Johnson's just really stupid indeed isn't he. Its not like Cameron or May were paragons of moral virtue. But they're have known better than breaking their own rules at an event attended by dozens of people who might one day tell the press about it. https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1480631102985457668
@IanDunt 100% that. I once had to get some copy out of him and it became clear during the dribbled excuses & telephonic Lorem Ipsum that ensued that month that he had no object permanence. The brain area that helps most of us think about absent, potential or future things is… missing.
@IanDunt He would lie, and being told he was on speaker with me and my editor, would lie again, in the same way as a toddler will lie about not having the biscuit it has in its hand at that very moment. It was like trying to coach custard towards GCSE Maths.
@IanDunt The privilege has always meant that his polystyrene-packing level, stupidity was masked, excused, camouflaged. People thought, ‘He just doesn’t care, like Rochester!’ In fact, he just doesn’t know, like algae.
@IanDunt This, more than anything else, is why he is Britain Trump. Because the wealth and privilege people see is the poncey topiary in front of a near-bottomless chasm of wobbling, thought-free jelly. https://twitter.com/MattPotter/status/1480636605849346051
"The brain area that helps most of us think about absent, potential or future things is… missing."
His ADHD is part of the problem but not necessarily the core one. (and, btw, it is not lack of brain area, but a deficit of meaningful subconscious help in turning a stream of tasks and ideas into some kind of organisation that then merely needs to be proof read, rather than pieced together almost from scratch, in the conscious mind). The problem is that he has taken the stuff it approach to all that garbled mental input and chooses to live on flawed gut instinct and bluster, something his privilege made possible.
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
And there was I thinking Sunak couldn't get any shorter
Surely the likely candidates for a leadership election today are Sunak and Baker (the ERG mad fringe).
It won't be Baker - he's a behind the scenes operator, not a front man - but it will be someone from that faction.
I've put some money on McVey at 130/1 with the booster from Ladbrokes. Realise that will be seen as a joke but (1) she is from the ERG / anti-lockdown faction (2) has been a driver of the Blue Collar Tory agenda and faction, which helps with the RW MPs (3) she can point to having been in the Cabinet (regardless of record) and (4) we know she did at least want the job at some point. Yes, she was sh1t last time and maybe Lorraine Kelly will pipe in but that is priced in. She would also drive Labour nuts and, as a bonus, might create problems for Starmer (educated London barrister vs gobby scouser).
Christmas really would come early. For the SNP.
The SNP need the Tories to have most seats in a hung parliament to have any power over Starmer, if Labour win most seats or get a majority the SNP would be as powerless as they are with the Tories in power
Suggestions that if the police get interested, the Grey investigation might be paused (pending the Met eventually deciding to do nothing). So a route to the long grass appears....
Yep. This is screaming out to me. Someone brighter than Johnson has come up with a wheeze.
Could be next year before a criminal inquiry concludes.
Suddendly Dick will be in favour of police involvement once the call goes in from Downing Street.
Sue Grey needs to publish tonight.
I feel sick.
Don't feel sick. Its fairly simple. If Dibble start to investigate it is because of the self-evident evidence. Which someone* will leak in a publish and be damned poke at the "we can't talk now its sub judice" shield.
It won't wash. Will all be over before then. Dom is waiting for the government to twat about sufficiently before dumping the video footage of Boris laughing at how "socially distanced" they all are.
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
And there was I thinking Sunak couldn't get any shorter
Surely the likely candidates for a leadership election today are Sunak and Baker (the ERG mad fringe).
It won't be Baker - he's a behind the scenes operator, not a front man - but it will be someone from that faction.
I've put some money on McVey at 130/1 with the booster from Ladbrokes. Realise that will be seen as a joke but (1) she is from the ERG / anti-lockdown faction (2) has been a driver of the Blue Collar Tory agenda and faction, which helps with the RW MPs (3) she can point to having been in the Cabinet (regardless of record) and (4) we know she did at least want the job at some point. Yes, she was sh1t last time and maybe Lorraine Kelly will pipe in but that is priced in. She would also drive Labour nuts and, as a bonus, might create problems for Starmer (educated London barrister vs gobby scouser).
Harper has run before and clearly wants to run again.
Hasn't got the RW appeal. Here's the Blue Collar Conservative MPs list - McVey is the founder, Harper isn't even a member.
