"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
Is it shocking? We know about Boris Johnson's comments on Muslims, and he has Zac Goldsmith, who ran an Islamophobic mayoral campaign, in his cabinet. You knew this about Boris before the election. We all did.
Labour was led by Corbyn and the lib dems tried to subvert Brexit, so of course the conservatives won a near landslide
Maybe labour and the lib dems need to look at themselves over GE19
Yeah, I guess when it comes down to it I was more comfortable with being offered a second referendum on Brexit than I was with hating Jews and Muslims.
Fine if you want to make a moral equivalence between more democracy and more racism, but I don't. Not today and not ever.
There's a big ol' gulf between policies you don't like and racism. I hope you can quietly recognise that.
I absolutely hate racism
According to Boris Johnson, racism is fine if can be framed as satire.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
is 'getting away with it' the British disease (along with all the other ones)?
Is it shocking? We know about Boris Johnson's comments on Muslims, and he has Zac Goldsmith, who ran an Islamophobic mayoral campaign, in his cabinet. You knew this about Boris before the election. We all did.
Labour was led by Corbyn and the lib dems tried to subvert Brexit, so of course the conservatives won a near landslide
Maybe labour and the lib dems need to look at themselves over GE19
Yeah, I guess when it comes down to it I was more comfortable with being offered a second referendum on Brexit than I was with hating Jews and Muslims.
Fine if you want to make a moral equivalence between more democracy and more racism, but I don't. Not today and not ever.
There's a big ol' gulf between policies you don't like and racism. I hope you can quietly recognise that.
I absolutely hate racism
According to Boris Johnson, racism is fine if can be framed as satire.
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
Absurd, the private sector pays more in London as cost of living is higher, so should the public sector
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein!
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
Absurd, the private sector pays more in London as cost of living is higher, so should the public sector
Lol.
Frame this discussion! A leftie arguing for lower public sector remuneration, a rightie arguing to keep it higher. We’ve reached the end of ideology.
A good bloke. A cut and a half above his sleazy colleagues
It should stand him in good stead, and if it doesn’t, he’s better off out of it.
He was one of the few who voted against the Paterson nonsense, but before that I hadn't noticed anything disloyal at all. That's something other MPs would respect I think. Shows a certain amount of judgement.
I think it puts him in the front line of the decent Tory MPs. If the Conservative Party ever does return to its senses and some kind of respectability, our Aaron will be among its leaders. He has put down his marker.
On the same note, so has William Wragg. I still think he is destined to lose Hazel Grove at the next election, but his recent stand has made it just that little bit more difficult for the Lib Dem challenger, Lisa Smart, who is the latest Lib Dem PPC to be put in place.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
I've finally tracked down the interestingy named 'Mark Spencer' Not an easy name to find! He's the person who was filmed marching along Downing St shouting 'HE'S A HERO!'. He seemed very angry that the news pack didn't recognise that description
Starship Troopers is on Paramount Network (Freeview 32, Sky 150) at 10.50pm.
"MI do the dying, Fleet just do the flying"
Heinlein's writing seemed to have two modes: utter trash or inspired genuis.
The continual references to incest did nothing to enhance it
Yes, but Verhoevan didn't exactly stick to the book. Just made one of the most morally disturbing Sci Fi films. A real hymn to Facism and genocide.
Hymn, or extended piss take ?
The thing is with Verhoevan, it is always hard to be sure, just look at his other films. Both Black Book and Soldier of Orange are quite morally ambiguous, and is Robocop satirical?
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
Interesting to bring up 1870 - The French lesson* from which was not to be the aggressor. They retreated to their fortifications in 1914, several kilometres inside France. The Germans invaded..... If the Germans hadn't attacked France in 1914, there would have been no war with France.
The Germans came up with an interesting justification for conquering Belgium - since they couldn't have attacked France successfully without going through Belgium, they had the right to attack Belgium as well. And it was illegal for the Belgians to resist!
Perhaps in 1945 we should have been nice to what was left of Germany, otherwise they might have been upset and tried again in 1960?
