On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:
It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.
It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.
A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.
(To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)
Hear, hear. Two of the people who've stuck up for me the most on here in the past are left-leaning posters, who I frequently disagree with. I remember that.
We sometimes let our tempers get the better of us, but there are good people on all sides of the political divide and we should remember the vast majority of us have very positive intentions.
Stabbing is such a horrific way to die. I hope the perpetrator feels the full force of the law.
I appreciate that this is too early, but somehow I hope this is a catalyst for change. Far too many people die from stabbings in the UK. It is utterly essential that MPs can do their work with confidence and without fear.
I know it probably isn't the time to get into this now but of course the problem is that, unlike guns, knives are a fundamental tool in everyone's lives. To deal with stabbings you have to deal with the societal issues that lead people to want to try and harm each other and sadly I don't think that is ever something we will find the solution to. That doesn't mean we can't do various things to try and make people safer but 'knife crime' is really just a particularly effective form of violence and it is dealing with the causing of all societal violence that is the issue.
On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:
It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.
It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.
A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.
(To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)
Thanks - and I will say it was the private norm in Parliament rather than the exception. Frankly MPs of different parties have more in common with each other than people who take a casual interest and post a bit on social media.
Niceness is a personal characteristics, essentially orthogonal to politics - I've known decent people and less decent people right across the spectrum. But few MPs are devoid of genuine concern for our society, our country and our world.
On the Skinners, Dennis's late brother Gordon had a Conservative councillor (Tom Pettengell) as perhaps his closest friend - they went on walking holidays together in the Peak District. Tom, a rock-ribbed Conservative, sat beside me at Gordon's funeral singing the Red Flag - "I'm very glad to do it for Gordon", he said.
I don't know how you improve the security for MPs without getting rid of the constituency surgery (which might just drive the nutters to try other places instead). You could frisk people on their way in but that could be intimidating to a lot of people and wouldn't help with attacks outside the building. A depressing situation where there is no good answer.
If people protest outside MPs houses en mass (like with JRM) then no person can really be safe.
I recently visited a war cemetery in Alsace. French war dead from WW2 and German war dead from WW1. Hard to not be impacted by it. Those that die in public service now should have such a quiet place to be seen to rest.
Rob Ford @robfordmancs · 46m People should not live in fear of a violent death because they step forward to represent their fellow citizens, or work with those who are elected for this task. We have to ask ourselves what has gone wrong in our society when so many do.
I don't know how you improve the security for MPs without getting rid of the constituency surgery (which might just drive the nutters to try other places instead). You could frisk people on their way in but that could be intimidating to a lot of people and wouldn't help with attacks outside the building. A depressing situation where there is no good answer.
If people protest outside MPs houses en mass (like with JRM) then no person can really be safe.
There are two conflicting aspects to this. Firstly, people must have the right to lawfully protest. Secondly, the people they are protesting against must not be placed in danger, or feel in danger.
A part of democracy is about balancing these two factors.
I recently visited a war cemetery in Alsace. French war dead from WW2 and German war dead from WW1. Hard to not be impacted by it. Those that die in public service now should have such a quiet place to be seen to rest.
Isn't there one like near Gallipoli; Mehmets and Tommies side by side?
Jade @JadeBotterill · 1h Ultimately I left my last job because of the overwhelming death threats, I reported over 100 a week once. Usually was around 50 a week. All the police statements, the court cases, it was all just too much. Sending love to one of the bravest women I know right now @YvetteCooperMP
===
I presume some of this is via social media? Tech companies need to do a lot more on this.
I don't know how you improve the security for MPs without getting rid of the constituency surgery (which might just drive the nutters to try other places instead). You could frisk people on their way in but that could be intimidating to a lot of people and wouldn't help with attacks outside the building. A depressing situation where there is no good answer.
If people protest outside MPs houses en mass (like with JRM) then no person can really be safe.
There are two conflicting aspects to this. Firstly, people must have the right to lawfully protest. Secondly, the people they are protesting against must not be placed in danger, or feel in danger.
