The Times are saying the 21st of June easing is going to be delayed by a fortnight.
Indeed. I couldn't see any other outcome from the latest data.
Doug - your analysis is correct
Stage 4 will be delayed by at least 2 weeks. Possibly up to beginning August to align with school holidays. And then it will only be 'Stage 3.5' as posted here previously. Masks still everywhere under Stage 3.5.
Honestly, your acceptance of this is an absolute shocker mate. You've become institutionalised by the doom mongering scientists.
I'm just taking a pragmatic view based on my interpretation of the trends.
Of course I might be wrong - it's not unusual!
The trend that vaccine refusers might die? That's not a reason to keep any of these measures the even an extra day.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Don't you get it?
Their "niceness" is a rebellion against your desire for rebelliousness.....
Jennifer Saunders got a whole long-running sitcom out of that idea. (Goes to check the details.) Bloody hell. The French and Saunders sketch that became Ab Fab was in 1990. Thirty-one years ago.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
And when those two weeks are up it will be "just another two weeks" until we get to August and then it's "just until the booster programme is done". Don't give them an inch. The scientists, Gove, Hancock - all of the bastards need to be gone yesterday. Graham Brady should start asking for letters if Boris allows any delays to the schedule. Enough is enough. Fuck vaccine refusers and fuck any idiots who think extending lockdown is warranted to protect them from their own idiotic decisions.
Think of the poor people of some part of east London (other urban wastelands are available) who cba to be vaccinated. They deserve our sympathy not our contempt, apparently.
I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
Who would they vote for instead? Maybe the Lib Dem’s will demand we open up?
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
There is also the dubious headline of "a race against time" (vaccines versus variant) What is this "race"? And how is it judged who is winning? The variant is spreading largely in schoolchildren. Who are not being vaccinated. In two weeks time some of the figures will look worse. Will it be judged we're "losing" the race?
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
And when those two weeks are up it will be "just another two weeks" until we get to August and then it's "just until the booster programme is done". Don't give them an inch. The scientists, Gove, Hancock - all of the bastards need to be gone yesterday. Graham Brady should start asking for letters if Boris allows any delays to the schedule. Enough is enough. Fuck vaccine refusers and fuck any idiots who think extending lockdown is warranted to protect them from their own idiotic decisions.
Think of the poor people of some part of east London (other urban wastelands are available) who cba to be vaccinated. They deserve our sympathy not our contempt, apparently.
Soon they will all have the disease, and they will die or survive (and gain immunity), as is their choice. Darwin will know his own, let the dice fall
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
Indeed, or else there will be more excuses.
But it's already starting. Two extra weeks becomes 2-4 extra weeks. Then it's, well not everyone has had both doses. Then it's let's go school kids. Then it's "24 hours to save the NHS with booster shots" then it's "NHS winter crisis".
These lockdown wankers want everyone locked up for good. They want to conquer death itself. Honestly, I'm actually becoming really depressed by all of this. That "two weeks" will never, ever be just two weeks. Before we know it 2022 will have rolled around and we'll still be talking about the next NHS crisis.
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
Depends on what the data says though.
It doesn't matter what the fucking data says, that much is obvious. It will be passed through a bent model and used to justify whatever they want it to justify.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
Yes, and after that it'll be "we have to double jab every adult" and then "we have to double jab all the kids" and then "it's Autumn, the bad weather will cause it to take off again" and then "what about the flu? Flu and Covid will collapse the hospitals" - chuck in a new variant panic every fortnight and this bullshit will still be dragging on this time in 2023.
Well it was mainly over-50s night at the vaccination centre this evening. All us second dosers getting AZ while the youngsters are getting Pfizer at the other centre across town.
Interestingly, the nurse asked if I had any side effects from my first dose. I decided that answering 'a fatal blood clot' would not be appropriate or funny. I don't know if my response was collated or if it was just to check that I hadn't suffered anything too severe.
All very efficient, out the door around 10 minutes after I arrived.
So far, just a bit of an ache in my arm, but I expect any feverishness to hit in the early hours. Actually, as I'm typing, perhaps the first hint of a headache. I think I'll dose up on paracetamol before bed.
I would if I were you, take the edge off any fever before it gets the chance to bite.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
The editor of respected medical journal The Lancet has refused to reveal if he still supports a controversial letter debunking claims that COVID-19 started in a Chinese laboratory.
I do not understand why he still has a job. Does he own this fucking magazine? He is trashing its brand, daily, with every day he clings on
The Lancet literally published a letter, crucially squashing all discussion of a lab leak hypothesis for a year, a letter which was organised and written by the man who funded the "gain of function" research at the Wuhan lab. and at the end they declared "no conflict of interest" and they made no mention of the OTHER links between the letter signers and the lab, which were multiple
This is a slam dunk. He must go. Even if the lab leak is bollocks, this was an attempt to deceive the world about a global plague killing mullions
It is quite incredible....and obviously not his first shall we say mistep...and this is a scientific journal, where trust and integrity is key.
