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YouGov polls: From Hartlepool to North Shropshire – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited December 2021 in General
imageYouGov polls: From Hartlepool to North Shropshire – politicalbetting.com

What I find interesting looking at the above table is just how well the Tories were doing in the early summer around the time of the Hartlepool by-election which of course became a Labour loss and a Conservative gain. This, f course, was at the peak of the vaccine bounce when Johnson’s government was getting the credit for the vaccine programme.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    edited December 2021

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Depends if he is on paternity leav e.

    Let Raab C. Brexit take the blame for following, perhaps weeks later?

    'Further Covid restrictions between Christmas and New Year are under discussion in government, Dominic Raab has said, but stressed he believed plan B measures should be enough to allow people to spend the season with loved ones. [...]

    Asked if the measures, which also include guidance on working from home, were enough to stop the spread of the virus without further restrictions, Raab said: “These issues are always discussed but we have got plan B, that’s what we think is required over the Christmas period.”

    The deputy prime minister and justice secretary told Times Radio he thought Christmas Day was safe to spend with family. “I think it is. I want to give that reassurance. I think people can look forward to spending Christmas with loved ones in a way that we couldn’t last year.”'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/more-covid-curbs-possible-but-families-can-have-christmas-together-raab
  • If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Hopefully absolutely nothing.

    Zero confidence in that though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Chris said:

    Have we covered this? Some excellent preliminary data from South Africa on the real-world impact of Omicron by vaccination status:

    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1470684351151157252

    So protection of two doses against hospitalisation down to only 60-70% in older age groups versus 93% for the Delta wave? That makes the Omicron wave more severe than the Delta wave, not less, yes?
    Depends how quickly we can get the boosters out........
    Much of the reduction in efficacy comes among the oldest cohorts. They will already – for the most part – have been boostered... suggests we might just be ahead of this...

    VE 2x Pfizer vs Omicron

    18-29: 92%
    30-39: 75%
    40-49: 82%
    50-59: 74%
    60-69: 67%
    70-79: 59%
    Our projected CFR lends itself lowish due to the stratification of booster uptake in the over 70s (All over 80% of population) vs 2nd dose in the 18 - 29s (Sub 60%).
    Yes, that's my reading of the situation too. I realise that being confident on covid is unwise, but from the raw numbers it does look like we might be ahead of it because the oldies are already heavily boosted. The risk is now around the sheer number of infections: implies shielding for the unvaxxed and infirm, not for everyone.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,849
    edited December 2021

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Boris is not a leader. He’ll toe the line.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Ailbhe Rea in the Staggers email this morning:

    "The [Tory backbench MP] rebellion today is a perfect storm of longstanding resistance to the government's approach to coronavirus, teamed with a new collapse of confidence from backbenchers in the direction set by Downing Street. It doesn't matter in the immediate term, but does in the longer term. The vote today marks a decisive, symbolic break between the Conservative parliamentary party and the government on coronavirus just as a new variant takes hold, and a new low for Boris Johnson as his grip on his party weakens and weakens."
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920
    Intuitively I think the next polls will show a slight Tory recovery, simply due to the absence of new scandals for a few days plus Johnson sounding coherent in his broadcast (he's fine with pre-records - it's when he interacts that he starts stumbling). Starmer's response was OK but didn't add much - my memory of the two comes down to "Get boosted" and "Agreed". Whether that will save the Tories in NS I dunno, but 62% does sound more emphatic than the mixed reports we're getting from the seat. Narrow Tory hold, maybe?

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Hopefully absolutely nothing.

    Zero confidence in that though.
    The willingness of Boris just to fold back into comprehensive restrictions is quite astounding. We need new ideas – imaginative thinking. Where is it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Boris is not a leader. He’ll tow the line.
    Er, 'toe'. Leaders tow ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,756
    "Last call for entries:Competition closing at noon."

    930,000
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,334
    edited December 2021
    deleted
  • Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    I’m sure he has a ctrl-v for that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108

    Intuitively I think the next polls will show a slight Tory recovery, simply due to the absence of new scandals for a few days plus Johnson sounding coherent in his broadcast (he's fine with pre-records - it's when he interacts that he starts stumbling). Starmer's response was OK but didn't add much - my memory of the two comes down to "Get boosted" and "Agreed". Whether that will save the Tories in NS I dunno, but 62% does sound more emphatic than the mixed reports we're getting from the seat. Narrow Tory hold, maybe?

    And of course, in these circumstances and all the hype and speculation, even a narrow hold will be treated as a Conservative triumph!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
  • Looking at that YouGov table, Conservatives are broadly down 12, Labour up 8 and Refuk up 4. LibDems, SNP and Greens much of a muchness.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,461
    Andy_JS said:

    "Last call for entries:Competition closing at noon."

    930,000

    1000001
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,560
    edited December 2021


    Yes, that's my reading of the situation too. I realise that being confident on covid is unwise, but from the raw numbers it does look like we might be ahead of it because the oldies are already heavily boosted. The risk is now around the sheer number of infections: implies shielding for the unvaxxed and infirm, not for everyone.

    Conversely, any country which hasn't yet got to deliver a high proportion of booster shots for the more vulnerable cohorts is likely to be in big trouble. The Netherlands, for example, is miles behind.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    On topic, I took a look at this market this morning. Tories not long enough for my tastes. I'd want 2/1 on them now.

    There is no value at all on the Liberals.
  • Useful info: if you have a booking, but keen to get booster earlier by walk-in you can.

    The system will automatically cancel your appointment, which opens it up for the next person #GetBoosted 💉
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,915
    Carnyx said:

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Boris is not a leader. He’ll tow the line.
    Er, 'toe'. Leaders tow ...
    Barge ponies "tow".
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499


    Yes, that's my reading of the situation too. I realise that being confident on covid is unwise, but from the raw numbers it does look like we might be ahead of it because the oldies are already heavily boosted. The risk is now around the sheer number of infections: implies shielding for the unvaxxed and infirm, not for everyone.

