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YouGov polls: From Hartlepool to North Shropshire – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    17 in total ....15 min wait time should have gone months and months ago. I believe also at least the initial 2-3, the people were already known to be susceptible to such issues.

    I know I was asked when I got my shots had I ever had reactions to things like bee stings. And if you answered yes (bloke in front of me), out came a load more questions / forms.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    That's target met IMO. We should easily be able to average over 1m per day now.
  • Over one million COVID-19 booster appointments have now been booked in just over 24 hours since people aged 30 and over were offered it.

    If you're eligible, you can #GetBoosted now. From tomorrow, people aged 18 and over will be able to book online. http://nhs.uk/covid-booster


    https://twitter.com/NHSEngland/status/1470772273397260299?s=20
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
  • Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    Quit whining.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Leon said:

    It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?

    This is nonsense. Very few people in the UK have no immunity. Most of the old have been boosted, so will have a pretty strong immune response.

    I'd be surprised if the hospitalization rate was above 1%. My crude estimate of the hospitalization rate is that it was about 0.9% for Delta towards the end of November. (This compares to about 3.5% for Alpha at the peak last winter)

    This could still be a problem if Omicron is as severe and spreads quickly enough. We'd need about 450,000 daily infections to hit last winter's peak admissions rate.

    If Omicron is half as severe, though, then you'd need twice as many infections. The virus won't be able to sustain 900,000 daily infections for long, though, nor infect many more than that each day.

    I think there's a good chance we can let this wash through the population, as per the original pandemic strategy. I'd expect supermarkets would need to concentrate on distribution of core goods only for a while, as widespread sickness absence would reduce transport capacity, but this is the scenario the pandemic plan prepared us for.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited December 2021
    Chris said:

    Eabhal said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    @Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.

    The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.

    Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.

    Do you give a damn about anyone else?
    Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.

    It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
    AHHHHHHHHHH.

    Nice one. You had me. It was the "Meeting Partners" in quotes that was the clumsy bit otherwise people would have thought you were serious and had some pretty serious issues about your own life. But excellent effort nevertheless

    You are trolling and d'uh for me I fell for it. Kudos.

    Your posts will now bring a deserved smile to my face.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited December 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    @MaxPB said it first. 👍

    Good idea.
    Yes, each 15 minute wait was a super-spreading event waiting to happen.

    If people have travelled by car then they could be asked to sit for 15 minutes and sound the horn for assistance, but I suppose that would be difficult at urban centres with limited parking.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    They're free to hide under the bed for the rest of their existence, COVID is going nowhere. Omicron has proved that much, at least.
  • eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    "The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."

    DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE

    If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
    We did see them fall.

    Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.

    Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
    Lol

    Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.

    Peak 47,114 (21/07), trough 25,722 (02/08), peak 38,459 (09/09), trough 28.928 (17/09), peak 47,209 (23/10), trough 33,477 (10/11), peak 51,176 (13/12).

    When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
    You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)

    Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?

    16 July 47,970.4
    13 September 28,540.4

    So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.

    You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?

    You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
    More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.

    You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.

    We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.

    Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
    "We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"

    You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.

    In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.

    So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".

    "Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
    He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
    Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.

    And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
    But that's exit to endemicity. Exactly what we need to do with COVID. It's what Chris Whitty outlined in the summer. The alternative is actually scary, we kept restrictions, kept cases down to under 5k, only 1-2m get it over the summer and autumn and bang, Omicron arrives with 8-10m people having no vaccine or natural immunity. Even if it hospitalised at a third of the rate of Delta, that's still means 400k-500k unvaccinated people needing hospital treatment in a very short space of time. Natural immunity in that cohort will cut that by 80%. Some European countries who dodged their exit waves are in for a really tough winter, they have got millions and millions of people with zero immunity.
    Erm, the data on Omicron and the pants being shat demonstrates that we have the same lack of immunity to Omicron - hence the desperate push to do boosters this month.
    image

    Omicron has some immunity escape, its not 100% immunity escape. Jesus Christ. 🤦‍♂️
    Some immunity escape means we are no longer sat on 40-50,000 cases a day but a higher number that many people seem to expect to get way higher over the next 2 weeks.
    When you point out these basic facts it shows his gif was correct, but aimed at him which isn't what was intended...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    "The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."

    DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE

    If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
    We did see them fall.

    Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.

    Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
    Lol

    Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.

    Peak 47,114 (21/07), trough 25,722 (02/08), peak 38,459 (09/09), trough 28.928 (17/09), peak 47,209 (23/10), trough 33,477 (10/11), peak 51,176 (13/12).

    When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
    You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)

    Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?

    16 July 47,970.4
    13 September 28,540.4

    So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.

    You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?

    You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
    More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.

    You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.

    We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.

    Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
    "We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"

    You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.

    In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.

    So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".

    "Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
    He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
    Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.

    And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
    Pre-Omicron we had hit herd immunity which is why exponential growth wasn't occurring, without any restrictions and with a worsening environment (schools reopening, summer ending, winter starting etc)

    R0 of 1 or below is herd immunity.
    300,000 cases a week doesn't sound to me anything like herd immunity.
    Why not?

    This was an exponential disease, now it isn't, that is herd immunity achieved.

    If herd immunity wasn't achieved then 300k one week would have been 600k the next. 300k one week, then 300k the next is herd immunity stable state as opposed to exponential growth.
    It's a little bit more complicated than that, surely?

    Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.

    Why?

    Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited December 2021
    For those getting stressed, here is a nice soothing piece form the AI Art project I invested in...I imagine this is the world Leon has been living in all weekend.


  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    Leon said:

    It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?

    This is nonsense. Very few people in the UK have no immunity. Most of the old have been boosted, so will have a pretty strong immune response.

    I'd be surprised if the hospitalization rate was above 1%. My crude estimate of the hospitalization rate is that it was about 0.9% for Delta towards the end of November. (This compares to about 3.5% for Alpha at the peak last winter)

    This could still be a problem if Omicron is as severe and spreads quickly enough. We'd need about 450,000 daily infections to hit last winter's peak admissions rate.

    If Omicron is half as severe, though, then you'd need twice as many infections. The virus won't be able to sustain 900,000 daily infections for long, though, nor infect many more than that each day.

    I think there's a good chance we can let this wash through the population, as per the original pandemic strategy. I'd expect supermarkets would need to concentrate on distribution of core goods only for a while, as widespread sickness absence would reduce transport capacity, but this is the scenario the pandemic plan prepared us for.
    we're also starting from a lower base here, would be surprised if this year's hospital number gets near last year on a same day comparison.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    More than 650,000 boosters were booked in England yesterday.

    Thank you to everyone coming forward to #GetBoostedNow


    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1470770357984505857?s=20

    Hopefully, with walk ins starting, that is an undercount of the potential.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Did you shop anyone who tried to walk out at 14mins 45secs?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    edited December 2021

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    Quit whining.
    What gets me PT is the reaction to finger someone for passing on a virus that they never knew they had and then blame them. (Which is ridiculous in itself because no-one can know where they got Covid from.) We've got to stop blaming people - which has been a dispiriting feature of the pandemic from the off - and take responsibility for ourselves rather than expecting - no demanding - that others do instead. And they have the brass-neck to throw selfish allegations when they should look closer to home.
  • Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Sounds a tad OTT...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Nah. I just walked out; I had the dog in the car and I am sure he would have gone and summoned help Lassie-style in the almost infintessimal chance that it might have been necessary.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Sounds a tad OTT...
    Equally its could just be staff members avoiding boredom by talking to people.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    "The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."

    DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE

    If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
    We did see them fall.

    Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.

    Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
    Lol

    Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.

    Peak 47,114 (21/07), trough 25,722 (02/08), peak 38,459 (09/09), trough 28.928 (17/09), peak 47,209 (23/10), trough 33,477 (10/11), peak 51,176 (13/12).

    When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
    You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)

    Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?

    16 July 47,970.4
    13 September 28,540.4

    So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.

    You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?

    You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
    More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.

    You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.

    We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.

    Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
    "We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions"

    You dishonest twerp. You took the data from when we were in Step 2 of lockdown.