He must be shagging the owner's daughter or something. He is completely devalued, indeed he is anti-value. A proven crank and a proven liar. Editing one of the most respected medical journals in the world, and destroying it. Not good
He's been editor for twenty six years.
Why was he not forced to resign after Wakefield? 🤔
Plus he strongly backed Roy Meadow's persecution of the late Sally Clark etc too.
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
Fair enough, but hardly squares with "Whitty and Vallance gave a briefing to ministers yesterday on the latest data that was described as 'fairly grim'".
Doesn't sound like a 2 week fixer-upper, at least in that context.
Honestly, it's time to sound the all-clear, or we're never getting out of this.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
There is a real problem with Boomer and Gen X parents of our generation trying to live vicariously through our children. The best way to get under our skins is to be rather conventional.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
Fuck em. Let them sit at home and shit themselves. Their choice.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
But that's going to happen this week anyway? All over 50s will have been offered their second doses by around Saturday this week. We're already at 28m, groups 1-9 is 32m, of which around 30m had the first jab. We're doing around 400k second doses per day. By Saturday all of groups 1-9 will have had it.
Yet again the headline does not match the story. ‘Set to’ is not the same as ‘could be’. Deliberately provocative, attention grabbing headline.
On the other hand the story claims that they got a briefing that was "fairly grim"*. "Fairly grim" is not "temporary very short term pause". "Fairly grim" is "shut the pubs now!!!"
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
Indeed, or else there will be more excuses.
But it's already starting. Two extra weeks becomes 2-4 extra weeks. Then it's, well not everyone has had both doses. Then it's let's go school kids. Then it's "24 hours to save the NHS with booster shots" then it's "NHS winter crisis".
These lockdown wankers want everyone locked up for good. They want to conquer death itself. Honestly, I'm actually becoming really depressed by all of this. That "two weeks" will never, ever be just two weeks. Before we know it 2022 will have rolled around and we'll still be talking about the next NHS crisis.
Indeed.
Ironically, your best hope is prime minister Boris "pile the bodies high" Johnson. He hates lockdown, he knows it fucks the economy
Every other party leader - Cole, Poots, Sturgeon, Starmer, Drake, Poots, Lucas, whoever-leads-the-Lib-Dems - would be charging towards Endless Lockdown
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
Fuck em. Let them sit at home and shit themselves. Their choice.
Exactly don't keep the rest of us locked up. People can stay home and wear masks if they want to. Don't impose that on me.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
There is a real problem with Boomer and Gen X parents of our generation trying to live vicariously through our children. The best way to get under our skins is to be rather conventional.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
No, it's more than that. There is a real lack of va-va-voom
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
But that's going to happen this week anyway? All over 50s will have been offered their second doses by around Saturday this week. We're already at 28m, groups 1-9 is 32m, of which around 30m had the first jab. We're doing around 400k second doses per day. By Saturday all of groups 1-9 will have had it.
Further logic update, the logic is that they'll need a few weeks for the second dose to kick in?
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
But that's going to happen this week anyway? All over 50s will have been offered their second doses by around Saturday this week. We're already at 28m, groups 1-9 is 32m, of which around 30m had the first jab. We're doing around 400k second doses per day. By Saturday all of groups 1-9 will have had it.
Further logic update, the logic is that they'll need a few weeks for the second dose to kick in?
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
Fuck em. Let them sit at home and shit themselves. Their choice.
Exactly don't keep the rest of us locked up. People can stay home and wear masks if they want to. Don't impose that on me.
Exactly. "Informal" vaccine passports. Go out at your own risk. Be aware that not being double vaxxed puts you at slightly higher risk. Look out for case numbers in your local area and act accordingly. etc etc
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
There is a real problem with Boomer and Gen X parents of our generation trying to live vicariously through our children. The best way to get under our skins is to be rather conventional.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
No, it's more than that. There is a real lack of va-va-voom
Nah, apart from his strange musical taste and love of shell suits* he can be as depraved as any of my contemporaries were. He certainly is quite a ladies man.
* yes, really...I think you have to be young enough to not remember them first time round.
What exactly does a delay of a fortnight achieve? It smacks of merely not wanting to make a decision either way, so spark off a rolling 2 week holding pattern.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
Allows all over 50s to be double jabbed is the logic.
But that's going to happen this week anyway? All over 50s will have been offered their second doses by around Saturday this week. We're already at 28m, groups 1-9 is 32m, of which around 30m had the first jab. We're doing around 400k second doses per day. By Saturday all of groups 1-9 will have had it.
Further logic update, the logic is that they'll need a few weeks for the second dose to kick in?
About 10 days.
