YouGov polls: From Hartlepool to North Shropshire – politicalbetting.com

tlg86 said:

Endillion said:

Scott_xP said:

This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.

But then it should make them stop and think about the whole thing. What if an anti-vaxxer MP spreads COVID to my MP and kills them? How is that good for democracy?

maaarsh said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

JohnLilburne said:

IshmaelZ said:

Chris said:

Stocky said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.

And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".

But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.

I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.

The biggest risk is getting pinged.

Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.

Does anyone still use track and trace?

No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.

A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?

Nasty case of paid leave.

Endillion said:

Simon_Peach said:

Daily Boosters: 513,722
Current Leader: @Endillion
All entries still in the competition (i.e. could still win)

Stop the count!

Edit: for the avoidance of doubt, mine was mostly a joke entry, and I hope very much it doesn't win.

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

JohnLilburne said:

IshmaelZ said:

Chris said:

Stocky said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.

And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".

But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.

I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.

The biggest risk is getting pinged.

Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.

Does anyone still use track and trace?

No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.

A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?

Farooq said:

Carnyx said:

Endillion said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Endillion said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

BannedinnParis said:

"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."

DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE

If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.

We did see them fall.

Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.

Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?

Lol

Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.

Peak 47,114 (21/07), trough 25,722 (02/08), peak 38,459 (09/09), trough 28.928 (17/09), peak 47,209 (23/10), trough 33,477 (10/11), peak 51,176 (13/12).

When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.

You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)

Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?

16 July 47,970.4
13 September 28,540.4

So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.

You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?

You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.

More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.

You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.

We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.

Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.

Why would it keep falling? Schools reopened! Then it became winter.

You are utterly delusional. Had we not had the exit wave we would have seen exponential growth with schools open, no restrictions and winter. To keep levels flat, while circumstances are getting worse, is proof that the wave has happened.

I'm not an expert on waves, but I don't think they're supposed to peak, and then just keep going at the level of the peak indefinitely.

One reason waves in the water form the pattern they do is the ground level is rising which causes the water to rise too.

In the UK since lifting lockdown the ground level for Covid's spread has been rising: Schools reopened, summer ended, winter began. And yet despite the ground level rising, the cases have been flat. Why?

The only reason the cases have been flat despite the higher ground level, is that the prior wave had just happened.

Imagine if it was the other way around, starting in winter with schools open, then going into spring, then summer, then the schools closed over summer holidays - if cases were flat over that, then you'd be confused why.

To have cases flat, while the ground level to boost Covid is getting higher, is proof that the wave had happened, not proof it didn't.

It's proof that the wave isn't over yet, which is proof that the (presumed) prior belief that it would crest and then break was wrong. In short, it is now conclusively proven to be Not a Wave.

Look at it another way: six months ago, was anyone predicting an "exit wave" that got stuck around 50k cases reported per day for months on end, if restrictions lifted?

Waves is funny things. One never knows, the dynamics muight have generatyed a soliton which moves forward as quickly as we do in time: see this ship in a canal 2:30 ON.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D14QuUL8x60

I think I understood this. Waves travel through time, meaning that a wave can happen before the event that caused it.
I think I could squeeze a paper out of this and it'll make a big splash.

Flatlander said:

Carnyx said:

Flatlander said:

Malmesbury said:

dixiedean said:

LostPassword said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/motorist-jailed-for-running-over-cyclist-who-spat-on-his-car

18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.

Violent criminal who is "one of us."
Not "one of them."
Aside from the sentence.
3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon?
If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.

A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"

I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"

Quite.

You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.

Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?

Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)

You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...

Pulpstar said:

I note Aaron hasn't raised his head above the parapet so I presume he's voting with the Gov't.

maaarsh said:

Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.

Philip_Thompson said:

glw said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?

Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?

Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.

If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".

Good for them.

Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍

CarlottaVance said:

maaarsh said:

Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.

Positivity rate 4.6% - still within WHO guidelines, unlike some of our European peers (some of whom also appear to have significant data lags):

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?

Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?

Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.

glw said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?

Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?

Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.

If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".

Chris said:

rcs1000 said:

Chris said:

Eabhal said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.

The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.

Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.

Do you give a damn about anyone else?

Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.

It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.

Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?

The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".

Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).

Northern_Al said:

Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.

Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?

Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.

Stocky said:

Malmesbury said:

UK COVID Summary

Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups
Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good
Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.

Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).

tlg86 said:

glw said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?

Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?

Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.

If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".

I see New York has it bad again...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

TOPPING said:

Northern_Al said:

Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.

Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?

Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.

Oh so now you're a grandfather you've come over all wise and knowledgeable, eh?

Malmesbury said:

Stocky said:

Malmesbury said:

UK COVID Summary

Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups
Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good
Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.

Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).

Look at the regional graphs - that's why I posted them. An iron law of the epidemic is that what starts happening in a couple of regions, will be coming to your area. Real soon now....

IshmaelZ said:

Chris said:

rcs1000 said:

Chris said:

Eabhal said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.

The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.

Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.

Do you give a damn about anyone else?

Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.

It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.

Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?

The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".

Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).

Bit weak, mate.

