Now a 58% betting chance that the PM won’t survive 2022 – politicalbetting.com

DavidL said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

Sigh.

As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.

Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.

I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.

The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.

Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.

I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.

What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.

Ouch!

- “… the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship…”

- “… Boris… light touch… judgment and common sense.“

- “… Nicola's ridiculous rules.”

Not pretty David.

You normally display fine political antennae, but that is a truly dreadful post. You are wrong.

What is tells me is that your party desperately, desperately wants Johnson to remain in post. I cannot express how happy and relieved Labour, SNP and Lib Dem strategists will be. Please try to hang on until at least May. May is going to be glorious.

I am not disputing that he is in trouble. He may not last the day. I just think that it is a lot of nonsense driven by bitterness over Brexit.

JosiasJessop said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

Our PM is a systematic liar. He couldn't lie straight in bed. This matters to a lot of people, though surprisingly not you it seems.

Yes, its a long held weakness of his and it is unfortunate. But it hardly makes him unique. I work on the basis that if you don't want to be a liar don't go into politics. I repeat the example: Sir Tony Blair lied and lied about what evidence he had of weapons of mass destruction, relying upon a document that Alastair Campbell made up and took us into a truly disastrous war. Why should Boris be any more accountable than him?

I was told yesterday that the 45 minute claim was different; that Blair was blameless and could not have known the claim was false.

At least nearly all (all?) Conservative supporters on here have accepted that Boris is a bit of a wrong 'un. It's sad that so many Labour-leaning supporters still try to excuse Blair over that grievous lie.

MrEd said:

DavidL said:

Sigh.

As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.

Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.

I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.

The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.

Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.

I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.

What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.

There has been a lot on here about Starmer should deliberately get himself kicked out of the Commons by calling BJ a liar.

If I was Johnson, I would come back with the line of “yes, I was wrong but it’s not as though I lied to Parliament to take our country into a war that cost hundreds of lives of British troops. By the way, what does the Leader of the Opposition think about Tony Blair getting a knighthood?”

Not a joke by the way. Would dominate the headlines the next day and show SKS to be a hypocrite

JosiasJessop said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

Our PM is a systematic liar. He couldn't lie straight in bed. This matters to a lot of people, though surprisingly not you it seems.

Yes, its a long held weakness of his and it is unfortunate. But it hardly makes him unique. I work on the basis that if you don't want to be a liar don't go into politics. I repeat the example: Sir Tony Blair lied and lied about what evidence he had of weapons of mass destruction, relying upon a document that Alastair Campbell made up and took us into a truly disastrous war. Why should Boris be any more accountable than him?

I was told yesterday that the 45 minute claim was different; that Blair was blameless and could not have known the claim was false.

At least nearly all (all?) Conservative supporters on here have accepted that Boris is a bit of a wrong 'un. It's sad that so many Labour-leaning supporters still try to excuse Blair over that grievous lie.

Pulpstar said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MrEd said:

Dura_Ace said:

MrEd said:

If I was Johnson, I would come back with the line of “yes, I was wrong but it’s not as though I lied to Parliament to take our country into a war that cost hundreds of lives of British troops. By the way, what does the Leader of the Opposition think about Tony Blair getting a knighthood?”

Not a joke by the way. Would dominate the headlines the next day and show SKS to be a hypocrite

The problem with this is that Johnson said he'd vote against Iraq then, and prepare yourself here, it turned out he was lying and did vote for it.

That’s a side issue. Since his comments would be about Blair lying to Parliament and that is what SKS is getting on his high horse about, what BJ did is irrelevant. Plus, it puts SKS of being in tbe awkward spot of having to either defend Blair or cast him aside which causes its own ructions.

SKS could, of course, condemn Blair there and then which would take the wind out of it but I suspect he wouldn’t

Unfortunately if you knew anything about Parliament then you'd realise that isn't possible.

The knighthood was awarded by Brenda and we don't discuss Brenda or her family in Parliament like that.

