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The attack on Amess is quite shocking – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited October 2021
    @yairlapid
    From Israel, we send our deepest condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Sir David Amess. He always stood with the Jewish community and was a true friend of Israel.

    May his memory be for a blessing.

    https://twitter.com/yairlapid/status/1449030644336562177?s=20
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    kle4 said:

    On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language.
    A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.

    About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.

    Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.

    But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...

    "We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-58927034

    600% markups are not that uncommon in the jewelry industry.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    More testing finding cases.

    Is there any sign that excess deaths are actually higher?
    To check I understand you: we are doing more tests so are seeing more cases...

    According to Statista you're right, but not right enough. We're doing twice as many tests per million as France but seeing 10 times as many cases.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited October 2021
    The only time twitter intrudes on.my life is when tweets are posted here or I check how my rugby club is getting on. Otherwise its irrelevant to me.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    What is twitter's response to death threats?

    Surely it is easy enough for them to suspend accounts although presumably they can just get a new identity.
  • Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    More testing finding cases.

    Is there any sign that excess deaths are actually higher?
    To check I understand you: we are doing more tests so are seeing more cases...

    According to Statista you're right, but not right enough. We're doing twice as many tests per million as France but seeing 10 times as many cases.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/
    That can't be determined for certain. Aren't an extremely large proportion of our cases coming from kids who don't have symptoms but are getting tested?

    If they weren't getting tested that could wipe out a large portion of our "cases" and we'd be little the wiser.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
    I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.

    Very sad news today. Really affected me.
    I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
    So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
    Because

    1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended.
    2) suitable workforce already exist
    3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.

    4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
    I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....

    And it depends how the one goes offline!
    Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
    £23bn.

    There has never been a nuclear plant built without massive public and customer subsidies.

    However small they make them.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    On the lighter side of things, another great day for the legal system - the final bit I've included is a classic bit of euphemistic language.
    A £3m diamond fraud trial involving The Only Way is Essex star Lewis Bloor has collapsed after the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) admitted it failed to disclose some evidence.

    About 200 people were conned into buying coloured diamonds at a 600% mark-up, prosecutors claimed.

    Mr Bloor, 31, was accused of playing a "key role" in one company involved.

    But he and five others were acquitted after the CPS did not disclose evidence which could have helped the defendants...

    "We have come to the conclusion that we cannot confirm to the court that the prosecution has discharged its disclosure duties in this case," he said.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-58927034

    600% markups are not that uncommon in the jewelry industry.
    The case was about cold callers claiming the stones were worth more than they were. That’s where the crime comes in.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656
    On topic RIP David Amess.

    Thoughts with his family
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited October 2021
    RobD said:

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    We constantly hear this, yet the UK is quite middling on the excess death tracker. It suggests differences in reporting more than anything.
    Good point. I seem to remember there was a site which showed comparative excess death rates across developed countries - does anyone have a link?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926


    RobD said:

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    We constantly hear this, yet the UK is quite middling on the excess death tracker. It suggests differences in reporting more than anything.
    Good point. I seem to remember there was a site which showed comparative excess death rates across developed countries - does anyone have a link?
    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    tlg86 said:

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    The options, I think, are:

    1) We’re interacting much more than they are. If so, then presumably we should get through it quicker than them.

    2) Their current numbers are wrong.

    3) Far more of them had already come into contact with COVID before the re-opening. In which case, their total death numbers are probably too low.
    Your option 2 is a bit blunt. Everyone's covid deaths figures are wrong to a certain extent. The useful measure is age adjusted excess mortality, and we're not exceptional (either up or down) on that measure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited October 2021

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    RobD said:


    RobD said:

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    We constantly hear this, yet the UK is quite middling on the excess death tracker. It suggests differences in reporting more than anything.
    Good point. I seem to remember there was a site which showed comparative excess death rates across developed countries - does anyone have a link?
    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker
    Cheers
  • HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
    I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.

