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The Ipsos-MORI Economic Optimism index jumps to its highest level for six years – politicalbetting.c

SystemSystem Posts: 11,019
edited June 2021 in General
imageThe Ipsos-MORI Economic Optimism index jumps to its highest level for six years – politicalbetting.com

The net figure here is calculated by deducting the “get worse” total from the “will improve” and the chart shows how this has noved since 1988. Thus this month just over half (53%) think the economy will get better over the next 12 months (+2 from April), 31% worse (-5), giving a net Economic Optimism Index score of +22.  

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    First
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roaring Twenties here we come!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited June 2021
    Highest level of optimism since 2015, if any amateur psephologists want to understand how the PM a won an unexpected majority in that year.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,958
    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    How long till Portugal is back on the green list? They’re probably going to suffer from the Govt not wanting to look like idiots...
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    And the weather in Camden Town. Don’t forget that all important variable.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414
    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    Does people who are worried about when furlough ends?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Sandpit said:

    Highest level of optimism since 2015, if any amateur psephologists want to understand how the PM a won an unexpected majority in that year.

    Nothing like an oil price crash to improve people’s outlook on life...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414
    Ah the heady days of when George Osborne CH was Chancellor.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    Perhaps it's the lack of any meaningful trade deals set up since we gave away the best deal we ever had.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414
    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    edited June 2021
    (FPT)
    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:



    How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

    Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
    I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

    I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

    Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

    There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

    You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    I do hope not. I don't want to have to learn the Charleston or the Mashed Potato or to deal with "flappers". In any case, the "roaring twenties" didn't end well for many people.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    The Northampton shoe industry will have to expand to cope.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    How long till Portugal is back on the green list? They’re probably going to suffer from the Govt not wanting to look like idiots...

    The lists are reviewed every 3 weeks.

    3 weeks time will take us past 21 June at which point we should have fully reopened domestically so once that's happened the more things can go green the better after that point.

    Though I'd expect a big tranche of greens potentially in six weeks time instead. Gets us a few weeks past 21 June and gives the EU nations time to catch up on vaccinations.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
    More ridiculousness. One of the biggest casualties of this pandemic IMO is the idea that public authorities are capable of reasoned risk assessments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/parkrun-return-in-england-set-to-be-delayed-once-again
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    alex_ said:

    How long till Portugal is back on the green list? They’re probably going to suffer from the Govt not wanting to look like idiots...

    That ship has sailed long ago, if it ever docked.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,958

    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    Does people who are worried about when furlough ends?
    An inability then to distinguish "My personal circumstances" from "the economy".
    That 31% might reckon they will be worse off personally? That is believable.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348
    edited June 2021
    ..and yet this new pollster, reminiscent of carpets has the Tories doing worse....
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    Does people who are worried about when furlough ends?
    An inability then to distinguish "My personal circumstances" from "the economy".
    That 31% might reckon they will be worse off personally? That is believable.
    It's hard to imagine how 31% of personal incomes falling not having an effect on the economy as a whole. As soon as people's savings are spent, the economy will come down with a bump.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    And the weather in Camden Town. Don’t forget that all important variable.
    I wonder if there are still any Albanian taxi drivers knocking about or if they have all gone home?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348
    edited June 2021

    Ah the heady days of when George Osborne CH was Chancellor.

    GO was great fun and v good at goading Ed and Co. So.much time has passed, I cannot even remember who was shadow Chancellor.. .aaah Google is your friend , it was the loony McDonnell.. and the little book of MAO.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    The General Strike lasted for nine days. The coal lock out which sparked it lasted for several months, until the end of November.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    And the weather in Camden Town. Don’t forget that all important variable.
    That's a very important factor in my spending plans this summer!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    darkage said:

    (FPT)

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:



    How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

    Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
    I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

    I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

    Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

    There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

    You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
    There's very little racism in the UK compared to almost anywhere else. It's interesting how it was just when most of the real racists died out, about 10 years ago, that the whole Woke thing started.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    The General Strike lasted for nine days. The coal lock out which sparked it lasted for several months, until the end of November.
    But presumably the railways managed to get enough coal during that time?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
    Jews.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    It sorts of feels like the next 12-18 months will be ok, but not the next 3-5 years.