A part of democracy is about balancing these two factors.
I have nothing but loathing for Rees-Mogg, but there should be specific legislation to prevent people's private homes being targeted by rent-a-mob pillocks. Public figures should not have their family intimidated. It is utterly unacceptable.
Jade @JadeBotterill · 1h Ultimately I left my last job because of the overwhelming death threats, I reported over 100 a week once. Usually was around 50 a week. All the police statements, the court cases, it was all just too much. Sending love to one of the bravest women I know right now @YvetteCooperMP
===
I presume some of this is via social media? Tech companies need to do a lot more on this.
That’s awful. How have we got to this as a society and a nation.
When did we become a society where going around making death threats has become all too common an activity for some people?
When social media took off?
I think it was - things that used to be said down the pub are now posted on social media - often without tone so it's impossible to judge whether they are meant or in jest.
Worse Social media often drags people down particular paths while attempting to keep people on their site.
Jade @JadeBotterill · 1h Ultimately I left my last job because of the overwhelming death threats, I reported over 100 a week once. Usually was around 50 a week. All the police statements, the court cases, it was all just too much. Sending love to one of the bravest women I know right now @YvetteCooperMP
===
I presume some of this is via social media? Tech companies need to do a lot more on this.
Indeed they do. However, they aren't the ones making the threats. Folk need to take responsibility for their actions, and realise words have consequences. The country isn't at ease with itself, and we need to reflect on what role we play in reducing or exacerbating that.
Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 1h I am so so sad to hear of David Amess’s death. What a horrible thing that has happened. Westminster is a village that mourns like any community when we lose one of our own.
When did we become a society where going around making death threats has become all too common an activity for some people?
When social media took off?
Yes, the new thing is the capacity of the message to reach millions instantly. And I think we should all discipline ourselves not to quote or respond to trolls - it really is what they want us to do. They represent no-one but their sad selves.
Just to add, if it's a death threat, rather than something that is merely tasteless, quietly forward to the police. Otherwise, ignore.
Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.
But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?
Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
You are an internet troll.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
When did we become a society where going around making death threats has become all too common an activity for some people?
When social media took off?
Most 'modern' social media all went on-line within a few years of each other in the mid-00s.
YouTube is late 2005. Facebook is autumn 2005 (and then only for a select set of university email addresses) Mobile phones saw an advance a bit earlier, but the first iPhone is late 2007/early 2008 for the UK. Twitter is 2007 .
Pretty much everything else follows from those four advances.
On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:
It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.
It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.
A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.
(To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)
Indeed. There must be lots of MPs from across the aisle who are friends. They shouldn't have to make a big deal of that, its private, but I think we can depressingly predict online at least reaction if they did casually talk about it.
Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.
But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?
Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
You are an internet troll.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
Apportioning blame inappropriately seems a feature of our times. We should lump blame squarely on the murderer. I would like to know what his motivation was, but whatever it was it does not martyr him an any way. He's just a common murderer. Ditto terrorists.
My deepest condolences to David Amess’ friends, family and loved ones. Am very sorry for them all.
There was never a more enthusiastic tribune for Southend than David, who many MPs from across the political spectrum have worked with and respected since he became an MP in 1983.
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
On MPs saying what nice guy/gal someone from an opposing party was when they sadly die:
It'd be nice if they did more of it whilst they were alive. And this goes for all members, from all parties. Perhaps MPs saying: "we disagree on issues, but she/he is a nice person." When they genuinely think that, of course.
It might help get some of the heat out of politics. Passion is good, but not when it crosses over into hatred.
A few years back, Radio 4 had a short series on MPs who were unlikely friends with MPs from other parties. ISTR Dennis Skinner was good friends with a Conservative after one helped the other whilst wheelchair bound.
(To his credit, Nick Palmer has praised Conservatives in unforced circumstances on may occasions.)
Indeed. There must be lots of MPs from across the aisle who are friends. They shouldn't have to make a big deal of that, its private, but I think we can depressingly predict online at least reaction if they did casually talk about it.
