Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
Also home of William Shanks, the amateur mathematician who worked out the value of π to 707 decimals (of which the first 527 were correct).
Odd URL btw. Oswald's (the club) is owned by Robin Birley, one of Boris's cheque-writers and owner of wherever it was Liz Truss took her American guests in last week's scandal.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Bloody hell, why can't you just admit you were wrong in asserting that there were no villages represented by Sunderland constituencies instead of clogging up the thread with your windmilling?
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
Interesting: what's the largest "village" in Britain. Somewhere like Hampstead, Kew or Wimbledon probably, if they count. Or one of the pretty coastal towns that still calls itself a "fishing village", like Brixham.
The Wikipedia version lists Bradfield (popn 17,100) as the largest "civil parish".
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Newbottle has been a village there for nearly a thousand years.
A lie. "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" and actually Newbottle is part of Houghton-le-Spring which makes it all a town and actually the chair of Sunderland Conservative Association isn't an MP so actually we know Boris is now safe.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
I have held many events for my business over the years. Business was often discussed, but they were still parties. If I had said to my employees to BYOB they would have known it was a party. If I had said BYOB in lockdown they would have known I was trying to break the rules, which would have not happened because leaders do not encourage staff to partake in rule, policy and law breaking. It is why the oaf that your swear such grovelling fealty to should do the proper thing and resign.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Bloody hell, why can't you just admit you were wrong in asserting that there were no villages represented by Sunderland constituencies instead of clogging up the thread with your windmilling?
It must be a ruse to get as many people arguing with him as possible.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
There can't have been many prosecutions for breaking lockdown rules if saying "you can't prove I didn't discuss work" works as a get out of jail free card.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
I wonder how many people were prosecuted or at least cautioned for having parties in their gardens in the same time period?
At the end of May 2020 I would say very few, you were allowed to go to the beach, parks, play sports etc, why would the police bother? I certainly went to see lots of friends/relatives in their gardens during that period and I am sure millions of people did.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 10-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Newbottle has been a village there for nearly a thousand years.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
The thing that galls me is that as someone who protested against the Iraq war, was reviled for being a "raggy lover", was told I was naive and stupid to distrusting the government at the time, I now have to listen to people talking about something that, 19 years on, is only being brought up as a distraction from the current self-inflicted misery the current government has got itself into. To top it, it's being done by an arch Conservative partisan who has cheerfully voted for a party that was full-throated in its support for the Iraq war. At every single fucking election between now and then. The wretched self-abasement of HYUFD is usually comedic, but on occasions it touches a nerve.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
I'm sure HY has a mental image of north east pit villages resembling something from Midsomer Murders.
I suppose they are similar when it comes to the crime rate.
The article states "People could not leave their homes without a reasonable excuse, which included work (where you couldn't work from home), exercise and getting things like food and medicine."
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
I wouldn't normally go down this route but I suggest you put a sock in it. Stop coming out with this drivel.
Have some grace and humility, self-awareness and honesty.
It's also not true. Discussing work wouldn't put you in the clear as it would depend on what the primary purpose of the gathering was. In some of the Downing Street events this has been unclear but not this time. The invitation makes it clear that the gathering was meant to be social which would have contravened the law. I suppose Boris could say that he was holding a work meeting in the garden independently of the party but then he'd still then face questions about how he let it continue.
What astounds me, but maybe it shouldn't, is the sheer inability to learn the lessons of the last scandal. Over and over again.
Whenever something comes up it's the same arrogant reflex. Dismiss the accusations, prevaricate, send out ministers to defend the indefensible. Then seem surprised (and irritated) when it doesn't work.
Why? Perhaps because they got away with it over Brexit, and then once with Cummings? Unlike Brexit they can't count on the tribal loyalty of half of the country.
It’s worked so far. Still in the hot seat isn’t he. He’ll think all he needs to do is wait it out a few weeks and hope something comes up, like Putin invading Ukraine or some such, to see him past the May locals and into summer recess.
Or the unholy double... Putin invades Ukraine, and China invades Taiwan during the Olympics, with tens of thousands of foreign hostages guests.
Oh dear, just when you think Labour might be edging towards becoming a credible government-in-waiting again, they blow all that credibility on this utterly daft idea of cutting VAT on fuel - just about the most inefficient measure anyone could come up with to address the problem.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
For people tracking Covid numbers (I think there are a few people doing so on here) are you aware fo the absolutely gigantic change that's happening for the Scotland numbers from Thursday
On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
Interesting: what's the largest "village" in Britain. Somewhere like Hampstead, Kew or Wimbledon probably, if they count. Or one of the pretty coastal towns that still calls itself a "fishing village", like Brixham.