    Very sad news today. Really affected me.
    I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
    So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
    Because

    1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended.
    2) suitable workforce already exist
    3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.

    4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
    I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....

    And it depends how the one goes offline!
    Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
    £23bn.

    There has never been a nuclear plant built without massive public and customer subsidies.

    However small they make them.
    Though that was the case for wind farms, until it wasn't.

    There's far more chance of 10+ mini nukes eventually leading to affordable nukes without subsidies than a single white elephant on its own.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364
    Barnesian said:

    I've just emailed all my deliverers to suspend all deliveries of our political leaflets this weekend as a mark of respect and in solidarity across all political parties. It's hard to know what more to do personally.

    Well, there isn’t much you *can* do, but that’s a decent gesture on your part. (Not that I would have expected anything else.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    GB News - suspect is understood to be a 25-year old Somalian national.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    edited October 2021

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Show me an MP that wants a "mini-nuke" in their constituency. If ever an issue was tailor-made for the LibDem nimbys....
    I’d have one next door if it meant cheap electricity with no carbon emissions.

    Very sad news today. Really affected me.
    I really can't see the issue - this is baseline energy that we need to have. Logical places are where-ever existing nuclear power stations are provided they have enough connectivity.
    So why build 10 mini-nukes on the site of an existing nuke???
    Because

    1) the sites already exist and have appropriate security that only needs to be extended.
    2) suitable workforce already exist
    3) a lot of the sites are time served and due to be decommissioned over the next x years.

    4) mini-nukes as I believe MaxPB mentioned before a great because when you need to service one you only lose 470MW of power rather than GWs...
    I bet that 10 prove to be more than the cost of one.....

    And it depends how the one goes offline!
    Hinkley C is currently over budget at £22bn so I suspect 10 will be cheaper than 1.
    £23bn.

    There has never been a nuclear plant built without massive public and customer subsidies.

    However small they make them.
    While that's true, the small modular idea is at least rather more sensible. Because:

    (a) you can iterate the design, getting cheaper (and better) with every version

    and

    (b) you don't have the issue that HPC has that when it goes down for maintenance (often unscheduled), you lose 15% of the UK's generating capacity.

    I would hope that RR is taking the financial risk here, because its shareholders will be the principle beneficiaries. Nevertheless, if the RR design works (and works cost efficiently), then it will be a big step towards introducing more resilience in UK energy supply.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    You should keep your thoughts to yourself

    You are not helping

    Wait for the police to comment
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited October 2021

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    More testing finding cases.

    Is there any sign that excess deaths are actually higher?
    To check I understand you: we are doing more tests so are seeing more cases...

    According to Statista you're right, but not right enough. We're doing twice as many tests per million as France but seeing 10 times as many cases.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/
    That can't be determined for certain. Aren't an extremely large proportion of our cases coming from kids who don't have symptoms but are getting tested?

    If they weren't getting tested that could wipe out a large portion of our "cases" and we'd be little the wiser.
    Yes, thanks. I do think your points have validity. Also, the excess deaths info that @RodD linked to is important.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    I've just emailed all my deliverers to suspend all deliveries of our political leaflets this weekend as a mark of respect and in solidarity across all political parties. It's hard to know what more to do personally.

    Well, there isn’t much you *can* do, but that’s a decent gesture on your part. (Not that I would have expected anything else.)
    Yes, we have national instructions from Labour to suspend all activity.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    GB News - suspect is understood to be a 25-year old Somalian national.

    Oh dear. If true the extreme left and right will be in some appalling pissing contest over this and the death of a public servant will be totally overlooked.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    You should keep your thoughts to yourself

    You are not helping

    Wait for the police to comment
    I think you will find that Lestrade of the Yard often has a word in hyufd's shell-like when the trail goes cold...
  • Just back from my drive home, and how I wish my R4 & 5 listening could have again been filled with inane chat about Adele's new song..

