Is Sunak going to give state pensioners an 8% increase? – politicalbetting.com

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Philip_Thompson said:

Mexicanpete said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it dohes by how it acts.

What do you think Francois, Bone, Cash, Chope, Philip Davies and their Brexity chums, and to an extent Johnson stand for if not English Nationalism?

British nationalism.

What about it is English?

felix said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Scott'nPaste trying to mislead again? Who can forget his covid fake figures the other week? Not me.

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

I see that ridiculous SeanT article about America - ill-informed gibberish from a typical europhile lefty - is now the most read on the Spectator website. Thank God he has gone, or he'd be crowing on here in his usual obnoxious style.

Yeah - he's probably rereading it endlessly himself, just to get those numbers up, eh.

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

I see that ridiculous SeanT article about America - ill-informed gibberish from a typical europhile lefty - is now the most read on the Spectator website. Thank God he has gone, or he'd be crowing on here in his usual obnoxious style.

Yeah - he's probably rereading it endlessly himself, just to get those numbers up, eh.

glw said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Starmer's not had a good summer. I don't particularly mind him, but I'm starting to think he might also be a bit rubbish.

felix said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.

However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses

As a matter of interest how are these grants funded

BBC News - University of Leeds students offered £10k and free housing to defer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58176877

Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.

Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.

Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.

Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.

Face-to-face teaching will be better too!

I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.

Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

felix said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.

However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses

As a matter of interest how are these grants funded

BBC News - University of Leeds students offered £10k and free housing to defer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58176877

Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.

Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.

Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.

Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.

Face-to-face teaching will be better too!

I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.

Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.

glw said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Starmer's not had a good summer. I don't particularly mind him, but I'm starting to think he might also be a bit rubbish.

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Carnyx said:

kinabalu said:

Carnyx said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

Might be worth considering whether you need to capitalise the Nat bit. The PBtories do confuse Scottish nationalism/independistism with SNP membership. Vide HYUFD, Candy etc.

It's an interesting one. There's no logical reason why ardent English nationalist sentiment should be correlated to the fruitier end of right wing politics but such is undeniably the case. I have yet to come across a person attracted to the first who is not also a Hard Leaver and (at the very least) clearly on the right of the political spectrum.

Imperialism and colonialism an element?

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Gaslighting is one of those weird up-it's-own-posterior words.

Accusing somebody of gaslighting is nearly always an act of gaslighting.

CarlottaVance said:

Sturgeon letter.....I wonder if she posts one too, or just leaves it up on Twitter?

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1425780558173462535?s=20

Theuniondivvie said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Gaslighting is one of those weird up-it's-own-posterior words.

Accusing somebody of gaslighting is nearly always an act of gaslighting.

It's a term with a very specific (literary/dramatic/cinematic) origin.

Those that immediately accuse others of gaslighting after being described as such remind me of those people that immediately counter being called racist by roaring 'but you're the real RACIST!'. Often the same folk 'n' all.

isam said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Gaslighting is one of those weird up-it's-own-posterior words.

Accusing somebody of gaslighting is nearly always an act of gaslighting.

It's a term with a very specific (literary/dramatic/cinematic) origin.

Those that immediately accuse others of gaslighting after being described as such remind me of those people that immediately counter being called racist by roaring 'but you're the real RACIST!'. Often the same folk 'n' all.

Reminds me of one of the final scenes from BlackAdder II - ‘Let me assure you, Herr BlackAdder, that if you had inconwenienced me, you would not have a tongue…” etc

For the record I didn’t know what Gaslighting was at the start of this convo, I know my place Boss!

Carnyx said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.

The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).

CarlottaVance said:

Joint work completed by PHE and Cambridge University’s MRC Biostatistics Unit estimates that 84,600 deaths and 23,395,000 infections have been prevented as a result of the COVID-19 vaccination programme, up to 6 August.

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1425804721932185610?s=21

Theuniondivvie said:

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Gaslighting is one of those weird up-it's-own-posterior words.

Accusing somebody of gaslighting is nearly always an act of gaslighting.

It's a term with a very specific (literary/dramatic/cinematic) origin.

Those that immediately accuse others of gaslighting after being described as such remind me of those people that immediately counter being called racist by roaring 'but you're the real RACIST!'. Often the same folk 'n' all.

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

Philip, you're overheating and overcomplicating things.

I asked you a simple question viz: Have you followed my recommendation and taken a look at the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

Honest answer (which I would have taken without demur and moved on) is -

No, kinabalu, I haven't. And neither will I be because I have better things to do with my time, to wit holding down a serious full time job, plus being a devoted husband and involved father of 2 young daughters, and as if that weren't enough also posting for many hours each day on PB.com, the country's leading political punditry website, doing my level best to put a pronounced pro Brexit pro "Boris" Johnson slant on all the issues of the day.

MattW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Probably not

I wonder what happened to get my post in reply to you last night deleted. That was odd wasn’t it?

