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Punters backing Sunak are ignoring that there isn’t a vacancy – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,690
edited February 2022 in General
imagePunters backing Sunak are ignoring that there isn’t a vacancy – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have just reported that 63% of the next PM bets they’ve laid this week have been on the Chancellor, Rishi Sunak. He’s now a very tight favourite in the betting.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    First like Starmer
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,039
    edited January 2022
    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Bit of volatility here

    Last thread punters have it right bojo odds on to go this year

    This thread nailed in position till 2024
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Last thread was right
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,619
    edited January 2022
    The Sixth (Sick Sheik's Sixth Sheep's Sick)
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270
    Once again I have to admire Mike for this thread, since it comes from someone who stands to gain a massive win if Sunak IS next PM (a bet at 250/1).

    I think great political betting is about distancing oneself and observing as objectively and dispassionately as possible.

    Johnson is not giving up without a fight, that's for sure.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,306
    edited January 2022
    There is a vacancy in No. 10.

    It's just in the PM's skull, not his office.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270
    IshmaelZ said:



    This thread nailed in position till 2024

    Nowhere does Mike say that Johnson is nailed in until 2024, nor does he come anywhere near to that sentiment.

    He says, 'the chances are' and that therefore he 'surely would make it to the next general election'. There is nothing definite about those statements. It's a cautious and objective balance of probabilities.

    I'd say it's 60:40 Johnson will survive to 2024. That's a shift from my 70:30 yesterday.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,306

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    You had me interested there for minute, but it appears they were not wearing their uniforms at the time they threw them.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,268
    ydoethur said:

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    You had me interested there for minute, but it appears they were not wearing their uniforms at the time they threw them.
    Are they really staff? Look like a bunch of thugs and renta-protest types to me.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,306

    ydoethur said:

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    You had me interested there for minute, but it appears they were not wearing their uniforms at the time they threw them.
    Are they really staff? Look like a bunch of thugs and renta-protest types to me.
    I would just call them 'twats.' It's shorter and covers both eventualities.
  • Options
    C'mon BJ, get your finger out


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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    So, they have the right not to get vaccinated. But then I think patients should have the right to refuse to be treated by a doctor or nurse who’s not been vaccinated. Personally, I’d like to know, because I wouldn’t want to trust the clinical judgements of someone who wasn’t.
    Well exactly. I have a bit of sympathy for those in the wider community who are confronted by anti-vax propaganda and don't have the ability to read scientific journals and can thus be brain washed, but these people are bloody supposedly be trained to understand science.

    The knobhead who confronted Javid admitted that despite thinking he has had COVID, never tested positive, there were many months between being able to get the jab and having an antibody test which he says confirms he has had COVID as some point.

    So all the BS he was pushing of I am not an antivaxxer, I have just had COVID, so I don't need it, he didn't take the vaccine even when he had no idea he had ever had COVID.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:



    This thread nailed in position till 2024

    Nowhere does Mike say that Johnson is nailed in until 2024, nor does he come anywhere near to that sentiment.

    He says, 'the chances are' and that therefore he 'surely would make it to the next general election'. There is nothing definite about those statements. It's a cautious and objective balance of probabilities.

    I'd say it's 60:40 Johnson will survive to 2024. That's a shift from my 70:30 yesterday.
    Yes, sorry, that was shorthand intended for the consumption of the quicker witted.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,557
    I agree that Sunak is too short. It takes too little account of both no vacancy and the chance that 'anyone but a current minister' could be the right choice; ie Hunt, Tugendhat or AN Other. And Starmer at about 10/1 is value.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    algarkirk said:

    I agree that Sunak is too short. It takes too little account of both no vacancy and the chance that 'anyone but a current minister' could be the right choice; ie Hunt, Tugendhat or AN Other. And Starmer at about 10/1 is value.

    With that, and the risk of an interim PM, he is rubbish value. Mind you I wouldn't wanna be laying him either.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Hmmm. Let’s see what the weekend and next week brings. Me thinks there’ll be more bad news for Johnson.

    The only thing saving him (I think) is a Russian invasion on Ukraine
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    algarkirk said:

    I agree that Sunak is too short. It takes too little account of both no vacancy and the chance that 'anyone but a current minister' could be the right choice; ie Hunt, Tugendhat or AN Other. And Starmer at about 10/1 is value.