The Ukrainians are just living in their country. It's got its problems, sure. But they aren't massacring or even poking hard the various minorities - who are showing little interest in wanting to be "liberated" by Russia. It's a country where the opposition can win the election and take power. They aren't preparing to march on Moscow or Berlin. They just want to be.
If various Russian nationalists get bent out of shape because Ukraine keeps on existing, why should they get to dictate what hap[pens there?
What are your thoughts on the Germans training the Russian army *after* the first Ukraine War? Not exactly neutral, is it?
* First** rule of Revanche Club - the Germans will start the next war. Be ready. ** Second rule of Revanche Club - make friends with absolutely everyone apart from Germany.
“If the Germans hadn't attacked France in 1914, there would have been no war with France. “
I don’t recognise that as accurate history. The French had been agitating for the war for Forty years, hence French entente with Britain and Russia, boxing the Germans in forcing them to act sooner than later created the war.
“What are your thoughts on the Germans training the Russian army *after* the first Ukraine War? Not exactly neutral, is it?”
I was in a play set in Ukraine after the First World War, there were so many different protagonists at war with each other it left me thinking it’s a very complicated part of the world where some people inside a nation state can fairly look in one direction, others in another. Rather like the Balkans, you have to try to fashion peace out of one village looking in one direction, next door village in another.
The cheek of people calling me an appeaser, when in my mind and posts the horror this proxy war theatre is going to rain down on the people in these villages and towns - when after all that horror the locals will get absolutely zilch from it, their current questions will remain unanswered by it.
“If the Germans hadn't attacked France in 1914, there would have been no war with France. “
I’ll share my understanding of this history ‘Malmesbury as it is very very different to yours.
The French had been agitating for the war for Forty years, hence French entente with Britain and Russia, boxing the Germans in forcing them to act sooner than later created the war. If they waited longer the powers against them would get stronger taking away any advantage. Even then the German plan needed a quick knock out of France taking Paris so they could turn attention to the eastern front. Despite so many First World War films in trenches the first month or so was very fluid because the German success depended on not getting bogged down in western front, but they did so early on their fate was ultimately sealed. In 1914 the liberal cabinet were trying to decipher what that entente cordial they had agreed with French was as it wasn’t certain we would join in, indeed some objected and left the liberal government. I get this from books on David Lloyd George I had read. His voice was important at this timeGeorge had built reputation by 1914 by opposing the Boer war with argument the Boers were only defending their homes and land against the British. But he agreed with supporting entente cordial with France he said he feared a German Empire across Europe looking across to the British coastline.
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
Absurd, the private sector pays more in London as cost of living is higher, so should the public sector
Don't think you're getting what levelling up actually implies.
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
Absurd, the private sector pays more in London as cost of living is higher, so should the public sector
Don't think you're getting what levelling up actually implies.
You can buy a house in the North for less than half the price of one in London.
Hence more Northerners own a property now than Londoners as a percentage.
I doubt they want to be levelled up so much they can no longer afford to buy a property as most Londoners no longer can do as London is so expensive
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
That would be the Irish Sea border dreamt up by a Conservative govt and put in place by Boris after appearing in a video telling NI businessmen what a fantastic deal he had got from the EU?
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
London weighting wants binning if Gove is short of levelling up ideas. Do a job? Get paid the rate. Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive? More fool you.
Absurd, the private sector pays more in London as cost of living is higher, so should the public sector
Lol.
Frame this discussion! A leftie arguing for lower public sector remuneration, a rightie arguing to keep it higher. We’ve reached the end of ideology.
Indeed. The ironies are strong. Don't think I'm necessarily arguing for lower renumeration. Just for equal pay for equal work. Which will, of course mean lower pay for some. And higher pay for others. But, good teaching, as an example, in somewhere like Ashington is just as, arguably more, vital than in Hackney. At the moment, it isn't paid like it is.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
That would be the Irish Sea border dreamt up by a Conservative govt and put in place by Boris after appearing in a video telling NI businessmen what a fantastic deal he had got from the EU?
