nigel_Foremain said:
As I've said before I think it is now a win-win for Labour. If he goes, they defeated the PM. If he stays they know they have Big Clown there doing his damage to the Tory brand. I think on balance they'd like him to resign though.MaxPB said:
The one way to get the Tories to hold off is to get Labour to start playing games, Boris was saved last time by an ill timed defection.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Especially when it's got nothing to do with Labour and everything to do with what Tory MPs want / think is best for them.0 -
ITV Wales just reported from Rhyl and it was not as bad for Boris as I expected (Vale of Clwyd)0
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Tanks there are not ours.JBriskin3 said:
In a Tank - Thatcher Style?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesdayeek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
Stranger things have happened
Desperate times...
Perhaps inspecting some troops0 -
Unwise. One could damage him a lot by quoting hudfy as if he were a typical poster here.Fairliered said:
Do you think @Tissue_Price would write a thread if you asked him?MikeSmithson said:Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.
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Thanks! I se quite a few have been made into films, most recently Hotel Paradiso, but for some reason I have missed those.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm genuinely astonished that anyone here didn't know what a Feydeau farce is. My assumptions of what constitutes our common body of culture is clearly wrong.Carnyx said:
Me neither, so I looked it up for myself - very popular in the last two decades of the Long Nineteenth Century. Wiki says "The plays of Feydeau are marked by closely observed characters, with whom his audiences could identify, plunged into fast-moving comic plots of mistaken identity, attempted adultery, split-second timing and a precariously happy ending."
If done well, they are amongst the funniest plays you will ever see. However, I do remember an absolutely excruciating National Theatre performance of 'Occupe toi d'Amélie' (in English) many years ago, which we took my sister-in-law and her husband to. Having promised them a really entertaining evening - it's one of the funniest of his plays - it was so dire that by common consent we left at the interval.0 -
Afternoon, Malc.malcolmg said:
Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
I miss Scotland terribly as I haven’t been able to get up there for going on years now. I’m looking forward to the Scottish Tartan Parade here in NYC in April which will be hosted by Karen Gillan.
@TSE, I extend you a standing invitation.0 -
Meaning vox pops from the Vale of Clwyd?Big_G_NorthWales said:ITV Wales just reported from Rhyl and it was not as bad for Boris as I expected (Vale of Clwyd)
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That would be amusing. An elected Tory councillor telling a Tory Mp that he’s not a real Tory because he doesn’t support Boris Mandela.IshmaelZ said:
Unwise. One could damage him a lot by quoting hudfy as if he were a typical poster here.Fairliered said:
Do you think @Tissue_Price would write a thread if you asked him?MikeSmithson said:Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.
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I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving. Second the Starmer supported Corbyn who supported Putin put down, and I fell off my chair at the drug taking allegation.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Brandon Lewis on R4 PM thought the PM had equipped himself well. Sadly I have to agree. The punters will love the Big Dog
Boris is so bone idle she will have probably had to bury them for him (allegedly)StuartDickson said:
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies are buried.IshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.0 -
He's calling their bluff - at this point while more would emerge in a full report it is unlikely to change all that many minds. So if they want him gone, he does not want them justifying it to themselves on the basis of some drip drip revelation, he wants them to nail their colours to the mast.rottenborough said:
Robert Peston
@Peston
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2m
The PM is taking a huge personal risk in rejecting Tory MP demands to publish Sue Gray’s more definitive “full” report - because he is removing from them any incentive to delay their decisions to send in letters of no confidence in his leadership
I'm reminded of those MPs who were waiting for DUP approval before voting for or against a Brexit deal, in essence giving up their responsibility to make a decision by hinging their decision on another group.1 -
This government proclaimed it is fine, as long as the law breaking was done in a limited and specific way.BartholomewRoberts said:
Yes I 100% agree.Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?kinabalu said:
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.BartholomewRoberts said:
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.kinabalu said:
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.kinabalu said:
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.BartholomewRoberts said:
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.kinabalu said:
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.BartholomewRoberts said:
Far too early to say that.El_Capitano said:Starmer must be overjoyed.
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.
If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.
It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.0 -
The Leave voting white working class still like Boris far more than graduate Remainers, even if less than they did in 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:ITV Wales just reported from Rhyl and it was not as bad for Boris as I expected (Vale of Clwyd)
Rhyl is in Vale of Clwyd and full of white working class Leavers, so no surprise0 -
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1488215914361364482
Some Tory MPs are not feeling favourable towards the PM this eve.
