The Red Walls are crumbling. MP for Sunderland thinks he has to go. Laura K is pessimistic. If you put your faith in the Riff Raff instead of the tried and trusted Bullingdon Boys what can you expect. Where's that Johnny from Richmond....Goldsmith!
Things are so bad, I'm hearing that Boris Johnson will announce that on the 20th of May 2020 he was not at the Downing Street party but in fact at the Pizza Express of Woking.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
Those are the standards of authoritarian regimes, of a Putin or a Xi, not of parliamentary democracies.
It is an interesting point. Trump of course is the supreme champion at this. It seems it can be more damaging to evade than to lie particularly if you are expected to lie. Remember Paxman Vs Howard. Howard's refusal to answer the question did for him. He could easily have lied but at that time if he had done so the single lie would have been worse. Standards have dropped.
Things are so bad, I'm hearing that Boris Johnson will shortly announce that on the 20th of May 2020 he was not at the Downing Street party but in fact at the Pizza Express of Woking.
You know he is really in trouble when he tells the nation due to a rare condition he can't actually sweat.....
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
Crowds back in Scotland at sport from next week after the winter break in the Scottish League ends.
Drakeford out on his own now. Absolutely disgraceful that this farce continues.
Especially as the Scots have admitted closing nightclubs and stadia has had negligible impact on the infection rate.
As predicted, Nicola got what she wanted from being a bit different when it didn't really matter, now quietly moving towards the UK government policy.
I wonder how long it will take the parish councillor in Wales to climb down. He's dimwitted enough to believe that these "protections" actually make a difference so it could be a while. In fact I could see a situation where it goes like the Netherlands and they quickly ramp up restrictions in Wales because whatever they have isn't working.
Nicola’s people got spooked by the idea of the rugby team playing in Newcastle, and how bad it would look for her.
Let’s see how long it takes for Drakeford to realise the same, and that the WRU won’t be volunteering to play in an empty Cardiff Arms Park - when they can play at Wembley, Villa Park, Anfield, Old Trafford or many other stadia in England.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
At the time I believe there was a general feeling that you were unlikely to catch Covid twice, so Johnson probably wasn't too worried for himself.
Not that it's really relevant to this piss up but it's probably true that you're unlikely to catch the same variant twice.
The Tory party should get rid of this lying, lazy, incompetent fool, if they dont they deserve to be in opposition for a very long time, I always thought that the election after next, would see the anything but tory party elected, but just maybe it might come earlier
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
Things are so bad, I'm hearing that Boris Johnson will shortly announce that on the 20th of May 2020 he was not at the Downing Street party but in fact at the Pizza Express of Woking.
You know he is really in trouble when he tells the nation due to a rare condition he can't actually sweat.....
Sadly I know Boris Johnson swears a lot.
Edit - I once saw him jogging and he stank, I've known tramps who smell better.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
Well most of Downing Street had Covid-19 by that point, I think some of them felt immortal and at the time there were hopes that a Covid-19 infection gave you immunity.
Immunity from prosecution is what some may now be hoping.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
At the time of these parties, Sue Gray was living in Northern Ireland on longterm secondment to the NI civil service. Well out of the No 10 clique. That is all publicly verifiable information.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
The 45 minute claim was based on a partial reading of intelligence reports about something over which Blair had no personal first hand knowledge. Johnson's lie is about something where he categorically knows the truth of the matter, as it pertains to his own behaviour. You could argue that the 45 minute claim had more serious consequences, but in terms of being a blatant untruth it comes nowhere close to Johnson's output.
It was pretty obvious that someone who could manipulate the country into leaving the EU against all sensible advice would have the ability to remove a PM that he loathed.
A knighthood for Cummings please.
Dom, Paterson - it's ironic that all Boris's worse debacles stem from his connections to the Brexit crowd. Tory euro-scepticism claims yet another PM scalp.
The 'Brexit Crowd' is the WHOLE current Tory Party. In my lifetime I've never known such a bunch of wankers in a government.
Crowds back in Scotland at sport from next week after the winter break in the Scottish League ends.