The Wikipedia version lists Bradfield (popn 17,100) as the largest "civil parish".
Bembridge on the island claimed to be the largest village in England, based on some past census, but I am not convinced the claim stands up
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
I have held many events for my business over the years. Business was often discussed, but they were still parties. If I had said to my employees to BYOB they would have known it was a party. If I had said BYOB in lockdown they would have known I was trying to break the rules, which would have not happened because leaders do not encourage staff to partake in rule, policy and law breaking. It is why the oaf that your swear such grovelling fealty to should do the proper thing and resign.
Don Corleone did plenty of business at his daughter’s wedding. Was still a party though wasn’t it.
It’s an intriguing question whether if BoJo survived a party VONC, he would subsequently survive a parliamentary one. There’s got to be 40 Tory MPs that are so aghast by the lies and debasement of high office that they’re prepared to set the party on fire to burn away the rot.
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.
who is the creepy pervert one
Roman.
I meant in the cabinet
Can you narrow it down slightly?
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in Successsion
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
To back you up on this, when my village got to over 11,000, it applied to/asked to become a town. Apparently there are many advantages to being a town as opposed to a village.
30,000 is one heck of a big village.
Its not that big. "Houghton-le-Spring" as a postal address is that big. But that includes all the neighbouring places as well.
Point is that HYUFD said "no villages in Sunderland". But there are. Newbottle - counted as Houghton - is a village without any argument over definitions of town vs village. Ryhope another one over in Sunderland Central. To name a couple.
(Snip)
Yes, and my town has three villages. Many people refer to them as such: "We're in Lower Cambourne," and the addresses are put as 'Lower Cambourne,', when the whole place is Cambourne from a bureaucratic pov. Soon it'll be four 'villages' in a town, with a fifth very probable...
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Talking of which, “the Coming Storm” podcast series on BBC sounds is a concerning listen, examining how the QAnon conspiracy movement in the US started and gathered strength, with lots of interviews with US loons including many in positions of influence, concluding with the chilling prediction that Trump was just the start….
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I know - again I lived there for 3 years. But are talking Houghton village or "Houghton-le-Spring" which includes Fencehouses and Newbottle and Hetton etc?
I could have made the same point up the road in Washington. The village of Washington is part of the town of Washington. But it is a village. Just go there. Like HYUFD hasn't.
And all this because his colleague who is Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association called for the PM to quit and our Essicks Welsh Nationalist poster needs to discredit the man to save the PM.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
Is there any proof Boris did break the law? Those in No 10 in 2020 were all working, there is no proof they did not discuss work at all even when drinking outside and no photos of Boris at this drinks too anyway.
As I stated Cameron did break the law when he took Cannabis at Eton, he did not resign. Blair arguably broke the law when he took us into war in Iraq against international law, he did not resign either
Its a simple question. Should the PM - any PM - have to resign if they are caught breaking the law? This is about simple principles.
If they have flagrantly broken the law and thought they would get away with it yes. If they broke the law as a result of not paying normal attention to detail that one would expect (negligently) then yes. If they hope the law will be applied differently to them than others than yes. If there is a strong appearance of any of these areas then the answer is yes, even if they are not convicted.
Johnson should resign. Anyone who believes in proper moral conduct of our politicians should expect him to resign.
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.
who is the creepy pervert one
Roman.
I meant in the cabinet
Can you narrow it down slightly?
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in Successsion
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂
F*** off and keep doing it scumbag
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.
Oh dear, just when you think Labour might be edging towards becoming a credible government-in-waiting again, they blow all that credibility on this utterly daft idea of cutting VAT on fuel - just about the most inefficient measure anyone could come up with to address the problem.
Not if you take the political perspective that something significant will have to be done for the poor, and something less significant will have to be done for everyone to prevent them moaning about the former. Removing VAT on fuel, temporarily, is perfect for the latter.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
Interesting: what's the largest "village" in Britain. Somewhere like Hampstead, Kew or Wimbledon probably, if they count. Or one of the pretty coastal towns that still calls itself a "fishing village", like Brixham.
The Wikipedia version lists Bradfield (popn 17,100) as the largest "civil parish".
Shepshed used to have a claim as the largest village in England.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Talking of which, “the Coming Storm” podcast series on BBC sounds is a concerning listen, examining how the QAnon conspiracy movement in the US started and gathered strength, with lots of interviews with US loons including many in positions of influence, concluding with the chilling prediction that Trump was just the start….
