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Johnson exit date betting moves sharply to 2022 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 11 in General
imageJohnson exit date betting moves sharply to 2022 – politicalbetting.com

Another day and another report of alleged lockdown violations by the Prime Minister last summer and still Johnson survives. But as can be seen from the betting chart 2022 has now moved to favourite for his exit.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,107
    First (rule of lockdown busting parties)?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,053
    Test
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Second rate....
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,642
    I would not buy a used car from that man. It's that simple.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,107
    Also, the SKS tip from a couple of headers back not looking quite so good!

    Johnson might still ride this out though. It would have sunk him at the time, I think. But with few restrictions now, perhaps this can be survived.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    Selebian said:

    Also, the SKS tip from a couple of headers back not looking quite so good!

    Johnson might still ride this out though. It would have sunk him at the time, I think. But with few restrictions now, perhaps this can be survived.

    I've liked this, because I agree. However, I do expect some major diversionary action, perhaps over N. Ireland.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    edited January 11

    dixiedean said:

    What this country really needs at this time of a cost of living crunch is an even wealthier PM then?

    Someone who knows how to manage money at the highest levels is perfect
    I think that's a mistaken view Big_G. In my experience the people who know how to manage money best are those who have very little; anyone with lots of money really doesn't have to try very hard to make more.

    I've seen it to a small extent through my life:

    In my early married years money was always tight, we only kept our heads above water by budgeting very carefully, checking the prices of everything, foregoing some things each month that we'd have liked but couldn't afford, etc. This is the common experience of millions of families up and down the country.

    But, as my career progressed and my earnings increased, gradually money became less and less of an issue until now, in a comfortable retirement - mortgage paid, no debts, reasonable savings, good pension - I never really think about money. And yet still our savings seem to grow.

    Anyone like Sunak who has never had to endure the grind of weekly and monthly budgeting on an income that is not quite enough, does most assuredly not know how to manage money.
    I understand your point but do not agree

    It is one thing budgeting household expenditure, it is quite another dealing with millions, billions and more running a Country's finance
    Reminds me of the nonsense analogy Thatcher used to spout about a good housewife managing the nations accounts.
    Indeed, it was total tosh. For a start, what housewife has the ability to print their own money, or set their own interest rate?
    Or steal the next door neighbour’s oil and gas?

    Or steal the next door neighbour’s waste all the oil and gas stored in the attic?

    Corrected for you
    First time I’ve heard Scotland described as “the attic”, but I can see how that fits into an Anglocentric worldview.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Former Private Secretary to Mrs T, scathing about the clown's behaviour on Woman's Hour
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    File under 'keep digging'
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,212
    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036
    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    The Tories don't have the monopoly on being anti-restrictions, you know - nor have they exactly been convincing on this measure. We just got away without another lockdown. We didn't get away without Plan B. Our children are still having to wear masks in schools.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    Selebian said:

    Also, the SKS tip from a couple of headers back not looking quite so good!

    Johnson might still ride this out though. It would have sunk him at the time, I think. But with few restrictions now, perhaps this can be survived.

    I'm glad I closed out the bet when the latest Johnson news broke.
    Did OGH ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529
    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152

    For those bullish on self-driving cars: Tesla has just increased the price of their self-driving suite to $12,000

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/01/telsa-increases-the-price-of-full-self-driving-yet-again/

    So not only do you need an expensivish car; the self-driving suite alone costs half the cost of a decent good-selling car in the US (Toyota Camry), for capability that's currently essentially non-existent (and behind their other competitors).

    If self-driving is going to be this expensive, it's going to be very fringe.

    Fuel injection was a 2 grand option (for an extra 8hp, LOL) on the E21 3 Series in the 70s. It's been impossible to buy a car without it for about 15 years now.

    AP is safer than driving the Tesla yourself. AP averages 1 accident every 4.5 million miles while humans do 1 every 1.2 million miles.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,327
    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    Hard to see any scenario this plays for more restrictions.

    Apart from more confirmation Boris is a wally, he also have confirmation the civil service is utterly out of touch, and were never personally scared at all whilst they were busy trying to scare the living daylights out of the whole country.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    He doesn't drink personally - but what was the rest of the No.11 staff up to.

    Similarly for Truss.

    This will have a major effect on the betting value for either of them. Any replacement for BJ will have to be completely clean on this one.
  • Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    An odd thread really. HYUFD demonstrating just how wrong one man can be about so many things at the same time.

    Firstly the Red Wall will not vote for Boris in 2024. Dismissing all other leaders because "they will only vote for Boris" is utterly ludicrous when the polls show they won't vote for Boris.

    Secondly pretty much everyone here is lined up with the basics of right and wrong. Two months into Covid restrictions the government giving a 3pm "you will not meet with other people" instruction and a 5pm "everyone round to number 10, bring a bottle, we deserve a party" is demonstrably indefensible. Never mind the political optics, it's indefensible to anyone with a brain, a conscience or morals.

    So perhaps he of the high church lecturing the rest of us about Christian values may consider the plank in his own eye. I haven't seen such screaming hypocrisy since IDS claimed to be a man of God before proceeding to smash the poor as hard as humanly possible.