At least we're not as bad as America where people who 'reach across the aisle' are noteworthy for that and everyone who doesn't vote as you do is an unperson.
Today is utterly tragic but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that whoever has done this is a disturbed individual and not the norm. Nor must it ever become the norm.
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.
But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?
Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
You are an internet troll.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
Do you not think in this invective there is a point in the making. Rayner calling Tories ‘scum’ simply to pander to her base, or that Tory clown talking about pipe bombs. Totally unacceptable. That language does not help and who knows the impact. Labour are not alone in this. It is not a labour issue. It is an issue of modern politics especially online supporters of main parties.
Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.
But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?
Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
You are an internet troll.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
Apportioning blame inappropriately seems a feature of our times. We should lump blame squarely on the murderer. I would like to know what his motivation was, but whatever it was it does not martyr him an any way. He's just a common murderer. Ditto terrorists.
Humans have a need to attribute “greater reasons” into events which are sometimes just arbitrary random acts of awfulness.
The Onion summed it up well, “World’s Biggest Metaphor strikes Iceberg”.
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Because
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended. 2) suitable workforce already exist 3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Because
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended. 2) suitable workforce already exist 3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
Doesn't seem much of a fraud, the average high street jeweller is marking up diamond rings about that much. Top tips on getting engaged: 1. Don't, 2. buy a ring at auction and have it remade, don't buy new.
Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.
Motivation is irrelevant. He murdered him.
Yes I agree that he is just a murderer. However, motivation is essential to discover why - and we want to know why don't we? Doesn't absolve him in any way I agree. If for no other reason that to stop some folk from using a faulty motivation to bash people they don't like unfairly. (As some posters have risked doing earlier.)
The story is on front pages of the New York Times, Sydney Morning Herald and FAZ. It is important that the death of a Parliamentarian is of global significance.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Time for a new centre-right party in US.
Liz Cheney and co.
If nothing else it would split off some votes and help keep Trump out in 2024 I would have thought? There must be some big money guys who hate what they are being asked to donate to in the current insane GOP.
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
I know the Democrat ones can be pretty crazy, I recall Jon Stewart joking about them, but that's insane. I'd never give a cent to anyone who sent such a thing.
Some posters being a bit hasty? May be best to ascertain the killer's motivation before jumping to conclusions and apportioning blame.
Motivation is irrelevant. He murdered him.
Yes I agree that he is just a murderer. However, motivation is essential to discover why - and we want to know why don't we? Doesn't absolve him in any way I agree. If for no other reason that to stop some folk from using a faulty motivation to bash people they don't like unfairly. (As some posters have risked doing earlier.)
Agreed. It's like trying to understand serial killers or dictators - it's not about excusing, but why even in their damaged way they did it.
On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language. A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
A grim irony from my point of view is that this morning I was teaching Year 12 politics on parliamentary systems and we discussed Hoyle’s pitch about better security for MPs. I used the example of Jo Cox’s murder, I really wish another one hadn’t come up as well.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Time for a new centre-right party in US.
Liz Cheney and co.
The interesting place for me is the Nebraska Legislature. Officially it recognises no party affiliation under their constitution. That is not reflected in practice of course, but fascintating that that is the legal position even.
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Because
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended. 2) suitable workforce already exist 3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....
And it depends how the one goes offline!
Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Time for a new centre-right party in US.
Liz Cheney and co.
If nothing else it would split off some votes and help keep Trump out in 2024 I would have thought? There must be some big money guys who hate what they are being asked to donate to in the current insane GOP.
Well all they need to say if they don't want to throw good money after bad on a lost cause. As a businessman Trump should understand the bottom line lol...
When did we become a society where going around making death threats has become all too common an activity for some people?
When social media took off?
Perhaps there are things that were once said in the heat of the moment under the influence of drink in a pub which can now be sent immediately to anyone from anywhere with minimal effort. It could be just that it's so much more easy to communicate bile and hatred than it was in the past, not that there is more of it about.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Gosh! Only in....