    Conversely, any country which hasn't yet got to deliver a high proportion of booster shots for the more vulnerable cohorts is likely to be in big trouble. The Netherlands, for example, is miles behind.
    Very true.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,920
    Carnyx said:

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Depends if he is on paternity leav e.

    Let Raab C. Brexit take the blame for following, perhaps weeks later?

    'Further Covid restrictions between Christmas and New Year are under discussion in government, Dominic Raab has said, but stressed he believed plan B measures should be enough to allow people to spend the season with loved ones. [...]

    Asked if the measures, which also include guidance on working from home, were enough to stop the spread of the virus without further restrictions, Raab said: “These issues are always discussed but we have got plan B, that’s what we think is required over the Christmas period.”

    The deputy prime minister and justice secretary told Times Radio he thought Christmas Day was safe to spend with family. “I think it is. I want to give that reassurance. I think people can look forward to spending Christmas with loved ones in a way that we couldn’t last year.”'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/more-covid-curbs-possible-but-families-can-have-christmas-together-raab
    This sounds too political for me - a translation of "We're going to need more restrictions but with Omicron not yet entirely rampant maybe we can get away with announcing them on Dec 27". I'd respect a decision that we don't need more restrictions, or that we do, but postponement to avoid unpopular Christmas decisions is weak. People mostly want a clear lead more than they want a Christmas dinner party.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    On the schools (etc issue, this from today's Guardian..... I know, I know..... is interesting:

    'It may not be rocket science, but researchers have found aerospace engineers and brain surgeons are not necessarily brighter than the general population.

    Researchers examined data from an international cohort of 329 aerospace engineers and 72 neurosurgeons who completed 12 tasks online using the Great British Intelligence Test (GBIT) from the Cognitron platform, as well as answering questions around their age, sex and levels of experience in their speciality.
    The tasks examined various aspects of cognition, including planning and reasoning, working memory, attention, and emotion processing abilities. The researchers then compared the results against those previously gathered from more than 18,000 members of the British public.

    The findings, which were published in the festive edition of the BMJ, reveal that only neurosurgeons showed a significant difference, with quicker problem-solving speed but slower memory recall compared with the general population.'
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 709
    A fun report by Scottish parliament researchers (SPICe) on the Scottish rate of income tax.

    Looking forward to @malcolmg 's explosive reaction.

    https://digitalpublications.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefings/Report/2021/8/12/a6cb9582-0b7e-11ea-9528-000d3a23af40#ab7d244c-0b7e-11ea-9538-000d3a23af40.dita
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021


    Yes, that's my reading of the situation too. I realise that being confident on covid is unwise, but from the raw numbers it does look like we might be ahead of it because the oldies are already heavily boosted. The risk is now around the sheer number of infections: implies shielding for the unvaxxed and infirm, not for everyone.

    Conversely, any country which hasn't yet got to deliver a high proportion of booster shots for the more vulnerable cohorts is likely to be in big trouble. The Netherlands, for example, is miles behind.
    Even worse for the likes of Bulgaria, only 25% even had 2 doses....massive antivaxxing there.
  • Carnyx said:

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Depends if he is on paternity leav e.

    Let Raab C. Brexit take the blame for following, perhaps weeks later?

    'Further Covid restrictions between Christmas and New Year are under discussion in government, Dominic Raab has said, but stressed he believed plan B measures should be enough to allow people to spend the season with loved ones. [...]

    Asked if the measures, which also include guidance on working from home, were enough to stop the spread of the virus without further restrictions, Raab said: “These issues are always discussed but we have got plan B, that’s what we think is required over the Christmas period.”

    The deputy prime minister and justice secretary told Times Radio he thought Christmas Day was safe to spend with family. “I think it is. I want to give that reassurance. I think people can look forward to spending Christmas with loved ones in a way that we couldn’t last year.”'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/more-covid-curbs-possible-but-families-can-have-christmas-together-raab
    This sounds too political for me - a translation of "We're going to need more restrictions but with Omicron not yet entirely rampant maybe we can get away with announcing them on Dec 27". I'd respect a decision that we don't need more restrictions, or that we do, but postponement to avoid unpopular Christmas decisions is weak. People mostly want a clear lead more than they want a Christmas dinner party.
    They could be taking the view that no one is going to listen to them now and scrap family xmas, so why bother trying.

    I still think lockdown on 3rd Jan.
  • Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    Conversely a "bad" school is where teachers take a jobsworth attitude, attempt to indoctrinate kids with their own very left wing views and take part in the general dumbing down of standards and the removal of any kind of competition or sense of excellence because that is "elitist".

    Most of the alumni of such schools have a choice to educate themselves and catch up (I was one of those), go to prison or be one of the folk that "cringe and grovel " and "know their place".
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,163

    On the schools (etc issue, this from today's Guardian..... I know, I know..... is interesting:

    'It may not be rocket science, but researchers have found aerospace engineers and brain surgeons are not necessarily brighter than the general population.

    Researchers examined data from an international cohort of 329 aerospace engineers and 72 neurosurgeons who completed 12 tasks online using the Great British Intelligence Test (GBIT) from the Cognitron platform, as well as answering questions around their age, sex and levels of experience in their speciality.
    The tasks examined various aspects of cognition, including planning and reasoning, working memory, attention, and emotion processing abilities. The researchers then compared the results against those previously gathered from more than 18,000 members of the British public.

    The findings, which were published in the festive edition of the BMJ, reveal that only neurosurgeons showed a significant difference, with quicker problem-solving speed but slower memory recall compared with the general population.'