Yes there is an end of imperial rome feel to politics these days. Who are the modern Byanztines I wonder, carrying the torch forward?
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Talking of which, “the Coming Storm” podcast series on BBC sounds is a concerning listen, examining how the QAnon conspiracy movement in the US started and gathered strength, with lots of interviews with US loons including many in positions of influence, concluding with the chilling prediction that Trump was just the start….
Yes there is an end of imperial rome feel to politics these days. Who are the modern Byanztines I wonder, carrying the torch forward?
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.
who is the creepy pervert one
Roman.
I meant in the cabinet
Can you narrow it down slightly?
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in Successsion
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂
F*** off and keep doing it scumbag
Your powers of debate adequately demonstrating your level intellect once again I see.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Note that only one of the names he cites has to be a village for your statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" to be wrong. Shiney Row, Newbottle, and New Herrington seem to be villages indeed.
Therefore the statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" is wrong.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I know - again I lived there for 3 years. But are talking Houghton village or "Houghton-le-Spring" which includes Fencehouses and Newbottle and Hetton etc?
I could have made the same point up the road in Washington. The village of Washington is part of the town of Washington. But it is a village. Just go there. Like HYUFD hasn't.
And all this because his colleague who is Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association called for the PM to quit and our Essicks Welsh Nationalist poster needs to discredit the man to save the PM.
The Galleries in Washington can be more accurately described as a nuclear wasteland than a village
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
It was Trump who much more fundamentally and brazenly shifted the Overton window, into open, ironic pride at bad behaviour, I would say, and shamelessness, and it was Trump with whom Johnson had a much more friendly and direct connection, for quite a significant period.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference over Barnard Castle, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at 'elites'.
In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
I know - again I lived there for 3 years. But are talking Houghton village or "Houghton-le-Spring" which includes Fencehouses and Newbottle and Hetton etc?
I could have made the same point up the road in Washington. The village of Washington is part of the town of Washington. But it is a village. Just go there. Like HYUFD hasn't.
And all this because his colleague who is Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association called for the PM to quit and our Essicks Welsh Nationalist poster needs to discredit the man to save the PM.
The Galleries in Washington can be more accurately described as a nuclear wasteland than a village
Washington Village is actually rather nice - but as you say it's not that representative of the rest of Washington which is a New Town in love of it's roundabouts.
For people tracking Covid numbers (I think there are a few people doing so on here) are you aware fo the absolutely gigantic change that's happening for the Scotland numbers from Thursday
On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.
I wonder how many people were prosecuted or at least cautioned for having parties in their gardens in the same time period?
At the end of May 2020 I would say very few, you were allowed to go to the beach, parks, play sports etc, why would the police bother? I certainly went to see lots of friends/relatives in their gardens during that period and I am sure millions of people did.
This is a useful timeline of the lockdowns during the pandemic.
In late May 2020 we were only slowly starting to re-emerge from full on lockdown. In late May all non-essential retail remained closed, schools were closed, people couldn't visit relatives in hospitals or care homes. The first time we saw any friends on home soil was sometime in June: a couple came and sat in our back garden, around 5 metres away from us. They walked through the side return and didn't go into the house. I remember us wiping down the seats with disinfectants before and after. All rather OTT, but those were the rules.
I think we forget how late the lockdown started and ended compared with the 2021 version. Mid May 2020 was still in the heart of it.
I wonder how many people were prosecuted or at least cautioned for having parties in their gardens in the same time period?
At the end of May 2020 I would say very few, you were allowed to go to the beach, parks, play sports etc, why would the police bother? I certainly went to see lots of friends/relatives in their gardens during that period and I am sure millions of people did.
Some would regard your lack of respect for the efforts others were making reprehensible, but you neither drew up the rules, told others to abide by them, nor are not required to set an example, so your stupidity is not a parallel. Congratulations, though on being one of the few people to defend the indefensible.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
For people tracking Covid numbers (I think there are a few people doing so on here) are you aware fo the absolutely gigantic change that's happening for the Scotland numbers from Thursday
On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.
Sounds sensible. Sweden made that change about 10 days ago.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Ruth Davidson beat him to it.
Scottish Tories moving further to distance themselves from Westminster, wonder if this is a blip,or a trend,
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Talking of which, “the Coming Storm” podcast series on BBC sounds is a concerning listen, examining how the QAnon conspiracy movement in the US started and gathered strength, with lots of interviews with US loons including many in positions of influence, concluding with the chilling prediction that Trump was just the start….
Yes there is an end of imperial rome feel to politics these days. Who are the modern Byanztines I wonder, carrying the torch forward?