Also a big lack of info about how dangerous the variant ACTUALLY is to single dosed people. We know they are at higher risk of infection. They appear to be at higher risk therefore of at least mild symptomatic infection. But serious illness? The jury seems to be out. Feedback from NHS frontline suggests now.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
It's hardly surprising when you have a government that simultaneously says we have tremendously successful vaccines but also spends all it's time going "uh-oh" at people, it's a pretty strange message to parse.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
But no one's forcing them out of their houses?
Exactly.
One or two people I know are really quite concerned. There is a chap who gets the train with me every day who puts a pair of disposable gloves on at the station, for a 10 minute journey.
I was already worried about the long term consequences for too many people's mental health. We need to get back to normal pronto.
This is of course all worsened by the 'we must make everything law' brigade. If it had been guidance we'd be in a much stronger position now to resist this tendentious overreach of a nascent bio-security state.
A few years ago someone joked that soon the UK would be an NHS with a country attached. It has come sooner than we thought....
If an extension to lifting lockdown is to even be considered then the question that needs answering is why?
If its because people are getting hospitalised who refused the vaccine, then its not right to keep lockdown in place. They've made their choice, its not right to keep others locked down because of it - plus its pointless because in a few weeks time they'll still be unvaccinated, so what do we do then?
If its because vaccines aren't 100% effective then its not right to keep lockdown in place. They won't be 100% effective in a few weeks time either. Nothing in life is 100%.
If its because people are getting hospitalised who haven't been offered the vaccine, then that's different. But a date should be fixed by which they will be getting the vaccine, so there should be an absolute locked in stone date for lifting lockdown then.
Given my generation was noted for heavy drinking, liberal class A use, morning wake and bakes, promiscuity and general slacking it is tough to discern what our teenage children might be rebelling against... And on restrictions remaining. Tory after Tory seems to be lining up to be outraged. But still they get 43%+ in the polls. Well you need to start saying you won't vote for them. And actually do it. It's the only language they understand. But most of you won't, so they won't.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
We need a revolution. Toby Young can be caudilllo
Or Laurence Fox
Or fucking anyone, frankly
I am with you. We cannot abolish death and we have been taken over by the NO UNITS A WEEK anti-alcohol wankerati, who assess a life solely by its tediously unamusing longevity. Fuck them
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
It's hardly surprising when you have a government that simultaneously says we have tremendously successful vaccines but also spends all it's time going "uh-oh" at people, it's a pretty strange message to parse.
"Our vaccine rollout is brilliant, except for the fact that the vaccines are totally fucking useless."
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
But no one's forcing them out of their houses?
Also, assuming there is no roll back, how does further reopening make any difference to that attitude? Case numbers are rising. You are allowed inside in pubs and restaurants. You don't have to go in. What difference does further reopening make to these people?
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
It's hardly surprising when you have a government that simultaneously says we have tremendously successful vaccines but also spends all it's time going "uh-oh" at people, it's a pretty strange message to parse.
"Our vaccine rollout is brilliant, except for the fact that the vaccines are totally fucking useless."
That's basically the story so far of 2021.
Yet the one the journalists are too thick to ask. Travel lists and holidays, yes. "Vaccines were the way out, didn't you say?", no.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
There is a real problem with Boomer and Gen X parents of our generation trying to live vicariously through our children. The best way to get under our skins is to be rather conventional.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
No, it's more than that. There is a real lack of va-va-voom
Nah, apart from his strange musical taste and love of shell suits* he can be as depraved as any of my contemporaries were. He certainly is quite a ladies man.
* yes, really...I think you have to be young enough to not remember them first time round.
See the stats. They drink less, they fuck less, they have fewer friends, they do fewer drugs, their politics is timid, their music is properly awful (in a genuinely bad way, not just O Tempora O Mores), They are a bit hopeless
It is not their fault, of course, it is culture and economics and social media/internet colliding in an unhappy manner. The Japanese malaise has spread to the West, bigtime
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
But no one's forcing them out of their houses?
Also, assuming there is no roll back, how does further reopening make any difference to that attitude? Case numbers are rising. You are allowed inside in pubs and restaurants. You don't have to go in. What difference does further reopening make to these people?
They get to masturbate over everyone else's misery. It's the only thing I can think of. These bastards aren't just miserable c***s themselves but they want to drag the rest of us down with them. I'm going to email the few Tory MP s that I know tomorrow. I suggest everyone else should do the same.
We're living through the tyranny of experts who think they know what's best for us.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
It will, however, be interesting to see how they come up with graphs implying that continuation of existing rules is OK for a few weeks, but further reopening will cause death and disease to flourish. If they're seriously concerned about the situation at present, then they should be urging us all back into lockdown...
The amount of damage that could be done in a couple of weeks is not significant. Especially when considering the likes of Bolton (which if you remember was full of people directly coming from India, spreading it through their family, and at levels of vaccination far below what the norm is now). And how bad did it get? Not very.