    The 'rocket science' thing has always bugged me a bit (perhaps because Im not a rocket scientist) as I don't think the rocket science is really all that hard nowadays. The rocket engineering is damned difficult, but the science of it has been fairly settled for a while.

    (Waits for someone to come and correct me with examples of difficult basic science problems that have been overcome recently)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I actually have some sympathy for the existence of private schools, to give flexibility on such matters as family background. A good friend of mine went to a Headmaster's Conference boarding "public school" as his mother was apt to lapse into schizophrenia - he worked hard and ended up in a decent career. But that was as much the boarding as anything else, rather than the social class thing.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Private schools in Scotland set to lose lucrative tax break from next year

    Independent schools will soon lose their ability to claim charity relief on non-domestic business rates.

    Private schools will lose a lucrative tax break next year after confirmation by the SNP/Green Government.

    Fettes College, which educated former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair, charges over £36,000 a year for boarding.

    Gordonstoun, the alma mater of Princes Charles, rakes in over £40,000 a year to board senior pupils.

    Posh Merchiston Castle school in Edinburgh also charges over £30,000 for some of their pupils.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/private-schools-scotland-set-lose-25686958

    Which just means they will have to offer fewer scholarships and bursaries and become even more exclusive only to children of the rich. Yet another own goal by Sturgeon
    Och well, we'll just have to live without the quality of the likes of Prince Andrew and Tony Blair in our public life (or a bit less of it at any rate).
    Most of our top doctors, surgeons and lawyers also went to private schools. A large proportion of the rest went to grammar schools
    How on earth do the Nordic countries cope? They of course have no top doctors, surgeons or lawyers. What a bunch of basket cases.
    How many big international legal cases are heard in Scandinavia rather than London? How many Scandinavian Nobel prize winners for medicine are there compared to British?
    That is not because of structural faults in the Scandinavian education systems. You’re comparing apples with pears.

    Incidentally, this year’s Scottish Nobel laureate - David MacMillan FRSE, Chemistry - was educated at Bellshill Academy and the University of Glasgow.

    Gordonstoun thickos are mostly a waste a space.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I actually have some sympathy for the existence of private schools, to give flexibility on such matters as family background. A good friend of mine went to a Headmaster's Conference boarding "public school" as his mother was apt to lapse into schizophrenia - he worked hard and ended up in a decent career. But that was as much the boarding as anything else, rather than the social class thing.
    State Boarding schools exist - I believe a poster on here works at one (unless I've picked the wrong Grammar school from the 2 in the town he works in).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I actually have some sympathy for the existence of private schools, to give flexibility on such matters as family background. A good friend of mine went to a Headmaster's Conference boarding "public school" as his mother was apt to lapse into schizophrenia - he worked hard and ended up in a decent career. But that was as much the boarding as anything else, rather than the social class thing.
    I think very few people want to abolish private schools - this is merely a discussion on their tax status.
  • Another massive headache for Johnson looming.

    Take over of BT by foreign investor.

    National security issues?

    Telecoms broadband roll out issues?

    Plus, of course BT privatisation and sale to the little guys was iconic in Thatcher's pomp.

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,461


    Yes, that's my reading of the situation too. I realise that being confident on covid is unwise, but from the raw numbers it does look like we might be ahead of it because the oldies are already heavily boosted. The risk is now around the sheer number of infections: implies shielding for the unvaxxed and infirm, not for everyone.

    Conversely, any country which hasn't yet got to deliver a high proportion of booster shots for the more vulnerable cohorts is likely to be in big trouble. The Netherlands, for example, is miles behind.
    Very true.
    I think the best stat from SA hospitals is just how few people are on oxygen. Im unsure why you would go to hospital with Covid unless it was for oxygen. SA does have a different demographic and more who have had the previous infection than many European Countries but for just 880 out of 60 million people to be on oxygen when such huge numbers have had Omicron gives plenty of hope.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673

    Another massive headache for Johnson looming.

    Take over of BT by foreign investor.

    National security issues?

    Telecoms broadband roll out issues?

    Plus, of course BT privatisation and sale to the little guys was iconic in Thatcher's pomp.

    I’d rather BT/EE was in British hands to be honest.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,915
    edited December 2021
    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    That sounds not unreasonable tbh.

    Your normal nightclub is quite different from a bopalonga pub. And at a time when it moves into nightclub mode, nightclub rules apply.

    The spokesbod from a nightclub was doing the usual complaining thing a couple of days ago claiming there was no significant difference between risks and impact between large and small venues. Which is transparent baloney of the type they have been coming out with since it all started.
  • Eleanor Hayward
    @eleanorhayward
    Police cars revolving lightMuch-needed good news to start the day from South African Medical Research Council.
    Omicron *does* cause milder symptoms, and two Pfizer jabs 70% effective against hospitalisation.
    Study finds there are 38 admissions per 1,000 Omicron cases, compared to 101 per 1,000 for Delta.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    edited December 2021

    Another massive headache for Johnson looming.

    Take over of BT by foreign investor.

    National security issues?

    Telecoms broadband roll out issues?

    Plus, of course BT privatisation and sale to the little guys was iconic in Thatcher's pomp.

    It will be blocked on security issues - little point banning Huawei from EE's network when the Chinese could just buy the whole lot.

    What is scary is how cheap BT is given the value of the infrastructure long term.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,287
    Andy_JS said:

    "Last call for entries:Competition closing at noon."

    930,000

    What's the question?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I actually have some sympathy for the existence of private schools, to give flexibility on such matters as family background. A good friend of mine went to a Headmaster's Conference boarding "public school" as his mother was apt to lapse into schizophrenia - he worked hard and ended up in a decent career. But that was as much the boarding as anything else, rather than the social class thing.
    State Boarding schools exist - I believe a poster on here works at one (unless I've picked the wrong Grammar school from the 2 in the town he works in).
    One point not made about the characteristic 'English Public School' is that such operations are usually Episcopalian (ie C of E, or in Scotland sometimes the sister Episcopalian Church). Compulsory chapel, confirmations encouraged etc. But others exist - RC, RSF etc. THis may be important to some families.

