Stand by for a big announcement at 10pm – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
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Presumably we’ll just keep waiting for the EU to develop a common foreign policy then.Stark_Dawning said:
Whatever you say...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
And whilst it does that, it can continue to pipe Russian gas into the continent2 -
Stay at sea for months, under water, stealthily collecting electronic intelligence.Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
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Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?2
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Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself2 -
Explains why ScoMo was introducing it.Leon said:
Shashank Joshi
@shashj
·
1m
Our piece on AUKUS, which the British government refers to as a "new defence alliance". The agreement, originally proposed by Australia, will be signed in Washington next week, presumably during
@ScottMorrisonMP
's visit to Washington between Sep 21-24.
An Aussie proposal, interestingly. But suits US and UK
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1438250834777841666?s=200 -
And let's not forget, Leon can't ever remember his own name. ;-)Fysics_Teacher said:
If forgetting someone’s name (a name you really ought to know) is a sign of senility, then I’ve been senile my whole life.Leon said:
No, I'm sorry, I've got senile relatives (sadly). And that was pure senilityAnabobazina said:
I assumed it was a folksy joke.DecrepiterJohnL said:
I think that was a joke tbh. President Biden appears to be taking this less seriously than the other two.tlg86 said:Biden forgot ScoMo’s name?
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He simply forgot. Classic. So you stumble on a replacement - "that fella down under"
It makes teaching a bit more of a challenge, but that’s what seating plans are for.5 -
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
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Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
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Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.Foxy said:
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.Stark_Dawning said:Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
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No.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off ChinaDecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.Leon said:The exclusion of Canada seems deliberate
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Keep going without refuelling for a very long time.Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
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That was my interpretation too.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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They'll be very similar to these I imagine:Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine0 -
No. The submarines' engines will be nuclear-powered. They will not be armed with nuclear missiles.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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1
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No. No nuclear weapons was emphasised by Johnson and Biden.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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No.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
Nuclear powered submarine, so the submarine can be underwater anywhere in the Pacific for months without needing to surface or refuel.
Actually probably much more useful and practical than nuclear weapons are which are just deterrents.1 -
It’s only momentous if Japan and India follow.Leon said:
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off ChinaDecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.Leon said:The exclusion of Canada seems deliberate
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If nuclear powered but not nuclear armed, it can stay submerged indefinitely and so be very difficult to detect. One of those showing up in the middle of a fleet can really ruin someone’s day, as the General Belgrano found out.Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
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Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.0 -
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
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The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.10
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No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
This is big.1 -
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
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The reason that both the UK and the US are involved in the submarine deal is probably because of the interlinking of the US and UK submarine programs at technical level.Stark_Dawning said:
Whatever you say...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
The Americans shared natural convection reactor designs with us, for example, and we shared pump jet propulsor design with them (another example). The two together are the key to building a fast, silent nuke sub. There might well be agreements meaning that sharing the technologies with a third party would require agreement from the originators - so UK tech would require UK approval and US tech, US approval.1 -
Apparently a meeting with Boris - Biden - Morrison and the leaders of Japan and India is due in the US shortlyStark_Dawning said:Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
I am sure you are not so naive to think this will not be heard about again4 -
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Utterly contemptible.8 -
Loiter anywhere, for months at a time…Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
Maybe close to China.
No, not at all. Definitely not, because if that were true there would be chaos.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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I disagree. We can't just let them do whatever they want.northern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.2 -
Hmmm. In that case what is the threat in the event of Taiwan or Australia being invaded?Foxy said:
No. No nuclear weapons was emphasised by Johnson and Biden.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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Why is it nonsenseMexicanpete said:
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself0 -
Defeatist gibberish. China will be the biggest economy - for a while - but that absolutely DOES NOT mean they will be the hegemonic or dominant power, not if the democratic West unites (and loops in real or potential allies like S Korea, India, Japan). AUKUS is the first attempt to do that, it will be the core of the strategynorthern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
China can be contained, and peace will then be maintained. A kind of Cold War with free trade. That's what we want, it is the best we can hope for. This is the beginning5 -
There was something about AI and Cyber that was aimed at China but mainly it's an arms sale to Australia.Leon said:
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off ChinaDecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.Leon said:The exclusion of Canada seems deliberate
Not even that actually. They announced an 18-month negotiation of an arms sale.0 -
Actually, I'll revise that. There'll doubtless be a huge backlash in AUS about becoming a mere US dominion. Boris's presence might provide some counterweight to that, though it isn't great - many will see it as a former colonial master trying to muscle in with a potential new one.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.Foxy said:
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.Stark_Dawning said:Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
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Yes. The optimist in me says the fight back starts here. But it’s just the first step.Leon said:
Defeatist gibberish. China will be the biggest economy - for a while - but that absolutely DOES NOT mean they will be the hegemonic or dominant power, not if the democratic West unites (and loops in real or potential allies like S Korea, India, Japan). AUKUS is the first attempt to do that, it will be the core of the strategynorthern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
China can be contained, and peace will then be maintained. A kind of Cold War with free trade. That's what we want, it is the best we can hope for. This is the beginning1 -
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
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The first and fourth are relevant. If it weren't for Trudeau and Ardern this could have been a Five Eyes arrangement.Farooq said:Absolutely brilliant on here today.
