The key thing is all the main parties are committed to getting people double vaccinated and the vast majority of MPs across the chamber have been double vaccinated.
Once you have been double jabbed it should be more personal choice if you want to wear a mask in the indoor space of the Commons, it is no surprise Labour MPs are more strict on mask wearing while Conservative MPs take a more relaxed view after vaccination as Labour is more the party of top down state direction and mandates
Indeed. The party of the brave and the party of Covid quislings.
Boris’s team feared Biden could feel “buyer’s remorse” over AUKUS due to French “brouhaha”. But at start of Oval meet he declared his support. Later agreed French can’t join + discussed widening pact. “F****** hell that went well” said a UK figure as they left.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
On the German election, I reckon another grand coalition but with the SPD having the top dog.
If the parties are tied not impossible, which would be quite funny as there would be basically no change in government after all the hype other than Scholz replaces Merkel as Chancellor and Laschet replaces Scholz as Finance Minister and Deputy.
If the SPD are clearly ahead though I expect the Union to go into opposition
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
Off topic, I am tucking in to the second half of a very tasty pork stir fry we made yesterday. Of course the food purist may object to the use of macaroni in place of noodles and the use of balsamic*, but bugger that - it is yummy.
So often, the second portion seems to be tastier than the first. Spending a night in the fridge enhances the flavour.
*Yes, we still have three to choose from.
I've never even heard of stir fry macaroni, that sounds yummy.
Do you need to parboil it first? Or straight to the stir fry?
Macaroni cooked as normal in boiling water, drained and used as a bed for the stir fry mix.
We do sometimes use tagliatelle in our own stir fry if the proper stuff is not available, but Mrs C grizzles a bit as she prefers the proper rice noodles. Anyway we have a mutton (not lamb) curry cooking (second half of last night's stew with the last of Mrs C's homegrown potatoes).
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
The key thing is all the main parties are committed to getting people double vaccinated and the vast majority of MPs across the chamber have been double vaccinated.
Once you have been double jabbed it should be more personal choice if you want to wear a mask in the indoor space of the Commons, it is no surprise Labour MPs are more strict on mask wearing while Conservative MPs take a more relaxed view after vaccination as Labour is more the party of top down state direction and mandates
But the top down state direction is that it is personal choice.
Not from Labour it seems, see London where Khan has kept the mask wearing mandate on the tube as Mayor.
We have been double jabbed but both had to wear our masks on the underground this afternoon therefore
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
Still a grand coalition but with Laschet as chancellor.
Remember too 2005 where Merkel was heading for a landslide early on but then chancellor Schroder slashed her lead and after polling day there ended up being the first CDU/CSU and SPD grand coalition and not the CDU/CSU and FDP majority she had hoped for.
The Union are pushing hard amongst centrist voters fear of Linke joining the government if the SPD win big which could be enough to cut the SPD lead to nearly nothing tomorrow and force another grand coalition. Though still probably with Scholz as chancellor
Boris’s team feared Biden could feel “buyer’s remorse” over AUKUS due to French “brouhaha”. But at start of Oval meet he declared his support. Later agreed French can’t join + discussed widening pact. “F****** hell that went well” said a UK figure as they left.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
There is no way the FDP will join a government with Linke, the Greens would be the third party
Historically the FDP has been willing to go into coalition with just about anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbin or the left of Martin Bormann. Indeed, they are THE quintessential Party of Government for the Bundesrepublik.
No doubt they'd prefer NOT to have Linke as governmental partners, but also doubt that "no way" correctly describes the FDP position.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
There is no way the FDP will join a government with Linke, the Greens would be the third party
Historically the FDP has been willing to go into coalition with just about anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbin or the left of Martin Bormann. Indeed, they are THE quintessential Party of Government for the Bundesrepublik.
No doubt they'd prefer NOT to have Linke as governmental partners, but also doubt that "no way" correctly describes the FDP position.
Except Linke are not right of Corbyn.
They will go into government with the Union or the SPD or at a push the Greens, they would not go into government with the anti business and ex Stalinist Linke
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
Is there a market on when Merkel actually goes? Could be quite fun.
If it takes as long as last time, she'll still be there when the French take over the European Council Presidency, so she could still get in the way of Macron's plans.
Boris’s team feared Biden could feel “buyer’s remorse” over AUKUS due to French “brouhaha”. But at start of Oval meet he declared his support. Later agreed French can’t join + discussed widening pact. “F****** hell that went well” said a UK figure as they left.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
Shame to drop 2 points, but still clear at the top of the table and Brentford deserve a point. Well done them. 👏
Although Brighton can now go top with a win at Palace on Monday. What odds could we have got on that? Shaping up to be a good season. No one looking outstanding. Some surprisingly competitive.
Danny Altmann @Daltmann10 · 6h I’m now officially in post-Brexit wild-West. No HGV drivers, no petrol: queued most of the morning for petrol. Got near the front and they said none left. Man behind me was furious and started punching the guard. Became a melee of 8-10 men on the ground, punching and kicking
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
Big news: after the government conceded a judicial review application which I am acting in (see above) the hardship scheme is now in place so that people who cannot afford hotel quarantine can have fees waived or reduced
I guess the next fight will be over whether journeys were necessary against FCO advice....
