The Ipsos-MORI Economic Optimism index jumps to its highest level for six years – politicalbetting.c

Anabobazina said:

kle4 said:

I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.

But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.

But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.

Where is this “general fear”? I was on holiday over Whit half term on the South Coast and fearfulness there was none. Everyone was living it up and pushing the rules to the maximum. It was busy and fun.

darkage said:

(FPT)

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

Foxy said:

Mortimer said:

alex_ said:

I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...

The foreign aid stuff is good for the Govt.

Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.

Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.

Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.

Polling shows lockdown measures are popular...

Lots of people support restrictions on others.

Lots of people support freebies for themselves - in this case the freebies are furlough and working from home.

Yes, that is very much the problem with the Populist agenda of this government. I am glad that you are wising up.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

dixiedean said:

Mortimer said:

alex_ said:

I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...

The foreign aid stuff is good for the Govt.

Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.

Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.

Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.

And yet the polling suggests otherwise. For all the outrage on here.

Andy_JS said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

NickPalmer said:

Leon said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BluestBlue said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff.
Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.

But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.

Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.

Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.

As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?

Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?

This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE

Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?

There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point

At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable

The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic

I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing

Woke is rebellion.

Trans-rights is rebellion.

The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.

Most of the elites in western countries are in favour of those things. Who are they rebelling against? The white working-class in small towns?

rcs1000 said:

Andy_JS said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

NickPalmer said:

Leon said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BluestBlue said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff.
Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.

But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.

Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.

Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.

As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?

Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?

This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE

Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?

There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point

At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable

The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic

I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing

Woke is rebellion.

Trans-rights is rebellion.

The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.

Most of the elites in western countries are in favour of those things. Who are they rebelling against? The white working-class in small towns?

People don't rebel against "elites", they rebel against their parents.

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Surely you mean, "she hasn't got caught committing any crimes".

As I understand, parents (even adopted ones) are always the last to know.

HYUFD said:

Anabobazina said:

dixiedean said:

Mortimer said:

alex_ said:

I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...

The foreign aid stuff is good for the Govt.

Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.

Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.

Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.

And yet the polling suggests otherwise. For all the outrage on here.

The polling is hypothetical isn’t it? How much support is there for delaying 21 June? Will people still support it when it leads to the cancellation of thousands of weddings? Nieces and granddaughters in tears…

If the government wants to fudge it, it could simply extend the WFH mandate.

Many people will just ignore it now or bend the rules to the nth degree on 21st June, we are having a Thanksgiving Service and Reception on 3rd July and will go ahead regardless even if it means having 30 in different sections of a field.

Over 50% of adults have now had their second jabs and are for the most part therefore protected even from the Indian variant, if some refuse to have their jabs tough, otherwise we will never end restrictions

Anabobazina said:

dixiedean said:

Mortimer said:

alex_ said:

I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...

The foreign aid stuff is good for the Govt.

Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.

Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.

Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.

And yet the polling suggests otherwise. For all the outrage on here.

The polling is hypothetical isn’t it? How much support is there for delaying 21 June? Will people still support it when it leads to the cancellation of thousands of weddings? Nieces and granddaughters in tears…

If the government wants to fudge it, it could simply extend the WFH mandate.

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

For all the talk of Bitcoins being safely outside of the authorities of the state - the FBI "recovering" 63.7 Bitcoin, worth $2.3 million, is hilarious.

If the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme can't even help criminals evade the authorities then just what has it got left going for it?

If someone finds out the private key for your Bitcoin wallet, then you will lose *all* your Bitcoins.

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

Nunu3 said:

Boundary review is out

dixiedean said:

Anabobazina said:

dixiedean said:

Mortimer said:

alex_ said:

I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...

The foreign aid stuff is good for the Govt.

Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.

Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.

Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.

And yet the polling suggests otherwise. For all the outrage on here.

The polling is hypothetical isn’t it? How much support is there for delaying 21 June? Will people still support it when it leads to the cancellation of thousands of weddings? Nieces and granddaughters in tears…

If the government wants to fudge it, it could simply extend the WFH mandate.

All polling is hypothetical.
Nothing has broken the iron Tory grip on the polls. Six figure dead didn't. Doubt a few weddings will.

dixiedean said:

MarqueeMark said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

Alternatively, Labour are just shit at governing. Which is why we don't let them do it any more.

As was the accepted reverse opinion some 15-25 years ago.
And will be again.

