OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
It is zero. You can make whatever sinister insinuations about "watch lists" as you please. There are zero named EngNat far right people here and there are zero named mainstream EngNat far right parties.
You can continue trying to make unsubstantiated gaslighting allegations against my philosophy all you please but it is over. The Labour Party was investigated for antisemitism and the Labour Party was found wanting by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. That's what you chose to use as your benchmark, so if you want to name anything comparable to that then be my guess but this bullshit of yours is over now.
You're like a religious fanatic asking me to prove there is no God, while having no evidence that there is one. Just because you believe that something is real doesn't make it true, the scientific method requires evidence and of that you have absolutely nothing whatsoever.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
And I'm sure it is a real and growing concern. As the article says, 10 of 29 plots over the past four years were motivated by this.
At the same time, one of the reasons I thought, say, Spooks was frustrating was because all the "baddies" weren't allowed to be from groupings that had actually conducted terrorist attacks on the UK in recent years and were almost without exception (before I stopped watching), Americans, Israelis, etc.
It's just political correctness gone mad woke on behalf of the BBC.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
It's on the rise and a real concern. As to the other political sentiments of these people, you never can tell, but I'd wager there are precious few internationalist, open border types with a hankering for ambitious net zero targets and a close relationship with the European single market.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling
I knew the headline would be the worst if it!
The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27
“Key findings in the poll show:
* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).
* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.
* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”
Con 41 Lab 30
The first double digit Tory lead for a month
Dead cat bounce?
It is quite remarkable that the theme last week when the polls had narrowed was no one is interested in opinion polls three years out from a GE. Now they have widened they have become interesting again.
Just finished on site and have bought my late M & S lunch to eat in the car before returning home. Excellent maskage in Yate. Much better than back home in Wales.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
I imagine a leadership challenge will happen if Labour go below 30%
A Conservative leadership challenge?
That would make good sense, actually. Since Boris is seen as good at winning elections, but universally acknowledged to be absolutely dire at actually governing, Labour below 30% might be seen as giving the Tories enough electoral space to substitute someone vaguely competent.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
Convenience sample, Philip. Take yourself off to Con Home for a bit as punishment.
(You might get away with it if you do a quick focus group and call it a qualitative study or at least mixed methods).
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
Might be worth considering whether you need to capitalise the Nat bit. The PBtories do confuse Scottish nationalism/independistism with SNP membership. Vide HYUFD, Candy etc.
It's an interesting one. There's no logical reason why ardent English nationalist sentiment should be correlated to the fruitier end of right wing politics but such is undeniably the case. I have yet to come across a person attracted to the first who is not also a Hard Leaver and (at the very least) clearly on the right of the political spectrum.
Imperialism and colonialism an element?
An almost certain Yes. It's imo a factor in most things.
In which case, how does one differentiate between
(a) british nationalism (definitely a thing, esp. in recent incomers, and validly so) (b) English nationalism, with imperial/colonial attitudes to Scotland etc. (c) people who are thoroughly confused and assume that England = GB anyway?
And then we have the other kind of English nationalism = independentaism analogous to SNP and PC.
I'm not sure. One'd need to probe them. Rather someone else in the flying saucer than me. But the Spanich/Catalans distinguish between (in translation) nationalists and independentists. We could do with that here.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
Convenience sample, Philip. Take yourself off to Con Home for a bit as punishment.
(You might get away with it if you do a quick focus group and call it a qualitative study or at least mixed methods).
Since kinabalu is the one making a disputed claim, Burden of Proof requires he provides the evidence to warrant it, not that I provide evidence to prove a negative.
Since he has provided zero evidence to substantiate his claim, I invoke Hitchen's Razor to dismiss the claim.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
Come now. There is more joy in leftist circles over one toff/rich person who repenteth* than over ninety and nine lowly working folk who did never get rich and always voted Labour.
*This doesn't necessarily require giving up the money
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
It is zero. You can make whatever sinister insinuations about "watch lists" as you please. There are zero named EngNat far right people here and there are zero named mainstream EngNat far right parties.
You can continue trying to make unsubstantiated gaslighting allegations against my philosophy all you please but it is over. The Labour Party was investigated for antisemitism and the Labour Party was found wanting by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. That's what you chose to use as your benchmark, so if you want to name anything comparable to that then be my guess but this bullshit of yours is over now.
You're like a religious fanatic asking me to prove there is no God, while having no evidence that there is one. Just because you believe that something is real doesn't make it true, the scientific method requires evidence and of that you have absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Links, Philip, that's all. Links and correlation. Links and correlation to be (hopefully) looked into by you one day. You're wandering over the hills and far away with all of this now. If you've taken any of it to mean I'm saying all (or even most) ardent English Nationalists are far righters - or that I'm hinting that YOU are - then you've got the wrong end of the stick. And since you clearly have taken it that way, the wrong end of the stick is indeed what you have got.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as diehard Remainers wanted as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
Up 4 from last month, and the VI lead is 11 with Boris’s ratings improving and Sir Keir’s falling
I knew the headline would be the worst if it!
The all important ‘Satisfaction’ numbers are Boris 41 Sir Keir 27
“Key findings in the poll show:
* The Conservatives maintain a strong lead over Labour, on 41 per cent (up one percentage point on July) compared to 30 per cent (down one percentage point).
* Mr Johnson still has a negative net satisfaction rating, at -11, with 41 per cent satisfied and 52 per cent dissatisfied, though this is a slight improvement from July’s -16 net rating.
* Sir Keir Starmer has seen his net satisfaction drop marginally, from -23 to -26, driven by the proportion dissatisfied rising from 50 per cent to 53 per cent.”
Con 41 Lab 30
The first double digit Tory lead for a month
Dead cat bounce?
It is quite remarkable that the theme last week when the polls had narrowed was no one is interested in opinion polls three years out from a GE. Now they have widened they have become interesting again.
Just finished on site and have bought my late M & S lunch to eat in the car before returning home. Excellent maskage in Yate. Much better than back home in Wales.
On this site opinion polls are always interesting although the headers do seem to favour certain ones...
