"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
But that's exit to endemicity. Exactly what we need to do with COVID. It's what Chris Whitty outlined in the summer. The alternative is actually scary, we kept restrictions, kept cases down to under 5k, only 1-2m get it over the summer and autumn and bang, Omicron arrives with 8-10m people having no vaccine or natural immunity. Even if it hospitalised at a third of the rate of Delta, that's still means 400k-500k unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment in a very short space of time. Natural immunity in that cohort will cut that by 80%. Some European countries who dodged their exit waves are in for a really tough winter, they have got millions and millions of people with zero immunity.
Erm, the data on Omicron and the pants being shat demonstrates that we have the same lack of immunity to Omicron - hence the desperate push to do boosters this month.
Omicron has some immunity escape, its not 100% immunity escape. Jesus Christ. 🤦♂️
Some immunity escape means we are no longer sat on 40-50,000 cases a day but a higher number that many people seem to expect to get way higher over the next 2 weeks.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
But that's exit to endemicity. Exactly what we need to do with COVID. It's what Chris Whitty outlined in the summer. The alternative is actually scary, we kept restrictions, kept cases down to under 5k, only 1-2m get it over the summer and autumn and bang, Omicron arrives with 8-10m people having no vaccine or natural immunity. Even if it hospitalised at a third of the rate of Delta, that's still means 400k-500k unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment in a very short space of time. Natural immunity in that cohort will cut that by 80%. Some European countries who dodged their exit waves are in for a really tough winter, they have got millions and millions of people with zero immunity.
Erm, the data on Omicron and the pants being shat demonstrates that we have the same lack of immunity to Omicron - hence the desperate push to do boosters this month.
Omicron has some immunity escape, its not 100% immunity escape. Jesus Christ. 🤦♂️
Same as reinfections against natural immunity, it is believed to be still low single digits. Its just versus Delta, it is <1%.
The Labour argument is interesting. It's irrelevant how severe omicron is, and how effective the vaccines are at limiting severity. All that matters is that high prevalence will mean lots of NHS staff will have to isolate, and that on it's own justify any restrictions necessary to prevent it.
Glorious catch 22 position. Surely at some point the severity is low enough that they can end the pinging isolation.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Hate to break it to you, @Chris, but none of us are getting out of here alive....
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
But that's exit to endemicity. Exactly what we need to do with COVID. It's what Chris Whitty outlined in the summer. The alternative is actually scary, we kept restrictions, kept cases down to under 5k, only 1-2m get it over the summer and autumn and bang, Omicron arrives with 8-10m people having no vaccine or natural immunity. Even if it hospitalised at a third of the rate of Delta, that's still means 400k-500k unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment in a very short space of time. Natural immunity in that cohort will cut that by 80%. Some European countries who dodged their exit waves are in for a really tough winter, they have got millions and millions of people with zero immunity.
Erm, the data on Omicron and the pants being shat demonstrates that we have the same lack of immunity to Omicron - hence the desperate push to do boosters this month.
Omicron has some immunity escape, its not 100% immunity escape. Jesus Christ. 🤦♂️
Some immunity escape means we are no longer sat on 40-50,000 cases a day but a higher number that many people seem to expect to get way higher over the next 2 weeks.
Indeed, it is what it is.
We had our exit wave from restrictions in the summer. Then a follow on wave when schools reopened. Then an autumn wave, finally a winter wave. There was always likely to be a winter wave, even without Omicron.
Given the way Omicron is spreading so fast, we'll likely have a high Omicron winter wave, then things will start to turn around. We'll have had that, then we'll be moving on to the spring and summer next year.
The sooner we get through this Omicron wave the better in my opinion. No point dragging it out, but yes I expect it'll be higher than 40k. C'est la vie.
17 in total ....15 min wait time should have gone months and months ago. I believe also at least the initial 2-3, the people were already known to be susceptible to such issues.
I know I was asked when I got my shots had I ever had reactions to things like bee stings. And if you answered yes (bloke in front of me), out came a load more questions / forms.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?
This is nonsense. Very few people in the UK have no immunity. Most of the old have been boosted, so will have a pretty strong immune response.
I'd be surprised if the hospitalization rate was above 1%. My crude estimate of the hospitalization rate is that it was about 0.9% for Delta towards the end of November. (This compares to about 3.5% for Alpha at the peak last winter)
This could still be a problem if Omicron is as severe and spreads quickly enough. We'd need about 450,000 daily infections to hit last winter's peak admissions rate.