    He is - about 5ft 6inches I believe,
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270

    @Steven_Swinford

    The operation to save Boris Johnson is well underway - he’s determined to stay no matter what Gray finds

    ‘The PM is literally the most competitive person imaginable

    ‘He wants to outlast Dave [Cameron]. He won’t accept the last Etonian PM having survived longer than him’
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270
    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    2h
    Boris Johnson allies furious over 1922 committee proposals to change rules to allow 2 confidence votes in year

    ‘It would be incredibly cynical, a manipulation of process

    ‘If they get rid of 12-month rule they will no longer be seen as fit for purpose. It would be end of 1922’
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270
    Wow this is going to be naaaasty
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    Heathener said:

    Wow this is going to be naaaasty

    You mean Germany aligning with Russia against fellow EU Baltic states
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    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,265
    edited January 2022
    From Fox, but might be true.. I've no idea; is 200,000lbs of ammo much in this context?

    @JenGriffinFNC
    10m
    @LucasFoxNews reports US officials now say Kiev is in Russia’s crosshairs after Russian fighter jets and S400 anti aircraft missile systems arrive in Belarus. First US shipment of 200,000 lbs of ammo arrived in Ukraine last night. More to come: US officials.
    https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1484915648291610629
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    2h
    Boris Johnson allies furious over 1922 committee proposals to change rules to allow 2 confidence votes in year

    ‘It would be incredibly cynical, a manipulation of process

    ‘If they get rid of 12-month rule they will no longer be seen as fit for purpose. It would be end of 1922’

    PLEASE link to tweets. What is the point of an @ which the site thinks means a vanilla user?

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1484883012600963072
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    So, they have the right not to get vaccinated. But then I think patients should have the right to refuse to be treated by a doctor or nurse who’s not been vaccinated. Personally, I’d like to know, because I wouldn’t want to trust the clinical judgements of someone who wasn’t.
    Well exactly. I have a bit of sympathy for those in the wider community who are confronted by anti-vax propaganda and don't have the ability to read scientific journals and can thus be brain washed, but these people are bloody supposedly be trained to understand science.

    The knobhead who confronted Javid admitted that despite thinking he has had COVID, never tested positive, there were many months between being able to get the jab and having an antibody test which he says confirms he has had COVID as some point.

    So all the BS he was pushing of I am not an antivaxxer, I have just had COVID, so I don't need it, he didn't take the vaccine even when he had no idea he had ever had COVID.
    Repost from this morning -

    COVID - Thanks to the stupidity of large numbers of Americans on not getting vaccinated we have new data...

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/unvaccinated-5x-more-likely-to-get-omicron-than-those-boosted-cdc-reports/

    - Vaccines (and especially boosters) do have an effect on infections rates. A substantial one. So the argument that vaccination does nothin for infection rates turns out to be garbage.
    - Massive effects on showing up at A&E
    - Massive effects on hospitalisation

    Please light a candle for all the fucking morons who died to give us this data.

    image
    image
    image
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,311
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
  • Options

    From Fox, but might be true.. I've no idea; is 200,000lbs of ammo much in this context?

    @JenGriffinFNC
    10m
    @LucasFoxNews reports US officials now say Kiev is in Russia’s crosshairs after Russian fighter jets and S400 anti aircraft missile systems arrive in Belarus. First US shipment of 200,000 lbs of ammo arrived in Ukraine last night. More to come: US officials.
    https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1484915648291610629

    @IshmaelZ I edited my @'s just for you.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    From Fox, but might be true.. I've no idea; is 200,000lbs of ammo much in this context?

    @JenGriffinFNC
    10m
    @LucasFoxNews reports US officials now say Kiev is in Russia’s crosshairs after Russian fighter jets and S400 anti aircraft missile systems arrive in Belarus. First US shipment of 200,000 lbs of ammo arrived in Ukraine last night. More to come: US officials.
    https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1484915648291610629

    @IshmaelZ I edited my @'s just for you.
    Thank You!
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    The country is more important than Boris
  • Options
    Heathener said:


    @Steven_Swinford

    The operation to save Boris Johnson is well underway - he’s determined to stay no matter what Gray finds

    ‘The PM is literally the most competitive person imaginable

    ‘He wants to outlast Dave [Cameron]. He won’t accept the last Etonian PM having survived longer than him’

    Hell, as things stand, the last PM from Wheatley Park Comprehensive (OK, it was Holton Park Girls' Grammar School when she arrived) ought to be on track to survive longer than him. That Friends of Boris are more concerned with intra-Etonian rivalries is one of those minor but very revealing comments.

