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Better Together: Olympic edition – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 15 in General
Better Together: Olympic edition – politicalbetting.com

There is support across the Home Nations, however, for the continuation of #TeamGB at the Olympics:??????? 62% support??????? 58%??????? 51%https://t.co/gRwmsN5pTH pic.twitter.com/EuXXLhML5d

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Test.

    Primus inter pares.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449
    Brave of you to post it after the complaints this morning ...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Oh dear Lord…here we go…
  • Carnyx said:

    Brave of you to post it after the complaints this morning ...

    I've been editing PB for just under a decade, you became impervious to the complaints and criticisms.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 927
    fpt
    Andy_JS said:

    Can't wait to read John Gray's analysis of what's happening in Afghanistan.

    Not much to wait for - he basically predicted it all 20 or so years ago.

    I suppose the main question left for him is whether western societies actually go on in any form at all or whether they will completely collapse in the face of more powerful and coherant adverseries?

    Certainly he had some optimism about Brexit and Trump representing the seeds of a viable post liberal society: yet this must have been severely dashed in 2020 by the woke transformation of society and the aggressive resurgence of progress as a religion.

    I don't think he has much left to say - other than we're all fucked.



  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279
    Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,323
    Mr. Eagles, and to education regarding the Second Punic War, apparently.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,786
    edited August 15

    Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.

    Wrong, it is based on fully weighted polls of Scotland, England, and Wales.

    The Scotland sample size is 1,002.
  • Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,376
    Great support across GB for our British team at the Olympics.

    Great to see and a wonderful example of how we are Better Together
  • Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449

    Mr. Eagles, and to education regarding the Second Punic War, apparently.

    Well, as I noted earlier, we do have our own Cato the Censor with his 'Caledonia delenda est'.

    I'll just make my afternoon contribution to Scottish political aggression by noting I am rereading and very much enjoying Charles McKean's book 'Battle for the North: The Tay and Forth Bridges and the 19th-Century Railway Wars' - nice broad approach including boardroom struggles and town (dis)improvement as well as the more bridge-y stuff.

    Play nicely with your train sets, everyone.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,585
    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,714

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    Love child?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,585

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    TSE is Mike's love child by a Pakistani film actress.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    I seem to recall you like trawling through old threads for what people have said.
    Care to do that on 'Scotch expert' for the last couple of weeks after having a wager on whether you or I have mentioned the term more?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)

    Are you including team sports?
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,714
    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    Here in southern Spain right now a balmy 40 degrees!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    How were the.medals broken down by Country for Team GB.?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,185
    I speculated at the time of the Olympics that the success of Team GB with a disproportionate number of Scots proudly wearing the badge and waving the Union Jack just might have some effect. We are about to get a repeat for the para-Olympics.

    We shall see. The list of obvious gains from the Union (vaccines, furlough, economic growth) is pretty strong at the moment but there is a lot of emotion in play.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,585
    DougSeal said:

    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)

    Are you including team sports?
    I'm using the official medal table. Of course, GB's silver in the 4x100m relay is at peril!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,931
    Just in: President Ashraf Ghani and Vice President Amrullah Saleh have now left Kabul.
    https://twitter.com/UmairJamal15/status/1426886799876579328
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,675

    How were the.medals broken down by Country for Team GB.?

    Doing it Ryder Cup style:

    Country - Gold, Silver, Bronze
    England - 33, 26, 49
    Scotland - 3, 10, 3
    Wales - 3, 2, 1
    Anguilla - 0, 1, 0

    That includes the 4x100 men's relay, which will probably be lost.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    TSE is Mike's love child by a Pakistani film actress.
    'Have you got Lollywood or are you just glad to see me?'
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    I seem to recall you like trawling through old threads for what people have said.
    Care to do that on 'Scotch expert' for the last couple of weeks after having a wager on whether you or I have mentioned the term more?
    No - I have to confess you have weaned yourself off it and it would likely be me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    I seem to recall you like trawling through old threads for what people have said.
    Care to do that on 'Scotch expert' for the last couple of weeks after having a wager on whether you or I have mentioned the term more?
    No - I have to confess you have weaned yourself off it and it would likely be me.
    My work is done here.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,279

    Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.

    Wrong, it is based on fully weighted polls of Scotland, England, and Wales.