  • eek said:

    Another massive headache for Johnson looming.

    Take over of BT by foreign investor.

    National security issues?

    Telecoms broadband roll out issues?

    Plus, of course BT privatisation and sale to the little guys was iconic in Thatcher's pomp.

    It will be blocked on security issues - little point banning Huawei from EE's network when the Chinese could just buy the whole lot.

    What is scary is how cheap BT is given the value of the infrastructure long term.
    Drahi may be French but he's not stupid.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,461

    Eleanor Hayward
    @eleanorhayward
    Police cars revolving lightMuch-needed good news to start the day from South African Medical Research Council.
    Omicron *does* cause milder symptoms, and two Pfizer jabs 70% effective against hospitalisation.
    Study finds there are 38 admissions per 1,000 Omicron cases, compared to 101 per 1,000 for Delta.

    I imagine these figures are based on SA test results, with our increased testing if the figure was 10% for Delta we would be having 4-5000 admissions a day every day for the past 4 months.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Private schools in Scotland set to lose lucrative tax break from next year

    Independent schools will soon lose their ability to claim charity relief on non-domestic business rates.

    Private schools will lose a lucrative tax break next year after confirmation by the SNP/Green Government.

    Fettes College, which educated former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair, charges over £36,000 a year for boarding.

    Gordonstoun, the alma mater of Princes Charles, rakes in over £40,000 a year to board senior pupils.

    Posh Merchiston Castle school in Edinburgh also charges over £30,000 for some of their pupils.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/private-schools-scotland-set-lose-25686958

    Which just means they will have to offer fewer scholarships and bursaries and become even more exclusive only to children of the rich. Yet another own goal by Sturgeon
    Och well, we'll just have to live without the quality of the likes of Prince Andrew and Tony Blair in our public life (or a bit less of it at any rate).
    Most of our top doctors, surgeons and lawyers also went to private schools. A large proportion of the rest went to grammar schools
    How on earth do the Nordic countries cope? They of course have no top doctors, surgeons or lawyers. What a bunch of basket cases.
    How many big international legal cases are heard in Scandinavia rather than London? How many Scandinavian Nobel prize winners for medicine are there compared to British?
    That is not because of structural faults in the Scandinavian education systems. You’re comparing apples with pears.

    Incidentally, this year’s Scottish Nobel laureate - David MacMillan FRSE, Chemistry - was educated at Bellshill Academy and the University of Glasgow.

    Gordonstoun thickos are mostly a waste a space.
    Just wondering how on earth all those Nobel Prize Judges know how to pick prizewinners. A fair bet not too many of them know how to sing about 'going down to the river in pairs' or play the Wall Game.

    https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/about/the-norwegian-nobel-committee/
  • (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Again, given you have to also factor in the very high % of booster vaccination amongst vulnerable groups, plus significant impact of natural immunity for many, how do these figures possibly equate to an NHS crisis, even with high transmission rates.
  • Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school should stretch the brightest, give every pupil a solid grounding in what they need to know to be an engaged citizen and productive member of society, contribute to a local community at ease with itself and above all impart a lifelong curiosity, a somewhat sceptical outlook to authority and a love of learning.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,402
    Interesting interview on BBC News channel this morning. Head of the UK medical diagnostic industry said all LFT kits are imported from China and distributed by US firms. She said British companies were not asked to provide them.
  • Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I actually have some sympathy for the existence of private schools, to give flexibility on such matters as family background. A good friend of mine went to a Headmaster's Conference boarding "public school" as his mother was apt to lapse into schizophrenia - he worked hard and ended up in a decent career. But that was as much the boarding as anything else, rather than the social class thing.
    Independent schooling has much less to do with class than class warriors would have you believe. I went to a really shitty comp, was saved by a good sixth form college and went on to be lucky enough to privately educate my kids. I did it to give me and them choice, nothing else. To me it is no different to choosing to feed your kids the best food you can afford, or give them the best experiences. This can be also done by not choosing independent schooling of course, but if you can afford it there really is nothing wrong with it, and lots to commend it. Twats like Johnson are not typical of the privately educated. The average doctor that you might trust your life to is more typical.
  • Looking at that YouGov table, Conservatives are broadly down 12, Labour up 8 and Refuk up 4. LibDems, SNP and Greens much of a muchness.

    When “much of a muchness” has the SNP on:

    48%
    48%
    48%
    47%
    51%
    47%
    48%
    48%
    47%
    48%

    … in the last 10 full-sample Scottish VI polls, then “much of a muchness” is fine by me.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499

    Carnyx said:

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Depends if he is on paternity leav e.

    Let Raab C. Brexit take the blame for following, perhaps weeks later?

    'Further Covid restrictions between Christmas and New Year are under discussion in government, Dominic Raab has said, but stressed he believed plan B measures should be enough to allow people to spend the season with loved ones. [...]

    Asked if the measures, which also include guidance on working from home, were enough to stop the spread of the virus without further restrictions, Raab said: “These issues are always discussed but we have got plan B, that’s what we think is required over the Christmas period.”

    The deputy prime minister and justice secretary told Times Radio he thought Christmas Day was safe to spend with family. “I think it is. I want to give that reassurance. I think people can look forward to spending Christmas with loved ones in a way that we couldn’t last year.”'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/more-covid-curbs-possible-but-families-can-have-christmas-together-raab
    This sounds too political for me - a translation of "We're going to need more restrictions but with Omicron not yet entirely rampant maybe we can get away with announcing them on Dec 27". I'd respect a decision that we don't need more restrictions, or that we do, but postponement to avoid unpopular Christmas decisions is weak. People mostly want a clear lead more than they want a Christmas dinner party.
    I'm calling bollocks on that. I suspect most people just want to have a proper Christmas with their friends and family, and couldn't give a toss about the latest utterings from a range of third rate politicians.
  • eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Again, given you have to also factor in the very high % of booster vaccination amongst vulnerable groups, plus significant impact of natural immunity for many, how do these figures possibly equate to an NHS crisis, even with high transmission rates.