And like the slow end of Imperial Rome we're not heading for a new, like for like world boss taking over but for a period of multipolar jostling. China will not become a global hegemon, nor will India or any other large state. The only viable candidates on the horizon at the moment are one or two corporations.
In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
It was Trump who much more fundamentally and brazenly shifted the Overton window, into open, ironic pride at bad behaviour, I would say, and shamelessness, and it was Trump with whom Johnson had a much more friendly and direct connection, for quite a significant period.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at elites.
Blair would never have been so stupid to leave himself so vulnerable to something like this. His political antennae was too cute for that. His game was played in smoke filled rooms rather than in the open. Trump as you say, just didn’t care. We know plenty now about what Johnson has been up to while following the Trump model, but not much yet on what he may have done under the Blair model.
It’s hard to remember the Cummings press conference now. In my memory he said he was sorry but perhaps I’m misremembering it. Cherie certainly gave a grovelling apology about those flats. BoJo hasn’t apologised, which is very weak indeed.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair. Right. I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
HY will have a go. Never been to either but is absolutely confident that what he has just Googled is a more representative truth than the actual residents.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Talking of which, “the Coming Storm” podcast series on BBC sounds is a concerning listen, examining how the QAnon conspiracy movement in the US started and gathered strength, with lots of interviews with US loons including many in positions of influence, concluding with the chilling prediction that Trump was just the start….
Yes there is an end of imperial rome feel to politics these days. Who are the modern Byanztines I wonder, carrying the torch forward?
And like the slow end of Imperial Rome we're not heading for a new, like for like world boss taking over but for a period of multipolar jostling. China will not become a global hegemon, nor will India or any other large state. The only viable candidates on the horizon at the moment are one or two corporations.
Yup that’s probably what we’re looking at now. A real life Weyland-Yutani.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
It was Trump who much more fundamentally and brazenly shifted the Overton window, into open, ironic pride at bad behaviour, I would say, and shamelessness, and it was Trump with whom Johnson had a much more friendly and direct connection, for quite a significant period.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference over Barnard Castle, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at 'elites'.
Putin too - mastered the move from plausible deniability to the new artform of implausible deniability. The Cummings defence was, to me, pure "visiting Salisbury for its famous cathedral spire".
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
Sunak, Javid and Baker shortening in Next PM market. Gove lengthening.
Javid is Kendal from Succession. Superficially plausible successor who fundamentally lacks balls.
who is the creepy pervert one
Roman.
I meant in the cabinet
Can you narrow it down slightly?
who among all of the many the likely candidates was most like the sleazy pervert Roman in Successsion
Lol. The number one unquestioning fanboy of the creepy fat little man who was described by his QC as a "bully and sex pest" refers to another politician as "sleezy pervert". 😂😂😂😂😂😂
F*** off and keep doing it scumbag
Interesting how he, on the one hand is happy to continually have a go at you and how,you respond to some posters yet, on the other hand, is quite happy to troll and bait you for replies.
I think it is unfair to say I continually have a go at him, I just have a go at him when I notice he is either unnecessarily rude to others or writes a load of crap. That is of course most of his posts, which as I am not on here all the time I don't get the pleasure of taking the piss out of continually. Nice of you to defend him, though I can reassure you he doesn't deserve your kindness.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Blair might have shifted it but Johnson has taken it out and moved it to another building.
The PM has one loyal fan on here. Perhaps we should ask him whether he agrees with the simple question of "if the PM breaks the law will he resign?"
Never mind this PM, take ANY PM. If the Prime Minister is caught breaking the law should they resign?
Should a PM have resigned for taking drugs then in the past? We know Cameron was fined and grounded by Eton for taking cannabis and that was illegal then and still illegal. Blair you could argue took us into a war that was illegal under international law, he did not resign.
Having an outdoor drinks break with other No 10 staff legally working is murkier as to whether it was illegal or not depending on whether they were discussing work at all. Of course now you could have 1,000 people in your garden perfectly legally as Covid restrictions have eased
Cameron broke the law many years before he was PM. Blair very strongly argues he did not break the law, and was never charged or apparently close to charging.
In terms of your comment "Of course now..." that is jaw-droppingly daft, even for you. You can have a crowd at a football match now... but if Torquay United had tried that in May 2020, there would have been arrests. It also wasn't "murky" in May 2020 - there was absolutely no question of employers thinking they could organise BYOB drinks events in the car park, whether or not anyone mentioned the big contract at any point. People would have said they were crackers for even contemplating it.
What is your position, HYUFD, if the Police do finally decide to issue some fines? I don't think Dick will, but does it constitute a resigning matter? Johnson would have been demonstrated to have broken the law whilst PM - is that a resigning matter?
