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The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,159
edited October 2021 in General
The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com

BREAKING: Sir David Amess MP has been stabbed multiple times at his local constituency surgery at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea.It is believed he has been receiving treatment at the scene.More: https://t.co/4oqOgzMbep pic.twitter.com/loUm9VrwxT

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Shocking news. I hope he is going to be okay.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    What horrible and shocking news. Hope there’s a good outcome.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Thoughts and prays are with him and his family at this time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    DavidL said:

    I just hope he survives. It sounds bad.

    It is just terrible and shocking news

    Air ambulance was just left
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Man arrested at the scene.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/15/conservative-mp-david-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-surgery-church1/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Shocking, yes, though sadly not that surprising. Fingers crossed he pulls through.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    The worst part is it's not as shocking as it should be.

    Hope he makes a full recovery.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721
    NickPalmer said:

    Poor guy, I'm so sorry. Have often worked with him of animal welfare issues over the years.

    Having just googled him and ended up at Wikipedia it seems he has done many good things (I'd be shocked and horrified whatever his record).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    We can hope he pulls through. Stephen Timms was attacked with a knife, also at his surgery (the first attempt by Al Qaeda to assassinate someone in this country). Thankfully he did survive.

    We can hardly complain if MPs go to Zoom-only surgeries in future.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    Go on. Support what Rayner said then.

    I fucking dare you to even try.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    I am deeply disturbed by this.

    Keeping everything crossed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Not pronounced dead is pretty good news tbh.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2021
    He’s died

    Source;

    https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Casino_Royale said:

    I am deeply disturbed by this.

    Keeping everything crossed.

    I am extremely upset about this and just pray he comes through
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    ping said:

    He’s died

    Source
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    MarqueeMark said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    Go on. Support what Rayner said then.

    I fucking dare you to even try.
    I think you've replied to the wrong post. @gealbhan agrees with you.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    edited October 2021
    ping said:

    He’s died

    Source;

    https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/

    Reported by BBC and Reuters as well.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Very sad news.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Ok fuck....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Well that's incredibly sad. :(
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Statement from Essex Police now on the BBC. Very, very sad news.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    dixiedean said:

    Not pronounced dead is pretty good news tbh.

    That was the opposite of a serendipitous post!!
    RIP.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    MarqueeMark said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    Go on. Support what Rayner said then.

    I fucking dare you to even try.
    I think Gealbhan was agreeing with your point.

    I also agree with you. It will be interesting to see how the left - and particularly the Corbynistas - react to this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Terrible news.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Damn.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Terrible news, his poor family and friends.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Absolutely terrible. RIP. 😢
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Well that's incredibly sad. :(

    Words fail me

    I am very emotional about this

    Why is it always the best

    May the 'Good Lord' be with his family and friends
  • NorthstarNorthstar Posts: 140
    Really awful news.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Poor David Amess, RIP - Leigh on Sea rated the happiest place to live in Britain as well, just goes to show nowhere is safe
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    What absolutely terrible news.

    RIP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited October 2021
    ping said:

    He’s died

    Source;

    https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/

    Awful, awful news.

    He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.

    There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    I mentioned to Mike the other day I was planning on doing a thread on the seminal results of recent general elections and Sir David was going to feature in the 1992 slot.

    Up there with Enfield Southgate in 1997.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Very sad news.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.
    Careful now. You don't want to end up on Toby Young's list.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Utterly ghastly. Counter terror police involved?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    He’s died

    Source;

    https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/

    Awful, awful news.

    He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.

    There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back
    Yes, a police officer at constituency surgeries at least. It would still allow access to the MP, but give them some peace of mind that they have some protection.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    MaxPB said:

    What a horrible bit of news. Throw the book at the killer. Life no parole.

    I really do believe any assault against any MP should be classed as if it was a police officer and the sentence must reflect this
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I mentioned to Mike the other day I was planning on doing a thread on the seminal results of recent general elections and Sir David was going to feature in the 1992 slot.

    Up there with Enfield Southgate in 1997.