    The tributes that I listened to instead for Sir David Amess were heart breaking in their seemingly absolute sincerity. I can't remember everyone I heard speak so fondly about him, but every single one did. The local leaders of the RC & CoE churches were on at the same time, and both deeply saddened by the loss of someone they knew they could rely on to seriously and compassionately engage with them.

    Yvette Cooper was on, and rightly refusing to be dragged into the presenter's annoying questions about MP safety policy, insisting that she get the chance to express her sadness and let everybody know what a decent man we've lost.

    The most moving for me, though, was a recording of Tim Montgomerie talking about him. Apparently Tim has been having mental health issues and Sir David called him up to check on him a couple of weeks ago to see how he was doing. Tim said "Yeah fine", Amess wouldn't let it drop and continued to gently probe on it (while making lots of silly jokes to try to keep the mood light and spirits up), and Tim admitted he had been in a really dark place but was feeling better. David then insisted that Tim call him if he gets in that dark place again. Tim agrees David makes him promise. Montgomerie sounded in tears when he said, "I did, but now I won't be able to"

    Why is it the best of us who pay the price of hate

    This is very emotional and upsetting and our prayers must be with his family and friends
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Appalling news
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Taz said:

    GB News - suspect is understood to be a 25-year old Somalian national.

    Oh dear. If true the extreme left and right will be in some appalling pissing contest over this and the death of a public servant will be totally overlooked.
    It is appropriate and legitimate to debate how this particular murder happened, and for any policy responses about it, but the time for that debate is not today.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    You should keep your thoughts to yourself

    You are not helping

    Wait for the police to comment
    How many posts before Monsieur Defarge takes a break?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited October 2021
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    I loathe people who post +1, but +1.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Couldn’t we just start a petition on parliament’s website? If there isn’t one already?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited October 2021

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Have just text my MP who is a personal friend to this effect and he was very close to Sir David
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Off topic: moaning about awful media for a diversion.

    Just listening to a bit of France 24 on COP26, with the expert commentator being a chap from Daily Beast called Nico Hines.

    'In the last week or two, the UK has even switched out coal fired power stations back on, which means that when COP26 is happening, all the TV and lights and everything else will be powered by coal.'

    Silly twit somehow forgot to mention - or doesn't know - that in 2020 coal delivered .. er .. 1.2% of our electricity.
  • Sunak really is the heir to Gordon Brown.

    Nerd alert:

    Sunak has told his independent* fiscal watchdog to use out of date data for the Budget forecast

    It’ll guarantee a big upgrade in level of UK output in next year’s Budget, just in time for the election

    *doesn’t feel so independent today


    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1449070457806856204
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    I loathe people who post +1, but +1.
    +1
    (Sorry, couldn’t stop meeself)
  • Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    You should keep your thoughts to yourself

    You are not helping

    Wait for the police to comment
    How many posts before Monsieur Defarge takes a break?
    Maybe you should take a break
  • IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    I loathe people who post +1, but +1.
    +1
    (Sorry, couldn’t stop meeself)
    +1
    😉
  • HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2021
    MattW said:

    Off topic: moaning about awful media for a diversion.

    Just listening to a bit of France 24 on COP26, with the expert commentator being a chap from Daily Beast called Nico Hines.

    'In the last week or two, the UK has even switched out coal fired power stations back on, which means that when COP26 is happening, all the TV and lights and everything else will be powered by coal.'

    Silly twit somehow forgot to mention - or doesn't know - that in 2020 coal delivered .. er .. 1.2% of our electricity.