    Finally, what the red wall voted for. Yes Boris was a bit of a lad, the anti-politician anti-Tory. But they bought that principally because he offered the solution to their problems. Which wasn't Brexit, it was the reason why they voted for Brexit

    There are many planks to this. Some voted to get rid of all the foreigners. Some because they wanted money for the NHS. Some to kick the government. And so many more because they wanted their town and their community and their family to have a chance in life that they unfairly were being denied. Fairness is something very high on the agenda of people in the red wall. So the idea they will still vote for the lying cheating mocking incompetent corrupt charlatan is breathtaking.

    Boris Johnson is over. The Tory party can either accept this, replace him with someone who represents the values of both the party and the country and have a chance, or keep him and not only lose the election but smash the party into pieces.

    The latest polls have the Tories on 33-35% and Labour with only a 3 to 5% lead and there were plenty of garden drinks party photos before that. That is more Cameron midterm polling, nowhere near pre 1997 polling.

    The only hypothetical alternative leader polling from Opinium last month had a Truss or Gove led Tories polling worse than a Boris led Tories. Even a Sunak led Tories were only on 34% ie no better than they are polling now.

    So the only one wrong on this is you. As long as Boris continues to impose no new restrictions, especially on the vaccinated, he will survive
    Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad. If HYFUD prevails, then the Conservatives will face an extinction level event at the next general election. It never seems to occur to him that the opinion polls he consistently and complacently quotes are a lagging indicator.
    Look most commentators on here hate Boris and did not even vote for him in 2019. Yet the 33 to 35% the Tories are still polling is still higher than the Tories got from 1997 to 2005, hardly extinction level
    Not true, my guess would be about 60% of the active site voted for Johnson in 2019 and sub 20% intend to next time
    Yebbut as HYUFD keeps saying mostd of that 60% - indeed also that 20% - aren't Real Tories anyway.
    Exactly. You're only a real Tory if you vote Plaid Cymru to support Welsh secession from the Union.
    Oh yes, and advocate the creation of an English Parliament and the secession of Antrim from the Union whiles at it.
    An English parliament is perfectly compatible with the Union, just a Union based on equality that treats England the same as the other 3 home nations
    Agreed.
    Quite, which begs the quesiton why it isn't Tory policy.
    Tory policy is “Get Brexit Done”, which is impossible, as Brexit will never be “done”.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    edited January 11
    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    (FPT) I approve this message.

    @PadTheHoundsman ... I know I'm late to this discussion thread (and post only rarely anyway), but I need to get this off my chest.

    It's not that the UK's Covid rules were wrong - they weren't - but that the cavalier attitude towards them demonstrated by the people in charge of running the top political offices in the country speaks volumes about their commitment to running a properly constructed and effective government. That the PM, a man who himself had only recently experienced the full force of Covid, should have so little empathy with the people he works with that he was prepared for them to risk the same outcome in the name of a large social gathering - something that was illegal for the rest of us - is horrifying. Even if you were to give him the benefit of what little doubt there is and take the view that he attended because he believed he was immune and wasn't a personal threat to anyone doesn't absolve him of the responsibility for allowing the event to go ahead in the first place.

    The current strata of people who are running the country - not just the politicians but the special advisors and senior civil servants whose stunning lack of self awareness in the face of a deadly worldwide pandemic is now visible with the light of a thousand suns - should all, to a man, shuffle off into a deep and meaningless retirement and let some people in to run the country who have a sense of professionalism, honour and pride in the quality of their work.

    It's not that I carry a candle for the other lot all of a sudden (it's unlikely I ever will) but the PM and his coterie need to depart stage right immediately before they undermine whatever is left of the public's perceptions of the need for health and security in a pandemic that's simply not going to go away any time soon.

    I'm a card carrying party member and I voted for him in the leadership election, but I'm now compelled to say BORIS OUT!


  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,366
    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 47
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    The Tories don't have the monopoly on being anti-restrictions, you know - nor have they exactly been convincing on this measure. We just got away without another lockdown. We didn't get away without Plan B. Our children are still having to wear masks in schools.
    They've been more convincing than Labour, and that's all that really matters(*) in an environment where the next election is being set up to be Tories vs everybody else.

    (*) to someone who's going to vote primarily on this issue
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    edited January 11
    Former PS to Mrs T and John M says that, based on her experience of doing the job, it is "inconceivable" that the PM didn't know about the party invite before it was sent by the PS.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 47
    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    Hard to see any scenario this plays for more restrictions.

    Apart from more confirmation Boris is a wally, he also have confirmation the civil service is utterly out of touch, and were never personally scared at all whilst they were busy trying to scare the living daylights out of the whole country.
    Well, quite. Surely the disdain the government machine had for the restrictions should tell us something about the restrictions as well as about the government?
  • HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    You are like a stuck record and for someone who thinks they know so much about politics your lack of awareness is quite unfathomable
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 47

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    An odd thread really. HYUFD demonstrating just how wrong one man can be about so many things at the same time.

    Firstly the Red Wall will not vote for Boris in 2024. Dismissing all other leaders because "they will only vote for Boris" is utterly ludicrous when the polls show they won't vote for Boris.

    Secondly pretty much everyone here is lined up with the basics of right and wrong. Two months into Covid restrictions the government giving a 3pm "you will not meet with other people" instruction and a 5pm "everyone round to number 10, bring a bottle, we deserve a party" is demonstrably indefensible. Never mind the political optics, it's indefensible to anyone with a brain, a conscience or morals.