    It might explain why Boris wants a slightly early election.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    In the UK the Twenties didn't roar like they did across the pond, and while the USA was in the Great Depression of the Thirties, from 1932 the British economy did boom.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    alex_ said:

    More ridiculousness. One of the biggest casualties of this pandemic IMO is the idea that public authorities are capable of reasoned risk assessments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/parkrun-return-in-england-set-to-be-delayed-once-again

    Beyond ridiculous. Hot on the heels of Pride being cancelled - in August (although that was due to government failing to underwrite it).
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
    Jews.
    All of them?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and say all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    Thank goodness. It's about time I, a middle class white guy, got an advantage in life.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    stodge said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    I do hope not. I don't want to have to learn the Charleston or the Mashed Potato or to deal with "flappers". In any case, the "roaring twenties" didn't end well for many people.
    You are doing nothing to dissuade me of my image of you as a misanthropic party-pooper!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    The General Strike lasted for nine days. The coal lock out which sparked it lasted for several months, until the end of November.
    But presumably the railways managed to get enough coal during that time?
    The truth was that by 1926 there was plenty of coal sloshing around. The whole reason for the lockout was a cut in wages and hours due to overproduction and a glut causing price rises. I think I am right in saying that by 1926 the largest buyer of Welsh coal was the GWR itself, as all the export markets had died off.

    And of course, with coal, the major freight traffic on Britain’s railways, not moving, and with large stockpiles due to previous overproduction (sound familiar?) it wouldn’t have been that hard to keep the trains moving.

    Longer term, by depressing the coal market further it was a catastrophe for the railways, causing a major drop in both traffic and revenue, and effectively kneecapped three of the Big Four while they were still in their infancy. Remember, it was heavy freight that made railways their money before WW1 - not passengers.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    (FPT)

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:



    How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

    Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
    I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

    I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

    Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

    There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

    You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
    There's very little racism in the UK compared to almost anywhere else. It's interesting how it was just when most of the real racists died out, about 10 years ago, that the whole Woke thing started.
    But if that is true what was windrush? Do you really think it was all bureaucratic error?
    How can it be right to have double punishment for one category of dual national criminal (ie prison term + banishment rather than just a prison term)?

    (I do agree that this is possibly the least racist country in the world, based on my own experience of other countries)
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and say all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.
    OTOH, it could become a life-saver for smaller towns and rural areas that have seen a relentless drain of well-paying jobs to the cities over decades.

    As my company has embraced fully remote as an option, we have seriously considered moving to eastern Connecticut or Rhode Island to be closer to my wife's family. Sadly, it seems so have half the rest of the NYC tri-state, and while our house here in the 'burbs has rocketed in value over the last year, the areas we're considering have seen their property prices go up even faster.

    Plus while we may not go into NYC super-often, it's so good to have it close enough by that we can do so on a whim.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    What will probably happen is that this will start to show up in the statistics in 12-24 months time, and Labour will misread things (again) and attack the Government viscerally for it.

    It won't work, because people will put it down to the pandemic and changing working patterns and behaviours.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,562
    Politico.com - Biden’s vaccine push fails to gain traction with African Americans
    Less than a quarter of Black Americans had received their first Covid-19 shot as of June 3. That's less than other racial and ethnic groups tracked by the CDC.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/07/vaccine-equity-black-americans-biden-491973

    The Biden administration knew the key to a successful Covid vaccination campaign would be reaching the most vulnerable populations. But more than five months in, even a blueprint that’s worked with other ethnic and racial groups isn’t doing enough to win over Black Americans.

    Less than a quarter of Black Americans had received their first Covid-19 shot as of June 7 based on available federal data, amid a weeks-long stagnation that has defied the government’s ramped-up effort to accelerate vaccinations and reach the nation’s most vulnerable communities.

    The slowdown has put Black Americans behind the pace set over the past month by other racial and ethnic groups tracked by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. . . .