It's because Ardern has China's fist up New Zealand's bum! No, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's aliens! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's a triumph for Brexit! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's the end of Trudeau! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Oh, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
The third is only being dragged in by Remoaners complaining about us being ripped out of Europe. Which is odd, remind me what Europe's defence policy is please?0 -
If we do nothing and China become the dominant global power your freedoms go too. Pouf. Gone. They will use a mixture of money and threats to control your life, and the world then slips into a dark new authoritarian age.northern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
Wake up.5 -
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.0 -
Taiwan might be breathing less rapidly now.0
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And which leaked a lethal pandemic on the world two years ago, a pandemic which has killed 10 million and will kill millions more, and which has decimated the world economy, and then covered up its probable origins in a dodgy lab, so we will never know for sureCasino_Royale said:
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Utterly contemptible.
That is China. Yet still they wibble on about Brexit4 -
That's one of those questions its best never to answer. The entire point is to keep them second-guessing.Mexicanpete said:
Hmmm. In that case what is the threat in the event of Taiwan or Australia being invaded?Foxy said:
No. No nuclear weapons was emphasised by Johnson and Biden.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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That large chunks of the invasion fleet wouldn’t be going home…Mexicanpete said:
Hmmm. In that case what is the threat in the event of Taiwan or Australia being invaded?Foxy said:
No. No nuclear weapons was emphasised by Johnson and Biden.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
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I wonder whether they'll go for something more like the dreadnought class, you know just in case they want to borrow a trident missile or two.Casino_Royale said:
They'll be very similar to these I imagine:Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine0 -
Not as big as if the alien invasion had been announced.Leon said:
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
This is big.1 -
As the Americans noted when a Chinese submarine surfaced next to one of their carriers recently.Fysics_Teacher said:
If nuclear powered but not nuclear armed, it can stay submerged indefinitely and so be very difficult to detect. One of those showing up in the middle of a fleet can really ruin someone’s day, as the General Belgrano found out.Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
And even in ww2, it was U-boat SOP to infiltrate convoys before sinking allied ships.0 -
AI is where the world should be scared of the Chinese....0
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I suspect Joe's forgotten about it already.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Apparently a meeting with Boris - Biden - Morrison and the leaders of Japan and India is due in the US shortlyStark_Dawning said:Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
I am sure you are not so naive to think this will not be heard about again1 -
Yes, GPT5 without Woke nonsense to rein it in. Fucking scaryFrancisUrquhart said:AI is where the world should be scared of the Chinese....
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"Stand up to and contain" China?Casino_Royale said:
Grow a dick. We're all fucked unless we stand up to and contain China.
Entirely necessary and the right thing to do for the future of humanity, and you're a naïve idiot if you disagree.
Okay - they're winning the economic war hands down it would seem - is any part of this standing up and containing process going to involve challenging China economically and environmentally (I presume if China can't get its coal from Australia, one of its African surrogates will provide).
How do we compete with China in Africa for example? What can we provide they can't?
Do we see the PLA marching across the steppes or sweeping into the Pacific - if so, shouldn't part of the containment process involve Russia and India who both share extensive borders with China or is our focus purely on the Pacific (Japan, South Korea?).
What of North Korea and its ballistic missile capability (another country with whom China shares a border coincidentally)?
I'm not disputing the fact China is emerging (or re-emerging) as a significant global power - at least economically. The military dimension - inasmuch as the nature of warfare is moving away to other spheres and other weapons than the old-fashioned tanks, guns and ships to cyber space and, whisper it quietly perhaps, biological warfare (sorry, can't get @Leon excited at this time of evening) - is less clear.