If Omicron is half as severe, though, then you'd need twice as many infections. The virus won't be able to sustain 900,000 daily infections for long, though, nor infect many more than that each day.
I think there's a good chance we can let this wash through the population, as per the original pandemic strategy. I'd expect supermarkets would need to concentrate on distribution of core goods only for a while, as widespread sickness absence would reduce transport capacity, but this is the scenario the pandemic plan prepared us for.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
AHHHHHHHHHH.
Nice one. You had me. It was the "Meeting Partners" in quotes that was the clumsy bit otherwise people would have thought you were serious and had some pretty serious issues about your own life. But excellent effort nevertheless
You are trolling and d'uh for me I fell for it. Kudos.
Your posts will now bring a deserved smile to my face.
Yes, each 15 minute wait was a super-spreading event waiting to happen.
If people have travelled by car then they could be asked to sit for 15 minutes and sound the horn for assistance, but I suppose that would be difficult at urban centres with limited parking.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
They're free to hide under the bed for the rest of their existence, COVID is going nowhere. Omicron has proved that much, at least.
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
But that's exit to endemicity. Exactly what we need to do with COVID. It's what Chris Whitty outlined in the summer. The alternative is actually scary, we kept restrictions, kept cases down to under 5k, only 1-2m get it over the summer and autumn and bang, Omicron arrives with 8-10m people having no vaccine or natural immunity. Even if it hospitalised at a third of the rate of Delta, that's still means 400k-500k unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment in a very short space of time. Natural immunity in that cohort will cut that by 80%. Some European countries who dodged their exit waves are in for a really tough winter, they have got millions and millions of people with zero immunity.
Erm, the data on Omicron and the pants being shat demonstrates that we have the same lack of immunity to Omicron - hence the desperate push to do boosters this month.
Omicron has some immunity escape, its not 100% immunity escape. Jesus Christ. 🤦♂️
Some immunity escape means we are no longer sat on 40-50,000 cases a day but a higher number that many people seem to expect to get way higher over the next 2 weeks.
When you point out these basic facts it shows his gif was correct, but aimed at him which isn't what was intended...
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
Pre-Omicron we had hit herd immunity which is why exponential growth wasn't occurring, without any restrictions and with a worsening environment (schools reopening, summer ending, winter starting etc)
R0 of 1 or below is herd immunity.
300,000 cases a week doesn't sound to me anything like herd immunity.
Why not?
This was an exponential disease, now it isn't, that is herd immunity achieved.
If herd immunity wasn't achieved then 300k one week would have been 600k the next. 300k one week, then 300k the next is herd immunity stable state as opposed to exponential growth.
It's a little bit more complicated than that, surely?
Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.
Why?
Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
For those getting stressed, here is a nice soothing piece form the AI Art project I invested in...I imagine this is the world Leon has been living in all weekend.
It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?
This is nonsense. Very few people in the UK have no immunity. Most of the old have been boosted, so will have a pretty strong immune response.
I'd be surprised if the hospitalization rate was above 1%. My crude estimate of the hospitalization rate is that it was about 0.9% for Delta towards the end of November. (This compares to about 3.5% for Alpha at the peak last winter)
This could still be a problem if Omicron is as severe and spreads quickly enough. We'd need about 450,000 daily infections to hit last winter's peak admissions rate.
If Omicron is half as severe, though, then you'd need twice as many infections. The virus won't be able to sustain 900,000 daily infections for long, though, nor infect many more than that each day.
I think there's a good chance we can let this wash through the population, as per the original pandemic strategy. I'd expect supermarkets would need to concentrate on distribution of core goods only for a while, as widespread sickness absence would reduce transport capacity, but this is the scenario the pandemic plan prepared us for.
we're also starting from a lower base here, would be surprised if this year's hospital number gets near last year on a same day comparison.
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
Pre-Omicron we had hit herd immunity which is why exponential growth wasn't occurring, without any restrictions and with a worsening environment (schools reopening, summer ending, winter starting etc)
R0 of 1 or below is herd immunity.
300,000 cases a week doesn't sound to me anything like herd immunity.
Why not?
This was an exponential disease, now it isn't, that is herd immunity achieved.
If herd immunity wasn't achieved then 300k one week would have been 600k the next. 300k one week, then 300k the next is herd immunity stable state as opposed to exponential growth.
It's a little bit more complicated than that, surely?
Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.
Why?
Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
Bingo. There are many, so many, independent variables driving the dependent variable. Too many people pretending the complex is simple on here.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Did you shop anyone who tried to walk out at 14mins 45secs?