Drakeford out on his own now. Absolutely disgraceful that this farce continues.
Especially as the Scots have admitted closing nightclubs and stadia has had negligible impact on the infection rate.
As predicted, Nicola got what she wanted from being a bit different when it didn't really matter, now quietly moving towards the UK government policy.
I wonder how long it will take the parish councillor in Wales to climb down. He's dimwitted enough to believe that these "protections" actually make a difference so it could be a while. In fact I could see a situation where it goes like the Netherlands and they quickly ramp up restrictions in Wales because whatever they have isn't working.
According to this forum, The Drake has changed the measure of cases, so it looks like a sharp fall. Any credence to that?
Good news that Sturgeon has binned the sporting restrictions. Fair play to her.
Talk about putting the boot in.....even Big-G will struggle to find something to distract from this! They've even dragged up tearful brides who had to call their wedding off.
They’re constantly dragging up someone or other with a sob story. Sad as they maybe. They also drag up the Covid for Justice lot too. I just wonder if there is going to be more than a little fatigue in this story.
Yes. It's like when people (ie Polly, the Daily Mirror) get outraged when the PM flies to meet POTUS in a European capital and doesn't use EasyJet.
Why is she dressed like the High Priestess in a Hammer horror?
And it only cost 700 quid...
Ah the misogynistic ugliness of attacking the wife of a politician for her choice of dress. A tradition of prats going back to the French Revolution.
Of course no-one ever attacked Boris or Corbyn over their clothes or the state of their hair.
The politicians themselves are fair game.
True, and Carrie is not exactly like Philip May or Norma Major, keeping well out of things, is she?
A problem which is becoming increasingly evident, in the PM’s inability to find a new Cummings.
He desparately needs someone to tell him when he’s being an idiot, but no-one wants to work as the top dog there with Carrie hanging around.
Is where you're wrong. Every fucker is telling him he is being an idiot.
Yeah but the PM rates his cock as more important than the views of other people. If he stops doing what Carrie wants then how does he get laid? It's not as if he can quietly find some, err, violin player to shag on the side.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
It was a large contributor to effectively, if belatedly finishing off Labour as a party of government for a decade, and his version of New Labour to this day. And he is still held in contempt by many of those who until then enthusiastically supported him.
And in any event, it was far from clear to everyone at the time that he was lying, however many suspected it.
Boris is just lying to your face knowing that you know.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
Talk about putting the boot in.....even Big-G will struggle to find something to distract from this! They've even dragged up tearful brides who had to call their wedding off.
They’re constantly dragging up someone or other with a sob story. Sad as they maybe. They also drag up the Covid for Justice lot too. I just wonder if there is going to be more than a little fatigue in this story.
The ignoble history of DFS sales would suggest not.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
That reminds me of a camping trip to Loch Ness. Pitched up next to us was what can only be described as the worlds tiniest caravan, 6 guys and girls had driven all the way from Bulgaria. Although they had 2 cars, only this one caravan, no tent, that they all slept in every night. It was like some magic trick watching them disappear into and reappear.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
And you're saying the Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association is...?
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
Unless you have voted for Welsh Nationalist candidates who will sit in opposition to Tory councillors you are not a proper Tory.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
Unless you have voted for Welsh Nationalist candidates who will sit in opposition to Tory councillors you are not a proper Tory.
Be fair to be HYUFD, he did his best to stop the BNP getting elected.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
It was a large contributor to effectively, if belatedly finished off Labour as a party of government for a decade, and his version of New Labour to this day. And he is still held in contempt by many of those who until then enthusiastically supported him.
And in any event, it was far from clear to everyone at the time that he was lying, however many suspected it.
Boris is just lying to your face knowing that you know.
I disagree with that. The 45 minute claim was in 2002; it was widely derided at the time, and defended by party loyalists on both sides. Blair went on to be PM for five years, and won an election in 2005 by a large, if reduced, majority.
The consequences of the Iraq debacle for the country were massive.
What did Blair in was Brown and the infighting within Labour.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
And you're saying the Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association is...?
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
And you're saying the Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association is...?
