The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
Remember what TSE says Boris wants to be seen as a long term PM (which he doesn't need to be because Brexit and Covid makes his story far more interesting than anyone since Blair (and probably Thatcher).
So Boris will want to see August to beat May's figures and supposedly wants to get to at least 2025 to beat Cameron. Now the latter requires winning a second election (can't see that happening) but August 2022 is in sight and all he has to do is get to June...
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
- “What should be really worrying is the increasing number of Tory MPs ready to make their views known.”
Kudos to Douglas Ross MSP MP and football linesman for being the very first to break ranks yesterday. The most effective day in his political career by a country mile.
The leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party was just as assured, persuasive and coherent as his predecessor Ruth Davidson, who actually pipped him by a couple of hours (but she’s not an MP).
It was highly risky for Ross. Davidson cannot be sacked, but Ross can. If Johnson survives he’s history. If he goes, he’ll be a hero.
The biggest risk though is not if Johnson goes, but when. If he’s still there in May the SCons are looking down the barrel of a thrashing in the Single Transferable Vote council elections in May. There is no FPTP incentive for Unionist-inclined SLab and SLD voters to lend their votes to the SCons, and every incentive to give The Boris Party the solid kicking they so richly deserve, with support for Brexit now sub 20% north of the border.
So-what southern Tories might respond, but I’ll tell you what: being the first-placed Unionist party is critically important. Without those SLab and especially SLD tactical votes, all 6 SCon MPs are history. If Scottish Labour manage to build a narrative that only they can beat the SNP - which is actually true, in contrast to SCon claims - then the Tories will be back down to their core vote of 15% in no time.
Douglas Ross doesn’t care. He’s not standing for Westminster again when the next UK GE is called, and his Holyrood seat is safe. Two jobs is probably more fun than three jobs anyway.
Point of order:
1. How can Ross be sacked by Johnson? His authority as Scottish leader is derived by election not appointment. I suppose that, theoretically, he could have the whip withdrawn in the Commons, but... 2. This conflicts with your assertion that Ross "doesn't care" about what happens at Westminster, given that he's leaving at the next election, which is evidently true
The man isn't taking any risk at all in sticking the boot into a Prime Minister who's radioactive waste in Scotland. Indeed, why the SCons don't go the whole hog, divorce the Westminster party and go back to being the Unionists is quite beyond me.
Mr Ross is subordinate to Mr Johnson in the Conservative Party. So he can be sacked whenever. Though that would in itself cause a huge crisis.
The problem with splitting off from the CPGB (Johnsonist-ReesMoggist) is that it cuts the MPs for Scottish constituencies off from much hope of becoming prime minister. I know Bonar Law and Alec Douglas Home succeeded before the merger but in those days the Union was much tighter and today a separate Scottish Unionist Party would be regarded as a bunch of remainers by the E&W rump.
Plus they'd need a new name - in the name SCUP, Unionist was and for many years remained in the UIster sense. Some of us remember the years when the UP were very much part of the Protestant nativist supremacy this side of the water. Conservative would not do, as it would tie them to Mr Johnson and his successors. Wonder what they would pick?
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.
It is NOT TRIVIAL.
The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.
Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.
The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.
That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.
Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
If it is Cummings behind the leaks then presumably Johnson must know this. Which means he should certainly have known that lying about it in December wouldn't work. Which means that his political judgment is unbelievably shit. This should be worrying Conservative MPs who still might be hoping he's a winner.
Johnson doesn't do planning or forward thinking; the consideration is always "what's the best thing I can say right now to get me off this current hook?" His self-belief is such that he simply assumes that he'll be able to come up with an equally effective answer when he finds himself on the next hook.
As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.
Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.
I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.
The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.
Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.
I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.
What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.
Ouch!
- “… the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship…”
- “… Boris… light touch… judgment and common sense.“
- “… Nicola's ridiculous rules.”
Not pretty David.
You normally display fine political antennae, but that is a truly dreadful post. You are wrong.
What is tells me is that your party desperately, desperately wants Johnson to remain in post. I cannot express how happy and relieved Labour, SNP and Lib Dem strategists will be. Please try to hang on until at least May. May is going to be glorious.
We have a stack of Tory councillors up here to go and get. David is helping the cause a lot.
Oh dear, not a good morning for David. I remember when he was rightly speaking favourably of Ms Sturgeon's more measured and steadier approach to covid regulations than Mr Johnson's chaotic supermarket-trolley-with-a-stuck castor approach.
I don't. I always thought that Nicola was heavy handed and that her determination to be just that little bit different from England was very damaging in that it confused the messaging. In fairness, she seems to have backed off in the vive la difference yesterday as even she is seeing it as counterproductive now.
Lightning up on regulation is another big and far from clear cut call that Boris has got right. Not that that is going to do him any good.
Plan B measures have a sunset clause of 26 January. Surely they will not be extended? All it needs is a journo finding a MP working away from home when they could have been working from home and here we go again.
I think on current trends the end of regulatory control is within sight. And Boris has led the way on this.
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
54 MPs
Who so far seem to have misplaced their pens.
You have no way of knowing that Brady has not had 53 letters
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I am not defending the lying nor am I suggesting that he should not be held to account for it. I am saying it really didn't need to be like this. But it is and I do not expect him to survive now. The "disgusted" to find that a party had taken place in his own garden which he very probably attended was the final straw for him. There is no obvious way back from that.
But you *are* defending the lying. Re-read your earlier lengthy rants where you try and diminish the issue and then blame Sturgeon and Blair.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I am not defending the lying nor am I suggesting that he should not be held to account for it. I am saying it really didn't need to be like this. But it is and I do not expect him to survive now. The "disgusted" to find that a party had taken place in his own garden which he very probably attended was the final straw for him. There is no obvious way back from that.
But you *are* defending the lying. Re-read your earlier lengthy rants where you try and diminish the issue and then blame Sturgeon and Blair.
From my first post this morning:
"What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation."
I repeat it. I am not defending the lying, nor suggesting that he should not be held to account about it. I am simply pointing out that the lies were about something that could have been dealt with in the way that @rcs1000 suggested without significant damage and many other political leaders have survived much more serious lies in the past.
I have also acknowledged, to @Foxy, that this is a character flaw in him which he has manifested in the past. Again, I do not accept that he is particularly unusual about this but it is regrettable. I think doubling down on this and stating he was "disgusted" was probably the fatal step on this path.
He can't help himself. He is fundamentally dishonest to the core. Politicians often dissemble in the same way business leaders sometimes do, but to keep telling downright lies is another level. Johnson is unfit for office. He should be forced to resign.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
He is truly cornered I think.
And has trashed his brand, who wants to pay for Peppas Pig speeches or pay non-remainder prices for the memoirs?