    The White House has intensified the equity push in the past month in particular, as it races to hit President Joe Biden’s July 4 deadline for getting 70 percent of U.S. adults to take at least one dose of a Covid vaccine.

    That initiative has shown signs of success. Over the last two weeks, Hispanic Americans accounted for more than a quarter of total vaccinations, CDC data show, a sharp acceleration from just a month ago, when they ranked as the least-vaccinated demographic group. Asian Americans over that period have also accounted for a greater share of shots, compared with their proportion of the overall population.

    The administration only has race and ethnicity information for roughly 62 percent of the nation’s total vaccinations, a data gap that’s further complicated the equity effort.

    But by available measures, the government’s outreach has yet to gain similar traction among Black communities . . . .

    Health experts cite myriad factors: Ingrained skepticism of a federal government that’s historically failed minorities when it comes to public health, difficulties getting the transportation or time off to seek out a vaccine or a lack of community outreach, among others.

    At the same time, Black people in several areas have accounted for an increasing proportion of Covid-19 cases and deaths — including in Washington, D.C., where government data indicate they’ve made up nearly 8 in 10 new cases and close to 90 percent of deaths since May 1.

    “We all realize that this is the critical moment in the struggle,” said Reed Tuckson, founder of the Black Coalition Against Covid-19, which is coordinating with the administration on its vaccination campaign. “It’s going to take a lot of effort from a lot of different places.”
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
    Jews.
    All of them?
    Eh?

    I'm saying that's what Jezza would choose. Without it even being an option, that's what he'd choose.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    Does people who are worried about when furlough ends?
    An inability then to distinguish "My personal circumstances" from "the economy".
    That 31% might reckon they will be worse off personally? That is believable.
    Anecdata is sometimes useful.

    Indeed pent up spending is happening now, but will it be a flash in the pan? While we wait for Furlough to end, it is hard tell.

    As a general rule, I invest on the basis that things are rarely as bad as they seem or ever as good as they seem.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    The Northampton shoe industry will have to expand to cope.
    I don't need to buy any more footwear for the rest of the year.

    I'm all stocked up.

    It is Turnbull & Asser and the bespoke tailors of Savile Row that will see the majority of my clothing & footwear spending.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    Just dropping in, but of course there's optimism. We're coming out of an artificially induced, economically speaking, depression, and the sun is shining. We're going to get back to a bit below where we were before Brexit and people are going to say hurrah.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
    Jews.
    All of them?
    Eh?

    I'm saying that's what Jezza would choose. Without it even being an option, that's what he'd choose.
    It was in jest.. maybe poor taste. Jezza would blame them...all of them...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    stodge said:

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received at least one dose of vaccine have gone from 66.6% to 76.8%
    That means there's 30% fewer unvaccinated adults now than there were a month ago.

    In the past month the share of adult population to have received two doses of vaccine have gone from 31.8% to 53%
    That means there's 31% fewer adults without two doses now than there were a month ago.

    Considering that vaccinations are being prioritised based upon need there's frankly ever fewer and fewer people left to be infected, even if cases increase.

    Some significant local variations, Philip.

    In Newham, 120,000 adults (48%) over the age of 30 have yet to receive a first vaccination. That's not an insignificant number and while, to now, the Borough has managed to dodge most of the infection surges, I can't believe our "luck" will last forever.
    What is stopping them being vaccinated??
    Stupidity.
    No, every time they try and get a vaccination, a hypersonic UFO gets in the way....
    Is that Jezza's excuse?
    Well, if its a choice between

    1) They chose not to and are responsible as moral agents
    2) It was aliens

    Which do you think he would chose?
    Jews.
    All of them?
    Eh?

    I'm saying that's what Jezza would choose. Without it even being an option, that's what he'd choose.
    What about "Jewish Aliens"?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    She's an absolute tool, between her and Naomi Wolf The University of Oxford needs to take a long hard look at themselves at the sort of people they let in.
  • Options
    AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    The Guardian really will print anything if there’s a possibility of it owning the Tories. It’s standards don’t seem to be terribly high.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    Sadiq Khan: "No reason not to open on 21st June".

    https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1401974700398501894
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    Though, if London does become less desirable, that does benefit those that have to live there.