Whats more the gong is a given - a courtesy offered by the crown to former Prime Ministers regardless of party or reputation. Boris Johnson will also get one, and that isn't a matter for controversy or debate either.

The Queen must be relieved she's unlikely to have to give it.

IanB2 said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

If it’s correct that Parliament has been misled, then I expect the minister concerned to apologise.

I’m yet to see evidence that a socially-distanced drink in the garden, for a group of people who had been working together indoors all day, was against any rules in place on that date.

They know they've done wrong - hence Stratton 'practising' answering tough questions about it in the mock press conferences, the embarrassed laughter when they realised they had no good answers, the panicky instructions to delete all references to parties on their phones, and the rest. And that's before you get to the small matter of our national leader telling a pack of lies to Parliament and the media, the shameful attempt to pass the blame off onto his staff, and the faux outrage when he pretended to have just found out about the party in his garden.

That you can't see it is your problem!

RochdalePioneers said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

Sigh.

As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.

Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.

I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.

The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.

Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.

I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.

What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.

Ouch!

- “… the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship…”

- “… Boris… light touch… judgment and common sense.“

- “… Nicola's ridiculous rules.”

Not pretty David.

You normally display fine political antennae, but that is a truly dreadful post. You are wrong.

What is tells me is that your party desperately, desperately wants Johnson to remain in post. I cannot express how happy and relieved Labour, SNP and Lib Dem strategists will be. Please try to hang on until at least May. May is going to be glorious.

We have a stack of Tory councillors up here to go and get. David is helping the cause a lot.

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

Our PM is a systematic liar. He couldn't lie straight in bed. This matters to a lot of people, though surprisingly not you it seems.

Yes, its a long held weakness of his and it is unfortunate. But it hardly makes him unique. I work on the basis that if you don't want to be a liar don't go into politics. I repeat the example: Sir Tony Blair lied and lied about what evidence he had of weapons of mass destruction, relying upon a document that Alastair Campbell made up and took us into a truly disastrous war. Why should Boris be any more accountable than him?

I was told yesterday that the 45 minute claim was different; that Blair was blameless and could not have known the claim was false.

At least nearly all (all?) Conservative supporters on here have accepted that Boris is a bit of a wrong 'un. It's sad that so many Labour-leaning supporters still try to excuse Blair over that grievous lie.

That's a pretty selective recall.
As I pointed out to you at the time, it's why he's still widely reviled, quite possibly by more Labour than Tory voters.

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/gallery/durdle-door-beach-packed-again-4179481

So what your saying is that if someone else broke the rules it’s ok to break the rules? Try that one in court and see how far you get.

The issue here is those that wrote the rules, broke the rules.

Fishing said:

RochdalePioneers said:

moonshine said:

@Leon
As much as I abhor the casual contempt our leaders have held us in, there is something twisted about the hurricane of noise over some rose in the sunshine, and barely a whisper about the scandal of the source of this virus and the corrupt investigation into it.

As a society we’re flagellating Johnson and Djokovic for a bit of hypocrisy, while saying and doing absolutely nothing about the role of China and our own scientists in causing this catastrophe.

And by the way away from this site, my experience is that most people still do not want to hear that it came from a Chinese lab and are largely unaware of such revelations, assuming it is quasi racist Daily Mail and Trump stuff.

It all makes me quite depressed for the future of Western civilisation.

Its not so much as don't care as can't do anything about it. If Covid was created in a lab instead of because someone had sex with the wrong bat, does it change anything? Even if we got irrefutable proof that the Chinese government knew or worse was complicit, does it change anything? We aren't going to war with China over that and we aren't even going to stop whoring ourselves out with trade as they make everything now.

Control the controllables. I can influence the removal of the UK government. I can't influence where Covid may or may not have come from. So I don't.

We can do lots of things against China, particularly if done in coordination with other Western countries. For example, we could freeze Chinese assets and use them to compensate those that have suffered from this epidemic. Since China is a huge net creditor, their scope for retaliation is limited. Or we could take steps towards recognising Taiwan.

