Can anyone explain the weird politics of mask-wearing? – politicalbetting.com

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

Can't he just buy Jenrick's dinner?

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

Probably but out of a million there must be a considerable number who will come back if the pay and bonuses are enhanced

It depends. If you do what PT says and double HGV drivers pay yes some will come back. But then each household will need to pay on average about £400 extra a year to fund that, which many do not have, even before cutting UC, fuel and tax increases. It is just shifting from one big problem to another big problem.

Or we can have immigration, which is where we started from and will also be the endpoint.

I am not sure of your maths but no way should we go back down the road of cheap foreign labour at the expense of British wages

Lots of ways to get there or thereabouts. Lets take the average as £30k and double to £60k (still too low vs an MP which seems to be PT's yardstick for some random reason).

300k existing drivers get an extra £30k = £12bn
Lets say we get 50k new drivers get an extra £60k = £3bn

£15bn to be found by Joe Public.

28m households in the UK

That would be £530 average per household.

Add electricity and UC cuts and there will be millions in debt very quickly.

The idea we can pay everyone MP salaries if it wasnt for immigrants is a very weird fantasy. We dont earn anything like enough to do that.

Extra tax and NI on 15 billion is a lot to the exchequer

Great, the retired will do well.

https://fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

So will their children and grandchildren who inherit it

Maybe we need a large tax on the inheritees (?) to help clear the deficit 👍

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

Like Carrie Symonds, perhaps ?

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

As many times as people say that sort of thing it never makes any more sense to me. You don't have to be an elected politician to propose or oppose political initiatives.

Doing so will make him a political figure in turn, and that will come with attention and reaction that he may not particularly like, but there's not a solitary reason he, or anyone else, should not 'get involved in politics' if they want to. Farooq makes the point most concisely.

Philip_Thompson said:

Each household will not need to pay £400 that a ridiculous claim.

Plus having increased their pay, they'll increase spending which will fuel other businesses and other

Plus of course if you double their pay then approximately half of that will end up in the Exchequer anyway.

So it we gave nurses 20% more, that'd be fine too, because they'd spend it and benefit jobs as well as pay more taxes? Why not 50% more, come to that?

You've discovered that far-left magic money tree of which we used to hear so much.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

He has a voice Charles. He is using it.

Fuck you.

Edit: treble fuck you.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

Sometimes you're hilarious. By your criteria, HYUFD would have PB to himself I think. Oh, and Nick Palmer. Any others elected on here?

And 'Fuck him' is not very gentlemanly, is it?

…

Philip_Thompson said:

Northern_Al said:

WhisperingOracle said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

How many are licensed to drive fuel tankers?

None, without further training unless their ADR training is still current.

The letters are an absolute smoke screen. Many on here have bought it though.

The various industry bodies seem to be saying the 5,000 visas are nowhere near enough, tonight.

If that's correct, both the government, and more importantly our national infrastructure, may be in some genuinely serious trouble.

Regardless of the merits of the scheme, will they get the 5,000 HGV drivers (and apparently 5,500 "poultry workers")?

If I were an HGV driver, or indeed a turkey plucker in, say, Bulgaria, would I really be tempted to come over to the UK, in winter, on a three month visa, with all the disruption that would entail? I don't think so, unless the money was stupendously tempting.

Stupendously tempting for a Bulgarian or Romanian, and stupendously tempting for a Brit, are too wildly different things.

Which is something dodgy businesses have been able to exploit for years. Now they're terrified that's come to an end.

Stuart Rose was right. Its time to pay a decent salary for a decent day's work.

The equivalent hourly rate for working in the Uk at minimum Wage in 2014

Bulgaria
£47.18
Romania
£43.30
Lithuania
£28.10
Latvia
£25.49
Czech
£24.50
Slovakia
£24.41
Hungary
£24.31
Estonia
£23.15
Poland
£21.28
Slovenia
£10.82

NickPalmer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Each household will not need to pay £400 that a ridiculous claim.

Plus having increased their pay, they'll increase spending which will fuel other businesses and other

Plus of course if you double their pay then approximately half of that will end up in the Exchequer anyway.

So it we gave nurses 20% more, that'd be fine too, because they'd spend it and benefit jobs as well as pay more taxes? Why not 50% more, come to that?