    Dan obviously reads my posts on PB.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school should stretch the brightest, give every pupil a solid grounding in what they need to know to be an engaged citizen and productive member of society, contribute to a local community at ease with itself and above all impart a lifelong curiosity, a somewhat sceptical outlook to authority and a love of learning.
    You think that, I think that but does 'everyone' here?
  • eekeek Posts: 17,710
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Is that the law or your opinion?
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    And how do pubs without door staff operate in January with that?

    Stupid, stupid idea. If the government proposes that then they've lost their minds.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Private schools in Scotland set to lose lucrative tax break from next year

    Independent schools will soon lose their ability to claim charity relief on non-domestic business rates.

    Private schools will lose a lucrative tax break next year after confirmation by the SNP/Green Government.

    Fettes College, which educated former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair, charges over £36,000 a year for boarding.

    Gordonstoun, the alma mater of Princes Charles, rakes in over £40,000 a year to board senior pupils.

    Posh Merchiston Castle school in Edinburgh also charges over £30,000 for some of their pupils.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/private-schools-scotland-set-lose-25686958

    Which just means they will have to offer fewer scholarships and bursaries and become even more exclusive only to children of the rich. Yet another own goal by Sturgeon
    Och well, we'll just have to live without the quality of the likes of Prince Andrew and Tony Blair in our public life (or a bit less of it at any rate).
    Most of our top doctors, surgeons and lawyers also went to private schools. A large proportion of the rest went to grammar schools
    How on earth do the Nordic countries cope? They of course have no top doctors, surgeons or lawyers. What a bunch of basket cases.
    How many big international legal cases are heard in Scandinavia rather than London? How many Scandinavian Nobel prize winners for medicine are there compared to British?
    That is not because of structural faults in the Scandinavian education systems. You’re comparing apples with pears.

    Incidentally, this year’s Scottish Nobel laureate - David MacMillan FRSE, Chemistry - was educated at Bellshill Academy and the University of Glasgow.

    Gordonstoun thickos are mostly a waste a space.
    Just wondering how on earth all those Nobel Prize Judges know how to pick prizewinners. A fair bet not too many of them know how to sing about 'going down to the river in pairs' or play the Wall Game.

    https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/about/the-norwegian-nobel-committee/
    Indeed. Sticking his organ in a piglet is unlikely to get one former private schooled PM any prizes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,334
    One for @Cyclefree to file in her collection of slippery slope articles.

    Ignore his lies: Boris Johnson is leading an assault on British democracy
    This government is hammering away at the foundations of a free society. Look to Warsaw to see where that can lead.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/ignore-his-lies-for-now-boris-johnson-is-leading-an-assault-on-british-democracy

    I don't think we're about to become Poland - but then again I didn't think, five or six years ago, that Poland would abandon democratic freedoms in an increasing slide toward authoritarianism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    The chart shows how vital it is for Boris the booster programme is as successful as the original vaccination programme was to get him that poll bounce next year.

    However for now North Shropshire certainly remains vulnerable to the LDs
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
    Pubs with dance floors do tend to have door staff, at least from a certain time. Most of the popular places in Newcastle are pubs with dance floors rather than ‘clubs’.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,334
    rkrkrk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Last call for entries:Competition closing at noon."

    930,000

    What's the question?
    We're taking bids on a PB NFT.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298

    Carnyx said:

    If Scotland and Wales bring in rule of 6, what will Boris do?

    Depends if he is on paternity leav e.

    Let Raab C. Brexit take the blame for following, perhaps weeks later?

    'Further Covid restrictions between Christmas and New Year are under discussion in government, Dominic Raab has said, but stressed he believed plan B measures should be enough to allow people to spend the season with loved ones. [...]

    Asked if the measures, which also include guidance on working from home, were enough to stop the spread of the virus without further restrictions, Raab said: “These issues are always discussed but we have got plan B, that’s what we think is required over the Christmas period.”

    The deputy prime minister and justice secretary told Times Radio he thought Christmas Day was safe to spend with family. “I think it is. I want to give that reassurance. I think people can look forward to spending Christmas with loved ones in a way that we couldn’t last year.”'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/14/more-covid-curbs-possible-but-families-can-have-christmas-together-raab
    This sounds too political for me - a translation of "We're going to need more restrictions but with Omicron not yet entirely rampant maybe we can get away with announcing them on Dec 27". I'd respect a decision that we don't need more restrictions, or that we do, but postponement to avoid unpopular Christmas decisions is weak. People mostly want a clear lead more than they want a Christmas dinner party.
    Not to mention that this will completely screw over the hospitality industry who have to place orders for food and drink etc and will then find themselves with unsold stock, closure, no customers and no financial support.

    Daughter's lease ends in March. She may as well hand it back next week if the government do this.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Seriously, how often do you go in a pub? There are three when I can live; I can't imagine two of them asking for such things, and as for the Conservative Club.....
  • Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school should stretch the brightest, give every pupil a solid grounding in what they need to know to be an engaged citizen and productive member of society, contribute to a local community at ease with itself and above all impart a lifelong curiosity, a somewhat sceptical outlook to authority and a love of learning.
    You think that, I think that but does 'everyone' here?
    I don't think they do, no. For some, a good school is one that most people can't go to, that fosters social division and whose main purpose is perpetuating privilege so that we continue to be ruled by a miserable clique of well-spoken nonentities and sociopaths.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,349
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    And how do pubs without door staff operate in January with that?