There are around 90 MPs on that list. Not all of them would support her of course but that's a decent chunk of the base and you have some vocal RW MPs on the leadership board (Rowley, Davidson, Bradley) who aren't shy at coming forwards. Get IDS giving support and that will help with another part of the base.
Do you think there are any other prospects?
Good question and I have been thinking that on the bets. I am also certain someone from that grouping will stand and they have the numbers but the other pushy ones (so Davidson etc) are too young. I put some covering money on Baker in case I am wrong but, as I said, I am not convinced and others have flagged about his seat. I can't see Brady standing and ditto on the seat. I can't think of other prospects.
If it does happen, I think the other candidate will be Javid. I don't think Sunak has the appeal amongst the MPs and to the RW in particular. Javid might and he would be a candidate that the "establishment" Tory MPs could gather around plus he would negate some of McVey's strengths, especially given his background. However, he is an ex-banker and (I have to be careful here) he worked at Deutsche....
Hasn't Brady said he's retiring at the next election? Could be wrong, but sure I read that.
I can't remember, it wouldn't surprise me. But I don't think he would run anyway.
Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.
It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.
Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.
This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"
As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.
If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.
The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.
The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
It's worth looking at the Bournemouth Beach on Google Earth aerial views. Those groynes are getting on for 200m apart. Those people are nothing like as close together as they appear.
I remember going to Formby beach back in May 2020. I posted a few photos on facebook. Friends were baffled that they appeared to show no-one but my family on the beach. It occurred to me that I probably could have taken a photo which made it look crowded if I'd zoomed right in on one group - but really it wasn't in the least bit crowded. I expect this was fairly typical. Those trying to whip up hysteria about crowding on the beaches are some of the minor villains of the whole affair.
The Downing St garden, looking at Google maps, is around 30,000 sq ft. That’s room for more than 3,000 people all sitting 6’ apart!
Even if I’m wrong by 50%, and it’s only 15,000 sq ft, that gives 100 people 150 sq ft each, about 25’ from each other.
And we are back on dodgy maths. If it were 300 x 100 ft, then you could array people 50 x 15, so 750, if its a simple grid. That may not be the best space filling model, but I struggle to get that to 3000.
Dodgy maths indeed, but not mine. To be 6’ from one another, a person needs to sit in the middle of 9 sq ft, 3’ x 3’. People 6’ apart can nearly touch their fingers if they stretch.
Either way, the garden is way bigger than required for a socially distanced event, for people who have spent the day working in close proximity to each other indoors.
I was working on a packing structure, buy maybe the grid is a poor choice? You've gone with the circles, but that will also leave some gaps - the circles have holes around them! This used to be a 1st yr chemistry practical.
And looking again - each person with a 3 ft radius occupies 3.141 x 3 x 3, about 28 square ft. So up to 1000, but that ignores the gaps...
No; each person needs to be in a circle of radius 3.3 feet - it's 2m social distancing remember. That is an area of 35 square feet per person. Then you need to work out the 2-d close packing of those circles touching, which would 'waste' some of the garden space. To a crude approximation you could put each person in a square of 2 x 2m which would be 44 sq feet per person. 681 people. So TT has it about right. But then there is no way to get at the drinkies or food. So you need to make sure each person can access an open lane to the food etc - and that has to be two-way, with passing places at least - but they are getting pissed, so make it two way. THat makes half as many. And deduct a bit for the garden walls, fountains, stachoo of Churchill, etc. We're getting down to 300-odd.
Hexagonal packing is the most efficient.
Area of a hexagon with side to side dimension of 2m is 3.46m2 or 37.3 sq feet.
I do wonder if Boris actually reads any of his emails though. Government by WhatsApp innit?
Is that 'garden' just a patch of lawn? Are there no flowering shrubs, trees, flower beds and so on? Must reduce the available standing space, surely.
If we're assuming that people can stand still in a hexagonal lattice for a party, I think we can assume that they can stand in a flower bed!
Have you considered stacking them vertically?
Presumably, if we give each guest sufficient negative electromagnetic charge (or positive, I'm not bothered) then they would naturally stay 3 feet apart, and when more were introduced into the garden than could fit in a horizontal lattice would naturally start to stack up vertically. We'd need some big rubber sheeting to stop them earthing. This would also protect the flower beds. Physicists may be able to refine this approach ( @Fysics_Teacher , are you there?)
Back in the good old days, Boris's hair did look like he'd had intimate relationships with a Van Der Graaf generator.