I got on their mailing list (and several other fundamentalist christian, far-right, pro-gun mailing lists) for a while after I attended a US games convention - they would regularly demand that I help save America from evil gun-hating socialists. I amused myself patiently explaining to them that I was a British socialist atheist and an enthusiastic supporter of gun control, so possibly not their prime target audience, and they did eventually give up.
When did we become a society where going around making death threats has become all too common an activity for some people?
When social media took off?
Perhaps there are things that were once said in the heat of the moment under the influence of drink in a pub which can now be sent immediately to anyone from anywhere with minimal effort. It could be just that it's so much more easy to communicate bile and hatred than it was in the past, not that there is more of it about.
Beginning to think that proof of ID for things like Twitter might be a good thing.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Interestingly that suggests Trump will furn for President in 2024 if the GOP retake the House in the Midterms next year and won't if the Democrats hold it
Okay, I concede, we don’t yet know if the assassin shouted die Tory Scum, or die Israeli loving scum as he knifed.
But we can comment and call out how Labour members and tribal supporters on social media, on this thread, are responding this afternoon without any compassion in their hearts or any unspun respect for a murdered democratic opponent, and, if the assailant had shouted die Israeli supporting scum, it’s clear which party has radicalised him is it not?
Instead of working towards presenting a realistic and trustable manifesto at the last election, the Labour Party spent years draping the Palestinian flag in everybody’s faces. If Cocky Pidcock wants to know why she lost, that’s why she lost.
You are an internet troll.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
Do you not think in this invective there is a point in the making. Rayner calling Tories ‘scum’ simply to pander to her base, or that Tory clown talking about pipe bombs. Totally unacceptable. That language does not help and who knows the impact. Labour are not alone in this. It is not a labour issue. It is an issue of modern politics especially online supporters of main parties.
It's hardly unique to modern politics. Think about what Aneurin Bevan said about the Tories. Or Queen Victoria for that matter (though admittedly not in public).
A crackdown on death threats on social media might be a start. How many end in a custodial sentence? This needs to be more socially unacceptable than drink driving. Right now it isn't.
A crackdown on death threats on social media might be a start. How many end in a custodial sentence? This needs to be more socially unacceptable than drink driving. Right now it isn't.
It’s not even the most unacceptable thing on social media...
Not been a great 48 hours in terms of killings internationally. Norway, Kabul, Southend.
Tensions seem to be rising everywhere. Pandemic disruption and rising living costs?
Tensions aren't rising unless we spend far too much time watching the news, (which is what I'm usually guilty of doing).
You don't think so? Was chatting with a homeless guy last night. We ageeed folk from our very different milieus seem to be losing it over the past few weeks. I don’t watch much news. Doubt he does either.
Not been a great 48 hours in terms of killings internationally. Norway, Kabul, Southend.
Tensions seem to be rising everywhere. Pandemic disruption and rising living costs?
Tensions aren't rising unless we spend far too much time watching the news, (which is what I'm usually guilty of doing).
Well, at the moment I have no time at all to watch the news. I get pretty well all my updates from here.
But it looks to me as though the issues arising from the pandemic and the GFC longer ago are just starting to bubble up, this being another example of it.
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Because
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended. 2) suitable workforce already exist 3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....
And it depends how the one goes offline!
Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
Plus there's another reason smaller and modular works which is that the more frequently the development is made the quicker and cheaper it can be developed.
Even if 10 modular mini nukes cost the same as 1 Hinckley C and gave the same output it would still be better because an 11th, 12th and more mini nukes would be able to then be developed for less than the first one cost.
Not been a great 48 hours in terms of killings internationally. Norway, Kabul, Southend.
Tensions seem to be rising everywhere. Pandemic disruption and rising living costs?
Tensions aren't rising unless we spend far too much time watching the news, (which is what I'm usually guilty of doing).
You don't think so? Was chatting with a homeless guy last night. We ageeed folk from our very different milieus seem to be losing it over the past few weeks. I don’t watch much news. Doubt he does either.