Not a Tory MP
That might be so but the pertinent question is how representative his view is among senior Conservatives, notably including the opinion formers in the Commons. You’re in a position to share better insight into that question than most here. What do you reckon?
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Labours worst outcome is Boris resigning or being replaced
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
At the time I believe there was a general feeling that you were unlikely to catch Covid twice, so Johnson probably wasn't too worried for himself.
He would almost certainly have been right at the time. Re-infection of the same strain was and likely still is quite rare. The re-infection we are seeing now is a new variant infecting people who had prior infections of original covid, or alpha or delta.
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Labours worst outcome is Boris resigning or being replaced
Not if he is replaced by Truss or Patel for example, then Labour will be heading for an outright majority
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Labours worst outcome is Boris resigning or being replaced
Not if he is replaced by Truss or Patel for example, then Labour will be heading for an outright majority
You don't know that, HY. It is based on a very flimsy piece of polling evidence that will be heavily biased by what little those polled know about the alternatives . Please stop talking in absolutes when there are none.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Let's not forget Theresa May running through the fields of wheat. Come on, there's plenty more activity in the Whatabout barrel for you to scrape up and throw around. It's like you're not even trying.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Labours worst outcome is Boris resigning or being replaced
Labour's best outcome, I think, is Boris being replaced by an ineffectual new leader who goes on to score very badly in the local elections. There are a few possible candidates. Then they will have taken their final pitstop before the end of the race. Time it wrongly, or mess it up, and Labour can move into an unassailable lead.
The most important thing Conservatives can do is read the mood music and apologise with a huge amount of contrition and humility - even on a forum such as this.
The worst thing they can do is try to pretend a legal and moral crime hasn't been committed and that the nation isn't deeply hurt, even furious.
I don't think they will. Because since 2016 and then 2019 they have made that fatal, fatal, political error of living in a land of hubris.
It's what brings them all down in the end, from left or right.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
Blair was closest to being caught over the peerages thing.
The literal explanation for not going ahead with prosecution was that it wasn't in the public interest, since every government did it.....
I'm pretty sure Johnson's not going to survive this. The catalyst will be the May local elections when I suspect the full fury of the British people will be unleashed on the Conservative Party.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
Labours worst outcome is Boris resigning or being replaced
Probably true - but saying that, the extent to which getting rid of Boris cures things is overstated. Other Tories will be tainted to some extent, and it's not entirely clear a Truss or Sunak can hold on to the same coalition. They'll have to take their own tricky decisions and watch the shine wear off when they annoy people with them. Neither are as shameless as Boris in lying - which may be a good thing for the country but may make things electorally more difficult when you can't bluster your way through failure and tell people completely contradictory things. E.g. Sunak will have to decide between fiscal responsibility, levelling up, repairing public services, and lower taxes. Popular as he is at the moment - I'm not sure he can claim black is white as well with a straight face.
From Labour's POV it's also far better he go sooner rather than later too as they'll have time to probe and pick at his replacement's weaknesses rather than the worst case which is that Boris goes, say, sumer next year and his replacement has the honeymoon and can legitimately hold an election during that period.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
I wouldn't normally go down this route but I suggest you put a sock in it. Stop coming out with this drivel.
Have some grace and humility, self-awareness and honesty.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
I'm a long-standing advocate for state funding of parties to remove the stench of donor cronyism. Which removes questionable finances of Unite as much as murky off-shore financiers. But if that isn't about to happen Labour will be able to find their own murky funds easier to come by now the loons are on their way.
And you may find yourself Drinking at a garden party And you may find yourself Enjoying cheese and wine And you may find yourself Saying you weren’t even there And we may ask ourselves Well how did we get here? https://twitter.com/RobinFlavell/status/1480798900537671683/photo/1
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
The thing is, Cummings also seems to be thinking like this, possibly knowing the way his former master's mind works, and I have a strong feeling that's why he keeps re-entering the stage just when it looks like Johnson is doing slightly better, such as the 2% bounce over not following the christmas restrictions pressure this week, for instance.