    That’s the guy who went to the Rio olympics, logged on to Grindr and outed a load of athletes. He’s a seriously scummy “journalist”

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/03/nico-hines-of-the-daily-beast-olympics-grindr-story-is-back.amp
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,364

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    Agreed. Also agree when you say we should wait for the facts. Speculation may, as CS Forester said, be a fascinating thing but it is both unprofitable and tasteless in these circumstances.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited October 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    Can you imagine if HYUFD was a barrister and that was the case for the prosecution.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    I loathe people who post +1, but +1.
    +1
    (Sorry, couldn’t stop meeself)
    +1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited October 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indisputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

    99% of Tory voters will agree we must tighten our immigration system to ensure terrorists do not get through if that does turn out to be the case. Nothing is 100% certain yet of course but all the signs point to a jihadi extremist terrorist, hence the counter terrorism unit has taken over the murder investigation
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indistiputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you
    Now is neither the time or the place and I would expect central office would agree
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Can anyone with a WSJ subscription read this article and tell me if it is as unbelievable as the headline suggests?

    https://twitter.com/EpsilonTheory/status/1449030584538484737?t=9RB0Yh5154TG6lex2uM0QQ&s=19
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Aslan said:

    Taz said:

    GB News - suspect is understood to be a 25-year old Somalian national.

    Oh dear. If true the extreme left and right will be in some appalling pissing contest over this and the death of a public servant will be totally overlooked.
    It is appropriate and legitimate to debate how this particular murder happened, and for any policy responses about it, but the time for that debate is not today.
    I’m not saying debate is inappropriate. I just think debate will go one way, sadly.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Well, if my Doctors tell me to give up my evening Martini at 95, I'll consider myself ahead...

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1448973883978227739?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indisputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

    99% of Tory voters will agree we must tighten our immigration system to ensure terrorists do not get through if that does turn out to be the case. Nothing is 100% certain yes of course but all the signs point to a jihadi extremist
    To be pedantic I think at this stage the line in newspapers is "believed to be Somali".

    So let's wait as @Big_G_NorthWales wisely says.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    Just back from my drive home, and how I wish my R4 & 5 listening could have again been filled with inane chat about Adele's new song..

    The tributes that I listened to instead for Sir David Amess were heart breaking in their seemingly absolute sincerity. I can't remember everyone I heard speak so fondly about him, but every single one did. The local leaders of the RC & CoE churches were on at the same time, and both deeply saddened by the loss of someone they knew they could rely on to seriously and compassionately engage with them.

    Yvette Cooper was on, and rightly refusing to be dragged into the presenter's annoying questions about MP safety policy, insisting that she get the chance to express her sadness and let everybody know what a decent man we've lost.

    The most moving for me, though, was a recording of Tim Montgomerie talking about him. Apparently Tim has been having mental health issues and Sir David called him up to check on him a couple of weeks ago to see how he was doing. Tim said "Yeah fine", Amess wouldn't let it drop and continued to gently probe on it (while making lots of silly jokes to try to keep the mood light and spirits up), and Tim admitted he had been in a really dark place but was feeling better. David then insisted that Tim call him if he gets in that dark place again. Tim agrees David makes him promise. Montgomerie sounded in tears when he said, "I did, but now I won't be able to"

    Indeed. Been listening to tales of his works for animal rights and work with children with learning difficulties. And of his popularity across the aisle and personal kindness.
    Like Jo Cox, it might be useful to hear such stuff before their deaths.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indisputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

    99% of Tory voters will agree we must tighten our immigration system to ensure terrorists do not get through if that does turn out to be the case. Nothing is 100% certain yet of course but all the signs point to a jihadi extremist terrorist, hence the counter terrorism unit has taken over the murder investigation
    When you are in a hole stop digging
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    Or it could be that he was disgruntled over an asylum application not getting support, or about any of a hundred other issues.

    He is in custody and we will find out soon enough.
  • MattW said:

    On Southend as a City, just sent to my MP:

    --------------------------
    Lee

    Please would you offer my condolences as part of any tribute you are
    able to offer to David Amess MP.

    I'm thinking about everyone's safety, including your own.

    May I suggest that an appropriate tribute would be for Southend to be
    granted City status, as I understand that that was a cause very close
    to David's heart?