    In the meantime, whoever deposes Boris has to have the power to do so. The voters have that power, but not until 2024. In the meantime, it all depends on whether Boris can bluff, blag, bluster and bully his MPs into continuing to support him.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466

    From Fox, but might be true.. I've no idea; is 200,000lbs of ammo much in this context?

    @JenGriffinFNC
    10m
    @LucasFoxNews reports US officials now say Kiev is in Russia’s crosshairs after Russian fighter jets and S400 anti aircraft missile systems arrive in Belarus. First US shipment of 200,000 lbs of ammo arrived in Ukraine last night. More to come: US officials.
    https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1484915648291610629

    Depends what it is. Artillery ammo - not very much. High end, top attack anti tank missiles - that's quite something...
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
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    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    The country is more important than Boris
    (whispers) Are you going to tell him? Not sure I fancy the job myself.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    The country is more important than Boris
    Fine. But if the Tory grandees can select the leader - simply by rewriting the rules when those rules keep the leader in place - then just give them the power to do it and dispense with the pretence. Just return to the Men in Grey Suits.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,980

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    Because that would take the decision out of the hands of the MPs. As things stand, and with the proposed changes, a majority of the MPs need to vote against the leader in order to depose them.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,806
    ydoethur said:

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    You had me interested there for minute, but it appears they were not wearing their uniforms at the time they threw them.
    Bit parky today.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,306

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,249
    ydoethur said:

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    You had me interested there for minute, but it appears they were not wearing their uniforms at the time they threw them.
    I'm on Sine Die Johnson, living until aged 110, giving us 55 more years of the World King. Thankfully I will be long departed from his Mad Max dystopian nightmare by then.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,270
    edited January 2022

    Heathener said:


    @Steven_Swinford

    The operation to save Boris Johnson is well underway - he’s determined to stay no matter what Gray finds

    ‘The PM is literally the most competitive person imaginable

    ‘He wants to outlast Dave [Cameron]. He won’t accept the last Etonian PM having survived longer than him’

    Hell, as things stand, the last PM from Wheatley Park Comprehensive (OK, it was Holton Park Girls' Grammar School when she arrived) ought to be on track to survive longer than him. That Friends of Boris are more concerned with intra-Etonian rivalries is one of those minor but very revealing comments.

    In the meantime, whoever deposes Boris has to have the power to do so. The voters have that power, but not until 2024. In the meantime, it all depends on whether Boris can bluff, blag, bluster and bully his MPs into continuing to support him.
    Yes, as a hopeful leftie I was thinking what would be most injurious to Boris? For a long time I've thought it would be losing his seat on the night the tories take a trouncing.

    But I actually think the ultimate crushing of the Boris Johnson ego would be defenestration at the hands of his own MPs and being booted out of Downing Street.

    'That' picture of Margaret Thatcher is one of the most iconic in C20th politics.

    Tony Blair, whose ego must match Boris Johnson's, managed to exit stage left (almost literally from the House of Commons) before an irate electorate had the chance to give him the boot. Dave Cameron in a way did something similar.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    He is perfectly capable of convincing himself that he meant something different to what he said and therefore didn’t actually lie and therefore doesn’t need to step down. A few weeks ago I thought he might fancy stepping down to make some money but the behaviour since from him and his outriders suggests differently. The only thing that would make him stand down is if his abacus showed 250-300 MPs due to vote against him.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,913
    “God Save the Queen” is trending on Ukranian Twitter.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/01/22/god-save-queen-trends-twitter-ukrainians-celebrate-british-arms/

    Proud to be British this evening 🇬🇧 🇺🇦
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,557

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    The country is more important than Boris
    Fine. But if the Tory grandees can select the leader - simply by rewriting the rules when those rules keep the leader in place - then just give them the power to do it and dispense with the pretence. Just return to the Men in Grey Suits.
    This is overblown. However often MPs can vote on their leader the decision still rests with them, as it did before.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    UK cases by specimen date

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    UK local R

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    Case summary

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    Hospitals

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    Deaths

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    Sandpit said:

    “God Save the Queen” is trending on Ukranian Twitter.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/01/22/god-save-queen-trends-twitter-ukrainians-celebrate-british-arms/

    Proud to be British this evening 🇬🇧 🇺🇦

    You and Grimesy.
    In fact very similar post. Hmmm..