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
Convenience sample, Philip. Take yourself off to Con Home for a bit as punishment.
(You might get away with it if you do a quick focus group and call it a qualitative study or at least mixed methods).
Since kinabalu is the one making a disputed claim, Burden of Proof requires he provides the evidence to warrant it, not that I provide evidence to prove a negative.
Since he has provided zero evidence to substantiate his claim, I invoke Hitchen's Razor to dismiss the claim.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
It is zero. You can make whatever sinister insinuations about "watch lists" as you please. There are zero named EngNat far right people here and there are zero named mainstream EngNat far right parties.
You can continue trying to make unsubstantiated gaslighting allegations against my philosophy all you please but it is over. The Labour Party was investigated for antisemitism and the Labour Party was found wanting by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. That's what you chose to use as your benchmark, so if you want to name anything comparable to that then be my guess but this bullshit of yours is over now.
You're like a religious fanatic asking me to prove there is no God, while having no evidence that there is one. Just because you believe that something is real doesn't make it true, the scientific method requires evidence and of that you have absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Links, Philip, that's all. Links and correlation. Links and correlation to be (hopefully) looked into by you one day. You're wandering over the hills and far away with all of this now. If you've taken any of it to mean I'm saying all (or even most) ardent English Nationalists are far righters - or that I'm hinting that YOU are - then you've got the wrong end of the stick. And since you clearly have taken it that way, the wrong end of the stick is indeed what you have got.
There are no links.
English nationalism is no more and no less than a belief that England should be a self-governing nation. You have not provided a single link between that and racism. Therefore your claims are without evidence and dismissed. That is how philosophy works, you make a claim, you need to provide evidence to warrant it.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
No.
Bit shocking that you're deciding that people who at various times have described themselves as English nationalists are wrong about this. More than a whiff of the metropolitan elite talking down to the fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists.
LDs turn hawk, attacking Biden for abandoning Afghanistan.
Davey is clearly a classicial liberal in the Paddy Ashdown, Gladstone mode, fiscally conservative, internationalist and interventionist abroad but pro civil liberties and good on him. This is no longer the more social democratic, pacifist party of Charles Kennedy, most of them are now in Labour or the Greens https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
I have done a quick web search on English nationalists, and have reached an exciting conclusion.
Ready? Here we go:
English nationalism is a concept that is almost exclusively cited by people who are not English nationalists, and profess to disagree completely with all of the mostly non-existent people who are.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
Well Labour is the natural fit for my genuine politics. But, ok, say I could roleplay that to suit, as I guess some careerists do, which party would a person with my CV and background be more likely to prosper in? It's a great question and I truly don't know. Could be either of the main ones and neither could we rule out the Liberal Democrats (although given it's for career purposes perhaps we can).
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
I have done a quick web search on English nationalists, and have reached an exciting conclusion.
Ready? Here we go:
English nationalism is a concept that is almost exclusively cited by people who are not English nationalists, and profess to disagree completely with all of the mostly non-existent people who are.
Are you proposing that Phil 'English nationalist when he's not being British nationalist' Thompson is the exception that proves the rule?
And the other one out today is 41-30 Con over Lab, with Sir Keir on -26 net satisfaction.
I'm expecting the next thread on here to be about these polls.
Why release a Starmer is crap header when every thread evolves into a Starmer is crap thread anyway?
For consistency Starmer is indeed crap, which is a disappointing shame.
Starmer's crapness is not sufficient to explain the polling. It is the perception and the reality of the contemporary Labour Party that is giving the Tories an undeserved boost.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
Well Labour is the natural fit for my genuine politics. But, ok, say I could roleplay that to suit, as I guess some careerists do, which party would a person with my CV and background be more likely to prosper in? It's a great question and I truly don't know. Could be either of the main ones and neither could we rule out the Liberal Democrats (although given it's for career purposes perhaps we can).
Living in Remain central Hampstead obviously rules out the Tories, however having worked in the City still probably rules out Labour, so I guess the LDs
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
Speaking of gaslighting, I'm an inveterate player of Words with Friends (though it's pretty much in the filling in the time I have left to me category). I've just realised that more than half my opponents are identikit - shortish woman's name followed by initial, profile pic of dog or cat. How can I have been so unobservant?! They actually have a weekly play against bots feature but that's obviously not enough for them.
I'm not sure what this new meaning of "gaslighting" is. For me, it still mainly means a light that uses gas.
"Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.
The term “gaslighting” comes from a play and subsequent movie called “Gaslight.” In the movie, the devious husband, played by Charles Boyer, manipulates and torments his wife, played by Ingrid Bergman, to convince her she’s going mad."
So if you have a blue front door you paint it red while your spouse is away and they come back and say I'm sure it used to be blue and you say No, it's been red as long as we've lived here, and they think they are going mad. Term is used more widely to mean just misleading people.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
LDs turn hawk, attacking Biden for abandoning Afghanistan.
Davey is clearly a classicial liberal in the Paddy Ashdown, Gladstone mode, fiscally conservative, internationalist and interventionist abroad but pro civil liberties and good on him. This is no longer the more social democratic, pacifist party of Charles Kennedy, most of them are now in Labour or the Greens https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20
The timing for such a party is ripe because the new political polarities are morphing from left versus right to freedom versus control.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
No.
Bit shocking that you're deciding that people who at various times have described themselves as English nationalists are wrong about this. More than a whiff of the metropolitan elite talking down to the fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists.
English nationalism is the belief that England should be a self-governing, independent nation. That's what the word means.
I see nothing from the EDL to say they have that belief. All I see from them is racism. I don't care what they self-identify as, or what flag they try to misappropriate, if they're not advocating for that then they're not English nationalists.
And the other one out today is 41-30 Con over Lab, with Sir Keir on -26 net satisfaction.
I'm expecting the next thread on here to be about these polls.
Why release a Starmer is crap header when every thread evolves into a Starmer is crap thread anyway?
For consistency Starmer is indeed crap, which is a disappointing shame.
Starmer's crapness is not sufficient to explain the polling. It is the perception and the reality of the contemporary Labour Party that is giving the Tories an undeserved boost.