    So perhaps he of the high church lecturing the rest of us about Christian values may consider the plank in his own eye. I haven't seen such screaming hypocrisy since IDS claimed to be a man of God before proceeding to smash the poor as hard as humanly possible.

    Finally, what the red wall voted for. Yes Boris was a bit of a lad, the anti-politician anti-Tory. But they bought that principally because he offered the solution to their problems. Which wasn't Brexit, it was the reason why they voted for Brexit

    There are many planks to this. Some voted to get rid of all the foreigners. Some because they wanted money for the NHS. Some to kick the government. And so many more because they wanted their town and their community and their family to have a chance in life that they unfairly were being denied. Fairness is something very high on the agenda of people in the red wall. So the idea they will still vote for the lying cheating mocking incompetent corrupt charlatan is breathtaking.

    Boris Johnson is over. The Tory party can either accept this, replace him with someone who represents the values of both the party and the country and have a chance, or keep him and not only lose the election but smash the party into pieces.

    The latest polls have the Tories on 33-35% and Labour with only a 3 to 5% lead and there were plenty of garden drinks party photos before that. That is more Cameron midterm polling, nowhere near pre 1997 polling.

    The only hypothetical alternative leader polling from Opinium last month had a Truss or Gove led Tories polling worse than a Boris led Tories. Even a Sunak led Tories were only on 34% ie no better than they are polling now.

    So the only one wrong on this is you. As long as Boris continues to impose no new restrictions, especially on the vaccinated, he will survive
    Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad. If HYFUD prevails, then the Conservatives will face an extinction level event at the next general election. It never seems to occur to him that the opinion polls he consistently and complacently quotes are a lagging indicator.
    Look most commentators on here hate Boris and did not even vote for him in 2019. Yet the 33 to 35% the Tories are still polling is still higher than the Tories got from 1997 to 2005, hardly extinction level
    Not true, my guess would be about 60% of the active site voted for Johnson in 2019 and sub 20% intend to next time
    Yebbut as HYUFD keeps saying mostd of that 60% - indeed also that 20% - aren't Real Tories anyway.
    Exactly. You're only a real Tory if you vote Plaid Cymru to support Welsh secession from the Union.
    Oh yes, and advocate the creation of an English Parliament and the secession of Antrim from the Union whiles at it.
    An English parliament is perfectly compatible with the Union, just a Union based on equality that treats England the same as the other 3 home nations
    Agreed.
    Quite, which begs the quesiton why it isn't Tory policy.
    Tory policy is “Get Brexit Done”, which is impossible, as Brexit will never be “done”.
    Last I checked, the United Kingdom has left the European Union...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,053

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,435

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    Selebian said:

    Also, the SKS tip from a couple of headers back not looking quite so good!

    Johnson might still ride this out though. It would have sunk him at the time, I think. But with few restrictions now, perhaps this can be survived.

    I think it depends what else there is to come. I do think Gallowgate is right from a prior thread about public interest waning in this. I think his enemies in politics and the media need a new line of attack
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    From your link..
    Community safety officers, employed by the local council, patrol the beach to ensure physical distancing measures are adhered to and visitors do not drink alcohol
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    File under 'keep digging'
    I’m no Tory nor fan of Boris but I suspect HYUFD is on the money here.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    Is this the HIGNFY 'odd one out' round?

    The pictures are: Hitler, Trump, Boris, OGH
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    Tory party mood dark

    V senior Tory says: ‘It’s as bad as it gets. Fact Dowden was telling people what they couldn’t do from one room & less than hour later this was happening in garden is indefensible

    Another: ‘Mood terrible -even those who profess loyalty to him are in despair

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1480850270280204288
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,596
    Has HYUFD been on here yet telling us how Boris Johnson is still a winner?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
    Stay well. Watch your temperature and make sure you are eating/drinking. Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    H.P. Lovecraft and me.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,366
    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
    More wheedling
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390
    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,297
    Boris needs a distraction, something to get the Tory juices flowing until all of this is out of the news cycle. What's happening with AUUKUS these days? That worked like a charm before. Boris should relaunch it perhaps with a new member - New Zealand, Easter Island, the Isle of Wight, anything!
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 1,899

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    I remember conversations about how the rules worked if we went for a walk on the beach and bumped into another family - because each of us were only allowed to "meet" one other person, >2m away. So was it OK if each of us met one member of the other family, provided we all separated out? How did you define being 2m away while "meeting" vs 2m away while not "meeting". Did it undermine your argument if you had planned to see them there knowing more than one person outside your household would arrive simultaneously? This really is what life was like in May 2020. Meanwhile car parks were barricaded up to stop people meeting in larger numbers and the police were stopping and questioning people along the lines above (in one case also insisting that surfing wasn't exercise and was an excuse for meeting people in the sea).
  • Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    Its absolutely true. I was one of the people on here banging on about how illogical and stupid the rules were.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036
    Applicant said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    The Tories don't have the monopoly on being anti-restrictions, you know - nor have they exactly been convincing on this measure. We just got away without another lockdown. We didn't get away without Plan B. Our children are still having to wear masks in schools.
    They've been more convincing than Labour, and that's all that really matters(*) in an environment where the next election is being set up to be Tories vs everybody else.

