The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com
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The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com
BREAKING: Sir David Amess MP has been stabbed multiple times at his local constituency surgery at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea.It is believed he has been receiving treatment at the scene.More: https://t.co/4oqOgzMbep pic.twitter.com/loUm9VrwxT
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I just hope he survives. It sounds bad.12
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Poor guy, I'm so sorry. Have often worked with him of animal welfare issues over the years.17
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Shocking news. I hope he is going to be okay.4
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What horrible and shocking news. Hope there’s a good outcome.3
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Thoughts and prays are with him and his family at this time.0
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It is just terrible and shocking newsDavidL said:I just hope he survives. It sounds bad.
Air ambulance was just left1 -
Man arrested at the scene.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/15/conservative-mp-david-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-surgery-church1/0 -
Shocking, yes, though sadly not that surprising. Fingers crossed he pulls through.0
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The worst part is it's not as shocking as it should be.
Hope he makes a full recovery.0 -
Having just googled him and ended up at Wikipedia it seems he has done many good things (I'd be shocked and horrified whatever his record).NickPalmer said:Poor guy, I'm so sorry. Have often worked with him of animal welfare issues over the years.
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We can hope he pulls through. Stephen Timms was attacked with a knife, also at his surgery (the first attempt by Al Qaeda to assassinate someone in this country). Thankfully he did survive.
We can hardly complain if MPs go to Zoom-only surgeries in future.2 -
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.12 -
Go on. Support what Rayner said then.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
I fucking dare you to even try.-1 -
Yes, it's important to note there are many many (the vast majority) of MPs on both sides, which are just decent people trying to do a job.NickPalmer said:Poor guy, I'm so sorry. Have often worked with him of animal welfare issues over the years.
We get to hear about the dicks and the cranks a lot more unfortunately.8 -
I am deeply disturbed by this.
Keeping everything crossed.1 -
https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/
“It is understood the air ambulance has just left the scene, however it is not clear if anybody was in it.”
The pilot, presumably. /inappropriatepedant5 -
Not pronounced dead is pretty good news tbh.0
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I am extremely upset about this and just pray he comes throughCasino_Royale said:I am deeply disturbed by this.
Keeping everything crossed.1 -
Sourceping said:He’s died
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I think you've replied to the wrong post. @gealbhan agrees with you.MarqueeMark said:
Go on. Support what Rayner said then.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
I fucking dare you to even try.2 -
Reported by BBC and Reuters as well.ping said:0 -
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.0 -
Very sad news.2
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Ok fuck....0
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Well that's incredibly sad.
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Statement from Essex Police now on the BBC. Very, very sad news.1
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I think Gealbhan was agreeing with your point.MarqueeMark said:
Go on. Support what Rayner said then.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
I fucking dare you to even try.
I also agree with you. It will be interesting to see how the left - and particularly the Corbynistas - react to this.1 -
Terrible news.
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The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.1 -
Damn.0
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Terrible news, his poor family and friends.3
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Absolutely terrible. RIP. 😢4
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Words fail metlg86 said:Well that's incredibly sad.
I am very emotional about this
Why is it always the best
May the 'Good Lord' be with his family and friends3 -
Really awful news.2
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Poor David Amess, RIP - Leigh on Sea rated the happiest place to live in Britain as well, just goes to show nowhere is safe3
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What absolutely terrible news.
RIP.3 -
Awful, awful news.ping said:
He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.
There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back4 -
What a horrible bit of news. Throw the book at the killer. Life no parole.5
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I mentioned to Mike the other day I was planning on doing a thread on the seminal results of recent general elections and Sir David was going to feature in the 1992 slot.
Up there with Enfield Southgate in 1997.1 -
Very sad news.2
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Careful now. You don't want to end up on Toby Young's list.MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.1 -
Utterly ghastly. Counter terror police involved?0
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Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.2 -
Yes, a police officer at constituency surgeries at least. It would still allow access to the MP, but give them some peace of mind that they have some protection.HYUFD said:
Awful, awful news.ping said:
He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.
There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back3 -
I really do believe any assault against any MP should be classed as if it was a police officer and the sentence must reflect thisMaxPB said:What a horrible bit of news. Throw the book at the killer. Life no parole.
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I remember it well - how young and full of life he was on that night. So sad.TheScreamingEagles said:I mentioned to Mike the other day I was planning on doing a thread on the seminal results of recent general elections and Sir David was going to feature in the 1992 slot.
