Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
If the problem was filling up cars you would be right. The problem is restocking petrol stations. We have a shortage of drivers who can do that. They couldnt cope with the load last week. Next weeks load is far bigger.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
Says Mr 3 types of Balsamic...
LOL!
I'm never going to live that one down.
Rightly.
OK. To clarify, I only bought one of the bottles of Balsamic. From the airport shop in Pisa coming home from a work trip. It is Wor Lass who has felt the need to procure two further varieties.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.
Pretty certain Raynor has always used language like that. Hence why I’m not sure being that adversarial is particularly helpful, particularly as she needs to win over some of those voters keeping the “scum” in Downing Street
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
I am not assuming anything but where is the evidence that are not restocking at the rate required bearing in mind the huge numbers who have already been fuelled
From experience it is just not physically possible. I am afraid I can't give you any evidence other than my encyclopaedic knowledge of transport scheduling.
Do we need much knowledge here?
They couldnt keep up with deliveries with normal buying last week. (Otherwise they wouldnt have started shutting stores a couple of days ago).
The number of stores they have to refuel next week is far more than they failed to refuel last week.
It seems blatantly obvious there will be a bigger lag over the next week?
The number of stores "shut" was virtually 0 prior to the media creating a story where none existed.
Even in normal circumstances sometimes sites can run out of fuel. Especially if people are looking to generate panic. In normal circumstances its a non-story and people move on to the next site, in this manic 24/7 news and Twitter world we live in now though people can create a story out of nothing.
BP alone had 100 stores out of at least one fuel on Thursday before any panic buying. That is not near 0.
Out of one type of fuel isn't shut. Besides how many are out of one type of fuel in normal circumstances?
OK. To clarify, I only bought one of the bottles of Balsamic. From the airport shop in Pisa coming home from a work trip. It is Wor Lass who has felt the need to procure two further varieties.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.
Pretty certain Raynor has always used language like that. Hence why I’m not sure being that adversarial is particularly helpful, particularly as she needs to win over some of those voters keeping the “scum” in Downing Street
They need to win people like me. Going all class warfare just turns me off, and I didn't go to private school, come from working class family.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
Well said. Flabbergasted by the Header. It is the Tories who are setting the example.
Conservative Peter Bone is self-isolating having taken a test for COVID-19 and testing positive. The Wellingborough MP [Con], who is double-vaccinated, said it felt like “really nasty flu” and he had taken to his bed but hoped to be on the mend soon. https://twitter.com/tvnewswatch/status/1439957872373374979/photo/1
Rachel Burden of 5 live went down with and was double vaccinated and said much the same
And your point is ?
Without the wonders of Boris' vaccination campaign, we might have been looking at a by-election.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
What’s your point here? When things go wrong - you’ll blame brexit. Fine. Copying and pasting links Twitter comments doesn’t change the fact the argument is hopefully entrenched on both sides.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
I am not assuming anything but where is the evidence that are not restocking at the rate required bearing in mind the huge numbers who have already been fuelled
From experience it is just not physically possible. I am afraid I can't give you any evidence other than my encyclopaedic knowledge of transport scheduling.
Do we need much knowledge here?
They couldnt keep up with deliveries with normal buying last week. (Otherwise they wouldnt have started shutting stores a couple of days ago).
The number of stores they have to refuel next week is far more than they failed to refuel last week.
It seems blatantly obvious there will be a bigger lag over the next week?
The number of stores "shut" was virtually 0 prior to the media creating a story where none existed.
Even in normal circumstances sometimes sites can run out of fuel. Especially if people are looking to generate panic. In normal circumstances its a non-story and people move on to the next site, in this manic 24/7 news and Twitter world we live in now though people can create a story out of nothing.
BP alone had 100 stores out of at least one fuel on Thursday before any panic buying. That is not near 0.
Out of one type of fuel isn't shut. Besides how many are out of one type of fuel in normal circumstances?
No idea, we shall see what happens. I predict things will get worse for about a week to ten days and will be worse than typical for a further couple of weeks.
What’s your point here? When things go wrong - you’ll blame brexit. Fine. Copying and pasting links Twitter comments doesn’t change the fact the argument is hopefully entrenched on both sides.
Hopelessly maybe??
And by his own admission it is his lifetime mission
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Exhibit A - Covid vaccines.....
I’m not advocating for either side, but you can see how brexiters could say vaccines. Or the end of freedom of movement would be seen to be a benefit for them as well.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
What’s your point here? When things go wrong - you’ll blame brexit. Fine. Copying and pasting links Twitter comments doesn’t change the fact the argument is hopefully entrenched on both sides.
Hopelessly maybe??
And by his own admission it is his lifetime mission
Woah! So Rayner does not hold back as she slates the “racist”, “homophobic” and “misogynistic” Tory “scum” in government who are operating a “banana republic” from Downing St.
I wonder what she really thinks! 9:13 PM · Sep 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone"
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
Says Mr 3 types of Balsamic...
LOL!
I'm never going to live that one down.
Rightly.
OK. To clarify, I only bought one of the bottles of Balsamic. From the airport shop in Pisa coming home from a work trip. It is Wor Lass who has felt the need to procure two further varieties.
Just as nobody is panic buying, they really needed to fill up the car today.
(What’s annoying me is that that was true, for me, having just 25% of a tank left, but nobody will ever believe me.)
This mask debate is really boring, so I may as well join in.