Carrie'll be off.
- “Carrie'll be off.”
Easy come, easy go.
Boris is aiming for at least a dozen offspring. He’ll need to work through another couple of mares before he’s finished.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.
It is NOT TRIVIAL.
The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.
Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.
The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.
That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.
Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts
Thinking about the option where Downing Street shop themselves to the police to try and deflect. There is a major problem with them doing that - the front page lead on the Independent.
Perverting the Course of Justice - instructing staff to delete all messages that relate to the illegal parties - is a bigger crime than the illegal parties.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
As a suspect any suspension less than a recall petition would just be taken on the chin by a party that while it doesn't want Boris, equally doesn't see any other option that keeps them in power come 2023/4.
When you look at the other candidates, Boris may be the best choice.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
Remember what TSE says Boris wants to be seen as a long term PM (which he doesn't need to be because Brexit and Covid makes his story far more interesting than anyone since Blair (and probably Thatcher).
So Boris will want to see August to beat May's figures and supposedly wants to get to at least 2025 to beat Cameron. Now the latter requires winning a second election (can't see that happening) but August 2022 is in sight and all he has to do is get to June...
Indeed in his mind. Personally, I am unimpressed by his Brexit and Covid "story" but quite possibly Johnson continues to see himself as the Churchill of the 21st century.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
He is truly cornered I think.
And has trashed his brand, who wants to pay for Peppas Pig speeches or pay non-remainder prices for the memoirs?
Carrie'll be off.
- “Carrie'll be off.”
Easy come, easy go.
Boris is aiming for at least a dozen offspring. He’ll need to work through another couple of mares before he’s finished.
The Boris family tree will be quite something by 2100.
I think Boris will want to outlast Theresa May, so he may try and get a choreographed exit that takes him just beyond the end of August. Resigns in May after a drubbing at the locals then stays on as caretaker while the leadership election figures out who's next with an election date set to early September so the new leader is in place for the conference.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
Remember what TSE says Boris wants to be seen as a long term PM (which he doesn't need to be because Brexit and Covid makes his story far more interesting than anyone since Blair (and probably Thatcher).
So Boris will want to see August to beat May's figures and supposedly wants to get to at least 2025 to beat Cameron. Now the latter requires winning a second election (can't see that happening) but August 2022 is in sight and all he has to do is get to June...
Boris could pre-announce his retirement with a contest to run to the autumn conference season, as May did, though it backfired for Cameron. That would see him outlast Theresa May, and probably Brexit and the Covid restrictions. However, imo if Boris can get to the summer, we enter a feel-good zone with the Platinum jubilee, Emma at Wimbledon, Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, culminating in December with England winning the World Cup, Lewis winning the F1 championship, and Christmas.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
He is truly cornered I think.
And has trashed his brand, who wants to pay for Peppas Pig speeches or pay non-remainder prices for the memoirs?
Carrie'll be off.
I have no doubt that, sadly, many people will pay ridiculous amounts to schmooze with Johnson and listen to his rambling semi-comedic speeches in the years to come.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
You denied a few weeks ago that the country is run like the Oxford Union. This is exactly how the Oxford Union is run. No interest in how the place is administered, it’s all about making sure your mates, or those you like, get the jobs. It should be about the right person for the country, not whether or not Cummings is “rewarded” and your favoured slate gets in.
- “What should be really worrying is the increasing number of Tory MPs ready to make their views known.”
Kudos to Douglas Ross MSP MP and football linesman for being the very first to break ranks yesterday. The most effective day in his political career by a country mile.
The leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party was just as assured, persuasive and coherent as his predecessor Ruth Davidson, who actually pipped him by a couple of hours (but she’s not an MP).
It was highly risky for Ross. Davidson cannot be sacked, but Ross can. If Johnson survives he’s history. If he goes, he’ll be a hero.
The biggest risk though is not if Johnson goes, but when. If he’s still there in May the SCons are looking down the barrel of a thrashing in the Single Transferable Vote council elections in May. There is no FPTP incentive for Unionist-inclined SLab and SLD voters to lend their votes to the SCons, and every incentive to give The Boris Party the solid kicking they so richly deserve, with support for Brexit now sub 20% north of the border.
So-what southern Tories might respond, but I’ll tell you what: being the first-placed Unionist party is critically important. Without those SLab and especially SLD tactical votes, all 6 SCon MPs are history. If Scottish Labour manage to build a narrative that only they can beat the SNP - which is actually true, in contrast to SCon claims - then the Tories will be back down to their core vote of 15% in no time.
Douglas Ross doesn’t care. He’s not standing for Westminster again when the next UK GE is called, and his Holyrood seat is safe. Two jobs is probably more fun than three jobs anyway.
Yes and him and all Scottish Tories are in hiding , even the cleaner was not available for GMS this morning.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Cummings was Gove's consiglieri so presumably he would prefer Gove to succeed Boris. It is not likely that Sunak or Truss would invite Cummings back to Number 10.
And if Sunak was living/working in Downing Street at the time...
Even if he didn't know about the parties, nobody will believe him.
Simplest answer is that Dom doesn't have a dog in this race, he just wants to destroy Boris and any other harm is just collateral damage.
The Jeffrey Archer/Michael Dobbs answer is to leave Gove as the last man standing...
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
He is truly cornered I think.
And has trashed his brand, who wants to pay for Peppas Pig speeches or pay non-remainder prices for the memoirs?
Carrie'll be off.
I have no doubt that, sadly, many people will pay ridiculous amounts to schmooze with Johnson and listen to his rambling semi-comedic speeches in the years to come.
To be fair Johnson might actually be quite good at that. Our issue is with his performance as prime minister.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Which is why he'll be given a choice after the May elections, jump on an agreed schedule or be deposed tomorrow.
He's made so many internal enemies in the party that no one will stick up for him.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
You denied a few weeks ago that the country is run like the Oxford Union. This is exactly how the Oxford Union is run. No interest in how the place is administered, it’s all about making sure your mates, or those you like, get the jobs. It should be about the right person for the country, not whether or not Cummings is “rewarded” and your favoured slate gets in.
Was it not you who recalled how undergrads were paying their subs to the Union just to vote for them? Like buying property in an English borough and leaning on your tenant to vote your way. Those English political history 1700-1850 tutorials sure came in handy for some (not you I hasten to add).
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
I can't imagine it would be possible to organise evening drinks in the back garden without Johnson's nod.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Well, the person in charge of overseeing breaches of the ministerial code, is of course the PM himself.
Can anyone point to *exactly* when Parliament may have been misled by the PM?