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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited January 2022
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-mid 19th century. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    Age related data

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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    The link in this tweet gets you to a nonpaywall version of the Times long read "Poisonous atmosphere spreads through No 10 ‘nest of adders’"

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1484883012600963072

    Heartening stuff for bojo is toasters
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,039
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    As Tory MPs as a whole would still need to have the final vote in any VONC, even if a second VONC was to be allowed in less than a year after the first by the 1922 and party board.

    Tory members would then have the final say in any subsequent leadership election if that VONC was lost once Tory MPs had whittled it down to 2 candidates
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    COVID summary

    Cases - pretty flat overall. BUT cases are falling in the 15+ groups. The unvaccinated children are flattening a continuing fall

    image

    Admissions - Down
    MV Beds - Down
    In Hospital - Down
    Deaths - flat

    image
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022

    Getting f##king vaccinated....

    Staff throw their uniforms at the police outside Downing Street.
    https://twitter.com/SubjectAccesss/status/1484907250821046273?s=20

    So, they have the right not to get vaccinated. But then I think patients should have the right to refuse to be treated by a doctor or nurse who’s not been vaccinated. Personally, I’d like to know, because I wouldn’t want to trust the clinical judgements of someone who wasn’t.
    Well exactly. I have a bit of sympathy for those in the wider community who are confronted by anti-vax propaganda and don't have the ability to read scientific journals and can thus be brain washed, but these people are bloody supposedly be trained to understand science.

    The knobhead who confronted Javid admitted that despite thinking he has had COVID, never tested positive, there were many months between being able to get the jab and having an antibody test which he says confirms he has had COVID as some point.

    So all the BS he was pushing of I am not an antivaxxer, I have just had COVID, so I don't need it, he didn't take the vaccine even when he had no idea he had ever had COVID.
    Repost from this morning -

    COVID - Thanks to the stupidity of large numbers of Americans on not getting vaccinated we have new data...

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/unvaccinated-5x-more-likely-to-get-omicron-than-those-boosted-cdc-reports/

    The US are performing a real life experiment of what happens in among the same population from non-vax, 2 doses, and 3 doses. Large cohorts of each.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    As Tory MPs as a whole would still need to have the final vote in any VONC
    Is that an immutable requirement of the Tory constitution or could, in theory, the 1922 Committee abolish it as a requirement if they chose?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,806

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Currently the subject of debate as to his involvement in slavery vs abolition. I have not been following that debate but I get the impression that his statue might have been bothered by now if it weren't for the fact it is up something the size of Nelson's Column. Outside his former palazzo, too, now a ****-you bank branch (in the background here) which would turn at least one PBer green with envy.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9542988,-3.1933972,3a,90y,76.2h,93.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGx89Qbb_mqkz0sm7sykJUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundas_House
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2022
    Covid hits Comoros before crunch Cameroon clash

    The tournament debutants play hosts and five-time champions Cameroon in Yaounde on Monday, but their camp has been hit by 12 positive Covid cases including coach Amir Abdou.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/60097828
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:


    @Steven_Swinford

    The operation to save Boris Johnson is well underway - he’s determined to stay no matter what Gray finds

    ‘The PM is literally the most competitive person imaginable

    ‘He wants to outlast Dave [Cameron]. He won’t accept the last Etonian PM having survived longer than him’

    Hell, as things stand, the last PM from Wheatley Park Comprehensive (OK, it was Holton Park Girls' Grammar School when she arrived) ought to be on track to survive longer than him. That Friends of Boris are more concerned with intra-Etonian rivalries is one of those minor but very revealing comments.

    In the meantime, whoever deposes Boris has to have the power to do so. The voters have that power, but not until 2024. In the meantime, it all depends on whether Boris can bluff, blag, bluster and bully his MPs into continuing to support him.
    Yes, as a hopeful leftie I was thinking what would be most injurious to Boris? For a long time I've thought it would be losing his seat on the night the tories take a trouncing.

    But I actually think the ultimate crushing of the Boris Johnson ego would be defenestration at the hands of his own MPs and being booted out of Downing Street.

    'That' picture of Margaret Thatcher is one of the most iconic in C20th politics.