    All the best
    ---------------------------

    I'm not really up for making this a petition, but I think it is an excellent thought.

    I've just sent a very similar missive to my MP.

    Is there something we can get going on twitter?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    The killing of this MP is awful, but aren't there certain objective criteria that should be applied before places are designated as cities?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The Queen is being lobbied to give Southend City status in Sir David’s memory

    https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/david-amess-murdered-queen-urged-21874532
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    We got Royal Wooton Basset from a suggestion made on here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393

    Well, if my Doctors tell me to give up my evening Martini at 95, I'll consider myself ahead...

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1448973883978227739?s=20

    At 95 she can do what she damn well likes...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    I've been asked to do a tribute for David on LBC tomorrow morning (probably 850) and a Mail article to appear next week - will be an opportunity to stress the importance of respect for people who work to serve the community, regardless of whether we agree with them on one or another issue.

    I'm sure you'll do Sir David proud
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    darkage said:

    The killing of this MP is awful, but aren't there certain objective criteria that should be applied before places are designated as cities?

    Various people come up with objective criteria - size, university, cathedral, etc - but in England it's simply a matter of receiving a royal city charter.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    MattW said:

    On Southend as a City, just sent to my MP:

    --------------------------
    Lee

    Please would you offer my condolences as part of any tribute you are
    able to offer to David Amess MP.

    I'm thinking about everyone's safety, including your own.

    May I suggest that an appropriate tribute would be for Southend to be
    granted City status, as I understand that that was a cause very close
    to David's heart?

    All the best
    ---------------------------

    I'm not really up for making this a petition, but I think it is an excellent thought.

    That's nice and would be a fitting tribute for Sir David.

    I'll email something similar to my MP this weekend.
  • This is not the time to be speculating on whatever monstrous reason whoever the killer is had for what he did.

    This is not the time for political or racial pointscoring.

    RIP Sir David. Let the Police do their job.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Alistair said:

    Can anyone with a WSJ subscription read this article and tell me if it is as unbelievable as the headline suggests?

    https://twitter.com/EpsilonTheory/status/1449030584538484737?t=9RB0Yh5154TG6lex2uM0QQ&s=19

    The restaurant has got absolutely panned in all the media I've seen but that doesn't seem to stop people queuing up to try the food.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited October 2021
    Taz said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
    1 - It already has an application in for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee collection of cities.
    2 - And it has the longest pier in the UK.
    3 - With a railway on it.

    :smile:
  • isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    We got Royal Wooton Basset from a suggestion made on here.
    Really? I drove through there now and then, when I go to see my sister and nephew in Malmesbury.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Well, if my Doctors tell me to give up my evening Martini at 95, I'll consider myself ahead...

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1448973883978227739?s=20

    I mean at 95 (around 15 years beyond average female life expectancy) and seemingly amazingly sprightly, I'd tell her to carry on doing what she's been doing and enjoy herself.

    Surprised it's a martini and not GIN for HMQ though... ;)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    dixiedean said:

    Just back from my drive home, and how I wish my R4 & 5 listening could have again been filled with inane chat about Adele's new song..

    The tributes that I listened to instead for Sir David Amess were heart breaking in their seemingly absolute sincerity. I can't remember everyone I heard speak so fondly about him, but every single one did. The local leaders of the RC & CoE churches were on at the same time, and both deeply saddened by the loss of someone they knew they could rely on to seriously and compassionately engage with them.

    Yvette Cooper was on, and rightly refusing to be dragged into the presenter's annoying questions about MP safety policy, insisting that she get the chance to express her sadness and let everybody know what a decent man we've lost.