You've discovered that far-left magic money tree of which we used to hear so much.

If we give nurses 20% more then that has to come from the taxpayer.

If HGV drivers get more then that comes from whoever pays for goods to be shipped as part of the shipping costs. It doesn't come from taxpayers, or households, or however you want to artificially relate it back to people, except eventually perhaps in inflation.

Greene's new campaign add...

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1439225130811539457?s=19

Going for the @Dura_Ace vote, I suppose...

SandyRentool said:

Scott_xP said:

💥EXCL: Keir Starmer vows to end private schools’ charity status raising £1.7bn to help poorer kids in state system - top interview with our ⁦@MirrorGemma⁩ https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-vows-tax-private-25072816

Red meat. Good.

Red meat for mad, rabid, delusion dogs.

That will bite him seriously in the arse. It is as incoherent as Corbyns "fully costed Manifesto" 4 page memo that was debunked within about 24 hours in 2017. With added political costs.

1 - Independent schools provide hundreds of million of £££ of of support to local communities, local schools and pupils who would not otherwise make
it every year. That accounts for a large chunk of the alleged savings.
2 - Some marginal parents will not be able to afford it. Which drives them back into the state sector. At what cost? All the numbers I have seen make this a loss.
3 - The independent sector is not just - as Starmer seems to think - Eton. It is diverse. I have a relative who was removed from state to independent for several years because the state system could not provide protection from the bullies and appropriate teaching and support. Starmer is attacking this diversirt because of political dogma, penning those victims straight back into the orbit of their bullies and their abusers.

I suspect this is a policy based on imagined dogma and fantasy arithmetic, and that he is stirring up a political tidal wave that will cost him very dearly indeed.

A very, very stupid idea.

londonpubman said:

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

Probably but out of a million there must be a considerable number who will come back if the pay and bonuses are enhanced

It depends. If you do what PT says and double HGV drivers pay yes some will come back. But then each household will need to pay on average about £400 extra a year to fund that, which many do not have, even before cutting UC, fuel and tax increases. It is just shifting from one big problem to another big problem.

Or we can have immigration, which is where we started from and will also be the endpoint.

I am not sure of your maths but no way should we go back down the road of cheap foreign labour at the expense of British wages

Lots of ways to get there or thereabouts. Lets take the average as £30k and double to £60k (still too low vs an MP which seems to be PT's yardstick for some random reason).

300k existing drivers get an extra £30k = £12bn
Lets say we get 50k new drivers get an extra £60k = £3bn

£15bn to be found by Joe Public.

28m households in the UK

That would be £530 average per household.

Add electricity and UC cuts and there will be millions in debt very quickly.

The idea we can pay everyone MP salaries if it wasnt for immigrants is a very weird fantasy. We dont earn anything like enough to do that.

Extra tax and NI on 15 billion is a lot to the exchequer

Great, the retired will do well.

https://fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

So will their children and grandchildren who inherit it

Maybe we need a large tax on the inheritees (?) to help clear the deficit 👍

Theresa May tried just such a policy in 2017, it lost her her majority.

Osborne's 2007 IHT cut plan however saw the Tories get a surge in the polls such that Brown cancelled his planned election.

IHT is a very unpopular tax, anyway it is only paid by millionaires now for children of married couples after Osborne's cut

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

I am not going to search 65k posts, but it screeching / screaming is regular term i use on here, often in relation to say twitter reaction to something. And never been accused of sexism for doing so.

Same as never been accused of racism, homophobia etc.

And I don't think I have even mentioned Rayner very much at all. It was a very odd post from Mike.

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

noneoftheabove said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky

Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions

Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector

Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas

One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.

One fucking million.

You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.

All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.

You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.

I was astonished when Jon Craig of Sky announced the figure

I had to wind it back to be sure

From the FT

"Nearly a million letters will be sent out to all drivers who hold an HGV driving licence, encouraging them to return to the industry."

So the nearly a million number is all HGV licence holders presumably including those working as an HGV driver. Not sure how DVLA would be able to exclude them.