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
Tory MP: “Yesterday Rishi and Liz were contacting MPs asking to meet about “the current situation””. Not so much blood in the water, as Robert Shaw’s chum in the water. Boris is going to need a bigger boat. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1481191461513220098
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Well, the person in charge of overseeing breaches of the ministerial code, is of course the PM himself.
Can anyone point to *exactly* when Parliament may have been misled by the PM?
Shocked and disgusted to learn about parties stuff
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Which is why he'll be given a choice after the May elections, jump on an agreed schedule or be deposed tomorrow.
He's made so many internal enemies in the party that no one will stick up for him.
By whom? There is no obvious powerful alternative grouping or weighty elder statesmen able to deliver that message. Is Sunak going to deliver that message? I doubt it.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
He is truly cornered I think.
And has trashed his brand, who wants to pay for Peppas Pig speeches or pay non-remainder prices for the memoirs?
Carrie'll be off.
- “Carrie'll be off.”
Easy come, easy go.
Boris is aiming for at least a dozen offspring. He’ll need to work through another couple of mares before he’s finished.
The Boris family tree will be quite something by 2100.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Cummings was Gove's consiglieri so presumably he would prefer Gove to succeed Boris. It is not likely that Sunak or Truss would invite Cummings back to Number 10.
And if Sunak was living/working in Downing Street at the time...
Even if he didn't know about the parties, nobody will believe him.
Simplest answer is that Dom doesn't have a dog in this race, he just wants to destroy Boris and any other harm is just collateral damage.
The Jeffrey Archer/Michael Dobbs answer is to leave Gove as the last man standing...
It's not just Boris, Cummings has a beef with the CP - he's not a conservative. He thinks almost all politicians are of sub-standard intelligence and the country deserves better. I'm not sure how linked he is with Gove these days.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Which is why he'll be given a choice after the May elections, jump on an agreed schedule or be deposed tomorrow.
He's made so many internal enemies in the party that no one will stick up for him.
This seems to be designed to push the schedule forward to next week rather than the elections in May. Otherwise why would Boris be being placed in a position where the half truths provided in December are unravelling this week into outright lies.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Not a game, HYUFD. It is about the governance of the UK. You are prepared to let Starmer in and increase the odds on an indyref, just to clarify Dom's Messiah/very naughty boy status?
If Labour want to allow an indyref2 and devomax that is their problem
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
My gut also. I suspect however a substantial possibility of Johnson throwing in the towel. Need to get into Johnson's brain to work out the probability of that happening. Not a place I particularly want to go. Johnson is someone who has no concept of right and wrong; truth and falsehood. All his life he's been rewarded for his mendacity. Will he be shocked by the blowback or will he see it as yet another of his many scrapes that can be got out of so easily.?
Remember what TSE says Boris wants to be seen as a long term PM (which he doesn't need to be because Brexit and Covid makes his story far more interesting than anyone since Blair (and probably Thatcher).
So Boris will want to see August to beat May's figures and supposedly wants to get to at least 2025 to beat Cameron. Now the latter requires winning a second election (can't see that happening) but August 2022 is in sight and all he has to do is get to June...
Boris could pre-announce his retirement with a contest to run to the autumn conference season, as May did, though it backfired for Cameron. That would see him outlast Theresa May, and probably Brexit and the Covid restrictions. However, imo if Boris can get to the summer, we enter a feel-good zone with the Platinum jubilee, Emma at Wimbledon, Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, culminating in December with England winning the World Cup, Lewis winning the F1 championship, and Christmas.
That does assume they happen at all, but he would be no worse off if they didn't.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
It has cut through massively. Johnson is finished in my opinion. I'm hoping the Tory MPs see this - they must surely? The worry for the CP in turning to his likely replacement - Sunak? - is will allegations surface about him? How determined in Cummings to wreck the CP?
I think all the Tories know it - the problem they have is that Plan A - letting BJ soak up the bad news from the tax rises, fuel price crisis and bad election results, and dumping him in May for an 'orderly' election when hopefully the virus has receded - was, until a day or two ago, their best plan.
The Tories have a majority of 80, the election does not need to be until 2024
You underestimate the cumulative toxic effect of his continuing as Tory leader and PM for another five months. cf. John Major. If you wait until May, your party might be damaged and discredited beyond repair for the foreseeable?
As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.
Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.
I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.
The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.
Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.
I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.
What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.
"Largely made up stories"?
I hope you are not referring to what I wrote in my header.
I have not made up anything about my daughter's despair at the damage done to her business. Nor about my in-laws grief at the loss of their son and the family having to worry about how to comfort them without the additional worry of complying with rules which others were gaily ignoring.
While you were busy enjoying lovely country walks, we also had the very real worry of trying to find somewhere to live while our house was being rebuilt (work which came to a halt at the start of lockdown) at a time when this was very difficult and there were some snitching on those who were thought to have fled from the cities. I wrote about this on here at the time.
I hope we are all grownup enough to forgive mistakes and to understand that no-one is perfect. But we are also entitled to expect those in charge to make some attempt to comply with the commands they were giving the rest of us on a daily basis and not to take the piss quite as blatantly as they have been.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 5m Tory MP: “Yesterday Rishi and Liz were contacting MPs asking to meet about “the current situation””. Not so much blood in the water, as Robert Shaw’s chum in the water. Boris is going to need a bigger boat.
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
Indeed, but the SNP are in favour of PR at Westminster. It's called strange things, 'principle' and 'good of the country'.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
You denied a few weeks ago that the country is run like the Oxford Union. This is exactly how the Oxford Union is run. No interest in how the place is administered, it’s all about making sure your mates, or those you like, get the jobs. It should be about the right person for the country, not whether or not Cummings is “rewarded” and your favoured slate gets in.
Was it not you who recalled how undergrads were paying their subs to the Union just to vote for them? Like buying property in an English borough and leaning on your tenant to vote your way. Those English political history 1700-1850 tutorials sure came in handy for some (not you I hasten to add).
A candidate paid off what I owed after I cancelled my standing order so I could vote for him. Pretty sure if I’d dobbed him in he would have been in trouble but I’m not that type…lovely building but the institution (just the Union, not the University!) needs to be abolished.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 5m Tory MP: “Yesterday Rishi and Liz were contacting MPs asking to meet about “the current situation””. Not so much blood in the water, as Robert Shaw’s chum in the water. Boris is going to need a bigger boat.
Those metaphorical "phone lines" are being laid again.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
It has cut through massively. Johnson is finished in my opinion. I'm hoping the Tory MPs see this - they must surely? The worry for the CP in turning to his likely replacement - Sunak? - is will allegations surface about him? How determined in Cummings to wreck the CP?
I think all the Tories know it - the problem they have is that Plan A - letting BJ soak up the bad news from the tax rises, fuel price crisis and bad election results, and dumping him in May for an 'orderly' election when hopefully the virus has receded - was, until a day or two ago, their best plan.