One senior Tory who is usually loyal described his Commons turn as "a total and utter train wreck" adding "the mood is utterly dire"
Another MP "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Another senior party aide said No10 may have misjudged the tone: "Today was not a day to come out swinging"
***
The answer to that is, if you turn out to be, say, Fred West, things have moved on beyond the question of what's the best tone in which to discuss your activities
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Shame - who doesn't like Tanks?Foxy said:
Tanks there are not ours.JBriskin3 said:
In a Tank - Thatcher Style?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesdayeek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
Stranger things have happened
Desperate times...
Perhaps inspecting some troops
Or the indeed the idea of invading Russia!?0 -
3
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Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius0 -
Because the qualifying adverb would be untrue ?Carnyx said:
Quite so, which makes it odd that the Speaker didn't accept Mr Blackford's offer to say 'inadevertently misled'. Why not?FF43 said:
The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.eek said:
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.FF43 said:
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.DearPB said:Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
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Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.3 -
Hello Malky - lovely sunny morning over in the east with some radiation frost and the white just on the hills.malcolmg said:
Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
Prestwick Airport was specifically located in Ayrshire of course because it has little fog/mist/haar - important in the old days without blind landing aids and with urban smog inland. But I don't know how wide that meteorological phenomenon extends.0 -
More BS about BJ.HYUFD said:
At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.Mango said:
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agreed a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China0 -
Why do you think those interviewed were white working classHYUFD said:
The Leave voting white working class still like Boris far more than graduate Remainers, even if less than they did in 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:ITV Wales just reported from Rhyl and it was not as bad for Boris as I expected (Vale of Clwyd)
Rhyl is in Vale of Clwyd and full of white working class Leavers, so no surprise
Your comment is distasteful0 -
Karen Gillan you say.Gardenwalker said:
Afternoon, Malc.malcolmg said:
Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
I miss Scotland terribly as I haven’t been able to get up there for going on years now. I’m looking forward to the Scottish Tartan Parade here in NYC in April which will be hosted by Karen Gillan.
@TSE, I extend you a standing invitation.
I shall be there.
My own weakness in life is redheads.1 -
He was the most outspoken of the Paterson 13...TOPPING said:Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.
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https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1488200463199653888?s=21dr_spyn said:Is a dam cracking?
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488219064422047753
A PPS stands down.
Meanwhile lick spittle Gove is quick out the traps to stand behind the PM.-1 -
Or, indeed, Mr West complaining that the polis didn't do a good job of prosecuting Mr Saville.IshmaelZ said:https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1488215914361364482
Some Tory MPs are not feeling favourable towards the PM this eve.
One senior Tory who is usually loyal described his Commons turn as "a total and utter train wreck" adding "the mood is utterly dire"
Another MP "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Another senior party aide said No10 may have misjudged the tone: "Today was not a day to come out swinging"
***
The answer to that is, if you turn out to be, say, Fred West, things have moved on beyond the question of what's the best tone in which to discuss your activities0 -
He rebelled on the North Shropshire thing so it's unlikely it's just dawning on him.TOPPING said:Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.2 -
Sorry, run that one past me more slowly please?Nigelb said:
Because the qualifying adverb would be untrue ?Carnyx said:
Quite so, which makes it odd that the Speaker didn't accept Mr Blackford's offer to say 'inadevertently misled'. Why not?FF43 said:
The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.eek said:
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.FF43 said:
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.DearPB said:Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.0 -
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
0 -
I'd say children know that pointing out others are doing wrong is not the right thing to do, except actually we do learn early on that it is pretty effective.Big_G_NorthWales said:Wow - Boris responded to an accusation of drug taking in no 10 said, no you should look at the Labour front bench
0 -
Offer it to the Prime Minister, eh? Does he have to accept it?Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”4 -
Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477530 -
Demographics.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why do you think those interviewed were white working classHYUFD said:
The Leave voting white working class still like Boris far more than graduate Remainers, even if less than they did in 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:ITV Wales just reported from Rhyl and it was not as bad for Boris as I expected (Vale of Clwyd)
Rhyl is in Vale of Clwyd and full of white working class Leavers, so no surprise
Your comment is distasteful
Plus the latest Yougov had the Tories on 34% with working class C2DEs but only 31% with middle class ABC1s.
The Tories are also still on 58% with Leavers but just 13% with Remainers
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/01/28/voting-intention-con-32-lab-38-26-27-jan0 -
That's as maybe but a short time on PB would have prepared him well.IshmaelZ said:
He was the most outspoken of the Paterson 13...TOPPING said:Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.0 -
AUKUS is a procurement and technology pact, not an alliance. There is no mutual defence obligation outside of existing treaties.HYUFD said:
At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.Mango said:
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agreed a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China1 -
I don’t really get what @Mexicanpete is talking about. Is it sarcasm? I can’t tell.