    The Scotland sample size is 1,002.
    Not true. The Wales and Scotland samples were separate and correctly weighted, but the England sample (strangely) wasn’t: it was part of a sample of GB adults, and nowhere does it state that the England sub-sample was correctly weighted.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    DougSeal said:

    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)

    Are you including team sports?
    I'm using the official medal table. Of course, GB's silver in the 4x100m relay is at peril!
    The point being that, for example, the EU got gold silver and bronze in the handball. That’s a bit unfair if you are counting groups as a single country
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,585
    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    You forget Grenada!
    "Five minutes of firefight, five weeks of surfing!"

    Oh, and Panama.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,185
    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    They did manage to defeat Grenada in 1983, to the Queen's considerable irritation.
  • Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.

    Wrong, it is based on fully weighted polls of Scotland, England, and Wales.

    The Scotland sample size is 1,002.
    Not true. The Wales and Scotland samples were separate and correctly weighted, but the England sample (strangely) wasn’t: it was part of a sample of GB adults, and nowhere does it state that the England sub-sample was correctly weighted.
    It was, the England poll was part of a GB wide poll but then reweighted accordingly.

    The unweighted sample for England was 1,414 and the weighted sample was 1,417.

    Now I'm going to guess YouGov know their polls and weighting better than you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,585
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)

    Are you including team sports?
    I'm using the official medal table. Of course, GB's silver in the 4x100m relay is at peril!
    The point being that, for example, the EU got gold silver and bronze in the handball. That’s a bit unfair if you are counting groups as a single country
    Remember, this is just for a bit of fun!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    Would be pretty surprised if this Black Hawk ever takes part in an Islamic Ride of the Valkyries.

    https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1426897973972242433?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    (Typing quietly so as not to offend the wife)

    Revolution - baled out by the French

    1812 - beaten by what is now Canada, although they continue to claim victory as a result of the Battle of New Orleans, which occurred in unofficial overtime after the peace treaty was signed.

    Civil War - managed to beat themselves.

    Their most constant successes come against Spanish speaking countries (Mexico, Spanish-American War etc)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    edited August 15

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    You forget Grenada!
    "Five minutes of firefight, five weeks of surfing!"

    Oh, and Panama.
    Actually, I am being unfair on the USA. There were two Iraq wars, and they won the first, very easily

    Which teaches a lesson. Have a clear objective, when you achieve it, leave. Do not attempt an occupation

    So in Afghanistan America should have gone in, bombed Al Qaeda to bits and routed the Taliban, and then they should have got the hell out, leaving behind this warning: do whatever you like, throw gays off skyscrapers. we can't tell you how to live, much as we abhor it. But if there is any more exported terrorism, we will carpet bomb the entire country. Again and again

    Ruthless but effective? A lot cheaper than trying to rebuild an unwilling nation
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 13,995
    As this is a sport thread, a smashing start to the Formula E finale
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 851
    felix said:

    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    Here in southern Spain right now a balmy 40 degrees!
    A lovely afternoon here in southern England - and, mercifully, nowhere near 40°C.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,185
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    You forget Grenada!
    "Five minutes of firefight, five weeks of surfing!"

    Oh, and Panama.
    Actually, I am being unfair on the USA. There were two Iraq wars, and they won the first, very easily

    Which teaches a lesson. Have a clear objective, when you achieve it, leave. Do not attempt an occupation
    Bush senior had seen action and had a much better grip of what he was doing and not doing than his successors.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,749
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    You forget Grenada!
    "Five minutes of firefight, five weeks of surfing!"

    Oh, and Panama.
    Actually, I am being unfair on the USA. There were two Iraq wars, and they won the first, very easily

    Which teaches a lesson. Have a clear objective, when you achieve it, leave. Do not attempt an occupation
    On the other hand, if they/we'd toppled Saddam Hussein's regime in 1991, perhaps other events in the 1990s and 2000s would have played out more favourably.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449

    Would be pretty surprised if this Black Hawk ever takes part in an Islamic Ride of the Valkyries.

    https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1426897973972242433?s=20

    Not working, the tweet I mean.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.

    Wrong, it is based on fully weighted polls of Scotland, England, and Wales.