    The interesting question is, what happens to London weighting? There have been whispers that the civil service might start cutting wages if people refuse to go to the office.

    In a funny kind of way, we could end up with some people spending more time in the office. Pre-COVID there was a tendency for more senior members of staff to come and go as they pleased at my place. If we move to a more formal “you need to spend x number of hours at your desk”, some staff members will actually have to do more time in the office as it’ll have to apply to everyone.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    She's an absolute tool, between her and Naomi Wolf The University of Oxford needs to take a long hard look at themselves at the sort of people they let in.
    Don't forget the opposite of Pagel, Gupta.....the herd immunity was reached last summer...50% of people had it by March 2020...IFR is 0.001%....
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    It sorts of feels like the next 12-18 months will be ok, but not the next 3-5 years.

    It might explain why Boris wants a slightly early election.

    I actually think the UK economy is going to recover very strongly in the next 6 months and then grow very strongly over the next few years. People want a safe country to park their money and the UK is going to be a very strong choice as it sits outside of the ECJ and as that money filters through to the real economy we'll see a pretty big economic boost and boost in actual incomes.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    Sadiq Khan: "No reason not to open on 21st June".

    https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1401974700398501894

    @rcs1000 for some reason clicking a Twitter link now is coming up with a page warning "you are now leaving politicalbetting" instead of showing the page you click a link on.

    Having links instead of embeds has made the site work better, but if there's going to be a splash warning page every link that's going to get very old, very fast.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    edited June 2021

    Edit, well that didn't work
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    With the new flexible season tickets this is something that will get worse.

    I'm fortunate that I work for a great employer, last March they spared no expense so we could all comfortably work from home, from paying for desks and chairs, and improved broadband/internet connections.

    One colleague he and his wife who also worked from home, plus two teenage kids had to share a 37 Mbps internet connection.

    Work paid for them to have a second internet connection as well mobile broadband coverage.
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977

    alex_ said:

    How long till Portugal is back on the green list? They’re probably going to suffer from the Govt not wanting to look like idiots...

    The lists are reviewed every 3 weeks.

    3 weeks time will take us past 21 June at which point we should have fully reopened domestically so once that's happened the more things can go green the better after that point.

    Though I'd expect a big tranche of greens potentially in six weeks time instead. Gets us a few weeks past 21 June and gives the EU nations time to catch up on vaccinations.
    How long do we reckon it’ll be till we can travel without negative COVID tests. Surely fully vaccinated will be enough in the near future
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Why? If it is leading to hospital admissions sufficiently large to increase the number of people in hospital (the average stay seems to be falling) I would agree. Otherwise, so what?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    MaxPB said:

    It sorts of feels like the next 12-18 months will be ok, but not the next 3-5 years.

    It might explain why Boris wants a slightly early election.

    I actually think the UK economy is going to recover very strongly in the next 6 months and then grow very strongly over the next few years. People want a safe country to park their money and the UK is going to be a very strong choice as it sits outside of the ECJ and as that money filters through to the real economy we'll see a pretty big economic boost and boost in actual incomes.
    It's the return of inflation, challenges with decoupling from China (a deflationary contributor) and increased siege economy mentalities that worry me.

    I hope you're right, although the logic of that is that sterling is pushed rather high which would hurt our exports.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,364
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    Many decades ago, a chap who'd lived through the general strike told me the government was afraid of a communist revolution, though this was rarely mentioned afterwards.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    She's an absolute tool, between her and Naomi Wolf The University of Oxford needs to take a long hard look at themselves at the sort of people they let in.
    Don't forget the opposite of Pagel, Gupta.....the herd immunity was reached last summer...50% of people had it by March 2020...IFR is 0.001%....
    Yup, this lot also use numbers and trend lines nearly as badly as Alistair Hames.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,226
    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    (FPT)

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:



    How’s about we go back to what Dr. King taught us, and treat people according to the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin?