    Tony Blair, whose ego must match Boris Johnson's, managed to exit stage left (almost literally from the House of Commons) before an irate electorate had the chance to give him the boot. Dave Cameron in a way did something similar.
    Boris is the most left wing Tory leader in recent times. Any replacement would be more rightwing. Sharper lefties (eg, BJO) get this.

    Forget the personalities, the game of politics is all about shifting the Overton window in your direction.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-mid 19th century. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    At least there's no danger of Edinburgh putting up a monument to Johnston. Glasgow should definitely have this carved in stone somewhere though.




  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,348
    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,806
    edited January 2022

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Don't think so - more that the French unsportingly lost the war so zero prospect of promotion in a hugely expanded officer corps unless you went off and found yourself another war.

    Edit: indeed almost zero prospect of any jobs at all, unless you had connections: so sitting "onm the beach" with "half-pay" (not quite that much of a reduction, but still).
  • Options
    If the EPL results stay as they are at the moment, MOTD is going to be a thriller tonight....
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    “God Save the Queen” is trending on Ukranian Twitter.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/01/22/god-save-queen-trends-twitter-ukrainians-celebrate-british-arms/

    Proud to be British this evening 🇬🇧 🇺🇦

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heil_dir_im_Siegerkranz
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,039
    edited January 2022
    ping said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:


    @Steven_Swinford

    The operation to save Boris Johnson is well underway - he’s determined to stay no matter what Gray finds

    ‘The PM is literally the most competitive person imaginable

    ‘He wants to outlast Dave [Cameron]. He won’t accept the last Etonian PM having survived longer than him’

    Hell, as things stand, the last PM from Wheatley Park Comprehensive (OK, it was Holton Park Girls' Grammar School when she arrived) ought to be on track to survive longer than him. That Friends of Boris are more concerned with intra-Etonian rivalries is one of those minor but very revealing comments.

    In the meantime, whoever deposes Boris has to have the power to do so. The voters have that power, but not until 2024. In the meantime, it all depends on whether Boris can bluff, blag, bluster and bully his MPs into continuing to support him.
    Yes, as a hopeful leftie I was thinking what would be most injurious to Boris? For a long time I've thought it would be losing his seat on the night the tories take a trouncing.

    But I actually think the ultimate crushing of the Boris Johnson ego would be defenestration at the hands of his own MPs and being booted out of Downing Street.

    'That' picture of Margaret Thatcher is one of the most iconic in C20th politics.

    Tony Blair, whose ego must match Boris Johnson's, managed to exit stage left (almost literally from the House of Commons) before an irate electorate had the chance to give him the boot. Dave Cameron in a way did something similar.
    Boris is the most left wing Tory leader in recent times. Any replacement would be more rightwing. Sharper lefties (eg, BJO) get this.

    Forget the personalities, the game of politics is all about shifting the Overton window in your direction.
    Economically Boris is certainly left of Cameron, May and arguably even Blair. Only Brown of post 2000 PMs has been more economically leftwing than Boris.

    Socially however Boris is the most culturally conservative PM we have had since Thatcher and he is also the most Eurosceptic PM since Thatcher, obviously since he implemented Brexit
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Quite a history of Scots in Russia. Lermontov is a Russification of Learmonth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    If the EPL results stay as they are at the moment, MOTD is going to be a thriller tonight....

    Haha. We'll have to settle for Boris squirming instead
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,039
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    As Tory MPs as a whole would still need to have the final vote in any VONC
    Is that an immutable requirement of the Tory constitution or could, in theory, the 1922 Committee abolish it as a requirement if they chose?
    The 1922 Committee could not change the VONC rules and certainly not abolish the VONC mechanism without the party board agreeing too, the 1922 cannot change the leadership election rules without agreement from the National Party Convention as well as the party board as well
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,348
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
    True

    TBH I’m only drinking it because the bar has RUN OUT OF TONIC = no G&T

    It wouldn’t have happened during the Raj. And if it had happened, the bar manager would surely have been keelhauled in the bay by the Royal Navy
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-mid 19th century. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    At least there's no danger of Edinburgh putting up a monument to Johnston. Glasgow should definitely have this carved in stone somewhere though.




