COVID vaccination – the extraordinary political divide in the US – politicalbetting.com
COVID vaccination – the extraordinary political divide in the US – politicalbetting.com
One of the features of American politics I find difficult understanding is in the above polling. As can be seen supporters of Donald Trump’s party, the Republicans, have a much more negative of vaccination view than Democrats even to the extent that 42% say they don’t plan to take it
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First0
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Second! Like SKS.....1
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Rather sad.0
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FPT
It respected ours too.kinabalu said:
But the deal respected that red line of theirs. They wouldn't have done it otherwise.Philip_Thompson said:
That's their problem. Ours is protecting the integrity of the UK.kinabalu said:
Protecting the integrity of the SM was the EU's one and only true red line. That violates it.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Just don't have a hard border anywhere, problem solved. Fudge is the spirit of the GFA.RochdalePioneers said:
Bollox. It is the compromise arrangement that we insisted on. It is the trade deal that we negotiated. It is the operational model we signed. The EU had no interest at all in interjecting itself into the internal matters of a post-EU UK, where anyone with a brain can see that a GB-NI border is bonkers.CarlottaVance said:Iain Dale in ConHome:
The EU has no interest in Northern Ireland’s future prosperity. It just sees it as a mechanism to exert its power. It is a constitutional outrage that British companies are not free to trade without restriction to all parts of the sovereign United Kingdom. The checks that are now being demanded by the EU are so disproportionate as to be totally unreasonable. The British government bent over backwards to make a compromise to meet EU concerns that the Single Market could be compromised, but its goodwill has been exploited at every turn.
At some point this has to stop, and the unilateral extension of the grace period is the inevitable consequence of EU inflexibility. It is not, as the Irish government unhelpfully says, a breach of international law. What it is, is a sign that Britain’s patience with the EU on this issue is about to expire.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2021/03/iain-dale-the-eu-has-no-interest-in-northern-irelands-future-prosperity-it-just-sees-it-as-a-mechanism-to-exert-its-power.html
So, we are back to the unsolvable issue of the intra-Irish border. It must be open and unimpeded, but has to provide the hard border between the EU and UK demanded by our government. They proposed that we stay in the customs union and aligned to EU standards until a technology solution could be found. No, WE LEAVE NOW we demanded. Which means the only other place for the border is the Irish Sea.
Why do you think the Boris Burrows all lead to the Isle of Man? We have to put the customs post for the Boris Border somewhere, and the IoM fancies running duty free stores.
We should do whatever it takes, upto and including A16, to do our priority.
We are Great Britain not a second hand car dealer.
Invoking Article 16 is not breaking international law, anymore than invoking Article 50 was. It is acting within the provisions they agreed to.
The GFA was about ending the risk of violence from both sides. If the EU can't "de-escalate" the issue with the UK then the UK can unilaterally invoke Article 16 until there's no threat from or to either side anymore.2 -
Remarkable divergence. Rollout seems to have been pretty good in the US though, so is it bearing out?0
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I don't really see how the US survives long term in a state where everything is politicised like this. The country has nothing it can agree on anymore. They badly need a common enemy - China should do.3
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I guess it's only detectable when you've finished vaccinating the willing (assuming you move on to the next group when you've done all the easy targets in one).kle4 said:Remarkable divergence. Rollout seems to have been pretty good in the US though, so is it bearing out?
Huge numbers of "don't know" responses (I assume, to make 100%). Depending how those go, herd immunity may not be a given for the US.0 -
Not surprising.
The Republican Party has long flirted with anti-science -- objections to evolution & climate change, conspiracy theories.
The Democratic Party is fearful of genetic modification, industrial and agricultural chemistry.
The US has simultaneously an advanced scientific elite (driven by immigration), and a primitive, backward population.
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Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
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The USA polling on this is all over the place. On 21 January CNN had 61% willing to be vaccinated -
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/cnn-poll-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html
Then, on 10 Feb, Gallup had 71% willing to get vaccinated.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/americans-willingness-covid-19-vaccines-reaches-record-high/story?id=75807568
Those figures are difficult to square with the above unless you can factor in the fact that not all voters have indicated their affiliation when registering to vote.0 -
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The republicans are still the party of Reagan, and therefore deeply suspicious of big government in any form.YBarddCwsc said:
Not surprising.
The Republican Party has long flirted with anti-science -- objections to evolution & climate change, conspiracy theories.