Nunu3 said:

Boundary review is out

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

NickPalmer said:

Leon said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BluestBlue said:

Northern_Al said:

I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff.
Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.

But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.

Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.

Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.

As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?

Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?

This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE

Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?

There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point

At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable

The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic

I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing

Woke is rebellion.

Trans-rights is rebellion.

The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.

I don’t find it incomprehensible. I find it pitiful

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

They had no requirement to be "properly registered" !

The state never asked them to. They could live, marry, work and vote in elections as they were.

That the state didn't manage its side of the paperwork properly, that the state didn't keep records of who migrated, is on the state, not the people. It isn't the people's job to work for the state's benefit.

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

They had no requirement to be "properly registered" !

The state never asked them to. They could live, marry, work and vote in elections as they were.

That the state didn't manage its side of the paperwork properly, that the state didn't keep records of who migrated, is on the state, not the people. It isn't the people's job to work for the state's benefit.

Yes but the point I was making was the state didnt have those records as they were thrown away and as usual low level civil servants were jobsworths and looked down the list of what was acceptable proof and rejected perfectly fine documents such as tax and rent because they werent on the list. I personally having dealt with many low level public sector workers if they were on fire after some of my experiences such as "We are taking you to court for non payment of poll tax" , "But I mailed you photocopies of the receipts twice now", "I didnt receive them"...stands up in court shows the receipts case dismissed.Next year get the same thing for the same fucking year

However sorry I do disagree with you that you can be here 70 odd years and never think once maybe I should legitimise myself by taking out residence or nationality

Again they were legitimate.

They legitimately had residence.
They legitimately had nationality.
They legitimately could vote.
They legitimately were taxed.
They legitimately were BRITISH CITIZENS!

So what was there to legitimise?

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

They had no requirement to be "properly registered" !

The state never asked them to. They could live, marry, work and vote in elections as they were.

That the state didn't manage its side of the paperwork properly, that the state didn't keep records of who migrated, is on the state, not the people. It isn't the people's job to work for the state's benefit.

Yes but the point I was making was the state didnt have those records as they were thrown away and as usual low level civil servants were jobsworths and looked down the list of what was acceptable proof and rejected perfectly fine documents such as tax and rent because they werent on the list. I personally having dealt with many low level public sector workers if they were on fire after some of my experiences such as "We are taking you to court for non payment of poll tax" , "But I mailed you photocopies of the receipts twice now", "I didnt receive them"...stands up in court shows the receipts case dismissed.Next year get the same thing for the same fucking year

However sorry I do disagree with you that you can be here 70 odd years and never think once maybe I should legitimise myself by taking out residence or nationality

Again they were legitimate.

They legitimately had residence.
They legitimately had nationality.
They legitimately could vote.
They legitimately were taxed.
They legitimately were BRITISH CITIZENS!

So what was there to legitimise?

How then did they get a job, when I apply for one I have to show proof I am allowed to work in the uk. If they had that would be no problem. Same with benefits

How then did they rent anywhere first thing a landlord asks me now is for proof I am legally a uk resident.

I have all the about legitimacy's if i didnt have a passport though wouldnt matter a damn cant open a bank account, get a job claim benefits or rent a house. Why do I need a passport or some other form of id but windrush people dont ?

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

They had no requirement to be "properly registered" !

The state never asked them to. They could live, marry, work and vote in elections as they were.

That the state didn't manage its side of the paperwork properly, that the state didn't keep records of who migrated, is on the state, not the people. It isn't the people's job to work for the state's benefit.

Yes but the point I was making was the state didnt have those records as they were thrown away and as usual low level civil servants were jobsworths and looked down the list of what was acceptable proof and rejected perfectly fine documents such as tax and rent because they werent on the list. I personally having dealt with many low level public sector workers if they were on fire after some of my experiences such as "We are taking you to court for non payment of poll tax" , "But I mailed you photocopies of the receipts twice now", "I didnt receive them"...stands up in court shows the receipts case dismissed.Next year get the same thing for the same fucking year

However sorry I do disagree with you that you can be here 70 odd years and never think once maybe I should legitimise myself by taking out residence or nationality

Again they were legitimate.

They legitimately had residence.
They legitimately had nationality.
They legitimately could vote.
They legitimately were taxed.
They legitimately were BRITISH CITIZENS!

So what was there to legitimise?