    I remember it well - how young and full of life he was on that night. So sad.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    Oh God.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    If it IS a terror attack, I can't see anything in his CV that would provoke the usual suspects - Islamists, far Right, renegade Irish. Not even animal rights - he was pro-foxhunting ban and spent much of his career on animal welfare issues

    An odd target. So sad and so pointless. Ugh
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    If it IS a terror attack, I can't see anything in his CV that would provoke the usual suspects - Islamists, far Right, renegade Irish. Not even animal rights - he was pro-foxhunting ban and spent much of his career on animal welfare issues

    An odd target. So sad and so pointless. Ugh

    He was an MP, a symbol of British democracy. That's enough for some. Although it could simply be a crazed nutter.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sky News report - arrested man age 25:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1449014997523259393?s=20
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    He’s died

    Source;

    https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19650497.live-southend-west-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed/

    Awful, awful news.

    He was such a great parliamentarian and nice guy, RIP and of course he won Basildon in 1992 against the odds.

    There has to be a full review of MPs security including at constituency surgeries after this, we cannot have any more cases like this one and Jo Cox and of course Stephen Timms was badly injured in a surgery attack too and LD MP Nigel Jones was attacked a few years back
    Yes, a police officer at constituency surgeries at least. It would still allow access to the MP, but give them some peace of mind that they have some protection.
    On the other hand, you'll have push back against that. Think ethnic minority/immigration cases etc...

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721
    MaxPB said:

    What a horrible bit of news. Throw the book at the killer. Life no parole.

    Yep, I tend to agree with that (although noting both that it's - thankfully - not in my hands and that I don't know the full facts, although it's very hard to see any possible mitigation). Similar logic to the Everard case, I think. It strikes at the foundations of our country to kill an MP.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Doing his job. Serving his community.

    Truly shocking.

    Two MPs murdered. Another could have been. No more. Please, no more.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?

    Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?

    Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner
    Also those which directly confront politicians at their house/conference etc. Not on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Jesus, that's awful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Yup.

    https://twitter.com/DeclanBlench/status/1449015505503850499?s=20
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    Very well put David. This is very sad news and it should just be left there for the moment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Terrible. Utterly reprehensible.

    Can't see the traditional MP surgery surviving this second outrage to be honest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Mexicanpete said:

    The "it's Rayner's doing" proclamations by some on here are in as poor taste as Rayner's original uttering.

    Is anyone saying that? If so, that's ridiculous, it's not her fault

    However the quickest way to get people to kill other people is to dehumanise the target, Cf our discussion of Unit 731 the other day - the Chinese were dehumanised as inferior in the eyes of the Japanese, making it easier to kill them without guilt

    Casually calling all Tory MPs "scum" is definitely dehumanising. No MP should use that language of other people, unless they are talking about actual Nazis, ISIS, etc
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
    I think what Rayner said was indefensible. Before this. After this.

    A link is more questionable:
    - If someone killed him for being a Conservative, or even Brexit views then that kind of language draws a link, I think.
    - If it turns out that it was terrorism in the sense of 'kill an MP, any MP' then any such link is much harder to make.
    - If it turns out to be over some more personal matter (e.g. disgruntled over handling/not pursuing some issue) then also hard to make the link.

    I think we should all accept that, right now, we don't know. I'll condemn Rayner, but I won't link her comments to this - at least, not yet.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:



    Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner

    Indeed.

    We don't know what's gone on but if one good thing comes out if this appalling event it will be for people to stop looking at each other a "scum" and "traitors" rather than human beings with different points of view.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Tweet from the Telegraph blog. He had previously wrote about how Cox's murder was limiting the public's access to MPs.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1449015862699175941
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    eek said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    The Guardian says this


    "The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.

    "Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery

    The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too

    But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Dear God no. This is appalling. What a world and what a country we live in. RIP.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
    No, so get off the outrage bus.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Selebian said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
    I think what Rayner said was indefensible. Before this. After this.