Bigging up Sue Grey's integrity and independence raises the stakes for her
A thought occurs to me that my expectation had been that Sue Gray is very canny so was there to defuse the bomb with a carefully worded report where some deputy heads roll but the leaders are essentially protected.
That is still my presumption, but I wonder if she is just tempted now to finish him on the basis that he is past the point of no return anyway? She'd potentially be preserving the system, and her own position, by making Johnson himself the scapegoat.
Has to be said, some of the backbench contributions are awful. Both Sultana and Lavery screeching on for Labour, and the MP for was it Stourbridge saying "nothing to see here, move along, level up and build back better".
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
And there was I thinking Sunak couldn't get any shorter
Surely the likely candidates for a leadership election today are Sunak and Baker (the ERG mad fringe).
It won't be Baker - he's a behind the scenes operator, not a front man - but it will be someone from that faction.
I've put some money on McVey at 130/1 with the booster from Ladbrokes. Realise that will be seen as a joke but (1) she is from the ERG / anti-lockdown faction (2) has been a driver of the Blue Collar Tory agenda and faction, which helps with the RW MPs (3) she can point to having been in the Cabinet (regardless of record) and (4) we know she did at least want the job at some point. Yes, she was sh1t last time and maybe Lorraine Kelly will pipe in but that is priced in. She would also drive Labour nuts and, as a bonus, might create problems for Starmer (educated London barrister vs gobby scouser).
I think you may be right. The assumption it will be a mainstream figure high in the Cabinet is strong on here. However. Someone from that faction has the numbers to make the 2. And might well win. Doubt it will be McVey mind. But 130/1 is a bloody decent shout.
PS if you do think that, and take the view that BJ goes this year and the next PM will therefore be his Tory successor, you can get her at 200/1 (250/1 with the booster) at Ladbrokes.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 21m Mood hardening amongst Tory MPs. Message I’m hearing a lot is “we’ll let him draw a line under Omicron, Then he’s gone”.
They're still in the mode of finding excuses not to push him off now. You can always find an excuse if you don't really want to go through with something.
When they really want to get rid of him then they'll do it, regardless of what else is happening. Wasn't Thatcher deposed in between Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the war to push them out again, while British troops were being deployed to the Gulf ready for combat?
You have to hand it to this government. The stupidity of believing that "Sue Gray is investigating [snigger] and we won't comment further" will hold is bonkers.
Was the PM there or not? Was he a recipient of the email or not? Did he know the email had been sent or not? You do not need an investigation for that.
Same with the flat makeover. These type of 'investigations' often seem like exercises in delay & obfuscation designed to allow Boris Johnson to avoid giving straight lies to straight questions about perfectly simple things. You get senior civil servants doing them too. In their position I think I'd consider myself misused.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
The Paymaster General keeps saying we need to wait for the investigation as if there is murk to peer into. This one is black and white.
It is black and white to us. I think the people behind this (and not just the Tory politicians) had somehow convinced themselves that a socially distant event in the garden was somehow ok, as they were all working (a) hard (b) together in the same building. That it was not right seems to have slipped by them. And so Johnson knew exactly what had gone on, but could stick to the line of all rules were complied with (i.e. 2m distancing, outside etc) but of course thats just bullshit.
Suggestions that if the police get interested, the Grey investigation might be paused (pending the Met eventually deciding to do nothing). So a route to the long grass appears....
Yep. This is screaming out to me. Someone brighter than Johnson has come up with a wheeze.
Could be next year before a criminal inquiry concludes.
Suddendly Dick will be in favour of police involvement once the call goes in from Downing Street.
Sue Grey needs to publish tonight.
I feel sick.
Don't feel sick. Its fairly simple. If Dibble start to investigate it is because of the self-evident evidence. Which someone* will leak in a publish and be damned poke at the "we can't talk now its sub judice" shield.
It won't wash. Will all be over before then. Dom is waiting for the government to twat about sufficiently before dumping the video footage of Boris laughing at how "socially distanced" they all are.
I fecking hope so. Although there's part of me would like Johnson's demise to be drawn out over a number of agonising (for him) months before the 1922 do the final deed.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Actually, no, not necessarily. For a start PMs (or at least ministers) are not infrequently found to have broken the law in judicial review cases. In terms of personal behaviour, it would be extremely embarrassing but not necessarily a resigning matter to be found to have committed a driving offence, or failure to comply with some legal deadline.