Are we offering any kind of guarantee to Vietnam (another country bordering China) or the Philippines?
Perhaps we should be looking to re-activate SEATO or something similar - I don't know.
I sense "standing up to and containing", while an easy soundbite, needs a lot more thought and coherence to get close to an actual policy.0 -
Just because China may end up the largest economy does not mean that as a Communist Party dictatorship still we should stand idly by and watch it threaten to invade Taiwan and then move on to Japan, S Korea etc. Supplying Australia with nuclear power submarines to help it join US, British, French and Japanese ships in patrolling the South China seas and warding off any overtly aggressive actions from Beijing is to be welcomednorthern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
0 -
Australia can't be invaded if they have submarines wandering around, being rude to the invasion force.Mexicanpete said:
Hmmm. In that case what is the threat in the event of Taiwan or Australia being invaded?Foxy said:
No. No nuclear weapons was emphasised by Johnson and Biden.rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
Mind you, all the places you could invade, are miles from anywhere you'd actually want to be.
Taiwan strait is an interesting case - an invasion force would be a perfect target for sub launched anti-ship missiles.0 -
Were you less parochial, you might have known that Taiwan is a simply fabulous country. And yes, it is a country.northern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.0 -
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did. Very welcome too.moonshine said:
It’s only momentous if Japan and India follow.Leon said:
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off ChinaDecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.Leon said:The exclusion of Canada seems deliberate
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But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannotnorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.2 -
You're an appeaser, and a bit of a coward.northern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
I have nothing but contempt for your views.3 -
You said it "must lead to a US trade deal" - no evidence for that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why is it nonsenseMexicanpete said:
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?1 -
Canada is closer to Russia than China, it is more important to keep Canada as part of plans to contain Putin as part of its NATO membershipLeon said:Could damage Trudeau?
"Canada left out again... Do our allies just not trust Trudeau?"
https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1438238781858095107?s=200 -
Bit of cut-'n-shut mate, bit of bondo and paint, you'll never tell......MaxPB said:
I wonder whether they'll go for something more like the dreadnought class, you know just in case they want to borrow a trident missile or two.Casino_Royale said:
They'll be very similar to these I imagine:Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_George_Washington_(SSBN-598)0 -
Forty years ago he'd have said the same thing about the USSR.Casino_Royale said:
You're an appeaser, and a bit of a coward.northern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
I have nothing but contempt for your views.2 -
So your solution is to.. do nothing? Considering how dominant and reliant we’ve the west has become on China in recent decades, that is a tad naivenorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.4 -
No. Since the fall of Singapore, and the Battle of the Coral Sea, Australia has known that the only country that can protect it is the USA. That is why the Aussies were in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Notably we skipped Vietnam, much to the Americans annoyance.Stark_Dawning said:
Actually, I'll revise that. There'll doubtless be a huge backlash in AUS about becoming a mere US dominion. Boris's presence might provide some counterweight to that, though it isn't great - many will see it as a former colonial master trying to muscle in with a potential new one.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.Foxy said:
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.Stark_Dawning said:Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
What does it matter to the UK? Possibly some export sales, though nothing very soon. More importantly it is to curry favour with Scotty in the run up to other deals.0 -
To be honest I think there is sheer horror in those who are pro EU as the UK moves onto the world stage with trade deals across the Pacific and the US now firmly in the grasp of the UK governmentCasino_Royale said:
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Utterly contemptible.1 -
True, but still better than the Nats.DavidL said:The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
0 -
You're expecting deference to the occasion rather than consideration of whether the substance of the announcement, which had been trailed, deserved to lead the news.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was a rare live tripartite address by the leaders of UK US and Australia and they decide not to feed it livePro_Rata said:
Quite rigid for the News Channel not to break from the 10 o'clock news for it, but I wouldn't have led BBC1 with that.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
Just on the news now.
At least Sky did
I think the BBC called it right not to run the live feed on BBC1, but what it does deserve is good analysis - I'll reserve judgement on that.