Well the alternative was putting a hard border in Ireland and No Deal which you would have been whinging about forever. It was the EU who demanded a hard border in the Irish Sea for a trade deal with the UK, not Boris
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
In Northern Ireland in the Troubles certainly the IRA killed more than the British Army whatever Sinn Fein/IRA apologists may say
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
It seems appeasement is alive and well in certain dark corners of PB
You need to explain your insult and slur with better detail!
Your argument is a variant on the old Belloc rhyme
"always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse"
Not your usual BELLOCose response I was expecting. Don’t go easy on me just because I am a girly half your age with a horse and piglet obsession.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about. You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
- "The war started because of the vile Brits and their villainous empire-building!"
- "HYUFD, the Russian Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the British Empire consists of a small curry house in Mumbai. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front."
Just a reminder that Nus Ghani was sacked for being a Muslim the same time the Muslim Sajid Javid was ousted as Chancellor.
Hmmm....
Was that not thought to be Mr Cummings doing?
Well that was the spin....
I'm doubtful about this. Boris may be many things but not dumb-ass racist. He's a one-man melting pot.
I am SHOCKED a Prime Minister who compared Muslim women wearing the burqa to “letterboxes” and “bank robbers” would appoint Islamophobes to his government.
Don't forget the piccaninnies!
Heavily overegged.
"Picaninnies" was a good satire of Tony Blair's imperial progress to avoid the UK where he was unpopular.
Letterboxes and bank robbers were exactly the same sentiments as previous comments by the likes of Harriet Harman, expressed in journalese rather than politico.
The "letterboxes" and "bankrobbers" speech was not satire it was a carefully crafted dog whistle. Besides which it is humourless.
And picanninies and the offensive stereotypical observation? Who uses such old colonialist terms, other than an old colonialist?
The thing about his old comments is it is the same old ones each time, from an increasingly long time ago, so however wrong it might be if not backed up by more recent events and actions, it loses teeth as an effective attack, since it is not as though the Cabinet is undiverse. The Ghani allegation is doubly serious both for itself, and for making quite older stuff suddenly seem more part of a patten.
The 'letterboxes and bankrobbers' article, taking the piss out of (some) Muslim women while ironically defending their right to wear what they like, was in August 2018. Not very long ago. Just after he'd resigned as Foreign Secretary, and just over a year before he became PM.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
- "The war started because of the vile Brits and their villainous empire-building!"
- "HYUFD, the Russian Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the British Empire consists of a small curry house in Mumbai. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front."
Mumbai? HYUFD is currently carving BOMBAY IS BRITISH angrily into his desk with a penknife.
So the Boris show has been accused of lies, hypocrisy, corruption and now racism. Very largely from his own benches.
I’ll hear the champagne corks popping all the way here in Manhattan when the crooked sea-lion finally barks his last.
I assume you do not mean that literally
I believe Gardenwalker's hearing is preternaturally good, but aye, probably not literally.
I'm still trying to work out whether Boris Johnson is literally a sea-lion.
Well..
Never heard of that one in my life. It's certainly a tactic. Similarly to NIMBY and similar tendencies to always need more evidence/info, no matter how much is provided which may well already address the points of objection, even if they don't like it.
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
It seems appeasement is alive and well in certain dark corners of PB
You need to explain your insult and slur with better detail!
Your argument is a variant on the old Belloc rhyme
"always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse"
Not your usual BELLOCose response I was expecting. Don’t go easy on me just because I am a girly half your age with a horse and piglet obsession.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about. You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
France and Germany* is a case in point. After the defeat of Napoleon, Metternich was keen on preserving France's territorial integrity, to prevent a spiral of revenge reprisals. He had to fight quite hard to prevent the other Great Powers carving up France like Sunday roast. And in the end he was correct. Nobody here (so far as I've seen) is recommending Russia be dismembered, just that its aggressive expansion be checked, by a coalition of countries if that's what's needed.
*technically the Austrian Empire, but that covered part of modern day Germany, and modern day Germany didn't exist at the time, so allow me the license.
"'We'll work from home forever': Civil servants vow to fight returning to offices despite Boris Johnson declaring war on the 'Whitehall blob' – as some officials even relocate out to the Cotswolds and Cornwall to WFH
Boris Johnson is currently pushing for an end to working-from-home culture But some senior officials are planning to keep many staff remote permanently Government sources said the plan is for a 60:40 split between home and office"
And then someone realises that since they are not living or working in London, London Weighting shouldn't be applied.