Given my generation was noted for heavy drinking, liberal class A use, morning wake and bakes, promiscuity and general slacking it is tough to discern what our teenage children might be rebelling against...
We see on it here with the young fogey Tory Boys, the best way to annoy ageing hippie/slacker parents.
At least both my boys are solidly on the correct side of politics.
Given my generation was noted for heavy drinking, liberal class A use, morning wake and bakes, promiscuity and general slacking it is tough to discern what our teenage children might be rebelling against...
We see on it here with the young fogey Tory Boys, the best way to annoy ageing hippie/slacker parents.
At least both my boys are solidly on the correct side of politics.
For avoidance of doubt, my parents are also Tories....
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
There is a real problem with Boomer and Gen X parents of our generation trying to live vicariously through our children. The best way to get under our skins is to be rather conventional.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
No, it's more than that. There is a real lack of va-va-voom
Nah, apart from his strange musical taste and love of shell suits* he can be as depraved as any of my contemporaries were. He certainly is quite a ladies man.
* yes, really...I think you have to be young enough to not remember them first time round.
See the stats. They drink less, they fuck less, they have fewer friends, they do fewer drugs, their politics is timid, their music is properly awful (in a genuinely bad way, not just O Tempora O Mores), They are a bit hopeless
It is not their fault, of course, it is culture and economics and social media/internet colliding in an unhappy manner. The Japanese malaise has spread to the West, bigtime
Last year we went into lockdown to protect the vulnerable and to stop the NHS being overwhelmed which was fine.
Now we’re asked to remain in lockdown to protect antivaxxers and the lazy.
Get fornicated PM.
They vote. People who wear facemasks outdoors, pulled down beneath their nostrils (because it’s so hard to breathe) vote. The people putting shopping the the garage for a week because, well you never know, vote. The people wearing plastic gloves in shops yet fondling every product vote.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
Given my generation was noted for heavy drinking, liberal class A use, morning wake and bakes, promiscuity and general slacking it is tough to discern what our teenage children might be rebelling against...
We see on it here with the young fogey Tory Boys, the best way to annoy ageing hippie/slacker parents.
At least both my boys are solidly on the correct side of politics.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
It's hardly surprising when you have a government that simultaneously says we have tremendously successful vaccines but also spends all it's time going "uh-oh" at people, it's a pretty strange message to parse.
"Our vaccine rollout is brilliant, except for the fact that the vaccines are totally fucking useless."
That's basically the story so far of 2021.
Yet the one the journalists are too thick to ask. Travel lists and holidays, yes. "Vaccines were the way out, didn't you say?", no.
It should be question 1. Instead we'll get idiot questions about people stuck in Portugal. Honestly, if I was at the briefing I'd want to take a bucket of rotten eggs to pelt at the scientists and Boris.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
We need a revolution. Toby Young can be caudilllo
Or Laurence Fox
Or fucking anyone, frankly
I am with you. We cannot abolish death and we have been taken over by the NO UNITS A WEEK anti-alcohol wankerati, who assess a life solely by its tediously unamusing longevity. Fuck them
Also the "no smoking outside in Oxfordshire" brigade.
Last year we went into lockdown to protect the vulnerable and to stop the NHS being overwhelmed which was fine.
Now we’re asked to remain in lockdown to protect antivaxxers and the lazy.
Get fornicated PM.
They vote. People who wear facemasks outdoors, pulled down beneath their nostrils (because it’s so hard to breathe) vote. The people putting shopping the the garage for a week because, well you never know, vote. The people wearing plastic gloves in shops yet fondling every product vote.
Sorry.
The people wearing plastic gloves can keep wearing plastic gloves, and masks, and doing whatever else they please from here to eternity.
They just don't get to tell the rest of us what to do.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
To put it tactfully, a revolution.
End of the year?
We should be out of this for summer!
We are currently less free than we were last summer. Not on.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
To put it tactfully, a revolution.
End of the year?
We should be out of this for summer!
This two weeks will see us through to 2022. Don't even bother hoping for a normal summer now. It's done. We need for Steve Baker to to lead a coup against Boris and remove the scientists from the levers of power. Boris is too weak to do it himself. He can't bring himself to say the words - "people are going to die of this".
Last year we went into lockdown to protect the vulnerable and to stop the NHS being overwhelmed which was fine.
Now we’re asked to remain in lockdown to protect antivaxxers and the lazy.
Get fornicated PM.
They vote. People who wear facemasks outdoors, pulled down beneath their nostrils (because it’s so hard to breathe) vote. The people putting shopping the the garage for a week because, well you never know, vote. The people wearing plastic gloves in shops yet fondling every product vote.
Sorry.
The problem with Populists is that they are finding lockdown measures quite popular with their core grey vote. Pretty consistently so across all polls.