The Tories have a majority of 80, the election does not need to be until 2024
You underestimate the cumulative toxic effect of his continuing as Tory leader and PM for another five months. cf. John Major. If you wait until May, your party might be damaged and discredited beyond repair for the foreseeable?
No alternative leader would have done any better than Major in 1997 and the latest polls have the Tories only 3 to 5% behind, even after earlier garden party stories. Major's Tories were over 20% behind by 1995
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
Perhaps Boris is hoping for a 30 day suspension? It would save him from doing 4 or 5 PMQs..
I think it counts as contempt for Parliament. Traditionally it's a resigning matter for Ministers, but it's subject to a vote and they can try to ride it out. The Government survived even a successful contempt motion in 2018 which I must admit I'd forgotten about:
As @Cyclefree described in the previous header the spring of 2020 was indeed glorious. My wife and I made good use of that weather to go on extensive walks near our home in the glorious countryside. We both got a bit fitter and a bit leaner as a result. It seemed a sensible precaution in case the virus came knocking.
Was it a breach of Nicola's ridiculous rules? At times, probably. But we were walking country roads and paths, there were few others there, when we came across others we, at that time, made a point of walking on the other side. There was no risk and an upside in terms of our health.
I really don't believe that the vast majority of us did any different. Despite Nicola's ridiculous rules most, virtually all, people I know took decisions based upon their own circumstances and their assessment of the risks. Some idiots who took ridiculous risks, such as large house parties, were prosecuted but the courts (which were mainly shut) were not exactly clogged up with wrongdoers.
The rules in both England and Scotland allowed "essential workers" to go out to work. That definition was very broad. Advocates were apparently essential workers. I didn't use this much because it didn't seem safe to do so in a world before vaccines but I occasionally went to Edinburgh to access text books etc.
Essential workers included Downing Street staff. They were working hard for the good of the country (whatever they actually achieved) in close proximity indoors for hours every day. The idea that they had a significantly greater risk because they had a drink together in the garden afterwards is as absurd as the idea my wife and I were being reckless when our walks took us more than 2 miles from our house.
I simply do not buy into this hypocrisy nonsense, the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship caused by compliance with very largely unenforced regulations. This hysteria is ridiculous. And Boris, unlike Nicola, was very clear from the start that he wanted a light touch and to rely as much as possible on advice, judgment and common sense.
What is not acceptable is that he allowed these events to go on, even attended them, and then lied about both his knowledge and participation. Of course one of our former PMs got away with making up evidence and using it to take our country to war. This is trivial by comparison but it is annoying, especially in the way it has been handled.
Ouch!
- “… the sanctimonious whining, the largely made up stories of individual hardship…”
- “… Boris… light touch… judgment and common sense.“
- “… Nicola's ridiculous rules.”
Not pretty David.
You normally display fine political antennae, but that is a truly dreadful post. You are wrong.
What is tells me is that your party desperately, desperately wants Johnson to remain in post. I cannot express how happy and relieved Labour, SNP and Lib Dem strategists will be. Please try to hang on until at least May. May is going to be glorious.
We have a stack of Tory councillors up here to go and get. David is helping the cause a lot.
Oh dear, not a good morning for David. I remember when he was rightly speaking favourably of Ms Sturgeon's more measured and steadier approach to covid regulations than Mr Johnson's chaotic supermarket-trolley-with-a-stuck castor approach.
I don't. I always thought that Nicola was heavy handed and that her determination to be just that little bit different from England was very damaging in that it confused the messaging. In fairness, she seems to have backed off in the vive la difference yesterday as even she is seeing it as counterproductive now.
Lightning up on regulation is another big and far from clear cut call that Boris has got right. Not that that is going to do him any good.
Plan B measures have a sunset clause of 26 January. Surely they will not be extended? All it needs is a journo finding a MP working away from home when they could have been working from home and here we go again.
I think on current trends the end of regulatory control is within sight. And Boris has led the way on this.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Not a game, HYUFD. It is about the governance of the UK. You are prepared to let Starmer in and increase the odds on an indyref, just to clarify Dom's Messiah/very naughty boy status?
If Labour want to allow an indyref2 and devomax that is their problem
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 5m Tory MP: “Yesterday Rishi and Liz were contacting MPs asking to meet about “the current situation””. Not so much blood in the water, as Robert Shaw’s chum in the water. Boris is going to need a bigger boat.
Those metaphorical "phone lines" are being laid again.
To the mattress's! As they would have said in the Godfather.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
Highly likely IMHO.
Imagine as a PPS inviting 100 people into the garden of your boss, recently out of intensive care and with a new baby without telling them.....
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
Like most things, in work, in relationships, in life (and even on PB), a quick recognition that you were wrong and an apology works wonders.
"The staff of 10 Downing Street worked closely with each other, indoors, over the course of the pandemic. They are dedicated staff who braved Covid every day to come into the office. Given that any transmission of Covid was likely to have already happened inside, it was thought that a short opportunity to relax and drink outside and after work presented minimal extra risk of transmitting Covid. Nevertheless, such a party was against the rules at the time, and I should have stopped in and prevented it. Even though no harm came of it, I regret the decision and apologise."
Which would have worked in December but this is a month later and Boris did everything he could to avoid saying that first time round with the drinks. Now we have more parties which seemingly Boris completely forgot to mention when he was asked about them back in December.
On a scale of 1 to 10 the actual scandal is about a 3 (as you say it's easy to justify all the drinks outside), however, as with Watergate it's the lies and cover ups that do for you not the actual crime.
The fundamental problem is that Boris seems to always choose to lie rather than apologize. And I guess it has worked out so far in his life (in that he has ascended to the highest office of State), so I can't see him changing.
Will he be deposed?
My gut still says no. I just don't see who sticks the knife in.
54 MPs
Who so far seem to have misplaced their pens.
Why do they want a contest? Especially this side of the May elections? All they would do is put a parade of idiots on display, making vacuous promises whilst playing to the populist gallery... What could possibly go wrong?
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.
Our PM is a systematic liar. He couldn't lie straight in bed. This matters to a lot of people, though surprisingly not you it seems.
Yes, its a long held weakness of his and it is unfortunate. But it hardly makes him unique. I work on the basis that if you don't want to be a liar don't go into politics. I repeat the example: Sir Tony Blair lied and lied about what evidence he had of weapons of mass destruction, relying upon a document that Alastair Campbell made up and took us into a truly disastrous war. Why should Boris be any more accountable than him?
I was told yesterday that the 45 minute claim was different; that Blair was blameless and could not have known the claim was false.
At least nearly all (all?) Conservative supporters on here have accepted that Boris is a bit of a wrong 'un. It's sad that so many Labour-leaning supporters still try to excuse Blair over that grievous lie.