    Stupid, stupid idea. If the government proposes that then they've lost their minds.
    You could make it a condition of sale of alcohol, like challenge 25 (If it's unable to be door checked)

    Now I know people might head in and drink orange juice but it's a viable method.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,915
    edited December 2021
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I don't think that needs career paths. I'd like to see some research on whether Indy Schools increase diversity and attainment better than state schools - I suspect they do.

    There is a need for alternatives - I have one relative who had to be funded in an Indy School by her family, as the State School could not and would not control bullying, and she had fallen behind.

    She later went to a state weekly boarding school for 2 years, which got her standing on her own 2 feet.

    Eventually caught up, graduated and now works in London.

    My own dad was sent to boarding school (Kingswood, Bath) via teh good offices of the local minister (I assume) which his family could never have afforded (smallholders), because *his* dad was unstable / violent after having been in the trenches in WW1.

    Control by politicians obsessed with control is never a good idea.

    Seeking to undermine some of the best schools in the country for ideology is completely loopy. Update the ideology; this is no longer the 19C.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    No, a good school is one which provides a good education and pupils who go on to have successful and productive careers. Even Sweden now has education vouchers and more choice.

    As opposed to your leftwing definition of a good school ie a school completely under local authority control with parents getting no choice over where to send their children and with no selection by exam or anything else. Even if that school has terrible exam results
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,664
    slade said:

    Interesting interview on BBC News channel this morning. Head of the UK medical diagnostic industry said all LFT kits are imported from China and distributed by US firms. She said British companies were not asked to provide them.

    There is a shortage of LFT kits - I've just tried to get some from a pharmacy and failed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    The chart shows how vital it is for Boris the booster programme is as successful as the original vaccination programme was to get him that poll bounce next year.

    However for now North Shropshire certainly remains vulnerable to the LDs

    Who gives a monkey's gonad about Mr Johnson? (No, don't answer that on reflection; no need.)

    There are other reasons the booster programme is important to the rest of us. And if he has fiddled it for his personal benefit, that will not go down well, as with that confusingly worded announcement at the weekend.
  • eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
    Pubs with dance floors do tend to have door staff, at least from a certain time. Most of the popular places in Newcastle are pubs with dance floors rather than ‘clubs’.
    Not really, no.

    Some city centre pubs might, but lots of pubs won't have door staff and will have an area that is or can become a dance floor on the weekend.

    The question isn't about "the most popular pubs in Newcastle" which will tend to have door staff as will the most popular in Manchester, Liverpool, London and any other city centre.

    What about your local up and down the country? If Miss Cyclefree Jr's pub for locals and tourists in Cumbria has an area that operates as a dance floor but no door staff would you consider that the same as the "most popular" pubs in Newcastle?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    The South African study is being reported by the Times as omicron being 29% milder than original Wuhan covid, not 29% milder than Delta.

    Would that imply even more benignity as compared with Delta?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    Nigelb said:

    One for @Cyclefree to file in her collection of slippery slope articles.

    Ignore his lies: Boris Johnson is leading an assault on British democracy
    This government is hammering away at the foundations of a free society. Look to Warsaw to see where that can lead.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/12/ignore-his-lies-for-now-boris-johnson-is-leading-an-assault-on-british-democracy

    I don't think we're about to become Poland - but then again I didn't think, five or six years ago, that Poland would abandon democratic freedoms in an increasing slide toward authoritarianism.

    I have been saying this for nearly 3 years now.

    I am so fucked off with this and the Covid nonsense.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    No, a good school is one which provides a good education and pupils who go on to have successful and productive careers. Even Sweden now had education vouchers and more choice.

    As opposed to your leftwing definition of a good school ie a school completely under local authority control with parents getting no choice over where to send their children. Even if that school has terrible exam results
    Where did I say that? You're lying about me just so you can make up your own reasons for ignoring arguments.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
    Pubs with dance floors do tend to have door staff, at least from a certain time. Most of the popular places in Newcastle are pubs with dance floors rather than ‘clubs’.
    Not really, no.

    Some city centre pubs might, but lots of pubs won't have door staff and will have an area that is or can become a dance floor on the weekend.

    The question isn't about "the most popular pubs in Newcastle" which will tend to have door staff as will the most popular in Manchester, Liverpool, London and any other city centre.

    What about your local up and down the country? If Miss Cyclefree Jr's pub for locals and tourists in Cumbria has an area that operates as a dance floor but no door staff would you consider that the same as the "most popular" pubs in Newcastle?
    Why do you turn everything into an argument? I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just throwing out some anecdotes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    edited December 2021
    Well here's a reason to go and queue up ASAP - brother in law has tested positive, we were supposed to visit tonight but now obviously not. Sister still hanging in there with a negative LFT, booked in their PCR tests. She blames Boris for not opening up booster shots for over 18s as promised two weeks ago. Tend to agree with her two, announcement was made and then just radio silence for two weeks. They could have easily opened up walk ins for all 18+ the next day and we'd all have gone and got jabbed two weeks ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Seriously, how often do you go in a pub? There are three when I can live; I can't imagine two of them asking for such things, and as for the Conservative Club.....
    If they don't then they could be shut down by the police for breaking the law if vaxports are mandatory by January for pubs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,334
    slade said:

    Interesting interview on BBC News channel this morning. Head of the UK medical diagnostic industry said all LFT kits are imported from China and distributed by US firms. She said British companies were not asked to provide them.

    I noted that on here about 18 months ago.
    Had the government wanted to do anything about developing domestic sourcing, it could have done so long since.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472

    The South African study is being reported by the Times as omicron being 29% milder than original Wuhan covid, not 29% milder than Delta.

    Would that imply even more benignity as compared with Delta?