The Democratic Party is fearful of genetic modification, industrial and agricultural chemistry.
The US has simultaneously an advanced scientific elite (driven by immigration), and a primitive, backward population.0 -
The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections now refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.4
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You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.3 -
The interesting thing will be to see if the numbers stay high. The indications that we have been given was that this week would be bad but next week was when it would change. Good measure of how accurate their forecasting is.DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/13678374002616238122 -
The good news is the Democrats are heavily concentrated in the cities while the countryside is full of Republicans. So firstly, the main centres of economic activity should be much closer to herd immunity than anywhere else, and secondly, at least the diehard refuseniks should mostly be out of the way of other people.Selebian said:
I guess it's only detectable when you've finished vaccinating the willing (assuming you move on to the next group when you've done all the easy targets in one).kle4 said:Remarkable divergence. Rollout seems to have been pretty good in the US though, so is it bearing out?
Huge numbers of "don't know" responses (I assume, to make 100%). Depending how those go, herd immunity may not be a given for the US.
That said, South Dakota for a long time had the highest death rate of anywhere in the country, so there's no guarantees.1 -
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
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If you vote, pay taxes or live in a fixed abode you're on a list. They know you.contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
Taking a vaccine doesn't put you on a list, nor does it give a reason they'd either want or have a reason or right to ask why not next time.4 -
And the notion that vaccines could be an outpost of big government is as good a demonstration as any of how messed up the Republicans are right now.contrarian said:
The republicans are still the party of Reagan, and therefore deeply suspicious of big government in any form.YBarddCwsc said:
Not surprising.
The Republican Party has long flirted with anti-science -- objections to evolution & climate change, conspiracy theories.
The Democratic Party is fearful of genetic modification, industrial and agricultural chemistry.
The US has simultaneously an advanced scientific elite (driven by immigration), and a primitive, backward population.2 -
It's all just culture war masquerading as something else. In Israel with a right wing government it's the left angry at restrictions.
In the EU, after years of attacking Trump for nationalism and idiocy, they've behaved as badly as he ever did the last couple of months.5 -
That's considerably better, and should keep growing, tho I confess I was hoping for a crazy figure, like 650,000DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1367837400261623812
Maybe we will hit those next week.
High vaccine numbers are my daily boost. I crave them, like a drug2 -
The way I see it is they can get there the easy way or the hard way. Democrats want to take the easy route, Republicans the hard one - https://globalnews.ca/news/7605082/herd-immunity-why-north-dakotas-coronavirus-cases-dropped-so-much/Endillion said:
The good news is the Democrats are heavily concentrated in the cities while the countryside is full of Republicans. So firstly, the main centres of economic activity should be much closer to herd immunity than anywhere else, and secondly, at least the diehard refuseniks should mostly be out of the way of other people.Selebian said:
I guess it's only detectable when you've finished vaccinating the willing (assuming you move on to the next group when you've done all the easy targets in one).kle4 said:Remarkable divergence. Rollout seems to have been pretty good in the US though, so is it bearing out?
Huge numbers of "don't know" responses (I assume, to make 100%). Depending how those go, herd immunity may not be a given for the US.
That said, South Dakota for a long time had the highest death rate of anywhere in the country, so there's no guarantees.1 -
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
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When the numbers are massive as they are now, and the economy so weak, it does work that way and that is why the treasury is so terrified of it. Its driving everything now and will do until the end of the parliament.Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.
Because mark my words, nightmare it will be.
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Still lower than last week, which wasn't anywhere near the best Thursday number either - the news reports that it'll be crap till next Wednesday seem true - just hope the 2nd part of the report is true and it starts to go through the roof after that.Leon said:
That's considerably better, and should keep growing, tho I confess I was hoping for a crazy figure, like 650,000DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1367837400261623812
Maybe we will hit those next week.
High vaccine numbers are my daily boost. I crave them, like a drug0 -
The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.3 -
Liz Truss is a liberal. If you're looking for Thatcher you'll find her as utterly disappointing as Penny Maudent has been.contrarian said:Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.0 -
450,000 (which is roughly what today will be, adding in the devolved nations) is not entirely crap. Every other European country would kill for these numbers. 450,000 means 312 jabs in every minute, five Britons every secondmaaarsh said:
Still lower than last week, which wasn't anywhere near the best Thursday number either - the news reports that it'll be crap till next Wednesday seem true - just hope the 2nd part of the report is true and it starts to go through the roof after that.Leon said:
That's considerably better, and should keep growing, tho I confess I was hoping for a crazy figure, like 650,000DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1367837400261623812
Maybe we will hit those next week.