That's a pretty selective recall. As I pointed out to you at the time, it's why he's still widely reviled, quite possibly by more Labour than Tory voters.
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Cummings was Gove's consiglieri so presumably he would prefer Gove to succeed Boris. It is not likely that Sunak or Truss would invite Cummings back to Number 10.
And if Sunak was living/working in Downing Street at the time...
Even if he didn't know about the parties, nobody will believe him.
Simplest answer is that Dom doesn't have a dog in this race, he just wants to destroy Boris and any other harm is just collateral damage.
The Jeffrey Archer/Michael Dobbs answer is to leave Gove as the last man standing...
It's not just Boris, Cummings has a beef with the CP - he's not a conservative. He thinks almost all politicians are of sub-standard intelligence and the country deserves better. I'm not sure how linked he is with Gove these days.
It's noticeable that the media story is now "Tories angry with Boris" rather than "Tories are sleazy". If they force him out, the new leader would probably get a bounce for a bit. That's wh yLabour is trying to broaden the attack to "who else knew?"
Sophie Morris @itssophiemorris · 18m Tory MP Tobias Ellwood tells Sky News: "I strongly urge the PM to act now, to apologise for No 10's poor judgment, to show some contrition & to be committed to appropriately respond to Sue Gray's findings when they come out. We can't allow things to drift, that is not an option."
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Not a game, HYUFD. It is about the governance of the UK. You are prepared to let Starmer in and increase the odds on an indyref, just to clarify Dom's Messiah/very naughty boy status?
If Labour want to allow an indyref2 and devomax that is their problem
It’s the UK’s problem.
For which Labour would be responsible. The Tories do better in England than the UK, they have no benefit by respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote. The UK does.
If Starmer becomes PM and allows an indyref2 he will be responsible if it is lost as much as if it is won
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Not a game, HYUFD. It is about the governance of the UK. You are prepared to let Starmer in and increase the odds on an indyref, just to clarify Dom's Messiah/very naughty boy status?
If Labour want to allow an indyref2 and devomax that is their problem
It’s the UK’s problem.
For which Labour would be responsible. The Tories do better in England than the UK, they have no benefit by respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote. The UK does.
If Starmer becomes PM and allows an indyref2 he will be responsible if it is lost as much as if it is won
Hooray! I get 'generation' on my bingo card and it's not 10 am yet.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
Perhaps Boris is hoping for a 30 day suspension? It would save him from doing 4 or 5 PMQs..
I think it counts as contempt for Parliament. Traditionally it's a resigning matter for Ministers, but it's subject to a vote and they can try to ride it out. The Government survived even a successful contempt motion in 2018 which I must admit I'd forgotten about:
@NickPalmer - perhaps you could clarify something I get the impression that a lot of Parliaments rules depend on the people in question "self-enforcing" the penalties. If Boris ignored a contempt order, what could Parliament do about it?
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
Highly likely IMHO.
Imagine as a PPS inviting 100 people into the garden of your boss, recently out of intensive care and with a new baby without telling them.....
Absolutely. I'm sure Johnson knew. But - maybe I'm splitting hairs here - I suspect there's a difference between "Johnson knew" and "the party was Johnson's idea". The former is Omnishambles vol. 278. The latter is instant resignation.
If the latter is true, then one person who can testify to it is Martin Reynolds. That would explain protecting Reynolds.
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
I agree with most of that and approve of it, although I think you are wrong about the LDs. The LDs would also likely split as well (not sure why you think they would be any different from Lab/Tory in that respect). I have no idea how it would pan out but the LDs are definitely a coalition of Liberals and Social Democrats. I'm guessing there would be a Liberal party, maybe a Social Democrat party (if they didn't join ex Tory/Lab groups). If a Social Democrat party I would expect it to attract some ex-Tories and Labour and maybe become a main player. I suspect I would be in the Liberal party which I imagine would be a small party. All a huge amount of guess work that is probably 100% wrong on my part.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
That was one of the points Mrs T's former PS made on Woman's Hour yesterday - she said it would be most unlikely that email invitation would have been sent out without the PM's foreknowledge, based on her experience of how closely the PM and PS work together and the PS's limited scope for acting independently
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
Indeed, but the SNP are in favour of PR at Westminster. It's called strange things, 'principle' and 'good of the country'.
Because it leads to weak UK Governments and, like the LDs, the SNP would also have a role to play. I'm assuming that the SNP would have a PR adjustment so that Scotland's 'special position' would be taken into account as opposed to being 4% of the whole UK?
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
Indeed, but the SNP are in favour of PR at Westminster. It's called strange things, 'principle' and 'good of the country'.
Because it leads to weak UK Governments and, like the LDs, the SNP would also have a role to play. I'm assuming that the SNP would have a PR adjustment so that Scotland's 'special position' would be taken into account as opposed to being 4% of the whole UK?
Are you implying that the current shower is a "strong" government?
It's been said before, but hasn't politics mover fast in the last ten years? We're fitting a decade's worth of events into six months. It's hard to keep up...
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Which is why he'll be given a choice after the May elections, jump on an agreed schedule or be deposed tomorrow.
He's made so many internal enemies in the party that no one will stick up for him.
This seems to be designed to push the schedule forward to next week rather than the elections in May. Otherwise why would Boris be being placed in a position where the half truths provided in December are unravelling this week into outright lies.
Whoever is behind it - surely Cummo - doesn't want to risk something turning up before May/June that gets him off the hook. The local elections being a PM-finishing disaster isn't guaranteed, after all.
O/t but just looked up my diary for May 20th, 2020 and, on what I've recorded as a lovely day we went for a walk to a local beauty spot ...... not really beautiful, but locally very significant, and on the way back we actually saw a cuckoo.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
I hadn't thought of that. He could say he was utterly shocked and this is all part of my evidence to the investigation and I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to prejudice the investigation.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
I acknowledge that. It is the lying and evasion that is annoying people. But the underlying "offence" is utterly trivial. Remember when we had nearly 2 weeks of nonsense about whether Dominic Cummings went on a drive? And the police then decided they were taking no action because they never did after the event? People need to get a bit of a grip but our political leaders also need to recognise the importance of telling the truth.
It is NOT TRIVIAL.
The restrictions we have been placed under were utterly unprecedented.
Had any PB'er - some ancient version of Leon, for example - popped up here a few years back and predicted that, soon, we would be prevented by law from seeing friends or family, told how often we could leave our homes, that Police would be counting how many people we were talking to in the park, that we'd be banned from travel (except Leon, obvs) and that people would be arrested for holding small quiet parties in their own gardens - we'd have told him to get back to his bottle.