    The Scotland sample size is 1,002.
    Not true. The Wales and Scotland samples were separate and correctly weighted, but the England sample (strangely) wasn’t: it was part of a sample of GB adults, and nowhere does it state that the England sub-sample was correctly weighted.
    It was, the England poll was part of a GB wide poll but then reweighted accordingly.

    The unweighted sample for England was 1,414 and the weighted sample was 1,417.

    Now I'm going to guess YouGov know their polls and weighting better than you.
    I doubt it. Don’t forget he’s so good the betting companies restrict him to 50p wagers.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    felix said:

    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    Here in southern Spain right now a balmy 40 degrees!
    It’s a pleasant 23 here in the North Downs Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. Sitting outside with a beer wasting what’s left of my life on PB.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    edited August 15
    Carnyx said:

    Would be pretty surprised if this Black Hawk ever takes part in an Islamic Ride of the Valkyries.

    https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1426897973972242433?s=20

    Not working, the tweet I mean.
    Hmm, she seems to have deleted it for some reason. Probably the pic wasn't great evidence for a future airborne Islamic Emirate.

    The text is:

    Julia Macfarlane Flag of IndonesiaFlag of Scotland
    @juliamacfarlane
    Struck by something. In 2014, the Western world was hell bent on preventing the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate in Syria.
    In 2021 the Western world stood aside to allow the establishment of an Islamic Emirate in Afghanistan. One that may, in time, be airborne.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449
    DougSeal said:

    felix said:

    DougSeal said:

    Let’s get this out of the way-

    HYUFD - “Scotland Act, Boris will deny a referendum anyway, tanks”

    Dickson - “The English are BAD, it’s nice here In Sweden”

    TUD - “something something…Scotch Expert…something something…”

    Carlotta - “Here’s a nasty Twitter post from a ScotNat”

    Malc - “Arse, bollox, turnip, arse, feck, arse”

    Now we can move onto the weather maybe?

    Here in southern Spain right now a balmy 40 degrees!
    It’s a pleasant 23 here in the North Downs Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. Sitting outside with a beer wasting what’s left of my life on PB.
    16 degrees out of the intermittent sun in south-east Scotland, sorting through some old magazines and keeping an eye on PB ...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,393

    Breach of the Trades Description Act. This isn’t a thread about Scotland, it’s a thread about sub-samples.

    I was only skimming it, but that sounds better.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    @peteromallet

    In 1994, the widget thing in the Guinness can won invention of the year (based on a public vote in the UK) beating out THE INTERNET to the award.


    I actually agree with the British public there. I mean, pedantry aside (the internet was not invented in 1994) I think the widget in Guinness cans has had a net benefit to humankind. Jury’s out on the internet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,749
    Reuters reports that an Afghan official says President Ashraf Ghani has left Afghanistan for Tajikistan

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1426903473115783176
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    Very sound on some issues those Taliban chaps (and by God they are chaps!)

    Winnie Winthorpe
    @WinnieWinthorpe
    Replying to
    @transscribe
    The Taliban know exactly what a woman is without having to ask for preferred pronouns. Why do you think that is?
    12:57 pm · 15 Aug 2021·Twitter for Android
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    (Typing quietly so as not to offend the wife)

    Revolution - baled out by the French

    1812 - beaten by what is now Canada, although they continue to claim victory as a result of the Battle of New Orleans, which occurred in unofficial overtime after the peace treaty was signed.

    Civil War - managed to beat themselves.

    Their most constant successes come against Spanish speaking countries (Mexico, Spanish-American War etc)
    The French Royalty involvement in the American War of Independence is an interesting bit of political blowback on the French. The French got involved to weaken the British hold on North America, smarting at the loss of Canada, so spent a lot of time and treasure supporting the new Republic. The economic cost, and enlightenment ideas set the ground works for their own revolution, and their own route to extinction at the guillotine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,925
    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,451

    Very sound on some issues those Taliban chaps (and by God they are chaps!)

    Winnie Winthorpe
    @WinnieWinthorpe
    Replying to
    @transscribe
    The Taliban know exactly what a woman is without having to ask for preferred pronouns. Why do you think that is?
    12:57 pm · 15 Aug 2021·Twitter for Android

    Did you assume their gender ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,957
    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    What difference would being "organised" make? When we leave there is no-one willing to fight off the Taliban, and the Taliban will fill the void. However organised the Wests departure was it seems vanishingly unlikely to have changed that.