Probably but out of a million there must be a considerable number who will come back if the pay and bonuses are enhanced

It depends. If you do what PT says and double HGV drivers pay yes some will come back. But then each household will need to pay on average about £400 extra a year to fund that, which many do not have, even before cutting UC, fuel and tax increases. It is just shifting from one big problem to another big problem.

Or we can have immigration, which is where we started from and will also be the endpoint.

I am not sure of your maths but no way should we go back down the road of cheap foreign labour at the expense of British wages

Lots of ways to get there or thereabouts. Lets take the average as £30k and double to £60k (still too low vs an MP which seems to be PT's yardstick for some random reason).

300k existing drivers get an extra £30k = £12bn
Lets say we get 50k new drivers get an extra £60k = £3bn

£15bn to be found by Joe Public.

28m households in the UK

That would be £530 average per household.

Add electricity and UC cuts and there will be millions in debt very quickly.

The idea we can pay everyone MP salaries if it wasnt for immigrants is a very weird fantasy. We dont earn anything like enough to do that.

Extra tax and NI on 15 billion is a lot to the exchequer

Great, the retired will do well.

https://fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

So will their children and grandchildren who inherit it

They will be close to retirement when they inherit!

It used to be vote Tory, work hard and we will give you opportunity.

Somehow that has morphed into, vote Tory, wait a long time for your parents to die.

The Tory party was the party of estates and inheritance and rural landowners in the 18th and 19th century long before it became the party of traders, professionals and investors in the 20th century, that used to be the Liberals and long before it became the party of the working class in 2019 too, that used to be the Labour Party.

Plus some parents give their children money early to help with deposits to buy properties in their 20s and 30s

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

No one will notice outside of the usual anoraks.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

I am not going to search 65k posts, but it screeching / screaming is regular term i use on here, often in relation to say twitter reaction to something. And never been accused of sexism for doing so.

Same as never been accused of racism, homophobia etc.

And I don't think I have even mentioned Rayner very much at all. It was a very odd post from Mike.

Thought so.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

Like those wealthy Tory donors do?

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

I am not going to search 65k posts, but it screeching / screaming is regular term i use on here, often in relation to say twitter reaction to something. And never been accused of sexism for doing so.

Same as never been accused of racism, homophobia etc.

And I don't think I have even mentioned Rayner very much at all. It was a very odd post from Mike.

Thought so.

Don't be a dick.

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Correct. The ordinary 'middle of the road' punters will say LOL to her.

Keir is trying hard and appears to have got through some sensible changes to LAB leadership rules today. But the electorate look beyond the leader to the broader team. Good luck with that Labour.

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

That eagles fellow seems to get the worst of it.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

I am not going to search 65k posts, but it screeching / screaming is regular term i use on here, often in relation to say twitter reaction to something. And never been accused of sexism for doing so.

Same as never been accused of racism, homophobia etc.

And I don't think I have even mentioned Rayner very much at all. It was a very odd post from Mike.

Thought so.

Don't be a dick.

Fair enough - I'm male, after all. But I'd have a wager that you'll avoid referring to female politicians as 'screaming' after this discussion.

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

What about Bob Dylan? 😆

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Northern_Al said:

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

SandyRentool said:

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Ms Rayner dealing with a heckler:

"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"

Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…

She's just lost my vote.

She’s trying to win it back:

BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”

https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1441858905294966789

Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.

You are the one making the sexists comments. Rayner seems to bring out the worst in PB Tories which is probably why she would be a good leader.

Which of @FrancisUrquhart ’s comments is sexist? Men can scream too.

Gordon Brown waves....

I honestly have no idea what Mike was on about.

The use of screaming was the only one I could think of and that’s pretty marginal

I assumed Mike was referring to 'screaming'. Starmer drones. Corbyn meanders. But Rayner screams. Could well be seen as sexist.

Just absolute nonsense. If I only used it in relation to females on here, perhaps there might be some tiny merit, in the way back in the day Tim used to only use certain language in relation to female posters.

But i don't, i used it across sexes and parties, usually relating to when politicians and parties just rant nonsense.

It was totally uncalled for and inaccurate post from Mike.

Fair enough, so which male politicians have you accused of "screaming"?

I am not going to search 65k posts, but it screeching / screaming is regular term i use on here, often in relation to say twitter reaction to something. And never been accused of sexism for doing so.