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
Quit whining.
What gets me PT is the reaction to finger someone for passing on a virus that they never knew they had and then blame them. (Which is ridiculous in itself because no-one can know where they got Covid from.) We've got to stop blaming people - which has been a dispiriting feature of the pandemic from the off - and take responsibility for ourselves rather than expecting - no demanding - that others do instead. And they have the brass-neck to throw selfish allegations when they should look closer to home.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Nah. I just walked out; I had the dog in the car and I am sure he would have gone and summoned help Lassie-style in the almost infintessimal chance that it might have been necessary.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Sounds a tad OTT...
Equally its could just be staff members avoiding boredom by talking to people.
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
"We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"
You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.
In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.
So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".
"Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.
And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
Pre-Omicron we had hit herd immunity which is why exponential growth wasn't occurring, without any restrictions and with a worsening environment (schools reopening, summer ending, winter starting etc)
R0 of 1 or below is herd immunity.
300,000 cases a week doesn't sound to me anything like herd immunity.
Why not?
This was an exponential disease, now it isn't, that is herd immunity achieved.
If herd immunity wasn't achieved then 300k one week would have been 600k the next. 300k one week, then 300k the next is herd immunity stable state as opposed to exponential growth.
It's a little bit more complicated than that, surely?
Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.
Why?
Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
Ultimately the R may or may not be the issue, it's disease severity. If Omicron hospitalises at a rate of 100 out of 1000 vaccinated or naturally immune people we're fucked, if it does 1 in 10000 vaccinated or naturally immune people then it's not an earth shattering figure. Those are the two extremes of course and it will be somewhere in the middle. So far the evidence from SA is that it infects at a very high rate but hospitalises at a significantly lower rate in a largely immune population. If 0.5m people get Omicron but it results in just 1k hospitalisations are we worried? What Omicron seems to do well is evade antibodies which will mean lots of infections, it doesn't evade t-cells or b-cells at all so the body is able to recognise and eradicate infected cells before the onset of severe symptoms that might require hospitalisation. That plus booster jabs could mean lots of people entering the infection funnel but not many ending up hospitalised.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Sounds a tad OTT...
Equally its could just be staff members avoiding boredom by talking to people.
I had one of those when I got my first jab, this volunteer older lady wanted to have a massive chat with me.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Nah. I just walked out; I had the dog in the car and I am sure he would have gone and summoned help Lassie-style in the almost infintessimal chance that it might have been necessary.
You mean a member of staff didn't accompany you home and on the dog walk in case you turned your ankle over in the mud? Scandalous.
Well our return to the office which was scheduled for Monday the 7th of February, has once more been postponed.
Not until after Easter is the latest marker.
Am I ever going to be in the same office as my staff again?
Why are they so prescriptive? Sensible approach is to leave it up to the staff whether they go in or not until things are clearer. Sometimes it’s helpful to be in the office - indeed I’m heading into mine right now.
H&S - as my wife's company states - only people who need to be in the office for work or mental health reasons can currently work from the office.
Why would anyone go into the office if not for work? I’m prepared to believe that some might make a special trip purely to shag the caretaker, but am willing to wager that they are a niche group at best.
It's the nature / requirements of their jobs rather than anything else.
A chap in my team is coming to the office to study - he is a recent grad, doing multiple career related courses, and has zero quiet space in his flat share. The office is mostly empty, silent, spacious, he has a desk, computer and chair, printer and he gets free high quality coffee from the coffee machine.
Can fully understand that - I dislike the fact my office is on my wife's way to the kitchen so she wonders in when I'm trying to concentrate or asks who were you on the phone to.
I have a decent sized desk at home, a high end Mac, a mouse that doesn't give me RSI, a custom keyboard and a 34" monitor on an arm*.
It is quite surprising how many people think that everyone has that.
*If anyone is working from homeland think about their setup - big monitors are dropping in price massively. The arm to carry my one was about £70. Aside from being better than 2 x 17" monitors, the whole setup was cheaper - arms for multiple monitors are very expensive. And an arm is vital for getting proper adjust meant height.
I'm already pissed off about the way my work set-up dominates my living room (wife has the spare bedroom - we're lucky to have a spare bedroom at all). Getting more equipment to make it more comfortable would just make the intrusion of work into my rather limited home space all the worse.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
I was at a pharmacy with a single jabber - zero mention of 15 minute wait and every person got right up and walked out instantly to allow the next person in.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
It seems that most people recognise there are costs as well as benefits associated with measures to suppress the spread of Covid. Now, all of us draw the line in a different place (I am slightly more cautious than @Philip_Thompson, for example), but everyone recognises that (for example) stopping children from going to school is not without problems.