The pre-emptive kicking from the usual suspects feels mostly like so many tiny little doctors' hammers coming down on so many knees.0 -
It's been clear that we've been in a cold war for over a decade with only one side actually fighting. Now we've got appeasers on our own side complaining that we're finally mobilising and fighting back. We defeated the Soviets and Chinese are no different.Leon said:
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannotnorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.4 -
I have been pulling my hair out for years because Western policy makers refused to acknowledge they were an unwilling protagonist in a new Cold War. So relieved they’ve woken up to it.Leon said:
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannotnorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.3 -
Annoyingly good point.DavidL said:The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
2 -
That's ridiculous.Benpointer said:
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.2 -
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?Philip_Thompson said:
That's ridiculous.Benpointer said:
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.0 -
And having spent the last 25 years trading exclusively with China, exporting our manufacturing jobs and filling their banks with USD, Euros and UK pounds, in order to keep western inflation down, the penny has finally dropped.Casino_Royale said:
If we do nothing and China become the dominant global power your freedoms go too. Pouf. Gone. They will use a mixture of money and threats to control your life, and the world then slips into a dark new authoritarian age.northern_monkey said:
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?Cookie said:
What would your approach to China be?northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
Wake up.
A bit late for your big boy bravery now isn't it?2 -
Isn’t the more likely outcome Taiwan has a referendum and votes to unite with China? They fled communism, but now China got more billionaires and millionaire than anyone. Being under the nationalistic umbrella might actually appeal to the Taiwanese
And the silk road China is building reaches Europe, and UK workers all use their jobs because of cheap imports? Can we blow up that dangerous road with our subs instead? Isn’t that the realistic threat. There’s numerous ways to take a country into serfdom and client state. ☹️1 -
That was hours ago and was covered already and can be covered again after the press conference.Benpointer said:
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?Philip_Thompson said:
That's ridiculous.Benpointer said:
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
I can't recall the BBC ever not covering a joint press conference between the POTUS and PM before.2 -
Doubt it. You're a wavering voter and you hear that a deal to sell Australia some non-nuclear armed nuclear-powered subs has been agreed, and Canada's not involved. Does that decide your vote? Unlikely.Leon said:Could damage Trudeau?
"Canada left out again... Do our allies just not trust Trudeau?"
https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1438238781858095107?s=202 -
No, it is a matter of practicality. We have armed forces that couldn't hold a single province of Afghanistan, and who left Basra with tails between our legs when the Yanks rescued them. We have no bases in the region of China.Razedabode said:
So your solution is to.. do nothing? Considering how dominant and reliant we’ve the west has become on China in recent decades, that is a tad naivenorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
Our contribution to any war, hot or cold, against China will be insignificant.2 -
Not a chance, they've seen what has happened to Hong Kong.gealbhan said:Isn’t the more likely outcome Taiwan has a referendum and votes to unite with China? They fled communism, but now China got more billionaires and millionaire than anyone. Being under the nationalistic umbrella might actually appeal to the Taiwanese
And the silk road China is building reaches Europe, and UK workers all use their jobs because of cheap imports? Can we blow up that dangerous road with our subs instead? Isn’t that the realistic threat. There’s numerous ways to take a country into serfdom and client state. ☹️
Creative ambiguity suits them best too.1 -
Perhaps they only dragged Boris into it late this afternoon - the brief boilerplate he spouted certainly gave that impression.Benpointer said:
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?Philip_Thompson said:
That's ridiculous.Benpointer said:
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.Foxy said:
No need to cover it live until the content was known.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No excuse whatsoeverBenpointer said:
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC are shocking not covering this live
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.1 -
Liverpool
Absolutely delighted on my return to the cathedral of football that is Anfield.4 -
Does he support this tripartite deal to provide nuclear powered subs to AustraliaBenpointer said:
You said it "must lead to a US trade deal" - no evidence for that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why is it nonsenseMexicanpete said:
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?
I am sure the left and the Greens will be furious0 -
It all changed when Xi Jinping came to power. A brutal autocrat with an expansive if not imperialist mindset. So, 2013. Not quite a decade but near enoughMaxPB said:
It's been clear that we've been in a cold war for over a decade with only one side actually fighting. Now we've got appeasers on our own side complaining that we're finally mobilising and fighting back. We defeated the Soviets and Chinese are no different.Leon said:
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannotnorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
Until then it was possible to believe China would evolve into a kind of Japan times 10 or a Taiwan times 100. Not quite a democracy as we know it, but relatively free and peaceful. That was not naivety, it was a plausible ambition for the world.
Sadly gone. China is a foe.9 -
sadlyMexicanpete said:
Not as big as if the alien invasion had been announced.Leon said:
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
This is big.