High vaccine numbers are my daily boost. I crave them, like a drug
But yes, I nonetheless hope it speeds up. Not least coz I want my own bloody jab. Stick it in me!1 -
No it does not. Not tens of billions, not overnight.contrarian said:
When the numbers are massive as they are now, and the economy so weak, it does work that way and that is why the treasury is so terrified of it. Its driving everything now and will do until the end of the parliament.Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.
Because mark my words, nightmare it will be.
The Treasury rightly wants to take this issue seriously, but because its right to do so in the medium to long term, not because it will magically go up by tens of billions overnight when bonds are fixed for years and only a small amount of debt gets rolled over each month.0 -
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.0 -
Weren't the Tories supposed to be in big trouble right now, according to you? Looking forward to seeing if your autumn prediction pans out equally well.contrarian said:
When the numbers are massive as they are now, and the economy so weak, it does work that way and that is why the treasury is so terrified of it. Its driving everything now and will do until the end of the parliament.Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.
Because mark my words, nightmare it will be.2 -
Thatcher was a liberal though.maaarsh said:
Liz Truss is a liberal. If you're looking for Thatcher you'll find her as utterly disappointing as Penny Maudent has been.contrarian said:Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.0 -
Rather like the saying "every death is a tragedy" I've come to think that every vaccination is another family getting a bit of joy. Even if it's a smaller number, that's still 300,000+ joyous moments which is a comfort, while the effectiveness of the jab among the 21m already vaccinated grows greater every day. The big days will come, but that doesn't mean nothing is happening.Leon said:
That's considerably better, and should keep growing, tho I confess I was hoping for a crazy figure, like 650,000DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1367837400261623812
Maybe we will hit those next week.
High vaccine numbers are my daily boost. I crave them, like a drug4 -
So you'd rather see social distancing continue?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Will bear that in mind next time you wail against it.1 -
He thought Enemy of the State was a documentaryBluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
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Until a strain comes along, that, as discussed in parliament the other day by the lords and by many scientists, evades the current vaccine. Time for another lockdown, followed by another vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.0 -
Interesting. Just before I read your post I had completed an article on how "No Jab/No Job" policies are likely to be lawful and commonplace in a few months. As you say, though, your decision.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.1 -
I had this very same argument with a close antivaxxer friend. She loathes lockdown but won't have the jab. I tried to explain the logic: the vaccines are probably the only way, certainly the fastest way, OUT of lockdownPhilip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
She just wouldn't buy it. Antivaxxery is a weird mental condition. She's far from stupid
Anyway, when she realises she can't travel anyway or work in many jobs or go to gigs or festivals or whatever, she will, I suspect, be forced to rethink2 -
Thatcher was a liberal toomaaarsh said:
Liz Truss is a liberal. If you're looking for Thatcher you'll find her as utterly disappointing as Penny Maudent has been.contrarian said:Philip_Thompson said:
You keep being told but it literally does not work that way.contrarian said:Uh oh
Payrolls data showing US economy recovering quicker than expected, (I guess powered by the US states who told the lockdown lunatics to do one?)
US long rates going up further. 2/10 steepest in six years. Its going one way.
IF they don't open up sooner, the reflation trade is going to hit Sunak and Johnson like a tsunami. 40bn deficit is going to be 70 overnight and they are going to be seriously f8cked.
The deficit can't and won't balloon like that overnight. It isn't the way it works. Our bonds are not on variable interest rates that all simultaneously change overnight, they are fixed dated years or decades into the future.
A change in bond yields could be bad but not tens of billions overnight bad.
