Johnson exit date betting moves sharply to 2022 – politicalbetting.com
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Blimey, don't tell our PC Chair! She will be getting her chains of office measured up PDQIanB2 said:
Whether or not a parish council decides to style itself as a town council is entirely up to them, and carries no consequence other than its chair becomes a mayor.BlancheLivermore said:
Hetton-le-Hole is in the list of towns, with a town council. Houghton-le-Spring is not.RochdalePioneers said:
In the case of Houghton, the post office. Combine a load of pit villages of varying sizes together and hey presto the postal "town" of Houghton-le-Spring. Was always glad I didn't live down the road as its postal address was:Anabobazina said:If a church makes a hamlet a village, and a cathedral makes a town a city, what makes a village a town?
X Street
Hetton-le-Hole
Houghton-le-Spring
DH4 XYZ
Too many -le-'s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_England1 -
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.0 -
The media was much more supine in those days so his corruption was really only noticed in retrospect.OldKingCole said:
David L-G was someone I was taught to admire, but of whom my opinion has steadily gone, down, particularly as a result of his (political) conduct after WWINigel_Foremain said:
and he was a great exponent of "pork barrel politics" perhaps?Carnyx said:
He did like to play 'hide the pork sausage' rather a lot.Nigel_Foremain said:
Lloyd George was a great orator, and though I have not read all his speeches rarely mentioned Peppa Pigland.TheScreamingEagles said:
He's no David Lloyd George, actually I have a piece coming up soon that actually says Boris Johnson is the new David Lloyd George.kinabalu said:
Blair might have shifted it but Johnson has taken it out and moved it to another building.moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.0 -
I believe Ann Summers has a New Year sale on for Mayors of either or any gender. Very economical.Nigel_Foremain said:
Blimey, don't tell our PC Chair! She will be getting her chains of office measured up PDQIanB2 said:
Whether or not a parish council decides to style itself as a town council is entirely up to them, and carries no consequence other than its chair becomes a mayor.BlancheLivermore said:
Hetton-le-Hole is in the list of towns, with a town council. Houghton-le-Spring is not.RochdalePioneers said:
In the case of Houghton, the post office. Combine a load of pit villages of varying sizes together and hey presto the postal "town" of Houghton-le-Spring. Was always glad I didn't live down the road as its postal address was:Anabobazina said:If a church makes a hamlet a village, and a cathedral makes a town a city, what makes a village a town?
X Street
Hetton-le-Hole
Houghton-le-Spring
DH4 XYZ
Too many -le-'s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_England1 -
It'd be one of the 10 smallest cities in the UK, I think even if you include the tiny Welsh ones.Carnyx said:BlancheLivermore said:Gibraltar is quite a large town.
Got a cathedral. A proper Anglican one an all (for those who think that matters).BlancheLivermore said:Gibraltar is quite a large town.
https://www.holytrinitygibraltar.org/0 -
As picked up by PB straight away.
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
·
2h
And remember as Ellis just said if the Met decides to launch an investigation the Gray investigation would be halted. So then presumably position would be PM/No 10 wouldn’t comment while that investigation went on. Which could take a long time.
===
This is his get out of jail card. The police investigate. We need the Met to hold off until Grey reports.
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Off topic, this is interesting. Stacey Abrams is missing Biden's keynote speech in Georgia, claiming "scheduling conflicts".
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stacey-abrams-will-miss-bidens-voting-rights-speech-in-georgia
Her excuse is probably b*llocks, the question is why is doing something that will be interpreted as a deliberate snub.0 -
Indeed. Blair's dissembling and duplicity with polish certainly made the public disillusioned. But Johnson and Trump have been surfing a wave of something much more extreme, and quite different - proud disillusion and cynicism, and to a certain extent, actually nihilism.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.0 -
It’s good to see that the opposition in his local seat is making hay on the back of his risible performance in the House today.LostPassword said:
That's what struck me about the patsy minister sent out to the Commons today. He's the sort of toadying non-entity you get running things when loyalty to the leader, and the willingness to do and say anything are the only qualities that matter.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
Those are the standards of authoritarian regimes, of a Putin or a Xi, not of parliamentary democracies.
Anyone with any competence or principle has nothing to do with it, and the standard of governance suffers severely.
Which he only had to do because our national leader decided that spending lunchtime inside his fridge would be the more comfortable choice.0 -
Well, we'll see what he says. But he did resign as a minister over the Cummings trip and has form in going against the party line. He'd certainly never have prospered in the SNP which, as you know, doesn't encourage independent thinking.Carnyx said:
Obvs not a real Tory either. Lacks the necessary mussel byssus glue level adherence to the party line. He'll be voting for independence next (albeit only for the SCons, not for the other inhabitants of Scotland).Scott_xP said:Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
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Epping is a small town, as are Chigwell, Loughton, Buckhurst Hill, Waltham Abbey etc.OldKingCole said:
Sorry, but have to disagree; it's whether or not there's a long established market. Call at least one 'place' round here a village and, although it's population is about 6000, you'll find yourself shunned in the pub.HYUFD said:
A population of over 10,000 but less than 100,000 and a church but not a cathedralAnabobazina said:If a church makes a hamlet a village, and a cathedral makes a town a city, what makes a village a town?
Edit; I've always regarded Epping as a small town.