For those who don't want to ever wear masks, that's up to them. I rarely wear one. But, for example, my local bakery has a sign on the door politely asking customers to wear a mask (the staff all wear one), so out of respect I put a mask on when buying bread. Similarly, my local bus company has notices asking passengers to wear one, so I oblige on my quite frequent bus journeys.
What's wrong with a bit of common courtesy? If you're asked (politely) to stick a mask on, why not do it - even if you think it's unnecessary? It's not a big deal, and nor is it virtue signaling.
That is basically what I do in real life. I suppose I have an objection though to being asked to do things that I think are completely pointless to pander to people who are essentially mentally ill.
For instance, I was on a train in Scotland over the summer and the woman manning the buffet car was determined to uphold the 2 metre distancing rule. This led to her telling me to wait in the next carriage while she made my coffee, and then she made an announcement over the train PA system that I could come back to the buffet car as my coffee was now ready, much to the amusement (or frustration) of everyone on the train.
I had a little respect left for you (not a lot, but some) until THAT post
I mean... you bought ScotRail coffee? Fucking animal.
It was LNER
I humbly apologise.
In any case the LNER trains follow English law. Even after trundling past Lamberton Toll.
"If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field/ That is for ever England."
I don't think that is quite correct. I think the scottish social distancing rules applied but then changed at Berwick upon Tweed, or something like that. What I would say though, from observation on two different trips around Scotland this summer, is that the Scots were less enthusiastic about the Covid rules than their government.
i can only talk about my corner of Aberdeenshire, but masks are everywhere in the local shop and the two supermarkets I visit. Everyone I see at the bus stop near my place is masked up getting on and off. Experiences may differ in the central belt, but I've not been there since all this kicked off, so I wouldn't know.
I guess the good weather helped but I found it to be beautiful part of the world. Cycled from Dundee to Aberdeen along the coastal path. Rolling hills, long sandy beaches, quirky military installations etc. No midges. Mostly free of english tourists. Everyone I met was very friendly.
My son and his wife have just done the NC500 as their delayed honeymoon post there wedding in July in their converted campervan
Weather was mixed but in Applecross the rain lashed down and the wind howled rocking the campervan from side to side and needing ear plugs to go to sleep
Marginally better than a tent, but the scenery was fabulous, they traced his Mother's home in the war in Wick, and fell in love with the 'Heilan Coo's'
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
Woah! So Rayner does not hold back as she slates the “racist”, “homophobic” and “misogynistic” Tory “scum” in government who are operating a “banana republic” from Downing St.
I wonder what she really thinks! 9:13 PM · Sep 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone"
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
I do give a toss about people which is why I think the vulnerable who need protection should get the advice to wear a proper FFP3 mask that actually does the job instead of a cloth mask placebo.
As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷♂️
What is wrong with a placebo? I thought you were a libertarian?
If you're deliberately giving people a placebo, when there's a working and approved alternative available, without informing them its a placebo - then unless they've knowingly subscribed to a trial knowing a placebo is an option then that's not good ethics.
But nobody is deliberately giving anyone anything. It is personal choice.
Except people are giving people the misunderstanding that cloth masks work well. Rather than educate that FFP3 masks are what work well to protect the wearer.
Are they? And are people wearing masks to protect the wearer? That certainly isn't my motivation on the occasions I wear one. And from much of the testimony here quite a few others too. What about those Christian cross pendants? Or indeed any religious garb?
Saying that we will wear masks to protect antivaxxers is completely wrongheaded, we should be telling the antivaxxers "get your f***ing vaccine or get Covid".
But there you are again. It is absolutely none of your business what other people do with regard to masks, or why. Insulting folk who choose to wear a mask seems to be a remarkably common libertarian trait.
I'm not insulting folk who choose to wear a mask. They could wear a clove of garlic for all I care.
I'm insulting folk who think they can command others to wear a mask. Those nosy busybodies have it coming.
OK. I'll let it go. Sometimes you are a poster who gets under my skin occasionally. I think it may be because I either find myself in either strong agreement or strong disagreement with you. Very rarely in between. However, I am irked by the long line up of rugged, freedom loving posters who won't be told what to do by anyone at all, but are driven to a fury by the mere sight of other people in masks. And who assert freedom of choice, but are damned certain only one particular choice (theirs) is the morally superior, righteous and correct one. Of course they caveat it, but it reeks of the very puritanism they purport to condemn. No one should have to explain why they do or don't wear a mask. No one should be pilloried for their decision. There is no right or wrong. It is personal decision which no one else can fully appreciate the calculations or emotions behind it. It is the very essence of intolerance.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Well I must admit I much preferred and valued the generally good governance we had from 1990-2015 to the shambles which we have had since we have "taken back control" and divided the country.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Sunday times is reporting that Essar and its refinery in Ellesmere Port is about to go bankrupt as it owes HMRC £220m
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
My problem with this sort of thing is I don't know that other than the die hards who will accept that on faith it works as a headline comment, without an explanation of why it is the case.
I mean, people repeat the same quotes from Boris from sometimes quite long ago, but it is hard to argue that on a personal level he is racist given race appears not to factor into his appointments in any way, so it must be about racist policy, which even if true is a harder charge to make stick. For instance, is Downing Street motivated by racism, simply ignorant, or through lack of care enacting racist policies?