    If original would COVID was 10, Alpha was 12, Delta was 18, if Omicron is a 7 then that's a pretty good result.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Well here's a reason to go and queue up ASAP - brother in law has tested positive, we were supposed to visit tonight but now obviously not. Sister still hanging in there with a negative LFT, booked in their PCR tests. She blames Boris for not opening up booster shots for over 18s as promised two weeks ago. Tend to agree with her two, announcement was made and then just radio silence for two weeks. They could have easily opened up walk ins for all 18+ the next day and we'd all have gone and got jabbed for two weeks.

    It seems what happened was the NHS told the government we need time to organise this, we can't start until the 13th...and the government clearly went huh ok.

    The fact JVT was only sending out letter for the trained volunteers to return yesterday shows a lack of urgency.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Seriously, how often do you go in a pub? There are three when I can live; I can't imagine two of them asking for such things, and as for the Conservative Club.....
    If they don't then they could be shut down by the police for breaking the law if vaxports are mandatory by January for pubs
    Assuming the Police are competent enough to do that of course
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Is that the law or your opinion?
    Central office missive
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 1,847
    eek said:

    Another massive headache for Johnson looming.

    Take over of BT by foreign investor.

    National security issues?

    Telecoms broadband roll out issues?

    Plus, of course BT privatisation and sale to the little guys was iconic in Thatcher's pomp.

    It will be blocked on security issues - little point banning Huawei from EE's network when the Chinese could just buy the whole lot.

    What is scary is how cheap BT is given the value of the infrastructure long term.
    Pension fund with a company attached, innit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472

    MaxPB said:

    Well here's a reason to go and queue up ASAP - brother in law has tested positive, we were supposed to visit tonight but now obviously not. Sister still hanging in there with a negative LFT, booked in their PCR tests. She blames Boris for not opening up booster shots for over 18s as promised two weeks ago. Tend to agree with her two, announcement was made and then just radio silence for two weeks. They could have easily opened up walk ins for all 18+ the next day and we'd all have gone and got jabbed for two weeks.

    It seems what happened was the NHS told the government we need time to organise this, we can't start until the 13th...and the government clearly went huh ok.
    Which was a stupid decision, we had probably close to 60% more throughput for doses done in the last two weeks if we'd had walk ins and queuing. That's how I'm told the government intends to come close to the 18m target, with walk ins. They could have started that process two weeks earlier and told the NHS bods to actually serve the nation rather than just moan about their lot in life as they usually do.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021

    The South African study is being reported by the Times as omicron being 29% milder than original Wuhan covid, not 29% milder than Delta.

    Would that imply even more benignity as compared with Delta?

    That would make a lot more sense against their hospitalisation rates.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2021

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
    Pubs with dance floors do tend to have door staff, at least from a certain time. Most of the popular places in Newcastle are pubs with dance floors rather than ‘clubs’.
    Not really, no.

    Some city centre pubs might, but lots of pubs won't have door staff and will have an area that is or can become a dance floor on the weekend.

    The question isn't about "the most popular pubs in Newcastle" which will tend to have door staff as will the most popular in Manchester, Liverpool, London and any other city centre.

    What about your local up and down the country? If Miss Cyclefree Jr's pub for locals and tourists in Cumbria has an area that operates as a dance floor but no door staff would you consider that the same as the "most popular" pubs in Newcastle?
    Why do you turn everything into an argument? I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just throwing out some anecdotes.
    You turned it into an argument. I said that nightclubs will have door staff (its a condition of licensing for them) but many pubs won't necessarily. You chose to reply by suggesting pubs would, so I wanted to clarify that for large number that is not the case. Had you not contradicted me, there wouldn't have been an argument.

    That some do have door staff would only be relevant if all did, if you're extending the regulations to all of them. It is not true that all do, not by a longshot.

    Its easy enough for nightclubs (or pubs with door staff) to check vaxxports on the way in. Its not the case for pubs, including pubs with dancefloors, that don't have door staff.

    @eek suggested it was insanity to have nightclubs require checks but pubs not to do so - its not insane its entirely rational. If pubs aren't required to have door staff [and lots don't] then it also doesn't make sense for them to be obligated to do checks on the doors that nightclubs do.

    The distinction between nightclubs and 'pubs with dancefloors' when it comes to licences and other legal obligations is not a new one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    @Gallowgate have you had your operation? Still got my fingers crossed it goes ahead!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I don't think that needs career paths. I'd like to see some research on whether Indy Schools increase diversity and attainment better than state schools - I suspect they do.

    There is a need for alternatives - I have one relative who had to be funded in an Indy School by her family, as the State School could not and would not control bullying, and she had fallen behind.

    She later went to a state weekly boarding school for 2 years, which got her standing on her own 2 feet.

    Eventually caught up, graduated and now works in London.

    My own dad was sent to boarding school (Kingswood, Bath) via teh good offices of the local minister (I assume) which his family could never have afforded (smallholders), because *his* dad was unstable / violent after having been in the trenches in WW1.

    Control by politicians obsessed with control is never a good idea.

    Seeking to undermine some of the best schools in the country for ideology is completely loopy. Update the ideology; this is no longer the 19C.
    Those are not reasons for independent schools, but they are, quite rightly, reasons for variation in provision. One size fits all is, of course, rubbish, and AFAIK no-one, certainly not me, is suggesting it.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Seriously, how often do you go in a pub? There are three when I can live; I can't imagine two of them asking for such things, and as for the Conservative Club.....
    If they don't then they could be shut down by the police for breaking the law if vaxports are mandatory by January for pubs
    FUDHY is going to send a tank. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,673

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    Why's it a mess?

    Nightclubs have different licences and door staff who can check on the way in.

    Pubs don't necessarily.