    The most moving for me, though, was a recording of Tim Montgomerie talking about him. Apparently Tim has been having mental health issues and Sir David called him up to check on him a couple of weeks ago to see how he was doing. Tim said "Yeah fine", Amess wouldn't let it drop and continued to gently probe on it (while making lots of silly jokes to try to keep the mood light and spirits up), and Tim admitted he had been in a really dark place but was feeling better. David then insisted that Tim call him if he gets in that dark place again. Tim agrees David makes him promise. Montgomerie sounded in tears when he said, "I did, but now I won't be able to"

    Indeed. Been listening to tales of his works for animal rights and work with children with learning difficulties. And of his popularity across the aisle and personal kindness.
    Like Jo Cox, it might be useful to hear such stuff before their deaths.
    I think all I knew of David Amess before today was that he was a backbench Eurosceptic Tory MP.

    Perhaps the Good News TV programme could have a segment where opposing politicians praise each other?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    100% agreed now is not the time for looking at causes and learning lessons. But I hope there will be a time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indisputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

    99% of Tory voters will agree we must tighten our immigration system to ensure terrorists do not get through if that does turn out to be the case. Nothing is 100% certain yet of course but all the signs point to a jihadi extremist terrorist, hence the counter terrorism unit has taken over the murder investigation
    When you are in a hole stop digging
    'The Independent understands that the suspect is of Somali origin, and the murder is being treated at this point as a probable Islamist terror attack.'
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/david-amess-mp-stabbed-latest-b1939079.html
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    GIN1138 said:

    Well, if my Doctors tell me to give up my evening Martini at 95, I'll consider myself ahead...

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1448973883978227739?s=20

    I mean at 95 (around 15 years beyond average female life expectancy) and seemingly amazingly sprightly, I'd tell her to carry on doing what she's been doing and enjoy herself.

    Surprised it's a martini and not GIN for HMQ though... ;)
    Dry martinis are mostly gin...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Would another lasting tribute to Sir David (apart from Southend City) be a “#metoo” type outpouring from MPs where they actively get on their Twitter and say “hey, whilst we think differently about this country I’m actually friends with x, y, z from another party - difference doesn’t mean hate”….. maybe call it #acrosstheaisle

    Show the loons that you can disagree without hatred….. and anyone who kicked off at them would be on the wrong side of the argument.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    RobD said:

    Off topic: Anyone got any ideas why the UK is persistently seeing a rate of covid deaths per million nearly triple those seen in France, Germany and Italy?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

    We constantly hear this, yet the UK is quite middling on the excess death tracker. It suggests differences in reporting more than anything.
    I searched Our World in Data for this information. According to the comparison of current excess mortality versus the average for the five years pre-Covid, and looking at the most recent comparable weekly figures published (for September 26th,) England & Wales had excess mortality of 15% above the long-term trend, whereas the comparable figure for Germany was 10%. Now, these numbers to fluctuate a fair bit - earlier in the Spring and Summer we were often doing rather better than other large European states on this metric; at the moment we're doing a bit worse - but, in any even, it's not exactly a yawning chasm.

    You also have to wonder what will happen when the heavier restrictions in place in various continental countries, particularly enforcing masks all over the place, are lifted - assuming that this ever happens. To the extent that they are outperforming the UK, will this simply be undone as soon as they let go of public health impositions? I would imagine that most or all of Western Europe has now hit the wall of vaccine refusal, most of the remaining refusers are going to dig their heels in, and the disease ain't going to go away. So, to what extent are face gags actually saving anyone outright, like one can plausibly argue they might've been doing before or during the bulk vaccination programmes, and to what extent are they now merely delaying the inevitable?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited October 2021

    MattW said:

    On Southend as a City, just sent to my MP:

    --------------------------
    Lee

    Please would you offer my condolences as part of any tribute you are
    able to offer to David Amess MP.

    I'm thinking about everyone's safety, including your own.

    May I suggest that an appropriate tribute would be for Southend to be
    granted City status, as I understand that that was a cause very close
    to David's heart?

    All the best
    ---------------------------

    I'm not really up for making this a petition, but I think it is an excellent thought.

    I've just sent a very similar missive to my MP.

