That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
It is a workplace so I do not see how it is relevant
It is a special case. MPs legislating to effectively bar other MPs from sitting is not hygienic from a protecting democracy standpoint. It's bad from a public perception point of view, but there's a wider principle that is worth defending.
It was the Speaker who made the decision apparently
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
That is exactly what I was getting at earlier with @FrancisUrquhart
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
It occurs to me that NHS might collapse whatever we do. It doesn’t matter if everyone is entombed in personal tungsten cave-cubicles, we will still get it, 40% of us will get it bad enough to take a week off work maybe 5% will go to hospital and 1% die?
That’s enough to totally fuck the economy. To stop everything. All work. No?
Unless you get wartime recruitment of the well-enough-old, young and recovered to staff shops and drive buses and the like, and what if they then get Delta to go down with it again? There are rumours you can get both.
How does a society function with this level of illness?
AND WHO WILL DIG THE PLAGUE PITS?
I'm not going to get it. I can sense I'm not. Sense that very strongly. I'm not buying all this "everyone will get it at some point" talk. I plan to live out the rest of my days without catching any variety of Covid and I bet you I manage it. Off to make myself a banana shake now.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
I have already had Covid and might well have had the other one but have no idea.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
Only if you are not in the middle of a forest at night.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
No longer applies- daily tests now. Not that anyone seems to know this, so shite has the government been at making it clear.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
We do a test if we're going anywhere serious: e.g. I took one last month before going to the dentists.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Well, I just have been, it was tedious, but not the worst thing in the world. I would cancel my Christmas leave and work from home to give me something to do.
Hoping that your employer would roll over enough days to 2022.
Being a Civil Servant I'm allowed to carry over 10, and my leave year ends May anyway.
That's not "them and us", that's to avoid the possibility of the public electing someone to represent them in Parliament, whom Parliament then bans from showing up because of a personal choice. If anything, it's MPs accepting greater risk on themselves for the sake of democracy.
But then it should make them stop and think about the whole thing. What if an anti-vaxxer MP spreads COVID to my MP and kills them? How is that good for democracy?
It's rubbish for democracy, but the logical conclusion is to make vaccinations compulsory, not impose vaxports.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
Nasty case of paid leave.
That, and a lot of people just do regular LFTs out of habit for various reasons (e.g. that the Government has recommended it, that their employer likes them to, or that they have interactions with vulnerable people.)
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
We will take LFTs before we leave on Thursday to visit Bath. If we were asymptomatic, but infectious, then it's reasonable (if annoying) to stay home and avoid infecting others. This is a basic public health measure to slow down the spread and lessen the size of the peak.
It's a bit more of an intervention than simply asking people to stay home if symptomatic, but not an assault on liberty. I'd hope that LFTs for asymptomatic testing would be dropped after this winter.
"The country will face an “exit wave” of coronavirus infections whenever restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer has said."
DEMONSTRABLY AN ABUSE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
If we had seen cases rise and fall then fine. But we didn't. Cases rose. And with some variations at the top stayed largely the same. We didn't see the dropping away as we exit that wave. Its just stayed high permanently.
We did see them fall.
Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened.
Unless you have come to some perverted belief that schools don't affect transmission? Is that your claim now?
Lol
Covid cases 17th May 2,220 (7 day average). Then after we made changes a big spike and the pogoing highs and lows around the new baseline.
When you say "we did see them fall" it was to 25,722, a mere 11.5x higher than the start. And then up and up and up.
You are being so insane now, May was during restrictions, why the hell would it have to fall beneath the figure that is only achievable with restrictions? What an absurd suggestion (!)
Are you so naive and so unwilling to be realistic now that you can't tell the difference between transmission with schools closed and transmission with schools open now?
16 July 47,970.4 13 September 28,540.4
So the 7 day average halved until the schools went back, that's one wave.
You seem to be in utter denial. First you want us to exit the virus, then you want cases to fall below what they were when we were in lockdown. You just clearly haven't grasped the severity of reality have you?
You're getting irate at others because you're in complete denial.