Sure, conference week is going to be the time to break out the greatest hits (people love a good 'scum' line, though I suppose Tories are more likely to talk about Trots instead) and not engage in detail (if parties can avoid it) or nuanced attacks, but it takes a lot for a charge of racism and homophobia stick, and do we think more people will start to think that of Boris and No. 10 than already do, or is that feeling maxed out?
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Sunday times is reporting that Essar and its refinery in Ellesmere Port is about to go bankrupt as it owes HMRC £220m
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
I do give a toss about people which is why I think the vulnerable who need protection should get the advice to wear a proper FFP3 mask that actually does the job instead of a cloth mask placebo.
As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷♂️
What is wrong with a placebo? I thought you were a libertarian?
If you're deliberately giving people a placebo, when there's a working and approved alternative available, without informing them its a placebo - then unless they've knowingly subscribed to a trial knowing a placebo is an option then that's not good ethics.
But nobody is deliberately giving anyone anything. It is personal choice.
Except people are giving people the misunderstanding that cloth masks work well. Rather than educate that FFP3 masks are what work well to protect the wearer.
Are they? And are people wearing masks to protect the wearer? That certainly isn't my motivation on the occasions I wear one. And from much of the testimony here quite a few others too. What about those Christian cross pendants? Or indeed any religious garb?
Saying that we will wear masks to protect antivaxxers is completely wrongheaded, we should be telling the antivaxxers "get your f***ing vaccine or get Covid".
But there you are again. It is absolutely none of your business what other people do with regard to masks, or why. Insulting folk who choose to wear a mask seems to be a remarkably common libertarian trait.
I'm not insulting folk who choose to wear a mask. They could wear a clove of garlic for all I care.
I'm insulting folk who think they can command others to wear a mask. Those nosy busybodies have it coming.
OK. I'll let it go. Sometimes you are a poster who gets under my skin occasionally. I think it may be because I either find myself in either strong agreement or strong disagreement with you. Very rarely in between. However, I am irked by the long line up of rugged, freedom loving posters who won't be told what to do by anyone at all, but are driven to a fury by the mere sight of other people in masks. And who assert freedom of choice, but are damned certain only one particular choice (theirs) is the morally superior, righteous and correct one. Of course they caveat it, but it reeks of the very puritanism they purport to condemn. No one should have to explain why they do or don't wear a mask. No one should be pilloried for their decision. There is no right or wrong. It is personal decision which no one else can fully appreciate the calculations or emotions behind it. It is the very essence of intolerance.
But I'm not irritated by others wearing masks. I'm content to let people decide for themselves.
I can think its the right decision to take the mask off while respecting people's right to choose to keep it on.
Libertarianism doesn't mean being devoid of opinions or thoughts on what is best. It is about letting everyone make their own thoughts, their own decisions and their own judgements.
I think masks are a bad idea under the circumstances. I think taking drugs are a bad idea, I think smoking is a bad idea, I think voting Labour is a bad idea. I don't do any of them. But I think if someone else wants to wear a mask, if someone else wants to take drugs, or if someone else wants to smoke and even if someone wants to vote for Jeremy Corbyn - all of that should be their choice if they make it.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
This mask debate is really boring, so I may as well join in.
For those who don't want to ever wear masks, that's up to them. I rarely wear one. But, for example, my local bakery has a sign on the door politely asking customers to wear a mask (the staff all wear one), so out of respect I put a mask on when buying bread. Similarly, my local bus company has notices asking passengers to wear one, so I oblige on my quite frequent bus journeys.
What's wrong with a bit of common courtesy? If you're asked (politely) to stick a mask on, why not do it - even if you think it's unnecessary? It's not a big deal, and nor is it virtue signaling.
That is basically what I do in real life. I suppose I have an objection though to being asked to do things that I think are completely pointless to pander to people who are essentially mentally ill.
For instance, I was on a train in Scotland over the summer and the woman manning the buffet car was determined to uphold the 2 metre distancing rule. This led to her telling me to wait in the next carriage while she made my coffee, and then she made an announcement over the train PA system that I could come back to the buffet car as my coffee was now ready, much to the amusement (or frustration) of everyone on the train.
I had a little respect left for you (not a lot, but some) until THAT post
I mean... you bought ScotRail coffee? Fucking animal.
It was LNER
I humbly apologise.
In any case the LNER trains follow English law. Even after trundling past Lamberton Toll.
"If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field/ That is for ever England."
I don't think that is quite correct. I think the scottish social distancing rules applied but then changed at Berwick upon Tweed, or something like that. What I would say though, from observation on two different trips around Scotland this summer, is that the Scots were less enthusiastic about the Covid rules than their government.
i can only talk about my corner of Aberdeenshire, but masks are everywhere in the local shop and the two supermarkets I visit. Everyone I see at the bus stop near my place is masked up getting on and off. Experiences may differ in the central belt, but I've not been there since all this kicked off, so I wouldn't know.
I guess the good weather helped but I found it to be beautiful part of the world. Cycled from Dundee to Aberdeen along the coastal path. Rolling hills, long sandy beaches, quirky military installations etc. No midges. Mostly free of english tourists. Everyone I met was very friendly.
My son and his wife have just done the NC500 as their delayed honeymoon post there wedding in July in their converted campervan
Weather was mixed but in Applecross the rain lashed down and the wind howled rocking the campervan from side to side and needing ear plugs to go to sleep
Marginally better than a tent, but the scenery was fabulous, they traced his Mother's home in the war in Wick, and fell in love with the 'Heilan Coo's'
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
I am not assuming anything but where is the evidence that are not restocking at the rate required bearing in mind the huge numbers who have already been fuelled
From experience it is just not physically possible. I am afraid I can't give you any evidence other than my encyclopaedic knowledge of transport scheduling.