Good luck with trying to get the civil service to agree to that....
I think as soon as they find out how much their home energy bill will be they will have a change of heart
Lol, nothing compared with commuting costs.
Ye homeworking is a net saving.
Dunno about that. Space has value.
If you live in a six hundred square foot flat, and 150 square foot of that (e.g. your dining table/area) is now full time devoted to your job, then fully 1/4 of your flat is now free office space for your employer.
If we assume the cost of renting a 1 bed flat in London to be 1500 a month, then £375 of your rent is now a direct saving to your employer and a cost you have to shoulder, e.g. by putting up with having less living space, or by having the added expense of needing to rent a flat that's 150 square foot larger, etc.
It's not just about the heating bill, it's about the intrusion of having your home become your office. Which works for some people, for others it's a nightmare they can't switch off from.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
In Northern Ireland in the Troubles certainly the IRA killed more than the British Army whatever Sinn Fein/IRA apologists may say
Approx 1700 killed by the IRA 200 by other Republicans 900 by Loyalists 300 by the Army
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
In Northern Ireland in the Troubles certainly the IRA killed more than the British Army whatever Sinn Fein/IRA apologists may say
Approx 1700 killed by the IRA 200 by other Republicans 900 by Loyalists 300 by the Army
Well done all, FFS.
The history as I understand it, and happy to be put right, in the days leading up to the British Army going in to keep the peace, kick starting that period of troubles, the Irish we’re talking about going in themselves, Dublin also pushing for the United Nations to go in and keep the peace instead of the Irish or British.
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
It seems appeasement is alive and well in certain dark corners of PB
You need to explain your insult and slur with better detail!
Your argument is a variant on the old Belloc rhyme
"always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse"
Not your usual BELLOCose response I was expecting. Don’t go easy on me just because I am a girly half your age with a horse and piglet obsession.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about. You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
France and Germany* is a case in point. After the defeat of Napoleon, Metternich was keen on preserving France's territorial integrity, to prevent a spiral of revenge reprisals. He had to fight quite hard to prevent the other Great Powers carving up France like Sunday roast. And in the end he was correct. Nobody here (so far as I've seen) is recommending Russia be dismembered, just that its aggressive expansion be checked, by a coalition of countries if that's what's needed.
*technically the Austrian Empire, but that covered part of modern day Germany, and modern day Germany didn't exist at the time, so allow me the license.
Which Napoleon. I think now you mean the first, I read it as the third.
After 1871, for more than forties years the maps in French classrooms teaching what was French, and the Maps in German classrooms teaching what was German were different.
Your argument, as always, the only way to settle such a thing is war, the First World War.
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
It seems appeasement is alive and well in certain dark corners of PB
You need to explain your insult and slur with better detail!
Your argument is a variant on the old Belloc rhyme
"always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse"
Not your usual BELLOCose response I was expecting. Don’t go easy on me just because I am a girly half your age with a horse and piglet obsession.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about. You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
France and Germany* is a case in point. After the defeat of Napoleon, Metternich was keen on preserving France's territorial integrity, to prevent a spiral of revenge reprisals. He had to fight quite hard to prevent the other Great Powers carving up France like Sunday roast. And in the end he was correct. Nobody here (so far as I've seen) is recommending Russia be dismembered, just that its aggressive expansion be checked, by a coalition of countries if that's what's needed.
*technically the Austrian Empire, but that covered part of modern day Germany, and modern day Germany didn't exist at the time, so allow me the license.
Which Napoleon. I think now you mean the first, I read it as the third.
After 1871, for more than forties years the maps in French classrooms teaching what was French, and the Maps in German classrooms teaching what was German were different.
Your argument, as always, the only way to settle such a thing is war, the First World War.
No, there's no "as always" here. You may not extrapolate from one instance to assume I recommend the same course of action in different scenarios. I've spoken about my opposition to the Iraq war on here before; I even went on a protests against it. But if Russia invades a friendly democratic country like Ukraine, we ought to help them defend their territory. For our own sakes as much as anything else. That doesn't mean harming anyone other than invading forces. And perhaps the threat means that they don't go where they aren't welcome in the first place.