It also seemed to be an exactly similar moment before the last Cummings toffee surprise with the Allegra Stratton video, again. He was just recovering from earlier sleaze stories ; the nation's attention just beginning to turn back to Christmas and also how / whether to restrict with the pandemic ; etc.
If this is so, as I strongly suspect, Johnson will only carry on being cumulatively damaged, and as someone also mentioned the other day, possibly also only recovering from a lower and lower base.
I wonder how many people were prosecuted or at least cautioned for having parties in their gardens in the same time period?
your reminder that almost 2,000 people have been prosecuted at Westminster magistrates court for ignoring lockdowns, attending parties and breaking quarantine during this pandemic https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1480676080554065922
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
Or the unholy double... Putin invades Ukraine, and China invades Taiwan during the Olympics, with tens of thousands of foreign hostages guests.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.
who is the creepy pervert one
Roman.
I meant in the cabinet
Can you narrow it down slightly?
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in Successsion
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
To back you up on this, when my village got to over 11,000, it applied to/asked to become a town. Apparently there are many advantages to being a town as opposed to a village.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
The thing is, Cummings also seems to be thinking like this, possibly knowing the way his former master's mind works, and I have a strong feeling that's why he keeps re-entering the stage just when it looks like Johnson is doing a bit better, such as the 2% bounce over not following the christmas restrictions pressure this week, for instance.
It also seemed to be an exactly similar moment before the last Cummings toffee surprise with the Allegra Stratton video, for instance. He was just recovering from earlier sleaze stories ; the nation's attention just beginning to turn back to Christmas and also how / whether to restrict with the pandemic ; etc.
If this is so, as I strongly suspect, Johnson will only carry on being cumulatively damaged, and as someone also mentioned the other day, possibly only recovering from a lower and lower base.
On the assumption that all the leaks and revelations are coming from one source, it is certainly a masterclass in how to bring someone down - which does of course assume that it works and/or there’s a final bullet polished and ready to fire at the perfect moment…
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
The thing is, Cummings also seems to be thinking like this, possibly knowing the way his former master's mind works, and I have a strong feeling that's why he keeps re-entering the stage just when it looks like Johnson is doing a bit better, such as the 2% bounce over not following the christmas restrictions pressure this week .
It also seemed to be an almost exactly similar moment before the last Cummings toffee surprise with the Allegra Stratton video, for instance. He was just recovering from earlier sleaze stories ; the nation's attention just beginning to turn back to Christmas and also how / whether to restrict with the pandemic ; etc.
If this is so, as I strongly suspect, Johnson will only carry on being cumulatively damaged, and as someone also mentioned the other day, possibly only recovering from a lower and lower base.
Still no full on smoking gun though is there. The govt will be playing an extreme form of expectations management if he makes it as far as the locals, you wonder how badly he’d need to do before he’s handed the whisky and revolver.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Newbottle has been a village there for nearly a thousand years.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
That reminds me of a camping trip to Loch Ness. Pitched up next to us was what can only be described as the worlds tiniest caravan, 6 guys and girls had driven all the way from Bulgaria. Although they had 2 cars, only this one caravan, no tent, that they all slept in every night. It was like some magic trick watching them disappear into and reappear.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
To back you up on this, when my village got to over 11,000, it applied to/asked to become a town. Apparently there are many advantages to being a town as opposed to a village.
30,000 is one heck of a big village.
Its not that big. "Houghton-le-Spring" as a postal address is that big. But that includes all the neighbouring places as well.
Point is that HYUFD said "no villages in Sunderland". But there are. Newbottle - counted as Houghton - is a village without any argument over definitions of town vs village. Ryhope another one over in Sunderland Central. To name a couple.
What experience does HYUFD have of the pit villages in the former Durham coalfield? Has he lived there? Has he even been there?
Comments
If you put your faith in the Riff Raff instead of the tried and trusted Bullingdon Boys what can you expect. Where's that Johnny from Richmond....Goldsmith!
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Let’s see how long it takes for Drakeford to realise the same, and that the WRU won’t be volunteering to play in an empty Cardiff Arms Park - when they can play at Wembley, Villa Park, Anfield, Old Trafford or many other stadia in England.