MrEd said:

Dura_Ace said:

MrEd said:

If I was Johnson, I would come back with the line of “yes, I was wrong but it’s not as though I lied to Parliament to take our country into a war that cost hundreds of lives of British troops. By the way, what does the Leader of the Opposition think about Tony Blair getting a knighthood?”

Not a joke by the way. Would dominate the headlines the next day and show SKS to be a hypocrite

The problem with this is that Johnson said he'd vote against Iraq then, and prepare yourself here, it turned out he was lying and did vote for it.

That’s a side issue. Since his comments would be about Blair lying to Parliament and that is what SKS is getting on his high horse about, what BJ did is irrelevant. Plus, it puts SKS of being in tbe awkward spot of having to either defend Blair or cast him aside which causes its own ructions.

SKS could, of course, condemn Blair there and then which would take the wind out of it but I suspect he wouldn’t

Carnyx said:

RochdalePioneers said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

Sigh.

As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.

Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.

I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.

The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.

Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.

I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.

What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.

Ouch!

- “… the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship…”

- “… Boris… light touch… judgment and common sense.“

- “… Nicola's ridiculous rules.”

Not pretty David.

You normally display fine political antennae, but that is a truly dreadful post. You are wrong.

What is tells me is that your party desperately, desperately wants Johnson to remain in post. I cannot express how happy and relieved Labour, SNP and Lib Dem strategists will be. Please try to hang on until at least May. May is going to be glorious.

We have a stack of Tory councillors up here to go and get. David is helping the cause a lot.

Oh dear, not a good morning for David. I remember when he was rightly speaking favourably of Ms Sturgeon's more measured and steadier approach to covid regulations than Mr Johnson's chaotic supermarket-trolley-with-a-stuck castor approach.

DavidL said:

Sigh.

As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.

Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.

I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.

The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.

Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.

I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.

What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.

rcs1000 said:

Fishing said:

RochdalePioneers said:

moonshine said:

@Leon
As much as I abhor the casual contempt our leaders have held us in, there is something twisted about the hurricane of noise over some rose in the sunshine, and barely a whisper about the scandal of the source of this virus and the corrupt investigation into it.

As a society we’re flagellating Johnson and Djokovic for a bit of hypocrisy, while saying and doing absolutely nothing about the role of China and our own scientists in causing this catastrophe.

And by the way away from this site, my experience is that most people still do not want to hear that it came from a Chinese lab and are largely unaware of such revelations, assuming it is quasi racist Daily Mail and Trump stuff.

It all makes me quite depressed for the future of Western civilisation.

Its not so much as don't care as can't do anything about it. If Covid was created in a lab instead of because someone had sex with the wrong bat, does it change anything? Even if we got irrefutable proof that the Chinese government knew or worse was complicit, does it change anything? We aren't going to war with China over that and we aren't even going to stop whoring ourselves out with trade as they make everything now.

Control the controllables. I can influence the removal of the UK government. I can't influence where Covid may or may not have come from. So I don't.

We can do lots of things against China, particularly if done in coordination with other Western countries. For example, we could freeze Chinese assets and use them to compensate those that have suffered from this epidemic. Since China is a huge net creditor, their scope for retaliation is limited. Or we could take steps towards recognising Taiwan.

We can't freeze Chinese assets, because we (as in most of the West) depend on a constant flow of Chinese money to pay our deficits.

If we lived within our means, then we'd be in a lot stronger position.

The problem is that living within our means requires us to run a massively higher household savings rate, which would not be pretty.

Scott_xP said:

54 letters?

Playbook scoop: Anne Marie Morris has had the Tory whip removed

https://politi.co/3svJcDk https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1481170330345369601/photo/1

Pro_Rata said:

If we wanted and found acceptable workplace outdoor social gatherings for the deserving, a few intensive care nurses sitting on that grassy knoll in the infirmary grounds with a BYOB after an exhausting shift would have been nice.