It would have to be proved that Johnson not only attended this drinks party outside but did not discuss work at all whilst there to prove he broke the law in May 2020
I have held many events for my business over the years. Business was often discussed, but they were still parties. If I had said to my employees to BYOB they would have known it was a party. If I had said BYOB in lockdown they would have known I was trying to break the rules, which would have not happened because leaders do not encourage staff to partake in rule, policy and law breaking. It is why the oaf that your swear such grovelling fealty to should do the proper thing and resign.
Don Corleone did plenty of business at his daughter’s wedding. Was still a party though wasn’t it.
It’s an intriguing question whether if BoJo survived a party VONC, he would subsequently survive a parliamentary one. There’s got to be 40 Tory MPs that are so aghast by the lies and debasement of high office that they’re prepared to set the party on fire to burn away the rot.
I'm not sure it would be setting the party on fire. It is tough to win an election if you are in power and change leaders, but the Tories have really proved it can be done. Whether you approve or not (I don't obviously) Boris did what they wanted re Brexit. They now need to move on to a more electable leader in new circumstances. From a purely party political point of view as a LD I want Boris to stay. For all other reasons he should go.
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Ruth Davidson beat him to it.
Scottish Tories moving further to distance themselves from Westminster, wonder if this is a blip,or a trend,
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
Blair might have shifted it but Johnson has taken it out and moved it to another building.
He's no David Lloyd George, actually I have a piece coming up soon that actually says Boris Johnson is the new David Lloyd George.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair. Right. I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
Hasn’t realised you carried such a candle for St Tony, sorry for besmirching his good name. What a needlessly aggressive chop you are.
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
It was Trump who much more fundamentally and brazenly shifted the Overton window, into open, ironic pride at bad behaviour, I would say, and shamelessness, and it was Trump with whom Johnson had a much more friendly and direct connection, for quite a significant period.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-'s winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at elites.
Blair would never have been so stupid to leave himself so vulnerable to something like this. His political antennae was too cute for that. His game was played in smoke filled rooms rather than in the open. Trump as you say, just didn’t care. We know plenty now about what Johnson has been up to while following the Trump model, but not much yet on what he may have done under the Blair model.
It’s hard to remember the Cummings press conference now. In my memory he said he was sorry but perhaps I’m misremembering it. Cherie certainly gave a grovelling apology about those flats. BoJo hasn’t apologised, which is very weak indeed.
Blair's stance on Iraq I think was almost from a Nixonian, dissembling era by comparison. As you say the Trump model is to tough it out and not to care - but also, crucially, to appeal your audience's cynicism, sense of irony and glee in doing so.
This is exactly what Cummings did with his confrontaitonally ridiculous "testing his eyesight" press conference ; it was deliberately, provocatively cynical. It's all nonsense and we're all compromised, but I'm just less sanctimonious that you liberal do-gooders and "elites" about it.
This has, roughly, been Johnson's model, in dealing with trouble.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
It was Trump who much more fundamentally and brazenly shifted the Overton window, into open, ironic pride at bad behaviour, I would say, and shamelessness, and it was Trump with whom Johnson had a much more friendly and direct connection, for quite a significant period.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference over Barnard Castle, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at 'elites'.
Putin too - mastered the move from plausible deniability to the new artform of implausible deniability. The Cummings defence was, to me, pure "visiting Salisbury for its famous cathedral spire".
Not really. Putin was just following the playbook of crapulent denials. See all the incidents of Soviet Union/Russia murdering it's citizens abroad. Which starting in 1920.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
Interesting: what's the largest "village" in Britain. Somewhere like Hampstead, Kew or Wimbledon probably, if they count. Or one of the pretty coastal towns that still calls itself a "fishing village", like Brixham.
The Wikipedia version lists Bradfield (popn 17,100) as the largest "civil parish".
Sheffield is known as the biggest village in the world.
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Ruth Davidson beat him to it.
Scottish Tories moving further to distance themselves from Westminster, wonder if this is a blip,or a trend,
It is a sensible trend for the time being.
Yes it is, I wonder if the Welsh Tories will do the same.
I have no idea whether Boris will survive as PM to the next election.
I voted for him as party leader on the basis that I thought he would break the logjam on Brexit and be an effective communicator on TV, which I believe is the key factor now in winning elections. I knew he was not by my standards a moral man, but felt that many great leaders of the past would also have failed that test. In a contest against Corbyn he would be the better man, and in the GE it was clear that the majority agreed with me.