Do we need much knowledge here?
They couldnt keep up with deliveries with normal buying last week. (Otherwise they wouldnt have started shutting stores a couple of days ago).
The number of stores they have to refuel next week is far more than they failed to refuel last week.
It seems blatantly obvious there will be a bigger lag over the next week?
The number of stores "shut" was virtually 0 prior to the media creating a story where none existed.
Even in normal circumstances sometimes sites can run out of fuel. Especially if people are looking to generate panic. In normal circumstances its a non-story and people move on to the next site, in this manic 24/7 news and Twitter world we live in now though people can create a story out of nothing.
BP alone had 100 stores out of at least one fuel on Thursday before any panic buying. That is not near 0.
Out of one type of fuel isn't shut. Besides how many are out of one type of fuel in normal circumstances?
No idea, we shall see what happens. I predict things will get worse for about a week to ten days and will be worse than typical for a further couple of weeks.
It depends. Demand may be depressed enough by people eschewing nonessential journeys for things to get back on track again, at least for a while.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Well I must admit I much preferred and valued the generally good governance we had from 1990-2015 to the shambles which we have had since we have "taken back control" and divided the country.
How is your first complaint of 'taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired' different to the taxation and pensions strategy governments followed from 1990 to 2015 ?
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes. Because under normal circumstances ALL the filling stations are not ALL empty at a particular starting point, i.e. now, Saturday evening.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Well I must admit I much preferred and valued the generally good governance we had from 1990-2015 to the shambles which we have had since we have "taken back control" and divided the country.
How is your first complaint of 'taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired' different to the taxation and pensions strategy governments followed from 1990 to 2015 ?
Back in 1990 the share of wealth owned by pensioners was far less than it is now. Increasing the state pension more quickly than wages at that time was a good policy, now it is not.
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
I know 4 people with HGV licenses, none of whom drive HGVs for a living
This mask debate is really boring, so I may as well join in.
For those who don't want to ever wear masks, that's up to them. I rarely wear one. But, for example, my local bakery has a sign on the door politely asking customers to wear a mask (the staff all wear one), so out of respect I put a mask on when buying bread. Similarly, my local bus company has notices asking passengers to wear one, so I oblige on my quite frequent bus journeys.
What's wrong with a bit of common courtesy? If you're asked (politely) to stick a mask on, why not do it - even if you think it's unnecessary? It's not a big deal, and nor is it virtue signaling.
That is basically what I do in real life. I suppose I have an objection though to being asked to do things that I think are completely pointless to pander to people who are essentially mentally ill.
For instance, I was on a train in Scotland over the summer and the woman manning the buffet car was determined to uphold the 2 metre distancing rule. This led to her telling me to wait in the next carriage while she made my coffee, and then she made an announcement over the train PA system that I could come back to the buffet car as my coffee was now ready, much to the amusement (or frustration) of everyone on the train.
I had a little respect left for you (not a lot, but some) until THAT post
I mean... you bought ScotRail coffee? Fucking animal.
It was LNER
I humbly apologise.
In any case the LNER trains follow English law. Even after trundling past Lamberton Toll.
"If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field/ That is for ever England."
I don't think that is quite correct. I think the scottish social distancing rules applied but then changed at Berwick upon Tweed, or something like that. What I would say though, from observation on two different trips around Scotland this summer, is that the Scots were less enthusiastic about the Covid rules than their government.
i can only talk about my corner of Aberdeenshire, but masks are everywhere in the local shop and the two supermarkets I visit. Everyone I see at the bus stop near my place is masked up getting on and off. Experiences may differ in the central belt, but I've not been there since all this kicked off, so I wouldn't know.
I guess the good weather helped but I found it to be beautiful part of the world. Cycled from Dundee to Aberdeen along the coastal path. Rolling hills, long sandy beaches, quirky military installations etc. No midges. Mostly free of english tourists. Everyone I met was very friendly.
My son and his wife have just done the NC500 as their delayed honeymoon post there wedding in July in their converted campervan
Weather was mixed but in Applecross the rain lashed down and the wind howled rocking the campervan from side to side and needing ear plugs to go to sleep
Marginally better than a tent, but the scenery was fabulous, they traced his Mother's home in the war in Wick, and fell in love with the 'Heilan Coo's'
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
It’s not that simple
A proportion of people who catch COVID will, unfortunately, die as a result.
However if the health system is backed up with COVID cases then other operations will be postponed and a proportion of those will, unfortunately, result in people dying.
If you take the view that moat people will be exposed to COVID at some point then it makes more sense to try and spread the burden across a wider time period
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes. Because under normal circumstances ALL the filling stations are not ALL empty at a particular starting point, i.e. now, Saturday evening.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
Absolutely agreed. Time for the bosses of those companies to offer good pay and conditions, no more excuses.
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
I know 4 people with HGV licenses, none of whom drive HGVs for a living
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
I know 4 people with HGV licenses, none of whom drive HGVs for a living
Based on my observations today, I’d wager that anyone coming through Eurotunnel low on fuel who thought “I’ll fill up when I get back to the UK” has had a fairly stressful day.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes. Because under normal circumstances ALL the filling stations are not ALL empty at a particular starting point, i.e. now, Saturday evening.