It would be nice if SKS called out this nonsense.
It might be that SKS has put it in the too hard basket. Most voters won't know what he is talking about and for those who are paying attention, HMG has just announced new exemptions on either medical or compassionate grounds.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls
Regarding those unable to be jabbed for medical reasons, FFP3 masks will protect them. No reason for the other 99% of the population to wear a face covering.
While I would yield to nobody in my disdain for the mask fetish some people seem to have bought into, I would say I don’t think I would ask a pregnant woman to wear an FFP3 mask. I don’t find it terribly easy with full lung capacity.
They can shield, or wear an FFP3 mask, or take their chances.
Same as anyone else.
EDIT: Oh and they should be vaccinated. The vaccine is available to pregnant women already.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I do not disagree with that but as I said before HMG's opposition has decided to fight it's own internal battles nobody outside cares about, and is giving Boris a free pass
I do expect Boris will suffer in the next few polls but then at this time in the cycle and with this crisis labour should be out of sight
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
But two years ago we as a society couldn't give a monkey's about the risk of spreading flu in crowded settings. Now that vaccination has reduced the threat from Covid to roughly match that from flu, why should we take measures that were considered unnecessary in the past?
People may have reassessed their willingness to bear the costs of such a cavalier attitude to even the flu as a result of rethinking how much they can unburden the NHS by taking a few additional precautions.
I don't say I am doing that. but I'm not surprised it would be advocated.
Shame to drop 2 points, but still clear at the top of the table and Brentford deserve a point. Well done them. 👏
Although Brighton can now go top with a win at Palace on Monday. What odds could we have got on that? Shaping up to be a good season. No one looking outstanding. Some surprisingly competitive.
Leicester having a poorish start. Good going forward, but Evans and Fofana out as our two best centrebacks is leaving us far too leaky. Vardy looking great today, apart from the own goal.
Burnley look relegation fodder this year. Cornet was their best player and went off with a hamstring not long after his goal.
Regarding those unable to be jabbed for medical reasons, FFP3 masks will protect them. No reason for the other 99% of the population to wear a face covering.
While I would yield to nobody in my disdain for the mask fetish some people seem to have bought into, I would say I don’t think I would ask a pregnant woman to wear an FFP3 mask. I don’t find it terribly easy with full lung capacity.
They can shield, or wear an FFP3 mask, or take their chances.
Same as anyone else.
EDIT: Oh and they should be vaccinated. The vaccine is available to pregnant women already.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
I only agree with you on fuel, Philip. I'm sure this is a fake shortage. Reminiscent of Toilet rolls in 2020. The shortages of food and other materials etc is another matter.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
I've had to drive/be driven to A&E twice in the last two weeks (don't ask. Horses.) Both times, a choice of drive yourself, or wait 3 hours for an ambulance. No fuel, no self drive option. Presiding over a fuel panic puts the government in breach of its primary duty to keep the citizens safe.
Sky suggesting Merkel may still be Chancellor for some time to come
How?
Apparently the election is unlikely to provide a clear government and coalition talks may well extend into 22
oic
I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll? Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls
Yes. I am wrong. Goddamn reading, recalling and reciting a fact without checking. Keep this up and I'll be on the front bench. Although admitting I am wrong probably has me barred.
Regarding those unable to be jabbed for medical reasons, FFP3 masks will protect them. No reason for the other 99% of the population to wear a face covering.
While I would yield to nobody in my disdain for the mask fetish some people seem to have bought into, I would say I don’t think I would ask a pregnant woman to wear an FFP3 mask. I don’t find it terribly easy with full lung capacity.
They can shield, or wear an FFP3 mask, or take their chances.
Same as anyone else.
EDIT: Oh and they should be vaccinated. The vaccine is available to pregnant women already.
What a pompous arsehole you are.
I am sure there was a poster with a similar name this morning decrying those who get easily offended.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?
In which case the first panickers spending 2 mins to fill up are surely rational as well as 2 mins is less stressful than 2 hours with the potential for failure and or a punch up at the end?
Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?
In which case the first panickers spending 2 mins to fill up are surely rational as well as 2 mins is less stressful than 2 hours with the potential for failure and or a punch up at the end?
Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?
QTWAIN.
If you have half a tank of petrol and that's going to get you through another week then there's no reason whatsoever to top that tank up to full now. Because within a few days the panic buying morons tanks will all be full and the petrol stations will have been refuelled.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
I wonder how many of them have sneaked out to fill up and not admitted it.
I went filled up yesterday as I was pretty low and need my car tomorrow. But I wouldn't have bothered if there had been much of a queue.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
I wonder how many of them have sneaked out to fill up and not admitted it.
They are panic buying morons. I am just nipping out to be on the safe side.
Anyone know what time the Joshua fight is likely to actually start? Weighing up whether it is worth paying for, and thinking not if it clashes with the Ryder Cup, although that does depend on Europe hanging in there.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
The hilarity must be off the scale, but does your car remain stationary in a distinctively ribtickling way if it is out of fuel because of panic buyers rather than let's say tanker driver shortages, or is the result indistinguishable?
Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.
Good
This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result
Yeah, the Sainsbury's near my parents has got rid of it all and all of their one way systems. I wish they'd do that for the one near me. It was almost like going into a time warp because almost none of the people or staff were wearing masks. Outer London has got this figured out. This is a very wealthy middle class part of it too, I just think people have stopped giving a fuck. Only a few virtue signallers on here say they will keep wearing them but I suspect the reality is quite different.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.
This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.
Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
COVID is endemic. You're talking about wearing a mask for the rest of your life. It isn't ever going away. We're already through the pandemic, you're the Japanese soldier in 1970 holding out on a tiny island thinking the war isn't over.
Bless. Once we have completed roll-out of vaccinations then transmission rates will drop.
The sad reality is that the UK has fallen well behind with vaccinations because people refuse to get it, has an endemic transmission rate significantly ahead of neighbouring countries, and let have the most aggressive "ditch masks and social distancing" views of anyone.
We've completed rollout of vaccines. It's done. Everyone who wants a vaccine can walk up and get one. What are you proposing? That the army (sans drivers, of course) march down the street and forcibly break down doors and jab this people who refused?
You're fighting a war that we've already lost/won depending on your perspective.
COVID is endemic. That's where we are. Deal with it.
Then we will have to accept the long term underling load on the NHS. On us being red listed by countries we want to travel to. On not getting clear of this when others do.
We could have got more people jabbed. Our neighbours managed it. Then again their leadership told people get the jab or else. Here Beaker told people it was over before it was, and so we're stuck with 30-40k new cases a day.
Ironically the one card he had left was to quote Kermit the Frog at the UN vaccine passports. I'm against these in principle, but they would have been effective in getting younger jab avoiders to get one.
Honestly, you're living in a complete dreamworld. None of the stuff you say is happening. Who cares if there's 30-40k cases per day? You've got yourself into a position where you're so far gone with opposing the government that you instinctively disagree with everything even when they're right. On going back to the old normal they are absolutely right. You want the delta cases now when there is high latent immunity and no NHS crisis, not in November and December with lower immunity and the annual NHS crisis.
Lots of the experts said as much when they supported the July 19th final restrictions being lifted.
Where we're at is unvaccinated people getting sick with COVID. That's a choice they made. The sooner all of those people are through the funnel the better.
With hindsight, I think the government got the delay to the 21st June reopening, and then the reopening on 19th July, correct. Probably not perfect, but correct enough. Certainly the prophecies of doom about reopening don't appear to have come to pass.
However: I wish people wouldn't be so blase about only the unvaccinated becoming sick. As far as I'm aware that isn't true, and we still have lots of people dying daily. We couldn't continue with the restrictions, but neither are we out of the woods yet.
I think the problem is that actually we are never going to be out of the woods. This is probably about as good as it is ever going to get but with a seasonal cycle imposed over the top. Just like seasonal flu. As such people have to decide whether they are going to make permanent changes to their lifestyle - masks, avoiding certain events etc - or if they are just going to accept that we have had one more small risk added to the many that already existed and that they want to get on with their lives without constantly worrying about about all the many things that may bring them down.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.
Good
This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result
Sitting behind a screen was all the rage in the 80's. Betting shops, job centres, banks, cinema ticket booths all had them. Then, in the 90's they disappeared in the main. Why? Cos they were customer unfeiendly.
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.
This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.
Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
And let's not forget that the police did feck all about those illegally blocking the refineries and fuel depots.
Strangely, when it is environmental protesters outside those same facilities they are straight in the back of the van.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Even if you, mask-free, cough all over me and it results in my untimely demise?
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
The key thing is all the main parties are committed to getting people double vaccinated and the vast majority of MPs across the chamber have been double vaccinated.
Once you have been double jabbed it should be more personal choice if you want to wear a mask in the indoor space of the Commons, it is no surprise Labour MPs are more strict on mask wearing while Conservative MPs take a more relaxed view after vaccination as Labour is more the party of top down state direction and mandates
Quite so. You wouldn't get a Conservative government giving 'top down state direction and mandates', would you? Wonder what's been going on for the last 18 months?
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
COVID is endemic. You're talking about wearing a mask for the rest of your life. It isn't ever going away. We're already through the pandemic, you're the Japanese soldier in 1970 holding out on a tiny island thinking the war isn't over.
Bless. Once we have completed roll-out of vaccinations then transmission rates will drop.
The sad reality is that the UK has fallen well behind with vaccinations because people refuse to get it, has an endemic transmission rate significantly ahead of neighbouring countries, and let have the most aggressive "ditch masks and social distancing" views of anyone.
We've completed rollout of vaccines. It's done. Everyone who wants a vaccine can walk up and get one. What are you proposing? That the army (sans drivers, of course) march down the street and forcibly break down doors and jab this people who refused?
You're fighting a war that we've already lost/won depending on your perspective.
COVID is endemic. That's where we are. Deal with it.
Then we will have to accept the long term underling load on the NHS. On us being red listed by countries we want to travel to. On not getting clear of this when others do.