    A link is more questionable:
    - If someone killed him for being a Conservative, or even Brexit views then that kind of language draws a link, I think.
    - If it turns out that it was terrorism in the sense of 'kill an MP, any MP' then any such link is much harder to make.
    - If it turns out to be over some more personal matter (e.g. disgruntled over handling/not pursuing some issue) then also hard to make the link.

    I think we should all accept that, right now, we don't know. I'll condemn Rayner, but I won't link her comments to this - at least, not yet.
    You are trying to convince me, the language of division and hate from party leaders does not encourage division, hate and violence from followers?

    Goodbye.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    The Guardian says this


    "The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.

    "Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery

    The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too

    But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
    That could be standard procedure. Whoever did this will have their life torn apart to understand why and their motivations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Some depressing context from ITN's political editor.
    One MP says they were sitting with colleagues recently and so many of them had examples of people actually in prison because of serious death threats against them - they says police tell them to not go public but describes it an “epidemic”
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1449009694303981577
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,911
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    The Guardian says this


    "The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.

    "Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery

    The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too

    But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
    He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    You are wrong.

    People in other political parties are not scum. They are democratic politicians who democratically argue for a policy position they believe in, with families who love them, and the voters trust them because they keep winning - and don’t trust Rayner and her nasty Labour colleagues, and on days like this you can understand why the electorate keep getting it right.

    Your rival democratic colleagues are not scum.
    Bit premature on the motivation of the stabber.
    So you too effectively support Rayners divisive Trumpesque language, and are telling us there is absolutely no correlation between divisive language of hate and any violent actions?

    Really?
    Rayner is vile. She was using rhetoric designed to play to her base, her supporters. Doubled down on her stupidity. Yet she was effusive with praise and posted highly dignified comments when James Brokenshire died. Awful person, she is.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Very saddened to hear of the death of Sir David Amess.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    david_herdson said:

    tlg86 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Jo Cox’ murderer got a whole life term - no possibility of parole.

    This should be the same outcome irrespective of the motive.
    That will depend on motivation, mental state and so on. Let's not get too far ahead of events and knowledge.

    But I agree with those who say that an attack on an elected individual performing their duties should be considered an exacerbating factor in the same way that an attack on, say, a police officer would be.
    Mental = life in a high-security hospital. Remember, the judge presiding over Jo Cox's murderer was very insistent that mental health had nothing to do with it.

    Motivation. Well, short of it being revenge for something in Amess's personal life, there is no mitigating factor.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    I know this doesn't help now but just to remember times haven't necessarily got worse. Just remember Airey Neave (sp?) and Ian Gow. It does seem to show however that being an MP does seem to increase your risk of being attacked sadly.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,911
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wiki is "was" already. Always taken aback by the speed of that. I was confirming my recollection that David Amess = the Tory MP whose beaming face and result in 92 first told us that Major had unexpectedly won. So, no place in my heart, but what a truly terrible thing to happen.

    Wow, stunning lack of grace there.
    In what way? I wasn't conscious of writing anything bad

    Mentioning the main thing I recall him for, you mean? The 92 election?
    "no place in my heart" sounds COLD
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?

    Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?

    Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner
    Considering some of the things that you have said in your cups, then perhaps pluck the beam from your own eye.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    OMG, it's just like Jo Cox all over again.

    RIP
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    The Guardian says this


    "The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.

    "Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery

    The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too

    But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
    He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.
    Yes that would certainly be enough. But, as someone else says below, just being an MP is enough

    For context, however, it is still very rare for a British MP to get murdered, if this list is authoritative

    There was a spate in the 70s-80s - Irish terrorism - before that just 3 in 180 years. And now 2 in the last 5 years

    Horrible - but still exceptional

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_British_MPs_who_were_assassinated
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited October 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Some depressing context from ITN's political editor.
    One MP says they were sitting with colleagues recently and so many of them had examples of people actually in prison because of serious death threats against them - they says police tell them to not go public but describes it an “epidemic”
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1449009694303981577

    Particularly common for female MPs. A good number from different parties stood down last GE and cited abuse and threats as a factor.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2021
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Awful awful news. What the fuck is wrong with our politics that MPs are seen as viable targets for people who dislike them?