    In case you've forgotten by now, Step 2 was when it was illegal for restaurants to be open indoors. Childrens play areas, hotels, sport for fans etc were all closed. It was illegal to be within 2 metres of other people. It was illegal to go into other people's houses.

    So yes if you want to have zero integrity, take lockdown Step 2 as your baseline and as "mask restrictions".

    "Exiting Covid" and considering legal lockdown as your baseline for "mask restrictions" alone . . . you need to take a time out. You have thrown all your integrity away.
    He's a moron, he clearly thinks COVID can be defeated but doesn't want to out himself as a moron.
    Um, RP is actually using things you've said in the past against you because in theory the exit wave from July onwards should have resulted in us hitting herd immunity by now - at which point infection numbers should have dropped because there would be very few people left to be infected.

    And it's clear that that has happened although it's equally clear that until Omicron arrived R0 was at a steady level of about 1.
    Pre-Omicron we had hit herd immunity which is why exponential growth wasn't occurring, without any restrictions and with a worsening environment (schools reopening, summer ending, winter starting etc)

    R0 of 1 or below is herd immunity.
    300,000 cases a week doesn't sound to me anything like herd immunity.
    Why not?

    This was an exponential disease, now it isn't, that is herd immunity achieved.

    If herd immunity wasn't achieved then 300k one week would have been 600k the next. 300k one week, then 300k the next is herd immunity stable state as opposed to exponential growth.
    It's a little bit more complicated than that, surely?

    Let's forget Omicron for a second, and look at what's happened in many developed countries: you have waves of infection as Covid goes from minimal cases to quite a few, and then back down again.

    Why?

    Well, it's because R is a function, not just of the disease, but of peoples' behaviour and of the state of vaccine efficacy at a point in time. So, our booster shot campaign has lowered R in the UK (yay!), just as people are spending more time in doors (as it's getting colder) which acts the other way.
    Ultimately the R may or may not be the issue, it's disease severity. If Omicron hospitalises at a rate of 100 out of 1000 vaccinated or naturally immune people we're fucked, if it does 1 in 10000 vaccinated or naturally immune people then it's not an earth shattering figure. Those are the two extremes of course and it will be somewhere in the middle. So far the evidence from SA is that it infects at a very high rate but hospitalises at a significantly lower rate in a largely immune population. If 0.5m people get Omicron but it results in just 1k hospitalisations are we worried? What Omicron seems to do well is evade antibodies which will mean lots of infections, it doesn't evade t-cells or b-cells at all so the body is able to recognise and eradicate infected cells before the onset of severe symptoms that might require hospitalisation. That plus booster jabs could mean lots of people entering the infection funnel but not many ending up hospitalised.
  • eek said:

    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Sounds a tad OTT...
    Equally its could just be staff members avoiding boredom by talking to people.
    I had one of those when I got my first jab, this volunteer older lady wanted to have a massive chat with me.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited December 2021
    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited December 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    Nah. I just walked out; I had the dog in the car and I am sure he would have gone and summoned help Lassie-style in the almost infintessimal chance that it might have been necessary.
    You mean a member of staff didn't accompany you home and on the dog walk in case you turned your ankle over in the mud? Scandalous.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2021
    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Well our return to the office which was scheduled for Monday the 7th of February, has once more been postponed.

    Not until after Easter is the latest marker.

    Am I ever going to be in the same office as my staff again?

    Why are they so prescriptive? Sensible approach is to leave it up to the staff whether they go in or not until things are clearer. Sometimes it’s helpful to be in the office - indeed I’m heading into mine right now.
    H&S - as my wife's company states - only people who need to be in the office for work or mental health reasons can currently work from the office.
    Why would anyone go into the office if not for work? I’m prepared to believe that some might make a special trip purely to shag the caretaker, but am willing to wager that they are a niche group at best.
    It's the nature / requirements of their jobs rather than anything else.
    A chap in my team is coming to the office to study - he is a recent grad, doing multiple career related courses, and has zero quiet space in his flat share. The office is mostly empty, silent, spacious, he has a desk, computer and chair, printer and he gets free high quality coffee from the coffee machine.
    Can fully understand that - I dislike the fact my office is on my wife's way to the kitchen so she wonders in when I'm trying to concentrate or asks who were you on the phone to.
    I have a decent sized desk at home, a high end Mac, a mouse that doesn't give me RSI, a custom keyboard and a 34" monitor on an arm*.