In the autumn, the tories will be in big trouble and looking to liz Truss to thatcherise her way out of this nightmare.2 -
What if they won't accept cash?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.2 -
I think you should go the whole hog: manufacture and administer your own vaccine. After all, what gives big pharma companies the right to decide what goes into your body, or qualified nurses the right to decide where to stick it in?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.6 -
The government should not insist "no jab/no job" but if an employer desires to do so then that is entirely libertarian.DougSeal said:
Interesting. Just before I read your post I had completed an article on how "No Jab/No Job" policies are likely to be lawful and commonplace in a few months. As you say, though, your decision.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.1 -
I am the last person to tell you not to have a vaccine. Have one. Me? I'll take my chances, thanks. Until I can pay to have one privately and confidentially. Which I may. Or may not.Leon said:
I had this very same argument with a close antivaxxer friend. She loathes lockdown but won't have the jab. I tried to explain the logic: the vaccines are probably the only way, certainly the fastest way, OUT of lockdownPhilip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
She just wouldn't buy it. Antivaxxery is a weird mental condition. She's far from stupid
Anyway, when she realises she can't travel anyway or work in many jobs or go to gigs or festivals or whatever, she will, I suspect, be forced to rethink0 -
Sez the artisanal flint sex toy knapperLeon said:
450,000 (which is roughly what today will be, adding in the devolved nations) is not entirely crap. Every other European country would kill for these numbers. 450,000 means 312 jabs in every minute, five Britons every secondmaaarsh said:
Still lower than last week, which wasn't anywhere near the best Thursday number either - the news reports that it'll be crap till next Wednesday seem true - just hope the 2nd part of the report is true and it starts to go through the roof after that.Leon said:
That's considerably better, and should keep growing, tho I confess I was hoping for a crazy figure, like 650,000DougSeal said:More like it...
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1367837400261623812
Maybe we will hit those next week.
High vaccine numbers are my daily boost. I crave them, like a drug
But yes, I nonetheless hope it speeds up. Not least coz I want my own bloody jab. Stick it in me!0 -
Anyone heard what is going on in Ynyswen - a serious incident with excess of 20 emergency vehicles on scene according to /Metro
https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/05/ynyswen-major-incident-declared-with-number-of-casualties-in-wales-14194706/0 -
I just dont know why vaccination is the line not to be crossed that indicates people want government to 'run our lives for us'. Government runs an awful lot of very important things, absent being an anti vaxxer what is the concern about government leading on this compared to such much else? Why do you think people getting a jab means they want the government to run their lives?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
It seems a bit victim complexy in order to be cast as a hero.2 -
I don't say this lightly, but you're an idiot then. This vaccine may save your life, and certainly may save the life of someone more at risk. The more of us who receive it, the better the effect will be. You obviously have no civic responsibility. I'd argue it is our duty to have it to protect others.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.5 -
I am advanced enough in years and wealth for that to still be my decision. I realise how lucky I am.DougSeal said:
Interesting. Just before I read your post I had completed an article on how "No Jab/No Job" policies are likely to be lawful and commonplace in a few months. As you say, though, your decision.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.0 -
Paranoid nonsense, though.contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
5 -
I assume that for consistency, if you or your loved ones are unfortunate enough to get very ill from covid (or, indeed, anything else), that you avoid using the state-provided NHS?contrarian said:
I am the last person to tell you not to have a vaccine. Have one. Me? I'll take my chances, thanks. Until I can pay to have one privately and confidentially. Which I may. Or may not.Leon said:
I had this very same argument with a close antivaxxer friend. She loathes lockdown but won't have the jab. I tried to explain the logic: the vaccines are probably the only way, certainly the fastest way, OUT of lockdownPhilip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
She just wouldn't buy it. Antivaxxery is a weird mental condition. She's far from stupid
Anyway, when she realises she can't travel anyway or work in many jobs or go to gigs or festivals or whatever, she will, I suspect, be forced to rethink
Or, if burgled, the state-provided police?7 -
Again not the way it works.contrarian said:
Until a strain comes along, that, as discussed in parliament the other day by the lords and by many scientists, evades the current vaccine. Time for another lockdown, followed by another vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
An evolving strain doesn't magically 100% evade the vaccine overnight, it tends to make the vaccine less effective not 100% ineffective.1 -
That's what will happen IMO. Ditto airlines. I don't think there will be a domestic vaccine passport, likely unworkable, but if you want access to employment or international travel (i.e. nearly everyone) you will need to be vaccinated.Philip_Thompson said:
The government should not insist "no jab/no job" but if an employer desires to do so then that is entirely libertarian.DougSeal said:
Interesting. Just before I read your post I had completed an article on how "No Jab/No Job" policies are likely to be lawful and commonplace in a few months. As you say, though, your decision.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.3 -
FPT - re Covid deaths leading to savings in NHS and care costs:
Surely the NHS savings will be limited as the knock-on effect is to reduce waiting lists - ie they aren't going to close any hospitals / sack any nurses - if excess deaths create space it'll just be used treating someone else who was next in line.