    Because this country by an large isnt all that racist anymore, yes we are still rooting out pockets of it but the truth is all those racism campaigners were virtually out of a job so they have latched on to a new money spinner with glee. They are just larcenous arseholes that would rather try and spin a fairy tale than get a proper job
    I can't believe that this country is not racist. The windrush deportations were, to my mind, evidence of outrageous institutional racism - a whole bureaucracy was set up with the apparent unspoken goal of deporting poor black people.

    I really hoped that the Black Lives Matter protests would start focussing on things like this rather than problems with police shootings which really do not apply in this country. These injustices still go on; children basically lose their fathers to destitution in foreign countries after they have completed their prison sentences. They are effectively banished under blair era legislation that gives vast powers to the state which are simply exercised in an inhumane way.

    Ask yourself - why should people with afro carribbean heritage suffer this fate whereas ethnic white people do not? How is that fair?

    There are people, disproportionately black people, that actually suffer banishment and get their lives ruined. No one supports them because they are drug dealers or have committed terrible crimes, but they still have families, and lives are actually ruined in tangible ways (ie they become destitute in third world countries with no local networks to support them), rather than suffering PTSD from microagressions or misspoken language or whatever.

    You will find many people posting on here who are oestensibly on my side of the argument (I am definetely not woke) who claim not to be racist but then celebrate the deportation of dual national criminals. I just think this, as much as wokeness, marks the decline of our civilisation.
    There's very little racism in the UK compared to almost anywhere else. It's interesting how it was just when most of the real racists died out, about 10 years ago, that the whole Woke thing started.
    If you truly believe this, then you are not looking or listening very hard.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    With the new flexible season tickets this is something that will get worse.

    I'm fortunate that I work for a great employer, last March they spared no expense so we could all comfortably work from home, from paying for desks and chairs, and improved broadband/internet connections.

    One colleague he and his wife who also worked from home, plus two teenage kids had to share a 37 Mbps internet connection.

    Work paid for them to have a second internet connection as well mobile broadband coverage.
    Flexible season tickets is a contradiction in terms! The whole point of a season ticket is that you can use it as much as you like in a given time period. That’s the definition of flexible!

    What people want is the day rate to be the same as the annual rate. What will happen is that there will end up being a single rate (that will look suspiciously like the day rate) and you simply pay for one journey at a time with the option of loading journeys on to a smart card.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    The reason I am not concerned is because of the vaccination programme. Cases in the young are mostly* not a problem, and as in Bolton, will rise, peak and fall, with minimal impact on the hospitals and deaths. It’s also not spreading that rapidly out of the metropolitan areas.

    *Important to note that this will be an issue for some unfortunate folk, but most will have had the chance of their vaccine very soon.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    She's an absolute tool, between her and Naomi Wolf The University of Oxford needs to take a long hard look at themselves at the sort of people they let in.
    Patel’s article today in the Guardian is a muddled bag of nails. Even the Guardianistas on CIF are picking holes in it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    dixiedean said:

    31% think the economy will get worse over the next 12 months?
    Who the heck are these people?
    Short of a war, new pandemic, asteroid strike or tsunami it can't possibly be worse than the past year.
    There are, of course, aliens...

    I thought the same thing. We have just had a year when GDP fell by about 9% as a result of Covid restrictions which are on the point of being removed. How the hell does the economy get worse?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    To stray off topic... Cristina Pagel in the guardian is now putting her hopes on the vaccination protection falling incredibly quickly in older people, specifically suggesting that for the most vulnerable it’s now at least three months since their last jab. I think this is terrible science. Reinfection after previous bought of Covid has been negligible, and there is every reason to think that vaccination will give as good, if not better protection. I think her belief is once more based on antibody titres falling, and neglecting that this is not the whole immune system. If this being peer review rather than paid by the guardian, it would be picked up on. It really does look like she, and others, are working from their worst case scenario hopes and trying to find a way it could happen.