They're not all empty now, some of them are empty now. And many fuel companies have already said they've scheduled extra deliveries now to compensate for the panic buying.
Funny that, how they can schedule extra now when supposedly according to those wanting to create panic they were unable to do what they were doing before?
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Sunday times is reporting that Essar and its refinery in Ellesmere Port is about to go bankrupt as it owes HMRC £220m
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
I do give a toss about people which is why I think the vulnerable who need protection should get the advice to wear a proper FFP3 mask that actually does the job instead of a cloth mask placebo.
As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷♂️
What is wrong with a placebo? I thought you were a libertarian?
If you're deliberately giving people a placebo, when there's a working and approved alternative available, without informing them its a placebo - then unless they've knowingly subscribed to a trial knowing a placebo is an option then that's not good ethics.
But nobody is deliberately giving anyone anything. It is personal choice.
Except people are giving people the misunderstanding that cloth masks work well. Rather than educate that FFP3 masks are what work well to protect the wearer.
Are they? And are people wearing masks to protect the wearer? That certainly isn't my motivation on the occasions I wear one. And from much of the testimony here quite a few others too. What about those Christian cross pendants? Or indeed any religious garb?
Saying that we will wear masks to protect antivaxxers is completely wrongheaded, we should be telling the antivaxxers "get your f***ing vaccine or get Covid".
But there you are again. It is absolutely none of your business what other people do with regard to masks, or why. Insulting folk who choose to wear a mask seems to be a remarkably common libertarian trait.
I'm not insulting folk who choose to wear a mask. They could wear a clove of garlic for all I care.
I'm insulting folk who think they can command others to wear a mask. Those nosy busybodies have it coming.
OK. I'll let it go. Sometimes you are a poster who gets under my skin occasionally. I think it may be because I either find myself in either strong agreement or strong disagreement with you. Very rarely in between. However, I am irked by the long line up of rugged, freedom loving posters who won't be told what to do by anyone at all, but are driven to a fury by the mere sight of other people in masks. And who assert freedom of choice, but are damned certain only one particular choice (theirs) is the morally superior, righteous and correct one. Of course they caveat it, but it reeks of the very puritanism they purport to condemn. No one should have to explain why they do or don't wear a mask. No one should be pilloried for their decision. There is no right or wrong. It is personal decision which no one else can fully appreciate the calculations or emotions behind it. It is the very essence of intolerance.
But I'm not irritated by others wearing masks. I'm content to let people decide for themselves.
I can think its the right decision to take the mask off while respecting people's right to choose to keep it on.
Libertarianism doesn't mean being devoid of opinions or thoughts on what is best. It is about letting everyone make their own thoughts, their own decisions and their own judgements.
I think masks are a bad idea under the circumstances. I think taking drugs are a bad idea, I think smoking is a bad idea, I think voting Labour is a bad idea. I don't do any of them. But I think if someone else wants to wear a mask, if someone else wants to take drugs, or if someone else wants to smoke and even if someone wants to vote for Jeremy Corbyn - all of that should be their choice if they make it.
What part of that is hard to understand?
As I said at the beginning, I may be conflating your views with those of others, for which I apologise.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
Or they all earned so much that they could afford to retire at 50...
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.
I would expect the Speaker to intervene if she repeats it in the HOC
What possessed her to think that is acceptable
I would imagine it was a reaction to when she did get upbraided for calling a Tory scum in the Commons about a year ago. She wants to be blunt, the party love it and I'm sure she believes it, and is not permitted to say it in the Chamber.
We know what the reaction is to such comments, a significant portion will say 'Well, she's not wrong' even when it happens in the Commons and many (though not all) people agree with the concept of somewhat restrained language in a deliberative assembly. The point may well have been made back then that if she wanted to make such blunt insults she is free to do it out of the Chamber, and I guess she is taking advantage of that. What are they going to do, sue her for defamation?
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Well I must admit I much preferred and valued the generally good governance we had from 1990-2015 to the shambles which we have had since we have "taken back control" and divided the country.
How is your first complaint of 'taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired' different to the taxation and pensions strategy governments followed from 1990 to 2015 ?
Back in 1990 the share of wealth owned by pensioners was far less than it is now. Increasing the state pension more quickly than wages at that time was a good policy, now it is not.
So was triple locking pensions at the same time as tripling student fees 'good policy' as well ?
Was there a point where pandering to oldies - increased NHS spending being another example - stopped being 'good policy' ?
Or did it just happen when the politicians doing it became those you didn't approve of ?
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
I wonder if Boris will legislate to impose a kind of minimum wage for HGV drivers. Or he might even nationalize the sector.
Before this crisis and I looked, if somebody told me lorry drivers can earn as little as £25-30k a year, I would have thought they were having a giraffe. For a job that requires serious training and responsibly, it seems completely out of whack with what you can earn doing a similar skilled blue collar job with far less anti-social hours e.g. any sort of properly qualified tradesman can earn more than that.
Woah! So Rayner does not hold back as she slates the “racist”, “homophobic” and “misogynistic” Tory “scum” in government who are operating a “banana republic” from Downing St.
I wonder what she really thinks! 9:13 PM · Sep 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone"
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes. Because under normal circumstances ALL the filling stations are not ALL empty at a particular starting point, i.e. now, Saturday evening.
So the equation hasn't changed - fuel in will equal fuel consumed.