    It is quite surprising how many people think that everyone has that.

    *If anyone is working from homeland think about their setup - big monitors are dropping in price massively. The arm to carry my one was about £70. Aside from being better than 2 x 17" monitors, the whole setup was cheaper - arms for multiple monitors are very expensive. And an arm is vital for getting proper adjust meant height.
    I'm already pissed off about the way my work set-up dominates my living room (wife has the spare bedroom - we're lucky to have a spare bedroom at all). Getting more equipment to make it more comfortable would just make the intrusion of work into my rather limited home space all the worse.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Farooq said:

    maaarsh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
    15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
    I was at a pharmacy with a single jabber - zero mention of 15 minute wait and every person got right up and walked out instantly to allow the next person in.
  • Anybody got any good suggestions for a standing desk?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?

    My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was booked in for a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    A downside to the 15 minute wait was the hilarious sequential fainting that happened when one poor guy had a wobble.

    Had no idea it was contagious. Like yawning?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?

    My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
    Maybe but it's still worth getting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Green Party MP making a speech. No content related to the environment.

    As usual.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Maffew said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Well our return to the office which was scheduled for Monday the 7th of February, has once more been postponed.

    Not until after Easter is the latest marker.

    Am I ever going to be in the same office as my staff again?

    Why are they so prescriptive? Sensible approach is to leave it up to the staff whether they go in or not until things are clearer. Sometimes it’s helpful to be in the office - indeed I’m heading into mine right now.
    H&S - as my wife's company states - only people who need to be in the office for work or mental health reasons can currently work from the office.
    Why would anyone go into the office if not for work? I’m prepared to believe that some might make a special trip purely to shag the caretaker, but am willing to wager that they are a niche group at best.
    It's the nature / requirements of their jobs rather than anything else.
    A chap in my team is coming to the office to study - he is a recent grad, doing multiple career related courses, and has zero quiet space in his flat share. The office is mostly empty, silent, spacious, he has a desk, computer and chair, printer and he gets free high quality coffee from the coffee machine.
    Can fully understand that - I dislike the fact my office is on my wife's way to the kitchen so she wonders in when I'm trying to concentrate or asks who were you on the phone to.
    I have a decent sized desk at home, a high end Mac, a mouse that doesn't give me RSI, a custom keyboard and a 34" monitor on an arm*.

    It is quite surprising how many people think that everyone has that.

    *If anyone is working from homeland think about their setup - big monitors are dropping in price massively. The arm to carry my one was about £70. Aside from being better than 2 x 17" monitors, the whole setup was cheaper - arms for multiple monitors are very expensive. And an arm is vital for getting proper adjust meant height.
    I'm already pissed off about the way my work set-up dominates my living room (wife has the spare bedroom - we're lucky to have a spare bedroom at all). Getting more equipment to make it more comfortable would just make the intrusion of work into my rather limited home space all the worse.
    One friend did this (for his wife's work space). In their kitchen, he replaced the TV mount on the wall, with a folding monitor arm. When stowed, it looks as if it is just a TV on the wall. When it pulls out, it swings out far enough to be a monitor over the end of the dining table. So she sits down, connects the laptop to the monitor. Keyboard and mouse on wireless....
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?

    My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
    Maybe but it's still worth getting.
    I got mine on Day 29 after infection
  • I've had a bit of minor good news. Some may remember that I said I kept getting letters from NHS saying I need to get a booster as their records show I had not had one, even though I had one six weeks ago. I was worried that some how the boost had not been logged.

    Anyway, downloaded the NHS App today and it is there and fully recorded.

    So those of you who posted to say they just send the letters out anyway regardless seem to be correct.

    Phew. I will be able to go to the pub in January now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?