More belly laughs at my end - this is great! Had it dropped to 28k and kept falling then that would have been great! Instead that was the new floor and then we saw an ever-increasing level of new floors. 28k. 33k, now 51k.
You said "We did see them fall. Because in the first phase schools were closed, in the second the schools were reopened." Yes. And then they went up again. And up some more. And some more.
We replaced the 2k cases a day with mask restrictions with a very best 28k a day and then up and up. If an ever-increasing number of cases is us exiting having cases then black truly is white.
Do keep it up, you're as funny as HYUFD foaming on about Toryism.
Why would it keep falling? Schools reopened! Then it became winter.
You are utterly delusional. Had we not had the exit wave we would have seen exponential growth with schools open, no restrictions and winter. To keep levels flat, while circumstances are getting worse, is proof that the wave has happened.
I'm not an expert on waves, but I don't think they're supposed to peak, and then just keep going at the level of the peak indefinitely.
One reason waves in the water form the pattern they do is the ground level is rising which causes the water to rise too.
In the UK since lifting lockdown the ground level for Covid's spread has been rising: Schools reopened, summer ended, winter began. And yet despite the ground level rising, the cases have been flat. Why?
The only reason the cases have been flat despite the higher ground level, is that the prior wave had just happened.
Imagine if it was the other way around, starting in winter with schools open, then going into spring, then summer, then the schools closed over summer holidays - if cases were flat over that, then you'd be confused why.
To have cases flat, while the ground level to boost Covid is getting higher, is proof that the wave had happened, not proof it didn't.
It's proof that the wave isn't over yet, which is proof that the (presumed) prior belief that it would crest and then break was wrong. In short, it is now conclusively proven to be Not a Wave.
Look at it another way: six months ago, was anyone predicting an "exit wave" that got stuck around 50k cases reported per day for months on end, if restrictions lifted?
Waves is funny things. One never knows, the dynamics muight have generatyed a soliton which moves forward as quickly as we do in time: see this ship in a canal 2:30 ON.
I think I understood this. Waves travel through time, meaning that a wave can happen before the event that caused it. I think I could squeeze a paper out of this and it'll make a big splash.
Every single person at the centre I was at this morning left within 15 seconds of jabbing, and that is not even an exaggeration.
15 minute wait was closely monitored and perfectly observed from my booster today, from what I had a chance to observe. Rows of seats corresponding to time of jab, a worker walking up and down checking everybody felt fine.
Nah. I just walked out; I had the dog in the car and I am sure he would have gone and summoned help Lassie-style in the almost infintessimal chance that it might have been necessary.
Didn't bother in my case when I got the booster - we were getting a taxi home and I had had enough of the crowded venue. (Or seemingly crowded: nothing to compare with the pics today, thouigh (at least here) it was very fully booked and people being processed without gaps, a month back).
18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.
Violent criminal who is "one of us." Not "one of them." Aside from the sentence. 3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon? If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.
A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"
I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"
Quite.
You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.
Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?
Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)
You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...
Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Good for them.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.
Positivity rate 4.6% - still within WHO guidelines, unlike some of our European peers (some of whom also appear to have significant data lags):
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Good for them.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
They aren't doing it because they've done a good job with vaccinating and the coronavirus in under control, they are doing it to oppose the Biden administration.
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).
Cases up quite a bit. Testing still rising faster. Number of people in English hospital beds up by just 39, so now a full 10k less than same day last year. Deaths down.
Positivity rate 4.6% - still within WHO guidelines, unlike some of our European peers (some of whom also appear to have significant data lags):
Nearly 30% in the Netherlands? 😖
This winter is going to be awful and entirely avoidably awful for many of our neighbouring nations because they were so badly mismanaged they failed to get a steady state of having an exit wave over the summer.
No immunity and now Omicron. It was entirely preventable the imbeciles just needed to lift restrictions and let it rip over the summer. Instead now it's going to rip over the winter for more atrocious consequences.
18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.
Violent criminal who is "one of us." Not "one of them." Aside from the sentence. 3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon? If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.
A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"
I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"
Quite.
You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.
Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?
Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)
You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...
Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!
Safer, generally.
A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.
Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.
The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.
Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
That's probably because both cases and deaths fell to a fraction of their level in early January within a few months of him leaving office. They have picked up and are currently running at about half that peak level. Once omicron takes hold I am guessing we will see new peaks, but those affected will mostly be freedom loving Trumpster anti vaxers so they won't be complaining and I'm guessing nobody else will either.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.
Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?
Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
We will take LFTs before we leave on Thursday to visit Bath. If we were asymptomatic, but infectious, then it's reasonable (if annoying) to stay home and avoid infecting others. This is a basic public health measure to slow down the spread and lessen the size of the peak.
It's a bit more of an intervention than simply asking people to stay home if symptomatic, but not an assault on liberty. I'd hope that LFTs for asymptomatic testing would be dropped after this winter.
That's exactly right. I did an LTR - my 1st and only - in prep for a big family get together 2 weeks ago. Everyone did one and posted a pic of their clear result on the WhatsApp. It was a little bit of a 'papers please' approach to the event. No papers, no access to Uncle Albert. I imagine similar is happening all over the country.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.
Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?
Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.
Oh so now you're a grandfather you've come over all wise and knowledgeable, eh?
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).
Look at the regional graphs - that's why I posted them. An iron law of the epidemic is that what starts happening in a couple of regions, will be coming to your area. Real soon now....
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Good for them.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
Vaccines have indeed been rolled out, but the state of the vaccination programme varies wildly between the states.
According to the helpful resource provided by ourworldindata.org, as of yesterday the UK had delivered 178 doses per 100 people, versus 146 in the US. However, looking at the states individually, only one (Vermont, 190 doses/100 people) is ahead of us, whereas at the other end of the scale Idaho has only managed 110.
In short, if Britain, which has managed to get at least one dose into almost 90% of everyone over the age of 12, is meant to be in considerable peril from Omicron, the Americans may well be stuffed as TSE suggests.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.
Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?
Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.
Oh so now you're a grandfather you've come over all wise and knowledgeable, eh?
Very good. I was wise and knowledgeable before, but grandfather-hood has led to an exponential growth in my wisdom and knowledgeability. Sadly, it's not contagious.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).
Look at the regional graphs - that's why I posted them. An iron law of the epidemic is that what starts happening in a couple of regions, will be coming to your area. Real soon now....
Those London admission figures look bad - but it's also worth remembering that London has lower vaccinations levels than elsewhere.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
Bit weak, mate.
On the subject of personal responsibility. Consider the following thought experiment...
Take a legally owned, empty shotgun into the garden, point it at the neighbours and go click.
The real world number on accidents with guns suggest that the chance of something awful happening is in the 1 in a million line.
Do that and you are looking at societal condemnation and prison.
Go down the pub, when feeling rough and give your neighbour COVID.....
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Good for them.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
Vaccines have indeed been rolled out, but the state of the vaccination programme varies wildly between the states.
According to the helpful resource provided by ourworldindata.org, as of yesterday the UK had delivered 178 doses per 100 people, versus 146 in the US. However, looking at the states individually, only one (Vermont, 190 doses/100 people) is ahead of us, whereas at the other end of the scale Idaho has only managed 110.
In short, if Britain, which has managed to get at least one dose into almost 90% of everyone over the age of 12, is meant to be in considerable peril from Omicron, the Americans may well be stuffed as TSE suggests.
Let it rip.
If the unvaccinated in America die heavily then that could save help American democracy. Every cloud and all that . . .
18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.
Violent criminal who is "one of us." Not "one of them." Aside from the sentence. 3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon? If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.
A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"
I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"
Quite.
You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.
Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?
Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)
You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...
Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!
Safer, generally.
A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.
Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.
The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.
Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.
It's also narrow and you have to give way at side roads.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
Alternatively, he is willing to accept the risks that are part of life and is taking responsibility for his own health.
And sheer irresponsibility for those who may die because he wants to "crack on".
But hang on, I'm 60 and I want to crack on, as do all the people in their 80s who I know well enough to know what they think about it. They and I would much rather life went on, at considerable enhanced personal risk, than more lockdown.