In fact in the very short term fuel consumption might fall either through nervous people putting off unnecessary travel or some unfortunates not being able to.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
Brexiteers who claim to be in favour of smashing the status quo and letting new systems emerge from the rubble seem quite oblivious to what actually happens when the equilibrium collapses...
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
I wonder if Boris will legislate to impose a kind of minimum wage for HGV drivers. Or he might even nationalize the sector.
What does better conditions mean in this case? The most immediate I can think of is fewer hours, but that could end up making rather a circular problem if applied back to existing workers.
I’m a tad sick and tired of people seeing everything through the brexit prism. Things go wrong - blame brexit and brexiters. Things go ok - brexiters say “told you so”. Round and round we go
What's gone OK?
Vaccines Taking back control of our laws Vaccines Taking back control of our money Vaccines Taking back control of our borders Vaccines Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
On money, they are taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired. On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel. On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
On money we get the government's we elect now. I oppose the tax regime of our government and if an opposition party comes up with better policies I can vote for it - that wasn't the case pre-Brexit for money spent by the EU.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Well I must admit I much preferred and valued the generally good governance we had from 1990-2015 to the shambles which we have had since we have "taken back control" and divided the country.
How is your first complaint of 'taxing the poor workers to pay for the rich retired' different to the taxation and pensions strategy governments followed from 1990 to 2015 ?
Back in 1990 the share of wealth owned by pensioners was far less than it is now. Increasing the state pension more quickly than wages at that time was a good policy, now it is not.
So was triple locking pensions at the same time as tripling student fees 'good policy' as well ?
Was there a point where pandering to oldies - increased NHS spending being another example - stopped being 'good policy' ?
Or did it just happen when the politicians doing it became those you didn't approve of ?
25 years of policies is a lot to go through and of course plenty I didnt like over that time, especially the sustained QE environment at the end of that period that rewarded assets over work. In favour of NHS spending increases, dont mind some graduate contribution but not anything like 9k per year.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
I've had to drive/be driven to A&E twice in the last two weeks (don't ask. Horses.) Both times, a choice of drive yourself, or wait 3 hours for an ambulance. No fuel, no self drive option. Presiding over a fuel panic puts the government in breach of its primary duty to keep the citizens safe.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes, because on average let's say 10% of cars at any given time are only 10% full, 10% are 20% full, 10% 30% full etc. Because of panic buying many of those cars are 100% full. That's where the extra fuel has disappeared to.
How extraordinary not to be able to grasp that point.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
Many retired, some now deceased, some posting on PB all day from their Mum's basement.
Oh and by the way, these one million, dead or alive drivers can't just jump into a cab and drive, they need retraining, and their driver CPC will be out of date too. And if they are former tanker drivers is their ADR still current?
Before this crisis and I looked, if somebody told me lorry drivers can earn as little as £25-30k a year, I would have thought they were having a giraffe. For a job that requires serious training and responsibly, it seems completely out of whack with what you can earn doing a similar skilled blue collar job with far less anti-social hours e.g. any sort of properly qualified tradesman can earn more than that.
Even accounting for variations around the country I really have very little sense of how much particular professions earn on average. How much they 'should' earn is hard, since outside the really high paying professions I'm likely to think most should get more than they do.
I tend to think of around 30k as 'decent', so if it seems like a particularly tough job I think it should be north of that at the least, but there's no sense to it.
What does better conditions mean in this case? The most immediate I can think of is fewer hours, but that could end up making rather a circular problem if applied back to existing workers.
They have already allowed longer hours to try and ease the problem
If there's a million people with HGV licences who aren't driving HGVs the job must either have been really crap and/or poorly paid before, since that is a lot of people to move on and find better jobs organically.
I know 4 people with HGV licenses, none of whom drive HGVs for a living
Would you drive a lorry for £25-30k a year....
I have friends in America who drive for UPS on over $100,000 per year. That's not unusual there - and no they're not in a union.
The way people think that others can or should be expected to fill jobs for poor wages they wouldn't do themselves at that rate is ridiculous.
Supply and demand should set wages - if that means that a trucker gets paid more than an MP so be it. What's wrong in that?
Supply and demand would probably mean MPs pay rates come down though to be fair. There seems to be a shortage of people wanting to work as truck drivers at those pay rates - but there never seems to be a shortage of candidates to become an MP. In fact that seems to be massively oversubscribed for all parties so that rate ought to be able to come down at a free market rate.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
Many retired, some now deceased, some posting on PB all day from their Mum's basement.
Oh and by the way, these one million, dead or alive drivers can't just jump into a cab and drive, they need retraining, and their driver CPC will be out of date too. And if they are former tanker drivers is their ADR still current?
Hope your TLA license is in good order after that post!
"Angela Rayner amongst a home crowd at the NW reception is heckled by someone who shouts “I think you can challenge him” and she replies: “I think you’ve had all the wine I’ve not had. I have wine envy, mate, but I’ll catch up.” https://t.co/lqf0QJfGud"
Wine? That will destroy her image among working class northern beer drinkers…
She's just lost my vote.
She’s trying to win it back:
BREAKING: Angela Rayner says Downing Street are “racist”, “homophobic” Tory “scum”
Sigh....do Labour actually want to win? Just screaming racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc, isn't going to win any new fans.
Consider the timing - who is the gallery being played to?
My dad used to be a conservative activist in the 1980's/90's and he took us out campaigning on rough Council estates. We used to get chased out by dogs and thugs, bricks through the car window, etc.