In every society there is a constant tension between attempting to minimise deaths, and allowing people to live as freely as possible. It's why we have rules regarding the sale of alcohol and drugs. It's why we have speed limits.
Covid is no different. There will be deaths, preventable deaths, that happen. And - short of welding people in their homes - that is inevitable. The question is where you put yourself on the spectrum.
And when you tie a "meeting partners" with "anti-vaccine fantasises" as if the two were somehow related, you make a mockery of peoples' struggles through the pandemic, and expose yourself as someone completely divorced from reality.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Did you shop anyone who tried to walk out at 14mins 45secs?
Why would I? I'm just saying what happened, not what I think should happen.
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was booked in for a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
Well our return to the office which was scheduled for Monday the 7th of February, has once more been postponed.
Not until after Easter is the latest marker.
Am I ever going to be in the same office as my staff again?
Why are they so prescriptive? Sensible approach is to leave it up to the staff whether they go in or not until things are clearer. Sometimes it’s helpful to be in the office - indeed I’m heading into mine right now.
H&S - as my wife's company states - only people who need to be in the office for work or mental health reasons can currently work from the office.
Why would anyone go into the office if not for work? I’m prepared to believe that some might make a special trip purely to shag the caretaker, but am willing to wager that they are a niche group at best.
It's the nature / requirements of their jobs rather than anything else.
A chap in my team is coming to the office to study - he is a recent grad, doing multiple career related courses, and has zero quiet space in his flat share. The office is mostly empty, silent, spacious, he has a desk, computer and chair, printer and he gets free high quality coffee from the coffee machine.
Can fully understand that - I dislike the fact my office is on my wife's way to the kitchen so she wonders in when I'm trying to concentrate or asks who were you on the phone to.
I have a decent sized desk at home, a high end Mac, a mouse that doesn't give me RSI, a custom keyboard and a 34" monitor on an arm*.
It is quite surprising how many people think that everyone has that.
*If anyone is working from homeland think about their setup - big monitors are dropping in price massively. The arm to carry my one was about £70. Aside from being better than 2 x 17" monitors, the whole setup was cheaper - arms for multiple monitors are very expensive. And an arm is vital for getting proper adjust meant height.
I'm already pissed off about the way my work set-up dominates my living room (wife has the spare bedroom - we're lucky to have a spare bedroom at all). Getting more equipment to make it more comfortable would just make the intrusion of work into my rather limited home space all the worse.
One friend did this (for his wife's work space). In their kitchen, he replaced the TV mount on the wall, with a folding monitor arm. When stowed, it looks as if it is just a TV on the wall. When it pulls out, it swings out far enough to be a monitor over the end of the dining table. So she sits down, connects the laptop to the monitor. Keyboard and mouse on wireless....
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
I've had a bit of minor good news. Some may remember that I said I kept getting letters from NHS saying I need to get a booster as their records show I had not had one, even though I had one six weeks ago. I was worried that some how the boost had not been logged.
Anyway, downloaded the NHS App today and it is there and fully recorded.
So those of you who posted to say they just send the letters out anyway regardless seem to be correct.
Phew. I will be able to go to the pub in January now.
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
Maybe but it's still worth getting.
Yes, although not for a number of weeks post positive test. (3? 4?)
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
Yep, in fact it looks like about 3 million over 50 (as at yesterday). That's still a large number of potentially vulnerable people, and the 40-49 groups are another 3.9m. Looks a hell of a challenge to me; we may get rapid take up amongst switched on younger urban groups, but not enough amongst the over 40s and over 50s.
Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.
I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.
I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.
I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.
I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
I had no great wish to host six households at once I assure you. It was responsibility conferred on me by my mother. Still glad to see your kind words of cheer about the coming family times.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
In other news (and apologies in advance if this has already been discussed - I've been away,) another of the unions representing healthcare workers, Unite, has come out in opposition to mandatory Covid vaccination.
That's another body alongside the BMA that, when it starts sobbing about how awful Covid has been for its members, and how we all need to put up with more rules and regulations to protect the NHS from the virus to make their lives less difficult, can be told to shut up.
My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Anybody got any good suggestions for a standing desk?
I made my own.