    My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
    Maybe but it's still worth getting.
    Yes, although not for a number of weeks post positive test. (3? 4?)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Replying for Labour, @wesstreeting has (again) mounted a far more impassioned and articulate defence of the Govt’s plan for Covid passes than @sajidjavid himself. Difficult to see Govt winning over many rebels when they seem so embarrassed by their own policy.
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470781746300035091
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    Yep, in fact it looks like about 3 million over 50 (as at yesterday). That's still a large number of potentially vulnerable people, and the 40-49 groups are another 3.9m. Looks a hell of a challenge to me; we may get rapid take up amongst switched on younger urban groups, but not enough amongst the over 40s and over 50s.
  • Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Conspiracy or cock-up?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Pulpstar said:

    Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.

    I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.

    I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
    I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
    At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.

    Pulpstar said:

    Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.

    I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.

    I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
    I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
    At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
    I had no great wish to host six households at once I assure you. It was responsibility conferred on me by my mother. Still glad to see your kind words of cheer about the coming family times.
  • Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Incredible. They just don't care.
  • Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    As a matter of interest when has the law changed to require a vaccine passport to attend your workplace
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813
    edited December 2021
    In other news (and apologies in advance if this has already been discussed - I've been away,) another of the unions representing healthcare workers, Unite, has come out in opposition to mandatory Covid vaccination.

    That's another body alongside the BMA that, when it starts sobbing about how awful Covid has been for its members, and how we all need to put up with more rules and regulations to protect the NHS from the virus to make their lives less difficult, can be told to shut up.

    And bravo to Labour for ignoring them, BTW.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    I notice that Javid was at pains to repeatedly say that vaccine passports are not what is being proposed.

    I also noted that both he and Streeting confirmed that they would not support mandatory vaccination.
  • On a lighter note:

    Paula Surridge @p_surridge

    My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
  • tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Apparently it is a ruling by the Speaker
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Anybody got any good suggestions for a standing desk?

    I made my own.

    The original 'desk' is a fire door on 3x1 legs, and I made a plywood 'flying bridge' on top for the monitors and keyboard to lift them to the correct height.

    Get yourself an anti-fatigue mat to go with it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    I take it @Chris won't be coming to the PB meet up in February. Or perhaps he will come in a hazmat suit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,897
    edited December 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Why would they ?

    It's a workplace.

    I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
  • TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Isn't that to change today to take a test?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Isn't that to change today to take a test?
    Ah not sure. Could be. Still not sure what the red list abandonment means in terms of testing.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Why would they ?

    It's a workplace.

    I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
    Is that how footballers will be exempted from vaccine passports? It's their workplace?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Covid passport rebels now admitting to @Telegraph that tonight we could see 1) Zero PPS resignations 2) Fewer than 80 Tory MPs voting against. Who knows, not long to find out. More on our live blog shortly:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/12/14/boris-johnson-news-covid-vaccine-passport-vote-tory-rebellion/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    For those getting stressed, here is a nice soothing piece form the AI Art project I invested in...I imagine this is the world Leon has been living in all weekend.


    That's good, but IMO it looks rather fractal: as if someone had tried to paint something generated by a computer.
  • TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
    And I won't be pinged because I don't use the app. Hopefully my mates won't shop me to T&T. I'm any case, I don't think you have to give contacts who may have been in the same pub as you.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
    Hoping that your employer would roll over enough days to 2022.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813
    TOPPING said:

    I take it @Chris won't be coming to the PB meet up in February. Or perhaps he will come in a hazmat suit.

    If he was planning on coming in the first place then almost certainly not. Or, indeed, to any such similar gathering for many, many years.

    Omicron won't be the last variant to cause a massive panic and have the ultra-cautious screaming at everyone to go home and stay there for another six months. Not by a long chalk.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Streeting good today in Commons.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    I wonder if most of those not bothering so far are post infection?

    My sister-in-law got (presumably Delta) the day before she was due a booster, so she hasn't had one yet. How many of the over 50s have been infected since their last jab?
    Maybe but it's still worth getting.
    Yes, although not for a number of weeks post positive test. (3? 4?)
    28 days
  • Stocky said:

    Streeting good today in Commons.