    (*) to someone who's going to vote primarily on this issue
    I'm not sure it does.
    It really matters to me that we drop restrictions and make it as hard as possible to bring them in in the future.
    The Conservatives clearly don't really believe this as a point of principle - too many times in the past they've brought restrictions in far too easily on the basis of clearly dodgy evidence. They've brought things in measures for reasons of political expediency. (I don't say this as an outright criticism - that's how democracy works).
    Labour have been very pro-restrictions, but I'd say also for reasons of political expediency.
    But in a market where you have two parties responding to political expediency, it's not massively obvious why I should support the Tories when the Lib Dems have been consistently principled on the side that I would want them to be.
    If the Tories were pragmatic and Labour were in the isage camp, I can see your argument. You'd vote Tory to keep the isage lot out as people voted Tory to keep Corbyn out. But I don't think Labour are in that camp. I disagree with their position, but I don't fear them. Which leaves me free to vote for a party which has taken a principled stand.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024
    Dura_Ace said:

    For those bullish on self-driving cars: Tesla has just increased the price of their self-driving suite to $12,000

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/01/telsa-increases-the-price-of-full-self-driving-yet-again/

    So not only do you need an expensivish car; the self-driving suite alone costs half the cost of a decent good-selling car in the US (Toyota Camry), for capability that's currently essentially non-existent (and behind their other competitors).

    If self-driving is going to be this expensive, it's going to be very fringe.

    Fuel injection was a 2 grand option (for an extra 8hp, LOL) on the E21 3 Series in the 70s. It's been impossible to buy a car without it for about 15 years now.

    AP is safer than driving the Tesla yourself. AP averages 1 accident every 4.5 million miles while humans do 1 every 1.2 million miles.
    Fuel injection was a known technology, and it was simply a case of reducing the cost. Self-driving is far from a known technology, and has only been fully achieved in tightly geofenced areas.

    As for AP's safety: you need to be careful with comparisons. Firstly, how do you discern whether an accident occurred during AP or not, if it switched off a few seconds pre-impact? Secondly, Tesla owners are better off and may have different driving profiles to the average driver. Thirdly, Tesla cars are generally newer and should have fewer maintenance-related safety issues.

    You really need to compare (say) Tesla under AP (perhaps where AP has been switched on during the journey) with similarly-priced cars of a similar age.

    I am very bearish on true level-5 self-driving cars. As I've been for years (since the Darpa Grand Challenge); so far I've been correct.

    I'll be wrong eventually. ;)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,500
    Why have the government not focused more on the best defence they have come up with so far? Surely it is now time for Raab to make far more of his argument that because it happened in the past it should not be investigated or discussed?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Hangover that bad ?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    Inflation going through the roof.

    Starting salary for a straight-out-of-training graduate lawyer in London: £150,000 pa.

    General London law salaries up 89% last year.

    (BBC Today)
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
    Until Sepsis kicks in and suddenly you aren't.

    Finish your day's work and see if 111 can get you an urgent care appointment...
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 242
    It is always helpful to remember that Boris has never had any loyalty to the Conservative party. The only party that matters to him is the Boris party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
    As always I go case by case. The Xmas zoom quiz didn't look to me like a party. The one with those 3 atomized groups in the garden and some 'cheese & wine' didn't look to me like a party. This one does look to me like a party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
  • Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Me for last 11 days. 20 days to go! 🍻
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Hangover that bad ?
    Sadly a snotty cold so no inclination (its not covid). Worst present from the wife for a while!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036
    Nigelb said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    From your link..
    Community safety officers, employed by the local council, patrol the beach to ensure physical distancing measures are adhered to and visitors do not drink alcohol
    Yes - this was under a Conservative government remember. For anyone who thinks the Tories still have the anti-lockdown vote in their pocket.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
    Stay well. Watch your temperature and make sure you are eating/drinking. Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it.
    Thank you for your concern.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    "If the people who set the rules are breaking the rules, then we have a real problem...the Conservative Party needs to look at the man in charge, and look at what's happening to government, and take the appropriate action...because you can't get away with this sort of behaviour in public life...and if you do, we've all accepted a huge corrosion of standards." - former PS to Mrs T and John M
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
    As always I go case by case. The Xmas zoom quiz didn't look to me like a party. The one with those 3 atomized groups in the garden and some 'cheese & wine' didn't look to me like a party. This one does look to me like a party.
    Sure, but people were using "party" to describe the first two.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    Applicant said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    An odd thread really. HYUFD demonstrating just how wrong one man can be about so many things at the same time.

    Firstly the Red Wall will not vote for Boris in 2024. Dismissing all other leaders because "they will only vote for Boris" is utterly ludicrous when the polls show they won't vote for Boris.

    Secondly pretty much everyone here is lined up with the basics of right and wrong. Two months into Covid restrictions the government giving a 3pm "you will not meet with other people" instruction and a 5pm "everyone round to number 10, bring a bottle, we deserve a party" is demonstrably indefensible. Never mind the political optics, it's indefensible to anyone with a brain, a conscience or morals.

    So perhaps he of the high church lecturing the rest of us about Christian values may consider the plank in his own eye. I haven't seen such screaming hypocrisy since IDS claimed to be a man of God before proceeding to smash the poor as hard as humanly possible.