Very. Do you have a theory?

All I can think of is the Russians came in and grabbed it for some reason. Bit of a worry if so.

I think they’re trying to make me think I’m losing my mind! If you hadn’t replied they might have succeeded!! I was re-reading the thread over & over thinking ‘I’m sure I wrote back to him’

Aka gaslighting..

Gaslighting is one of those weird up-it's-own-posterior words.

Accusing somebody of gaslighting is nearly always an act of gaslighting.

kinabalu said:

felix said:

kinabalu said:

felix said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.

However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses

As a matter of interest how are these grants funded

BBC News - University of Leeds students offered £10k and free housing to defer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58176877

Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.

Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.

Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.

Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.

Face-to-face teaching will be better too!

I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.

Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.

So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.

Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.

Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.

Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.

williamglenn said:

After speculation that Russia is fiddling its daily figures so they don’t show a number above 800, today they’ve reported 808 deaths.

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.

The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).

They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.

52% of Scots excluding don't knows want to stay in the UK even after Brexit has now occurred in the latest Scottish poll
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1424074941381713921?s=20

noneoftheabove said:

CarlottaVance said:

Joint work completed by PHE and Cambridge University’s MRC Biostatistics Unit estimates that 84,600 deaths and 23,395,000 infections have been prevented as a result of the COVID-19 vaccination programme, up to 6 August.

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1425804721932185610?s=21

That is assuming everything is else stayed the same, which it would not have done with 24m extra infections in 8 months! It is impressive and re-confirms vaccines work, but I am not sure the numbers "mean" anything.

Nigelb said:

Poland heading the way of Hungary.

A trenchant and resolutely correct assessment from Timothy Garton Ash - what is happening in Poland represents a major challenge to the EU. Let’s hope the Commission and other EU institutions finally wake up to confront this threat.
https://twitter.com/MishaGlenny/status/1425736114464337926

felix said:

CON: 41% (+2)
LAB: 33% (-1)

via @YouGov


CON: 41% (+1)
LAB: 33% (-1)

via @SavantaComRes

HYUFD said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.

The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).

They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.

52% of Scots excluding don't knows want to stay in the UK even after Brexit has now occurred in the latest Scottish poll
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1424074941381713921?s=20

40% of Scots in the same poll would also be less likely to support independence than now if it mean joining the Euro
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/08/07/support-independence-drops-significantly-scotland-set-join-euro/

contrarian said:

noneoftheabove said:

CarlottaVance said:

Joint work completed by PHE and Cambridge University’s MRC Biostatistics Unit estimates that 84,600 deaths and 23,395,000 infections have been prevented as a result of the COVID-19 vaccination programme, up to 6 August.

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1425804721932185610?s=21

That is assuming everything is else stayed the same, which it would not have done with 24m extra infections in 8 months! It is impressive and re-confirms vaccines work, but I am not sure the numbers "mean" anything.

Isn't it true that doubly vaccinated people can both get infected by covid and pass on covid to other vaccinated and unvaccinated people?

If that is the case I don't see how you can arrive at a reliable figure for infections prevented by covid vaccination....?

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

Philip, you're overheating and overcomplicating things.

I asked you a simple question viz: Have you followed my recommendation and taken a look at the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

Honest answer (which I would have taken without demur and moved on) is -

No, kinabalu, I haven't. And neither will I be because I have better things to do with my time, to wit holding down a serious full time job, plus being a devoted husband and involved father of 2 young daughters, and as if that weren't enough also posting for many hours each day on PB.com, the country's leading political punditry website, doing my level best to put a pronounced pro Brexit pro "Boris" Johnson slant on all the issues of the day.

Honest answer: No, kinabalu I haven't. Because there are no links. There is no English nationalist party that can be linked to anything whatsoever.

You want to associate it with the condemnation of Labour being led by an antisemite. That's fine. You show me an English nationalist party that is linked to whatever and we can discuss it.

But philosophies and parties are entirely different things. Corbyn being a vile antisemite doesn't tarnish left wing politics as a whole, it tarnished the Labour Party in particular when he led it. Now he doesn't lead Labour, and isn't a part of Labour anymore, its no longer part of the conversation.

By trying to merge the two issues is gaslighting.

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

Philip, you're overheating and overcomplicating things.

I asked you a simple question viz: Have you followed my recommendation and taken a look at the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

Honest answer (which I would have taken without demur and moved on) is -

No, kinabalu, I haven't. And neither will I be because I have better things to do with my time, to wit holding down a serious full time job, plus being a devoted husband and involved father of 2 young daughters, and as if that weren't enough also posting for many hours each day on PB.com, the country's leading political punditry website, doing my level best to put a pronounced pro Brexit pro "Boris" Johnson slant on all the issues of the day.

Honest answer: No, kinabalu I haven't. Because there are no links. There is no English nationalist party that can be linked to anything whatsoever.