How then did they get a job, when I apply for one I have to show proof I am allowed to work in the uk. If they had that would be no problem. Same with benefits

How then did they rent anywhere first thing a landlord asks me now is for proof I am legally a uk resident.

I have all the about legitimacy's if i didnt have a passport though wouldnt matter a damn cant open a bank account, get a job claim benefits or rent a house. Why do I need a passport or some other form of id but windrush people dont ?

That's a pretty recent occurrence, though. In my first jobs (mid-90s), no-one asked me for any proof I was allowed to work in the UK, only for my NI number.

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

dixiedean said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Pagan2 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

darkage said:

Pagan2 said:

Sandpit said:

How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job

I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.

According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.

That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).

It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"

For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.

One of my adopted daughters is afro caribbean in heritage strangely she has never been under threat of deportation but then she doesnt go out commiting crimes

Windrush was not about deporting criminals. Is your daughter safe from Home Office ineptitude, political opportunism or an officially hostile environment?

Windrush was about deporting undocumented peole. My daughter is documented. The reason those people were undocumented is the civil service threw away their boarding cards which was an edict from jack straw.

It is curious how every single problem during 11 years of Tory rule can be traced back to the Labour government.
It's almost as if the Tories have no agency of their own. And are compelled to dance to a pre-destined tune played by an evil piper from magical pre-history.
Karma is mysterious.

I am not a tory supporter by any means however I do believe in truth and the destruction of those documents was intiaited by mr Straw. If they had still been extant the windrush thing would not have been an issue....which part are you disagreeing with?

The being total bastards in absence of documentation bit. And in the refusal to accept employment and tax paying evidence. That bit.

Someone undocumented is someone undocumented, you think the lowly civil servants processing warrants should have been making assessments? Please enlighten us how you tell. Also please enlighten us why you think people who came in the 50's might not have applied for residence or citizenship yet? . Where does anything become the individuals responsiblibility for left wing fuck nuts like you

You accuse me of being a "left wing Fuck nut".
The Windrush deportations happened under a Conservative government.
True or false? Never mind. That's very last decade.

Yes they happened under a conservative government. Yes they shouldnt have happened. Why they happened however is a left wing governement decided a few years before that the documentation was no longer needed.

Even so it was about 300 windrush deported, out of the original 57000 thats an error rate of 0.5 % which is probably less than the rate for those wrongly convicted.

You failed to answer the question I asked of a left wing fuck nut...why wasnt it these people's duty to get properly registered after all they only had 70 odd years? If you want to marry you need to register it, if you give birth you have to register it, if you die someone else has to register it, if you immigrate you dont need to register you being here? really?

They had no requirement to be "properly registered" !

The state never asked them to. They could live, marry, work and vote in elections as they were.

That the state didn't manage its side of the paperwork properly, that the state didn't keep records of who migrated, is on the state, not the people. It isn't the people's job to work for the state's benefit.

Yes but the point I was making was the state didnt have those records as they were thrown away and as usual low level civil servants were jobsworths and looked down the list of what was acceptable proof and rejected perfectly fine documents such as tax and rent because they werent on the list. I personally having dealt with many low level public sector workers if they were on fire after some of my experiences such as "We are taking you to court for non payment of poll tax" , "But I mailed you photocopies of the receipts twice now", "I didnt receive them"...stands up in court shows the receipts case dismissed.Next year get the same thing for the same fucking year

However sorry I do disagree with you that you can be here 70 odd years and never think once maybe I should legitimise myself by taking out residence or nationality

Again they were legitimate.

They legitimately had residence.
They legitimately had nationality.
They legitimately could vote.
They legitimately were taxed.
They legitimately were BRITISH CITIZENS!

So what was there to legitimise?

How then did they get a job, when I apply for one I have to show proof I am allowed to work in the uk. If they had that would be no problem. Same with benefits

How then did they rent anywhere first thing a landlord asks me now is for proof I am legally a uk resident.

I have all the about legitimacy's if i didnt have a passport though wouldnt matter a damn cant open a bank account, get a job claim benefits or rent a house. Why do I need a passport or some other form of id but windrush people dont ?

That's a pretty recent occurrence, though. In my first jobs (mid-90s), no-one asked me for any proof I was allowed to work in the UK, only for my NI number.

Yes but times change. When they did I went an got photo id with proof. Apparently though while that should be expected of me it shouldn't be expected of others