    She's an absolute tool, between her and Naomi Wolf The University of Oxford needs to take a long hard look at themselves at the sort of people they let in.
    And Imperial, Birkbeck, Kings, Boston and UCL...perpetual student.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    Many decades ago, a chap who'd lived through the general strike told me the government was afraid of a communist revolution, though this was rarely mentioned afterwards.
    Yes - the reason that Churchill sent the troops in was to prevent an incident. He was worried that the Police would be armed by the local Chief constables, and shooting would start, kicking off something even worse.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    Freakonomics had a good episode recently about WFH...it could well be another driver of inequality, if you have a profession where you can WFH from basically anywhere, you can easily choose to live somewhere cheaper and save all the money on commuting etc, extending your advantage over others.

    Where as if you are a bus driver in London, you can hardly move to more than a quite limited distance from the capital with all the costs that incurs.
    With the new flexible season tickets this is something that will get worse.

    I'm fortunate that I work for a great employer, last March they spared no expense so we could all comfortably work from home, from paying for desks and chairs, and improved broadband/internet connections.

    One colleague he and his wife who also worked from home, plus two teenage kids had to share a 37 Mbps internet connection.

    Work paid for them to have a second internet connection as well mobile broadband coverage.
    Flexible season tickets is a contradiction in terms! The whole point of a season ticket is that you can use it as much as you like in a given time period. That’s the definition of flexible!

    What people want is the day rate to be the same as the annual rate. What will happen is that there will end up being a single rate (that will look suspiciously like the day rate) and you simply pay for one journey at a time with the option of loading journeys on to a smart card.
    TPE and EMR are offering me a flexi season ticket that allows me 8 days of travel in 28 days.

    It is brilliant and looks very reasonably priced.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Case numbers are pretty much now irrelevant. The important stat is numbers in hospital, which are remaining steady.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    edited June 2021

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    Many decades ago, a chap who'd lived through the general strike told me the government was afraid of a communist revolution, though this was rarely mentioned afterwards.
    Yes, and they had spent almost two years planning for it. Not just coal stocks in the right place either. There had been huge effort in making sure that ample stocks of yeast and flour were available and dispersed to the right locations, for example, so bread supplies were secured.

    One reason why Baldwin forced the issue in May 1926 by instructing the owners to lock the miners out was because the government were fully ready for the strike that might spark the revolution and were confident they could defeat it.

    And they were right.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    The reason I am not concerned is because of the vaccination programme. Cases in the young are mostly* not a problem, and as in Bolton, will rise, peak and fall, with minimal impact on the hospitals and deaths. It’s also not spreading that rapidly out of the metropolitan areas.

    *Important to note that this will be an issue for some unfortunate folk, but most will have had the chance of their vaccine very soon.
    A Consultant couple of my acquaintance is about to be a test of that theory. Both are long double vaxxed with Pfizer, but their vaccinated medical student son (also double vaxxed) just brought it home, and now the other kids all have it too.

    Fingers crossed for them
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    The Northampton shoe industry will have to expand to cope.
    I don't need to buy any more footwear for the rest of the year.

    I'm all stocked up.

    It is Turnbull & Asser and the bespoke tailors of Savile Row that will see the majority of my clothing & footwear spending.
    I've developed a thing for buying excess clothes over lockdown too. Particularly linen shirts for some reason. I've picked up some good gear at tasty prices.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roaring Twenties here we come!

    Personally I'm looking forward to the whorin' twenties.

    I want to avoid the roaring twenties because you know the Wall Street Crash.
    And the General Strike.
    I didn’t realise until I was looking at historic railway usage that the general strike didn’t last all that long. It had an impact on passenger journeys, but not that much and certainly nothing like COVID.
    Many decades ago, a chap who'd lived through the general strike told me the government was afraid of a communist revolution, though this was rarely mentioned afterwards.
    Yes - the reason that Churchill sent the troops in was to prevent an incident. He was worried that the Police would be armed by the local Chief constables, and shooting would start, kicking off something even worse.
    You’re confusing it with the railway strike of 1911. In 1926, Churchill was packed off to edit the government newspaper, the British Gazette, as he was too bellicose and wanted to shoot most of the strikers.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,364
    FPT re Royal Ascot. There is an old doc called Bookies Never Lose, which among other things shows Barry Dennis struggling to contain his frustration at posh women £2 punters at Royal Ascot. Some of the language may be unsafe for test cricketers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieSjfurNFw0&t=1800s
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    The reason I am not concerned is because of the vaccination programme. Cases in the young are mostly* not a problem, and as in Bolton, will rise, peak and fall, with minimal impact on the hospitals and deaths. It’s also not spreading that rapidly out of the metropolitan areas.