As I commented earlier, the damage Corbyn has caused the Labour brand is calamitous and Starmer would have an uphill struggle even if he had charisma and charm
I just do not know how Labour become electable in the next few years
I have done a quick web search on English nationalists, and have reached an exciting conclusion.
Ready? Here we go:
English nationalism is a concept that is almost exclusively cited by people who are not English nationalists, and profess to disagree completely with all of the mostly non-existent people who are.
Are you proposing that Phil 'English nationalist when he's not being British nationalist' Thompson is the exception that proves the rule?
Sort of? Mostly I'm saying that it doesn't really matter, since the number of people who actually describe themselves as English Nationalists is so vanishingly small compared to the number on the other side who won't shut up about them. It seems to be like referring to Labour MPs as Communists, and then pointing out that Communists are Bad.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
Speaking of gaslighting, I'm an inveterate player of Words with Friends (though it's pretty much in the filling in the time I have left to me category). I've just realised that more than half my opponents are identikit - shortish woman's name followed by initial, profile pic of dog or cat. How can I have been so unobservant?! They actually have a weekly play against bots feature but that's obviously not enough for them.
I'm not sure what this new meaning of "gaslighting" is. For me, it still mainly means a light that uses gas.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
No - his response to selective use by you of polling
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
No - his response to selective use by you of polling
Indeed, the poll I refer to specifically makes people assume there would be a forced choice (e.g. if the Scots vote had been enough to make the difference between No and Yes in Brexit, which was a real possibility at the time).
Speaking of gaslighting, I'm an inveterate player of Words with Friends (though it's pretty much in the filling in the time I have left to me category). I've just realised that more than half my opponents are identikit - shortish woman's name followed by initial, profile pic of dog or cat. How can I have been so unobservant?! They actually have a weekly play against bots feature but that's obviously not enough for them.
I'm not sure what this new meaning of "gaslighting" is. For me, it still mainly means a light that uses gas.
I shudder to think what you make of catfishing.
Fishing for mogs? Or looking for large and rather ugly teleosts?
Chise DNAPetri dishMicrobeSyringe @sailorrooscout Published in the New England Journal of Medicine today. Peer-reviewed. Large sample size. Sound methodology. Real-world data. Pfizer’s and AstraZeneca’s vaccines are highly effective against the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant.
Prince Andrew: Refusal to talk to Epstein investigators ‘straining relations between UK and America’
… the lack of information-sharing had caused diplomatic strain, with US law enforcement and diplomats raising the matter with their British counterparts.
The lack of cooperation now spans three years of reported attempts by the US authorities to gather facts from the royal who, in a statement from 2019, said he would be willing to help US law-enforcement with investigations. However, in January last year, Manhattan US attorney Geoffrey Berman said the country’s authorities had received “zero cooperation” from the prince…
Of particular interest to the US authorities is how money transfers may be linked to the movement of young women and girls. The various interested bodies, including the FBI, believe these may offer insights into ongoing organised criminal operations.
The authorities’ interests are understood to include multiple trips by the royal to Epstein’s Caribbean island, Little St James, as well as Florida and New York. Last year, prosecutors in the US Virgin Islands, which includes Little St James, alleged Mr Epstein abused hundreds of young women and girls up until 2018.
Given the US refuse to hand over Anne Sacoolas tough.
Perhaps they could also look a bit more into Bill Clinton and Bill Gates' links to Epstein before lecturing us
This Windsor scandal is clearly touching a raw Tory nerve. Hardly news. I expect a veritable infestation of squirrels in the coming months and years. Poor old Harry and Meghan.
Shame on you HY. If the Tories had an ounce of decency they would be encouraging the coward prince to get on a trans-Atlantic plane and face the charges, as he promised to do in 2019.
1. The US criminal authorities have charged Ghislaine Maxwell. As part of that they may be seeking evidence from Andrew as a potential witness. There is no necessity for him to fly to the US to do this. He would be well advised not to in any case until the basis on which such discussions are had is clear & there is clear agreement on what use can & cannot be made of whatever he says. This is because there are various protections in law - both English & the US - and everyone is entitled to use them. There are dangers in volunteering evidence without doing so. There are also issues for the US authorities because evidence gathered in such a way may not be admissible in any subsequent trial
Believe me, I have advised a number of people in similar circumstances & any good lawyer would be very wary about telling a client to go to the US to speak to the criminal authorities there just because they ask.
The US authorities - whether criminal or regulatory - are very willing to grandstand in public to bully people into ignoring their rights. They will often try to ignore different legal requirements in overseas jurisdictions because (a) it is just plain inconvenient for them or (b) it stops them doing what they want.
2. The US criminal authorities have not charged Andrew with anything. Extradition is irrelevant.
3. He now faces a civil suit in the US - brought just before the limitation period expires. It is not entirely clear whether the allegation is that he had sex with a minor or had sex with someone over the age of consent without her consent (rape, in other words) or something else. There is an issue as to jurisdiction because the acts complained of, AFAIU, happened in the UK.
It really does not matter whether he is an HRH or not. He is entitled to the same legal protections as everyone else including the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. There is something unseemly in the way that people rush to assume that because he appears to be an entitled twit he must therefore be guilty of serious crimes. Some of the comments made about him on social media are seriously defamatory. Equally, he is subject to the law as everyone else.
There will be strategic & tactical decisions which his lawyers will have to consider. In addition, he - and his advisors - need to consider the impact of his behaviour on the rest of his family.
Much of what is written in the papers about this is ill-informed nonsense.
I have no idea who is telling the truth here. I do think Andrew was ill-advised to give that interview. But in any event, the matter is now in the hands of the lawyers and, from what I know, some of those advising him are very good indeed. I hope for his sake that he listens to good advice. He clearly hasn't in the past.
You'd have thought courtiers or someone might have warned him about Epstein. But there again Epstein managed to get into his orbit people far far cleverer than Andrew - Clinton, Gates etc. So what does that say about them?