    I like the deliberate misspell but why 'still'? Was he ever not?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,349
    Heathener said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    2h
    Boris Johnson allies furious over 1922 committee proposals to change rules to allow 2 confidence votes in year

    ‘It would be incredibly cynical, a manipulation of process

    ‘If they get rid of 12-month rule they will no longer be seen as fit for purpose. It would be end of 1922’

    New betting market, perhaps: "Will Boris Johnoson outlast the 1922 Committee"? I can see the campaign slogan now: "100 years is enough!"
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
    True

    TBH I’m only drinking it because the bar has RUN OUT OF TONIC = no G&T

    It wouldn’t have happened during the Raj. And if it had happened, the bar manager would surely have been keelhauled in the bay by the Royal Navy
    Make them make you a gin fizz
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,466
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Don't think so - more that the French unsportingly lost the war so zero prospect of promotion in a hugely expanded officer corps unless you went off and found yourself another war.

    Edit: indeed almost zero prospect of any jobs at all, unless you had connections: so sitting "onm the beach" with "half-pay" (not quite that much of a reduction, but still).
    All the lucrative jobs in the anti-slavery stuff were filled faster than tramps on chips.

    There were some interesting (and lucrative) jobs around the world - South America and Greece for starters...
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,806
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
    True

    TBH I’m only drinking it because the bar has RUN OUT OF TONIC = no G&T

    It wouldn’t have happened during the Raj. And if it had happened, the bar manager would surely have been keelhauled in the bay by the Royal Navy
    Make them make you a gin fizz
    The Andrew used to go for pink gins AIUI.
  • Options
    ajbajb Posts: 123

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    An interesting scenario, as it would only require 37 conservatives to vote for it (assuming all opposition MPs do) as opposed to 50% of them in a VoNC. I suspect however that conservatives would prefer not to give the opposition any kind of victory. Maybe if the motion was moved by a conservative that would be enough of a fig leaf.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,014

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Quite a history of Scots in Russia. Lermontov is a Russification of Learmonth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
    Quite a few settled on the Baltic and effectively became part of the Baltic German ethnic group. The Barclay de Tolly family was descended from Scots and the famous general was born in Courland and grew up in Livonia (now Estonia - he has a statue in Tartu).
  • Options
    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-mid 19th century. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    At least there's no danger of Edinburgh putting up a monument to Johnston. Glasgow should definitely have this carved in stone somewhere though.




    I like the deliberate misspell but why 'still'? Was he ever not?
    The original (spelled correctly) was 'Boris Johnson is a pure fanny' but the owner of the billboard painted it out. With the tenacity born of generations of contempt for Tories the artist returned..
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    Is your seat up in May? I sincerely hope you lose, if so.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited January 2022

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    A job is a job. Since the Middle Ages, and before, Scots and their families have earned good money in the Baltic countries (Russia, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Germany etc). Not just work, but emigration and immigration. Poland, Sweden and Russia in particular have a rich Scottish heritage.

    All crises in the home country encouraged further waves of activity. The Union was one such crisis, as was the Jacobite rising, the Killing Times and the fall of Dundas.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,503
    edited January 2022
    A bookmaker received around $420,000 (£310,000) worth of bets on a controversial yellow card received by an Arsenal player in a Premier League fixture this season, and flagged it to the international betting watchdog over “manipulation” concerns, The Athletic can reveal.

    As The Athletic reported earlier in the week, the Football Association is currently looking into an incident from this season which involved an Arsenal player being booked. Concerns were raised about suspicious betting patterns.

    There is no formal FA investigation at this stage.

    It has now come to light that correspondence took place between a bookmaker — based outside the UK — and the International Betting Integrity Association (IBIA) about the incident before The Athletic revealed the FA was looking it.

    The emails detail how multiple bets of around $420,000 worth of cryptocurrency were placed on the player in question to get a yellow card — which then happened.

    This should have led to winnings of over $1 million (£738,000), but the huge bets placed on the yellow card aroused suspicions at the bookmaker, and an internal investigation concluded the market may have been subject to manipulation.

    This led the bookmaker to flag the issue to the International Betting Integrity Association (IBIA). Bookmakers are required to report to authorities when they spot suspicious incidents. Multiple gambling industry insiders have told The Athletic that the pattern of betting surrounding the player being shown a yellow card during the match was highly unusual.

    Some betting patterns, such as on gambling “exchanges” where individuals bet with each other rather than against a bookmaker’s own odds, can be viewed publicly.

    But most money gambled around the world is gambled on sportsbooks where the data is kept private, and it is never made public how much money is wagered on a particular outcome.

    The correspondence seen by The Athletic reveals that for one bookmaker, a huge sum of money was staked on this yellow card, which arose suspicions serious enough for the company to raise concerns to the IBIA.