The original 'desk' is a fire door on 3x1 legs, and I made a plywood 'flying bridge' on top for the monitors and keyboard to lift them to the correct height.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Isn't that to change today to take a test?
Ah not sure. Could be. Still not sure what the red list abandonment means in terms of testing.
For those getting stressed, here is a nice soothing piece form the AI Art project I invested in...I imagine this is the world Leon has been living in all weekend.
That's good, but IMO it looks rather fractal: as if someone had tried to paint something generated by a computer.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
And I won't be pinged because I don't use the app. Hopefully my mates won't shop me to T&T. I'm any case, I don't think you have to give contacts who may have been in the same pub as you.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
Hoping that your employer would roll over enough days to 2022.
I take it @Chris won't be coming to the PB meet up in February. Or perhaps he will come in a hazmat suit.
If he was planning on coming in the first place then almost certainly not. Or, indeed, to any such similar gathering for many, many years.
Omicron won't be the last variant to cause a massive panic and have the ultra-cautious screaming at everyone to go home and stay there for another six months. Not by a long chalk.
That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
Maybe but it's still worth getting.
Yes, although not for a number of weeks post positive test. (3? 4?)
That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
But then it should make them stop and think about the whole thing. What if an anti-vaxxer MP spreads COVID to my MP and kills them? How is that good for democracy?
Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.
I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.
I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.
I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.
I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
I had no great wish to host six households at once I assure you. It was responsibility conferred on me by my mother. Still glad to see your kind words of cheer about the coming family times.
I hate it as much as you do. I keep saying how much I hate lockdowns (and I am locked down now with Covid in my house) yet you keep saying I want them.
We have a different view of how Covid will go - you more optimistic, me more pessimistic. But we both want it gone, done, finished, over. That it isn't is not evidence that I want it to stay. Nor are my and other's observations of Covid increasingly picking people off evidence that I want it thus - I don't. But it is what it is, and saying "I don't want it" doesn't make that happen.
That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
It is a workplace so I do not see how it is relevant
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
My score was 2 achieved, 2 cancelled due to direct exposure to Covid. I wish you more luck than I had.
My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.
"Minions" - not exactly top 100 words and phrases, is it?
I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
Is that how footballers will be exempted from vaccine passports? It's their workplace?
I'd have thought so. Does the Prem have any rules on vaccination, the NFL has a whole host of awkward stuff for unvaxxed players.
Nah, they just hope the problem goes away. Although, apparently Arsenal had a lot of unvaccinated footballers at the start of the season, which is why their match at Brentford went ahead.
It is somewhat concerning that the y*** and mancs are having their games called off due to COVID when, apparently, their lot are vaccinated.
About bloody time. My wife is a member of a FB group for people who were shielding. Several of them picked up COVID at their first vaccine appointment because they were forced to wait in a small room for 15 minutes post-vaccine with multiple other people. (Was during the lockdown and the only time they ventured out)
My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.
Perhaps not... But the original sentence is at least memorable - then you have the structure right and just need to adapt it a bit.
For example, you can make some substitutions. If you say "the evil Conservatives" instead of "minions" and "everybody" instead of "Corbyn" then it makes perfect sense.
But I suppose this is the fruit of the amazing Gove reforms to education.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
Yep, in fact it looks like about 3 million over 50 (as at yesterday). That's still a large number of potentially vulnerable people, and the 40-49 groups are another 3.9m. Looks a hell of a challenge to me; we may get rapid take up amongst switched on younger urban groups, but not enough amongst the over 40s and over 50s.
Numbers as of the 12th..... (England and Scotland)
Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.
That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
It is a workplace so I do not see how it is relevant
It is a special case. MPs legislating to effectively bar other MPs from sitting is not hygienic from a protecting democracy standpoint. It's bad from a public perception point of view, but there's a wider principle that is worth defending.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
No longer applies- daily tests now. Not that anyone seems to know this, so shite has the government been at making it clear.
Comments
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Glorious catch 22 position. Surely at some point the severity is low enough that they can end the pinging isolation.
We had our exit wave from restrictions in the summer. Then a follow on wave when schools reopened. Then an autumn wave, finally a winter wave. There was always likely to be a winter wave, even without Omicron.
Given the way Omicron is spreading so fast, we'll likely have a high Omicron winter wave, then things will start to turn around. We'll have had that, then we'll be moving on to the spring and summer next year.
The sooner we get through this Omicron wave the better in my opinion. No point dragging it out, but yes I expect it'll be higher than 40k. C'est la vie.