I agree with you, I have had two Christmas socials already with four more coming up before Christmas and intend to attend all of them. I'm 56, many of my friends are older. We have reduced the risk to an acceptable level, let's get on with it.
The biggest risk is getting pinged.
Think about that - there is a risk that because someone you were near had an infection you would be confined to your home for 10 days.
Does anyone still use track and trace?
No, the biggest risk is that you and yours actually contract the thing. That is what is causing labour shortages in everything from Scotrail to DHL to the Premier League already.
A lot of people seem to be saying they've tested positive but without symptoms which makes me wonder, if you didn't have to, why they took the test?
If you're positive and asymptomatic and never take a test, then are you a "case"?
If it's a home LFT, then no. Most people who test positively at home just stay home.
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
Who exactly is going to enforce these vaxports? I suppose you could make them a sale condition of buying a round, which is not quite the same thing.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
You think the government is trying to play this down? They'r desperate to amp up fear - if reinfection starts to drive a material number, they will be added in pdq.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).
Look at the regional graphs - that's why I posted them. An iron law of the epidemic is that what starts happening in a couple of regions, will be coming to your area. Real soon now....
You may well be right, although regarding London, it's hampered by high population density, high reliance on public transport, and a lot of people who are poor and/or from ethnic minorities - both indicators for suboptimal health outcomes and vaccine hesitancy. If the hospitalisation problem spreads into the Home Counties then that would be a more alarming indicator of a possible re-run of last January.
Having studied all the experts on this thread, and other sources, I'm pleased to say I think I've come up with a definitive answer to the question of the impact of Omicron in the UK.
Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?
Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.
Oh so now you're a grandfather you've come over all wise and knowledgeable, eh?
Very good. I was wise and knowledgeable before, but grandfather-hood has led to an exponential growth in my wisdom and knowledgeability. Sadly, it's not contagious.
Sagacity is the word you are looking for.
You now have more sagacity than Plato's Academy during a lunchtime test of the Philosopher's Dining problem.
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Hospitalisation rising but only 4% higher than same day last week (7672 vs 7373).
Look at the regional graphs - that's why I posted them. An iron law of the epidemic is that what starts happening in a couple of regions, will be coming to your area. Real soon now....
For once I'm glad that London always gets things first.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Moron.
Really? - we laughed when Robert Peston made the comment a while back but I don't think the methodology has changed.
Oh and I would recommend posting something beyond a single word reply - it's not adding anything and will probably result in someone's account being suspended as the admins get fed up with it.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.
18 months. What do we think? I'm not sure why the driver wasn't prosecuted for attempted murder.
Violent criminal who is "one of us." Not "one of them." Aside from the sentence. 3 year ban? For a man prepared to use his vehicle as a weapon? If it had been a gun, would he ever be allowed one again? I think not.
A 74 year old engineer is "one of us?"
I think this is another case of "With cars, it is completely different" - it's as if there is a special sentencing section for "done with a car"
Quite.
You would have thought that the concept of a car as a weapon had been demonstrated well enough recently.
Why is it OK to terrorise cyclists but not pedestrians?
Only fair, seeingf as how cyclists terrorise us pedestrians. (Not serious in that sense: but still there is an issue.)
You might want to ask why cyclists are terrorising pedestrians (if they are, I don't) when it is always quicker to ride on the road...
Where I live, they find it quicker to ride on the pavement and n pedestrianised areas!
Safer, generally.
A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.
Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.
The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.
Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.
It's also narrow and you have to give way at side roads.
Someone offended me quite badly by suggesting it was a chocolate teapot.
If you have a chocolate teapot, you have chocolate. If you have a complete useless cyclepath, you don't have chocolate....
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
Also Ottolenghi in Spitalfields on Saturday.
Basically I've eaten really well this weekend. And so have lots of others. Don't see people voting with their feet in the same way as before.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
That's probably because both cases and deaths fell to a fraction of their level in early January within a few months of him leaving office. They have picked up and are currently running at about half that peak level. Once omicron takes hold I am guessing we will see new peaks, but those affected will mostly be freedom loving Trumpster anti vaxers so they won't be complaining and I'm guessing nobody else will either.