You want to associate it with the condemnation of Labour being led by an antisemite. That's fine. You show me an English nationalist party that is linked to whatever and we can discuss it.

But philosophies and parties are entirely different things. Corbyn being a vile antisemite doesn't tarnish left wing politics as a whole, it tarnished the Labour Party in particular when he led it. Now he doesn't lead Labour, and isn't a part of Labour anymore, its no longer part of the conversation.

By trying to merge the two issues is gaslighting.

Time to move on, I think. The irreducible truth here is that you haven't as yet looked into the links between strident Eng Nat sentiment and the far right. Once you have, even if you fail to turn up any, I'll be all ears and we can develop this topic. I hope we can since it's quite important.

glw said:

kinabalu said:

isam said:

isam said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Boris Johnson is struggling to break through with his flagship “levelling up” agenda with 55 per cent of the public saying the Government is doing a bad job on this policy, reveals an @IpsosMORI poll for @EveningStandard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-poll-levelling-up-ipsos-mori-b950314.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1425786745342341123/photo/1

Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling

I knew the headline would be the worst if it!

The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27

“Key findings in the poll show:

* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).

* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.

* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”

Con 41
Lab 30

The first double digit Tory lead for a month

Dead cat bounce?

Starmer's not had a good summer. I don't particularly mind him, but I'm starting to think he might also be a bit rubbish.

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

TOPPING said:

kinabalu said:

felix said:

kinabalu said:

felix said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

northern_monkey said:

kinabalu said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.

However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses

As a matter of interest how are these grants funded

BBC News - University of Leeds students offered £10k and free housing to defer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58176877

Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.

Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.

Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.

Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.

There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.

Face-to-face teaching will be better too!

I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.

Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.

So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.

Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.

Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.

Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.

Very rich hard left social democrat.

But look it really doesn't matter.

Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.

Neither did Polly but it has relevance.

You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.

Should you give up all your wealth?

Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.

Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GDz21uUhBU

Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?

You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Philip_Thompson said:

StuartDickson said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

StuartDickson said:

Fishing said:

I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.

The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.

This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.

The modern iteration of the Tory party:

- English Nationalist, not One Nation
- Revolutionary, not Conservative
- High tax/high debt, not Friedman
- State control, not free market
- Social engineering, not conservatism
- Nasty, not paternal
- Reactive, not confident
- Populist, not principled
- Clown, not competence
- Degenerate, not moral
- Cash for pals, not good governance
- Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation
- Fuck business, not pro business
- Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law
- Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions
- Authoritarian, not liberal
- Corruption, not ethics

The only constant is the blue rosettes.

The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.

According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.

The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.

If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.

One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.

Because its not true.

The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.

England wasn't here nor there for that.

What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.

Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.

Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.

Your naivety is astonishing.

What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?

Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?

That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.

Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.

Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?

There are no links.

Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.

You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.

No, there are no links to look into.

That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?

That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.

I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.

Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.

Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.

Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.

That's meaningless gibberish.

There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.

The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.

Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.

There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.

Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.

Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.

No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.

It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.

This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.

The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).

They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.

52% of Scots excluding don't knows want to stay in the UK even after Brexit has now occurred in the latest Scottish poll
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1424074941381713921?s=20

40% of Scots in the same poll would also be less likely to support independence than now if it mean joining the Euro
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/08/07/support-independence-drops-significantly-scotland-set-join-euro/

Is there a word for endlessly guddling about in the entrails of polls to persuade oneself of a proposition while running screeching from an actual vote on that proposition? Perhaps the Germans have something...

Andy_JS said:

felix said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+2)
LAB: 33% (-1)
LDEM: 8% (-)
GRN: 7% (-2)
REFUK: 3% (-)

via @YouGov
, 05 - 06 Aug
Chgs. w/ 29 Jul


Britain Elects
@BritainElects
·
1h
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+1)
LAB: 33% (-1)
LDEM: 10% (-)
GRN: 4% (-2)

via @SavantaComRes
, 06 - 08 Aug
Chgs. w/ 01 Aug

33% is what Labour polled at the last general election.

Andy_JS said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Speaking of gaslighting, I'm an inveterate player of Words with Friends (though it's pretty much in the filling in the time I have left to me category). I've just realised that more than half my opponents are identikit - shortish woman's name followed by initial, profile pic of dog or cat. How can I have been so unobservant?! They actually have a weekly play against bots feature but that's obviously not enough for them.

I'm not sure what this new meaning of "gaslighting" is. For me, it still mainly means a light that uses gas.

Philip_Thompson said:

OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.

I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.

You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.

Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.

Case closed.

slade said:

There are 6 local by-elections today. 3 are in Scotland so beware about predictions - but there are 2 Ind defences in Highland and Lab in North Ayrshire. In England there a Lab defence in Tower Hamlets, a Con defence in East Suffolk, and a LD defence in South Lakeland.