Why keep the largesse for the wonks in your own, secluded, private, office garden? Why not party on the street in front behind the gates in full view? Hell, you could keep the doors to the garden open, ventilate the space,Ake it freely available to staffers for those socially distanced walks in pairs - using that garden as a park stroke water cooler was entirely acceptable. Using it as a makeshift pub for large scale events, outdoors or not, using the seclusion as cover, was not.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

rcs1000 said:

Fishing said:

RochdalePioneers said:

moonshine said:

@Leon
As much as I abhor the casual contempt our leaders have held us in, there is something twisted about the hurricane of noise over some rose in the sunshine, and barely a whisper about the scandal of the source of this virus and the corrupt investigation into it.

As a society we’re flagellating Johnson and Djokovic for a bit of hypocrisy, while saying and doing absolutely nothing about the role of China and our own scientists in causing this catastrophe.

And by the way away from this site, my experience is that most people still do not want to hear that it came from a Chinese lab and are largely unaware of such revelations, assuming it is quasi racist Daily Mail and Trump stuff.

It all makes me quite depressed for the future of Western civilisation.

Its not so much as don't care as can't do anything about it. If Covid was created in a lab instead of because someone had sex with the wrong bat, does it change anything? Even if we got irrefutable proof that the Chinese government knew or worse was complicit, does it change anything? We aren't going to war with China over that and we aren't even going to stop whoring ourselves out with trade as they make everything now.

Control the controllables. I can influence the removal of the UK government. I can't influence where Covid may or may not have come from. So I don't.

We can do lots of things against China, particularly if done in coordination with other Western countries. For example, we could freeze Chinese assets and use them to compensate those that have suffered from this epidemic. Since China is a huge net creditor, their scope for retaliation is limited. Or we could take steps towards recognising Taiwan.

We can't freeze Chinese assets, because we (as in most of the West) depend on a constant flow of Chinese money to pay our deficits.

If we lived within our means, then we'd be in a lot stronger position.

The problem is that living within our means requires us to run a massively higher household savings rate, which would not be pretty.

Yes on the first point but your university economics tutor seems to have been obsessed by household savings rates.

IanB2 said:

Stocky said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

It has cut through massively. Johnson is finished in my opinion. I'm hoping the Tory MPs see this - they must surely? The worry for the CP in turning to his likely replacement - Sunak? - is will allegations surface about him? How determined in Cummings to wreck the CP?

I think all the Tories know it - the problem they have is that Plan A - letting BJ soak up the bad news from the tax rises, fuel price crisis and bad election results, and dumping him in May for an 'orderly' election when hopefully the virus has receded - was, until a day or two ago, their best plan.

eek said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.

On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/gallery/durdle-door-beach-packed-again-4179481

So what your saying is that if someone else broke the rules it’s ok to break the rules? Try that one in court and see how far you get.

The issue here is those that wrote the rules, broke the rules.

If proved no work was discussed in the garden but they were at No 10 to do essential work which was allowed

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/gallery/durdle-door-beach-packed-again-4179481

IshmaelZ said:

DavidL said:

IshmaelZ said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

Our PM is a systematic liar. He couldn't lie straight in bed. This matters to a lot of people, though surprisingly not you it seems.

Yes, its a long held weakness of his and it is unfortunate. But it hardly makes him unique. I work on the basis that if you don't want to be a liar don't go into politics. I repeat the example: Sir Tony Blair lied and lied about what evidence he had of weapons of mass destruction, relying upon a document that Alastair Campbell made up and took us into a truly disastrous war. Why should Boris be any more accountable than him?

Curious argument for a lawyer to make, never heard a speeding motorist defended in court because there are rapists and murderers out there

Blair was a liar or at least a self-deluding fantasist, sure, but I can't think of any notable lies from other PMs from Thatcher onwards. And Blair has been jumped on to the extent of 1m no knighthood signatures, so not much of an example of afree pass.