And we lack a President who will create a story by saying or doing something moronic on a daily basis.
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
Who exactly is going to enforce these vaxports? I suppose you could make them a sale condition of buying a round, which is not quite the same thing.
That is a good point. In theory I expect the poor bloody businesses are going to have to check them on the doors. In practice, it's not as if the police are liable to be dressing up in civvies and doing secret customer swoops on these establishments to see whether or not they're bothering. Or at least I hope not.
The authorities may be reliant on indignant sticklers amongst the general population to grass up places that aren't doing the checks.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Moron.
Really - we laughed when Robert Peston made the comment a while back but I don't think the methodology has changed.
No the moronic bit is suggesting that Omicron completely evades immunity from prior infection. We know that not to be true. RP is a moron and he's making things up to support his pro-lockdown forever view. I know he says otherwise but every post he makes is filled with the same bullshit zero COVID rhetoric from last year.
I have to say in two years "exit the virus" is surely up there among the most stupid things said about it. That there's anyone who believes that is worrying and the government Comms needs to be updated to warn everyone that we're all going to get it and the best way to decrease likelihood of symptoms is to get vaccinated. There is no other game in town.
I agree! So why do you keep saying we had an exit wave?
Because we did? Immunity and vaccine coverage in the UK is the highest in the world. Despite all of the doom rhetoric from the scientists we're not in any lockdown while most of Europe has got severe restrictions on going anywhere. Omicron may change the game, it may not. But in the summer to now 11-13m people got the virus, 70-80% of them unvaccinated by choice. Would you rather they had zero immunity heading into the Omicron wave?
Don't take my word for it Chris Whitty said it in June. It was and remains the right strategy, everyone is going ti get COVID. Lockdowns and NPIs displace infections, but now the vaccine cavalry is already here, last winter it wasn't so displacement of 1000 infections was ~9.5 lives saved. Today displacement of infections will save close to zero lives, anyone who wants to be can get vaccinated. I walked into a pharmacy with my wife yesterday and we both got our boosters.
Again and again, the only game in town is vaccines. Lockdowns will do nothing because the moment we unlock the virus will be back. Infecting all those same idiots who refused the vaccine. Lockdown to save people who refused the vaccine is immoral, better to tell them to die at home.
The reality is that those who are calling for lockdowns are looking for a legislative safety blanket where none exists.
It has been my view throughout that it is not the role of the state to protect people from a virus. Measures to fundamentally restrict the liberties of e.g. children to 'protect' the very elderly and vulnerable are not IMO morally justified at the current CFR. Excessive safetyism is not a road I want the state to go down.
I am very proud to see so many Tory 'rebel' MPs standing up for liberty today. I would vote exactly the same way.
So I read, I am a foaming lockdown forever advocate. And yet I said days ago I would also vote against. We need measures to sustain businesses who get screwed by the shutdown being caused by Omicron running rampant. Not half-measures and excuses.
We need to see MPs back reviewing the latest data and proposals as they come out - instead Javid is proposing another enabling act where Peppa will rule by decree through the Christmas recess.
Unacceptable.
Or let those of us who want to continue as is, continue.
I'm in my early 30s. As are most of my mates. All of us just want to crack on.
Could you make it any more obvious you think you're invulnerable and you couldn't give a damn about anyone else?
@Chris, I'm in my late 20s so liable to piss you off even more than Mortimer.
The disease appears to be even less dangerous to us than it was before. We've got vaxxed even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so.
Uni/college students and school pupils have missed out on the education that we all got. And people my age haven't travelled, met partners etc for nearly two years.
Do you give a damn about anyone else?
Not about people who are so self-obsessed that they're willing to put a higher priority on travel, "meeting partners" and respecting their anti-vaccine fantasies than on giving a toss whether other people die or not.
It's not that I think I'm particularly at risk myself. I don't have any particular risk factors and I've had a booster. It's just that people like you turn my stomach with your grotesque selfishness.