The villages in Epping Forest district are the likes of Roydon, North Weald Bassett, Magdalen Laver, Abridge, Roydon, Epping Upland, Theydon Bois, Fyfield etc.0 -
If that tweet is accurate, 55 MPs are currently writing letters.rottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
56m
Tory MP: “This is a shit show Dan. He's hanging by a thread. No one is comfortable any more. He cannot continue to dump on us. I think he's reached the tipping point tbh”. Fairly concise. And representative.
I don't believe that is the case...0 -
🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/10 -
A nonsense comparison, given that Mr Johnson actively defenestrated a large chunk of the party.Burgessian said:
Well, we'll see what he says. But he did resign as a minister over the Cummings trip and has form in going against the party line. He'd certainly never have prospered in the SNP which, as you know, doesn't encourage independent thinking.Carnyx said:
Obvs not a real Tory either. Lacks the necessary mussel byssus glue level adherence to the party line. He'll be voting for independence next (albeit only for the SCons, not for the other inhabitants of Scotland).Scott_xP said:Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
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Peter Walker
@peterwalker99
·
1h
One of the incidental but very eloquent lessons of all the tragic lockdown personal stories being recounted is that, in retrospect, forcing people to die, give birth or be gravely ill alone was wrong and inhuman, whatever the very genuine public health reasons.
===
It will be seen by historians as near medieval and barbaric in time. Ludicrous over reaction.0 -
We can but hope...Scott_xP said:
If that tweet is accurate, 55 MPs are currently writing letters.rottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
56m
Tory MP: “This is a shit show Dan. He's hanging by a thread. No one is comfortable any more. He cannot continue to dump on us. I think he's reached the tipping point tbh”. Fairly concise. And representative.
I don't believe that is the case...0 -
Might be a lousy idea to address the problem but it's good politics.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh dear, just when you think Labour might be edging towards becoming a credible government-in-waiting again, they blow all that credibility on this utterly daft idea of cutting VAT on fuel - just about the most inefficient measure anyone could come up with to address the problem.
1. It hoists Boris and the Tory Brexiteers by their own putard after it was one of the key pledges they made as to why Brexit was a good idea.
2. It signals to the Red Wall that Labour in general and Starmer in particular have fundamentally accepted Brexit.
3. VAT on fuel has always been a controversial and hated tax from the day it was announced in Lamont's 1993 budget and very much coincided with John Major's government imploding... Not the only reason of course but the optics of that particular tax always looked dreadful after the recession and Major's ERM fiasco.0 -
Presumably the 10% Labour should not are the ones thinking - 'keep him in power to guarantee the win...'Scott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/10 -
That's to put process ahead of politics.rottenborough said:As picked up by PB straight away.
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
·
2h
And remember as Ellis just said if the Met decides to launch an investigation the Gray investigation would be halted. So then presumably position would be PM/No 10 wouldn’t comment while that investigation went on. Which could take a long time.
===
This is his get out of jail card. The police investigate. We need the Met to hold off until Grey reports.
Tory MPs will move against Johnson whatever the report or the Met says, *if* they regard the PM as sufficiently damaged goods that he has to go.
Johnson can run a smirk-excuse as much as he likes but if the public doesn't buy it then it won't protect him.1 -
But Bradford has a Cathedral, but no Diocese or Bishop.RH1992 said:
I think the Booths in Ilkley would sooner close than accept having to put Bradford down on it's address.SandyRentool said:
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.OnlyLivingBoy said:
A town in a city? How does that work?JosiasJessop said:
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.RochdalePioneers said:
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.HYUFD said:
Houghton has a population of 36,746.RochdalePioneers said:
I lived there for 3 years. Your move luv.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Complicated place
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The food, fine clothes, fragrance ?Carnyx said:
TBF Cyclefree does her best.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
1 -
Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/14809235633517609050 -
Boss had to do it firstStuartDickson said:
Ruth Davidson beat him to it.Scott_xP said:Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
0 -
Not really - the last disease we were dealing with was Ebola which is very much a disease where keeping everyone away from someone who is ill / is dying makes perfect sense given the rate of recovery.rottenborough said:Peter Walker
@peterwalker99
·
1h
One of the incidental but very eloquent lessons of all the tragic lockdown personal stories being recounted is that, in retrospect, forcing people to die, give birth or be gravely ill alone was wrong and inhuman, whatever the very genuine public health reasons.
===
It will be seen by historians as near medieval and barbaric in time. Ludicrous over reaction.
And while Covid isn't Ebola in the early days we didn't know that but we did by late April - and a few things could have changed.1 -
And her headers, too.Nigelb said:
The food, fine clothes, fragrance ?Carnyx said:
TBF Cyclefree does her best.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
0 -
I understand that this garden party was in May 2020? This is a useful summary of where we were at different points:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9068/CBP-9068.pdf
For some reason it is not letting me copy the relevant part (on p5) but the first national lockdown began in late March 2020 when all non essential high street businesses were closed; people were ordered to stay home, permitted to leave for essential purposes only such as buying food or medical reasons. From 13th May there was some relaxation of these rules with people being permitted to leave the house for outdoor recreation. On 1st June you were allowed into other peoples' houses but not overnight. People were permitted to meet outside in groups of up to 6 people.
To be honest the details of how severe lockdown was in that period had faded somewhat in my memory, possibly because, like Downing Street Staff, I was classified as an "essential worker" who was allowed to go to work (although I very rarely did during that time).