We could have got more people jabbed. Our neighbours managed it. Then again their leadership told people get the jab or else. Here Beaker told people it was over before it was, and so we're stuck with 30-40k new cases a day.
Ironically the one card he had left was to quote Kermit the Frog at the UN vaccine passports. I'm against these in principle, but they would have been effective in getting younger jab avoiders to get one.
Honestly, you're living in a complete dreamworld. None of the stuff you say is happening. Who cares if there's 30-40k cases per day? You've got yourself into a position where you're so far gone with opposing the government that you instinctively disagree with everything even when they're right. On going back to the old normal they are absolutely right. You want the delta cases now when there is high latent immunity and no NHS crisis, not in November and December with lower immunity and the annual NHS crisis.
Lots of the experts said as much when they supported the July 19th final restrictions being lifted.
Where we're at is unvaccinated people getting sick with COVID. That's a choice they made. The sooner all of those people are through the funnel the better.
With hindsight, I think the government got the delay to the 21st June reopening, and then the reopening on 19th July, correct. Probably not perfect, but correct enough. Certainly the prophecies of doom about reopening don't appear to have come to pass.
However: I wish people wouldn't be so blase about only the unvaccinated becoming sick. As far as I'm aware that isn't true, and we still have lots of people dying daily. We couldn't continue with the restrictions, but neither are we out of the woods yet.
I think the problem is that actually we are never going to be out of the woods. This is probably about as good as it is ever going to get but with a seasonal cycle imposed over the top. Just like seasonal flu. As such people have to decide whether they are going to make permanent changes to their lifestyle - masks, avoiding certain events etc - or if they are just going to accept that we have had one more small risk added to the many that already existed and that they want to get on with their lives without constantly worrying about about all the many things that may bring them down.
Absolutely right: as you are, quite often
Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power. As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me
Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
Tory MPs and the loons on the Tube/buses are simply exerting their precious human right to spread the virus to the vulnerable and elderly. That's if they don't think it's a hoax and if they don't think the vaccine gives you the virus and takes control of your mind! Sad and selfish morons.
Do you have any feel whether there will be another fishing explosion in Jersey next week?
I see that the "extended transition period" seems to be at its end on Sept 30, and the Jersey fishing authorities seem to be leaving it to the night before to hand out its 30 day notices, and the French Govt is setting up it's soapbox.
Can we expect more throwing out of toys and blood-curdling threats from Mons. Macron? Or is this going to get resolved by Jersey playing doormat, or will they take the opportunity to have a non-destructive-of-the-seabed licensing regime, and enforce it?
Tory MPs and the loons on the Tube/buses are simply exerting their precious human right to spread the virus to the vulnerable and elderly. That's if they don't think it's a hoax and if they don't think the vaccine gives you the virus and takes control of your mind! Sad and selfish morons.
You are the loon if you think we shoudl all wear a mask for ever and a day
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
Regarding those unable to be jabbed for medical reasons, FFP3 masks will protect them. No reason for the other 99% of the population to wear a face covering.
While I would yield to nobody in my disdain for the mask fetish some people seem to have bought into, I would say I don’t think I would ask a pregnant woman to wear an FFP3 mask. I don’t find it terribly easy with full lung capacity.
They can shield, or wear an FFP3 mask, or take their chances.
Same as anyone else.
EDIT: Oh and they should be vaccinated. The vaccine is available to pregnant women already.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
COVID is endemic. You're talking about wearing a mask for the rest of your life. It isn't ever going away. We're already through the pandemic, you're the Japanese soldier in 1970 holding out on a tiny island thinking the war isn't over.
Bless. Once we have completed roll-out of vaccinations then transmission rates will drop.
The sad reality is that the UK has fallen well behind with vaccinations because people refuse to get it, has an endemic transmission rate significantly ahead of neighbouring countries, and let have the most aggressive "ditch masks and social distancing" views of anyone.
We've completed rollout of vaccines. It's done. Everyone who wants a vaccine can walk up and get one. What are you proposing? That the army (sans drivers, of course) march down the street and forcibly break down doors and jab this people who refused?
You're fighting a war that we've already lost/won depending on your perspective.
COVID is endemic. That's where we are. Deal with it.
Then we will have to accept the long term underling load on the NHS. On us being red listed by countries we want to travel to. On not getting clear of this when others do.
We could have got more people jabbed. Our neighbours managed it. Then again their leadership told people get the jab or else. Here Beaker told people it was over before it was, and so we're stuck with 30-40k new cases a day.
Ironically the one card he had left was to quote Kermit the Frog at the UN vaccine passports. I'm against these in principle, but they would have been effective in getting younger jab avoiders to get one.
Honestly, you're living in a complete dreamworld. None of the stuff you say is happening. Who cares if there's 30-40k cases per day? You've got yourself into a position where you're so far gone with opposing the government that you instinctively disagree with everything even when they're right. On going back to the old normal they are absolutely right. You want the delta cases now when there is high latent immunity and no NHS crisis, not in November and December with lower immunity and the annual NHS crisis.
Lots of the experts said as much when they supported the July 19th final restrictions being lifted.
Where we're at is unvaccinated people getting sick with COVID. That's a choice they made. The sooner all of those people are through the funnel the better.