    We could stay longer. We could have not gone in. We could have done things differently over the 20 years. All of those would make a difference, the manner of the departure does not.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,451

    Would be pretty surprised if this Black Hawk ever takes part in an Islamic Ride of the Valkyries.

    https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1426897973972242433?s=20

    Whatever it was it is now deleted
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    You forget Grenada!
    "Five minutes of firefight, five weeks of surfing!"

    Oh, and Panama.
    Actually, I am being unfair on the USA. There were two Iraq wars, and they won the first, very easily

    Which teaches a lesson. Have a clear objective, when you achieve it, leave. Do not attempt an occupation
    Or if you are going to occupy, think about whether you have a plan to remake society (Japan, 1945).
    Half measures cost just as much, and don't end well.
    The thing is that Japan was not that difficult to remake. Until the militarists took control in the Twenties, Japan fitted quite well into the Western capitalist and industrial world. Japanese militarism had a short and disastrous history, quite different to other countries. Nazi Germany and fascist Italy too. Eastern European satellites had 4 decades of oppressive totalitarianism, but they too had long histories of social progress.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,451
    Decent footy match on with Newcastle, one of the favourites to go down, and the hammers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,519

    Very sound on some issues those Taliban chaps (and by God they are chaps!)

    Winnie Winthorpe
    @WinnieWinthorpe
    Replying to
    @transscribe
    The Taliban know exactly what a woman is without having to ask for preferred pronouns. Why do you think that is?
    12:57 pm · 15 Aug 2021·Twitter for Android

    Though the Iranian Islamic Republic does have a lot of gender reassignment surgery, albeit often forced. Homosexuals can sometimes choose it over the death penalty.

    https://qz.com/889548/everyone-treated-me-like-a-saint-in-iran-theres-only-one-way-to-survive-as-a-transgender-person/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,376
    edited August 15
    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    Iraq actually isn't a loss ironically, the US achieved its war aim of removing Saddam Hussein and replacing him with an elected government which is still in power (WMD was just the excuse used to remove Saddadm).

    The first Gulf War was a clear win in removing Saddam from Kuwait
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Just thinking: America's military track record since 1945 isn't that great for a supposed superpower


    They've been involved in four really big ground wars:

    Korea: won (or at least a score draw)
    Vietnam: lost
    Iraq: lost, narrowly
    Afghanistan: lost

    (Typing quietly so as not to offend the wife)

    Revolution - baled out by the French

    1812 - beaten by what is now Canada, although they continue to claim victory as a result of the Battle of New Orleans, which occurred in unofficial overtime after the peace treaty was signed.

    Civil War - managed to beat themselves.

    Their most constant successes come against Spanish speaking countries (Mexico, Spanish-American War etc)
    The French Royalty involvement in the American War of Independence is an interesting bit of political blowback on the French. The French got involved to weaken the British hold on North America, smarting at the loss of Canada, so spent a lot of time and treasure supporting the new Republic. The economic cost, and enlightenment ideas set the ground works for their own revolution, and their own route to extinction at the guillotine.
    Paying for the Seven Years War led to the American Revolution.

    Paying for the American Revolution led to the French Revolution.

    Paying for the French Revolution led, ultimately, to Waterloo.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,743
    edited August 15
    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    The American troops left on the qt, so this was Al ays inevitable.

    However, Trump announced the withdrawal last year so Biden was an is in a complete no win situation.

    Keep the troops there and the GOP would criticise everyday hand injury, leave and suffer the pain and embarrassment of leaving.

    By doing it now through it will be forgotten before the next election comes along.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,498
    So basically - I was willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt after Trump.

    But my god - he is useless. All the criticism levelled at him in the past coming back to bite.
  • Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,675
    Taz said:

    Decent footy match on with Newcastle, one of the favourites to go down, and the hammers.

    Excellent game. Feel for the West Ham fans at the top of the stadium:

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-confirm-away-fans-not-14386184

    Personally I think Newcastle should have been kicked out of the PL for not fulfilling this requirement.