We know that Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia. It's a simple argument from democracy to say they must be allowed to live according to their wishes.
By the every brilliant Fintan O'Toole on what happens when you make a mess of an investigation.
Short version: you turn a disaster into a catastrophe. But do read the whole thing.
I listened to the R4 report on it that was broadcast earlier this evening. Having listened to the Colonel who was commanding the troops on the day I am not surprised that the whole thing turned out as it did. He struck me as being completely unsuited for the task he was required to do.
Yep, listened to a bit of it while making dinner. He was too stupid to realise that even if you are unrepentant about 'killing' 14 civilians you should at least try to conceal it as much as possible.
What set me off was the comment that (paraphrasing) going on a Demo was signing your own death warrant and you deserved to shot! I mean,.... WTAF!!!!!!
Given what happened at Ballymurphy shortly beforehand that was probably the view of a significant section of the British Army at the time and a number of NI politicians.
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
I wonder if the same Colonel was in charge?
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Absolutely not.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Given your NI expertise, which party would you say was closest to being the political wing of the Shankhill Butchers?
There were far more killed in Northern Ireland by the IRA in the Troubles than were ever killed by the British army
Really? I mean the British army had the whole first and second world wars to kill people. I don't believe for a second that the IRA has killed more people than the British army.
In Northern Ireland in the Troubles certainly the IRA killed more than the British Army whatever Sinn Fein/IRA apologists may say
Approx 1700 killed by the IRA 200 by other Republicans 900 by Loyalists 300 by the Army
Well done all, FFS.
The history as I understand it, and happy to be put right, in the days leading up to the British Army going in to keep the peace, kick starting that period of troubles, the Irish we’re talking about going in themselves, Dublin also pushing for the United Nations to go in and keep the peace instead of the Irish or British.
Did London really have a choice?
Well, in the end London chose differently, and what we have now is better than what we had before. So, yes.
Germany has a rather 'colourful' military history when it comes to the rest of Europe, including Russia. Don't you think that might explain why they are being extremely wary?
Germany invaded Ukraine in 1918, as well as the more well-known invasion of 1941.
Germany has been extremely non-careful about arming and helping arm *Russia* since the last time the Russians went walkabout in Ukraine.
Selling arms to one side in a war, then claiming that they can't possibly allow someone to arm the other side.
Interestingly, that would put their legal status as a neutral in a war at risk. Ukraine could claim, under international law, that Germany was a co-beligerant with Russia and demand reparations....
I remember years ago, in the 80s, listening to Stefan Terlezki MP. He was a one-term Tory who represented a seat in Cardiff. He was a Ukrainian and came to the UK as a refugee. He remarked that one half of his family had been murdered by the Nazis, and the other half by the Soviets. Wonder what he would be thinking now.
He would be wanting what is the real threat to banana republic Russia - that Putin's plaything bufferzone countries become advanced, stable, successful democracies.
That's what really scares Putin.
I totally support this post.
Putin isn’t seriously eyeing Latvia, and in my opinion Putin never will but the next Russian leader may if the country, rather like the Chinese have done, swings Nationalist post Putin, of which we will be partly responsible for making Putin appear so ineffective.
Putin is in a spot with his plaything buffer zones moving towards successful West leaning democracies. Spinning it up more than that, placing Putin as greedy and hungry as Hitler, hasn’t convinced me yet.
So you are saying that by not giving Putin all the Ukraine he can eat, we are weakening him, which will make his nationalistic successors more nationalistic?
Why don't we feed him someone else, just to be sure?
We’ve been here to 3am Malmsy! You know I believe There’s complicated questions at the heart of this a proxy war does not answer.
Where do you stand on the point I just made, the road to a proxy war and weakened Putin can lead to a more nationalist and aggressive Russia post Putin? We have a short termist and half blind approach to the problem of creating peace we half share with Russia.
Along the same lines the First World War happened because the French had been waiting since 1870 for it.