With hindsight, I think the government got the delay to the 21st June reopening, and then the reopening on 19th July, correct. Probably not perfect, but correct enough. Certainly the prophecies of doom about reopening don't appear to have come to pass.
However: I wish people wouldn't be so blase about only the unvaccinated becoming sick. As far as I'm aware that isn't true, and we still have lots of people dying daily. We couldn't continue with the restrictions, but neither are we out of the woods yet.
I think the problem is that actually we are never going to be out of the woods. This is probably about as good as it is ever going to get but with a seasonal cycle imposed over the top. Just like seasonal flu. As such people have to decide whether they are going to make permanent changes to their lifestyle - masks, avoiding certain events etc - or if they are just going to accept that we have had one more small risk added to the many that already existed and that they want to get on with their lives without constantly worrying about about all the many things that may bring them down.
Absolutely right: as you are, quite often
Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power. As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me
Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
Yes indeed
London is certainly not going Puritan. It's rocking again tonight - have just been out
But I do worry about the small towns and cities, around the UK, which are somewhat older and more prone to caution. This is not condescension, most of my family live in place like this
We have to accept we have a new endemic respiratory virus which will probably shorten life expectancy by a few months, for a decade or two. We have really good vaccines, but they aren't perfect - yet. Although they will get better, as will the treatments
There it is. The young will be fine, the healthy will probably be fine, fat people should REALLY lose weight, the old are vulnerable, but not much more vulnerable than they were
We all die. Your chances of dying in any given year have increased by 0.1% (or whatever). It is no cause to upend society.
However, ON TOPIC I think we should rightly adopt the Asian courtesy that if you have a suspected cold or the Flu, you wear a mask TO PROTECT THOSE AROUND YOU. It is remarkable we don't do this already
BTW, they finished counting votes yesterday, Friday, in Canada re: 2021 Federal General Election; so far no recounts requested.
Final tally:
Liberals 159 seats (+2 vs 2019) 32.6% vote share (-0.5% vs 2019) Conservatives 119 (-2) 33.7% (-0.6%) Bloc Québécois 33 (+1) 7.6% (-) New Democrats 25 (+1) 17.8% (+1.8%) Greens 2 (-1) 2.3% (-4.3%) Peoples Party 0 (-) 5.0% (+3.4%) Independent/Other 0 (-1) 0.6% (-5% or thereabouts!)
Grits picked up 2 seats from Tories in Alberta (one each Calgary & Edmonton) and 3 in BC (in suburban Vancouver); they also took 2 Ontario ridings from CPC but lost three the other way. In addition, the 2019 Green victor in New Brunswick (Fredericton) narrowly retained her seat . . . as a Liberal. Grits also gained a Vancouver seat that was won in 2019 by a former Lib & ex-minister who broke with Trudeau and retained her seat that election as an Independent. AND they won two seats from the Dippers: one in Hamilton, Ontario, another in St Johns, Newfoundland ( NDP incumbents NOT standing for re-election).
On other side of ledger Liberals lost one Quebec seat to BQ (suburban Montreal). And they punted away an otherwise safe seat in Kitchener, Ontario to the Greens, because they allowed an incumbent accused of sexual harassment to stand for re-election, then dumped him AFTER the deadline to file a replacement. Much worse was the loss of three seats in Atlantic Canada to the Tories: two in Nova Scotia, one in New Brunswick, and - most surprising - one in Newfoundland, which was very close and one of the last ridings decided.
As noted, Tories gained three seats from Grits in Ontario (one in Greater Toronto, two in eastern Ontario), partly offsetting two in the province lost to Liberals. But Conservatives lost two seats to NDP (one in Edmonton, Alberta, other in suburban Vancouver, BC).
Greens retained the Vancouver Island, BC seat of their former leader, but lost another Island riding to the Liberals (last race declared, between Lib and Con; Green incumbent was 3rd). And while they picked up the Kitcherner seat thanks to defenestration of sitting, disgraced Liberal, they punted away the Fredericton seat - their first and so far sole victory in Atlantic Canada) when the current Green leader effectively drove the Green NB MP out of the party and into the Liberal caucus. The Green vote share plummeted - despite rising concern re: climate change - in large measure due to leadership snafu, but also because party did NOT run anywhere near full slate of candidates. Oh, and their Clueless Leader lost her own riding big-time.
Finally, the Peoples Party of Canada was the mouse that squeaked, though making sufficient noise and taking enough votes from the Conservatives (esp. in the Prairie Provinces) to put Erin O'Toole's continued leadership in jeopardy. Though worth noting that PCC leader also lost his seat (which he represented before 2019 as a Tory) by even greater margin than last election.
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
I do give a toss about people which is why I think the vulnerable who need protection should get the advice to wear a proper FFP3 mask that actually does the job instead of a cloth mask placebo.
As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷♂️
Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".
Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.
Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.
COVID is endemic. You're talking about wearing a mask for the rest of your life. It isn't ever going away. We're already through the pandemic, you're the Japanese soldier in 1970 holding out on a tiny island thinking the war isn't over.
Bless. Once we have completed roll-out of vaccinations then transmission rates will drop.