One of the many depressing things about Epstein is that his whole career was a tissue of lies and fantasies and yet somehow he persuaded some very bright people to overlook that. His whole fortune that allowed him to get away with so much for so long was built on his fraudulently claiming qualifications and experience he didn’t have for a first job yet even when he was found out, he wasn’t fired because he was so eloquent in his defence.
His ability to deceive and manipulate was really quite extraordinary and that was one reason he got away with so much.
He was also an expert in law, and knew very well what was the age of consent in each jurisdiction in which he operated.
Yes, he’d go out of his way to find places where the age of consent was 14 or 15, rather than the 17 or 18 that’s usual in the USA. It doesn’t mean that people did anything illegal, and most of the comments now are more about shaming than exposing actual illegality.
Being above the age of consent does not mean you can legally be coerced to have sex, so it doesn't mean they didn't do anything illegal, either. Hence the case against (for example) Maxwell.
Indeed. And so far the allegations have been that Epstein and Maxwell coerced the girls into having sex with their friends. Of course this could mean that those friends believed that the girls consented to sex. Now an allegation is being made that the person who allegedly had sex with them was also involved in the coercion. But that is, bluntly, an allegation of rape.
So why isn't that allegation made to the criminal authorities in the U.K. where the alleged rape happened? Rather than in a civil suit for damages in the U.K.
I wonder if Joe Root is regretting putting India in. They’ve nearly got enough for the innings win already.
I doubt it would have made any difference
England do not give me any confidence they can win a test match
Its not helped by playing against the No. 2 best side in the world, shortly after playing the No.1 side. We have issues for sure, but we've not reached 1990's levels just yet.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
LDs turn hawk, attacking Biden for abandoning Afghanistan.
Davey is clearly a classicial liberal in the Paddy Ashdown, Gladstone mode, fiscally conservative, internationalist and interventionist abroad but pro civil liberties and good on him. This is no longer the more social democratic, pacifist party of Charles Kennedy, most of them are now in Labour or the Greens https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20
The timing for such a party is ripe because the new political polarities are morphing from left versus right to freedom versus control.
I wonder if Joe Root is regretting putting India in. They’ve nearly got enough for the innings win already.
I doubt it would have made any difference
England do not give me any confidence they can win a test match
Its not helped by playing against the No. 2 best side in the world, shortly after playing the No.1 side. We have issues for sure, but we've not reached 1990's levels just yet.
Paul Naisbitt Blue heartFlag of DenmarkFlag of European UnionRainbow Woke @paulnaisbitt_dk I’ve noticed a number of tweets referring to the Secretary of State for Education and his bout of amnesia regarding his A level grades. Just to put the record straight, the said individual got 3 grade E’s and managed to get a place at Bradford University through clearing.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
I was discussing the poll results of a poll BEFORE Brexit with reference to what they were indicating at the time, which was the presence of one indicator of English rather than British nationalism. I was not discussing anything else or what had happened since in Scotland.
You came along and dumped a dead whale of irrelevant polling on the nice conversation i was having with my PB chums and tried to cover it in composted data and rotting polls. And have tried to claim I was talking about something else completely.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
And if you think Brexit has been delivered I have a dead whale to sell [edit] you. Clue: inward customs. Clue: Northern Ireland.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
Well Labour is the natural fit for my genuine politics. But, ok, say I could roleplay that to suit, as I guess some careerists do, which party would a person with my CV and background be more likely to prosper in? It's a great question and I truly don't know. Could be either of the main ones and neither could we rule out the Liberal Democrats (although given it's for career purposes perhaps we can).
I'm not sure that the bulk of Lab members would find it difficult.
Keir Starmer's latest @IpsosMORI net satisfaction of -26 mirrors some of his unsuccessful predecessors at the same point into their leadership...
Miliband: -25 Hague: -25 Kinnock: -25
At this stage, Blair was scoring +25 and Cameron -4
Kinnock is the fair comparison, taking over from Foot. I maintain he is not very good but it would not make much difference if he was. His job is to be the opposite of Corbyn and set it up for the next leader.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
Very happy to be inconsistent with David Cameron.
But presumably less happy to be inconsistent with Margaret Thatcher?
Yes, but not on everything. She made a number of mistakes.
Keir Starmer's latest @IpsosMORI net satisfaction of -26 mirrors some of his unsuccessful predecessors at the same point into their leadership...
Miliband: -25 Hague: -25 Kinnock: -25
At this stage, Blair was scoring +25 and Cameron -4
Kinnock is the fair comparison, taking over from Foot. I maintain he is not very good but it would not make much difference if he was. His job is to be the opposite of Corbyn and set it up for the next leader.
Paul Naisbitt Blue heartFlag of DenmarkFlag of European UnionRainbow Woke @paulnaisbitt_dk I’ve noticed a number of tweets referring to the Secretary of State for Education and his bout of amnesia regarding his A level grades. Just to put the record straight, the said individual got 3 grade E’s and managed to get a place at Bradford University through clearing.
A trenchant and resolutely correct assessment from Timothy Garton Ash - what is happening in Poland represents a major challenge to the EU. Let’s hope the Commission and other EU institutions finally wake up to confront this threat. https://twitter.com/MishaGlenny/status/1425736114464337926
Hope is all we can do, since we have given up the influence we had.
Surely the EU is not so fragile that it cannot deal with misbehaviour in its ranks without the UK? Presumably if the UK is concerned with what is happening in Poland or Hungary or anywhere else for that matter it can use it's diplomats as it always has.
Indeed the Poles are quite likely to sort it out themselves. The government coalition may well fall apart over the issue.
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
And if you think Brexit has been delivered I have a dead whale to sell [edit] you. Clue: inward customs. Clue: Northern Ireland.
Brexit has been delivered with a trade deal with the EU, the fact NI has measures to avoid a hard border in Ireland unlike GB does not change that
Paul Naisbitt Blue heartFlag of DenmarkFlag of European UnionRainbow Woke @paulnaisbitt_dk I’ve noticed a number of tweets referring to the Secretary of State for Education and his bout of amnesia regarding his A level grades. Just to put the record straight, the said individual got 3 grade E’s and managed to get a place at Bradford University through clearing.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
No.