    He has the voice to rise above the din which always helps.
  • Stocky said:

    Streeting good today in Commons.

    Yes he was
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,897
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Why would they ?

    It's a workplace.

    I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
    Is that how footballers will be exempted from vaccine passports? It's their workplace?
    I'd have thought so. Does the Prem have any rules on vaccination, the NFL has a whole host of awkward stuff for unvaxxed players.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Endillion said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
    But then it should make them stop and think about the whole thing. What if an anti-vaxxer MP spreads COVID to my MP and kills them? How is that good for democracy?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.

    I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.

    I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
    I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
    At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.

    Pulpstar said:

    Nicola Sturgeon says: "If you do plan on socialising - either at home or in indoor public places - we are asking that you limit the number of households represented in your group to a maximum of three. She says this limit does not apply to people's main Christmas celebration.

    I can't see how this makes any difference versus super infectious Omicron. Three households together is a lot of people, and Christmas is a free for all.

    I'd have thought 3 households would be a broadly normal number for most families over christmas ?
    I’m hosting six at the peak, albeit just for one day.
    At least you hope you are. Unless half of them have come down with Omicron before then. Which is the risk out there - infections running rampant forcing people out of circulation as opposed to threats of lockdowns later.
    I had no great wish to host six households at once I assure you. It was responsibility conferred on me by my mother. Still glad to see your kind words of cheer about the coming family times.
    I hate it as much as you do. I keep saying how much I hate lockdowns (and I am locked down now with Covid in my house) yet you keep saying I want them.

    We have a different view of how Covid will go - you more optimistic, me more pessimistic. But we both want it gone, done, finished, over. That it isn't is not evidence that I want it to stay. Nor are my and other's observations of Covid increasingly picking people off evidence that I want it thus - I don't. But it is what it is, and saying "I don't want it" doesn't make that happen.
  • Endillion said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
    It is a workplace so I do not see how it is relevant
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    My score was 2 achieved, 2 cancelled due to direct exposure to Covid. I wish you more luck than I had.
  • On a lighter note:

    Paula Surridge @p_surridge

    My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.

    "Minions" - not exactly top 100 words and phrases, is it?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Why would they ?

    It's a workplace.

    I presume remote voting is back as WFthe Virgin IslandsH guidance is now live once more ?
    Is that how footballers will be exempted from vaccine passports? It's their workplace?
    I'd have thought so. Does the Prem have any rules on vaccination, the NFL has a whole host of awkward stuff for unvaxxed players.
    Nah, they just hope the problem goes away. Although, apparently Arsenal had a lot of unvaccinated footballers at the start of the season, which is why their match at Brentford went ahead.

    It is somewhat concerning that the y*** and mancs are having their games called off due to COVID when, apparently, their lot are vaccinated.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,412
    Scott_xP said:

    15-minute wait after Pfizer jab suspended by CMOs.

    This will allow 500,000 more boosters

    So far 17 people have had anaphylactic reactions during the observation period. None fatal

    Pretty understandable trade-off


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion/suspension-of-the-15-minute-wait-for-vaccination-with-mrna-vaccine-for-covid-19-uk-cmos-opinion

    About bloody time. My wife is a member of a FB group for people who were shielding. Several of them picked up COVID at their first vaccine appointment because they were forced to wait in a small room for 15 minutes post-vaccine with multiple other people. (Was during the lockdown and the only time they ventured out)
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889
    edited December 2021

    On a lighter note:

    Paula Surridge @p_surridge

    My son doing his Spanish homework was asked to translate 'The minions are going to rob Corbyn' which I am sure will be hugely useful should he ever be in Spain.

    Perhaps not... But the original sentence is at least memorable - then you have the structure right and just need to adapt it a bit.

    For example, you can make some substitutions. If you say "the evil Conservatives" instead of "minions" and "everybody" instead of "Corbyn" then it makes perfect sense.