    Is there something we can get going on twitter?
    Personally I'm not inclined to that. I don't really want a heavy campaign. And I think the public suggestion would be best from within the communty of MPs (or XMPs).

    Perhaps @NickPalmer could gently raise it tomorrow?

    Other will have different views, of course.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
    1 - It already has an application in for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee collection of cities.
    2 - And it has the longest pier in the UK.
    3 - With a railway on it.

    :smile:
    On this general topic, I had a quick look and there don't appear to be any Parliamentary petitions mentioning Southend at the moment...

    And the pier is rather marvellous.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    RIP Sir David.

    As we all know, he represented Basildon between 1983 and 1997, and as some PBers know, the band Depeche Mode are the town's most famous sons.

    One of their biggest hits is "People are People", released in 1984, and it contains the lyric:

    So we're different colours and we're different creeds
    And different people have different needs
    It's obvious you hate me though I've done nothing wrong
    I've never even met you, so what could I have done

    Always been a fan of this song. Apparently the band don't sing it anymore because they think the lyrics are too simplistic, which is regrettable IMO.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Taz said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
    Because it fulfills a human need to try and do something when confronted with evil.

    At least this is a basically harmless idea; but it could have some perverse consequences for the process of designating cities in the future.
  • darkage said:

    The killing of this MP is awful, but aren't there certain objective criteria that should be applied before places are designated as cities?

    In such exceptional circumstances, being bigger than Wells should be enough.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited October 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC-NEWS Terrorism officers to lead Amess case.

    It does look like this has all the signs of a jihadi attack, to be fair to Rayner although her remarks were wrong she cannot be blamed for this appalling crime
    I am not sure we should be speculating at this stage

    Let the police do their job
    It is not much speculation to say that Somalia is 99% Muslim and a minority of those will be Jihadis unfortunately.

    It is just statement of the obvious
    Not helpful.

    Let’s get the facts first. Not idle speculation
    These are all facts. A man has been arrested from Somalia, a country which is 99% Muslim and which has a significant Jihadi extremist presence. Sir David was also a well known ally of Israel, hence the Israeli Foreign Minister has also tweeted his condolences.

    Now obviously nothing can be confirmed yet but the facts all point one way
    That is a terrible post and I am not at all sure the party would be happy if they knew a representative was putting that out
    They are all facts and indisputable but if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

    99% of Tory voters will agree we must tighten our immigration system to ensure terrorists do not get through if that does turn out to be the case. Nothing is 100% certain yet of course but all the signs point to a jihadi extremist terrorist, hence the counter terrorism unit has taken over the murder investigation
    When you are in a hole stop digging
    'The Independent understands that the suspect is of Somali origin, and the murder is being treated at this point as a probable Islamist terror attack.'
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/david-amess-mp-stabbed-latest-b1939079.html
    You are an elected representative of the conservative party and as such you should not be involved in speculation on motives and leave that to the gossip columns

    I have heard from many politicians today and not one of them has said anything but praise for Sir David

    Maybe you should do the same as any elected representative of the party and keep away from speculation
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    I've been asked to do a tribute for David on LBC tomorrow morning (probably 850) and a Mail article to appear next week - will be an opportunity to stress the importance of respect for people who work to serve the community, regardless of whether we agree with them on one or another issue.

    At one time I think he was one of only about 5 Tory MPs to oppose fox hunting, (although the number is probably a lot higher now).
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Andy_JS said:

    RIP Sir David.

    As we all know, he represented Basildon between 1983 and 1997, and as some PBers know, the band Depeche Mode are the town's most famous sons.

    One of their biggest hits is "People are People", released in 1984, and it contains the lyric:

    So we're different colours and we're different creeds
    And different people have different needs
    It's obvious you hate me though I've done nothing wrong
    I've never even met you, so what could I have done

    Always been a fan of this song. Apparently the band don't sing it anymore because they think the lyrics are too simplistic, which is regrettable IMO.
    It is but they do have a great back catalogue.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Odds for HY to be selected as the Conservative candidate in the by election?
  • dixiedean said:

    Just back from my drive home, and how I wish my R4 & 5 listening could have again been filled with inane chat about Adele's new song..