    Finally, what the red wall voted for. Yes Boris was a bit of a lad, the anti-politician anti-Tory. But they bought that principally because he offered the solution to their problems. Which wasn't Brexit, it was the reason why they voted for Brexit

    There are many planks to this. Some voted to get rid of all the foreigners. Some because they wanted money for the NHS. Some to kick the government. And so many more because they wanted their town and their community and their family to have a chance in life that they unfairly were being denied. Fairness is something very high on the agenda of people in the red wall. So the idea they will still vote for the lying cheating mocking incompetent corrupt charlatan is breathtaking.

    Boris Johnson is over. The Tory party can either accept this, replace him with someone who represents the values of both the party and the country and have a chance, or keep him and not only lose the election but smash the party into pieces.

    The latest polls have the Tories on 33-35% and Labour with only a 3 to 5% lead and there were plenty of garden drinks party photos before that. That is more Cameron midterm polling, nowhere near pre 1997 polling.

    The only hypothetical alternative leader polling from Opinium last month had a Truss or Gove led Tories polling worse than a Boris led Tories. Even a Sunak led Tories were only on 34% ie no better than they are polling now.

    So the only one wrong on this is you. As long as Boris continues to impose no new restrictions, especially on the vaccinated, he will survive
    Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad. If HYFUD prevails, then the Conservatives will face an extinction level event at the next general election. It never seems to occur to him that the opinion polls he consistently and complacently quotes are a lagging indicator.
    Look most commentators on here hate Boris and did not even vote for him in 2019. Yet the 33 to 35% the Tories are still polling is still higher than the Tories got from 1997 to 2005, hardly extinction level
    Not true, my guess would be about 60% of the active site voted for Johnson in 2019 and sub 20% intend to next time
    Yebbut as HYUFD keeps saying mostd of that 60% - indeed also that 20% - aren't Real Tories anyway.
    Exactly. You're only a real Tory if you vote Plaid Cymru to support Welsh secession from the Union.
    Oh yes, and advocate the creation of an English Parliament and the secession of Antrim from the Union whiles at it.
    An English parliament is perfectly compatible with the Union, just a Union based on equality that treats England the same as the other 3 home nations
    Agreed.
    Quite, which begs the quesiton why it isn't Tory policy.
    Tory policy is “Get Brexit Done”, which is impossible, as Brexit will never be “done”.
    Last I checked, the United Kingdom has left the European Union...
    The UK was a member of the EU for best part of half a century. During that time, entry was never “done”.

    Xenophobes can moan for decades on end. So can internationalists.
  • Has HYUFD been on here yet telling us how Boris Johnson is still a winner?

    Need you ask !!!!!!
  • Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Hmm, PB's more prolific thread writers are teetotallers, correlation or causation?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    We'll see. I'll believe it when it happens.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Me for last 11 days. 20 days to go! 🍻
    You fool! You've been sucked in by New Yearitus...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529

    Inflation going through the roof.

    Starting salary for a straight-out-of-training graduate lawyer in London: £150,000 pa.

    General London law salaries up 89% last year.

    (BBC Today)

    Only a select few firms pay close to £150k for a NQ lawyer however the salaries of other London firms are passing the £100k mark.

    However I understand lawyers at regional firms are getting miffed because some of their colleagues are being paid London salaries and only need to be in the office 1 day per week etc.

    I’m not sure what’s happening with wages in the provinces.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,435

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    eek said:

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
    Until Sepsis kicks in and suddenly you aren't.

    Finish your day's work and see if 111 can get you an urgent care appointment...
    +1

    You will also be saving us all money. And reducing load on the NHS.

    All the medical conditions I have heard of are simpler and easier to treat the earlier they are dealt with. The longer you leave such a thing the more potential for expensive, longer term treatment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    The point is though that the PM has stood at the despatch box and told a load of porkies...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,443
    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
    Eh? I've only ever seen 'BYOB' applied to a 'party'.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    edited January 11

    Has HYUFD been on here yet telling us how Boris Johnson is still a winner?

    Need you ask !!!!!!
    HYUFD is clinging on to the belief that Johnson is still a winner. I think he's wrong but there you go. Seems to me that he is equally concerned that Truss doesn't succeed as this could put the party in a worse position - and he may be right about that. I heard the rumour the other day of Sunak and Hunt forming a pact to swerve this possibility.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,390

    Wage inflation seems to be hitting city law firms hard.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/01/nq-lawyer-pay-at-mayer-brown-hits-105k/

    Hi GG - did you get some medical attention yesterday?
    Negative. I’m giving it another day as too busy with work to faff about on hold for hours and then disappear to see a doctor. I’m ok though.
    Stay well. Watch your temperature and make sure you are eating/drinking. Don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it.
    Thank you for your concern.
    A few years ago a friend had a stoma reversal, seemed to be ok after discharge but gradually started eating less and less. In the end was an emergency admission and surgery - he had a leak and it was all very messy.
    Happily after surgery he is now fine. Its wise to be cautious about infection.
  • On topic, Boris Johnson is a lying ****, this is not news.

    However the one rule for us and one rule for them is what is going to cause his huge problems, as is lying to the House.

    Now, that's normally a resigning matter or possibly a suspension.

    How disorganised and/or pissed do you need to be know to forget you attended a BYOB in your own house?

    For those asking why it was BYOB, the PM has to pay for all the food and drinks he & his family, and friends consume in Downing Street except for state and official events.

    This was done to save Boris Johnson money.
  • Boris needs a distraction, something to get the Tory juices flowing until all of this is out of the news cycle. What's happening with AUUKUS these days? That worked like a charm before. Boris should relaunch it perhaps with a new member - New Zealand, Easter Island, the Isle of Wight, anything!