    But I suppose this is the fruit of the amazing Gove reforms to education.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,412

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    Will/can Labour table an amendment to fix that?
    Apparently it is a ruling by the Speaker
    Are there any MPs who have publically declared they are not getting vaxxed?
  • TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    A very good thread summarising what needs to be done to meet the jabbing target and progress so far:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1470763520891490315

    What we need is people going out and proactively offering those 1m+ over 50s third doses. That's the biggest worry IMO.
    Yep, in fact it looks like about 3 million over 50 (as at yesterday). That's still a large number of potentially vulnerable people, and the 40-49 groups are another 3.9m. Looks a hell of a challenge to me; we may get rapid take up amongst switched on younger urban groups, but not enough amongst the over 40s and over 50s.
    Numbers as of the 12th..... (England and Scotland)

    image
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    edited December 2021
    Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited December 2021
    513,722 boosters yesteday, record in England

    59,610 infections 150 deaths 793 admissions
  • Daily Boosters: 513,722
    Current Leader: @Endillion
    All entries still in the competition (i.e. could still win)
  • TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

    If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    No longer applies- daily tests now. Not that anyone seems to know this, so shite has the government been at making it clear.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Hospital beds occupied up 39. Same day last year that figure was up 593.
  • Farooq said:

    Endillion said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is outrageous. Vaccine passports are not expected to apply to MPs in the House of Commons. Them & us personified. They are taking the piss out of us. Repeatedly. https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1470780968302788620/photo/1

    That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
    It is a workplace so I do not see how it is relevant
    It is a special case. MPs legislating to effectively bar other MPs from sitting is not hygienic from a protecting democracy standpoint. It's bad from a public perception point of view, but there's a wider principle that is worth defending.
    It was the Speaker who made the decision apparently
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

    If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
    That is exactly what I was getting at earlier with @FrancisUrquhart
  • Pro tip.

    On Christmas Eve I'm watching Love Actually then followed by Die Hard.

    Alan Rickman will be punished for what he did to Emma Thompson.

    #OnlyLegitimateReasonToWatchDieHardOnChristmasEve
  • 513,722 boosters yesteday, record in England

    59,610 infections 150 deaths 793 admissions

    Same day last week: 326,165 boosters

    57.5% Week on Week increase.

    Easily going to hit a million doses a day. Easily going to get everyone offered a vaccine by New Years Eve I suspect.

    Already 41.9% over over-12s are boosted.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

    If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
    Nasty case of paid leave.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Anybody got any good suggestions for a standing desk?

    Shorter legs? :D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?

    That’s enough to totally fuck the economy. To stop everything. All work. No?

    Unless you get wartime recruitment of the well-enough-old, young and recovered to staff shops and drive buses and the like, and what if they then get Delta to go down with it again? There are rumours you can get both.

    How does a society function with this level of illness?

    AND WHO WILL DIG THE PLAGUE PITS?

    I'm not going to get it. I can sense I'm not. Sense that very strongly. I'm not buying all this "everyone will get it at some point" talk. I plan to live out the rest of my days without catching any variety of Covid and I bet you I manage it. Off to make myself a banana shake now.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    513,722 boosters yesteday, record in England

    59,610 infections 150 deaths 793 admissions

    Highest ever number of (reported) daily tests too - 1,307,252. Cases are currently going up in line with increased testing.

    Deaths still seem to be flat at the least and possibly still declining. Admissions though is the worry, a couple of 900+ days in the last week.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    I have already had Covid and might well have had the other one but have no idea.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

    If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
    Only if you are not in the middle of a forest at night.
  • TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    No longer applies- daily tests now. Not that anyone seems to know this, so shite has the government been at making it clear.
    Daily tests only if you are doubled vaxxed.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.

    I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
    Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?

    Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.

    Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
    The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.

    It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.

    I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
    So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.

    We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.

    Unacceptable.
    Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.

    I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.

    Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
    Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
    And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
    But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
    I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
    The biggest risk is getting pinged.

    Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
    Does anyone still use track and trace?

    No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
    A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?

    If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
    We do a test if we're going anywhere serious: e.g. I took one last month before going to the dentists.

    Seems impolite not to.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    London hospital occupancy down today, although still up on the week.

    Overall, another day with no apocalypse.
This discussion has been closed.