    *Important to note that this will be an issue for some unfortunate folk, but most will have had the chance of their vaccine very soon.
    A Consultant couple of my acquaintance is about to be a test of that theory. Both are long double vaxxed with Pfizer, but their vaccinated medical student son (also double vaxxed) just brought it home, and now the other kids all have it too.

    Fingers crossed for them
    Fingers crossed indeed. Any details on how sick, and how the son new he was infected (I.e. asymptomatic?)
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Case numbers are pretty much now irrelevant. The important stat is numbers in hospital, which are remaining steady.
    Hmmm...not looking that great either TBH in terms of trend...


  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,178
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Case numbers are pretty much now irrelevant. The important stat is numbers in hospital, which are remaining steady.
    Hmmm...not looking that great either TBH in terms of trend...


    Very different increase there. Hard to extrapolate but maybe 1000 a day by December, although of course much more complete vaccination by then too.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,164
    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Case numbers are pretty much now irrelevant. The important stat is numbers in hospital, which are remaining steady.
    Hmmm...not looking that great either TBH in terms of trend...


    But how many are double vaccinated. Very very few. Vaccines work. They’re the only route out.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    Taz said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    Case numbers are pretty much now irrelevant. The important stat is numbers in hospital, which are remaining steady.
    Hmmm...not looking that great either TBH in terms of trend...


    But how many are double vaccinated. Very very few. Vaccines work. They’re the only route out.
    I agree but there’s an interim stage I’m a bit concerned about...
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    The reason I am not concerned is because of the vaccination programme. Cases in the young are mostly* not a problem, and as in Bolton, will rise, peak and fall, with minimal impact on the hospitals and deaths. It’s also not spreading that rapidly out of the metropolitan areas.

    *Important to note that this will be an issue for some unfortunate folk, but most will have had the chance of their vaccine very soon.
    A Consultant couple of my acquaintance is about to be a test of that theory. Both are long double vaxxed with Pfizer, but their vaccinated medical student son (also double vaxxed) just brought it home, and now the other kids all have it too.

    Fingers crossed for them
    Fingers crossed indeed. Any details on how sick, and how the son new he was infected (I.e. asymptomatic?)
    Modest symptoms so far, but the crunch tends to be a week or so in, when either people get better, or go into the inflammatory phase.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    It sorts of feels like the next 12-18 months will be ok, but not the next 3-5 years.

    It might explain why Boris wants a slightly early election.

    I actually think the UK economy is going to recover very strongly in the next 6 months and then grow very strongly over the next few years. People want a safe country to park their money and the UK is going to be a very strong choice as it sits outside of the ECJ and as that money filters through to the real economy we'll see a pretty big economic boost and boost in actual incomes.
    It's the return of inflation, challenges with decoupling from China (a deflationary contributor) and increased siege economy mentalities that worry me.

    I hope you're right, although the logic of that is that sterling is pushed rather high which would hurt our exports.
    China is seeing surging input prices which is going to feed through to export prices soon which means decoupling from China won't make much difference to the overall picture.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,597
    Only a couple of years ago Naomi Wolf was regarded as a massive authority on lots of subjects. That was before she made a major error with one of her books, and then became an anti-vaxxer, leading to her being banned from Twitter.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,204
    Andy_JS said:

    Only a couple of years ago Naomi Wolf was regarded as a massive authority on lots of subjects. That was before she made a major error with one of her books, and then became an anti-vaxxer, leading to her being banned from Twitter.

    I think the issue with Wolf is she was always a tendentious fool, but that’s become much more obvious recently due to her higher profile.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,599
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Liftoff for the vaccine rocket under the economy.

    Yeah, I've made a ton of savings because of WFH.

    I feel morally obligated to spend that money to help the economy and the people who have struggled these last fifteen months.