    I expect he will have to do a full 'mea culpa' tomorrow at the beginning of PMQs
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Me for last 11 days. 20 days to go! 🍻
    You fool! You've been sucked in by New Yearitus...
    Sucked in by NeedToLoseAStoneitus.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    edited January 11

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    We were being regaled with the long lens garbage all through the various levels of restrictions.

    I knew one person who was holding neighbourhood* parties all the way through all the restrictions. Everyone else was being sensible.

    *5-6 households were always round each others places.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,435
    IanB2 said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    The point is though that the PM has stood at the despatch box and told a load of porkies...
    Im sure he has but I think he believes if people are 2 metres apart then it does not matter what they do.
    He kept stressing that in his answers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,443
    IanB2 said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    The point is though that the PM has stood at the despatch box and told a load of porkies...
    I'm reminded of the great big factory next to the station at Melton Mowbray.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175
    ONS weekly deaths:

    https://tinyurl.com/2p96sws2

    Week-ending, 5-year average | COVID deaths | non-COVID deaths | non-COVID deaths in excess of the average

    24-Sep-21: 9,264 | 888 | 9,796 | 532
    01-Oct-21: 9,377 | 783 | 9,727 | 350
    08-Oct-21: 9,555 | 666 | 10,141 | 586
    15-Oct-21: 9,811 | 713 | 10,464 | 653
    22-Oct-21: 9,865 | 792 | 10,516 | 651
    29-Oct-21: 9,759 | 859 | 10,128 | 369
    05-Nov-21: 9,891 | 995 | 10,555 | 664
    12-Nov-21: 10,331 | 1,020 | 11,030 | 699
    19-Nov-21: 10,350 | 952 | 11,151 | 801
    26-Nov-21: 10,380 | 817 | 10,650 | 270
    03-Dec-21: 10,357 | 792 | 10,867 | 510
    10-Dec-21: 10,695 | 764 | 11,166 | 471
    17-Dec-21: 10,750 | 755 | 11,645 | 895
    24-Dec-21: 11,548 | 591 | 12,419 | 871
    31-Dec-21: 7,954 | 582 | 7,895 | -59

    This was the first week that non-COVID deaths have been below the five-year average since 3 September (another bank holiday affected week).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Does anyone know what the "culture" was in the No. 11 office? Interesting that Sunak is utterly invisible in all of these parties. How was he running his ship?

    Teetotaller?
    How about "professional" ?
    Dunno if Teetotaller = Professional.

    Trump
    Hitler
    Kane

    Any other notorious teetotallers?
    Me
    And @TheScreamingEagles
    Me since Sunday night (does that count?)
    Hangover that bad ?
    Sadly a snotty cold so no inclination (its not covid). Worst present from the wife for a while!
    Broth might actually help. :smile:
    Get well soon.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    District / Circle / Metropolitan line yes - for the others I think it's 800 see https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0988-1819
  • CookieCookie Posts: 5,036

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    It's worth looking at the Bournemouth Beach on Google Earth aerial views. Those groynes are getting on for 200m apart. Those people are nothing like as close together as they appear.

    I remember going to Formby beach back in May 2020. I posted a few photos on facebook. Friends were baffled that they appeared to show no-one but my family on the beach. It occurred to me that I probably could have taken a photo which made it look crowded if I'd zoomed right in on one group - but really it wasn't in the least bit crowded. I expect this was fairly typical.
    Those trying to whip up hysteria about crowding on the beaches are some of the minor villains of the whole affair.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152



    You really need to compare (say) Tesla under AP (perhaps where AP has been switched on during the journey) with similarly-priced cars of a similar age.

    100% of the market for Tesla AP are Telsa buyers so it doesn't really matter how safe it is compared to other cars.

    AP sales for Tesla are declining through as their sales mix becomes increasingly dominated by the 3. That's a cheaper car which attracts buyers with less inclination to drop five figures on the AP upgrade. When AP goes to subscription the take up rate will be very high.
  • Inflation going through the roof.

    Starting salary for a straight-out-of-training graduate lawyer in London: £150,000 pa.

    General London law salaries up 89% last year.

    (BBC Today)

    Only a select few firms pay close to £150k for a NQ lawyer however the salaries of other London firms are passing the £100k mark.

    However I understand lawyers at regional firms are getting miffed because some of their colleagues are being paid London salaries and only need to be in the office 1 day per week etc.

    I’m not sure what’s happening with wages in the provinces.
    I do know one firm in Leeds said they weren't giving pay rises in 2020/21 because of the WFH savings staff were making was a de facto pay rise.

    Now they have staff back in the office......
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262

    On topic, Boris Johnson is a lying ****, this is not news.

    However the one rule for us and one rule for them is what is going to cause his huge problems, as is lying to the House.

    Now, that's normally a resigning matter or possibly a suspension.

    How disorganised and/or pissed do you need to be know to forget you attended a BYOB in your own house?

    For those asking why it was BYOB, the PM has to pay for all the food and drinks he & his family, and friends consume in Downing Street except for state and official events.

    This was done to save Boris Johnson money.

    How many days suspension is typical for lying to Parliament?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    ONE URGENT QUESTION TODAY…@AngelaRayner -asking the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on reports of an event held in the Downing Street Garden on 20 May 2020
    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1480855305936588810
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    edited January 11
    ConHome comment:

    There are at least five potential further developments, all of which would have knock-on effects on each other, like billiard balls in a snooker game.