Boris’s Savile jibe may be the thing that ends him.
It was breathtakingly dishonest. As I posted upthread, I was shaking in anger. And reports suggest a decent number (enough?) of Tory MPs were similarly disgusted.4 -
MP for Guildford at risk of going LDTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477530 -
One curiosity in all the MPs questions, why has no one ever asked him to recuse himself from the decisions around publication? Even if it needs to be a government politician it could be someone like Sunak, Gove, Raab or Braverman.NickPalmer said:
Offer it to the Prime Minister, eh? Does he have to accept it?Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
It is crazy that an investigation depends on the person being investigated to be willing to release the details.0 -
Didn't she resign (and then unresign) over Paterson?dr_spyn said:Is a dam cracking?
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488219064422047753
A PPS stands down.1 -
Reference to Jimmy Savile by Boris Johnson was a disgrace to Parliament & office of Prime Minister
ITS NOT TRUE
I was there
Keir Starmer had nothing to do with the decisions taken
On the contrary, He supported me in bringing 100s of child sex abusers to justice
https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/14881815813532590250 -
Re: BJ tripping to Ukraine, yours truly is old enough to remember how Nixon went on a foreign trip to Egypt not long before he gave the Big Wave from the Rose Garden.0
-
Winnipeg is closer to London in terms of distance from the equator than New York isrcs1000 said:
Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius0 -
Yes. It seems the burghers of the stockbroker belt have a bit more moral fibre than you.HYUFD said:
MP for Guildford at risk of going LDTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477531 -
I don't ever remember him being a Johnson apologist? Correct me if I am wrong?TOPPING said:Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.
1 -
That Tweet doesn’t actually help SKS a great deal.IshmaelZ said:Reference to Jimmy Savile by Boris Johnson was a disgrace to Parliament & office of Prime Minister
ITS NOT TRUE
I was there
Keir Starmer had nothing to do with the decisions taken
On the contrary, He supported me in bringing 100s of child sex abusers to justice
https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1488181581353259025
Doesn’t alter the fact that Johnson is a disgrace.0 -
Again. She is like a yo-yo.TheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477530 -
Another conservative mps dished by the most ridiculous conservative I have ever come acrossHYUFD said:
MP for Guildford at risk of going LDTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488219064422047753
You should be ashamed standing up for Boris, and passing your ill judged attacks on decent conservatives who recognise right from wrong1 -
Via AgentP22 on twitter (a good follow)
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/ian-blackford-hypocrisy-laid-bare-260992480 -
David Gauke
@DavidGauke
Conservative MPs now know that when the final Sue Gray report is published it will be damning. They don't need to wait any longer to act.1 -
It' s a good feeling to have a decent leader of the opposition at last and improving with every outing. He looked dominating today in a way we haven't seen since Blair.3
-
It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.Heathener said:
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady0 -
London is rather closer to this thing called the 'sea'. Which has a 'Gulf Stream' going up it and keeping the 'British [sic] Isles' warm.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg is closer to London in terms of distance from the equator than New York isrcs1000 said:
Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
Winnipeg, or indeed anywhere in the continental interior of North America, is ****ing cold in winter because the sea left the Great Plains not long after the dinosaurs did.3 -
While in these times it can be easy to overlook that Boris is not without political skills which have helped him sustain and thrive across a long political career, one thing I don't think he has ever been any good at is the non-apology apology.CarlottaVance said:Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
He has had some success with distraction and bluster in the past, but it is not working so well right now, and his attempts at non-apologies cannot carry him through convincingly. Hence upping the bluster quotient with pretty random counters.0 -
Yes after I'd mentioned Jim Callaghan in Guadeloupe someone mentioned Thatcher in Paris.SeaShantyIrish2 said:Re: BJ tripping to Ukraine, yours truly is old enough to remember how Nixon went on a foreign trip to Egypt not long before he gave the Big Wave from the Rose Garden.
Both trips effectively saw the end of their premierships.0 -
He is no BlairRoger said:It' s a good feeling to have a decent leader of the opposition at last and improving with every outing. He looked dominating today in a way we haven't seen since Blair.
0 -
Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter0 -
It’s weird, because I thought the opposite.Mexicanpete said:
It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.Heathener said:
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
I’m very Keir-sceptic, and I don’t think I’ve seen a decent performance from him at all before. Today he truly channeled the country’s anger.
Boris came out swinging, but only in the sense that a trapped rat does. He demeaned his office and insulted the House (and the public) today.6 -
You OK?Mexicanpete said:
It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.Heathener said:
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
0 -
0
-
Question is to what extent he still credits the dodgy boss with having got him the job in the first place.TOPPING said:Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.
Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.
More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.
0 -
Touché lol.noneoftheabove said:
This government proclaimed it is fine, as long as the law breaking was done in a limited and specific way.BartholomewRoberts said:
Yes I 100% agree.Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?kinabalu said:
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.BartholomewRoberts said:
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.kinabalu said:
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.kinabalu said:
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.BartholomewRoberts said:
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.kinabalu said:
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.BartholomewRoberts said:
Far too early to say that.El_Capitano said:Starmer must be overjoyed.
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.
If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.
It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.1 -
Hopefully climate change will not damage the Gulf Stream otherwise we will get prairies Canadian wintersCarnyx said:
London is rather closer to this thing called the 'sea'. Which has a 'Gulf Stream' going up it and keeping the 'British [sic] Isles' warm.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg is closer to London in terms of distance from the equator than New York isrcs1000 said:
Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
Winnipeg, or indeed anywhere in the continental interior of North America, is ****ing cold in winter because the sea left the Great Plains not long after the dinosaurs did.0 -
Which is at risk of going LD - the MP or the constituency?HYUFD said:
MP for Guildford at risk of going LDTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477530 -
I remember a summer holiday staying in perhaps the UK's most northerly B&B on UNst on Shetland. The sheep were waking us up at some ridiculous time like 3 am when they woke. And bright sun for our after dinner walks high in the sky. But then I thought, what's this going to be like in winter ...?IanB2 said:
Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter2 -
"He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.
And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.
EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".
Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.1 -
Agreed, he is better at attacking than defending, the closest he was to having to resign was when he did the apology interview. Since then he has come out fighting and claiming to anyone open to hearing it that this is a boring distraction that should be treated with contempt because Brexit & vaccines. Lots of low interest voters, who we rarely hear from on here, will be fine with that.kle4 said:
While in these times it can be easy to overlook that Boris is not without political skills which have helped him sustain and thrive across a long political career, one thing I don't think he has ever been any good at is the non-apology apology.CarlottaVance said:Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
He has had some success with distraction and bluster in the past, but it is not working so well right now, and his attempts at non-apologies cannot carry him through convincingly. Hence upping the bluster quotient with pretty random counters.1 -
A fun account of the Callaghan trip here:
https://annaraccoon.com/2012/06/09/james-callaghan-pm-my-part-in-his-downfall/
So he in fact flew in from Barbados. It was the height of the winter of discontent, with rubbish piled up everywhere and bodies lying unburied.
"As Callaghan emerged from his plane onto the tarmac on a dismal winter morn, a disenchanted hack shouted out to him, ‘What d’you think of the chaos, Jim’. Callaghan actually replied ‘I don’t think that other people in the world would share the view that there is mounting chaos’. That exchange, slightly misheard or misinterpreted, by the Sun, became their famous headline ‘Crisis, what crisis’.
It proved to be a phrase that hung round his neck for the rest of his political life – encapsulating the notion that Labour leaders had no idea what they were doing to the country, and ultimately led to his downfall."2 -
Quite so.HYUFD said:
Hopefully climate change will not damage the Gulf Stream otherwise we will get prairies Canadian wintersCarnyx said:
London is rather closer to this thing called the 'sea'. Which has a 'Gulf Stream' going up it and keeping the 'British [sic] Isles' warm.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg is closer to London in terms of distance from the equator than New York isrcs1000 said:
Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
Winnipeg, or indeed anywhere in the continental interior of North America, is ****ing cold in winter because the sea left the Great Plains not long after the dinosaurs did.1 -
I suspect her voters will go LD prior.HYUFD said:
MP for Guildford at risk of going LDTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/14882190644220477532 -
The dinosaurs having been abducted by aliens, no doubt?Carnyx said:
London is rather closer to this thing called the 'sea'. Which has a 'Gulf Stream' going up it and keeping the 'British [sic] Isles' warm.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg is closer to London in terms of distance from the equator than New York isrcs1000 said:
Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
Winnipeg, or indeed anywhere in the continental interior of North America, is ****ing cold in winter because the sea left the Great Plains not long after the dinosaurs did.0 -
This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8
Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson. He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in her Cabinet.3 -
Aaron Bell tweets 'Proud to call Angela [Richardson] my friend.
https://twitter.com/AaronBell4NUL/status/14882218368486359114 -
I know - I loved it.Nigel_Foremain said:
Just realised- what a mix of metaphors!Nigel_Foremain said:
If it gets to VONC then I think the dam will burst and he will be toast. There is no love for him and today proved it. Whether the requisite number of letters is reached is the critical thing. I still think it is after May.Andy_JS said:
I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.TOPPING said:Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
0 -
So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?SeaShantyIrish2 said:"He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.