Now I see someone who is cleverer than his opponents suggest but who acts the fool because the general public don't like a swot. However I also see someone who has the childish trait of wanting to be liked and who will try anything to get out of trouble. More Just William than Bunter.
That trait is disastrous in a PM. You cannot change position based on the last person who talks to you. You cannot have your wife as a key policy advisor. You cannot act as if you are playing student politics when you have control of nuclear weapons. You cannot treat rescuing dogs from Kabul as more important than rescuing people who worked for us in Afghanistan. You cannot be a Conservative leader and expect credit for enacting most of Ed Miliband's manifesto.
So I am done with him. While he deserves credit for getting us through the worst stretch of the pandemic, he doesn't have the ability to get a grip and get cracking with levelling up or really building back better or whatever it is we need to do. New leader please*.
* Caveat: if he is a lucky general and survives to beat Labour at the next election, my inner Tory will be happy while my intellectual One Nation Tory will feel very very dirty and slightly ashamed. I suspect many of you will understand that.
Revolt coming from Scottish Tories on Downing St parties. Douglas Ross expected to do a broadcast round mid-afternoon amid "widespread anger" in the party. Sources say it will be a "straightforward response": "People need answers now. This can’t wait for an inquiry." https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1480850278467440644
Obvs not a real Tory either. Lacks the necessary mussel byssus glue level adherence to the party line. He'll be voting for independence next (albeit only for the SCons, not for the other inhabitants of Scotland).
If a church makes a hamlet a village, and a cathedral makes a town a city, what makes a village a town?
In the case of Houghton, the post office. Combine a load of pit villages of varying sizes together and hey presto the postal "town" of Houghton-le-Spring. Was always glad I didn't live down the road as its postal address was: X Street Hetton-le-Hole Houghton-le-Spring DH4 XYZ
For people tracking Covid numbers (I think there are a few people doing so on here) are you aware fo the absolutely gigantic change that's happening for the Scotland numbers from Thursday
On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.
Sounds sensible. Sweden made that change about 10 days ago.
It means we are in a fake dip at the moment.
People stopped having to get PCRs from the 6th. Every days since then has been a "fall". We are now on day 3 of ~40% week-on-week falls but there must be a wohle pile of positive LFDs that are not in the current data.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair. Right. I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
Point of order: I believe Major's affair occurred before he had high office. He and Edwina ended the affair in 1988, and he didn't become leader until a couple of years later.
In Italy, the news that politicians had been partying while they were in lockdown would be met with a shrug, and voters would simply go back to focusing on how to pay less tax. Despite the grief of the current political crisis, the fact of our being able to have it is actually a good thing.
England becomes more like Italy every day. Without the sun. Or the food. Or wine. Or architecture. Or the fine clothes, fragrances and bella figura. Or the azure sea and stunning coastline.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
HY will have a go. Never been to either but is absolutely confident that what he has just Googled is a more representative truth than the actual residents.
IIRC (and I might be mis-remembering) when I lived up there Houghton-le-Spring had a significant Communist party. I'm sure that's not the case now.
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Note that only one of the names he cites has to be a village for your statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" to be wrong. Shiney Row, Newbottle, and New Herrington seem to be villages indeed.
Therefore the statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" is wrong.
Herrington is part of the Metropolitan city of Sunderland, not really a village.
It does not have its own parish council for starters
Chair of Sunderland Conservatives says Boris has to go. For this "atrocity".
HYUFD will be along to explain how the Chair of Sunderland Conservatives is actually not a True Tory and actually the red wall will only vote for Boris and actually where is Sunderland anyway actually.
Every MP in Sunderland is already Labour
Yeah, but the Tories in Sunderland are not much different to the Tories in Blyth and North Durham and Sedgefield and Redcar, etc.
They are significantly different to many of them, plenty of rural Tory voters in Sedgefield or North Durham for instance, no rural Tory voters in Sunderland
There are a lot, just not enough to give the Tories a seat in 2019 (or ever given that 2019 will be the high watermark for the Tory party now Boris has destroyed it).
There are no villages in any Sunderland seat
Laughable. There are no villages in "Houghton and Sunderland South"? I used to live there. Houghton-le-Spring is a village. Hetton-le-Hole. Shiney Row. Newbottle. New Herrington. And how do you know the farmers don't vote Tory?
You don't have talk some fact-free bollocks. Have you ever stopped and thought "I don't actually know anything at all about this, best to keep my comments specific"?
Generally a settlement with a population of 10-50,000 is a town, a settlement with a population of 100,000+ is a city, as is a settlement of 50-100,000 with a cathedral.