    #Altruistic
    The Northampton shoe industry will have to expand to cope.
    I don't need to buy any more footwear for the rest of the year.

    I'm all stocked up.

    It is Turnbull & Asser and the bespoke tailors of Savile Row that will see the majority of my clothing & footwear spending.
    I've developed a thing for buying excess clothes over lockdown too. Particularly linen shirts for some reason. I've picked up some good gear at tasty prices.
    Work clothes such as suits are a real bargain at the moment. Not that I am buying, as it looks like scrubs for a while yet. NHS England has told us at the weekend that the June 21st relaxation doesn't apply to health care settings.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    I really do think we need to keep more of an eye on this than people on here think...


    The reason I am not concerned is because of the vaccination programme. Cases in the young are mostly* not a problem, and as in Bolton, will rise, peak and fall, with minimal impact on the hospitals and deaths. It’s also not spreading that rapidly out of the metropolitan areas.

    *Important to note that this will be an issue for some unfortunate folk, but most will have had the chance of their vaccine very soon.
    A Consultant couple of my acquaintance is about to be a test of that theory. Both are long double vaxxed with Pfizer, but their vaccinated medical student son (also double vaxxed) just brought it home, and now the other kids all have it too.

    Fingers crossed for them
    The ‘theory’ has already been tested and is manifest in the empirical evidence. There will be exceptions, of course.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138
    @BealeLab

    “ Recent case data indeed not looking good, it would be folly to open up on 21 June. Were it not for variant delta (first detected in India), there would be no problem in fully opening domestic economy. Wouldn’t even be a serious debate. But here we are… again…”

    There’s. No. Way. 21. June. Will. Happen.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Andy_JS said:

    Only a couple of years ago Naomi Wolf was regarded as a massive authority on lots of subjects. That was before she made a major error with one of her books, and then became an anti-vaxxer, leading to her being banned from Twitter.

    I always confuse her with Naomi Klein.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,414
    DougSeal said:

    @BealeLab

    “ Recent case data indeed not looking good, it would be folly to open up on 21 June. Were it not for variant delta (first detected in India), there would be no problem in fully opening domestic economy. Wouldn’t even be a serious debate. But here we are… again…”

    There’s. No. Way. 21. June. Will. Happen.

    June 21st will happen.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    It sorts of feels like the next 12-18 months will be ok, but not the next 3-5 years.

    It might explain why Boris wants a slightly early election.

    I actually think the UK economy is going to recover very strongly in the next 6 months and then grow very strongly over the next few years. People want a safe country to park their money and the UK is going to be a very strong choice as it sits outside of the ECJ and as that money filters through to the real economy we'll see a pretty big economic boost and boost in actual incomes.
    It's the return of inflation, challenges with decoupling from China (a deflationary contributor) and increased siege economy mentalities that worry me.

    I hope you're right, although the logic of that is that sterling is pushed rather high which would hurt our exports.
    China is seeing surging input prices which is going to feed through to export prices soon which means decoupling from China won't make much difference to the overall picture.
    Interesting, thanks. But doesn't that mean no antidote to global inflationary pressures though?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Andy_JS said:

    Only a couple of years ago Naomi Wolf was regarded as a massive authority on lots of subjects. That was before she made a major error with one of her books, and then became an anti-vaxxer, leading to her being banned from Twitter.

    And wasn't that book a repackaging of her PhD thesis?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    Andy_JS said:

    Only a couple of years ago Naomi Wolf was regarded as a massive authority on lots of subjects. That was before she made a major error with one of her books, and then became an anti-vaxxer, leading to her being banned from Twitter.

    Twitter is a terrible place.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,138

    DougSeal said:

    @BealeLab

    “ Recent case data indeed not looking good, it would be folly to open up on 21 June. Were it not for variant delta (first detected in India), there would be no problem in fully opening domestic economy. Wouldn’t even be a serious debate. But here we are… again…”

    There’s. No. Way. 21. June. Will. Happen.

    June 21st will happen.
    In the most literal sense of the date following the 20th, yes it will happen, but there cannot be any chance now of a full reopening of the economy,
This discussion has been closed.