"On her first-ever international diplomatic trip as vice-president, Kamala Harris is taking on one of the nation's biggest issues: immigration.
In a bilateral news conference with Mr Giammattei, she warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "If you come to our border you will be turned back.""
I suppose there's an outside chance that this is a planted story to distract from the foreign aid stuff...
Or a chance for Boris to step in and over rule to look a hero.
If it’s delayed a couple of weeks it will be forgotten by the end of July. I doubt Labour will oppose, so where are the Tory votes going to go?
And if it is delayed by another couple of weeks, because the raw numbers of cases are higher in two weeks than they are now...?
What's weird about the Times story is that there is still the mandatory quote from no10 saying that "there is nothing in the data indicating we can't go ahead on June 21st". How do they square that with a "fairly grim" briefing from the gruesome twosome to ministers?
It can't be both. At best it could be a briefing where some have latched on to the mandatory "worst case" scenario and breathlessly related it to the Times. One would hope by now that others have picked up that the "worst case" scenario is not actually a realistic scenario when it defies the evidence.
You can almost predict what a backbench Tory MP's views on foreign aid are by how posh they are. Has anyone else noticed that? (David Davis is an exception).
Last year we went into lockdown to protect the vulnerable and to stop the NHS being overwhelmed which was fine.
Now we’re asked to remain in lockdown to protect antivaxxers and the lazy.
Get fornicated PM.
They vote. People who wear facemasks outdoors, pulled down beneath their nostrils (because it’s so hard to breathe) vote. The people putting shopping the the garage for a week because, well you never know, vote. The people wearing plastic gloves in shops yet fondling every product vote.
Sorry.
The problem with Populists is that they are finding lockdown measures quite popular with their core grey vote. Pretty consistently so across all polls.
The grey vote, or the sitting at home showing two fingers to their employer vote?
How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?
Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.
I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.
Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?
There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.
You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of foreign criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
According to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, in 2019 68% of all those deported for criminal offenses were EU citizens. Trying to make out this is a racist policy is simply wrong and does you no credit at all.
That doesn't mean much without knowing the relative proportions of subpopulations and sub-sub-populations (age and gender are strong correlates/determinants of criminal activity) and, indeed, race (it's possible to be a non-white EU citizen, after all).
It means a great deal in the context of darkage's ridiculous claim "why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not?"
For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.
Somebody said the South West has 13(!) people in hospital.
Not good enough. 13 could grow exponentially into 476 billion in less than ten months according to the latest models.
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
It doesn't look like it. I'd take PM Steve Baker or Charles Walker at this stage. Boris is too weak to see off the scientists and their dodgy models.
If we're not out of this by the end of the year then I'd be all in favour of... well, a great many things that are unmentionable for legal reasons.
To put it tactfully, a revolution.
End of the year?
We should be out of this for summer!
This two weeks will see us through to 2022. Don't even bother hoping for a normal summer now. It's done. We need for Steve Baker to to lead a coup against Boris and remove the scientists from the levers of power. Boris is too weak to do it himself. He can't bring himself to say the words - "people are going to die of this".
I'm not willing to lose hope yet.
My order of preference.
1: This is a kite flown and won't happen. 2: If this does happen, its solely linked to vaccination progress. A level of vaccination (eg over 50x2 or over 30+3 weeks) hasn't happened yet and that's been determined needed and will be done within a fortnight, so literally just 2 weeks. 3: Letters to Graham Brady.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
From what i've read though, some or all of these tweets fall more into the category of bad taste jokes than outright racism though. Which i think makes a difference.
Also there is another point here. It appears to be the prevailing view in most spheres that often racist/homophobic/sexist comments (i'm not going to say views/opinions necessarily) are a by-product of poor education. Hence "diversity" courses etc that people are sent on to learn about why what they said is wrong/offensive.
But if you accept that education is an issue, then it makes even less of a case for punishing somebody for things they might have said or done as a teenager, and possibly as a teenager in an environment where there was a deficit of said "education".
Yep sorry I was not arguing that the ECB were right in the way they handled Robinson at all. I think on the face of it it is pretty ridiculous but to be honest I can't say for sure as I have not seen what the tweets were.
I was specifically defending Northern_al from being mocked for saying he would be horrified if his kids tweeted or thought racist and homophobic stuff.
The Times are saying the 21st of June easing is going to be delayed by a fortnight.
Indeed. I couldn't see any other outcome from the latest data.
Doug - your analysis is correct
Stage 4 will be delayed by at least 2 weeks. Possibly up to beginning August to align with school holidays. And then it will only be 'Stage 3.5' as posted here previously. Masks still everywhere under Stage 3.5.
How do you know it’s correct? FFS. Do you have a hotline to Boris?
How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?
Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.
I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.
Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?
There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.