Bit shocking that you're deciding that people who at various times have described themselves as English nationalists are wrong about this. More than a whiff of the metropolitan elite talking down to the fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists.
English nationalism is the belief that England should be a self-governing, independent nation. That's what the word means.
I see nothing from the EDL to say they have that belief. All I see from them is racism. I don't care what they self-identify as, or what flag they try to misappropriate, if they're not advocating for that then they're not English nationalists.
The EDL do believe that England should be a self-governing, independent nation.
They just don't believe it should include 'foreigners', particularly those from one particular religious background. Not very far to the right of Farage, his fellow travellers and those who have ever voted for him.
As some of you may know, following my granddaughter's excellent A level results she starts at Leeds University in September on a 5 year course in Japanese and Italian language and culture.
However, this morning Leeds University are offering some students (my granddaughter is not affected) £10,000 and free accommodation to defer their courses
As a matter of interest how are these grants funded
Congrats to her. That's a long stint, 5 years, so I hope she enjoys it. My brother is a Prof at Leeds Uni, btw, but not on the languages side of things.
Yes, good for her. Leeds feels an amazing place to be at the minute. Cutting edge, but not too big to be impersonal.
Good timing on the Uni front too - should be more trad student life and less digital from next year onwards. It's all been a bit sad apparently during the pandemic. And no fees refund of course.
Yes the whole student thing will have been, sadly, watered down somewhat. I do feel really sorry for young people throughout this whole thing, uni students or not. If I'd missed being able to go out and get plastered and/or laid for an 18 month period anywhere between being 17 and 25-ish, life would have been much more miserable. Particularly the 18-21 years.
There was a bit of a kerfuffle about the students hanging out in the studenty areas of Leeds, no social distancing all that jazz, and those areas did have huge covid numbers, but I don't blame them. I'd've done exactly the same at their age.
Face-to-face teaching will be better too!
I'm ashamed to say that my uni time was pretty much 0% doing a degree and 100% "exploring my new status as a young adult". I'd go for more of a 50/50, given my time again, but of course that's by definition a nonsense. Given my time again I'd do exactly the same.
Completely justifying a slimmed down 2 year degree - why on earth they should be subsidised piss-ups at the expense of w/c taxpayers is utterly beyond me.
So let's get the working class in there in size and break down the citadel. Fund it from (inter alia) higher rate and wealth tax. Replace the Politics of Envy with that of Aspiration.
Either way - 'finding yourself' at taxpayers' expense by going on the piss for 3 years is a waste of dosh. The irony of your last sentence coming from a socialist is quite breathtaking.
Thinking cap, Felix. And not for the first time.
Plus I'm not a socialist, I'm a hard left social democrat.
Very rich hard left social democrat.
But look it really doesn't matter.
Correct. I'm not imo "very rich" but it doesn't matter for these purposes. Political discourse is utterly corrupted otherwise. Invokig the personal finances of a person on the left is a classic way in which the right seek to police who can validly be on the left. Reducing the number to as close to zero as possible is the aim. It's bollox. I have no time for it.
Neither did Polly but it has relevance.
You want a more equal society (huzzah) but are happy to benefit from society's quirks (your hard work in this case to get a job not as a hospital porter, but as a [insert your previous list of chartered accountant, bond trader, blah, blah]). As such you are benefiting from an unequal society while advocating an equal one.
Should you give up all your wealth?
Well, yes. Yes you should. Otherwise you undermine your position and lay yourself open to the charge of hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do-ism.
Plenty of charities, tax, HMRC, you name it as willing recipients. Why this very morning Ben Wadham moved me to set up a standing order for the Veterans Foundation. Perhaps a scroll through justgiving might be your next move.
Hmm, let's see now, should I give away all my money so as to improve my standing with right wingers on the internet?
You've put me in a quandary here, damn you.
Nah you should give away all your money so as to improve your standing with left wingers in the UK.
As if. No, we hold no truck with that sort of nonsense. I know you're trolling anyway. The other week - re the footballers - you were rather effective (by your standards) on the correct side of this argument.
What about this thought experiment.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
Well Labour is the natural fit for my genuine politics. But, ok, say I could roleplay that to suit, as I guess some careerists do, which party would a person with my CV and background be more likely to prosper in? It's a great question and I truly don't know. Could be either of the main ones and neither could we rule out the Liberal Democrats (although given it's for career purposes perhaps we can).
Living in Remain central Hampstead obviously rules out the Tories, however having worked in the City still probably rules out Labour, so I guess the LDs
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
And if you think Brexit has been delivered I have a dead whale to sell [edit] you. Clue: inward customs. Clue: Northern Ireland.
Brexit has been delivered with a trade deal with the EU, the fact NI has measures to avoid a hard border in Ireland unlike GB does not change that
The courier service failed to deliver 1 of the two packages of my Screwfix order this week. I don't call that 'delivered'.
I wonder if Joe Root is regretting putting India in. They’ve nearly got enough for the innings win already.
It was a classic example of a toss you'd be happy to lose...
The secret, if you win the toss, is to bat first.
Unless there are exceptional reasons, in which case think carefully about it, scratch your chin a bit and, after serious consideration and soul-searching, bat first.
And the other one out today is 41-30 Con over Lab, with Sir Keir on -26 net satisfaction.
I'm expecting the next thread on here to be about these polls.
Why release a Starmer is crap header when every thread evolves into a Starmer is crap thread anyway?
For consistency Starmer is indeed crap, which is a disappointing shame.
Starmer's crapness is not sufficient to explain the polling. It is the perception and the reality of the contemporary Labour Party that is giving the Tories an undeserved boost.
As I commented earlier, the damage Corbyn has caused the Labour brand is calamitous and Starmer would have an uphill struggle even if he had charisma and charm
I just do not know how Labour become electable in the next few years
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
And if you think Brexit has been delivered I have a dead whale to sell [edit] you. Clue: inward customs. Clue: Northern Ireland.
Brexit has been delivered with a trade deal with the EU, the fact NI has measures to avoid a hard border in Ireland unlike GB does not change that
The courier service failed to deliver 1 of the two packages of my Screwfix order this week. I don't call that 'delivered'.