    First, there is the question of whether Johnson has misled the Commons over his attendance at Downing Street parties. Second, this particular one draws Johnson more directly into Gray’s report.

    Third, there is the possibility of police action (the Met has been in contact with the Cabinet Office). Fourth, Conservative MPs will be put on the spot by any Labour motion of censure.

    Fifth, an increasingly restive Cabinet will react to any combination of the above. As, sixth, will any Tory MPs minded to write to Graham Brady in order to demand a ballot of confidence in their party leader.

    What will perhaps concern Tory backbenchers most is that Number Ten appears to have no coherent defence. The best it can apparently offer to date is that the Prime Minister is entitled to use his own garden.

    And Johnson now has little choice but to shake up his political team. I doubt that will help and could well harm. Either way, it may not be enough. His fabulous luck has a high melting point, but the heat of this fire is searing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    Scott_xP said:

    ONE URGENT QUESTION TODAY…@AngelaRayner -asking the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on reports of an event held in the Downing Street Garden on 20 May 2020
    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1480855305936588810

    He could try this from last month...

    I understand and share the anger up and down the country at seeing No 10 staff seeming to make light of lockdown measures, and I can understand how infuriating it must be to think that people who have been setting the rules have not been following the rules because I was also furious...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    eek said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    District / Circle / Metropolitan line yes - for the others I think it's 800 see https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0988-1819
    Think it was a District line train - might have been at Earls Court....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,165
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    I still doubt this sinks Boris. Most of those who will be appalled are already voting Labour after the past garden party photos.

    The remainder still voting Tory are diehard anti restrictions voters on the whole. Indeed prominent anti Covid restrictions campaigner Adam Brooks already is concerned this is a plot to replace Boris with a pro restrictions PM eg Hunt or Gove or Javid.

    https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1480705424332673024?s=20

    Unless Labour gets a 10% + poll lead from this Boris will likely avoid a VONC

    (FPT) I approve this message.

    @PadTheHoundsman ... I know I'm late to this discussion thread (and post only rarely anyway), but I need to get this off my chest.

    It's not that the UK's Covid rules were wrong - they weren't - but that the cavalier attitude towards them demonstrated by the people in charge of running the top political offices in the country speaks volumes about their commitment to running a properly constructed and effective government. That the PM, a man who himself had only recently experienced the full force of Covid, should have so little empathy with the people he works with that he was prepared for them to risk the same outcome in the name of a large social gathering - something that was illegal for the rest of us - is horrifying. Even if you were to give him the benefit of what little doubt there is and take the view that he attended because he believed he was immune and wasn't a personal threat to anyone doesn't absolve him of the responsibility for allowing the event to go ahead in the first place.

    The current strata of people who are running the country - not just the politicians but the special advisors and senior civil servants whose stunning lack of self awareness in the face of a deadly worldwide pandemic is now visible with the light of a thousand suns - should all, to a man, shuffle off into a deep and meaningless retirement and let some people in to run the country who have a sense of professionalism, honour and pride in the quality of their work.

    It's not that I carry a candle for the other lot all of a sudden (it's unlikely I ever will) but the PM and his coterie need to depart stage right immediately before they undermine whatever is left of the public's perceptions of the need for health and security in a pandemic that's simply not going to go away any time soon.

    I'm a card carrying party member and I voted for him in the leadership election, but I'm now compelled to say BORIS OUT!


    As a card carrying member who also voted BJ, I totally agree.

    Time for a change.

    I'd say only about 25% of the members who tell me they voted for him, disagree,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,408
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Stocky said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    #DowningStreetParties UPDATE:

    2 minutes which should cause outrage across the country

    Not only did Boris Johnson deny any parties took place at NO 10 during lockdown Government Ministers actually fell over themselves to back him!

    This whole rotten Government needs to go
    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1480785995205423110/video/1

    Are we still supposed to be getting outraged, about a group of stressed key workers sitting outside in the garden for an hour after working hours?

    A drink after work really isn’t a “Party”, by any definition of the term.
    Your framing is ridiculous. Your semantic quibbling is tragic.
    Cummon, you know very well that the word "party" is deliberately being injected in to try to magnify things. Ditto describing 20 May as the "height of lockdown".
    I tried looking at "party" in several dictionaries. Seems perfectly applicable to me. Are you perhaps assuming that everybody's parties are raucous indoor nighttime raves? Because they aren't. You can sit there and stroke your metaphorical goatee and ask "what is a party?" and "is water wet?", and be as irrelevant as you like in your philosophising.

    But the semantic wheedling here is irrelevant. We are talking hypocrisy and possible law-breaking. What happened happened, and trying to mask it with hocus pocus definitions ought to be beneath you.
    It's not me who is using hocus pocus definitions, it's those who are saying "party" and "height of lockdown" to maximise their attack.
    As always I go case by case. The Xmas zoom quiz didn't look to me like a party. The one with those 3 atomized groups in the garden and some 'cheese & wine' didn't look to me like a party. This one does look to me like a party.
    Sure, but people were using "party" to describe the first two.
    But not me - so I'm offering myself as definitive on this latest one. "Johnson locks up his people and parties" is a fair & judicious description of it. I expect to see a conclusion along these lines in The Report if Sue Gray is the ethical block of granite they say she is.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 21,801
    Cookie said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    It's worth looking at the Bournemouth Beach on Google Earth aerial views. Those groynes are getting on for 200m apart. Those people are nothing like as close together as they appear.