The reason, we were told, that we all had to suffer these 'outrageous' limitations on our freedom and liberty was to stem the spread of the virus and protect the NHS. We were also told we were all in it together.
That those who took such a dramatic and wide-reaching decision, imposing all of this on the entire population (with consequentially devastating effects for many businesses, and for mental health) and gave the Police the power to arrest and fine people who transgressed, somehow felt they were above making the same sacrifices themselves, felt able to laugh and joke about it, and then lie about it, is the issue.
Does not mean people always complied, Durdle Door beach was packed in May 2020 despite police efforts
So what your saying is that if someone else broke the rules it’s ok to break the rules? Try that one in court and see how far you get.
The issue here is those that wrote the rules, broke the rules.
If proved no work was discussed in the garden but they were at No 10 to do essential work which was allowed
If it is essential work you don't invite 100 people on a it will be nice if you come basis and have 30 turn up. No, you just don't.
Yes, the 100 invitees is staring everyone in the face. A hundred?! WTF
That 70 refused the invite is also stunning. 70% of recipients immediately saw the idiocy.
The instruction to delete the digital evidence trail is the killer. Surely criminal in itself.
I suspect 70 saw the chance to get home at a sane time rather than 2 hours more work.
I do wonder if No 10 has a issue with presentism being required to survive in that environment.
The whole UK has a problem with presentism. Twats hanging about at work doing bugger all. No wonder productivity is shite (chapeau to Starmer for highlighting the productivity scandal to the CBI, the day after the PM talked to them about… er… Peppa Pig).
In Sweden we actually work when we’re at work. Then bugger off at 4 sharp to pick up the kids. 3 on Fridays. And 7 weeks paid holiday. Plus astonishingly good parental leave. Etc etc etc. We can afford it because we are not addicted to presentism.
Interesting point, though not my personal experience of British workplaces. We had a Zoom council meeting yesterday where one of the staff gamely attended despite having Covid - she looked grim but determined to keep doing her bit. That's one situation where wfh helps - I wonder if sickeness absences for non-Covid reasons have dropped? I'd certainly have taken the day off work in th eoffice with a bad cold or flu. Working from home, maybe not.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
It has cut through massively. Johnson is finished in my opinion. I'm hoping the Tory MPs see this - they must surely? The worry for the CP in turning to his likely replacement - Sunak? - is will allegations surface about him? How determined in Cummings to wreck the CP?
I think all the Tories know it - the problem they have is that Plan A - letting BJ soak up the bad news from the tax rises, fuel price crisis and bad election results, and dumping him in May for an 'orderly' election when hopefully the virus has receded - was, until a day or two ago, their best plan.
The Tories have a majority of 80, the election does not need to be until 2024
You underestimate the cumulative toxic effect of his continuing as Tory leader and PM for another five months. cf. John Major. If you wait until May, your party might be damaged and discredited beyond repair for the foreseeable?
No alternative leader would have done any better than Major in 1997 and the latest polls have the Tories only 3 to 5% behind, even after earlier garden party stories. Major's Tories were over 20% behind by 1995
You’re big on a wheel of time interpretation of history aren’t you?
Johnson now leads a zombie government, that much is now clear. The critical question for the Tories is can a new leader recover what has been so needlessly squandered? The problem now is that any in the current cabinet can be guilty by association. However, the old Tories and the ERG lack power to defeat each other. So the new leader will face a mutinous and chaotic party caucus at just the time that they need discipline and focus. In that sense Johnson has remade the party in his own image, and if he goes I'm not at all sure the Tories can avoid a profound split. In the same way that widening the franchise did for the Old Liberal Party in the 1920s under somewhat similar circumstances, I think PR could well do the same for the Conservatives a century later. A century of Tory dominance may finally be drawing to a close.
PR of course kills off any chance of a Labour majority government ever again.
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
I agree with most of that and approve of it, although I think you are wrong about the LDs. The LDs would also likely split as well (not sure why you think they would be any different from Lab/Tory in that respect). I have no idea how it would pan out but the LDs are definitely a coalition of Liberals and Social Democrats. I'm guessing there would be a Liberal party, maybe a Social Democrat party (if they didn't join ex Tory/Lab groups). If a Social Democrat party I would expect it to attract some ex-Tories and Labour and maybe become a main player. I suspect I would be in the Liberal party which I imagine would be a small party. All a huge amount of guess work that is probably 100% wrong on my part.
The PM broke rules of his own making, and has lied about it. This has really cut through and the anger is genuine. The longer it carries on the more the Conservative Party is compromised.
It has cut through massively. Johnson is finished in my opinion. I'm hoping the Tory MPs see this - they must surely? The worry for the CP in turning to his likely replacement - Sunak? - is will allegations surface about him? How determined in Cummings to wreck the CP?
I think all the Tories know it - the problem they have is that Plan A - letting BJ soak up the bad news from the tax rises, fuel price crisis and bad election results, and dumping him in May for an 'orderly' election when hopefully the virus has receded - was, until a day or two ago, their best plan.
The Tories have a majority of 80, the election does not need to be until 2024
You underestimate the cumulative toxic effect of his continuing as Tory leader and PM for another five months. cf. John Major. If you wait until May, your party might be damaged and discredited beyond repair for the foreseeable?
No alternative leader would have done any better than Major in 1997 and the latest polls have the Tories only 3 to 5% behind, even after earlier garden party stories. Major's Tories were over 20% behind by 1995
You may be doomed, either way - yes, a good point.
I asked this yesterday and I don't think I got a reply - what is the punishment in Parliament for being caught lying to Parliament?
A minister who inadvertently misleads Parliament is expected to correct the record at the earliest opportunity. A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
It's Boris though - he isn't going to resign of his own choice..
Well, the person in charge of overseeing breaches of the ministerial code, is of course the PM himself.
Can anyone point to *exactly* when Parliament may have been misled by the PM?
For starters, the PM told Parliament at the beginning of December that "all guidance was followed completely in No. 10."
This is the killer point. As soon as Boris makes a small step forward, the ground is going to be removed from under his feet. This is fascinating to witness. Someone’s playing a blinder. Sunak? Truss? Gove? Cummings? A.N. Other?
I suspect A.N. Other. If you’re reading this: you’re good. Very, very good. Chapeau!
Its Cummings. The guy is a higher-level strategist. Sacked by Peppa to keep the missus happy, he knows everything because he was involved in everything. So he can choose what to release when it will do the most damage, has already assessed what Peppa will do because he knows him so well, and is sat there dropping new information at the precise time to acutely cause the most damage.
Until this week I was going to vote for Sunak as next leader.