You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
I don't think the Windrush deportations were actually racist. Not in the conventional "black people are nasty, let's get rid of them" sort of way anyway. I think they stemed instead from a process which looked roughly like this:
A large influx of EU immigration caused an upturn in popular feeling about there being too much immigration. This wasn't racist - it was practical - the large influx of workers was driving down pay, especially amoungst the lower paid and increasing pressure on housing, schools etc.
The government was therefore under pressure to "do something" to reduce immigration. Because we were in the EU, there was nothing that could be done about EU immigration, so the only something that could be done was a clamp down on non-EU immigration. This wasn't racist either - it was just a result of a stupid EU policy (and that same policy is one of the main reasons why we left the EU).
The home office were aware that people were mostly interested in the net migration numbers, so one way to game the target was to go after non-EU visa overstayers, and similar who hadn't got paperwork entitling then to stay in the UK - even if they had been in the UK a long time. This wasn't racist either - it was just a way of gaming a target.
Add in some officials zealous to hit their targets and you get Windrush... All driven by political expediency and the desire to generate "favourable numbers", but not by any actual conscious attempt at racism.
The Times are saying the 21st of June easing is going to be delayed by a fortnight.
Indeed. I couldn't see any other outcome from the latest data.
Doug - your analysis is correct
Stage 4 will be delayed by at least 2 weeks. Possibly up to beginning August to align with school holidays. And then it will only be 'Stage 3.5' as posted here previously. Masks still everywhere under Stage 3.5.
How do you know it’s correct? FFS. Do you have a hotline to Boris?
I think if government delay, Tories poll numbers will go through the floor...it will seriously piss people off and as reported as government lost control of covid again and failed.
A bride friend of mine will have to cancel her wedding with a few days’ notice. The wedding sector was promised an update on 24 May. Nothing has been forthcoming from a vaccinating government.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
Woke is rebellion.
Trans-rights is rebellion.
The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.
Apple announced now have updated wallet for such things....
What’s wrong with the official vaccination record I can now access online whenever I want?
It was a bit of a snide comment from me. They have announced that wallet will allow you to scan in official IDs and records, which for example then for TSA in the US you tap your phone and it only shares a limited subset of the info.
Its obvious that such a system "could" include vaccination status.
I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
Where is this “general fear”? I was on holiday over Whit half term on the South Coast and fearfulness there was none. Everyone was living it up and pushing the rules to the maximum. It was busy and fun.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
Woke is rebellion.
Trans-rights is rebellion.
The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.
Wrong kind. Yew don't want to rebel like that. Yew wanna rebel like this.
I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
Where is this “general fear”? I was on holiday over Whit half term on the South Coast and fearfulness there was none. Everyone was living it up and pushing the rules to the maximum. It was busy and fun.
I agree. The general fear is gone. Some people suffering from anxiety are scared still.
The frit in Govt. can't sense this. But the tide has turned towards freedom and normality. The numbers are tiny. The risks for the vulnerable are low. Unless they've been stupid and not had their jabs (or in a very few sad cases if they're medically not able to take them).
Edit to add: the only people I see properly using T&T app now are over 50. I've deliberately watched people 'checking in' recently and its clear most are just going through the motions....
I'm not sure if polling numbers would crater if 21 June is pushed back, or seem as a damp squib. The public have proven remarkably on board with long and hard measures, as indeed most of us have been to one degree or another.
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
Where is this “general fear”? I was on holiday over Whit half term on the South Coast and fearfulness there was none. Everyone was living it up and pushing the rules to the maximum. It was busy and fun.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
Who are these people? I haven’t met a single one, genuinely. I don’t recognise this characterisation at all.
I'm not in favour of punishing Ollie Robinson for historic stuff. Nor am I in favour of trawling through players' posts from when they were teenagers to find something offensive.
But at the same time, there seems to be a view from people that saying or writing homophobic, racist or sexist things is a 'normal' part of being a teenager. It certainly wasn't in the circles I've moved in, and I'd be horrified if my children tweeted, or thought, such stuff when they were teenagers.
Your immaculate purity of thought and word is truly commendable. Well done you.
Um I would suggest that Northern_Al's position is the one of most, if not all, reasonable parents. Of course teenagers will do daft stuff but you like to think there are somethings that are simply beyond the pale. Homophobia and racism should be viewed in that light. Any kid who has reached middle teens should know how out of order it is.
As a parent, I am depressed by the extreme niceness of my teenage daughters. They are kind and lovely and Woke, but where is the teenage rebellion?
Wokeness is the religion of our day, the ideology of their liberal parents, why aren't they kicking against it?
This sounds like sarcasm, it is not. We need young people to innovate, to think outside the envelope, to reject conformity, instead we have bred a generation of sober sheep. And the boys are even WORSE
Enforced rebellion is as bad as enforced conformity. Why shouldn't your kids adopt values that they respect, and quite likely rebel against something else? There's a reason why Corbyn attracted such crowds of young people, mistaken though you might think them - he offered a vision of a society very different from our own, and kids were attracted to that. Isn't that better than rebelling against ideas of tolerance and, yes, niceness?