    The bookmaker in question is not a member of the IBIA, but chose to make a voluntary disclosure.

    The IBIA works closely with sporting authorities including the FA, sharing information about suspicious betting activity.


    https://theathletic.com/3085772/2022/01/22/bookmaker-flagged-420000-bet-on-controversial-arsenal-yellow-card-to-watchdog/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,039
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    Is your seat up in May? I sincerely hope you lose, if so.
    No it isn't, I am not standing in May for district and my town council seat is next up in 2023
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,806

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Quite a history of Scots in Russia. Lermontov is a Russification of Learmonth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
    Quite a few settled on the Baltic and effectively became part of the Baltic German ethnic group. The Barclay de Tolly family was descended from Scots and the famous general was born in Courland and grew up in Livonia (now Estonia - he has a statue in Tartu).
    Industrialists too. I used to walk past this Edinburgh plaque daily. Finland was part of the Tsarist empire then so I suppose it counts.

    https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2132021
  • Options


    The emails detail how multiple bets of around $420,000 worth of cryptocurrency were placed on the player in question to get a yellow card — which then happened.

    https://theathletic.com/3085772/2022/01/22/bookmaker-flagged-420000-bet-on-controversial-arsenal-yellow-card-to-watchdog/

    Their crypto will be worth about $1.50 now....
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is probably going to be a VONC next week, with the final letters going in to Sir Graham after the Gray report is published, likely on Monday. However for now Boris should probably scrape home.

    If the local elections in May see heavy Tory losses and the polls are still bad, then the 1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board. At that point Boris is more likely to lose it. There would then be a leadership election which Sunak would probably win to become next PM. Assuming Tory MPs can concoct a Sunak v Hunt runoff, thus keeping Truss off the ballot paper. Truss polls well with members but terribly with the public overall

    All seems a bit farcical to me. If '1922 may enable a second VONC to be held by amending the rules in consultation with the party board' then surely 1992 and the party board ultimately have the power to select the leader no matter what. So why not simply give them the power to do it and dispense with the other stuff, which they can overrule anyway.
    As Tory MPs as a whole would still need to have the final vote in any VONC
    Is that an immutable requirement of the Tory constitution or could, in theory, the 1922 Committee abolish it as a requirement if they chose?
    The 1922 Committee could not change the VONC rules and certainly not abolish the VONC mechanism without the party board agreeing too, the 1922 cannot change the leadership election rules without agreement from the National Party Convention as well as the party board as well
    In that case I think my points stands: if the 1922 Committee and the board want to get rid of a leader they can by simply rewriting the rules if those rules protect the leader. The Men in Grey Suits have the ultimate say.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,348

    https://www.ft.com/content/8d6bdc5d-1020-4322-98c5-1bc3f61d4b02

    I really am sick and tired of all this. It's the Financial Times for goodness sake. Who is the first expert they quote? Deepti Gurdasani the well known covid hysteric and advocate for zero covid. At the end we get something from Christina Pagel (never to be left out of any discussion). I admit that most FT readers are not fans of Johnson and even less so the backbenchers pulling him away from restrictions but it's a lazy appeal to your readers' prejudices.

    I do hope that attitudes are now shifting among my centre-left fellow travellers. Many of the comments underneath clearly do not support the article's intention. I spent Christmas with close relatives with three young children. They aren't ideological people and Johnson probably just makes them groan but they're concerned for their children's futures and wondering why there was such reluctance to mention that omicron was milder when all the evidence started to point that way. They were worried about the impact of covid on their children's mental health, both the fear of the disease and the impact of restrictions. They were even a bit concerned about the possible weakening of their general immunity due to the lack of social contact over the last two years.

    If people want to persist with masks and work from home mandates, fine. But please tell me when exactly you would remove such things? What would it take for them to withdraw ALL restrictions. If they don't really believe in going to back to the 'old' normal, i.e in person teaching at universities, cinemas theatres and schools without face mask mandates, 'passports' of various kinds, then please say so. At the moment such people just seem to be saying 'no'. At least zero covid was a strategy even if it was implausible.