I am really not that clear what is being investigated here. Invites to 100 people to attend even a work related event, with alcohol, in a garden, is so far out of this that its hard to know where to start. The only relevant questions are (a) Did Boris authorise this and (b) even if that cannot be established did he condone it by, for example, turning up?
Where we go from there is unclear but Boris's obfuscation has really not helped. If he had held his hands up to either (a) or (b) or both with a mea culpa then it would not have been good but it would probably have been survivable. Lying about it and being found out is very probably not. I fear, because it has gone beyond tedious, that this will be yet another example where the cover up did more damage that the original error.1 -
🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Is Boris Johnson still an asset to the Conservative Party?
🇬🇧All adults
Still an asset 25%
No longer an asset 64%
🌳2019 Con
Still an asset 45%
No longer an asset 45%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480924358927396864/photo/10 -
So much easier in Scotland. All the cathedrals are ex-cathedrals in terms of the established state religion, especially as rthe latter is now an ex-established state religion.MattW said:
But Bradford has a Cathedral, but no Diocese or Bishop.RH1992 said:
I think the Booths in Ilkley would sooner close than accept having to put Bradford down on it's address.SandyRentool said:
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.OnlyLivingBoy said:
A town in a city? How does that work?JosiasJessop said:
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.RochdalePioneers said:
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.HYUFD said:
Houghton has a population of 36,746.RochdalePioneers said:
I lived there for 3 years. Your move luv.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Complicated place0 -
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
0 -
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/14809235633517609050 -
It does crucially make a difference if you even make a public virtue of telling the truth. Johnson and Trump have made a public virtue of lying.Farooq said:
I prefer to see it as an accumulation of problems. The preceding government with the Conservatives in charge left the pile bigger than they found it. Labour did likewise. None of this is really controversial in any way. The only things that's controversial... no, stupid, in fact... is any sense that Blair arrived and there was an "onset of rot". Sleaze was literally the major (pun accidental) theme of the 97 election, and the public gave the Conservatives a kicking, in part because of sleaze.Malmesbury said:
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.
You don't have to be a Blair fan or Labour voter to remember this, you just needed to have been there.
We're the ironic, the non-naive, we understand how fallen it all is. I can make my own brother a Lord, and continue laughing every allegation off. Public standards are for pompous elites, and hypocritical bien-pensants.
That is a potentially catastrophic dynamic for democracies.1 -
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/10 -
It’s an ‘SNP is an unthinking cult’ day. Worry ye not, an ‘SNP is in the throes of a civil war’ day will be around shortly.Carnyx said:
A nonsense comparison, given that Mr Johnson actively defenestrated a large chunk of the party.Burgessian said:
Well, we'll see what he says. But he did resign as a minister over the Cummings trip and has form in going against the party line. He'd certainly never have prospered in the SNP which, as you know, doesn't encourage independent thinking.Carnyx said:
Obvs not a real Tory either. Lacks the necessary mussel byssus glue level adherence to the party line. He'll be voting for independence next (albeit only for the SCons, not for the other inhabitants of Scotland).Scott_xP said:Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
0 -
It's part of the Archdeaconry of Bradford which is in the Diocese of Leeds following the 2013 re-organisation of the dioceses of Yorkshire'sMattW said:
But Bradford has a Cathedral, but no Diocese or Bishop.RH1992 said:
I think the Booths in Ilkley would sooner close than accept having to put Bradford down on it's address.SandyRentool said:
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.OnlyLivingBoy said:
A town in a city? How does that work?JosiasJessop said:
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.RochdalePioneers said:
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.HYUFD said:
Houghton has a population of 36,746.RochdalePioneers said:
I lived there for 3 years. Your move luv.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Complicated place1 -
Bradford still has a suffragen Bishop within the diocese of LeedsMattW said:
But Bradford has a Cathedral, but no Diocese or Bishop.RH1992 said:
I think the Booths in Ilkley would sooner close than accept having to put Bradford down on it's address.SandyRentool said:
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.OnlyLivingBoy said:
A town in a city? How does that work?JosiasJessop said:
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.RochdalePioneers said:
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.HYUFD said:
Houghton has a population of 36,746.RochdalePioneers said:
I lived there for 3 years. Your move luv.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Complicated place0 -
Slight problem. Those in the survey are the ones who were prepared to admit it, like breaking wind at a Royal levee.HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/11 -
Don't headers cause brain damage?Carnyx said:
And her headers, too.Nigelb said:
The food, fine clothes, fragrance ?Carnyx said:
TBF Cyclefree does her best.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
0 -
Part 12 of the Local Government Act 1972 would appear to help define what is legally a town.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/70/part/XII0 -
Only if she is fitba mad.DavidL said:
Don't headers cause brain damage?Carnyx said:
And her headers, too.Nigelb said:
The food, fine clothes, fragrance ?Carnyx said:
TBF Cyclefree does her best.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
1 -
Will you be celebrating the Conservative 5 figure majority in the Castle Point constituency at the next general election ?HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
Agree/disagree that it is one rule for the govt and another for everybody else:
🇬🇧All adults
Agree 83%
Disagree 5%
🌳2019 Con
Agree 74%
Disagree 9%
What are your thoughts on that poll - only 9% of 2019 are "true Tories" ?0 -
Indeed. The main thing I remember was that Blair & Co. were big on the idea that -Farooq said:
I prefer to see it as an accumulation of problems. The preceding government with the Conservatives in charge left the pile bigger than they found it. Labour did likewise. None of this is really controversial in any way. The only things that's controversial... no, stupid, in fact... is any sense that Blair arrived and there was an "onset of rot". Sleaze was literally the major (pun accidental) theme of the 97 election, and the public gave the Conservatives a kicking, in part because of sleaze.Malmesbury said:
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.