But this should be a resigning offence, as one Matt Hancock might ruefully point out.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
I thought that the regulations did not apply to No 10. At least that's what I recall from the discussion of the photo.
Supposedly the feds are now investigating. They wouldn't be doing that - or allowing it to be known that they are doing so - if Downing Street was exempt.
The Paymaster General keeps saying we need to wait for the investigation as if there is murk to peer into. This one is black and white.
It is black and white to us. I think the people behind this (and not just the Tory politicians) had somehow convinced themselves that a socially distant event in the garden was somehow ok, as they were all working (a) hard (b) together in the same building. That it was not right seems to have slipped by them. And so Johnson knew exactly what had gone on, but could stick to the line of all rules were complied with (i.e. 2m distancing, outside etc) but of course thats just bullshit.
The rule was crystal clear. You can meet ONE other person at 2m distance in an outdoor setting.
So - are they going to claim that everyone at this massive knees up only interacted with exactly one other person who was 2m away?
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
Suggestions that if the police get interested, the Grey investigation might be paused (pending the Met eventually deciding to do nothing). So a route to the long grass appears....
Yep. This is screaming out to me. Someone brighter than Johnson has come up with a wheeze.
Could be next year before a criminal inquiry concludes.
Suddendly Dick will be in favour of police involvement once the call goes in from Downing Street.
Sue Grey needs to publish tonight.
I feel sick.
Don't feel sick. Its fairly simple. If Dibble start to investigate it is because of the self-evident evidence. Which someone* will leak in a publish and be damned poke at the "we can't talk now its sub judice" shield.
It won't wash. Will all be over before then. Dom is waiting for the government to twat about sufficiently before dumping the video footage of Boris laughing at how "socially distanced" they all are.
I fecking hope so. Although there's part of me would like Johnson's demise to be drawn out over a number of agonising (for him) months before the 1922 do the final deed.
It is being drawn out. This is beautiful agony, drip drip drip, a thousand cuts, left endlessly edged. A few on here tried to excuse the previous drips with "why has this only come out now?" Well thats the whole point. Dump the info en masse and there is a brief furore and then the news agenda moves on.
Cummings and Sunak and I assume Gove are playing this perfectly.
The Paymaster General keeps saying we need to wait for the investigation as if there is murk to peer into. This one is black and white.
It is black and white to us. I think the people behind this (and not just the Tory politicians) had somehow convinced themselves that a socially distant event in the garden was somehow ok, as they were all working (a) hard (b) together in the same building. That it was not right seems to have slipped by them. And so Johnson knew exactly what had gone on, but could stick to the line of all rules were complied with (i.e. 2m distancing, outside etc) but of course thats just bullshit.
The rule was crystal clear. You can meet ONE other person at 2m distance in an outdoor setting.
So - are they going to claim that everyone at this massive knees up only interacted with exactly one other person who was 2m away?
Dear God. They are aren't they?
As I say - I think they convinced themselves it was ok. Now to us its clear now and would have been then that it was NOT ok. But I can see their train of 'thought'.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 21m Mood hardening amongst Tory MPs. Message I’m hearing a lot is “we’ll let him draw a line under Omicron, Then he’s gone”.
They're still in the mode of finding excuses not to push him off now. You can always find an excuse if you don't really want to go through with something.
When they really want to get rid of him then they'll do it, regardless of what else is happening. Wasn't Thatcher deposed in between Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the war to push them out again, while British troops were being deployed to the Gulf ready for combat?
I think this is right. Forget all the "unfit to be PM" stuff, that's hardly shock horror, they'll move to ditch him if & when it becomes clear that they need to in order to save their ski ... seats.
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
And there was I thinking Sunak couldn't get any shorter
Surely the likely candidates for a leadership election today are Sunak and Baker (the ERG mad fringe).
It won't be Baker - he's a behind the scenes operator, not a front man - but it will be someone from that faction.
I've put some money on McVey at 130/1 with the booster from Ladbrokes. Realise that will be seen as a joke but (1) she is from the ERG / anti-lockdown faction (2) has been a driver of the Blue Collar Tory agenda and faction, which helps with the RW MPs (3) she can point to having been in the Cabinet (regardless of record) and (4) we know she did at least want the job at some point. Yes, she was sh1t last time and maybe Lorraine Kelly will pipe in but that is priced in. She would also drive Labour nuts and, as a bonus, might create problems for Starmer (educated London barrister vs gobby scouser).