Whereas Parliament ensured that Britain has exited the EU. British Exit.
Paul Naisbitt Blue heartFlag of DenmarkFlag of European UnionRainbow Woke @paulnaisbitt_dk I’ve noticed a number of tweets referring to the Secretary of State for Education and his bout of amnesia regarding his A level grades. Just to put the record straight, the said individual got 3 grade E’s and managed to get a place at Bradford University through clearing.
So he outright lied? He said as soon as he opened the grades he knew he was guaranteed to go to Bradford. Would that be the case with clearing?
I'm not sure it'll be as damaging as people think, politically speaking, just because it's so difficult to justify an 8% increase for the old at a time when the young are getting completely screwed.
The Triple Lock, like the FTPA and so much else the Heir to Blair did is long overdue for the scrapheap.
This is the problem with Tories: you are so inconsistent. Johnson has ditched pretty much everything Cameron, Major and Thatcher ever did. The obvious conclusion is that one day a future Tory PM will ditch everything Johnson does.
The modern iteration of the Tory party:
- English Nationalist, not One Nation - Revolutionary, not Conservative - High tax/high debt, not Friedman - State control, not free market - Social engineering, not conservatism - Nasty, not paternal - Reactive, not confident - Populist, not principled - Clown, not competence - Degenerate, not moral - Cash for pals, not good governance - Fiscal spaffing, not fiscal moderation - Fuck business, not pro business - Proroguing parliament, not the rule of law - Lying to the monarch, not respecting institutions - Authoritarian, not liberal - Corruption, not ethics
The only constant is the blue rosettes.
The Conservative Party used to be one that I could disagree with but respect as a British institution. That party is gone and the thing that has replaced it has no ideology, which is really sad, to be honest.
According to party loyalist HYUFD it has transmogrified into the English Nationalist Party. The honest thing to do would be to change the name, as that more accurately reflects the nature of the organisation. But alas honesty is not one of their core characteristics.
The notion that the Tories are an English Nationalist Party is completely farcical. As much as I would want it to be one, it very clearly isn't.
If the Tories were then they'd be pushing for a second Scottish independence referendum and pushing for a Yes vote in that. Is that happening? I don't think so.
One wonders why you feel so at home as an English Nationalist and those that aren't, have resigned or been kicked out, if what you are saying is true.
Because its not true.
The ones who resigned or got kicked out were those who were European nationalists and couldn't cope with their grief at losing their European identity.
England wasn't here nor there for that.
What has Brexit got to do with European identity? Whether you like it or not, England/the UK is within the continent of Europe. We will always be European.
Even your mate BoJo said that when the referendum result came in. Your pathetic EDL-lite style posturing shows through in this post.
Perhaps you should ask yourself - but I am sure you don't care - why the Tory Party has abandoned so many people that voted for it for decades. And whether you think that's right.
Your naivety is astonishing.
What the heck has the continent of Europe got to do with being in the European Union?
Should those in Alberta or Quebec or Jalisco be considered Americans and join the United States of America?
That's got nothing to do with England, or EDL or anything else. If you're so childish and puerile as you consider that being in a continent means you must be part of a union then that's just farcical.
Anyway the Tory Party has not abandoned so many that voted for it for decades. The Tory Party got more voters than it has in decades. So yes I absolutely 100% think that's right and anyone so undemocratic as to like you equate Brexit with "EDL" or English nationalism absolutely should be told to take a cold shower until they stop being so silly.
Absolutely not a personal inference about you but did you ever take my recommendation and check out the links between Eng Nat and the far right?
There are no links.
Since I can't examine inside your head for what you fictionalise, I can't do much more than that.
You've looked into it and found that there are no links? I find this hard to believe. I think you haven't looked into it.
No, there are no links to look into.
That's like me saying to look into the links between ASFsdnbvjisfgadf and GFDGHSUIGSFcassd. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to dismiss it as gibberish?
That's a rather silly response. But, ok, if you want to stay in blissful ignorance about the seamy end of Eng Nat, pretend it's not there, that's your prerogative. I can't force you to take a look at it. I'm a bit surprised you'd take the approach of the far left to their links with antisemitism, but it's a funny old world sometimes.
I have an issue with the links between the then leader of the Labour Party and antisemitism. Or others high up in the Labour Party and antisemitism.
Since there is no English National Party, there by default can not be any such links between them and the far right because the first part of your fictional link does not exist.
Things that don't exist, can't be linked to other things. In order to be linked, it must first actually exist.
Yes, I'm talking about Eng Nat political activism rather than any particular party.
That's meaningless gibberish.
There's no mainstream Eng Nat political activism, it is currently a fringe idea. I would like the Tories to embrace it and I advocate it, but its currently on the fringes and so isn't associated with any party.
The issue with antisemitism is not with fringe activisim that doesn't engage with any party, it isn't that there were fringe leftwingers some of whom were racist - there is sadly a racist minority in all philosophies - it was when the Labour Party became institutionally infested with and led by antisemites.
Your trying to conflate a philosophy with a party being led by an outright antisemite is just pure distractionism. If a mainstream party embraces Eng Nat activism then we would be able to judge that party as and when it does by how it acts.
There's no need to panic and try to reframe what I'm saying so as to be able to call it gibberish.
Yes, ardent Eng Nat is fringe not mainstream. And thank heavens for this since - as I say - it's strongly correlated to the sort of hard and reactionary right wing politics that nobody wishes to see except for its proponents.
Of course you would know all this if you were to look into it.
No you are making up lies because they suit your agenda.
It is not correlated to anything, since it isn't at the fore. Only when it comes to the fore can you see what it is associated with.
This convo reminds me of 2013-14. I would talk of British nationalism as a thing and the chaps going around waving UJs, saying GSTQ and talking of how the blood of the Somme cried out for a No vote in indyref would look all aggrieved and deny any such thing and claim they were merely being patriotic Brits.