    We don't have enough details yet to be sure what the reason was. Let's wait and see who is charged.
    The Guardian says this


    "The Guardian understands that counter-terrorism police are assisting the investigation into the stabbing, which continues to be led by Essex police.

    "Senior counter-terrorism officials are monitoring the situation closely and are being updated on emerging details of the attack and the suspect. Counter-terrorism police usually will stay involved in such an investigation until a non-terrorist motive is identified."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/mp-david-amess-dies-after-being-stabbed-at-constituency-surgery

    The cops are usually quite coy about revealing a terror investigation, so this is telling. Suggests that it IS terror. A couple of days after the Norway thing, too

    But we shall see. As I said below, Amess' career does not - did not - make him an obvious target, for anyone
    He was former Hon. Secretary of Conservative Friends of Israel. That upsets some folk.
    Being an MP, you inevitably take positions that will cause anger and upset. You can’t, and indeed, shouldn’t try to please everyone all the time. Being an MP means making enemies. The fear of violence should never impact your policy positions.

    The deal is, as a member of the public, if you’re not happy with your mp, you try to vote them out by convincing your fellow constituents that someone else, or even yourself, would be better.

    There’s never any justification for stabby stabby. The problem is entirely with this violent nutjob. His grievance is irrelevant.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    gealbhan said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Sir David Amess MP stabbed multiple times at his surgery - Sky

    Hope he makes a full recovery.

    So Angela, is it OK to stab scum?
    O-to scoring political point 5.7 secs. Not bad.
    I wouldn't expect you to see a difference between point scoring and making.

    If you label an entire political party as scum, you have to take some responsibility when some people see them as detached from upholding the right to express a contrary opinion to their own.

    Angela Rayner's comment corroded democracy. Even more disgraceful when it was a cynical ploy for her personal ambition - to get above Starmer on the news cycle at the start of Conference.

    If a Tory had called Labour "scum" a week before Jo Cox was murdered, do you think there would have been a restrained silence to link the two?
    Exactly. Perfectly put. Jo Cox labelled scum two weeks before dying in her own blood in writhing pain like Sir David. That’s why what she done was so wrong, so dumb, so unparliamentary and not fit for her position. For personal ambition she stoked it up Trump style. And this is the horrific result of her mendacious stupidity.
    This is just crap. The chances of there being any causal link direct or indirect between Raynor's comments and this awful event are pretty much zero and you certainly have no evidence of such a link.

    There is an argument that politicians should be more temperate in their utterings. Now is really not the time.
    The whole of our political infrastructure deserves far more protection than it gets. That is physical protection, but also protection by the law from those who spew hate towards others in legitimate political parties. Anybody who labels as "scum" an entire political party, its MPs, its membership, its voters that has made the case to the electorate and received backing with an 80 seat majority - that person is stupidly reinforcing that it is right to say whatever to whoever.

    I'm not saying Rayner is responsible for the attack on Sir David Amess. I'm saying she is partly responsible for poisoning the well in which the democratic process tries to operate. Much as her apologists might aggressively try to deny that.
    Would that include all the Brexiteers that call people traitors and quislings? Or the Daily Mail headline writers that describe judges as "enemies of the people"?

    Or the Remainers that go on about Brexshitters who should "all die off", or the XR twats shouting "Kill the Bill"?

    Quite frankly, we could all dial down the rhetoric. And that definitely includes Angela Rayner
    Considering some of the things that you have said in your cups, then perhaps pluck the beam from your own eye.
    That's why I said WE. I specifically included ME

    Believe it or not I have wilfully tempered my rhetoric, for this reason, and I started some time ago
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Worst response I've seen so far -

    @Femi_Sorry
    Before Boris Johnson does his tweet about the disgusting attack on Tory MP David Amess... saying how he's outraged about how violence has infected our politics.

    Please remember that he was happy to use death threats as a tool to try to get Jo Cox's successor to support Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1449011522819313665

    What a twat.
    JFC what an unbelievably crass thing to say
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