    I remember going to Formby beach back in May 2020. I posted a few photos on facebook. Friends were baffled that they appeared to show no-one but my family on the beach. It occurred to me that I probably could have taken a photo which made it look crowded if I'd zoomed right in on one group - but really it wasn't in the least bit crowded. I expect this was fairly typical.
    Those trying to whip up hysteria about crowding on the beaches are some of the minor villains of the whole affair.
    This never gets old....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,107
    edited January 11

    This important update may have got lost at the end of the last thread; apologies for repetition if already seen:

    I think Boris will be cleared. I've just been passed the statement that he's given to Sue Gray (and the Met):

    1. I knew nothing about the party on May 20. I did not read the Reynold's email; I always just delete emails from him, because they are boring.
    2. On the evening in question, at 6.30pm. Carrie and I took a glass of Chardonnay into our garden to enjoy the fine weather and discuss our family plans.
    3. To my astonishment, dozens of people - SPADs, civil servants, and, I think, Mr Sunak and Ms Truss, were milling about enjoying drinks and snacks.
    4. I took a very dim view of this rule-breaking. So I approached each participant individually and told them in no uncertain terms that, as soon as they had finished all their drinks and snacks, they must depart.
    5. My strategy was successful; by 11pm, all the participants (except Sunak and Truss, I think) had dispersed, and I had nipped the rule-breaking in the bud.
    6. End of statement.

    Discovered at 1830 and 'successful' approach that 'nipped the rule-breaking in the bud' had got everyone out a mere 4.5 hours later? Surely you'd give everyone 10-30 minutes max to disperse?

    I like the 'as soon as they had finished all their drinks and snacks, they must depart'. So if you'd brought a 12-pack of Stella you were good for some time?

    But, if the story stands up and it can't be shown that he knew in advance then he might get away with it, so it's an important statement. If he can be shown to have lied in the statement, then surely toast?
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262

    Inflation going through the roof.

    Starting salary for a straight-out-of-training graduate lawyer in London: £150,000 pa.

    General London law salaries up 89% last year.

    (BBC Today)

    Only a select few firms pay close to £150k for a NQ lawyer however the salaries of other London firms are passing the £100k mark.

    However I understand lawyers at regional firms are getting miffed because some of their colleagues are being paid London salaries and only need to be in the office 1 day per week etc.

    I’m not sure what’s happening with wages in the provinces.
    I do know one firm in Leeds said they weren't giving pay rises in 2020/21 because of the WFH savings staff were making was a de facto pay rise.

    Now they have staff back in the office......
    Most of whom are probably also job hunting...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited January 11
    Cookie said:

    Was that ever true? Really? That you could stand two metres from someone if you didn’t know them but not if you did know them? It’s so long ago and much water has flowed under Westminster Bridge, but if that were ever true, it’s even more bonkers than I ever dared believe.

    It is completely true. You were allowed to meet one person from outside your household as long as you stayed 2 metres apart. As you were allowed to beach, the park, on picnics etc etc on May 20, 2020 you were obviously going to be 2 metres from people that you did not know, and that was ok. Clearly the police were never going to enforce any of these rules.

    Below is from the Guardian in May 2020. People are outraged that people who worked together all day went and stood in a garden with a beer.

    This is what average people were doing in "the height of lockdown"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2020/may/25/uk-crowds-enjoy-may-sunshine-lockdown-eases-in-pictures
    As pointed out frequently, at the time, the use of long lenses to foreshorten perspective and make people appear to be closer to each other than they really were, was a standard create-a-story tactic.

    If you took a picture from a drone (say) above that beach, what you would see is family groups with space between them.

    The estimates are that 80-90% of people obeyed most of the rules, most of the time.

    The most hilarious one of the genre was shot on a London Underground platform, where a long lens was used to create the impression that about 30 people boarding an empty train was a mob. The capacity of such trains is over 1,000.....
    The point is though the end of May 2020 was not the "height of lockdown" and you could sit on a beach 2 metres from everyone and drink beer.
    It's worth looking at the Bournemouth Beach on Google Earth aerial views. Those groynes are getting on for 200m apart. Those people are nothing like as close together as they appear.

    I remember going to Formby beach back in May 2020. I posted a few photos on facebook. Friends were baffled that they appeared to show no-one but my family on the beach. It occurred to me that I probably could have taken a photo which made it look crowded if I'd zoomed right in on one group - but really it wasn't in the least bit crowded. I expect this was fairly typical.
    Those trying to whip up hysteria about crowding on the beaches are some of the minor villains of the whole affair.
    The Downing St garden, looking at Google maps, is around 30,000 sq ft. That’s room for more than 3,000 people all sitting 6’ apart!

    Even if I’m wrong by 50%, and it’s only 15,000 sq ft, that gives 100 people 150 sq ft each, about 25’ from each other.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    Understand Boris Johnson is not on a visit today and was not expected to do a clip with TV cameras - ie there were no plans for a public comment.

    The granting of Labour's urgent question on May 2020 drinks complicates that. Decision needed now on whether he'll come to Commons.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1480857083323072514
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