I presume you're summarising? 'Milieus' isn't a word I'd stick in the conversation.
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
A crackdown on death threats on social media might be a start. How many end in a custodial sentence? This needs to be more socially unacceptable than drink driving. Right now it isn't.
Unless I see polling evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to believe that most people think death threats are rather more serious than drink driving.
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
Because
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended. 2) suitable workforce already exist 3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....
And it depends how the one goes offline!
Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
Plus there's another reason smaller and modular works which is that the more frequently the development is made the quicker and cheaper it can be developed.
Even if 10 modular mini nukes cost the same as 1 Hinckley C and gave the same output it would still be better because an 11th, 12th and more mini nukes would be able to then be developed for less than the first one cost.
It's certainly a better idea - running 10 things, all the same, is going to teach you much more.
I recently visited a war cemetery in Alsace. French war dead from WW2 and German war dead from WW1. Hard to not be impacted by it. Those that die in public service now should have such a quiet place to be seen to rest.
Isn't there one like near Gallipoli; Mehmets and Tommies side by side?
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
Officiel du gouvernement - Canada I am shocked by the news that British MP Sir David Amess was stabbed and killed today. My thoughts are with his family and loved ones, and on behalf of all Canadians and Parliamentarians, I offer my deepest condolences to his colleagues and all who are mourning this loss. https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1449060690728296448?s=20
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
Interestingly that suggests Trump will furn for President in 2024 if the GOP retake the House in the Midterms next year and won't if the Democrats hold it
That might help the Dems in the midterms if it's generally known. For all the passion for Trump there was plenty on the other side too. Also, amongst neutrals, I'd imagine there are more who fear a Trump return than are hankering for it.
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
How right Donald Trump was. If there wasn't any testing, no one would die of COVID-19!
Well according to the death certificates that would be true.
In Turkmenistan it is true. No covid deaths, but a lot of unexplained pneumonia deaths. 7.5 million vaccines doses though, so whatever they are using must be way better than the crap the rest of the world has been given.
Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?
1) We’re interacting much more than they are. If so, then presumably we should get through it quicker than them.
2) Their current numbers are wrong.
3) Far more of them had already come into contact with COVID before the re-opening. In which case, their total death numbers are probably too low.
When I was in France recently everyone seemed out and about. However the requirement for the bars and restaurants to scan your covid vaccine certificate (paper or phone) was really going down badly with the owners, so I assume they perceive it is having an impact on turnout as the scanning process was very straightforward so I can't think of any other reason why they are so angry. St Malo old town was heaving.
Comments
We sometimes let our tempers get the better of us, but there are good people on all sides of the political divide and we should remember the vast majority of us have very positive intentions.
Niceness is a personal characteristics, essentially orthogonal to politics - I've known decent people and less decent people right across the spectrum. But few MPs are devoid of genuine concern for our society, our country and our world.
On the Skinners, Dennis's late brother Gordon had a Conservative councillor (Tom Pettengell) as perhaps his closest friend - they went on walking holidays together in the Peak District. Tom, a rock-ribbed Conservative, sat beside me at Gordon's funeral singing the Red Flag - "I'm very glad to do it for Gordon", he said.
@robfordmancs
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46m
People should not live in fear of a violent death because they step forward to represent their fellow citizens, or work with those who are elected for this task. We have to ask ourselves what has gone wrong in our society when so many do.
A part of democracy is about balancing these two factors.
Jade
@JadeBotterill
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1h
Ultimately I left my last job because of the overwhelming death threats, I reported over 100 a week once. Usually was around 50 a week. All the police statements, the court cases, it was all just too much. Sending love to one of the bravest women I know right now @YvetteCooperMP
===
I presume some of this is via social media? Tech companies need to do a lot more on this.
When social media took off?
Worse Social media often drags people down particular paths while attempting to keep people on their site.
However, they aren't the ones making the threats. Folk need to take responsibility for their actions, and realise words have consequences.
The country isn't at ease with itself, and we need to reflect on what role we play in reducing or exacerbating that.