Ummm, other than @rural_voter, who has "anti-vaccine fantasies" on here?
The bloke I was replying to, in the post I was replying to, when he said "even when it was probably not in our personal interest to do so [get vaccinated, even though he was in his 20s]".
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
Bit weak, mate.
Bit weak? Quoting the anti-vaccine crap I was replying to?
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
This has been the case for many months. Not heard of a single restaurant that requires them, although lots of events venues have been doing so. Any restaurant with a front of house could have implemented it anytime since July without much hassle. Massive seller of your 60-70%, doubt it would be even 6-7% voluntarily enforcing it.
Regarding vaccine passports, can I suggest a compromise?
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Friday night in the city. Relais de Venise had a queue out of the door. The Counting House was rammo until later than usual.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
London was busy all weekend. The only place that was quiet was the restaurant in Fenwicks Bond Street and that was probably because few people know Fenwicks exists (it was surprisingly quiet given how busy Bond Street was).
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.
In Wales, if you test positive after six weeks, you get counted again in the headline figure.
Does anyone have a précis of the Omicron situation in the United States?
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Since the orange one left office, our media has stopped reporting on COVID in the US&A.
If anything some of the states are becoming more idiotically opposed to taking action agains the coronavirus since Trump left. Their leaders see to see it as taking a stand against Biden and the Democrats by allowing many more of those they represent to die in the name of "freedom".
Good for them.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
Vaccines have indeed been rolled out, but the state of the vaccination programme varies wildly between the states.
According to the helpful resource provided by ourworldindata.org, as of yesterday the UK had delivered 178 doses per 100 people, versus 146 in the US. However, looking at the states individually, only one (Vermont, 190 doses/100 people) is ahead of us, whereas at the other end of the scale Idaho has only managed 110.
In short, if Britain, which has managed to get at least one dose into almost 90% of everyone over the age of 12, is meant to be in considerable peril from Omicron, the Americans may well be stuffed as TSE suggests.
I have friends who have a blueberry and hazelnut farm in Oregon. They are vaccinated, but it probably doesn't matter. The reality is that they sometimes go weeks without seeing other people. Idaho is going to have plenty of people on farms like that, who simply don't interact with other people regularly.
Rural America probably doesn't have to worry too much.
Urban America, on the other hand, will have big problems.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Moron.
Bless
Going to provide evidence that Omicron completely evades prior immunity then? Oh right you can't.
Don't forget folks, the infections number is the government measure that counts first infections only. And Omicron cares not whether you had a previous variant.
Isn’t that fake news? It has greater reinfections than Delta, but still in low single figures in percentage terms I think.
"Results 35,670 suspected reinfections were identified among 2,796,982 individuals with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 who had a positive test result at least 90 days prior to 27 November 2021."
Comments
On Christmas Eve I'm watching Love Actually then followed by Die Hard.
Alan Rickman will be punished for what he did to Emma Thompson.
#OnlyLegitimateReasonToWatchDieHardOnChristmasEve
57.5% Week on Week increase.
Easily going to hit a million doses a day. Easily going to get everyone offered a vaccine by New Years Eve I suspect.
Already 41.9% over over-12s are boosted.
Deaths still seem to be flat at the least and possibly still declining. Admissions though is the worry, a couple of 900+ days in the last week.
Seems impolite not to.
Overall, another day with no apocalypse.
Edit: for the avoidance of doubt, mine was mostly a joke entry, and I hope very much it doesn't win.
So hospitality businesses etc can be destroyed to protect the NHS but NHS staff can't be expected to get the vaccine?
Labour are nowhere close to fit for office.
It's a bit more of an intervention than simply asking people to stay home if symptomatic, but not an assault on liberty. I'd hope that LFTs for asymptomatic testing would be dropped after this winter.
Given the high level of unvaccinated out there it's going to cause carnage isn't it?
Especially when you get to the end of time.