The Second World War happened because Hitler had been waiting since 1918 to be driving around a defeated Paris.
It seems appeasement is alive and well in certain dark corners of PB
You need to explain your insult and slur with better detail!
Your argument is a variant on the old Belloc rhyme
"always keep-a hold of nurse - for fear of finding something worse"
Not your usual BELLOCose response I was expecting. Don’t go easy on me just because I am a girly half your age with a horse and piglet obsession.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about. You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
France and Germany* is a case in point. After the defeat of Napoleon, Metternich was keen on preserving France's territorial integrity, to prevent a spiral of revenge reprisals. He had to fight quite hard to prevent the other Great Powers carving up France like Sunday roast. And in the end he was correct. Nobody here (so far as I've seen) is recommending Russia be dismembered, just that its aggressive expansion be checked, by a coalition of countries if that's what's needed.
*technically the Austrian Empire, but that covered part of modern day Germany, and modern day Germany didn't exist at the time, so allow me the license.
Which Napoleon. I think now you mean the first, I read it as the third.
After 1871, for more than forties years the maps in French classrooms teaching what was French, and the Maps in German classrooms teaching what was German were different.
Your argument, as always, the only way to settle such a thing is war, the First World War.
No, there's no "as always" here. You may not extrapolate from one instance to assume I recommend the same course of action in different scenarios. I've spoken about my opposition to the Iraq war on here before; I even went on a protests against it. But if Russia invades a friendly democratic country like Ukraine, we ought to help them defend their territory. For our own sakes as much as anything else. That doesn't mean harming anyone other than invading forces. And perhaps the threat means that they don't go where they aren't welcome in the first place.
We know that Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia. It's a simple argument from democracy to say they must be allowed to live according to their wishes.
Yes each one on its own merit.
I supported the Kosovo action. Horrible militia were going in slaughtering everyday people, the Kosovo action saved them and now they are living their lives.
When you said “ That doesn't mean harming anyone other than invading forces.” it made me think our differences over Ukraine might not be fundamental. Just on that simple perspective. I see Ukraine the direct opposite of Kosovo action because many everyday people are going to massively suffer. Arn’t they?
Your perspective is “not harming anyone other than invading forces” my perspective is it will massively harm everyday people as root of my wishing for it to be resolved without all that suffering. Can you see what I mean now?
As well as not considering the suffering of so many everyday people, do you also consider the action desirable because it shows no one are pushovers letting a bully get away with it? I think the opposite happens, after learning from the failures of Putin to hold their satellites together, they come back harder than him, like China are today.
As to the actual bones of contention here, do you think the coming war resolves them at all? I don’t, I think that only comes from the parties involved, east, west and Ukraine, making promises to each other in agreement and trying to live in peace, Do that before the suffering and grievances then.
Do you think the rhetoric from the west actually stands up to scrutiny? What is America now promising now the presidents brain is functioning again “severe consequences”. They are going to put sanctions on Putin. Vlad is going to be devastated by that. Back to his 1000 bedroom 3 swimming pool mansion and cry into his silk pillows. That’s the other bit that gets me - the tough talking ultimately is fake. Merely An impression of standing with democratic Ukraine, whilst Putin seizes Ukraine, installing puppet government, setting up militia, and turning the clock back, and securing his legacy.
Starship Troopers is on Paramount Network (Freeview 32, Sky 150) at 10.50pm.
"MI do the dying, Fleet just do the flying"
Heinlein's writing seemed to have two modes: utter trash or inspired genuis.
The continual references to incest did nothing to enhance it
Yes, but Verhoevan didn't exactly stick to the book. Just made one of the most morally disturbing Sci Fi films. A real hymn to Facism and genocide.
Its not a hymn to facism and genocide. It is a balls to the wall satire of the same.
If you think the film is glorifying anything you are watching it wrong.
Now the book, the book is both dull as dishwater and an absolute paen for fascism from first to last. Completely lauding the idea of "worthy" and "unworthy" citizens.
Thr film however is taking the god damn piss.
If you think the book is a paean for fascism then you need to go back to school and try again.
Starship Troopers the book lauds a society with two levels of citizenry where true citizenship only comes from the sacrifice of blood.