The sad reality is that the UK has fallen well behind with vaccinations because people refuse to get it, has an endemic transmission rate significantly ahead of neighbouring countries, and let have the most aggressive "ditch masks and social distancing" views of anyone.
We've completed rollout of vaccines. It's done. Everyone who wants a vaccine can walk up and get one. What are you proposing? That the army (sans drivers, of course) march down the street and forcibly break down doors and jab this people who refused?
You're fighting a war that we've already lost/won depending on your perspective.
COVID is endemic. That's where we are. Deal with it.
Then we will have to accept the long term underling load on the NHS. On us being red listed by countries we want to travel to. On not getting clear of this when others do.
We could have got more people jabbed. Our neighbours managed it. Then again their leadership told people get the jab or else. Here Beaker told people it was over before it was, and so we're stuck with 30-40k new cases a day.
Ironically the one card he had left was to quote Kermit the Frog at the UN vaccine passports. I'm against these in principle, but they would have been effective in getting younger jab avoiders to get one.
Honestly, you're living in a complete dreamworld. None of the stuff you say is happening. Who cares if there's 30-40k cases per day? You've got yourself into a position where you're so far gone with opposing the government that you instinctively disagree with everything even when they're right. On going back to the old normal they are absolutely right. You want the delta cases now when there is high latent immunity and no NHS crisis, not in November and December with lower immunity and the annual NHS crisis.
Lots of the experts said as much when they supported the July 19th final restrictions being lifted.
Where we're at is unvaccinated people getting sick with COVID. That's a choice they made. The sooner all of those people are through the funnel the better.
With hindsight, I think the government got the delay to the 21st June reopening, and then the reopening on 19th July, correct. Probably not perfect, but correct enough. Certainly the prophecies of doom about reopening don't appear to have come to pass.
However: I wish people wouldn't be so blase about only the unvaccinated becoming sick. As far as I'm aware that isn't true, and we still have lots of people dying daily. We couldn't continue with the restrictions, but neither are we out of the woods yet.
I think the problem is that actually we are never going to be out of the woods. This is probably about as good as it is ever going to get but with a seasonal cycle imposed over the top. Just like seasonal flu. As such people have to decide whether they are going to make permanent changes to their lifestyle - masks, avoiding certain events etc - or if they are just going to accept that we have had one more small risk added to the many that already existed and that they want to get on with their lives without constantly worrying about about all the many things that may bring them down.
Absolutely right: as you are, quite often
Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power. As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me
Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
You seem to be concerned about people exercising freedom of choice. Or rather that their choices are different to yours. Which is strange, cos I am simultaneously hearing that those who won't wear masks don't care what others choose to do. But they seem to. Deeply.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you.
On mask wearing I've only recently stopped doing so in shops, and the only reason I waited was to be courteous as I had an August of big gatherings that had been delayed so I felt it was the right thing to do to wear one to help slow the spread.
I still carry a mask with me but the only place I wear it now is in taxis as the driver has no choice but to breathe the air I do.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you.
Well, you stand no chance of hitting me if you don’t watch, do you?
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.
This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.
Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
It is almost copybook. What was behind the 2000 protests were blockades of fuel depots by Bryndley Williams, who later became a Tory AM, and that idiot farmer from Monmouth and a bunch of hauliers backed by William Hague. And the tanker hauliers wouldn't scab their colleagues.
We panicked, we ran the pumps dry and we ran out of fuel. The end result was the same.
Sometimes you spend hours arguing black is white, and white is black.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you.
Well, you stand no chance of hitting me if you don’t watch, do you?
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you.
Well, you stand no chance of hitting me if you don’t watch, do you?
Locked and loaded
*Looks round carefully and reaches for tinfoil hat*
I'm not sure that that article can be described as empty-headed. To a certain extent it simply lays out an unsurprising but important fact, that many of the current issues are related to Brexit, and that the British political and media class have merely become nervous of describing that head-on.
If Brexit was the sole cause then that would be different, but it is multi faceted with covid, lost driving tests, older drivers retiring, and the terrible work conditions and pay making it very complex
And let's not forget Europe have a shortage of half a million drivers
There are some who are trying to make this all about Brexit for their own political motives but it is not
We did cover this in quite a lot of detail yesterday, to be fair. Europe are having the same shortages of drivers, but not of supplies, because drivers are more mobile around the EU.
That isn't a politically motivated point, but more the structural difference between being in a single market and free movement area, and not.
Bollocks.
There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.
This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.
Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
It is almost copybook. What was behind the 2000 protests were blockades of fuel depots by Bryndley Williams, who later became a Tory AM, and that idiot farmer from Monmouth and a bunch of hauliers backed by William Hague. And the tanker hauliers wouldn't scab their colleagues.
We panicked, we ran the pumps dry and we ran out of fuel. The end result was the same.
Sometimes you spend hours arguing black is white, and white is black.
Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
We should be asking given where we are with vaccinations and antibodies, why do we need extensive restrictions?
My gut - and it's just a gut - is that the only remaining defensible mask requirement is on public transport. (And, if we're honest, only really when it's busy. The problem is that that is a very hard condition to enforce.)