Up there with Enfield Southgate in 1997.0 -
Oh God.0
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If it IS a terror attack, I can't see anything in his CV that would provoke the usual suspects - Islamists, far Right, renegade Irish. Not even animal rights - he was pro-foxhunting ban and spent much of his career on animal welfare issues
An odd target. So sad and so pointless. Ugh2 -
Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
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He was an MP, a symbol of British democracy. That's enough for some. Although it could simply be a crazed nutter.Leon said:If it IS a terror attack, I can't see anything in his CV that would provoke the usual suspects - Islamists, far Right, renegade Irish. Not even animal rights - he was pro-foxhunting ban and spent much of his career on animal welfare issues
An odd target. So sad and so pointless. Ugh3 -
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?0 -
0
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On the other hand, you'll have push back against that. Think ethnic minority/immigration cases etc...RobD said:
Yes, a police officer at constituency surgeries at least. It would still allow access to the MP, but give them some peace of mind that they have some protection.HYUFD said:
Awful, awful news.ping said:
He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.
There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back
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Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?Foxy said:
Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner10 -
Yep, I tend to agree with that (although noting both that it's - thankfully - not in my hands and that I don't know the full facts, although it's very hard to see any possible mitigation). Similar logic to the Everard case, I think. It strikes at the foundations of our country to kill an MP.MaxPB said:What a horrible bit of news. Throw the book at the killer. Life no parole.
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Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?0
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Doing his job. Serving his community.
Truly shocking.
Two MPs murdered. Another could have been. No more. Please, no more.4 -
The "it's Rayner's doing" proclamations by some on here are in as poor taste as Rayner's original uttering.9
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Also those which directly confront politicians at their house/conference etc. Not on.Leon said:
Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?Foxy said:
Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner1 -
Jesus, that's awful.0
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Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.0
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For me the lack of protection for our political infrastructure is one of its best aspects. It is great that MPs and Ministers mix so freely with the rest of us and are not a class apart. But it becomes increasingly difficult to keep this going after incidents like this. Just as airport security has sucked all the joy out of flying we may find that an essential part of our democracy gets sucked out of surgeries, attendances at fetes etc.MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
This is not just murder by a presumably deranged inadequate, it is an attack on a very important part of our democracy. It is a very sad day.
I really do not want to engage on such a day on your more specific point. Raynor was foolish to say what she did but I really do not think it is appropriate to try to score a point about this today.16 -
Very well put David. This is very sad news and it should just be left there for the moment.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.4 -
Terrible. Utterly reprehensible.
Can't see the traditional MP surgery surviving this second outrage to be honest.0 -
Is anyone saying that? If so, that's ridiculous, it's not her faultMexicanpete said:The "it's Rayner's doing" proclamations by some on here are in as poor taste as Rayner's original uttering.
However the quickest way to get people to kill other people is to dehumanise the target, Cf our discussion of Unit 731 the other day - the Chinese were dehumanised as inferior in the eyes of the Japanese, making it easier to kill them without guilt
Casually calling all Tory MPs "scum" is definitely dehumanising. No MP should use that language of other people, unless they are talking about actual Nazis, ISIS, etc2 -
I think what Rayner said was indefensible. Before this. After this.gealbhan said:
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?
A link is more questionable:
- If someone killed him for being a Conservative, or even Brexit views then that kind of language draws a link, I think.
- If it turns out that it was terrorism in the sense of 'kill an MP, any MP' then any such link is much harder to make.
- If it turns out to be over some more personal matter (e.g. disgruntled over handling/not pursuing some issue) then also hard to make the link.
I think we should all accept that, right now, we don't know. I'll condemn Rayner, but I won't link her comments to this - at least, not yet.3 -
Indeed.Leon said:
Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner
We don't know what's gone on but if one good thing comes out if this appalling event it will be for people to stop looking at each other a "scum" and "traitors" rather than human beings with different points of view.2 -
This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.CarlottaVance said:Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.
7 -
Tweet from the Telegraph blog. He had previously wrote about how Cox's murder was limiting the public's access to MPs.
https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/14490158626991759410 -
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
0 -
Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.0
-
Jesus! What a country we have become. So so sad to see this happen.
Condolences to his family and friends and all those who loved him, inadequate as those words are.5 -
The Guardian says thiseek said:
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
"The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.
"Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery
The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too
But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone0 -
Dear God no. This is appalling. What a world and what a country we live in. RIP.1
-
No, so get off the outrage bus.gealbhan said:
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?
3 -
Wow, stunning lack of grace there.kinabalu said:Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.
1 -
You are trying to convince me, the language of division and hate from party leaders does not encourage division, hate and violence from followers?Selebian said:
I think what Rayner said was indefensible. Before this. After this.gealbhan said:
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?
A link is more questionable:
- If someone killed him for being a Conservative, or even Brexit views then that kind of language draws a link, I think.
- If it turns out that it was terrorism in the sense of 'kill an MP, any MP' then any such link is much harder to make.