You don't have to be a Blair fan or Labour voter to remember this, you just needed to have been there.
1) Something considered to be legal. Sort of. If you squinted and turned your head just so.
2) Therefore it was legal.
3) Since it was legal, they were practically obligated to do it.0 -
🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Agree/disagree that it is one rule for the govt and another for everybody else:
🇬🇧All adults
Agree 83%
Disagree 5%
🌳2019 Con
Agree 74%
Disagree 9%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480926455462866958/photo/11 -
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
1 -
A comment that could equally be applied to Sweden I would suggest.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
2 -
Are you sure? I thought it was whether or not there was a massage parlor.HYUFD said:
A population of over 10,000 but less than 100,000 and a church but not a cathedralAnabobazina said:If a church makes a hamlet a village, and a cathedral makes a town a city, what makes a village a town?
3 -
Or the Euro Champions Cup.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
1 -
New labour came to power promising to end sleaze in government and within a short space of time we had the ‘cash for fag’ scandal. Of course there was sleaze, cash for questions for example, 92-97, but New labour promised a break from that.WhisperingOracle said:
It does crucially make a difference if you even make a public virtue of telling the truth. Johnson and Trump have made a public virtue of lying.Farooq said:
I prefer to see it as an accumulation of problems. The preceding government with the Conservatives in charge left the pile bigger than they found it. Labour did likewise. None of this is really controversial in any way. The only things that's controversial... no, stupid, in fact... is any sense that Blair arrived and there was an "onset of rot". Sleaze was literally the major (pun accidental) theme of the 97 election, and the public gave the Conservatives a kicking, in part because of sleaze.Malmesbury said:
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.
You don't have to be a Blair fan or Labour voter to remember this, you just needed to have been there.
We're the ironic, the non-naive, we understand how fallen it all is. I can make my own brother a Lord, and continue laughing every allegation off. Public standards are for pompous elites, and hypocritical bien-pensants.
That is a potentially catastrophic dynamic for democracies.0 -
It also rather misses the vast improvement in English wine in the last two decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
A comment that could equally be applied to Sweden I would suggest.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
3 -
The World Health Organization has warned that half of Europe will have been infected with the Omicron variant of Covid-19 within six to eight weeks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-599489200 -
New YouGov poll says Scots most convinced Boris Johnson should resign. Via @SamCoatesSky https://twitter.com/davieclegg/status/1480927048864604169/photo/10
-
The trend is only going up. You’re at risk of alienating 40% of your 2019 voting population and you think that’s good?HYUFD said:
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/14809235633517609050 -
Yes Taz, he is a real pain in the butt, not interested in discussion , just constantly insulting me , very tedious. I keep thinking I should ignore it which is the sensible thing to do but at times I just have to say something. Obviously not a very nice person , fine having banter back and forward but he is just a pest.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
0 -
Indeed, and even you fall short, what you profess to represent is still important. There's no realistic attempt to project anything other than cynicism with Johnson.Taz said:
New labour came to power promising to end sleaze in government and within a short space of time we had the ‘cash for fag’ scandal. Of course there was sleaze, cash for questions for example, 92-97, but New labour promised a break from that.WhisperingOracle said:
It does crucially make a difference if you even make a public virtue of telling the truth. Johnson and Trump have made a public virtue of lying.Farooq said:
I prefer to see it as an accumulation of problems. The preceding government with the Conservatives in charge left the pile bigger than they found it. Labour did likewise. None of this is really controversial in any way. The only things that's controversial... no, stupid, in fact... is any sense that Blair arrived and there was an "onset of rot". Sleaze was literally the major (pun accidental) theme of the 97 election, and the public gave the Conservatives a kicking, in part because of sleaze.Malmesbury said:
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.
You don't have to be a Blair fan or Labour voter to remember this, you just needed to have been there.
We're the ironic, the non-naive, we understand how fallen it all is. I can make my own brother a Lord, and continue laughing every allegation off. Public standards are for pompous elites, and hypocritical bien-pensants.
That is a potentially catastrophic dynamic for democracies.0 -
A good day for topical spoof poetry:
It is not for me
to say whether
I ate the plums
that were in the icebox.
As you know
Sue Grey
is investigating
this matter
We await
her conclusions
so sweet
and so cold
https://twitter.com/tds153/status/1480850326974517248?s=204 -
I hope you are right but I fear they will just look the other way and hope for the best.david_herdson said:
That's to put process ahead of politics.rottenborough said:As picked up by PB straight away.
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
·
2h
And remember as Ellis just said if the Met decides to launch an investigation the Gray investigation would be halted. So then presumably position would be PM/No 10 wouldn’t comment while that investigation went on. Which could take a long time.
===
This is his get out of jail card. The police investigate. We need the Met to hold off until Grey reports.
Tory MPs will move against Johnson whatever the report or the Met says, *if* they regard the PM as sufficiently damaged goods that he has to go.