    Most of all I'm sick and tired of those 'experts' who display no humility even when outside their own specialist area of interest, never engage in debate with eminent academics who disagree with them and resort to straw man or indirect arguments. I do want to mention some exceptions. Tim Spector with the Zoe app. Raghib Ali, a Cambridge epidemiologist and frontline doctor and John Campbell of youtube fame. It would be nice if the mainstream media called on him to provide some of his calm, unbiased interpretation of the data. Maybe calling upon someone who lives in the rural north of England isn't really considered the done thing at the BBC, Sky or Channel 4. In a sane world such people would at least be rewarded for their coverage of the pandemic whereas the aforementioned doomsayers would disappear into the ether after the Warholian fifteen minutes are up. We can always hope.

    Well said

    Fries my brain, too. It would be nice if just one of these self-appointed Guardians of the Zero Covid Flame ever said Ooops, yes, got that totally wrong, I’ll shut the fuck up for a bit, apologies everyone, I’m an idiot

    Because they have been wrong many times (and sometimes maybe right). Trouble is they are professionally invested in the Lockdown Narrative, it has won them attention, followers, fame, probably money and work. So they can’t back down.

    It is corrupt and they are wankers
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Quite a history of Scots in Russia. Lermontov is a Russification of Learmonth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
    Quite a few settled on the Baltic and effectively became part of the Baltic German ethnic group. The Barclay de Tolly family was descended from Scots and the famous general was born in Courland and grew up in Livonia (now Estonia - he has a statue in Tartu).
    Yes, there was a Nowe Szkoty/Neu Schottland quarter in Danzig. Gdansk is deffo on my list if travel gets back to normal in the next couple of years.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,348
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
    True

    TBH I’m only drinking it because the bar has RUN OUT OF TONIC = no G&T

    It wouldn’t have happened during the Raj. And if it had happened, the bar manager would surely have been keelhauled in the bay by the Royal Navy
    Make them make you a gin fizz

    Aren’t you meant to be sailing around Cape Verde?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    - “… the only way he’s is going to be pushed aside is if there’s a vote of confidence that he loses.“

    Impeachment?

    Most likely scenario is he is clearly nailed as having lied to HoC. In those circs I think even he would realise the game was up
    The last impeachment was that of Henry Dundas, 1st Viscount Melville in 1806; since then, other forms of democratic scrutiny (notably the doctrine of collective cabinet responsibility) have been favoured and the process has been considered as an obsolete—but still extant—power of Parliament.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Interesting that the last person impeached was Scottish.
    Not a coincidence. Scotland was effectively ruled as a Tory colony/dictatorship 1707-1800ish. Dundas was de facto Viceroy/Dictator of Scotland, albeit an “Enlightened” one. During the Victorian era, the Scottish Liberals gained hegemony. Then a series of Liberal splits/breakaways occurred (Labour, SNP, Liberal Unionists etc).
    Is that why so many Scottish naval officers ended up working for the Russian navy around then (like the guy who founded Sevastopol Thomas MacKenzie's father, and his wife's grandfather Thomas Gordon)?
    Quite a history of Scots in Russia. Lermontov is a Russification of Learmonth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
    Also a good reminder that Russia wasn't always the enemy and won't always be so. In some important conflicts we've been on the same side or at the very least fighting a common enemy. The Russian people are not the problem. In fact, they have the same problem we do, Vladimir Putin. It would be most welcome if they did to him what they did to the Romanovs in 1917.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting on a balcony in Kollupitiya, Colombo 3, overlooking the starlit Indian Ocean, drinking the world’s FUCK OFFEST Gin Martini. It’s about a pint in quantity

    You?

    Either you down it in one or it'll be lukewarm before you're through. Not sure which is more eeeuch

    Send it back.
    True

    TBH I’m only drinking it because the bar has RUN OUT OF TONIC = no G&T

    It wouldn’t have happened during the Raj. And if it had happened, the bar manager would surely have been keelhauled in the bay by the Royal Navy
    Make them make you a gin fizz

    Aren’t you meant to be sailing around Cape Verde?
    Mid Feb, God willing
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,648
    I find it difficult to believe that a significant chunk of Tory MPs actually want Bozo as PM.

    All I can think is that a lash-up of 'Not Rishi', 'Not The Truss' and other assorted factions who are against one or other of the potential replacements dare not replace the Buffoon because the replacement might not be their chosen one.

    Plus there's a few on the front bench who know that as soon as Bozo goes, they'll be next out.

    Let the open wound that is the Tory Party fester away until the next election. The longer this goes on, the more it plays into Labour's hands.
This discussion has been closed.