The question is even more basic, IMO, is it now a public health goal to prevent COVID from spreading? The answer, in the UK at least, is probably a pretty resounding no. We need COVID to spread as widely as possible and get as many people into the natural immunity funnel as possible before the NHS winter crisis.
Why do you think there will be a crisis in the NHS in the winter?
The weekly death stats suggest we're starting to catch up on those who dodged the reaper last winter (no flu etc.). I'm not sure if that feeds through into those who end up in hospital, but if it does, then it will probably be a tough winter. (Obviously, people dying isn't as much of a problem for the NHS as people getting ill and taking up beds.)
Ok, and how does Covid feed into that? How does letting it spread rapidly through the population now help in any way?
Better to get COVID out of the way now before flu takes off in Dec-Apr.
You're not quite saying the thing that underpins the logic of this argument: that having Covid burn through the population will add strain on the NHS. That's the logic, isn't it? Spread the strain out over 6 months instead of 4. Have people dying in hospital now instead of in January. It's that acknowledgement that having Covid spread wide will kill people, that's what I'm after. Because it's true, isn't it?
So what if it is? Everyone in the country is going to get it. You're looking for some idiotic gotcha moment but none of us are politicians and you aren't Robert Peston. At least I hope you aren't.
I'm not after a gotcha, I'm just checking that you're advocating what I think you're advocating. There are other things you could advocate to prevent strain on the NHS. I'll just note that masks also help prevent the spread of flu. Some people might like the idea of saving lives lost to both Covid and flu. And perhaps better planning and money for the NHS to cope with what appears to be a predictable time of difficulty. There are different ways forward.
What's your proposal? That its better to postpone antivaxxer infections from now to the winter crisis?
I don't agree. I hope as many antivaxxers as possible get the virus now.
I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.
I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
Hello Malky. Just finished some mutton curry and some decent Cotes de Rhone. More geese flying south overhead but pleasant enough weather over here.
This mask debate is really boring, so I may as well join in.
For those who don't want to ever wear masks, that's up to them. I rarely wear one. But, for example, my local bakery has a sign on the door politely asking customers to wear a mask (the staff all wear one), so out of respect I put a mask on when buying bread. Similarly, my local bus company has notices asking passengers to wear one, so I oblige on my quite frequent bus journeys.
What's wrong with a bit of common courtesy? If you're asked (politely) to stick a mask on, why not do it - even if you think it's unnecessary? It's not a big deal, and nor is it virtue signaling.
Comments
The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.
Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
If the SPD are clearly ahead though I expect the Union to go into opposition
Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
We have been double jabbed but both had to wear our masks on the underground this afternoon therefore
Reinfection rates are extremely low.
Remember too 2005 where Merkel was heading for a landslide early on but then chancellor Schroder slashed her lead and after polling day there ended up being the first CDU/CSU and SPD grand coalition and not the CDU/CSU and FDP majority she had hoped for.
The Union are pushing hard amongst centrist voters fear of Linke joining the government if the SPD win big which could be enough to cut the SPD lead to nearly nothing tomorrow and force another grand coalition. Though still probably with Scholz as chancellor
Shame to drop 2 points, but still clear at the top of the table and Brentford deserve a point. Well done them. 👏
No doubt they'd prefer NOT to have Linke as governmental partners, but also doubt that "no way" correctly describes the FDP position.
But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
They will go into government with the Union or the SPD or at a push the Greens, they would not go into government with the anti business and ex Stalinist Linke
Edit forgot the link. https://youtu.be/7R9kH_HOUXM
Shaping up to be a good season. No one looking outstanding. Some surprisingly competitive.
Danny Altmann
@Daltmann10
·
6h
I’m now officially in post-Brexit wild-West. No HGV drivers, no petrol: queued most of the morning for petrol. Got near the front and they said none left. Man behind me was furious and started punching the guard. Became a melee of 8-10 men on the ground, punching and kicking
A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.
Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.
Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_German_federal_election
I do expect Boris will suffer in the next few polls but then at this time in the cycle and with this crisis labour should be out of sight
I don't say I am doing that. but I'm not surprised it would be advocated.
Burnley look relegation fodder this year. Cornet was their best player and went off with a hamstring not long after his goal.
Keep this up and I'll be on the front bench.
Although admitting I am wrong probably has me barred.
Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
If you have half a tank of petrol and that's going to get you through another week then there's no reason whatsoever to top that tank up to full now. Because within a few days the panic buying morons tanks will all be full and the petrol stations will have been refuelled.
I am just nipping out to be on the safe side.
But one last time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/
Jeremy Corbyn, 25 April 2019
But fullfact says it's apocryphal.
https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/
Good
This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result
This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.
Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
As for the perspex cant say it bothers me in restaurants but once you get to clubs they are out of place and pointless giving the mixing generally.
...
El preso número nueve era un hombre muy cabal
But don't despair! Tit for tat does quite well (in repeated PDs).
Then, in the 90's they disappeared in the main. Why? Cos they were customer unfeiendly.
Strangely, when it is environmental protesters outside those same facilities they are straight in the back of the van.
Nice!
I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.
People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me
Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
Do you have any feel whether there will be another fishing explosion in Jersey next week?