The interesting question is whether the Tories themselves have shifted since then. The party has certainly changed a lot. And it seems indicative that a lot, perhaps a majority, of pro-Brexiters in that poll commissioned by Wings over Scotland before the Brexit vote said that they'd rather have Brexit than keep Scotland in the Union. Okay, the situation has changed since then, but it is prima facie evidence for a certain acceptance of English nationalism, or at least distinct identity, in the demographic that presently tends to vote Tory (plus, admittedly, RefUK etc).
They correctly thought they can have both, the Union and Brexit.
Can't get at it - but the Wings poll was about UK voters, IIRC non-Scots ones. Look that up and then try again.
They correctly knew there would never be a forced choice between Brexit and the Union as this Tory government would deliver the former and ensure the latter with Scotland was preserved too by refusing indyref2 for a generation.
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
That poll was long before the Brexit vote - so that is a massive squirrel-load of hindsight. Zero marks for interpretation.
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
The poll we were talking about was the one I referred to, not the one you dragged in like a lorryload of dead sciurids and dumped all over the floor like an Extinction Rebellion demonstrator pouring fake blood all over Whitehall.
That made me smile
The fact that he and his fellow diehard Remainers were proved completely wrong in saying there was a forced choice between Brexit and the Union?
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
As I made no remark on either, your remarks are completely wrong.
You are completely wrong.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
And if you think Brexit has been delivered I have a dead whale to sell [edit] you. Clue: inward customs. Clue: Northern Ireland.
Brexit has been delivered with a trade deal with the EU, the fact NI has measures to avoid a hard border in Ireland unlike GB does not change that
The courier service failed to deliver 1 of the two packages of my Screwfix order this week. I don't call that 'delivered'.
Whereas Parliament ensured that Britain has exited the EU. British Exit.
Goodwin loves it. He started off some years ago as an academic analyst of social divisions, now his main leitmotif seems to be to promote such divisions.
But I suspect it's not really immigration at all, is it? 'Immigration' is just a proxy for asylum seekers/refugees crossing the Channel. Not at all the same thing as immigration.
OK @kinabalu I have looked into and done a statistical analysis of English nationalist sentiment and the far right.
I have taken the UK's best political blog as a point of reference. There are unabashed English nationalists on this website that post here.
You have in your own judgement determined that there are not any English nationalist far right posters on here.
Therefore by a rigorous statistical analysis, there is an r^2 value of 0 correlating English nationalism with the far right, as per this website and your own opinion.
Case closed.
That's a reasaonable first tack - to look at here. And it's not zero, not at all. There's a couple on 'Watch' as I said - loose use of couple as in 3 or 4 - and plus there's some unsavouries who've been banned in recent weeks. So I'd say this is enough to continue our investigation rather than any sort of excuse to shut it down. YOUR investigation, I mean, since I've already done it.
On a more general note there do seem to be people extremely concerned about far right extremists in the UK. Of course these extremists may have absolutely nothing to do with English Nationalism, but just enjoy prancing about in jackboots and being down on brown people.
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
What has any of that whatsoever got to do with English nationalism?
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Q. Are the English Defence League English nationalists?
No.
Bit shocking that you're deciding that people who at various times have described themselves as English nationalists are wrong about this. More than a whiff of the metropolitan elite talking down to the fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists.
English nationalism is the belief that England should be a self-governing, independent nation. That's what the word means.
I see nothing from the EDL to say they have that belief. All I see from them is racism. I don't care what they self-identify as, or what flag they try to misappropriate, if they're not advocating for that then they're not English nationalists.
The EDL do believe that England should be a self-governing, independent nation.
They just don't believe it should include 'foreigners', particularly those from one particular religious background. Not very far to the right of Farage, his fellow travellers and those who have ever voted for him.
They are definitely English nationalists.
Can you give me a citation please on the EDL believing that England should be independent and apart from Scotland? I've never heard anything about that from them.
They're racist scumbags. No more and no less, don't enlighten them as to being anything other that racist bigots.
Speaking of gaslighting, I'm an inveterate player of Words with Friends (though it's pretty much in the filling in the time I have left to me category). I've just realised that more than half my opponents are identikit - shortish woman's name followed by initial, profile pic of dog or cat. How can I have been so unobservant?! They actually have a weekly play against bots feature but that's obviously not enough for them.
I'm not sure what this new meaning of "gaslighting" is. For me, it still mainly means a light that uses gas.
"Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.
The term “gaslighting” comes from a play and subsequent movie called “Gaslight.” In the movie, the devious husband, played by Charles Boyer, manipulates and torments his wife, played by Ingrid Bergman, to convince her she’s going mad."
So if you have a blue front door you paint it red while your spouse is away and they come back and say I'm sure it used to be blue and you say No, it's been red as long as we've lived here, and they think they are going mad. Term is used more widely to mean just misleading people.
Or, as the modern definition linked puts it:
"Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. "
By which you can see that an accusation of gaslighting - telling someone that they are emotionally abusing you by doing X Y or Z - can very easily itself meet the definition of gaslighting viz. manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories etc.
Very easily manipulable by being the first party to report whatever to whoever.
Comments
'Fastest-growing UK terror threat 'from far-right''
'Violent right-wing extremism is a ‘major threat’ in the UK, MI5 boss says'
'Future Trends: Far-Right Terrorism in the UK – A Major Threat?'
'Racism fuelling far-right threat in UK - MI5's Ken McCallum warns'
You can continue trying to make unsubstantiated gaslighting allegations against my philosophy all you please but it is over. The Labour Party was investigated for antisemitism and the Labour Party was found wanting by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. That's what you chose to use as your benchmark, so if you want to name anything comparable to that then be my guess but this bullshit of yours is over now.
You're like a religious fanatic asking me to prove there is no God, while having no evidence that there is one. Just because you believe that something is real doesn't make it true, the scientific method requires evidence and of that you have absolutely nothing whatsoever.
There is an issue with far right extremism but that's got nothing to do with the belief that England should be a self-governing nation.
Con 41 +1
Lab 30 -1
LDM 13 0
GRN 8 +2
Lead is 11%
At the same time, one of the reasons I thought, say, Spooks was frustrating was because all the "baddies" weren't allowed to be from groupings that had actually conducted terrorist attacks on the UK in recent years and were almost without exception (before I stopped watching), Americans, Israelis, etc.