However as a Tory member if Cummings keeps up with this campaign and forces Boris out I might even vote for Truss now she has said she backs a constitutional monarchy over Sunak as I do not believe Cummings should be rewarded with what he wants. Even if that makes Starmer PM
Not a game, HYUFD. It is about the governance of the UK. You are prepared to let Starmer in and increase the odds on an indyref, just to clarify Dom's Messiah/very naughty boy status?
If Labour want to allow an indyref2 and devomax that is their problem
It’s the UK’s problem.
For which Labour would be responsible. The Tories do better in England than the UK, they have no benefit by respecting the once in a generation 2014 vote. The UK does.
If Starmer becomes PM and allows an indyref2 he will be responsible if it is lost as much as if it is won
Hooray! I get 'generation' on my bingo card and it's not 10 am yet.
Apparently the only real takeaway from Brexit is the sovereignty of the UK Parliament to govern England (which after the breakup of the UK as a trading area is less than it was before).
But that sovereignty doesn't mean that parliament is not bound by the actions of its predecessors. No siree! Just as the 2017 parliament MUST have been bound by the 2015 parliament over Brexit, the 2024 parliament MUST be bound by the 2010 parliament over Scotland. Not that either referendum bound those parliaments in the way is now being retrospectively applied but never mind.
Either parliament is sovereign or it is not. And yet here we are saying that it is but woe betide it being sovereign in these areas. Any parliament can overturn any law in any previous parliament. Thats what being sovereign is. Whether the Epping branch chair of Plaid Cymru likes it or not.
Lots of debate here about whether Johnson will walk or be pushed. I doubt he’ll walk, he’ll believe this is all a triviality and will have convinced himself (with the help of his wife, unless I misjudge her) that he’s done nothing wrong and has been making noble sacrifices for the good of the nation.
So who delivers the whisky bottle and revolver. I doubt it’s Cabinet collectively, as most are supine and will lose their jobs once he goes. He has few trusted political advisors left, Cain, Frost, Cummings, Lister etc… all gone.
It can’t be someone in the running to take his job. But needs to be someone he trusts and who hasn’t so far been a vocal opponent. Someone who retains something of the old fashioned view of how things ought to be done. Don’t scoff at the back, but if he’s going to go without the humiliation of the letters, it will be Rees Mogg that talks him into it.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
I hadn't thought of that. He could say he was utterly shocked and this is all part of my evidence to the investigation and I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to prejudice the investigation.
Almost no-one would believe him, but heigh-ho, what's new?
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
I can't imagine Boris is one for checking his emails regularly, so its possible he's just utterly clueless about all manner of things.
So what's the next step in this saga? Will the letters go in? Will a minister resign? Is there a modern equivalent of the stalking horse who could break cover and publicly campaign for the 54 letters?
One of the leading cabinet members resigning is currently my guess.
Someone who is lagging behind at the half way stage in the next leadership stakes (i.e. now) but also subtly positioning themselves for a run.
Someone like Gove wouldn't surprise me (but Frost resigning did). However he might not be enough on his own.
As an aside, someone on an earlier thread mentioned that Mark Harper doesn't have red wall credentials and so ruled him out as Tory leader. I'd disagree with that: working class lad from a council estate made good, excellent campaigner and a good communicator. A safe pair of hands. Reminds me of John Major at his height.
If I were betting on next leader, it would go something like this:
Possible runners but unlikely to do well:
Fox Davis McVey Shapps Brady Gove Patel Zahawi Javid (so underwhelming)
People who might surprise:
Kwarteng Baker Harper Raab Wallace Barclay Dowden
The favourites for the last two:
Hunt Truss Sunak
I'm on Baker. Base will love him and by all accounts (of those who know him) is a super smart character. Does the country want someone like that? Not sure. Does the Cons Party? No idea but they could do a lot worse. Unlike the present incumbent he is a WYSIWYG kind of guy and jeez we need one of those right now.
From his bio I think he'd be quite good at "maths" - which would be refreshing.
I don't get it. @Selebian seems a competent enough maths guy. What are you trying to say.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not Steve Baker. I am however known as the hardman of epidemiology, which makes up for my incompetence in maths. Maybe.
Also, given my recent maths snafu, we can all perhaps better understand how the epi models had everyone in hospital with Covid by now
I hadn't thought of that. He could say he was utterly shocked and this is all part of my evidence to the investigation and I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to prejudice the investigation.
I hadn't thought of that. He could say he was utterly shocked and this is all part of my evidence to the investigation and I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to prejudice the investigation.
Bollocks
Well of course it is bollocks Scott. Wouldn't put it past him though.
Wow, the Downing St staff having a drink outside after work, on a day when Bournemouth beach was crowded with day-trippers, is still leading the news. I’m clearly in a small minority here, in not giving a crap. It wasn’t at the height of “don’t leave your house”, it was when parks and beaches were busy.
So what else is happening right now, for which this is providing convenient distraction?
I find it very hard to believe that Sunak did not know about these parties. Yet he said nothing. So he too is blameworthy.
And if he is using them to become PM then that shows equal contempt for the public and makes him IMO unfit to be PM. I've never bought into the Sunak-as-saviour-story.
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
Why not turn it around and run against his own lockdown measures?
"Everybody knew that talking to people outside wasn't going to spread covid. We were persuaded by the elitist remainer boffins that the public wouldn't understand the distinction between indoors and outdoors, and enforced a lockdown which while mainly sensible, also included some restrictions that we ourselves did not take seriously. I apologise for making these rules, and we will not be doing it again."
"The Prime Minister’s unprincipled principal private secretary has handed a baseball bat to Labour, which they will use with relish. Downing Street said that Martin Reynolds has the PM’s “full confidence”. Well, he hasn’t got anybody else’s. Reynolds is a damn fool who should resign immediately, if he hasn’t done so by the time you read this."
Telegraph
Entirely possible, of course, that Reynolds organised the party on Johnson's instructions, and that Johnson is keeping him there terrified of that emerging.
If Johnson actually attended it, it's hard to imagine it was a surprise. But he could try that line - "I found to my astonishment that someone had organised a party in the garden, so I went down briefly and saw various people on my staff and wished them all the best." I think the explanation would be greeted with derision, but he might survive that.
I hadn't thought of that. He could say he was utterly shocked and this is all part of my evidence to the investigation and I didn't mention it before because I didn't want to prejudice the investigation.
Almost no-one would believe him, but heigh-ho, what's new?
I'm not a Tory member but I have generally voted Tory. I hoped Boris would win the leadership and stopping Corbyn was absolutely necessary. He got Brexit over the line so it was no longer a daily argument.
In my lifetime I do not remember a Prime Minister in such a good position (remember Hartlepool?) trashing it in such a short space of time. It has been entirely of his own making. He has switched from being a vote winner to being a vote loser.