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15980942/oex-bobcat-1-person-tent-15980942/?istCompanyId=c2ec8a5d-93c1-4850-a97a-f4d89d7c99c8&istFeedId=caf85954-1122-4d0b-81df-b8aba2f58e49&istItemId=irtmlqplq&istBid=t&msclkid=812875d62a221ad90c21140ba31979f7&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=*NEW - #2 - OEX - [GS]&utm_term=4581802396561292&utm_content=OEX - Tents - [E]&gclid=812875d62a221ad90c21140ba31979f7&gclsrc=3p.ds
Edit - I once saw him jogging and he stank, I've known tramps who smell better.
£150,000 starting salaries as firms fight for staff
A professional recruitment firm says it is placing graduate lawyers on starting salaries as high as £150,000 amid a shortage of workers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59949697
At the time of these parties, Sue Gray was living in Northern Ireland on longterm secondment to the NI civil service. Well out of the No 10 clique. That is all publicly verifiable information.
Random crap on Twitter ≠ journalism.
https://twitter.com/katemaltby/status/1480823895611559936?s=21
Good news that Sturgeon has binned the sporting restrictions. Fair play to her.
And in any event, it was far from clear to everyone at the time that he was lying, however many suspected it.
Boris is just lying to your face knowing that you know.
Theresa May: 1,106 days
Gordon Brown: 1,049 days
Boris Johnson: 902 days so far.
https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1480866984019562497?t=W9wsvmWQ-kA5Bw_HrPunfw&s=19
Local elections are 114 days away...
The consequences of the Iraq debacle for the country were massive.
What did Blair in was Brown and the infighting within Labour.
Whilst I accept that Boris Johnson previously won elections very successfully as both mayor and prospective PM, there comes a time when even the most successful leaders turn into liabilities. It happened to Margaret Thatcher and it happened to Tony Blair. We have now crossed that line for Boris Johnson.
If by some chance Conservative MPs don't realise this and they hang on to him then I suspect the Party in for an utter drubbing in 2024. But given everything else in the mix, it's moot whether even a fresh leader will now save them.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houghton-le-Spring
https://evolvepolitics.com/the-labour-party-is-on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy/
The worst thing they can do is try to pretend a legal and moral crime hasn't been committed and that the nation isn't deeply hurt, even furious.
I don't think they will. Because since 2016 and then 2019 they have made that fatal, fatal, political error of living in a land of hubris.
It's what brings them all down in the end, from left or right.
The literal explanation for not going ahead with prosecution was that it wasn't in the public interest, since every government did it.....
From Labour's POV it's also far better he go sooner rather than later too as they'll have time to probe and pick at his replacement's weaknesses rather than the worst case which is that Boris goes, say, sumer next year and his replacement has the honeymoon and can legitimately hold an election during that period.
Have some grace and humility, self-awareness and honesty.
Yep - the Labour Party can thank your mate Mr Corbyn for that.
Drinking at a garden party
And you may find yourself
Enjoying cheese and wine
And you may find yourself
Saying you weren’t even there
And we may ask ourselves
Well how did we get here? https://twitter.com/RobinFlavell/status/1480798900537671683/photo/1
It also seemed to be an exactly similar moment before the last Cummings toffee surprise with the Allegra Stratton video, again. He was just recovering from earlier sleaze stories ; the nation's attention just beginning to turn back to Christmas and also how / whether to restrict with the pandemic ; etc.
If this is so, as I strongly suspect, Johnson will only carry on being cumulatively damaged, and as someone also mentioned the other day, possibly also only recovering from a lower and lower base.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1480676080554065922
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
https://twitter.com/brian_bilston/status/1480862278027251716?s=20
30,000 is one heck of a big village.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
It's a village.
Point is that HYUFD said "no villages in Sunderland". But there are. Newbottle - counted as Houghton - is a village without any argument over definitions of town vs village. Ryhope another one over in Sunderland Central. To name a couple.
What experience does HYUFD have of the pit villages in the former Durham coalfield? Has he lived there? Has he even been there?