He said to me: 'this is what happens if the socialists get in to power'.
Before this crisis and I looked, if somebody told me lorry drivers can earn as little as £25-30k a year, I would have thought they were having a giraffe. For a job that requires serious training and responsibly, it seems completely out of whack with what you can earn doing a similar skilled blue collar job with far less anti-social hours e.g. any sort of properly qualified tradesman can earn more than that.
I'm somewhat baffled/amused by the breathless reports that Tesco offers a £1k signing on bonus for new HGV drivers.
I mean a thousand quid, its not luxury cruise / deposit on a house sort of money is it.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
How many are of those and your source
There are only a finite number of tankers and drivers. Drivers hours are also an issue.
It will be physically impossible to restock at the rate you and Philip Thompson assume
But the people filling up today will not be filling up tomorrow and likely not next week either.
So all what happens is some fuel purchases have been brought forward not that the amount being consumed has changed.
Ffs.
When we panic bought in 2000 we all had full tanks too. As a high miler I was left high and dry after a few days. Most who use a tank every three weeks were not inconvenienced past their initial bout of queueing. The same is true today.
No we haven't got a blockade of terminals, but like I keep saying, replenishing empty petrol stations is not without its challenges. Namely the numbers of tankers, drivers and driver's hours available.
I am sure unlike 2000 we will all laugh it off this time and Johnson will increase his polling lead.
Ultimately the amount getting delivered by tankers to the filling stations equals the amount being used by the population.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
Yes, because on average let's say 10% of cars at any given time are only 10% full, 10% are 20% full, 10% 30% full etc. Because of panic buying many of those cars are 100% full. That's where the extra fuel has disappeared to.
How extraordinary not to be able to grasp that point.
Indeed which means that for the next few weeks there'll be (all else being equal) less demand than normal on the system since its going to take a while to get down from 100% back to 10% again.
And the supplies going to the forecourts next week are going to be more than average because the chains have laid on extra routes in response to the panic buying.
So lower demand + extra supply. Doesn't take an econometrician to work that one out.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
I wonder if Boris will legislate to impose a kind of minimum wage for HGV drivers. Or he might even nationalize the sector.
What does better conditions mean in this case? The most immediate I can think of is fewer hours, but that could end up making rather a circular problem if applied back to existing workers.
Yes, if Boris's instructions to employers don't actually result in any new recruitment, then the cost of keeping the status quo is going to soar. Boris needs to be careful here or he could devastate an entire sector.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Even if you, mask-free, cough all over me and it results in my untimely demise?
Nice!
Personally I would view that as discourteous, so choose to wear a mask where appropriate. Although having just worn one for 10.5 hours on a flight I can say that I very much dislike them.
But that is very different to compulsion which should only happen in extraordinary circumstances
Before this crisis and I looked, if somebody told me lorry drivers can earn as little as £25-30k a year, I would have thought they were having a giraffe. For a job that requires serious training and responsibly, it seems completely out of whack with what you can earn doing a similar skilled blue collar job with far less anti-social hours e.g. any sort of properly qualified tradesman can earn more than that.
I'm somewhat baffled/amused by the breathless reports that Tesco offers a £1k signing on bonus for new HGV drivers.
I mean a thousand quid, its not luxury cruise / deposit on a house sort of money is it.
It might as well be for people whose account drops to zero or below around the time of their current payday. Though HGV drivers may not be among those in that situation.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
I've had to drive/be driven to A&E twice in the last two weeks (don't ask. Horses.) Both times, a choice of drive yourself, or wait 3 hours for an ambulance. No fuel, no self drive option. Presiding over a fuel panic puts the government in breach of its primary duty to keep the citizens safe.
You could ride there?
Well, yes, but that’s on the problem, rather than solution, side of the equation.
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
One million former drivers with HGV licences. One million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
Many retired, some now deceased, some posting on PB all day from their Mum's basement.
Oh and by the way, these one million, dead or alive drivers can't just jump into a cab and drive, they need retraining, and their driver CPC will be out of date too. And if they are former tanker drivers is their ADR still current?
I expect out of one million there will be enough to tempt back into the job with the right incentives, and I understand some regulations are to be delayed but that is not my field
And for the avoidance of doubt I have never possessed a HGV licence
Comments
Brian Madison, Chairman of the Petrol Retailers’ Association tells Sky: “I think this situation is going to get worse before it gets better.”
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1441744455464222724
What's THAT position called in yoga?
https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1441824441143644166
No?
What possessed her to think that is acceptable
Would you like to apologise for your frankly ridiculous comment. Have you been on the vino as well?
And by his own admission it is his lifetime mission
Taking back control of our laws
Vaccines
Taking back control of our money
Vaccines
Taking back control of our borders
Vaccines
Taking back control of our courts
And vaccines.
@REWearmouth
Woah! So Rayner does not hold back as she slates the “racist”, “homophobic” and “misogynistic” Tory “scum” in government who are operating a “banana republic” from Downing St.
I wonder what she really thinks!
9:13 PM · Sep 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone"
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1441858328468942851
(What’s annoying me is that that was true, for me, having just 25% of a tank left, but nobody will ever believe me.)
(•I am joking)
On borders, we sent all the foreign drivers away and now hope they come back. And are in a losing spat with France over the channel.
On courts, we don't fund them properly so they have massive delays, which then reduces our ability to deal with borders, along with delayed, frustrated and cancelled justice.