Harper has run before and clearly wants to run again.
Hasn't got the RW appeal. Here's the Blue Collar Conservative MPs list - McVey is the founder, Harper isn't even a member.
There are around 90 MPs on that list. Not all of them would support her of course but that's a decent chunk of the base and you have some vocal RW MPs on the leadership board (Rowley, Davidson, Bradley) who aren't shy at coming forwards. Get IDS giving support and that will help with another part of the base.
Do you think there are any other prospects?
Good question and I have been thinking that on the bets. I am also certain someone from that grouping will stand and they have the numbers but the other pushy ones (so Davidson etc) are too young. I put some covering money on Baker in case I am wrong but, as I said, I am not convinced and others have flagged about his seat. I can't see Brady standing and ditto on the seat. I can't think of other prospects.
If it does happen, I think the other candidate will be Javid. I don't think Sunak has the appeal amongst the MPs and to the RW in particular. Javid might and he would be a candidate that the "establishment" Tory MPs could gather around plus he would negate some of McVey's strengths, especially given his background. However, he is an ex-banker and (I have to be careful here) he worked at Deutsche....
Hasn't Brady said he's retiring at the next election? Could be wrong, but sure I read that.
I'd not seen that but don't think it'd rule him out. His whole pitch is "reluctant though I am, I will make this sacrifice for the good of the country". Can't see it working for him as it didn't in 2019, but retirement plans aren't immovable.
Remember that David Lidington was briefly touted as a May successor, and I believe that was after he'd indicated he did not intend to stand at the next election (and didn't in the end).
Ricky Dicky Ding Dong Burgon also uses the word liar. Am amazed he can spell it but what a pity that his question was a petulant pointless rant like everything else he says.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
I thought that the regulations did not apply to No 10. At least that's what I recall from the discussion of the photo.
Supposedly the feds are now investigating. They wouldn't be doing that - or allowing it to be known that they are doing so - if Downing Street was exempt.
No. That is precisely why they are offloading this to the Met. Technically no laws were broken.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
I thought that the regulations did not apply to No 10. At least that's what I recall from the discussion of the photo.
Supposedly the feds are now investigating. They wouldn't be doing that - or allowing it to be known that they are doing so - if Downing Street was exempt.
No. That is precisely why they are offloading this to the Met. Technically no laws were broken.
It may (also) suit some of the PM's Tory opponents for the inquiry to be delayed closer to when they feel ready to do the necessary deed
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
Will Starmer be back tomorrow after his positive diagnosis last week?
Talk about putting the boot in.....even Big-G will struggle to find something to distract from this! They've even dragged up tearful brides who had to call their wedding off.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
I thought that the regulations did not apply to No 10. At least that's what I recall from the discussion of the photo.
Supposedly the feds are now investigating. They wouldn't be doing that - or allowing it to be known that they are doing so - if Downing Street was exempt.
No. That is precisely why they are offloading this to the Met. Technically no laws were broken.
OK. Lets play the scenario out and find that is technically correct. It is found that although the PM was partying whilst he and his ministers were saying no partying, the letter of the law lets him off.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
I thought that the regulations did not apply to No 10. At least that's what I recall from the discussion of the photo.
Supposedly the feds are now investigating. They wouldn't be doing that - or allowing it to be known that they are doing so - if Downing Street was exempt.
No. That is precisely why they are offloading this to the Met. Technically no laws were broken.
OK. Lets play the scenario out and find that is technically correct. It is found that although the PM was partying whilst he and his ministers were saying no partying, the letter of the law lets him off.
It was pretty obvious that someone who could manipulate the country into leaving the EU against all sensible advice would have the ability to remove a PM that he loathed.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Just catching up. Switched on Sky, lots of green leather on display. Excluding the chump at the pulpit, have any of the Tories that turned up said anything, either supportive or the opposite?
I worry a bit about this mood of “we’ll just wait until Omicron is done and then get rid”. What fortuitously timed or concocted national emergency will be next! Wouldn’t be surprised if we have another two years of rolling emergencies of one sort or another and then it’s too close to the election.
Truly heartbreaking moment in the Commons as DUP MP Jim Shannon points out his mother-in-law "died alone", before breaking down in tears. Heroically, he got his question out: when will the No10 parties inquiry be made public? https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1480893098360283141/photo/1
Sunderland Tory MP says Boris will have to resign.
It's on.