This will allow 500,000 more boosters
So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal
Pretty understandable trade-off
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion
Thank you to everyone coming forward to #GetBoostedNow
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1470770357984505857?s=20
Good idea.
I know I was asked when I got my shots had I ever had reactions to things like bee stings. And if you answered yes (bloke in front of me), out came a load more questions / forms.
If you're eligible, you can #GetBoosted now. From tomorrow, people aged 18 and over will be able to book online. http://nhs.uk/covid-booster
https://twitter.com/NHSEngland/status/1470772273397260299?s=20
I'd be surprised if the hospitalization rate was above 1%. My crude estimate of the hospitalization rate is that it was about 0.9% for Delta towards the end of November. (This compares to about 3.5% for Alpha at the peak last winter)
This could still be a problem if Omicron is as severe and spreads quickly enough. We'd need about 450,000 daily infections to hit last winter's peak admissions rate.
If Omicron is half as severe, though, then you'd need twice as many infections. The virus won't be able to sustain 900,000 daily infections for long, though, nor infect many more than that each day.
I think there's a good chance we can let this wash through the population, as per the original pandemic strategy. I'd expect supermarkets would need to concentrate on distribution of core goods only for a while, as widespread sickness absence would reduce transport capacity, but this is the scenario the pandemic plan prepared us for.
Nice one. You had me. It was the "Meeting Partners" in quotes that was the clumsy bit otherwise people would have thought you were serious and had some pretty serious issues about your own life. But excellent effort nevertheless
You are trolling and d'uh for me I fell for it. Kudos.
Your posts will now bring a deserved smile to my face.
If people have travelled by car then they could be asked to sit for 15 minutes and sound the horn for assistance, but I suppose that would be difficult at urban centres with limited parking.
Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.
Why?
Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
Too many people pretending the complex is simple on here.
https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315
It seems that most people recognise there are costs as well as benefits associated with measures to suppress the spread of Covid. Now, all of us draw the line in a different place (I am slightly more cautious than @Philip_Thompson, for example), but everyone recognises that (for example) stopping children from going to school is not without problems.
In every society there is a constant tension between attempting to minimise deaths, and allowing people to live as freely as possible. It's why we have rules regarding the sale of alcohol and drugs. It's why we have speed limits.
Covid is no different. There will be deaths, preventable deaths, that happen. And - short of welding people in their homes - that is inevitable. The question is where you put yourself on the spectrum.
And when you tie a "meeting partners" with "anti-vaccine fantasises" as if the two were somehow related, you make a mockery of peoples' struggles through the pandemic, and expose yourself as someone completely divorced from reality.
My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was booked in for a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
Had no idea it was contagious. Like yawning?
As usual.
Anyway, downloaded the NHS App today and it is there and fully recorded.
So those of you who posted to say they just send the letters out anyway regardless seem to be correct.
Phew. I will be able to go to the pub in January now.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470781746300035091
That's another body alongside the BMA that, when it starts sobbing about how awful Covid has been for its members, and how we all need to put up with more rules and regulations to protect the NHS from the virus to make their lives less difficult, can be told to shut up.
And bravo to Labour for ignoring them, BTW.
I also noted that both he and Streeting confirmed that they would not support mandatory vaccination.
Paula Surridge @p_surridge
My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
The original 'desk' is a fire door on 3x1 legs, and I made a plywood 'flying bridge' on top for the monitors and keyboard to lift them to the correct height.
Get yourself an anti-fatigue mat to go with it.
It's a workplace.
I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/14/boris-johnson-news-covid-vaccine-passport-vote-tory-rebellion/
Omicron won't be the last variant to cause a massive panic and have the ultra-cautious screaming at everyone to go home and stay there for another six months. Not by a long chalk.
We have a different view of how Covid will go - you more optimistic, me more pessimistic. But we both want it gone, done, finished, over. That it isn't is not evidence that I want it to stay. Nor are my and other's observations of Covid increasingly picking people off evidence that I want it thus - I don't. But it is what it is, and saying "I don't want it" doesn't make that happen.
It is somewhat concerning that the y*** and mancs are having their games called off due to COVID when, apparently, their lot are vaccinated.
For example, you can make some substitutions. If you say "the evil Conservatives" instead of "minions" and "everybody" instead of "Corbyn" then it makes perfect sense.
But I suppose this is the fruit of the amazing Gove reforms to education.
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
59,610 infections 150 deaths 793 admissions
Current Leader: @Endillion
All entries still in the competition (i.e. could still win)
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?