Same as never been accused of racism, homophobia etc.

And I don't think I have even mentioned Rayner very much at all. It was a very odd post from Mike.

Searching for the word scream bring up 134 pages of results.

Its not an unheard of term.

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

That is a wildly inventive simile. Chapeau.

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

So DLG was NOT criticized for his verbiage at Limehouse? IIRC plenty of adverse comment at the time, along same lines as expressed by our Andy.

BTW it's Bob Dylan, changed from Zimmerman in honor of Dylan Thomas (also infamous for his "bad" language)

EDIT - is Mr Bloby another known for political invective?

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

So DLG was NOT criticized for his verbiage at Limehouse? IIRC plenty of adverse comment at the time, along same lines as expressed by our Andy.

BTW it's Bob Dylan, changed from Zimmerman in honor of Dylan Thomas (also infamous for his "bad" language)

Pedant hat on. @HYUFD is correct. Bob Dillon was one of the pseudonyms he went under before settling on Dylan. Blind Boy Grunt and Elston Gunn being two more. He produces under the name Jack Frost right now.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/12/did-rock-legend-bob-dylan-steal-his-name-from-packers-legend-bob-dillion/

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

So DLG was NOT criticized for his verbiage at Limehouse? IIRC plenty of adverse comment at the time, along same lines as expressed by our Andy.

BTW it's Bob Dylan, changed from Zimmerman in honor of Dylan Thomas (also infamous for his "bad" language)

EDIT - is Mr Bloby another known for political invective?

He's known for invective. Usually on the receiving end though.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

FrancisUrquhart said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I would imagine if Labour banned charitable status of private schools, the unintended consequence will be that the charitable work and facility sharing they currently do will be the first thing to go.

And all that would happen is fees up, more rich foreign students, meaning more British kids needing state education and costing the taxpayer more.

So the £1.7bn quickly becomes a hell of a lot less than that.

It seems like one of those things like private health care, even if you are idealogically against, removing it is far from cost free.

To me seems like lot more important things to worry about. Put taxes up on the rich if you want the money for state education.

Blair's removal of the assisted places was instrumental in making these schools even more socially exclusive than they were in the late '90s. It's New Labour at its gestural worst rather than more fresh-thinking, I think. Either you might giant and radical changes to this sector, or you leave it alone.

Obviously it was in the 2019 manifesto as was £10 an hr, banning ZHC, Green New Deal, loft laggers of the world unite.

Be interesting to see if Labour have anything new. Brexit is one thing, but the world is changing fast, we need some serious sensible solutions for the problems both now, but coming down the tracks.

Several of those from 2019 I have some sympathy with, if not always the sheer amount of them and the way they were communicated, but this is just low-end gesturing that achieves little, I think.

Labour definitely needs a lot of new ideas, as do all the parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcNyMBw818&list=RDMM&index=5

TANGLED UP IN BLUE
Bob Dylan

Early one morning, the sun was shining
I was laying in bed
Wondering if she'd changed it all
If her hair was still red
Her folks, they said our lives together
Sure was gonna be rough
They never did like mama's homemade dress
Papa's bankbook wasn't big enough
And I was standing on the side of the road
Rain falling on my shoes
Heading out for the East coast
Lord knows I've paid some dues getting through
Tangled up in blue

She was married when we first met
Soon to be divorced
I helped her out of a jam, I guess
But I used a little too much force
We drove that car as far as we could
Abandoned it out West
Split up on a dark, sad night
Both agreeing it was best
She turned around to look at me
As I was walking away
I heard her say over my shoulder
"We'll meet again someday on the Avenue"
Tangled up in blue

I had a job in the great North Woods
Working as a cook for a spell
But I never did like it all that much
And one day the ax just fell
So I drifted down to New Orleans
Where I was happy to be employed
Workin' for a while on a fishin' boat
Right outside of Delacroix
But all the while I was alone
The past was close behind
I seen a lot of women
But she never escaped my mind and I just grew
Tangled up in blue

She was working in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer
I just kept looking at the sight of her face
In the spotlight so clear
And later on when the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same
She was standing there in back of my chair
Saying, "Don't I know your name?"
I muttered something underneath my breath
She studied the lines on my face
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe
Tangled up in blue