Isabel Hardman
@IsabelHardman
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1h
I am so so sad to hear of David Amess’s death. What a horrible thing that has happened. Westminster is a village that mourns like any community when we lose one of our own.
Although a China-syndrome incident could do hundreds of pounds of damage to Derby....
Just to add, if it's a death threat, rather than something that is merely tasteless, quietly forward to the police. Otherwise, ignore.
There have been a fair few tasteless posts today, but yours is fairly close to the top of the list.
Very sad news today. Really affected me.
YouTube is late 2005.
Facebook is autumn 2005 (and then only for a select set of university email addresses)
Mobile phones saw an advance a bit earlier, but the first iPhone is late 2007/early 2008 for the UK.
Twitter is 2007 .
Pretty much everything else follows from those four advances.
There was never a more enthusiastic tribune for Southend than David, who many MPs from across the political spectrum have worked with and respected since he became an MP in 1983.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1449046201391849477?s=20
Today is utterly tragic but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that whoever has done this is a disturbed individual and not the norm. Nor must it ever become the norm.
The Onion summed it up well, “World’s Biggest Metaphor strikes Iceberg”.
A bit like how streakers are dealt with nowadays in sport.
What does that achieve ?
Just curious as to the rationale.
A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.
About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.
Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.
But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...
"We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-58927034
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus
https://www.gbnews.uk/news/sir-david-amess-mp-boris-johnson-says-all-our-hearts-are-filled-with-shock-and-sadness-after-mps-death/141927
Though I presume 3m was the alleged fraud, not the cost of the trial. That might well have been more!
https://www.businessinsider.com/nrcc-accuses-non-donors-of-being-traitor-you-abandoned-trump-2021-10
...The National Republican Congressional Committee sent a fundraising message this month threatening supporters who had not yet donated, calling them a "traitor," The Washington Post reported.
"You abandoned Trump," a text version of the message said. "We were told you were a tried & true, lifelong patriot."
"But when Trump said he'd run for President if we took back the House from Nancy Pelosi...You did nothing. Was Trump wrong about you?" the statement asked....
1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended.
2) suitable workforce already exist
3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.
4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
And it depends how the one goes offline!
Liz Cheney and co.
If nothing else it would split off some votes and help keep Trump out in 2024 I would have thought? There must be some big money guys who hate what they are being asked to donate to in the current insane GOP.
A grim irony from my point of view is that this morning I was teaching Year 12 politics on parliamentary systems and we discussed Hoyle’s pitch about better security for MPs. I used the example of Jo Cox’s murder, I really wish another one hadn’t come up as well.
Tensions seem to be rising everywhere. Pandemic disruption and rising living costs?
Good remarks from Starmer.
Right now it isn't.
@10DowningStreet
·
4m
The Union Flags have been lowered to half-mast above Downing Street as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.
Was chatting with a homeless guy last night. We ageeed folk from our very different milieus seem to be losing it over the past few weeks. I don’t watch much news. Doubt he does either.
But it looks to me as though the issues arising from the pandemic and the GFC longer ago are just starting to bubble up, this being another example of it.
I really, really hope I’m wrong.
Even if 10 modular mini nukes cost the same as 1 Hinckley C and gave the same output it would still be better because an 11th, 12th and more mini nukes would be able to then be developed for less than the first one cost.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last
Is there any sign that excess deaths are actually higher?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58908762
1) We’re interacting much more than they are. If so, then presumably we should get through it quicker than them.
2) Their current numbers are wrong.
3) Far more of them had already come into contact with COVID before the re-opening. In which case, their total death numbers are probably too low.
Officiel du gouvernement - Canada
I am shocked by the news that British MP Sir David Amess was stabbed and killed today. My thoughts are with his family and loved ones, and on behalf of all Canadians and Parliamentarians, I offer my deepest condolences to his colleagues and all who are mourning this loss.
https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1449060690728296448?s=20
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1449062832570617858?s=20
A prediction: the interior will *not* age well. It'll look cr@p in ten years without an f'load of expensive maintenance.