Boris needs to go. Tory MPs should be sending their letters to Sir Graham Brady now if they haven't already.
Having said that I think the next election is a good one to lose (like 1992). Losing narrowly and leaving a Labour party in power with either no majority or a small one would be a good result in the long run for the Tories.
Having said that I think the next election is a good one to lose (like 1992). Losing narrowly and leaving a Labour party in power with either no majority or a small one would be a good result in the long run for the Tories.
Because Labour would have to clean up their Brexit shit...
Comments
So Boris will want to see August to beat May's figures and supposedly wants to get to at least 2025 to beat Cameron. Now the latter requires winning a second election (can't see that happening) but August 2022 is in sight and all he has to do is get to June...
The problem with splitting off from the CPGB (Johnsonist-ReesMoggist) is that it cuts the MPs for Scottish constituencies off from much hope of becoming prime minister. I know Bonar Law and Alec Douglas Home succeeded before the merger but in those days the Union was much tighter and today a separate Scottish Unionist Party would be regarded as a bunch of remainers by the E&W rump.
Plus they'd need a new name - in the name SCUP, Unionist was and for many years remained in the UIster sense. Some of us remember the years when the UP were very much part of the Protestant nativist supremacy this side of the water. Conservative would not do, as it would tie them to Mr Johnson and his successors. Wonder what they would pick?
Live. Laugh. Love.
Apart from the top handful, most of the SpAds are in their twenties and not earning massive salaries. Guido keeps a list of what is declared.
There will be a VOC by Easter
Easy come, easy go.
Boris is aiming for at least a dozen offspring. He’ll need to work through another couple of mares before he’s finished.
Perverting the Course of Justice - instructing staff to delete all messages that relate to the illegal parties - is a bigger crime than the illegal parties.
Telegraph
A minister who willfully misleads Parliament, would be expected to resign and may be sanctioned by the Standard Committee.
Even if he didn't know about the parties, nobody will believe him.
Simplest answer is that Dom doesn't have a dog in this race, he just wants to destroy Boris and any other harm is just collateral damage.
The Jeffrey Archer/Michael Dobbs answer is to leave Gove as the last man standing...
He's made so many internal enemies in the party that no one will stick up for him.
Can anyone point to *exactly* when Parliament may have been misled by the PM?
Corbynites break away and form their own party as the ERG would break away and join RefUK and also win seats under PR.
PR kills the 2 main parties as current and majority governments, its main beneficiaries the LDs who would nearly always be in power and smaller parties like ReformUK and the Greens. It also hits the SNP at Westminster
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1481191461513220098
I hope you are not referring to what I wrote in my header.
I have not made up anything about my daughter's despair at the damage done to her business. Nor about my in-laws grief at the loss of their son and the family having to worry about how to comfort them without the additional worry of complying with rules which others were gaily ignoring.
While you were busy enjoying lovely country walks, we also had the very real worry of trying to find somewhere to live while our house was being rebuilt (work which came to a halt at the start of lockdown) at a time when this was very difficult and there were some snitching on those who were thought to have fled from the cities. I wrote about this on here at the time.
I hope we are all grownup enough to forgive mistakes and to understand that no-one is perfect. But we are also entitled to expect those in charge to make some attempt to comply with the commands they were giving the rest of us on a daily basis and not to take the piss quite as blatantly as they have been.
@DPJHodges
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5m
Tory MP: “Yesterday Rishi and Liz were contacting MPs asking to meet about “the current situation””. Not so much blood in the water, as Robert Shaw’s chum in the water. Boris is going to need a bigger boat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Parliament
@itssophiemorris
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18m
Tory MP Tobias Ellwood tells Sky News: "I strongly urge the PM to act now, to apologise for No 10's poor judgment, to show some contrition & to be committed to appropriately respond to Sue Gray's findings when they come out. We can't allow things to drift, that is not an option."
If Starmer becomes PM and allows an indyref2 he will be responsible if it is lost as much as if it is won
If the latter is true, then one person who can testify to it is Martin Reynolds. That would explain protecting Reynolds.
How would you feel if you were in Sue Gray's current position and needing to report on the No 10 parties?
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2022/01/if-johnson-has-to-quit-is-it-best-he-does-so-quickly.html
In terms of the law at the time relating to the latest party, these are the details:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/2020-05-20
The bulk of the direct lies were outside of Parliament:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/9-times-boris-johnson-lied-25918397
But that's not an exhaustive list, and no doubt there are other PMQs, for example, where he can be shown to have deliberately misled the Commons.
But that sovereignty doesn't mean that parliament is not bound by the actions of its predecessors. No siree! Just as the 2017 parliament MUST have been bound by the 2015 parliament over Brexit, the 2024 parliament MUST be bound by the 2010 parliament over Scotland. Not that either referendum bound those parliaments in the way is now being retrospectively applied but never mind.
Either parliament is sovereign or it is not. And yet here we are saying that it is but woe betide it being sovereign in these areas. Any parliament can overturn any law in any previous parliament. Thats what being sovereign is. Whether the Epping branch chair of Plaid Cymru likes it or not.
So who delivers the whisky bottle and revolver. I doubt it’s Cabinet collectively, as most are supine and will lose their jobs once he goes. He has few trusted political advisors left, Cain, Frost, Cummings, Lister etc… all gone.
It can’t be someone in the running to take his job. But needs to be someone he trusts and who hasn’t so far been a vocal opponent. Someone who retains something of the old fashioned view of how things ought to be done. Don’t scoff at the back, but if he’s going to go without the humiliation of the letters, it will be Rees Mogg that talks him into it.
Which would explain a lot.
Also, given my recent maths snafu, we can all perhaps better understand how the epi models had everyone in hospital with Covid by now
And if he is using them to become PM then that shows equal contempt for the public and makes him IMO unfit to be PM. I've never bought into the Sunak-as-saviour-story.
"Everybody knew that talking to people outside wasn't going to spread covid. We were persuaded by the elitist remainer boffins that the public wouldn't understand the distinction between indoors and outdoors, and enforced a lockdown which while mainly sensible, also included some restrictions that we ourselves did not take seriously. I apologise for making these rules, and we will not be doing it again."
Which means he gets away with it. Again.
Tory majority: 402 https://twitter.com/Christian4BuryS/status/1481194121587040257
In my lifetime I do not remember a Prime Minister in such a good position (remember Hartlepool?) trashing it in such a short space of time. It has been entirely of his own making. He has switched from being a vote winner to being a vote loser.
Boris needs to go. Tory MPs should be sending their letters to Sir Graham Brady now if they haven't already.
Having said that I think the next election is a good one to lose (like 1992). Losing narrowly and leaving a Labour party in power with either no majority or a small one would be a good result in the long run for the Tories.