She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe
"I thought you'd never say hello, " she said
"You look like the silent type"
Then she opened up a book of poems
And handed it to me
Written by an Italian poet
From the thirteenth century
And every one of them words rang true
And glowed like burnin' coal
Pourin' off of every page
Like it was written in my soul from me to you
Tangled up in blue

I lived with them on Montague Street
In a basement down the stairs
There was music in the cafés at night
And revolution in the air
Then he started into dealing with slaves
And something inside of him died
She had to sell everything she owned
And froze up inside
And when finally the bottom fell out
I became withdrawn
The only thing I knew how to do
Was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew
Tangled up in blue

So now I'm going back again
I got to get her somehow
All the people we used to know
They're an illusion to me now
Some are mathematicians
Some are carpenters' wives
Don't know how it all got started
I don't what they do with their lives
But me, I'm still on the road
Headin' for another joint
We always did feel the same
We just saw it from a different point of view
Tangled up in blue

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

Interesting to see Canada in mid-table.
Housing affordability was a big issue the Tories used to attack Trudeau. Not a patch on ours.

dixiedean said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

HYUFD said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Andy_JS said:

Angela Rayner isn't going to be prime minister after her comments tonight. She may have won support from the left of the Labour Party but swing voters won't take her seriously.

Isn't that what they said about David Lloyd George re: his Limehouse speech?

Comparing Angela Rayner to Lloyd George is like comparing Mr Blobby to Bob Dillon

So DLG was NOT criticized for his verbiage at Limehouse? IIRC plenty of adverse comment at the time, along same lines as expressed by our Andy.

BTW it's Bob Dylan, changed from Zimmerman in honor of Dylan Thomas (also infamous for his "bad" language)

Pedant hat on. @HYUFD is correct. Bob Dillon was one of the pseudonyms he went under before settling on Dylan. Blind Boy Grunt and Elston Gunn being two more. He produces under the name Jack Frost right now.

https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/12/did-rock-legend-bob-dylan-steal-his-name-from-packers-legend-bob-dillion/

Fascinating. Though suspect HYUFD got it right (im)purely by accident.

Regardless, I give him my semi-abject, quasi-sincere apology!

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcNyMBw818&list=RDMM&index=5

TANGLED UP IN BLUE
Bob Dylan

Early one morning, the sun was shining
I was laying in bed
Wondering if she'd changed it all
If her hair was still red
Her folks, they said our lives together
Sure was gonna be rough
They never did like mama's homemade dress
Papa's bankbook wasn't big enough
And I was standing on the side of the road
Rain falling on my shoes
Heading out for the East coast
Lord knows I've paid some dues getting through
Tangled up in blue

She was married when we first met
Soon to be divorced
I helped her out of a jam, I guess
But I used a little too much force
We drove that car as far as we could
Abandoned it out West
Split up on a dark, sad night
Both agreeing it was best
She turned around to look at me
As I was walking away
I heard her say over my shoulder
"We'll meet again someday on the Avenue"
Tangled up in blue

I had a job in the great North Woods
Working as a cook for a spell
But I never did like it all that much
And one day the ax just fell
So I drifted down to New Orleans
Where I was happy to be employed
Workin' for a while on a fishin' boat
Right outside of Delacroix
But all the while I was alone
The past was close behind
I seen a lot of women
But she never escaped my mind and I just grew
Tangled up in blue

She was working in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer
I just kept looking at the sight of her face
In the spotlight so clear
And later on when the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same
She was standing there in back of my chair
Saying, "Don't I know your name?"
I muttered something underneath my breath
She studied the lines on my face
I must admit I felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe
Tangled up in blue

She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe
"I thought you'd never say hello, " she said
"You look like the silent type"
Then she opened up a book of poems
And handed it to me
Written by an Italian poet
From the thirteenth century
And every one of them words rang true
And glowed like burnin' coal
Pourin' off of every page
Like it was written in my soul from me to you
Tangled up in blue

I lived with them on Montague Street
In a basement down the stairs
There was music in the cafés at night
And revolution in the air
Then he started into dealing with slaves
And something inside of him died
She had to sell everything she owned
And froze up inside
And when finally the bottom fell out
I became withdrawn
The only thing I knew how to do
Was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew
Tangled up in blue

So now I'm going back again
I got to get her somehow
All the people we used to know
They're an illusion to me now
Some are mathematicians
Some are carpenters' wives
Don't know how it all got started
I don't what they do with their lives
But me, I'm still on the road
Headin' for another joint
We always did feel the same
We just saw it from a different point of view
Tangled up in blue

If anyone ever tells you pronouns don't matter. There are endless live versions of this with different verses, particularly the last, and alternate lyrics. It is a song he hasn't yet finished.
But there are ones in which he simply shuffles all the pronouns around.
And it becomes a completely different tale entirely.