1 -
This new UK/US/Oz alliance.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?1 -
Not a chance, this feeds into the US Military Industrial Complex.TheScreamingEagles said:This new UK/US/Oz alliance.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?2 -
Let's not start off down that road. The Scottish parties - all of them - can only work with the people they have. The country was 96% white according to the 2011 census, and things probably haven't shifted by more than 1-2% since.glw said:
True, but still better than the Nats.DavidL said:The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
The UK Parliament and Cabinet are more diverse because England is more diverse, that's all.1 -
Interesting choice of the word “when” rather than “if”TheScreamingEagles said:This new UK/US/Oz alliance.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?1 -
It worried me a bit when I thought it might be the aliens announcement, because an announcement now clearly isn’t the plan. There’s quite a bit more foreplay to come first. So if there had been a sudden announcement on aliens now, then it would likely mean “we” have lost control of the narrative. Which would be deeply unsettling.Daveyboy1961 said:
sadlyMexicanpete said:
Not as big as if the alien invasion had been announced.Leon said:
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)rottenborough said:Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
This is big.0 -
What about the workers' party?pigeon said:
Let's not start off down that road. The Scottish parties - all of them - can only work with the people they have. The country was 96% white according to the 2011 census, and things probably haven't shifted by more than 1-2% since.glw said:
True, but still better than the Nats.DavidL said:The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
The UK Parliament and Cabinet are more diverse because England is more diverse, that's all.
0 -
Australians will be holding their breath to see if China responds by halting or reducing trade.0
-
Hmm. It's a close election. It's not a good foreign policy look for Trudeau, being left out of a new and important military alliance of the major English speaking powers, including Canada's biggest ally and neighbourNickPalmer said:
Doubt it. You're a wavering voter and you hear that a deal to sell Australia some non-nuclear armed nuclear-powered subs has been agreed, and Canada's not involved. Does that decide your vote? Unlikely.Leon said:Could damage Trudeau?
"Canada left out again... Do our allies just not trust Trudeau?"
https://twitter.com/erinotoole/status/1438238781858095107?s=20
I guess the question is: if asked, would he have said Yes? I don't know enough about him to answer, but my instinct is that Canada being in this new alliance from the start would have been better for him, politically. If only because he'd have been on live global TV and they could have called it CAUKUS. Everyone wants a CAUKUS1 -
Why? They have never been bothered by nuclear powered vessels, just nuclear armed ones.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does he support this tripartite deal to provide nuclear powered subs to AustraliaBenpointer said:
You said it "must lead to a US trade deal" - no evidence for that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why is it nonsenseMexicanpete said:
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade dealnorthern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?
I am sure the left and the Greens will be furious2 -
Saw him on ITN news . He looked dishevelled. Looks like he needs a bath, a shave and some decent clothes... and a haircut...Chameleon said:Somehow Robert Peston's the loser in a reshuffle he wasn't even involved in!
https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1438190967782350853/photo/40 -
I suspect it's also to aid Australia to develop a nuclear civilian sector to aid its transition of energy generation away from coal.MaxPB said:
I wonder whether they'll go for something more like the dreadnought class, you know just in case they want to borrow a trident missile or two.Casino_Royale said:
They'll be very similar to these I imagine:Pulpstar said:What can a non nuclear nuclear sub actually do ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine0 -
The big difference between the Soviets and the Chinese is surely the strength of their economies. The Soviet ecomony effectively imploded bringing the regime down with it. There's no sign of that happening in China (yet).MaxPB said:
It's been clear that we've been in a cold war for over a decade with only one side actually fighting. Now we've got appeasers on our own side complaining that we're finally mobilising and fighting back. We defeated the Soviets and Chinese are no different.Leon said:
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannotnorthern_monkey said:
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.MaxPB said:
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.northern_monkey said:They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
A few days ago I got pilloried on here for questioning whether the Chinese economy can progress beyond its current huge manufacturing capability based on cheap, massive and well-organised labour, and move to become a true technological world leader.
Time will tell, but I wonder whether the central planning structure which has got China this far will prevent it overtaking America and Europe in the future.
1 -
Well given the way the GOP are stripping voting rights it really is a case of when.MrEd said:
Interesting choice of the word “when” rather than “if”TheScreamingEagles said:This new UK/US/Oz alliance.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?
Let us face if the GOP win the House next year even if Biden/Dems win the 2024 contest by 50 million votes and the electoral college by 300 votes the GOP will steal the election like they tried earlier on this year.2