All justified with the "unarguable" moral calculus.
Nope it lauds a society with two levels of citizenry where true citizenship only comes from service. Indeed it doesn't even have to be military service as Heinlein himself made clear. It is like criticising France as being militaristic for having National Service when the vast majority of those who served did so in non military occupations.
The very left wing Science Fiction author Ken MacLeod has written a lot on this and thinks the claims of fascism are simply wrong.
Heinlen didnt do ot on purpose, he accidently did it. But it is still celebrating facist structures.
He only "made clear" the service reqirements in Expanded Universe, 20 years after Starship Troopers was written and aftet 2 decades of extensive criticism.
Comments
But then before the pandemic, the Government wanted GPs to use more virtual consultations. Now they don't.
Society has been changed by the pandemic. Maybe some of those changes have positives. Why these kneejerk reactions?
Might I modestly repost this - https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/13/no-more-to-be-said/ - on this topic, specifically on the murder of civilians at Ballymurphy by the same regiment of Paras 5 months before Bloody Sunday and how long it took them to get any form of justice or apology. As O'Toole says, they got away with it then so little wonder they thought they could get away with it in Derry.
"Well, why is it unfair? You don't work in London, you don't live in London. You visit London less often than a Texan does."
Time to switch of the light
Good night folks
Big week next week
Your opening sentences sum up the whole problem. I think NI needs to realise that it is time to hold that Border Poll and if that time ever comes I hope that reunification happens
Do a job? Get paid the rate.
Choose to do it somewhere twice as expensive?
More fool you.
Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI. It is the Irish Sea border that needs removing not a border poll given to appease Sinn Fein which until recently was the political wing of the IRA!
Frame this discussion! A leftie arguing for lower public sector remuneration, a rightie arguing to keep it higher. We’ve reached the end of ideology.
On the same note, so has William Wragg. I still think he is destined to lose Hazel Grove at the next election, but his recent stand has made it just that little bit more difficult for the Lib Dem challenger, Lisa Smart, who is the latest Lib Dem PPC to be put in place.
I can easily believe he's the bully referred to.
I’ll share my understanding of this history ‘Malmesbury as it is very very different to yours.
The French had been agitating for the war for Forty years, hence French entente with Britain and Russia, boxing the Germans in forcing them to act sooner than later created the war. If they waited longer the powers against them would get stronger taking away any advantage. Even then the German plan needed a quick knock out of France taking Paris so they could turn attention to the eastern front. Despite so many First World War films in trenches the first month or so was very fluid because the German success depended on not getting bogged down in western front, but they did so early on their fate was ultimately sealed. In 1914 the liberal cabinet were trying to decipher what that entente cordial they had agreed with French was as it wasn’t certain we would join in, indeed some objected and left the liberal government. I get this from books on David Lloyd George I had read. His voice was important at this timeGeorge had built reputation by 1914 by opposing the Boer war with argument the Boers were only defending their homes and land against the British. But he agreed with supporting entente cordial with France he said he feared a German Empire across Europe looking across to the British coastline.
Hence more Northerners own a property now than Londoners as a percentage.
I doubt they want to be levelled up so much they can no longer afford to buy a property as most Londoners no longer can do as London is so expensive
https://youtu.be/d7NFfUOJwDE
The ironies are strong.
Don't think I'm necessarily arguing for lower renumeration. Just for equal pay for equal work.
Which will, of course mean lower pay for some. And higher pay for others.
But, good teaching, as an example, in somewhere like Ashington is just as, arguably more, vital than in Hackney.
At the moment, it isn't paid like it is.
Expressing that if possible it would be better if negotiations could lead to deal way out this crisis - sparing everyone war - is not in any shape or form appeasement. You knew what you were doing when using that toxic word appeasement to discredit my argument and me.
You think Putin losing control of his buffer zone is rather hilarious, 100% Putins problem not one for us to tread wisely and carefully? You think either there aren’t difficult questions only easy answers in that region that part of the world? eastern Slav and orthodox Ukraine looking West not East, unnerving Russian security position AND provoking the same sort of sentiments which built the German state. or that there ARE these questions but these can be resolved by a proxy war?