Has Rayner slipped up?

@Nadine_Writes
Interestingly, while accusing the Tories of being racist, Labour's Deputy leader Angela Rayner reportedly said the Govt is "operating a banana republic”. "Banana republic" is often viewed as a derogatory term, typically used in a racist context.

https://twitter.com/Nadine_Writes/status/1441900732073095168

FrancisUrquhart said:

dixiedean said:

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

Interesting to see Canada in mid-table.
Housing affordability was a big issue the Tories used to attack Trudeau. Not a patch on ours.

Isn't Canada problem 3-4 cities and your Banffs of the world its gone mental, but still very cheap to live outside of those in the sticks, as loads of land.

Where as the UK, we have seen this across all big cities and towns, plus all these rural areas like Cotswold, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall etc, its easier to talk about where it hasn't i.e. total dives in left behind Northern towns.

I want to know what they are doing in South Korea. I don't think they have the same deflationary economy as Japan?

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

The lie that there's been no inflation in the past few decades has to be brought down on its knees. There's been inflation, we've just inflated the assets of the landlord class and inflated the costs of everyone else.

Time to reverse that. We need wage inflation, to bring costs back down. Housing costs going up in the past two decades has been every bit as terrible as food or energy costs going up in the 70s and 80s.

Same shit, different day.

FrancisUrquhart said:

dixiedean said:

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

Interesting to see Canada in mid-table.
Housing affordability was a big issue the Tories used to attack Trudeau. Not a patch on ours.

Isn't Canada problem 3-4 cities and your Banffs of the world its gone mental, but still very cheap to live outside of those in the sticks, as loads of land.

Where as the UK, we have seen this across all big cities and towns, plus all these rural areas like Cotswold, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall etc, its easier to talk about where it hasn't i.e. total dives in left behind Northern towns.

Well indeed. Trouble is, in Canada that's where all the decent jobs are. And the locals are being priced out. BC suffers from being the only place you can be homeless and survive a winter. Course, you can't just live in a timber cottage by a lake and WFH here.
But, if you grew up in downtown Vancouver that is equally as alien. And we don't have moose and grizzlies in Gloucestershire.
Same shit. Different place.

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

dixiedean said:

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

Interesting to see Canada in mid-table.
Housing affordability was a big issue the Tories used to attack Trudeau. Not a patch on ours.

Isn't Canada problem 3-4 cities and your Banffs of the world its gone mental, but still very cheap to live outside of those in the sticks, as loads of land.

Where as the UK, we have seen this across all big cities and towns, plus all these rural areas like Cotswold, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall etc, its easier to talk about where it hasn't i.e. total dives in left behind Northern towns.

Well indeed. Trouble is, in Canada that's where all the decent jobs are. And the locals are being priced out. BC suffers from being the only place you can be homeless and survive a winter. Course, you can't just live in a timber cottage by a lake and WFH here.
But, if you grew up in downtown Vancouver that is equally as alien. And we don't have moose and grizzlies in Gloucestershire.
Same shit. Different place.

That was my point, why the chart is a bit misleading.

dixiedean said:

Philip_Thompson said:

ping said:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-global-housing-market-is-broken-and-it-s-dividing-entire-countries-1.1654418

The lie that there's been no inflation in the past few decades has to be brought down on its knees. There's been inflation, we've just inflated the assets of the landlord class and inflated the costs of everyone else.

Time to reverse that. We need wage inflation, to bring costs back down. Housing costs going up in the past two decades has been every bit as terrible as food or energy costs going up in the 70s and 80s.

Same shit, different day.