If you think this is taking back control it shows you live in a world of slogans and soundbites rather than reality.
And this is how you do it.
However, I am irked by the long line up of rugged, freedom loving posters who won't be told what to do by anyone at all, but are driven to a fury by the mere sight of other people in masks.
And who assert freedom of choice, but are damned certain only one particular choice (theirs) is the morally superior, righteous and correct one.
Of course they caveat it, but it reeks of the very puritanism they purport to condemn.
No one should have to explain why they do or don't wear a mask. No one should be pilloried for their decision. There is no right or wrong. It is personal decision which no one else can fully appreciate the calculations or emotions behind it.
It is the very essence of intolerance.
On borders - we do not "hope" they come back. We can now control the quantity of visas offered which can go to whoever meets the specs from anywhere on the planet equally and not simply say [predominantly white] Europeans are OK regardless but f**k everyone else.
On courts - again if you don't like it, you can elect a different government.
Taking back control doesn't mean we get good governance. It just means we get the government we elect.
Now is there any reason to think that either side of the equation has changed ?
I mean, people repeat the same quotes from Boris from sometimes quite long ago, but it is hard to argue that on a personal level he is racist given race appears not to factor into his appointments in any way, so it must be about racist policy, which even if true is a harder charge to make stick. For instance, is Downing Street motivated by racism, simply ignorant, or through lack of care enacting racist policies?
Sure, conference week is going to be the time to break out the greatest hits (people love a good 'scum' line, though I suppose Tories are more likely to talk about Trots instead) and not engage in detail (if parties can avoid it) or nuanced attacks, but it takes a lot for a charge of racism and homophobia stick, and do we think more people will start to think that of Boris and No. 10 than already do, or is that feeling maxed out?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7d386c68-1e05-11ec-9699-f7cb5224a0e1?shareToken=4948358e7348527731903f3dc67b88bd
Quite a raft of measures to be announced to address the fuel crisis including letters to one million former drivers with HGV licences with incentives including higher wages and conditions
Boris to announce he wants higher pay for the sector
Also visa quota scheme to allow 5,500 agricultural workers to held the agricultural industry deal with Christmas
I can think its the right decision to take the mask off while respecting people's right to choose to keep it on.
Libertarianism doesn't mean being devoid of opinions or thoughts on what is best. It is about letting everyone make their own thoughts, their own decisions and their own judgements.
I think masks are a bad idea under the circumstances. I think taking drugs are a bad idea, I think smoking is a bad idea, I think voting Labour is a bad idea. I don't do any of them. But I think if someone else wants to wear a mask, if someone else wants to take drugs, or if someone else wants to smoke and even if someone wants to vote for Jeremy Corbyn - all of that should be their choice if they make it.
What part of that is hard to understand?
One fucking million.
You hear that @RochdalePioneers one million.
All week we've been told 300,000 and the real figure is 1,300,000.
You want to fill the vacancies in the sector then there is a simple fix: pay them more. Now stop pratting around.
Seems an odd attack to me.
https://annemckinnell.com/2018/04/29/heilan-coo-isle-of-skye-scotland/
A proportion of people who catch COVID will, unfortunately, die as a result.
However if the health system is backed up with COVID cases then other operations will be postponed and a proportion of those will, unfortunately, result in people dying.
If you take the view that moat people will be exposed to COVID at some point then it makes more sense to try and spread the burden across a wider time period
But you know that.
Funny that, how they can schedule extra now when supposedly according to those wanting to create panic they were unable to do what they were doing before?
We know what the reaction is to such comments, a significant portion will say 'Well, she's not wrong' even when it happens in the Commons and many (though not all) people agree with the concept of somewhat restrained language in a deliberative assembly. The point may well have been made back then that if she wanted to make such blunt insults she is free to do it out of the Chamber, and I guess she is taking advantage of that. What are they going to do, sue her for defamation?
I had to wind it back to be sure
Was there a point where pandering to oldies - increased NHS spending being another example - stopped being 'good policy' ?
Or did it just happen when the politicians doing it became those you didn't approve of ?
In fact in the very short term fuel consumption might fall either through nervous people putting off unnecessary travel or some unfortunates not being able to.
How extraordinary not to be able to grasp that point.
Oh and by the way, these one million, dead or alive drivers can't just jump into a cab and drive, they need retraining, and their driver CPC will be out of date too. And if they are former tanker drivers is their ADR still current?
I tend to think of around 30k as 'decent', so if it seems like a particularly tough job I think it should be north of that at the least, but there's no sense to it.
The way people think that others can or should be expected to fill jobs for poor wages they wouldn't do themselves at that rate is ridiculous.
Supply and demand should set wages - if that means that a trucker gets paid more than an MP so be it. What's wrong in that?
Supply and demand would probably mean MPs pay rates come down though to be fair. There seems to be a shortage of people wanting to work as truck drivers at those pay rates - but there never seems to be a shortage of candidates to become an MP. In fact that seems to be massively oversubscribed for all parties so that rate ought to be able to come down at a free market rate.
He said to me: 'this is what happens if the socialists get in to power'.
I mean a thousand quid, its not luxury cruise / deposit on a house sort of money is it.
And the supplies going to the forecourts next week are going to be more than average because the chains have laid on extra routes in response to the panic buying.
So lower demand + extra supply. Doesn't take an econometrician to work that one out.
But that is very different to compulsion which should only happen in extraordinary circumstances
And for the avoidance of doubt I have never possessed a HGV licence