There is a clear difference between us Richard, if you thinking following this war is peace. I’m concerned desire for revenge follows war, leading to more war. Yes I am saying that if the decisions we are making now lead to a more nationalistic, revengeful and threatening Russia than Putin’s, then without doubt we have made the wrong call now for our own future security, and that of Europe and the new democracies we care about.
You don’t think the French defeat to the Germans drove them on to revenge? You don’t think the German defeat to the French drove them on to revenge - theyused the same rail carriage for goodness sake.
If it’s possible after this Ukrainian conflict to have an agreement, a detente, then why not negotiate to that bit now, sparing so many deaths, horrific injuries and trauma.
That’s my clear argument. I’m sticking to it. Call it what you will. I’m cool with cut and thrust of debate, it’s massively educational
- "HYUFD, the Russian Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the British Empire consists of a small curry house in Mumbai. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front."
In my youth I left telephone messages for work colleagues saying to ring back Mr C Lyon and gave them the number of the London Zoo.
Nobody here (so far as I've seen) is recommending Russia be dismembered, just that its aggressive expansion be checked, by a coalition of countries if that's what's needed.
*technically the Austrian Empire, but that covered part of modern day Germany, and modern day Germany didn't exist at the time, so allow me the license.
If you live in a six hundred square foot flat, and 150 square foot of that (e.g. your dining table/area) is now full time devoted to your job, then fully 1/4 of your flat is now free office space for your employer.
If we assume the cost of renting a 1 bed flat in London to be 1500 a month, then £375 of your rent is now a direct saving to your employer and a cost you have to shoulder, e.g. by putting up with having less living space, or by having the added expense of needing to rent a flat that's 150 square foot larger, etc.
It's not just about the heating bill, it's about the intrusion of having your home become your office. Which works for some people, for others it's a nightmare they can't switch off from.
200 by other Republicans
900 by Loyalists
300 by the Army
Well done all, FFS.
Did London really have a choice?
After 1871, for more than forties years the maps in French classrooms teaching what was French, and the Maps in German classrooms teaching what was German were different.
Your argument, as always, the only way to settle such a thing is war, the First World War.
But if Russia invades a friendly democratic country like Ukraine, we ought to help them defend their territory. For our own sakes as much as anything else. That doesn't mean harming anyone other than invading forces. And perhaps the threat means that they don't go where they aren't welcome in the first place.
We know that Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia. It's a simple argument from democracy to say they must be allowed to live according to their wishes.
I supported the Kosovo action. Horrible militia were going in slaughtering everyday people, the Kosovo action saved them and now they are living their lives.
When you said “ That doesn't mean harming anyone other than invading forces.” it made me think our differences over Ukraine might not be fundamental. Just on that simple perspective. I see Ukraine the direct opposite of Kosovo action because many everyday people are going to massively suffer. Arn’t they?
Your perspective is “not harming anyone other than invading forces” my perspective is it will massively harm everyday people as root of my wishing for it to be resolved without all that suffering. Can you see what I mean now?
As well as not considering the suffering of so many everyday people, do you also consider the action desirable because it shows no one are pushovers letting a bully get away with it? I think the opposite happens, after learning from the failures of Putin to hold their satellites together, they come back harder than him, like China are today.
As to the actual bones of contention here, do you think the coming war resolves them at all? I don’t, I think that only comes from the parties involved, east, west and Ukraine, making promises to each other in agreement and trying to live in peace, Do that before the suffering and grievances then.
Do you think the rhetoric from the west actually stands up to scrutiny? What is America now promising now the presidents brain is functioning again “severe consequences”. They are going to put sanctions on Putin. Vlad is going to be devastated by that. Back to his 1000 bedroom 3 swimming pool mansion and cry into his silk pillows. That’s the other bit that gets me - the tough talking ultimately is fake. Merely An impression of standing with democratic Ukraine, whilst Putin seizes Ukraine, installing puppet government, setting up militia, and turning the clock back, and securing his legacy.
He only "made clear" the service reqirements in Expanded Universe, 20 years after Starship Troopers was written and aftet 2 decades of extensive criticism.