Johnson can run a smirk-excuse as much as he likes but if the public doesn't buy it then it won't protect him.0 -
“It means that if I’m meeting friends for lunch in a pub today, the primary [risk] is likely to be me transmitting it to my friends, or my friends transmitting it to me, rather than it being transmitted from someone on the other side of the room,”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/covid-loses-90-of-ability-to-infect-within-five-minutes-in-air-study?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other0 -
Had some decent meatballs with lingonberry sauce at IKEA last weekend tbfRichard_Tyndall said:
A comment that could equally be applied to Sweden I would suggest.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
1 -
As I said unless Labour are consistently 10%+ ahead there is no point replacing Boris. Especially as the membership might pick Truss over Sunak who would likely poll even worseRazedabode said:
The trend is only going up. You’re at risk of alienating 40% of your 2019 voting population and you think that’s good?HYUFD said:
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/14809235633517609050 -
Ah, but some of those 74% presumably think it a good thing ?Pulpstar said:
Will you be celebrating the Conservative 5 figure majority in the Castle Point constituency at the next general election ?HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
Agree/disagree that it is one rule for the govt and another for everybody else:
🇬🇧All adults
Agree 83%
Disagree 5%
🌳2019 Con
Agree 74%
Disagree 9%
What are your thoughts on that poll - only 9% of 2019 are "true Tories" ?
Perhaps HYUFD is one of their number ?1 -
He would have been toast before now.Burgessian said:
Well, we'll see what he says. But he did resign as a minister over the Cummings trip and has form in going against the party line. He'd certainly never have prospered in the SNP which, as you know, doesn't encourage independent thinking.Carnyx said:
Obvs not a real Tory either. Lacks the necessary mussel byssus glue level adherence to the party line. He'll be voting for independence next (albeit only for the SCons, not for the other inhabitants of Scotland).Scott_xP said:Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
0 -
This reminds me most of Gordon Brown.
Big clunking fist, master of all he surveyed to figure of fun, to object of derision in a few short months.0 -
Or the coastline of most of the South West. But it gets the point across: England = bad.rcs1000 said:
It also rather misses the vast improvement in English wine in the last two decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
A comment that could equally be applied to Sweden I would suggest.StuartDickson said:
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.IanB2 said:In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
0 -
I hadn't realised just how early the US started offshoring their tech manufacturing.
https://www.eetimes.com/the-roots-of-silicon-valley-part-2-planar-technology-the-fairchildren/
...With as many as 15,000 die now on a single wafer, assembly and test now outweighed wafer fab costs. Hence, the need to reduce labor costs as a matter of survival. After some early failed ventures, for example in Shiprock, N.M., at a Navajo reservation, along with early attempts at automation, offshoring test and assembly to Asia ultimately proved successful, at least in the short term. Bob Noyce, an investor in a small radio company in Hong Kong, suggested to Charlie Sporck that he and Jerry Levine scout the region.
They were attracted by the low labor cost, non-unionized facilities, western-educated technicians, good engineering schools, and tax incentives and other government subsidies. In 1963, Fairchild set up the industry’s first Far East assembly and test operation in a former shoe factory on the Kowloon side of Hong Kong. Other semiconductor manufacturers subsequently followed Fairchild to the Far East, primarily Malaysia...
0 -
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/14 -
Scots Tory leader @douglas4moray calls on Boris Johnson to confirm *now* he was at the BYOB party.
"We shouldn't have to wait until PMQs tomorrow. We should hear the answer now."
💥He adds: "If the PM has misled Parliament he must resign".
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/14809281606236037141 -
I say again F*** off lowlife peddle your crap elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
0 -
Have you two fallen out over something?Nigel_Foremain said:
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
3 -
Think it's fair to say the gauntlet has been well and truly thrown down there...Scott_xP said:Scots Tory leader @douglas4moray calls on Boris Johnson to confirm *now* he was at the BYOB party.
"We shouldn't have to wait until PMQs tomorrow. We should hear the answer now."
💥He adds: "If the PM has misled Parliament he must resign".
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/14809281606236037142 -
It is a good way for identifying the genuine true Tories though.david_herdson said:
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
In election terms however if Boris comes out of this with the Tories 10%+ behind then he would be in trouble but only if that occurs0 -
Even an absolute bounder would have fallen on his sword by now.DavidL said:I understand that this garden party was in May 2020? This is a useful summary of where we were at different points:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9068/CBP-9068.pdf
For some reason it is not letting me copy the relevant part (on p5) but the first national lockdown began in late March 2020 when all non essential high street businesses were closed; people were ordered to stay home, permitted to leave for essential purposes only such as buying food or medical reasons. From 13th May there was some relaxation of these rules with people being permitted to leave the house for outdoor recreation. On 1st June you were allowed into other peoples' houses but not overnight. People were permitted to meet outside in groups of up to 6 people.
To be honest the details of how severe lockdown was in that period had faded somewhat in my memory, possibly because, like Downing Street Staff, I was classified as an "essential worker" who was allowed to go to work (although I very rarely did during that time).
I am really not that clear what is being investigated here. Invites to 100 people to attend even a work related event, with alcohol, in a garden, is so far out of this that its hard to know where to start. The only relevant questions are (a) Did Boris authorise this and (b) even if that cannot be established did he condone it by, for example, turning up?