Vaccines have been rolled out, why shouldn't they have freedom? 👍
Senior Tory MP: “8 out of 10”
😔
https://twitter.com/MhariAurora/status/1470785055656132624
Cases - rising. London is really accelerating now. Reaching into the older groups
Admissions - rising. London is really not looking good
Deaths - surprisingly flat so far. That will change.
Firms are free to require vaccine passports, but are not obliged. We would probably find that 60-70% of restaurants would require them (pretty much any with elder clientele), but individual businesses would not be forced to require them.
Recommendation: Don't spout crap, unless you can be bothered to read what you're spouting about (or unless this site is now an anti-vaccination propaganda outlet).
Urges ministers to promise they will give MPs a say before imposing any tougher measures.
https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1470794331296514054
Can't find it anywhere.
This winter is going to be awful and entirely avoidably awful for many of our neighbouring nations because they were so badly mismanaged they failed to get a steady state of having an exit wave over the summer.
No immunity and now Omicron. It was entirely preventable the imbeciles just needed to lift restrictions and let it rip over the summer. Instead now it's going to rip over the winter for more atrocious consequences.
What a tragedy. It's absolutely awful.
A comic note - on one of the approach roads to Richmond park, the cycle path is a bit of a wide pavement, marked off.
Since Richmond park is a very popular venue for cycling, you might think this gets used a lot. It doesn't.
The pavement is moderately irregular - to the point of making it unpleasant to ride on with a mountain bike with front fork suspension.
Nearly all of the cyclists heading to and from Richmond park are on racing bikes - part of the attraction of Richmond Park is the good road surfaces.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/
Question: Will Omicron lead to unbearable pressure on the NHS and an unacceptable level of deaths?
Answer: I don't know, and nor does anybody else. Get back to me in 4-6 weeks for an updated definitive answer.
According to the helpful resource provided by ourworldindata.org, as of yesterday the UK had delivered 178 doses per 100 people, versus 146 in the US. However, looking at the states individually, only one (Vermont, 190 doses/100 people) is ahead of us, whereas at the other end of the scale Idaho has only managed 110.
In short, if Britain, which has managed to get at least one dose into almost 90% of everyone over the age of 12, is meant to be in considerable peril from Omicron, the Americans may well be stuffed as TSE suggests.
Was in Balham on Sunday. Pub quiz as busy and rowdy as ever.
I went to Soho last night.
The waiting time for Zedels was 90 minutes.
On a Monday.
My main impression so far:
Many people are happy to revert to WFH in the run up to Xmas. But they're still boozing and enjoying themselves. And us youngsters want to crack on.
I'd be surprised if restos wanted added work of vaccine passports. They all seem understaffed at the moment as it is.
Take a legally owned, empty shotgun into the garden, point it at the neighbours and go click.
The real world number on accidents with guns suggest that the chance of something awful happening is in the 1 in a million line.
Do that and you are looking at societal condemnation and prison.
Go down the pub, when feeling rough and give your neighbour COVID.....
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/north-shropshire-by-election/234187518/all-markets https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1470796578973696012/photo/1
If the unvaccinated in America die heavily then that could save help American democracy. Every cloud and all that . . .
You're making Chris look calm and measured.
You now have more sagacity than Plato's Academy during a lunchtime test of the Philosopher's Dining problem.
Oh and I would recommend posting something beyond a single word reply - it's not adding anything and will probably result in someone's account being suspended as the admins get fed up with it.
If you have a chocolate teapot, you have chocolate. If you have a complete useless cyclepath, you don't have chocolate....
Basically I've eaten really well this weekend. And so have lots of others. Don't see people voting with their feet in the same way as before.
The authorities may be reliant on indignant sticklers amongst the general population to grass up places that aren't doing the checks.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings
Latest is yesterday's
Jesus wept!
There has been no explosion in Welsh cases.
https://smarkets.com/event/42517275/politics/uk/coronavirus/pubs-to-close-again
Rural America probably doesn't have to worry too much.
Urban America, on the other hand, will have big problems.
Raw numbers
"Results 35,670 suspected reinfections were identified among 2,796,982 individuals with laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 who had a positive test result at least 90 days prior to 27 November 2021."