On the other hand, that's what people thought after the last Cummings ice cream sundae surprise, and even after Paterson before that. He may just limp on through the year, possibly.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
Just catching up. Switched on Sky, lots of green leather on display. Excluding the chump at the pulpit, have any of the Tories that turned up said anything, either supportive or the opposite?
I worry a bit about this mood of “we’ll just wait until Omicron is done and then get rid”. What fortuitously timed or concocted national emergency will be next! Wouldn’t be surprised if we have another two years of rolling emergencies of one sort or another and then it’s too close to the election.
Pointed comments from three of the ERG/CRG/anti-lockdown bods, otherwise its all been the opposition
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It isn't something that is needed often. Ministers usually are not open liars. Ministers do not usually mislead the house and then see no need to correct the record.
Choosing to deploy the word "liar" is not a failure of language, its a choice of language which at this time is not only appropriate but widely expected.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
Just catching up. Switched on Sky, lots of green leather on display. Excluding the chump at the pulpit, have any of the Tories that turned up said anything, either supportive or the opposite?
I worry a bit about this mood of “we’ll just wait until Omicron is done and then get rid”. What fortuitously timed or concocted national emergency will be next! Wouldn’t be surprised if we have another two years of rolling emergencies of one sort or another and then it’s too close to the election.
Yes. You have to pull the rotten tooth today, not wait around. If any Conservative MPs are in any doubt, they should reflect on the fact that we've been through this over and over again now. They kept waiting, giving another chance. It's not getting better. Grasp the nettle for goodness sake. Try to think about the medium term instead of just getting through the next hour.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
Queue the conspiracy that he wasn't actually ill...
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
It's a recognised phenomenon. Survivors more likely to be carefree
Talk about putting the boot in.....even Big-G will struggle to find something to distract from this! They've even dragged up tearful brides who had to call their wedding off.
They’re constantly dragging up someone or other with a sob story. Sad as they maybe. They also drag up the Covid for Justice lot too. I just wonder if there is going to be more than a little fatigue in this story.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
Well most of Downing Street had Covid-19 by that point, I think some of them felt immortal and at the time there were hopes that a Covid-19 infection gave you immunity.
Told by a source in cabinet today PM was full of ‘forced purpose and mission’ & ‘bulldozed over everybody’. Now MP/senior ministers waiting on what PM going to say/what Met do/Sue Gray report. From conversations I’ve had today it’s fair to say people taking soundings https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1480894946265767938
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 19m Indeed. Boris has three bad options. A) Own it, apologise to the nation. B ) Say he was recently out of hospital and became confused by the lure of cheap wine. C) Hide behind Sue Gray mantra and hope something turns up. Option C is not going well.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
Well most of Downing Street had Covid-19 by that point, I think some of them felt immortal and at the time there were hopes that a Covid-19 infection gave you immunity.
Yes you are probably right...perhaps inadvertently Corbyn aided the overthrow of the government in the end.....
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
Those are the standards of authoritarian regimes, of a Putin or a Xi, not of parliamentary democracies.
Told by a source in cabinet today PM was full of ‘forced purpose and mission’ & ‘bulldozed over everybody’. Now MP/senior ministers waiting on what PM going to say/what Met do/Sue Gray report. From conversations I’ve had today it’s fair to say people taking soundings https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1480894946265767938
I expect there'll be more Whatsapp groups being set up again, in that modern equivalent of Michael Portillo's installing telephone lines.
It was pretty obvious that someone who could manipulate the country into leaving the EU against all sensible advice would have the ability to remove a PM that he loathed.
A knighthood for Cummings please.
Dom, Paterson - it's ironic that all Boris's worse debacles stem from his connections to the Brexit crowd. Tory euro-scepticism claims yet another PM scalp.
The thing I can't quite get my head around, these May parties came only a month after Boris nearly died from COVID.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
At the time I believe there was a general feeling that you were unlikely to catch Covid twice, so Johnson probably wasn't too worried for himself.
The other thing that shows the stupidity of the team around Boris, the husband of a leading journalist, who has never been a big fan of Team Boris, works in the cabinet office. Not some far flung bit of the government, right at the heart of #10 operation. If you were going to be doing any rule breaking, you might think of doing it rather quietly, not be inviting him to the illegal piss ups.