Re care costs it's maybe less clear cut - OK there will be savings from less home visits etc. But I doubt any council care homes will close - any spaces will likely be filled by people who were previously marginal re needing to go into care (albeit that saves further on home visits).0 -
Did you get to the heart of why she is anti-vax?Leon said:
I had this very same argument with a close antivaxxer friend. She loathes lockdown but won't have the jab. I tried to explain the logic: the vaccines are probably the only way, certainly the fastest way, OUT of lockdownPhilip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
She just wouldn't buy it. Antivaxxery is a weird mental condition. She's far from stupid
Anyway, when she realises she can't travel anyway or work in many jobs or go to gigs or festivals or whatever, she will, I suspect, be forced to rethink0 -
So theyd have to update the vaccine like with flu jabs, so what?contrarian said:
Until a strain comes along, that, as discussed in parliament the other day by the lords and by many scientists, evades the current vaccine. Time for another lockdown, followed by another vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
Are we supposed to be horrified that viruses mutate and the defence to them might need updating?3 -
It is your decision, though.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
You've just decided not to.
What you've written is patently absurd.2 -
..0
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Exactly - why is this the line?Andy_Cooke said:
I assume that for consistency, if you or your loved ones are unfortunate enough to get very ill from covid (or, indeed, anything else), that you avoid using the state-provided NHS?contrarian said:
I am the last person to tell you not to have a vaccine. Have one. Me? I'll take my chances, thanks. Until I can pay to have one privately and confidentially. Which I may. Or may not.Leon said:
I had this very same argument with a close antivaxxer friend. She loathes lockdown but won't have the jab. I tried to explain the logic: the vaccines are probably the only way, certainly the fastest way, OUT of lockdownPhilip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
She just wouldn't buy it. Antivaxxery is a weird mental condition. She's far from stupid
Anyway, when she realises she can't travel anyway or work in many jobs or go to gigs or festivals or whatever, she will, I suspect, be forced to rethink
Or, if burgled, the state-provided police?
People argue about how much the state should do or provide, our ancestors would be stunned at what we expect I have no doubt. But with what even small state people expect, why is this too much and not something else?0 -
Excuse me, but what utter bullsh8tturbotubbs said:
I don't say this lightly, but you're an idiot then. This vaccine may save your life, and certainly may save the life of someone more at risk. The more of us who receive it, the better the effect will be. You obviously have no civic responsibility. I'd argue it is our duty to have it to protect others.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
No civic responsibility? I have paid higher rate taxes all my life. All my life. That;s a lot of schools and hospitals matey.
I'm not going to be lectured by some obese gobsh8te in a mask on benefits or furlough who is' protecting others' by needing vast amount of expensive care due to their gluttony and lack of exercise.
I've written the government an enormous cheque and in return I respectfully suggest you effing do one.0 -
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.2 -
Some people think being offered something by government is the government taking the decision away from you, and taking up the offer essentially a moral failing. I dont understand it.Nigelb said:
It is your decision, though.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
You've just decided not to.
What you've written is patently absurd.1 -
The scientific consensus is emerging that new variants may evade antibody protection but are very unlikely indeed to evade T-Cell immunity for all time. Here's something from one of those evil members of SAGE you love to imagine stroking white cats under dormant volcanos -contrarian said:
Until a strain comes along, that, as discussed in parliament the other day by the lords and by many scientists, evades the current vaccine. Time for another lockdown, followed by another vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
2 -
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.0 -
Look at the user name and stop feeding the troll1
-
Not so. They are now the party of Trump, and therefore deeply suspicious...contrarian said:
The republicans are still the party of Reagan, and therefore deeply suspicious of big government in any form.YBarddCwsc said:
Not surprising.
The Republican Party has long flirted with anti-science -- objections to evolution & climate change, conspiracy theories.
The Democratic Party is fearful of genetic modification, industrial and agricultural chemistry.