A settlement with a population of under 10,000 is only generally counted as a village
Houghton only has a population of 36k because they now include neighbouring settlements like Hetton and Newbottle into it.
I do appreciate your lecture on my former home that you have never visited though, very insightful.
And my town is made up of three separate villages, albeit ones built pretty much at the same time, with only one route between the three.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
A town in a city? How does that work? I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
City of Sunderland is a Metropolitan District as well as being a city.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
I've driven through Ilkley and it looked like the kind of place that wouldn't want to be considered part of Bradford.
Afzal Khan calls the PM a liar and the speaker decides to "let that one go".
An open door for PMQs tomorrow. Ask the question were you there yes or no? Get bluster. Get incandescent ranting of the kind Boris gives off when he's losing in. Then call him a liar. Just do it. When the lie is this egregious and so self-evident, time tocall a lie a lie and cope with the suspension if it's actually issued.
Actually Starmer being suspended for calling Johnson a liar over this would extend the coverage even further. So a good idea.
No, it would be a mistake for the LOTO to make himself the story, especially by behaviour not following the rules
There’s good reason for the rules on Parliamentary language - as we occasionally see here, and often see on other forums.
If one can’t make his point without using such unparliamentary language, then they shouldn’t be in Parliament.
There are always ways of saying that the minister has been untruthful, without expliticly using certain words.
It is one thing to have a PM who lies. It's quite another to have one who lies, knowing that the whole country knows that he's lying, and expecting everyone just to ignore the fact.
(Snip)
The 45 minutes claim didn't finish Blair off, and it can be argued that was far more disastrous for the country than a Downing Street party.
Silly non sequitur
Yes, the 45 minute claim was much, much worse than any lie Johnson has made.
To be clear: Boris should go. In fact, my position has always been that he was unsuitable to be PM. I was sadly proved correct.
But at least I don't try and excuse the inexcusable, as many do with Blair.
Blair shifted the Overton window on acceptable behaviour for a leader. And the debasement in politics has carried on from there.
So... is Tonty Blair behind this?
lol of course not (but he did seem to enjoy a political renaissance in the early days of covid).
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
So you don't remember 1992 to 1997 then? You'll enjoy reading about it, let us know when you've had a little look and we can all have a laugh about your comment together.
As far as I can recall, Major himself didn’t get caught up in scandal, deceit or illegality (not counting Edwina!), even as those around him fell into a moral oblivion.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
So the "onsest of rot in standards" is a statement only about leaders and once you've left out Major's affair. Right. I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
Point of order: I believe Major's affair occurred before he had high office. He and Edwina ended the affair in 1988, and he didn't become leader until a couple of years later.
A useful correction, thanks, but the idea of saying that rot only exists when the leader is a problem is still a case of selective blindness.
Comments
https://www.tatler.com/article/joan-collins-night-out-at-oswalds
Odd URL btw. Oswald's (the club) is owned by Robin Birley, one of Boris's cheque-writers and owner of wherever it was Liz Truss took her American guests in last week's scandal.
First line on Wikipedia: "Houghton-le-Spring is a town in the City of Sunderland."
The Wikipedia version lists Bradfield (popn 17,100) as the largest "civil parish".
To top it, it's being done by an arch Conservative partisan who has cheerfully voted for a party that was full-throated in its support for the Iraq war. At every single fucking election between now and then.
The wretched self-abasement of HYUFD is usually comedic, but on occasions it touches a nerve.
I suppose they are similar when it comes to the crime rate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59577129
The article states "People could not leave their homes without a reasonable excuse, which included work (where you couldn't work from home), exercise and getting things like food and medicine."
This is completely incorrect.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/11/china-says-its-lunar-rover-has-found-proof-of-water-on-the-moon-15897303/
I've got a mate who lives in Houghton-le-Spring and I think he's always referred to it as a village, FWIW.
On 5 January 2022, the Scottish Government announced that people who do not have symptoms will no longer be asked to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to confirm a positive Lateral Flow Device (LFD) result. Instead, anyone with a positive LFD, who does not have symptoms, should report the result online as soon as the test is done. In order to ensure that we continue to provide the most accurate information, changes have been made to the national COVID-19 case definition to reflect this revised testing strategy. At present, we report on PCR tests only. From Thursday 13 January, we will begin reporting on the number of people with a COVID-19 infection confirmed by either a first LFD or PCR positive test.
It’s an intriguing question whether if BoJo survived a party VONC, he would subsequently survive a parliamentary one. There’s got to be 40 Tory MPs that are so aghast by the lies and debasement of high office that they’re prepared to set the party on fire to burn away the rot.