Crumbs. I said same shit different. .. without seeing your post on exactly the topic, but in an entirely different context.

LOL. I did wonder if you'd read mine. Amusing coincidence, great minds think alike!

Government looking for somebody to blame...Interesting though...

The fuel crisis began to snowball last week after comments made by Hanna Hofer, head of BP’s retail business, at a Cabinet Office meeting were leaked. On September 16, Ms Hofer told civil servants, hauliers and other industry figures that the company had ‘two-thirds of normal forecourt stock levels’.

According to a senior Government source, however, she also said the situation had been ‘going on for weeks’ and that very few forecourts had had to close. Crucially, those additional comments – which Government insiders believe would have prevented or at least reduced the panic-buying of fuel – were not made public.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10028661/HGV-boss-accused-triggering-petrol-pump-crisis-Ministers-point-finger-ex-BBC-man.html

Its bog roll crisis all over again...some limited shortages, get amplified and you get crazy panic buying, leads to widespread shortages.

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

dixiedean said:

No idea.
But at least it hasn't widely reached the stage of screaming abuse at folk for making a personal choice.
Let's be British and keep it that way, please.

It's already here. Apparently it's 'moronic' to wear a mask now.

Needless to say, this unwanted advice has not changed my own view one bit.

I've been called "hysterical" by @Anabobazina on this very forum for my views on the need to keep wearing masks. If thats hysterical for the pray the pox away brigade, I can cope.

That’s untrue. I refer to your posts as frequently hysterical, because they are, and also hypocritical, because they are often that too. Nothing to do with masks. I have said several times on here that mask wearing is a personal choice.

Andy_JS said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

China is the craziest, 37x salary to get a property....

I swear it could end up like that in the UK and we'd still have people on this site saying that we mustn't build on green space and that there's no inflation in the country so long as CPI remains low . . .

If we are going to build on green space, it has to be mainly in Scotland, Wales and northern England, not the south and the Midlands.

The housing crisis was created by decades of saying "anyone from anywhere can live anywhere they want to".

So the only real solution is to say "anyone from anywhere can build anywhere they want to".

We need homes where people live. Some in the North yes, but I'm afraid to say that people don't only live in the North . . .

Andy_JS said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

China is the craziest, 37x salary to get a property....

I swear it could end up like that in the UK and we'd still have people on this site saying that we mustn't build on green space and that there's no inflation in the country so long as CPI remains low . . .

If we are going to build on green space, it has to be mainly in Scotland, Wales and northern England, not the south and the Midlands.

But then you need to have reason to live here. There are plenty, although diminishing, houses which folk don't want. Right now they are being occupied by the homeless from across the nation. Or not at all.
Which ain't really levelling up.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Oh. This might change things...

Fuck him.

A charitable campaign is one thing.

If he wants to get involved in politics he should get himself elected

What an unpleasant comment.

williamglenn said:

Has Rayner slipped up?

@Nadine_Writes
Interestingly, while accusing the Tories of being racist, Labour's Deputy leader Angela Rayner reportedly said the Govt is "operating a banana republic”. "Banana republic" is often viewed as a derogatory term, typically used in a racist context.

https://twitter.com/Nadine_Writes/status/1441900732073095168

If anything, the term is anti-American, as it refers to the countries that big American agricultural companies ran as effective fiefdoms, getting Uncle Sam to send the troops in whenever the locals tried to kick back.

williamglenn said:

Mali's PM told the UN General Assembly that France abandoned his country with a "unilateral" decision to withdraw troops, and his government was justified to "seek other partners" - likely to be Russian paramilitaries

https://twitter.com/afp/status/1441885472716906497

British forces were assisting the French troops in Mali. I don't know whether they're still there or not.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TOPPING said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Usyk too good.

We are never getting Fury vs Joshua in their prime.

Why should we? AJ isn't up to the big moment.

UD Usyk.

Well clear now he isn't. You could say Ruiz might have been a one off, but Usyk took him apart there.

I presume he'll be entitled to a rematch, again?

Does seem a really weird system, boxing.

Yes, rematch clause. So that's another 12 months, then same result again....

In meantime, Fury beats up Wilder again. And then nobody to fight for another 18 months.

Oh well, the Ukranian half of my household is the happier this morning, after that result.