There is no enforced rebellion, I see no rebellion at all. And that is my point
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
Woke is rebellion.
Trans-rights is rebellion.
The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.
Most of the elites in western countries are in favour of those things. Who are they rebelling against? The white working-class in small towns?
Though if its just for a fortnight, strictly to get vaccines to a set level in that time, then it should be possible to lock in that date. Dates not data from that point on, because the data of vaccinations will be locked, so must the date.
Indeed, or else there will be more excuses.
But it's already starting. Two extra weeks becomes 2-4 extra weeks. Then it's, well not everyone has had both doses. Then it's let's go school kids. Then it's "24 hours to save the NHS with booster shots" then it's "NHS winter crisis".
These lockdown wankers want everyone locked up for good. They want to conquer death itself. Honestly, I'm actually becoming really depressed by all of this. That "two weeks" will never, ever be just two weeks. Before we know it 2022 will have rolled around and we'll still be talking about the next NHS crisis.
Indeed.
Ironically, your best hope is prime minister Boris "pile the bodies high" Johnson. He hates lockdown, he knows it fucks the economy
Every other party leader - Cole, Poots, Sturgeon, Starmer, Drake, Poots, Lucas, whoever-leads-the-Lib-Dems - would be charging towards Endless Lockdown
Although not Sadiq Khan, curiously. He’s backing 21 June as unlock day.
Comments
At most there is a retreat to a degraded gangsta culture, the hideous music and the laughable styles. It is minor, and pathetic. Not least because it is so predictable
The rest just agree eagerly with their liberal Woke parents. Tragic
I understand I am just one in a long line of parents bewailing the youth of today. but I believe it is unusual to bewail the fact that the youth of today are just like their parents, and have no radical culture of their own. Perhaps it is an economic thing
(Goes to check the details.)
Bloody hell. The French and Saunders sketch that became Ab Fab was in 1990. Thirty-one years ago.
What I'm finding hard to understand is the "we need more data on the link between vaccines and hospitalisations". Feels like we should have more than enough data on that front by this point, surely?
But it has been a very cautious reopening given the vaccines and the length of the lockdown. And whatever the caveated words, and plenty being wary about the date, it just feels like we've been heading for a release day and a big party, and so perhaps this is the time when people will actually say 'no'.
But the general fear, which seems way higher than it should right now, will work against that.
These lockdown wankers want everyone locked up for good. They want to conquer death itself. Honestly, I'm actually becoming really depressed by all of this. That "two weeks" will never, ever be just two weeks. Before we know it 2022 will have rolled around and we'll still be talking about the next NHS crisis.
My social network - which you will not be surprised is largely based on meeting people in pubs in London - has largely been reopened. But there are a number of individuals within it, including some who have been double jabbed, who have some reluctance to go to the pub inside, and I think the increase in cases will accentuate this.
Why was he not forced to resign after Wakefield? 🤔
Plus he strongly backed Roy Meadow's persecution of the late Sally Clark etc too.
Excluding any data from vaccine refuseniks.
Doesn't sound like a 2 week fixer-upper, at least in that context.
Honestly, it's time to sound the all-clear, or we're never getting out of this.
Fox Jr2 sings crooner songs for a Big Band FFS! For a guy who used to listen to Punk and Metal, that is hard to take.
Ironically, your best hope is prime minister Boris "pile the bodies high" Johnson. He hates lockdown, he knows it fucks the economy
Every other party leader - Cole, Poots, Sturgeon, Starmer, Drake, Poots, Lucas, whoever-leads-the-Lib-Dems - would be charging towards Endless Lockdown
This is going to end up like fucking New Zealand - rolling lockdowns in an endless, Quixotic effort to achieve Zero Covid and keep it that way forever. And because the vaccines aren't 100% effective, as the wretched scientists endlessly keep bleating over and over and over again, it will go on forever. This will never be over, will it?
* yes, really...I think you have to be young enough to not remember them first time round.
One or two people I know are really quite concerned. There is a chap who gets the train with me every day who puts a pair of disposable gloves on at the station, for a 10 minute journey.
I was already worried about the long term consequences for too many people's mental health. We need to get back to normal pronto.
This is of course all worsened by the 'we must make everything law' brigade. If it had been guidance we'd be in a much stronger position now to resist this tendentious overreach of a nascent bio-security state.
A few years ago someone joked that soon the UK would be an NHS with a country attached. It has come sooner than we thought....
If its because people are getting hospitalised who refused the vaccine, then its not right to keep lockdown in place. They've made their choice, its not right to keep others locked down because of it - plus its pointless because in a few weeks time they'll still be unvaccinated, so what do we do then?