Where we go from there is unclear but Boris's obfuscation has really not helped. If he had held his hands up to either (a) or (b) or both with a mea culpa then it would not have been good but it would probably have been survivable. Lying about it and being found out is very probably not. I fear, because it has gone beyond tedious, that this will be yet another example where the cover up did more damage that the original error.2 -
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
21m
Have yet to find a Tory MP, Minister or Cabinet Minister who thinks Boris’s position is defensible or survivable.
0 -
Michael Ellisrottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
21m
Have yet to find a Tory MP, Minister or Cabinet Minister who thinks Boris’s position is defensible or survivable.0 -
That Douglas Ross interview was a dagger in the chest from the Scottish Conservatives. Ruth Davidson walked Johnson down an unfriendly alley this morning, Ross delivered the stiletto on live tv just now.
https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/14809294147497738260 -
🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
The proportion who say that the govt. has 'let down' each of the following:
🇬🇧All adults
The public 86%
Those who've lost loved ones to covid 85%
NHS 83%
🌳2019 Con
The public 79%
Those who've lost loved ones to covid 77%
NHS 73%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480929618479792133/photo/10 -
Your dislike of Truss shining through and of course Boris should goHYUFD said:
As I said unless Labour are consistently 10%+ ahead there is no point replacing Boris. Especially as the membership might pick Truss over Sunak who would likely poll even worseRazedabode said:
The trend is only going up. You’re at risk of alienating 40% of your 2019 voting population and you think that’s good?HYUFD said:
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1480923563351760905
I just do not see how you can defend the indefensible but then you are either in denial or just blind in loyalty1 -
I guess that is your idea of a "no" to my generous offer 😞😞. I am so disappointed.malcolmg said:
I say again F*** off lowlife peddle your crap elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
PS: I know your life is pretty busy with all the anger management sessions and so on, but please let me know if you would like me to recommend a grammarian to help with your punctuation and inappropriate capitalisation. Always here to help! Love and kisses xxx0 -
Just partially cashed out on Johnson gone in 2022 so I am green on all dates. In September 2020 I backed him to be gone by end 2022 at 8/1 0
-
My bit on the latest bombshell Downing Street party revelation https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/britain-boris-johnson-lockdown-gathering-public0
-
I wonder who's going to get to enjoy Boris and Carrie's lovely wallpaper when they're out on their arses?
4 -
Your point is caller , other than some random crap jpg that is not real.Farooq said:
two_spidermen_pointing_at_each_other.jpgmalcolmg said:
Yes Taz, he is a real pain in the butt, not interested in discussion , just constantly insulting me , very tedious. I keep thinking I should ignore it which is the sensible thing to do but at times I just have to say something. Obviously not a very nice person , fine having banter back and forward but he is just a pest.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
0 -
He went straight from the chamber to the nearest club to get absolutely shitfaced in order to forget what he just had to do for the good of a crumbling regime.Scott_xP said:
Michael Ellisrottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
21m
Have yet to find a Tory MP, Minister or Cabinet Minister who thinks Boris’s position is defensible or survivable.0 -
It's referred to as a village and apparently regarded as one. "Not really a village" does not really cut the mustard, I'm afraid.HYUFD said:
Herrington is part of the Metropolitan city of Sunderland, not really a village.Andy_Cooke said:
Note that only one of the names he cites has to be a village for your statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" to be wrong.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Shiney Row, Newbottle, and New Herrington seem to be villages indeed.
Therefore the statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" is wrong.
It does not have its own parish council for starters
Crucially, though, I refer to: Note that only one of the names he cites has to be a village for your statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" to be wrong.
I appear to have missed your addressing the other villages. Because if they exist, then they are not non-existent.0 -
Sounding a bit like Lenin there, HYUFD, with his constant purity purges of the party.HYUFD said:
It is a good way for identifying the genuine true Tories though.david_herdson said:
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
In election terms however if Boris comes out of this with the Tories 10%+ behind then he would be in trouble but only if that occurs2 -
We know Truss polls worse, Opinium had a Truss led Tories 16% behind Starmer LabourBig_G_NorthWales said:
Your dislike of Truss shining through and of course Boris should goHYUFD said:
As I said unless Labour are consistently 10%+ ahead there is no point replacing Boris. Especially as the membership might pick Truss over Sunak who would likely poll even worseRazedabode said:
The trend is only going up. You’re at risk of alienating 40% of your 2019 voting population and you think that’s good?HYUFD said:
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1480923563351760905
I just do not see how you can defend the indefensible but then you are either in denial or just blind in loyalty0 -
It wasn't so much Iraq - I first saw this when I talked to some New Labour involved lawyers about the suppressions of protests when the Chinese Premier visited.Farooq said:
I've often been intrigued by the illegality claim of the Iraq war. I wonder, if it were illegal, who is culpable? Blair, as leader, clearly is in the buck-stopping position, but surely it's not just him? What about the MPs who voted for it, and the defence bods and civil servants who drew up the dossiers and legislation and implemented the decisions?Malmesbury said:
Indeed. The main thing I remember was that Blair & Co. were big on the idea that -Farooq said:
I prefer to see it as an accumulation of problems. The preceding government with the Conservatives in charge left the pile bigger than they found it. Labour did likewise. None of this is really controversial in any way. The only things that's controversial... no, stupid, in fact... is any sense that Blair arrived and there was an "onset of rot". Sleaze was literally the major (pun accidental) theme of the 97 election, and the public gave the Conservatives a kicking, in part because of sleaze.Malmesbury said:
I would think it fair to say that Blair represented part of a downward slope. The serial resignations of Mandleson were quite something.Farooq said:
I mean, did you miss the bit earlier about where I said I protested against the Iraq war? And how I was mocked despite being right?moonshine said:
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.Farooq said:
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair.moonshine said:
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.Farooq said:
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.moonshine said:
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).TimS said:
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
I have no time for Blair, none at all, and I've never voted for him or his party. But the idea that Blair suddenly heralded a drop in political standards is one that can only really exist in total ignorance of what came immediately beforehand. That's just how things are. Does that mean Blair and Labour were shiny and fault-free? No. But that wasn't the charge. If you want to shift the goalposts to that, then that's a welcome correction from idiotic wrongness to fair comment. I'm happy to have helped you with that.