I see that the "extended transition period" seems to be at its end on Sept 30, and the Jersey fishing authorities seem to be leaving it to the night before to hand out its 30 day notices, and the French Govt is setting up it's soapbox.
https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/french-pm-blames-fishing-row-lack-political-will/
https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/minister-considering-two-plan-bs-avoid-further-extension-fishing-amnesty/
Can we expect more throwing out of toys and blood-curdling threats from Mons. Macron? Or is this going to get resolved by Jersey playing doormat, or will they take the opportunity to have a non-destructive-of-the-seabed licensing regime, and enforce it?
*Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
London is certainly not going Puritan. It's rocking again tonight - have just been out
But I do worry about the small towns and cities, around the UK, which are somewhat older and more prone to caution. This is not condescension, most of my family live in place like this
We have to accept we have a new endemic respiratory virus which will probably shorten life expectancy by a few months, for a decade or two. We have really good vaccines, but they aren't perfect - yet. Although they will get better, as will the treatments
There it is. The young will be fine, the healthy will probably be fine, fat people should REALLY lose weight, the old are vulnerable, but not much more vulnerable than they were
We all die. Your chances of dying in any given year have increased by 0.1% (or whatever). It is no cause to upend society.
However, ON TOPIC I think we should rightly adopt the Asian courtesy that if you have a suspected cold or the Flu, you wear a mask TO PROTECT THOSE AROUND YOU. It is remarkable we don't do this already
Final tally:
Liberals 159 seats (+2 vs 2019) 32.6% vote share (-0.5% vs 2019)
Conservatives 119 (-2) 33.7% (-0.6%)
Bloc Québécois 33 (+1) 7.6% (-)
New Democrats 25 (+1) 17.8% (+1.8%)
Greens 2 (-1) 2.3% (-4.3%)
Peoples Party 0 (-) 5.0% (+3.4%)
Independent/Other 0 (-1) 0.6% (-5% or thereabouts!)
Grits picked up 2 seats from Tories in Alberta (one each Calgary & Edmonton) and 3 in BC (in suburban Vancouver); they also took 2 Ontario ridings from CPC but lost three the other way. In addition, the 2019 Green victor in New Brunswick (Fredericton) narrowly retained her seat . . . as a Liberal. Grits also gained a Vancouver seat that was won in 2019 by a former Lib & ex-minister who broke with Trudeau and retained her seat that election as an Independent. AND they won two seats from the Dippers: one in Hamilton, Ontario, another in St Johns, Newfoundland ( NDP incumbents NOT standing for re-election).
On other side of ledger Liberals lost one Quebec seat to BQ (suburban Montreal). And they punted away an otherwise safe seat in Kitchener, Ontario to the Greens, because they allowed an incumbent accused of sexual harassment to stand for re-election, then dumped him AFTER the deadline to file a replacement. Much worse was the loss of three seats in Atlantic Canada to the Tories: two in Nova Scotia, one in New Brunswick, and - most surprising - one in Newfoundland, which was very close and one of the last ridings decided.
As noted, Tories gained three seats from Grits in Ontario (one in Greater Toronto, two in eastern Ontario), partly offsetting two in the province lost to Liberals. But Conservatives lost two seats to NDP (one in Edmonton, Alberta, other in suburban Vancouver, BC).
Greens retained the Vancouver Island, BC seat of their former leader, but lost another Island riding to the Liberals (last race declared, between Lib and Con; Green incumbent was 3rd). And while they picked up the Kitcherner seat thanks to defenestration of sitting, disgraced Liberal, they punted away the Fredericton seat - their first and so far sole victory in Atlantic Canada) when the current Green leader effectively drove the Green NB MP out of the party and into the Liberal caucus. The Green vote share plummeted - despite rising concern re: climate change - in large measure due to leadership snafu, but also because party did NOT run anywhere near full slate of candidates. Oh, and their Clueless Leader lost her own riding big-time.
Finally, the Peoples Party of Canada was the mouse that squeaked, though making sufficient noise and taking enough votes from the Conservatives (esp. in the Prairie Provinces) to put Erin O'Toole's continued leadership in jeopardy. Though worth noting that PCC leader also lost his seat (which he represented before 2019 as a Tory) by even greater margin than last election.
As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷♂️
Or rather that their choices are different to yours.
Which is strange, cos I am simultaneously hearing that those who won't wear masks don't care what others choose to do.
But they seem to. Deeply.
I still carry a mask with me but the only place I wear it now is in taxis as the driver has no choice but to breathe the air I do.
We panicked, we ran the pumps dry and we ran out of fuel. The end result was the same.
Sometimes you spend hours arguing black is white, and white is black.
For those who don't want to ever wear masks, that's up to them. I rarely wear one. But, for example, my local bakery has a sign on the door politely asking customers to wear a mask (the staff all wear one), so out of respect I put a mask on when buying bread. Similarly, my local bus company has notices asking passengers to wear one, so I oblige on my quite frequent bus journeys.
What's wrong with a bit of common courtesy? If you're asked (politely) to stick a mask on, why not do it - even if you think it's unnecessary? It's not a big deal, and nor is it virtue signaling.