It's just
political correctness gone madwoke on behalf of the BBC.Geronimo
Just finished on site and have bought my late M & S lunch to eat in the car before returning home. Excellent maskage in Yate. Much better than back home in Wales.
You put yourself up as leader of a political Party. After a very successful career in the City, retiring earlier than many, perhaps most people, living in leafy Hampstead, within striking distance of arguably the best pub in the world.
Which party would be a natural fit for you and which set of party supporters do you think would a) embrace you; or b) reject you.
(You might get away with it if you do a quick focus group and call it a qualitative study or at least mixed methods).
(a) british nationalism (definitely a thing, esp. in recent incomers, and validly so)
(b) English nationalism, with imperial/colonial attitudes to Scotland etc.
(c) people who are thoroughly confused and assume that England = GB anyway?
And then we have the other kind of English nationalism = independentaism analogous to SNP and PC.
I'm not sure. One'd need to probe them. Rather someone else in the flying saucer than me. But the Spanich/Catalans distinguish between (in translation) nationalists and independentists. We could do with that here.
Since kinabalu is the one making a disputed claim, Burden of Proof requires he provides the evidence to warrant it, not that I provide evidence to prove a negative.
Since he has provided zero evidence to substantiate his claim, I invoke Hitchen's Razor to dismiss the claim.
*This doesn't necessarily require giving up the money
As it is most Scots still want to stay in the UK according to all the latest polls post Brexit anyway
I admit, I started it...
English nationalism is no more and no less than a belief that England should be a self-governing nation. You have not provided a single link between that and racism. Therefore your claims are without evidence and dismissed. That is how philosophy works, you make a claim, you need to provide evidence to warrant it.
The film Summer Holiday, Till Death Us Do Part, Give Us A Clue, Sherlock and so much more. What a career! #RIPUnaStubbs #UnaStubbs
https://twitter.com/lizo_mzimba/status/1425825312625991692?s=20
For consistency Starmer is indeed crap, which is a disappointing shame.
Davey is clearly a classicial liberal in the Paddy Ashdown, Gladstone mode, fiscally conservative, internationalist and interventionist abroad but pro civil liberties and good on him. This is no longer the more social democratic, pacifist party of Charles Kennedy, most of them are now in Labour or the Greens
https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1424346315266330629?s=20
Tories meanwhile correctly believed and trusted in Boris
He must have thousands of them and picks one of them that may make his point, no matter the context or the date polled
Ready? Here we go:
English nationalism is a concept that is almost exclusively cited by people who are not English nationalists, and profess to disagree completely with all of the mostly non-existent people who are.
The term “gaslighting” comes from a play and subsequent movie called “Gaslight.” In the movie, the devious husband, played by Charles Boyer, manipulates and torments his wife, played by Ingrid Bergman, to convince her she’s going mad."
https://www.healthline.com/health/gaslighting
So if you have a blue front door you paint it red while your spouse is away and they come back and say I'm sure it used to be blue and you say No, it's been red as long as we've lived here, and they think they are going mad. Term is used more widely to mean just misleading people.
Or the fact that the latest Scottish independence poll also proves him wrong by putting No clearly ahead?
The timing for such a party is ripe because the new political polarities are morphing from left versus right to freedom versus control.
I see nothing from the EDL to say they have that belief. All I see from them is racism. I don't care what they self-identify as, or what flag they try to misappropriate, if they're not advocating for that then they're not English nationalists.
I just do not know how Labour become electable in the next few years
https://order-order.com/2021/08/12/tories-regain-double-digit-lead-over-labour/
England do not give me any confidence they can win a test match
@sailorrooscout
Published in the New England Journal of Medicine today. Peer-reviewed. Large sample size. Sound methodology. Real-world data. Pfizer’s and AstraZeneca’s vaccines are highly effective against the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant.
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1425831267107577856
So why isn't that allegation made to the criminal authorities in the U.K. where the alleged rape happened? Rather than in a civil suit for damages in the U.K.
After the Brexit vote Nats like you and diehard Remainers tried to push a totally false narrative you could only have Brexit or the Union, not both.
Tories and Leavers and many Remainers who respected the vote knew better. Brexit has now been delivered and the latest polling still shows most Scots opposed to independence
Paul Naisbitt Blue heartFlag of DenmarkFlag of European UnionRainbow Woke
@paulnaisbitt_dk
I’ve noticed a number of tweets referring to the Secretary of State for Education and his bout of amnesia regarding his A level grades. Just to put the record straight, the said individual got 3 grade E’s and managed to get a place at Bradford University through clearing.
You came along and dumped a dead whale of irrelevant polling on the nice conversation i was having with my PB chums and tried to cover it in composted data and rotting polls. And have tried to claim I was talking about something else completely.
Cameron Garrett
@CameronGarrett_
·
Keir Starmer's latest @IpsosMORI net satisfaction of -26 mirrors some of his unsuccessful predecessors at the same point into their leadership...
Miliband: -25
Hague: -25
Kinnock: -25
At this stage, Blair was scoring +25 and Cameron -4
@GoodwinMJ
Immigration is now the TOP issue for British Conservative voters"
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1425566046837256193
https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1425216339308945411?s=19
They just don't believe it should include 'foreigners', particularly those from one particular religious background. Not very far to the right of Farage, his fellow travellers and those who have ever voted for him.
They are definitely English nationalists.
Unless there are exceptional reasons, in which case think carefully about it, scratch your chin a bit and, after serious consideration and soul-searching, bat first.
I'd call that 'delivered'.
But I suspect it's not really immigration at all, is it? 'Immigration' is just a proxy for asylum seekers/refugees crossing the Channel. Not at all the same thing as immigration.
Lazy polling, and lazy tweeting.
They're racist scumbags. No more and no less, don't enlighten them as to being anything other that racist bigots.
"Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse that’s seen in abusive relationships. It’s the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. "
By which you can see that an accusation of gaslighting - telling someone that they are emotionally abusing you by doing X Y or Z - can very easily itself meet the definition of gaslighting viz. manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories etc.
Very easily manipulable by being the first party to report whatever to whoever.