But there was the definite onset of rot in standards, even in his first term, a function of the massive majority and ego feeding media and public reception I suppose.
I could have made the same point up the road in Washington. The village of Washington is part of the town of Washington. But it is a village. Just go there. Like HYUFD hasn't.
And all this because his colleague who is Chair of Sunderland Conservative Association called for the PM to quit and our Essicks Welsh Nationalist poster needs to discredit the man to save the PM.
Johnson should resign. Anyone who believes in proper moral conduct of our politicians should expect him to resign.
Shiney Row, Newbottle, and New Herrington seem to be villages indeed.
Therefore the statement "There are no villages in any Sunderland seat" is wrong.
The Cummings Rose Garden press conference over Barnard Castle, shortly after this party, was pure Trumpism ; shameless, eye-winking cynicism and provocation, mixed with pot-shots at 'elites'.
It was Blair and co who launched the age of spin, the Ecclestone affair being the first of many sordid episodes directly linked to No 10.
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection/viz/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary
fwiw I think the Scottish approach is more correct.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/timeline-lockdown-web.pdf
In late May 2020 we were only slowly starting to re-emerge from full on lockdown. In late May all non-essential retail remained closed, schools were closed, people couldn't visit relatives in hospitals or care homes. The first time we saw any friends on home soil was sometime in June: a couple came and sat in our back garden, around 5 metres away from us. They walked through the side return and didn't go into the house. I remember us wiping down the seats with disinfectants before and after. All rather OTT, but those were the rules.
I think we forget how late the lockdown started and ended compared with the 2021 version. Mid May 2020 was still in the heart of it.
We have the same here with City of Bradford. Try telling the folk in Ilkley that they live in Bradford!
It’s hard to remember the Cummings press conference now. In my memory he said he was sorry but perhaps I’m misremembering it. Cherie certainly gave a grovelling apology about those flats. BoJo hasn’t apologised, which is very weak indeed.
It is the birthplace of the greatest manager the United Kingdom has ever produced.
Right.
I'm glad we've got your keen analysis down in black and white, without it, where would we be?
As if there's any point any more.
I couldn’t personally care less about politicians’ sex lives but I grant you that the puritans among us might see that differently. It’s widely held that Major was basically an honourable man. Personally I think he was a cack PM and the British public agreed with that in 1997. But that’s not what we’re talking about
This is exactly what Cummings did with his confrontaitonally ridiculous "testing his eyesight" press conference ; it was deliberately, provocatively cynical. It's all nonsense and we're all compromised, but I'm just less sanctimonious that you liberal do-gooders and "elites" about it.
This has, roughly, been Johnson's model, in dealing with trouble.
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1480894491481497602
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-news-live-latest-uk-downing-street-party-boris-johnson-lockdown-omicron-coronavirus-12507015
I voted for him as party leader on the basis that I thought he would break the logjam on Brexit and be an effective communicator on TV, which I believe is the key factor now in winning elections. I knew he was not by my standards a moral man, but felt that many great leaders of the past would also have failed that test. In a contest against Corbyn he would be the better man, and in the GE it was clear that the majority agreed with me.
Now I see someone who is cleverer than his opponents suggest but who acts the fool because the general public don't like a swot. However I also see someone who has the childish trait of wanting to be liked and who will try anything to get out of trouble. More Just William than Bunter.
That trait is disastrous in a PM. You cannot change position based on the last person who talks to you. You cannot have your wife as a key policy advisor. You cannot act as if you are playing student politics when you have control of nuclear weapons. You cannot treat rescuing dogs from Kabul as more important than rescuing people who worked for us in Afghanistan. You cannot be a Conservative leader and expect credit for enacting most of Ed Miliband's manifesto.
So I am done with him. While he deserves credit for getting us through the worst stretch of the pandemic, he doesn't have the ability to get a grip and get cracking with levelling up or really building back better or whatever it is we need to do. New leader please*.
* Caveat: if he is a lucky general and survives to beat Labour at the next election, my inner Tory will be happy while my intellectual One Nation Tory will feel very very dirty and slightly ashamed. I suspect many of you will understand that.
X Street
Hetton-le-Hole
Houghton-le-Spring
DH4 XYZ
Too many -le-'s
People stopped having to get PCRs from the 6th. Every days since then has been a "fall". We are now on day 3 of ~40% week-on-week falls but there must be a wohle pile of positive LFDs that are not in the current data.
It does not have its own parish council for starters
A full copy of our letter is below. https://twitter.com/CovidJusticeUK/status/1480910562397765633/photo/1