    I'm not sure how having away fans in the upper tier can ever be described as the safe option.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,138
    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    Biden was assured by his military that the Afghan army could hold the line, having been trained up to US standards. I imagine he's now beginning to doubt their judgment and this will inevitably affect White House - Pentagon relations. If POTUS can't trust his own advisers he can't make good decisions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,925
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    The American troops left on the qt, so this was Al ays inevitable.

    However, Trump announced the withdrawal last year so Biden was an is in a complete no win situation.

    Keep the troops there and the GOP would criticise everyday hand injury, leave and suffer the pain and embarrassment of leaving.

    By doing it now through it will be forgotten before the next election comes along.
    Of course it was always going to be a tricky situation to manage, but pretty much any way would have been better than having to land Chinooks on the roof of your own embassy to get the diplomats out.

    Those photos will define Biden’s presidency, it’s reminiscent of the fall of Saigon five decades ago, as the American troops fled Vietnam in defeat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,376
    edited August 15
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    The American troops left on the qt, so this was Al ays inevitable.

    However, Trump announced the withdrawal last year so Biden was an is in a complete no win situation.

    Keep the troops there and the GOP would criticise everyday hand injury, leave and suffer the pain and embarrassment of leaving.

    By doing it now through it will be forgotten before the next election comes along.
    If there is 9/11 2 because of this the Biden-Harris administration will certainly not be forgiven by US voters on election day
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    One thing that the Fall of Kabul will bring about - the first non-hybrid Commons since March 2020.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    The American troops left on the qt, so this was Al ays inevitable.

    However, Trump announced the withdrawal last year so Biden was an is in a complete no win situation.

    Keep the troops there and the GOP would criticise everyday hand injury, leave and suffer the pain and embarrassment of leaving.

    By doing it now through it will be forgotten before the next election comes along.
    Its also much greener to leave Afghanistan completely

    Think of the emissions if we had to keep flying all those troops and ordnance in and out of the country.

    The logistics of installing charging points so that our battery operated tanks and personnel carriers could keep moving would also be a nightmare.

    And of course mass troop movements would be difficult to manage with social distancing, masks, vaccination checks and quarantining so that Afghanistan's health service isn't overwhelmed.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,575

    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    Biden was assured by his military that the Afghan army could hold the line, having been trained up to US standards. I imagine he's now beginning to doubt their judgment and this will inevitably affect White House - Pentagon relations. If POTUS can't trust his own advisers he can't make good decisions.
    He was apparently warned that about 18 months after withdrawal things might start to go pear shaped.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    One wonders quite what the point of Ghani's TV address (yesterday? the day before?) was, having fled now apparently.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,575

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Went to the right school, sharp elbows, knows whose palms to grease. Usual story.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,072

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Back in 2011 The Times went behind a paywall and I was a subscriber (still am) and Mike wasn't.

    At the time The Times used to commission a monthly Populus phone poll (which Mike rated highly), every Sunday there'd be an extended YouGov on most of the week's events, and a regular Ipsos MORI phone poll on Scotland so I used to email them to Mike when they appeared.

    He and I then started discussing the polls and other stories, via email and phone, The Times did some excellent work on Chris Huhne, I pointed out to Mike that Huhne was screwed and his defence was rubbish but the CPS works slower than the media expects which led to kerching time.

    Then in March 2012 Mike rang me and said he was going on holiday in a couple of months and would I like to edit PB in his absence.

    So really you can thank Rupert Murdoch and Chris Huhne for me getting the gig.
    So a lying crook and somebody who did ja...no, better stop there.
  • tlg86 said:

    Taz said:

    Decent footy match on with Newcastle, one of the favourites to go down, and the hammers.

    Excellent game. Feel for the West Ham fans at the top of the stadium:

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-confirm-away-fans-not-14386184

    Personally I think Newcastle should have been kicked out of the PL for not fulfilling this requirement.

    I'm not sure how having away fans in the upper tier can ever be described as the safe option.
    Agree, had punches thrown at me and others at Sid James Park back in May 2019.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,461
    "Confusion reigned in Washington early Sunday as the Taliban closed in on Kabul, Afghanistan’s capital, with U.S. officials scrambling to determine whether the extremist group had, in fact, entered the city — and how safe Americans still there would be."

    NYTimes blog.