You don't have to be a Blair fan or Labour voter to remember this, you just needed to have been there.
1) Something considered to be legal. Sort of. If you squinted and turned your head just so.
2) Therefore it was legal.
3) Since it was legal, they were practically obligated to do it.
I'm a layman when it comes to law and I'd love to know who is theoretically on the hook for the sort of crime of waging a war of aggression and anything else that's been alleged.
Though the above attitude is related to that of those who try to use Law (in the sense of various forms of "rights") to construct a constitution without the messy annoyance of trying to get it past the citizenry.
Which was similar to the idea that it was possible to create a War Powers Act without all that bother of getting a law passed.0 -
IKAAAARA!TimT said:
Sounding a bit like Lenin there, HYUFD, with his constant purity purges of the party.HYUFD said:
It is a good way for identifying the genuine true Tories though.david_herdson said:
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
In election terms however if Boris comes out of this with the Tories 10%+ behind then he would be in trouble but only if that occurs0 -
Asked about the No10 partygate row @BrandonLewis says he understands the “anger, frustration even upset that people will feel” but insists Sue Gray must be given the time to carry out her investigation.
“Does the PM still have your confidence?”
“Absolutely” he replies https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1480893541379457037/photo/1
Tory MP Michael Fabricant says the understanding was that the alleged No 10 garden party was "not spreading the disease because these were people already working closely together".
https://trib.al/WNMUMLX
📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1480930265530777603/video/10 -
Their key weaknesses being that the first I heard about VAT on energy being a key brexit argument is now almost 6 years later. It might not have super cut through.GIN1138 said:
Might be a lousy idea to address the problem but it's good politics.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh dear, just when you think Labour might be edging towards becoming a credible government-in-waiting again, they blow all that credibility on this utterly daft idea of cutting VAT on fuel - just about the most inefficient measure anyone could come up with to address the problem.
1. It hoists Boris and the Tory Brexiteers by their own putard after it was one of the key pledges they made as to why Brexit was a good idea.
2. It signals to the Red Wall that Labour in general and Starmer in particular have fundamentally accepted Brexit.
3. VAT on fuel has always been a controversial and hated tax from the day it was announced in Lamont's 1993 budget and very much coincided with John Major's government imploding... Not the only reason of course but the optics of that particular tax always looked dreadful after the recession and Major's ERM fiasco.
Secondly the energy Minster who brought in huge green taxes on fuel is now shadow minister. I imagine the Tory researchers are digging out all the quotes to throw back at him
Personally I feel the Starmer needs to call Boris a liar at PMQs. I would like it in the form of the dead parrot sketch. A list of euphemisms that he could use to show that he could stay within the bounds of parliamentary language. Then he should say the British people want a straight answer - why is Boris lying?
Once ejected he should have a clear afternoon to trawl around the studios saying that the Pm and his cronies break serious rules that most people followed - why should be follow insignificant rules and not call it like it is.
He'd be 10 points up the weekend.2 -
Funny that. They must have known about this before it became public. It didn't seem to bother them before. Any future PM candidate has questions to answer about what they knew and what they did (or didn't) do about it.rottenborough said:(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
21m
Have yet to find a Tory MP, Minister or Cabinet Minister who thinks Boris’s position is defensible or survivable.0 -
However. Ends with a point of brutal seriousness,Farooq said:
"smirking fibreglass toby jug"Scott_xP said:My bit on the latest bombshell Downing Street party revelation https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/britain-boris-johnson-lockdown-gathering-public
Where Ian Dunt excels, Marina Hyde exceeds. Magnificent.
"How can we counter some people’s conviction that “The Man” is lying to them, when the man is so often shown to be lying?"
Quite.1 -
That's the second time you've got excited about obsolescent antisubmarine weaponry of late. *puzzled*Malmesbury said:
IKAAAARA!TimT said:
Sounding a bit like Lenin there, HYUFD, with his constant purity purges of the party.HYUFD said:
It is a good way for identifying the genuine true Tories though.david_herdson said:
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
In election terms however if Boris comes out of this with the Tories 10%+ behind then he would be in trouble but only if that occurs0 -
I believe it was something about turnips.OldKingCole said:
Have you two fallen out over something?Nigel_Foremain said:
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
2 -
My Dad's village successful voted to abolish its Parish Council. What is it now? Do we have to think of a new name for it?HYUFD said:
Herrington is part of the Metropolitan city of Sunderland, not really a village.Andy_Cooke said:
Note that only one of the names he cites has to be a village for your statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" to be wrong.HYUFD said:
Houghton is a town not a villageRochdalePioneers said:
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?HYUFD said:
There are no villages in any Sunderland seateek said:
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).HYUFD said:
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in SunderlandGallowgate said:
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.HYUFD said:
Every MP in Sunderland is already LabourRochdalePioneers said:
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.dixiedean said:Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
Shiney Row, Newbottle, and New Herrington seem to be villages indeed.