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Flatlander said:

Carnyx said:

Flatlander said:

Malmesbury said:

dixiedean said:

LostPassword said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/motorist-jailed-for-running-over-cyclist-who-spat-on-his-car

18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.

Violent criminal who is "one of us."
Not "one of them."
Aside from the sentence.
3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon?
If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.

A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"

I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"

Quite.

You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.

Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?

Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)

You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...

Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!

Safer, generally.

A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.

Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.

The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.

Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.

Mortimer said:

rcs1000 said:

Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?

Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.

Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.

Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.

I went to Soho last night.

The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.

On a Monday.

My main impression so far:

Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.

I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Northern_Al said:

TOPPING said:

Northern_Al said:

Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.

Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?

Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.

Oh so now you're a grandfather you've come over all wise and knowledgeable, eh?

Very good. I was wise and knowledgeable before, but grandfather-hood has led to an exponential growth in my wisdom and knowledgeability. Sadly, it's not contagious.

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Moron.

Maffew said:

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Flatlander said:

Carnyx said:

Flatlander said:

Malmesbury said:

dixiedean said:

LostPassword said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/motorist-jailed-for-running-over-cyclist-who-spat-on-his-car

18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.

Violent criminal who is "one of us."
Not "one of them."
Aside from the sentence.
3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon?
If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.

A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"

I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"

Quite.

You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.

Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?

Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)

You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...

Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!

Safer, generally.

A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.

Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.

The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.

Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.

It's also narrow and you have to give way at side roads.

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Moron.

Anabobazina said:

Mortimer said:

rcs1000 said:

Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?

Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.

Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.

Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.

I went to Soho last night.

The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.

On a Monday.

My main impression so far:

Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.

I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.

Who exactly is going to enforce these vaxports? I suppose you could make them a sale condition of buying a round, which is not quite the same thing.

Pulpstar said:

What's the daily CONFIRMED Omicron number (No not Javid's) ?

Can't find it anywhere.

rcs1000 said:

Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?

Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.

Anabobazina said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.

pigeon said:

Philip_Thompson said:

glw said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?

Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?

Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.

If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".

Good for them.

Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍

Vaccines have indeed been rolled out, but the state of the vaccination programme varies wildly between the states.

According to the helpful resource provided by ourworldindata.org, as of yesterday the UK had delivered 178 doses per 100 people, versus 146 in the US. However, looking at the states individually, only one (Vermont, 190 doses/100 people) is ahead of us, whereas at the other end of the scale Idaho has only managed 110.

In short, if Britain, which has managed to get at least one dose into almost 90% of everyone over the age of 12, is meant to be in considerable peril from Omicron, the Americans may well be stuffed as TSE suggests.

Anabobazina said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.

Chris said:

IshmaelZ said:

Chris said:

rcs1000 said:

Chris said:

Eabhal said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.

The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.

Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.

Do you give a damn about anyone else?

Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.

It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.

Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?

The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".

Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).

Bit weak, mate.

Bit weak? Quoting the anti-vaccine crap I was replying to?

Jesus wept!

RochdalePioneers said:

Anabobazina said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.

"Fake news". We know for a fact that the "catch rate" of infections is a percentage of the total. The official number is estimated by them to be c. 40% of the total number of actual infections. And its true that they don't count reinfections.

So even if the reinfection rate is only say 8% higher than Delta, we can do the maths easily. 60k cases today is 40%, so 150k total. And as that number rises the 8% example (if thats correct) propels the gap higher and the % caught in the official figure gets lower.

Either way the 200k that was rounds mocked by some on here the other day sounds like its realistic based on this.

Anabobazina said:

Mortimer said:

rcs1000 said:

Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?

Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.

Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.

Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.

I went to Soho last night.

The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.

On a Monday.

My main impression so far:

Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.

I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.

Who exactly is going to enforce these vaxports? I suppose you could make them a sale condition of buying a round, which is not quite the same thing.

rcs1000 said:

Chris said:

rcs1000 said:

Chris said:

Eabhal said:

Chris said:

Mortimer said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Mortimer said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?

Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.

The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.

So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

Unacceptable.

Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?

@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.

The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.

Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.

Do you give a damn about anyone else?

Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.

It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.

Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?

The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".

Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).

Don't spout crap

Would you like to me to compare your forecasts for Covid cases in the UK with mine? And then we can talk about who has been talking crap.

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

eek said:

MaxPB said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.

Moron.

Really - we laughed when Robert Peston made the comment a while back but I don't think the methodology has changed.

No the moronic bit is suggesting that Omicron completely evades immunity from prior infection. We know that not to be true. RP is a moron and he's making things up to support his pro-lockdown forever view. I know he says otherwise but every post he makes is filled with the same bullshit zero COVID rhetoric from last year.

Yes the notion that prior infection provides zero protection against Omicron has to be the most absurd hysterical nonsense of this entire pandemic.

And he's inventing it because he wants to prove prior infections were a bad idea, not a good thing.

Either no intellectual honesty, or a complete moron.

CarlottaVance said:

Pulpstar said:

What's the daily CONFIRMED Omicron number (No not Javid's) ?

Can't find it anywhere.

It will appear here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings

Latest is yesterday's