    Confusion is one word for it I suppose.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,451
    Newcastle from a 2-1 lead are 4-2 down and look poor. Relegation fodder.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,177
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    What the hell is going on in Afghanistan? Did Biden think he’s just abandon the place to the Taliban, as opposed to being in the slightest bit organised about withdrawing troops?

    The American troops left on the qt, so this was Al ays inevitable.

    However, Trump announced the withdrawal last year so Biden was an is in a complete no win situation.

    Keep the troops there and the GOP would criticise everyday hand injury, leave and suffer the pain and embarrassment of leaving.

    By doing it now through it will be forgotten before the next election comes along.
    If there is 9/11 2 because of this the Biden-Harris administration will certainly not be forgiven by US voters on election day
    Lewis Goodall
    @lewis_goodall
    33m
    Boris Johnson remarks to the Commons 8th July: “I am sure they will be aware that there is no military path to victory for the Taliban...I do not believe that the Taliban are guaranteed the kind of victory that we sometimes read about.”
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887
    edited August 15
    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory is political, rather than a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,072
    FF43 said:

    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory, which to be clear is a political one, not a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.

    How many times do people need telling that is exactly what Trump did?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,971

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Back in 2011 The Times went behind a paywall and I was a subscriber (still am) and Mike wasn't.

    At the time The Times used to commission a monthly Populus phone poll (which Mike rated highly), every Sunday there'd be an extended YouGov on most of the week's events, and a regular Ipsos MORI phone poll on Scotland so I used to email them to Mike when they appeared.

    He and I then started discussing the polls and other stories, via email and phone, The Times did some excellent work on Chris Huhne, I pointed out to Mike that Huhne was screwed and his defence was rubbish but the CPS works slower than the media expects which led to kerching time.

    Then in March 2012 Mike rang me and said he was going on holiday in a couple of months and would I like to edit PB in his absence.

    So really you can thank Rupert Murdoch and Chris Huhne for me getting the gig.
    Those were the days.

    Well done 👍
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,138

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Back in 2011 The Times went behind a paywall and I was a subscriber (still am) and Mike wasn't.

    At the time The Times used to commission a monthly Populus phone poll (which Mike rated highly), every Sunday there'd be an extended YouGov on most of the week's events, and a regular Ipsos MORI phone poll on Scotland so I used to email them to Mike when they appeared.

    He and I then started discussing the polls and other stories, via email and phone, The Times did some excellent work on Chris Huhne, I pointed out to Mike that Huhne was screwed and his defence was rubbish but the CPS works slower than the media expects which led to kerching time.

    Then in March 2012 Mike rang me and said he was going on holiday in a couple of months and would I like to edit PB in his absence.

    So really you can thank Rupert Murdoch and Chris Huhne for me getting the gig.
    ... and as we all know it's a bit of a doss because nothing ever happens when OGH is on holiday.
  • What does OGH mean is that Mike
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,575

    What does OGH mean is that Mike

    Our Genial Host = Mike
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,072

    What does OGH mean is that Mike

    Our Genial Host and Yes.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory, which to be clear is a political one, not a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.

    How many times do people need telling that is exactly what Trump did?
    Trump didn't get the terms, nor did he threaten the consequences of not agreeing the terms. The Taleban do appear to want international legitimacy. Put a price on that.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,138
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory, which to be clear is a political one, not a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.

    How many times do people need telling that is exactly what Trump did?
    For anyone too young to remember, this is the other way to leave:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,887

    Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Back in 2011 The Times went behind a paywall and I was a subscriber (still am) and Mike wasn't.

    At the time The Times used to commission a monthly Populus phone poll (which Mike rated highly), every Sunday there'd be an extended YouGov on most of the week's events, and a regular Ipsos MORI phone poll on Scotland so I used to email them to Mike when they appeared.

    He and I then started discussing the polls and other stories, via email and phone, The Times did some excellent work on Chris Huhne, I pointed out to Mike that Huhne was screwed and his defence was rubbish but the CPS works slower than the media expects which led to kerching time.

    Then in March 2012 Mike rang me and said he was going on holiday in a couple of months and would I like to edit PB in his absence.

    So really you can thank Rupert Murdoch and Chris Huhne for me getting the gig.
    We need a party to celebrate your ten years!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,971
    FPT - the ongoing calamity in the Channel means the Government has little political headroom for any large-scale generosity towards Afghan asylum seekers.