And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.
EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".
Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.0 -
A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.Heathener said:This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8
Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.1 -
Too right. I remember listening to it as a young lass, live on the radio and Callaghan was amazing in trying to win back the wavering support. Thanks so much for the link suggestion. I will have another listen!IanB2 said:
A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.Heathener said:This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8
Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.0 -
Are you being serious about Starmer? Jimmy Saville was his lowest moment in an afternoon of low momentsMexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving. Second the Starmer supported Corbyn who supported Putin put down, and I fell off my chair at the drug taking allegation.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Brandon Lewis on R4 PM thought the PM had equipped himself well. Sadly I have to agree. The punters will love the Big Dog
Boris is so bone idle she will have probably had to bury them for him (allegedly)StuartDickson said:
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies are buried.IshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.0 -
Easy to see (but not after 3pm in December) what drove Scots to such Banana Belts as Nova Scotia and Patagonia.Carnyx said:
I remember a summer holiday staying in perhaps the UK's most northerly B&B on UNst on Shetland. The sheep were waking us up at some ridiculous time like 3 am when they woke. And bright sun for our after dinner walks high in the sky. But then I thought, what's this going to be like in winter ...?IanB2 said:
Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter0 -
YesHYUFD said:
So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?SeaShantyIrish2 said:"He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.
And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.
EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".
Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.
Are they all going to be as easy as that?
4 -
Michael Foot's winding up speech was also pretty good.IanB2 said:
A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.Heathener said:This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8
Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.1 -
I watched too much of PMQs.
But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.
Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”
It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.
Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.3 -
Ta.Farooq said:
FTFYStuartDickson said:
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies bottles are buried.IshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
0 -
Edmonton, population over 1 million, is north of us and therefore darker than us in winter too as well as colderIanB2 said:
Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter0 -
Gosh did you really think Starmer was poor? I very much didn't. That for me was pitch perfect.Mexicanpete said:
It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.Heathener said:
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady4 -
Ta.Farooq said:
FTFYStuartDickson said:
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies bottles are buried.IshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
0 -
Clearly you’ve never been to Italy or, if you have, never looked under the carpet (not that they have any there)?HYUFD said:
So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?SeaShantyIrish2 said:"He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"
Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.
And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.
EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".
Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.
0 -
In the end, everywhere in the Northern hemisphere gets the same amount of daylight over the year.Carnyx said:
I remember a summer holiday staying in perhaps the UK's most northerly B&B on UNst on Shetland. The sheep were waking us up at some ridiculous time like 3 am when they woke. And bright sun for our after dinner walks high in the sky. But then I thought, what's this going to be like in winter ...?IanB2 said:
Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.HYUFD said:
Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.dixiedean said:
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
It is the greyness of British winters that is so wearing. Bright sunny days like today are cold but pleasant, at least when not rather brain-fogged by covid.1 -
Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.Gardenwalker said:I watched too much of PMQs.
But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.
Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”
It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.
Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.0 -
Are you a fan of Lloyd Russell-Moyle then?TheScreamingEagles said:
Karen Gillan you say.Gardenwalker said:
Afternoon, Malc.malcolmg said:
Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
I miss Scotland terribly as I haven’t been able to get up there for going on years now. I’m looking forward to the Scottish Tartan Parade here in NYC in April which will be hosted by Karen Gillan.
@TSE, I extend you a standing invitation.
I shall be there.
My own weakness in life is redheads.0 -
I think it was the lowest point for a serving PM that I have any awareness of.Roger said:
Are you being serious about Starmer? Jimmy Saville was his lowest moment in an afternoon of low momentsMexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving. Second the Starmer supported Corbyn who supported Putin put down, and I fell off my chair at the drug taking allegation.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Brandon Lewis on R4 PM thought the PM had equipped himself well. Sadly I have to agree. The punters will love the Big Dog
Boris is so bone idle she will have probably had to bury them for him (allegedly)StuartDickson said:
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies are buried.IshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
What made it doubly offensive was that it was coupled with suggestions that the Gray report said the opposite of what it actually said, and the bare-faced appeal to “wait for the Met”.1 -
He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.IshmaelZ said:
You OK?Mexicanpete said:
It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.Heathener said:
You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.Mexicanpete said:
I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
Big Dog
BoStuartDickson said:
YeIshmaelZ said:
She goes to the pressCarnyx said:
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.NorthofStoke said:
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..BannedinnParis said:
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.Cyclefree said:I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.
And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.
Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.0