But of course there is no speeding in England, you all being so law abiding and all.

Not a boast, just a fact. Too law abiding one could arguably say. The point is that "Yebbut othe people drive even faster than I do" is not recognised.

RochdalePioneers said:

StuartDickson said:

- “One thing’s for sure – there is more to come.”

This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?

I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!

Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

StuartDickson said:

- “One thing’s for sure – there is more to come.”

This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?

I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!

Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.

Not Cummings imo. Cummings wrote that the wrong party was being investigated and that press and Sue Grey should instead look at 20th May. Later, someone, presumably not Cummings, leaked the BYOB invitation for that date. Sure, Cummings is openly contemptuous of Boris (remember, Cummings was Gove's man, not Boris's) but it looks like the really damaging material is coming from elsewhere.

rcs1000 said:

eek said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.

On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.

The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.

Will he be deposed?

My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.

StuartDickson said:

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/gallery/durdle-door-beach-packed-again-4179481

So what your saying is that if someone else broke the rules it’s ok to break the rules? Try that one in court and see how far you get.

The issue here is those that wrote the rules, broke the rules.

If proved no work was discussed in the garden but they were at No 10 to do essential work which was allowed

If it is essential work you don't invite 100 people on a it will be nice if you come basis and have 30 turn up. No, you just don't.

Yes, the 100 invitees is staring everyone in the face. A hundred?! WTF

That 70 refused the invite is also stunning. 70% of recipients immediately saw the idiocy.

The instruction to delete the digital evidence trail is the killer. Surely criminal in itself.

rcs1000 said:

eek said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.

On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.

The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.

Will he be deposed?

My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.

It is NOT TRIVIAL.

The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.

Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.

The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.

That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.

Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/gallery/durdle-door-beach-packed-again-4179481

So what your saying is that if someone else broke the rules it’s ok to break the rules? Try that one in court and see how far you get.

The issue here is those that wrote the rules, broke the rules.

If proved no work was discussed in the garden but they were at No 10 to do essential work which was allowed

eek said:

rcs1000 said:

eek said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.

On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.

The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.

Will he be deposed?

My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.

Yep - I said on Monday that the obvious time that this would kill him has past and I still think that's the case.

My only reason for being unsure is whether Boris once it's 100% clear that he lied to Parliament is suspended by Parliament. And I don't know how long that suspension would be and whether it would be enough to trigger a recall petition.

As a suspect any suspension less than a recall petition would just be taken on the chin by a party that while it doesn't want Boris, equally doesn't see any other option that keeps them in power come 2023/4.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

StuartDickson said:

- “One thing’s for sure – there is more to come.”

This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?

I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!

Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.

Not Cummings imo. Cummings wrote that the wrong party was being investigated and that press and Sue Grey should instead look at 20th May. Later, someone, presumably not Cummings, leaked the BYOB invitation for that date. Sure, Cummings is openly contemptuous of Boris (remember, Cummings was Gove's man, not Boris's) but it looks like the really damaging material is coming from elsewhere.

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I am not defending the lying nor am I suggesting that he should not be held to account for it. I am saying it really didn't need to be like this. But it is and I do not expect him to survive now. The "disgusted" to find that a party had taken place in his own garden which he very probably attended was the final straw for him. There is no obvious way back from that.

But you *are* defending the lying. Re-read your earlier lengthy rants where you try and diminish the issue and then blame Sturgeon and Blair.

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

Foxy said:

@DavidL and @Sandpit being rather tin eared about this.

The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.

Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.

"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I am not defending the lying nor am I suggesting that he should not be held to account for it. I am saying it really didn't need to be like this. But it is and I do not expect him to survive now. The "disgusted" to find that a party had taken place in his own garden which he very probably attended was the final straw for him. There is no obvious way back from that.

But you *are* defending the lying. Re-read your earlier lengthy rants where you try and diminish the issue and then blame Sturgeon and Blair.