It was apparent long before he entered Downing Street that Boris Johnson would be a pub league prime minister but even his detractors can be forgiven for underestimating the depths of his inadequacy. No prime minister would have sailed through the Covid emergency unchallenged or unscathed but to a man and woman Johnson’s predecessors would at least have appreciated you can’t have ministers appearing on television reminding people they can’t meet friends in the park and then – an hour later! – host a staff jolly in the Downing Street garden.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Crowds back in Scotland at sport from next week after the winter break in the Scottish League ends.
Drakeford out on his own now. Absolutely disgraceful that this farce continues.
Especially as the Scots have admitted closing nightclubs and stadia has had negligible impact on the infection rate.
As predicted, Nicola got what she wanted from being a bit different when it didn't really matter, now quietly moving towards the UK government policy.
I wonder how long it will take the parish councillor in Wales to climb down. He's dimwitted enough to believe that these "protections" actually make a difference so it could be a while. In fact I could see a situation where it goes like the Netherlands and they quickly ramp up restrictions in Wales because whatever they have isn't working.
Crowds back in Scotland at sport from next week after the winter break in the Scottish League ends.
Drakeford out on his own now. Absolutely disgraceful that this farce continues.
Especially as the Scots have admitted closing nightclubs and stadia has had negligible impact on the infection rate.
As predicted, Nicola got what she wanted from being a bit different when it didn't really matter, now quietly moving towards the UK government policy.
I wonder how long it will take the parish councillor in Wales to climb down. He's dimwitted enough to believe that these "protections" actually make a difference so it could be a while. In fact I could see a situation where it goes like the Netherlands and they quickly ramp up restrictions in Wales because whatever they have isn't working.
Its a bit trickier for Drakeford after his tirade (and telling big porkies) at the English not doing anything to stop COVID. Now if he removes them with cases still very high, the obvious question arises. Sturgeon is a much smarter politician, framing it as acting with caution, but keeping it under review.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Talk about putting the boot in.....even Big-G will struggle to find something to distract from this! They've even dragged up tearful brides who had to call their wedding off.
Excuse me.
I have condemned Boris throughout my posts and you should retract that comment
Things are so bad, I'm hearing that Boris Johnson will shortly announce that on the 20th of May 2020 he was not at the Downing Street party but in fact at the Pizza Express of Woking.
Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.
Its absolutely true. I was one of the people on here banging on about how illogical and stupid the rules were.
If you make rules and don’t follow them, that’s hypocrisy, notwithstanding how well (or not) you crafted the rules.
If you’ve got 5 people working together all day in a small office and they then go and stand in a garden to have social drinks together, the increased risk of transmission is minimal. Doing that would’ve been against the rules, but not a real public health problem.
However, if you’ve got 40 people who’ve been working in different parts of a building and they then come together, that is a problem. You are exposing people to other people that they are normally not or only minimally exposed to. This appears to be what happened on 20 May 2020. Precisely how much transmission risk was created would depend on how much people mingled. Being outside in a garden on a warm day does help keep the risk down. The presence of alcohol increases the risk because drunk people are bad at sticking to 2m distancing.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
You aren't a very big tent Tory are you, its like when you called me a left winger the other week.
Comments
His ADHD is part of the problem but not necessarily the core one. (and, btw, it is not lack of brain area, but a deficit of meaningful subconscious help in turning a stream of tasks and ideas into some kind of organisation that then merely needs to be proof read, rather than pieced together almost from scratch, in the conscious mind). The problem is that he has taken the stuff it approach to all that garbled mental input and chooses to live on flawed gut instinct and bluster, something his privilege made possible.
It won't wash. Will all be over before then. Dom is waiting for the government to twat about sufficiently before dumping the video footage of Boris laughing at how "socially distanced" they all are.
http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/
Their latest album, The Charisma Years, is a collector's item.
Lickspittle General
“The PM is going nowhere. He retains the confidence of the people of this country”
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1480886310529388546
That is still my presumption, but I wonder if she is just tempted now to finish him on the basis that he is past the point of no return anyway? She'd potentially be preserving the system, and her own position, by making Johnson himself the scapegoat.
Its very simple. Whatever the issue is, whomever the PM is, if they break the law they resign.
That they won't even answer that is a damning indictment of what is left of the so-called Conservative Party.
https://twitter.com/Alison_McGovern/status/1480886589605793795
He desparately needs someone to tell him when he’s being an idiot, but no-one wants to work as the top dog there with Carrie hanging around.
If she attended she definitely needs to recuse herself.