    That said, for those translators who directly aided us, I would be inclined to be generous; I can't imagine there's more than a few thousand.

    Longer-term our solution to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and Syria can't simply be to take ever greater numbers of those who want to flee their dastardly regimes - it's why I've always been bullish on nation building in the Middle-East and SSA, even if that's had decidedly mixed results, because I think that's a far better political objective to have.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,072
    edited August 15
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory, which to be clear is a political one, not a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.

    How many times do people need telling that is exactly what Trump did?
    Trump didn't get the terms, nor did he threaten the consequences of not agreeing the terms. The Taleban do appear to want international legitimacy. Put a price on that.
    Bullshit.

    I really believe the Taliban wants to do something to show we're not all wasting time," Mr Trump added. "If bad things happen, we'll go back with a force like no-one's ever seen.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51689443

    The Taleban haven't kept a single line of that agreement, but not only did Trump not change his mind on withdrawal, four weeks ago he was criticising Biden for withdrawing too slowly.

    The simple truth is that we kept soldiers there or we handed the country to the Taleban. The failure to build a functioning civil society since 2001 meant there were no other options.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,575
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Amongst the grim regimes out there, the Taleban have a special place of horrible. No-one with an ounce of humanity can celebrate their victory. But as their victory, which to be clear is a political one, not a military one that the Americans could actually see off if they wanted to, I am not sure what Biden could have done to avoid the inevitable.

    Except possibly one thing. Which is to cut a deal with the Taleban on exit terms: we will leave you to it, now, if you allow certain things. Or you will be fighting us all the way.

    How many times do people need telling that is exactly what Trump did?
    Trump didn't get the terms, nor did he threaten the consequences of not agreeing the terms. The Taleban do appear to want international legitimacy. Put a price on that.
    They also want (or at least refuse to rule out when questioned) immediate full-fat sharia law, incl hand-chopping and stoning, and educating girls to be OK only up to age 12.
  • Our Genial Host - ? Reference I don't get?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Leon has pointed out how the US mainstream media has turned against Biden, and it is quite remarkable.

    CNN really indignant and roasting Blinken this morning. I guess they don't care what ice cream Joe eats any more.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,477
    edited August 15

    Anglosphere* medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 94
    Silver 81
    Bronze 97
    TOTAL 272

    EU** medal tally @Tokyo:

    Gold 83
    Silver 94
    Bronze 107
    TOTAL 284

    (* USA, Eng+Sco+Wal+NI, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland)
    (** excluding Ireland)

    When we come to add in the forthcoming winter tallies, the EU will surely come out ahead.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,575

    Our Genial Host - ? Reference I don't get?

    Not specifically, AFAIK. Think of him as landlord of the virtual pub which is PB.
  • Is TSE related to Mike, I get confused

    No.

    Robert (RCS1000) is Mike's son.
    Did you just join as a member then? How did you get into the current position
    Back in 2011 The Times went behind a paywall and I was a subscriber (still am) and Mike wasn't.

    At the time The Times used to commission a monthly Populus phone poll (which Mike rated highly), every Sunday there'd be an extended YouGov on most of the week's events, and a regular Ipsos MORI phone poll on Scotland so I used to email them to Mike when they appeared.

    He and I then started discussing the polls and other stories, via email and phone, The Times did some excellent work on Chris Huhne, I pointed out to Mike that Huhne was screwed and his defence was rubbish but the CPS works slower than the media expects which led to kerching time.

    Then in March 2012 Mike rang me and said he was going on holiday in a couple of months and would I like to edit PB in his absence.

    So really you can thank Rupert Murdoch and Chris Huhne for me getting the gig.
    Those were the days.

    Well done 👍
    I miss those days as well, the days when the omnishambles budget was the apotheosis of a government screw up.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833

    As this is a sport thread, a smashing start to the Formula E finale

    Your secret life book was ok without being great. Seemed more like a collection of essays than a proper thesis, although the shrimp industry chapter was interesting

    A little over-written at times
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,072
    I've got two cricket matches open on my third screen at the moment.

    One is a vitally important match which is going very badly. The batsmen are lashing the bowling all round the ground like you can't believe it.

    The other is the Test match.
This discussion has been closed.