    If you think that's the only difference between pubs and nightclubs when it comes to licensing, you couldn't be more wrong. Its bog standard for them not to be the same and its entirely logical.
    Pubs with dance floors do tend to have door staff, at least from a certain time. Most of the popular places in Newcastle are pubs with dance floors rather than ‘clubs’.
    Not really, no.

    Some city centre pubs might, but lots of pubs won't have door staff and will have an area that is or can become a dance floor on the weekend.

    The question isn't about "the most popular pubs in Newcastle" which will tend to have door staff as will the most popular in Manchester, Liverpool, London and any other city centre.

    What about your local up and down the country? If Miss Cyclefree Jr's pub for locals and tourists in Cumbria has an area that operates as a dance floor but no door staff would you consider that the same as the "most popular" pubs in Newcastle?
    Why do you turn everything into an argument? I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just throwing out some anecdotes.
    You turned it into an argument. I said that nightclubs will have door staff (its a condition of licensing for them) but many pubs won't necessarily. You chose to reply by suggesting pubs would, so I wanted to clarify that for large number that is not the case. Had you not contradicted me, there wouldn't have been an argument.

    That some do have door staff would only be relevant if all did, if you're extending the regulations to all of them. It is not true that all do, not by a longshot.

    Its easy enough for nightclubs (or pubs with door staff) to check vaxxports on the way in. Its not the case for pubs, including pubs with dancefloors, that don't have door staff.

    @eek suggested it was insanity to have nightclubs require checks but pubs not to do so - its not insane its entirely rational. If pubs aren't required to have door staff [and lots don't] then it also doesn't make sense for them to be obligated to do checks on the doors that nightclubs do.

    The distinction between nightclubs and 'pubs with dancefloors' when it comes to licences and other legal obligations is not a new one.
    I did nothing of the sort - I merely mused that some pubs do indeed have door staff and are not too dissimilar to nightclubs, exactly what you have just said.

    Regardless — what determines if a pub has door staff or not? The licence?
  • MaxPB said:

    The South African study is being reported by the Times as omicron being 29% milder than original Wuhan covid, not 29% milder than Delta.

    Would that imply even more benignity as compared with Delta?

    If original would COVID was 10, Alpha was 12, Delta was 18, if Omicron is a 7 then that's a pretty good result.
    What was Beta on that scale?

    It seems that Omicron is an evolution of Beta instead of an evolution of Delta isn't it?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,915
    edited December 2021
    ..
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 2,004
    On Topic. Ha ha ha the Boris era is so over. It was always going to be brief - the bestest sweetest promises, and then didn’t want to know us after shagging us

    But what a mess he is leaving the Tory partying in! In the coming general elections the voters aren’t going to have a clue what they stand for 😕
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,472
    Nigelb said:

    slade said:

    Interesting interview on BBC News channel this morning. Head of the UK medical diagnostic industry said all LFT kits are imported from China and distributed by US firms. She said British companies were not asked to provide them.

    I noted that on here about 18 months ago.
    Had the government wanted to do anything about developing domestic sourcing, it could have done so long since.
    Same as PPE we're still at the whim of international markets and hoping Chinese companies don't break their contracts on the instruction of the state like last time. There's been absolutely no joined up thinking, no long term planning and no thought given to how we can become more self reliant as a nation in a crisis.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Nightclubs need to check Covid passports

    But a pub with a dancefloor doesn't

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    · 3h
    🚨 | NEW: Pubs with dance floors won't have to check any COVID passes - until 1am and then they will

    Via @GOVUK

    Who creates this mess of insanity.

    By January all pubs will likely require vaxports whether they have a dance floor or not.

    Vaxports only available to the double vaccinated who have had their boosters
    Seriously, how often do you go in a pub? There are three when I can live; I can't imagine two of them asking for such things, and as for the Conservative Club.....
    If they don't then they could be shut down by the police for breaking the law if vaxports are mandatory by January for pubs
    Including the Con Club, of course.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 12,499
    MaxPB said:

    The South African study is being reported by the Times as omicron being 29% milder than original Wuhan covid, not 29% milder than Delta.

    Would that imply even more benignity as compared with Delta?

    If original would COVID was 10, Alpha was 12, Delta was 18, if Omicron is a 7 then that's a pretty good result.
    Crikey.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pity the thread's changed. I was waiting for a definition from HYUFD of a 'good' school. As opposed to an academic 'hothouse'.

    A good school is one which gives a massively unfair advantage to the elite and produces specimens for the rest of us to cringe and grovel to.

    Not that I agree, obvs.
    I was looking forward to more examples of career paths to help HYUFD justify the existence of private schools when for anyone sane the same example would justify their immediate closure.
    I don't think that needs career paths. I'd like to see some research on whether Indy Schools increase diversity and attainment better than state schools - I suspect they do.

    There is a need for alternatives - I have one relative who had to be funded in an Indy School by her family, as the State School could not and would not control bullying, and she had fallen behind.

    She later went to a state weekly boarding school for 2 years, which got her standing on her own 2 feet.

    Eventually caught up, graduated and now works in London.

    My own dad was sent to boarding school (Kingswood, Bath) via teh good offices of the local minister (I assume) which his family could never have afforded (smallholders), because *his* dad was unstable / violent after having been in the trenches in WW1.

    Control by politicians obsessed with control is never a good idea.

    Seeking to undermine some of the best schools in the country for ideology is completely loopy. Update the ideology; this is no longer the 19C.
    Kingswood is interesting; I've read about it (someone I was interested in went there). A Methodist foundation so somewhat different from the usual "Public School", certainly in origin. My sense was that like the Quaker schools it was very much to give a minority denominational background often not available locally.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,108

    MaxPB said:

    @Gallowgate have you had your operation? Still got my fingers crossed it goes ahead!

    Aye all good - being discharged today tick tock
    Good news. Need something like that. Really pleased for you.
This discussion has been closed.