Therefore the statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" is wrong.
It does not have its own parish council for starters0 -
Sorry, don't get the IKAAAARA reference. Pray enlighten.Malmesbury said:
IKAAAARA!TimT said:
Sounding a bit like Lenin there, HYUFD, with his constant purity purges of the party.HYUFD said:
It is a good way for identifying the genuine true Tories though.david_herdson said:
Yes. But then keeping half the Tory vote on board is not an election-winning strategy,HYUFD said:
So most even of 2019 Tory voters want him to stayScott_xP said:🚨NEW SNAP POLL🚨
Should Boris Johnson resign over BYOB partygate?
🇬🇧All adults
Should 66%
Should not 24%
🌳2019 Con
Should 42%
Should not 45%
🌹2019 Lab
Should 85%
Should not 10%
1,040 UK adults, 11th Jan 2022 https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1480922753867911179/photo/1
In election terms however if Boris comes out of this with the Tories 10%+ behind then he would be in trouble but only if that occurs0 -
Matthew Parris's article on Saturday made this comparison but also stressed a crucial difference. DLG and BJ both supreme conmen but DLG had some compensating qualities. BJ is *only* a conman. There's nothing else there.TheScreamingEagles said:
He's no David Lloyd George, actually I have a piece coming up soon that actually says Boris Johnson is the new David Lloyd George.kinabalu said:
Blair might have shifted it but Johnson has taken it out and moved it to another building.moonshine said:
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.JosiasJessop said:
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.Roger said:
Silly non sequiturJosiasJessop said:
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.Nigelb said:
It is one thing to have a PM who lies.Sandpit said:
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.IanB2 said:
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rulesrottenborough said:
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.RochdalePioneers said:Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.0 -
The main Conservative objection seems not to be on the substance, but that they hadn't thought of it first Labour are using it as a device to sieze the order paper.Richard_Nabavi said:Oh dear, just when you think Labour might be edging towards becoming a credible government-in-waiting again, they blow all that credibility on this utterly daft idea of cutting VAT on fuel - just about the most inefficient measure anyone could come up with to address the problem.
1 -
Won't somebody think of Graham Brady's health.....he is going to do a hernia trying to lift his mail sack.2
-
Hehe. I just dislike rude bullies, and I know, it is a paradox to treat him the same way, but c'est la vie. He is thoroughly obnoxious to anyone that disagrees with him that I like giving him a massive dose of his own medicine, which of course, he gets a bit cross about and then launches one of his tirades of abuse. I know I shouldn't find it funny, but I do. Father forgive me.OldKingCole said:
Have you two fallen out over something?Nigel_Foremain said:
I haven't "stalked" you, you absurd, rude and unpleasant little toad. What did I lie about, or is that just another knee-jerk response from the biggest jerk on PB? I take the piss out of you not just because you are an ignorant fool, but because you are an exceptionally obnoxious one. You think abuse is a form of debate. I have regularly seen you attempt to bully others you disagree with on here with your child like abuse. I'll offer you a deal; quit being an obnoxious arse and I will quit taking the rise out of you. Have a lovely day.malcolmg said:
You are lying piece of crap. Stick to sucking others butt's on here it suits you better. People see you for what you are stalker.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.Taz said:
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.malcolmg said:
F*** off and keep doing it scumbagNigel_Foremain said:
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂malcolmg said:
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in SuccesssionFarooq said:
Can you narrow it down slightly?malcolmg said:
I meant in the cabinetTheScreamingEagles said:
Roman.malcolmg said:
who is the creepy pervert onemaaarsh said:
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.StuartDickson said:Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
0 -
I mean not everything is about poll numbers and winning elections, What about probity in public office? What about lying to Parliament?HYUFD said:
We know Truss polls worse, Opinium had a Truss led Tories 16% behind Starmer LabourBig_G_NorthWales said:
Your dislike of Truss shining through and of course Boris should goHYUFD said:
As I said unless Labour are consistently 10%+ ahead there is no point replacing Boris. Especially as the membership might pick Truss over Sunak who would likely poll even worseRazedabode said:
The trend is only going up. You’re at risk of alienating 40% of your 2019 voting population and you think that’s good?HYUFD said:
More Conservative voters, even 2019 Conservative voters, do not think Boris should resign than think he should thenScott_xP said:Oh my - new polling from @SavantaComRes on BYOBgate:
- 66% say Boris Johnson should resign following latest revelations - +12 since their last poll at Christmas
- That includes 42% of 2019 Conservative voters (+9)
- https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1480923563351760905
I just do not see how you can defend the indefensible but then you are either in denial or just blind in loyalty
Boris Johnson's behaviour is inexcusable and disgraceful. He and his Downing St. operation have taken the piss out of not only the British public but all those that have suffered loss and grief through this pandemic.
Whoever replaces Johnson and whether they are popular with the public or any good at governing is a matter for another day. The starting position is that Boris Johnson is a disgrace to the country and should either resign on his own terms or be removed from office by the Party!4
This discussion has been closed.