    The tributes that I listened to instead for Sir David Amess were heart breaking in their seemingly absolute sincerity. I can't remember everyone I heard speak so fondly about him, but every single one did. The local leaders of the RC & CoE churches were on at the same time, and both deeply saddened by the loss of someone they knew they could rely on to seriously and compassionately engage with them.

    Yvette Cooper was on, and rightly refusing to be dragged into the presenter's annoying questions about MP safety policy, insisting that she get the chance to express her sadness and let everybody know what a decent man we've lost.

    The most moving for me, though, was a recording of Tim Montgomerie talking about him. Apparently Tim has been having mental health issues and Sir David called him up to check on him a couple of weeks ago to see how he was doing. Tim said "Yeah fine", Amess wouldn't let it drop and continued to gently probe on it (while making lots of silly jokes to try to keep the mood light and spirits up), and Tim admitted he had been in a really dark place but was feeling better. David then insisted that Tim call him if he gets in that dark place again. Tim agrees David makes him promise. Montgomerie sounded in tears when he said, "I did, but now I won't be able to"

    Indeed. Been listening to tales of his works for animal rights and work with children with learning difficulties. And of his popularity across the aisle and personal kindness.
    Like Jo Cox, it might be useful to hear such stuff before their deaths.
    I think all I knew of David Amess before today was that he was a backbench Eurosceptic Tory MP.

    Perhaps the Good News TV programme could have a segment where opposing politicians praise each other?
    We did that on PB one Christmas - we all had the challenge of saying something positive about someone who we totally disagreed with (and cheating by saying "I love his idiocy" and the like was not counted). Some surprising tributes came up and it was a pretty good Christmas experience.
    I remember that, it was really sweet some of the things people wrote.

    I can't remember who I wrote about.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
    1 - It already has an application in for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee collection of cities.
    2 - And it has the longest pier in the UK.
    3 - With a railway on it.

    :smile:
    Does it have a thriving craft beer scene ?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    boulay said:

    Would another lasting tribute to Sir David (apart from Southend City) be a “#metoo” type outpouring from MPs where they actively get on their Twitter and say “hey, whilst we think differently about this country I’m actually friends with x, y, z from another party - difference doesn’t mean hate”….. maybe call it #acrosstheaisle

    Show the loons that you can disagree without hatred….. and anyone who kicked off at them would be on the wrong side of the argument.

    This brings to mind the experience of Laura Pidcock, who memorably announced that she could never be friends with a tory; and then got voted out in favour of one!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited October 2021

    Odds for HY to be selected as the Conservative candidate in the by election?

    0. I am not on the CCHQ parliamentary candidates approved list and have no plans to apply for it any time soon
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited October 2021
    pigeon said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    I see Sir David was active on twitter. His pinned tweet? Advertising his constituency surgery.

    Southend to become a City would be a fitting tribute
    I think that is a superb idea.

    I'm going to contact my MP about it and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

    It would be pretty cool if we could get that to actually happen from @isam 's post on PB!
    Why ?

    If Southend didn’t merit being awarded city status prior to this awful event why should it get it on the back of this atrocity.
    1 - It already has an application in for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee collection of cities.
    2 - And it has the longest pier in the UK.
    3 - With a railway on it.

    :smile:
    On this general topic, I had a quick look and there don't appear to be any Parliamentary petitions mentioning Southend at the moment...

    And the pier is rather marvellous.
    Reflecting, I think the most appropriate way (which may not happen :smile: ) would be a cross-party EDM.

    Does @Tissue_Price read here still?

    Now, in the possible words of a previous HRH - Where's ma Bombay Sapphire?

    Evening all.
This discussion has been closed.