If she was invited or knew of them she probably should.
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
When they really want to get rid of him then they'll do it, regardless of what else is happening. Wasn't Thatcher deposed in between Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the war to push them out again, while British troops were being deployed to the Gulf ready for combat?
But I'd probably lose my voice after a couple of days.
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
That it was not right seems to have slipped by them. And so Johnson knew exactly what had gone on, but could stick to the line of all rules were complied with (i.e. 2m distancing, outside etc) but of course thats just bullshit.
However, one of her merits as a choice was, I believe, that she was out on secondment in Northern Ireland throughout the period.
But this should be a resigning offence, as one Matt Hancock might ruefully point out.
So - are they going to claim that everyone at this massive knees up only interacted with exactly one other person who was 2m away?
Dear God. They are aren't they?
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1480889026257244169
Cummings and Sunak and I assume Gove are playing this perfectly.
Remember that David Lidington was briefly touted as a May successor, and I believe that was after he'd indicated he did not intend to stand at the next election (and didn't in the end).
No 10 would spend the whole day (or more) claiming BoZo is not a liar, and more and more examples of his lies would be played
Tory majority: 5,507.
Digital ad going out today: https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1480891402942922757/photo/1
"Has he asked the Prime Minister about this party?"
Ellis: “I’m not going to disclose personal conversations…”
Cue guffaws from MPs
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1480891672787623937
That isn't a good outcome politically.
It's on.
What a wanker Boris Johnson is.
A knighthood for Cummings please.
Boris Johnson, your deflections and distractions are absurd.
Not only did you know about the parties in Downing Street, you attended them.
Stop lying to the British public. It’s time to finally come clean.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1480836060703776776
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Gray_(civil_servant)
I worry a bit about this mood of “we’ll just wait until Omicron is done and then get rid”. What fortuitously timed or concocted national emergency will be next! Wouldn’t be surprised if we have another two years of rolling emergencies of one sort or another and then it’s too close to the election.
Heroically, he got his question out: when will the No10 parties inquiry be made public? https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1480893098360283141/photo/1
https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/1480893298545934338
Choosing to deploy the word "liar" is not a failure of language, its a choice of language which at this time is not only appropriate but widely expected.
Putting aside the morals of you should be sticking to your own rules and that Boris has got away with consistently breaking them in the past, you would think a brush with death would have sent you the other way, COVID, shit it going to kill everybody, consistently shouting stop, stop...2m....2m....2 f##king metres.....at everybody.
Its a bit like somebody doing 100 mph down the motorway having a big accident and on their release, straight in the motor and piling down the motorway again at 100 mph.
If any Conservative MPs are in any doubt, they should reflect on the fact that we've been through this over and over again now. They kept waiting, giving another chance. It's not getting better. Grasp the nettle for goodness sake. Try to think about the medium term instead of just getting through the next hour.
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1480894946265767938
@iainmartin1
·
19m
Indeed. Boris has three bad options. A) Own it, apologise to the nation. B ) Say he was recently out of hospital and became confused by the lure of cheap wine. C) Hide behind Sue Gray mantra and hope something turns up. Option C is not going well.
Drakeford out on his own now. Absolutely disgraceful that this farce continues.
Especially as the Scots have admitted closing nightclubs and stadia has had negligible impact on the infection rate.
It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
Those are the standards of authoritarian regimes, of a Putin or a Xi, not of parliamentary democracies.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-unfathomable-inadequacy-of-boris-johnson
I wonder how long it will take the parish councillor in Wales to climb down. He's dimwitted enough to believe that these "protections" actually make a difference so it could be a while. In fact I could see a situation where it goes like the Netherlands and they quickly ramp up restrictions in Wales because whatever they have isn't working.
I’m out shopping.
I have condemned Boris throughout my posts and you should retract that comment
The only person on here defending him is @HYUFD
If you’ve got 5 people working together all day in a small office and they then go and stand in a garden to have social drinks together, the increased risk of transmission is minimal. Doing that would’ve been against the rules, but not a real public health problem.
However, if you’ve got 40 people who’ve been working in different parts of a building and they then come together, that is a problem. You are exposing people to other people that they are normally not or only minimally exposed to. This appears to be what happened on 20 May 2020. Precisely how much transmission risk was created would depend on how much people mingled. Being outside in a garden on a warm day does help keep the risk down. The presence of alcohol increases the risk because drunk people are bad at sticking to 2m distancing.