If its because vaccines aren't 100% effective then its not right to keep lockdown in place. They won't be 100% effective in a few weeks time either. Nothing in life is 100%.
If its because people are getting hospitalised who haven't been offered the vaccine, then that's different. But a date should be fixed by which they will be getting the vaccine, so there should be an absolute locked in stone date for lifting lockdown then.
And on restrictions remaining. Tory after Tory seems to be lining up to be outraged. But still they get 43%+ in the polls. Well you need to start saying you won't vote for them. And actually do it.
It's the only language they understand.
But most of you won't, so they won't.
Or Laurence Fox
Or fucking anyone, frankly
I am with you. We cannot abolish death and we have been taken over by the NO UNITS A WEEK anti-alcohol wankerati, who assess a life solely by its tediously unamusing longevity. Fuck them
That's basically the story so far of 2021.
Now we’re asked to remain in lockdown to protect antivaxxers and the lazy.
Get fornicated PM.
It is not their fault, of course, it is culture and economics and social media/internet colliding in an unhappy manner. The Japanese malaise has spread to the West, bigtime
To put it tactfully, a revolution.
We're living through the tyranny of experts who think they know what's best for us.
The amount of damage that could be done in a couple of weeks is not significant. Especially when considering the likes of Bolton (which if you remember was full of people directly coming from India, spreading it through their family, and at levels of vaccination far below what the norm is now). And how bad did it get? Not very.
At least both my boys are solidly on the correct side of politics.
Sorry.
We should be out of this for summer!
They just don't get to tell the rest of us what to do.
If it’s delayed a couple of weeks it will be forgotten by the end of July. I doubt Labour will oppose, so where are the Tory votes going to go?
Its another Brexit. Foreign aid is tremendously unpopular with voters. It is almost uniformly hated by Tory voters.
Govt. staring down the Wets is a good news story for Boris.
Govt. being frit and not caring about our liberties is terrrrrrrible.
In a bilateral news conference with Mr Giammattei, she warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "If you come to our border you will be turned back.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57387350
What's weird about the Times story is that there is still the mandatory quote from no10 saying that "there is nothing in the data indicating we can't go ahead on June 21st". How do they square that with a "fairly grim" briefing from the gruesome twosome to ministers?
It can't be both. At best it could be a briefing where some have latched on to the mandatory "worst case" scenario and breathlessly related it to the Times. One would hope by now that others have picked up that the "worst case" scenario is not actually a realistic scenario when it defies the evidence.
Lots of people support freebies for themselves - in this case the freebies are furlough and working from home.
For the record, apart from those 68% who are EU citizens, a further 21% are of SE Asian origin. Afro-Caribbeans made up a tiny percentage. And of course his whole argument is dumb anyway. Practically every country in the world has a policy of deporting foreign criminals. Even that paragon of virtue Norway deports almost 1000 foreign criminals a year. Claiming it is an intrinsically racist policy is a genuinely stupid idea.
My order of preference.
1: This is a kite flown and won't happen.
2: If this does happen, its solely linked to vaccination progress. A level of vaccination (eg over 50x2 or over 30+3 weeks) hasn't happened yet and that's been determined needed and will be done within a fortnight, so literally just 2 weeks.
3: Letters to Graham Brady.
I was specifically defending Northern_al from being mocked for saying he would be horrified if his kids tweeted or thought racist and homophobic stuff.
A large influx of EU immigration caused an upturn in popular feeling about there being too much immigration. This wasn't racist - it was practical - the large influx of workers was driving down pay, especially amoungst the lower paid and increasing pressure on housing, schools etc.
The government was therefore under pressure to "do something" to reduce immigration. Because we were in the EU, there was nothing that could be done about EU immigration, so the only something that could be done was a clamp down on non-EU immigration. This wasn't racist either - it was just a result of a stupid EU policy (and that same policy is one of the main reasons why we left the EU).
The home office were aware that people were mostly interested in the net migration numbers, so one way to game the target was to go after non-EU visa overstayers, and similar who hadn't got paperwork entitling then to stay in the UK - even if they had been in the UK a long time. This wasn't racist either - it was just a way of gaming a target.
Add in some officials zealous to hit their targets and you get Windrush... All driven by political expediency and the desire to generate "favourable numbers", but not by any actual conscious attempt at racism.
Trans-rights is rebellion.
The fact that you find it incomprehensible is clear evidence that it is - in fact - rebellion.
Its obvious that such a system "could" include vaccination status.
Yew don't want to rebel like that. Yew wanna rebel like this.
The frit in Govt. can't sense this. But the tide has turned towards freedom and normality. The numbers are tiny. The risks for the vulnerable are low. Unless they've been stupid and not had their jabs (or in a very few sad cases if they're medically not able to take them).
Edit to add: the only people I see properly using T&T app now are over 50. I've deliberately watched people 'checking in' recently and its clear most are just going through the motions....