- If it turns out to be over some more personal matter (e.g. disgruntled over handling/not pursuing some issue) then also hard to make the link.
I think we should all accept that, right now, we don't know. I'll condemn Rayner, but I won't link her comments to this - at least, not yet.
Goodbye.0 -
That could be standard procedure. Whoever did this will have their life torn apart to understand why and their motivations.Leon said:
The Guardian says thiseek said:
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
"The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.
"Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery
The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too
But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
0 -
Some depressing context from ITN's political editor.
One MP says they were sitting with colleagues recently and so many of them had examples of people actually in prison because of serious death threats against them - they says police tell them to not go public but describes it an “epidemic”
https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/14490096943039815773 -
He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.Leon said:
The Guardian says thiseek said:
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
"The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.
"Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery
The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too
But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone1 -
Rayner is vile. She was using rhetoric designed to play to her base, her supporters. Doubled down on her stupidity. Yet she was effusive with praise and posted highly dignified comments when James Brokenshire died. Awful person, she is.gealbhan said:
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?0 -
Very saddened to hear of the death of Sir David Amess.1
-
That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.tlg86 said:
This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.CarlottaVance said:Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.
But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.5 -
In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything badTaz said:
Wow, stunning lack of grace there.kinabalu said:Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.
Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?1 -
Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.david_herdson said:
That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.tlg86 said:
This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.CarlottaVance said:Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.
But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.0 -
I know this doesn't help now but just to remember times haven't necessarily got worse. Just remember Airey Neave (sp?) and Ian Gow. It does seem to show however that being an MP does seem to increase your risk of being attacked sadly.0
-
"no place in my heart" sounds COLDkinabalu said:
In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything badTaz said:
Wow, stunning lack of grace there.kinabalu said:Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.
Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?3 -
Considering some of the things that you have said in your cups, then perhaps pluck the beam from your own eye.Leon said:
Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?Foxy said:
Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner2 -
OMG, it's just like Jo Cox all over again.
RIP0 -
Yes that would certainly be enough. But, as someone else says below, just being an MP is enoughBlancheLivermore said:
He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.Leon said:
The Guardian says thiseek said:
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
"The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.
"Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery
The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too
But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
For context, however, it is still very rare for a British MP to get murdered, if this list is authoritative
There was a spate in the 70s-80s - Irish terrorism - before that just 3 in 180 years. And now 2 in the last 5 years
Horrible - but still exceptional
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated0 -
Particularly common for female MPs. A good number from different parties stood down last GE and cited abuse and threats as a factor.Nigelb said:Some depressing context from ITN's political editor.
One MP says they were sitting with colleagues recently and so many of them had examples of people actually in prison because of serious death threats against them - they says police tell them to not go public but describes it an “epidemic”
https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/14490096943039815774 -
Being an MP, you inevitably take positions that will cause anger and upset. You can’t, and indeed, shouldn’t try to please everyone all the time. Being an MP means making enemies. The fear of violence should never impact your policy positions.BlancheLivermore said:
He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.Leon said:
The Guardian says thiseek said:
We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.RochdalePioneers said:Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
"The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.
"Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery
The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too
But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
The deal is, as a member of the public, if you’re not happy with your mp, you try to vote them out by convincing your fellow constituents that someone else, or even yourself, would be better.
There’s never any justification for stabby stabby. The problem is entirely with this violent nutjob. His grievance is irrelevant.2 -
So, your 1st post is to say my mention of Amess' iconic 92 GE result showed a stunning lack of grace. And your 2nd post is not about him but all about how vile Angela Rayner is.Taz said:
Rayner is vile. She was using rhetoric designed to play to her base, her supporters. Doubled down on her stupidity. Yet she was effusive with praise and posted highly dignified comments when James Brokenshire died. Awful person, she is.gealbhan said:
So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?Foxy said:
Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.gealbhan said:
You are wrong.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.
Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
Really?
???6 -
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace1 -
Worst response I've seen so far -@Femi_Sorryhttps://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665
Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.
Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
What a twat.6 -
That's why I said WE. I specifically included MEFoxy said:
Considering some of the things that you have said in your cups, then perhaps pluck the beam from your own eye.Leon said:
Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?Foxy said:
Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?MarqueeMark said:
The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.DavidL said:
This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.gealbhan said:
Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.MarqueeMark said:
I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.Theuniondivvie said:
O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.MarqueeMark said:
So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?Philip_Thompson said:Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky
Hope he makes a full recovery.
If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.
Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.
If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner
Believe it or not I have wilfully tempered my rhetoric, for this reason, and I started some time ago0 -
JFC what an unbelievably crass thing to sayBlancheLivermore said:Worst response I've seen so far -
@Femi_Sorryhttps://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665
Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.
Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
What a twat.1
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