The US has simultaneously an advanced scientific elite (driven by immigration), and a primitive, backward population.2 -
You've written the government a cheque? You realise that means they know who you are?contrarian said:
Excuse me, but what utter bullsh8tturbotubbs said:
I don't say this lightly, but you're an idiot then. This vaccine may save your life, and certainly may save the life of someone more at risk. The more of us who receive it, the better the effect will be. You obviously have no civic responsibility. I'd argue it is our duty to have it to protect others.contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
No civic responsibility? I have paid higher rate taxes all my life. All my life. That;s a lot of schools and hospitals matey.
I'm not going to be lectured by some obese gobsh8te in a mask on benefits or furlough who is' protecting others' by needing vast amount of expensive care due to their gluttony and lack of exercise.
I've written the government an enormous cheque and in return I respectfully suggest you effing do one.
8 -
I think so - he's very rude. I mean how does he know I'm obese? Must be looking at my webcam...Floater said:Look at the user name and stop feeding the troll
2 -
Oddly, some who are very keen on always being allowed to do what they want are very opposed to others doing what they want, if it affects them or is not something they like.Endillion said:
I think you should go the whole hog: manufacture and administer your own vaccine. After all, what gives big pharma companies the right to decide what goes into your body, or qualified nurses the right to decide where to stick it in?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Almost like society leads to competing interests that might need some wider consideration.0 -
Instead, you are relying on the rest of us to be vaccinated, to get you out of lockdown.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.
I'm happy to do that for you, but your argument is neither persuasive nor principled.8 -
4
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The only anti vaxer I know in this country also believes in QAnon, Trumpism, that the election was stolen and all that. The large minority of the US population must be subject to a sort of mass hallucination, which is too widespread to be a psychiatric illness (which is seems to resemble) so I suppose there is hope that, like Germany after the war, they will recover.0
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Indeed. Although "effective" is a broad word. It would be surprising if it was completely ineffective.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/13678444024214650931 -
Under 60s seems now to be a thing (despite the wording still up on the NHS link).
Just managed to book a vaccination for a week Saturday.4 -
Scotland split 29,064 8,139
England 320,388 45,045
Wales 15,502 15,3740 -
It SHOULD have ben Covid.....Endillion said:I don't really see how the US survives long term in a state where everything is politicised like this. The country has nothing it can agree on anymore. They badly need a common enemy - China should do.
6 -
So you don't vote, aren't registered with the NHS, don't have a driving licence, don't pay NI and don't have a passport?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
You're already on a list somewhere you utter fool.5 -
I didn't know we had an Anti-Vax Simpleton Party in this country. I suppose you could always start one yourself.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.1 -
And you are relying on me and people like me to keep paying higher rate taxes in spades so that when the NHS is needed, it is there for you and everybody. And the rest of the welfare state.Nigelb said:
Instead, you are relying on the rest of us to be vaccinated, to get you out of lockdown.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.
I'm happy to do that for you, but your argument is neither persuasive nor principled.
You are relying on me to keep working in the UK and paying taxes in the UK, but having people all over the world use and pay for my services, so the money keeps flowing in. Which I am happy to do.
And so frankly you know where you can stick your bullsh*t lecture.0 -
Excellent news. I have to say from a poor start due to a badly put together trial the AZ vaccine could end up being top of the class. I've been reading some private research on what I was talking about earlier this week on mixing the AZ and J&J jabs for 2 doses 12 weeks apart and some of the modelling says it could have the highest efficacy of any combination.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/13678444024214650931 -
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-perpetual-covid-crisis-11614902148?st=6hr89bhcw2pla9d&reflink=article_email_share
OMG its those anti-lockdown conspiracy theorists at.....er......the Wall Street Journal.0 -
Hmm, there are a lot of additional rate tax payers on PB and we're all getting the vaccine. In fact of those that I know on here I'm probably one of the few that hasn't had it yet and I'm just waiting patiently for my turn.contrarian said:
And you are relying on me and people like me to keep paying higher rate taxes in spades so that when the NHS is needed, it is there for you and everybody. And the rest of the welfare state.Nigelb said:
Instead, you are relying on the rest of us to be vaccinated, to get you out of lockdown.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.
I'm happy to do that for you, but your argument is neither persuasive nor principled.
You are relying on me to keep working in the UK and paying taxes in the UK, but having people all over the world use and pay for my services, so the money keeps flowing in. Which I am happy to do.
And so frankly you know where you can stick your bullsh*t lecture.
Paying tax has nothing to do with getting or not getting a vaccine. You're a complete and utter fool.2 -
So the site's resident Covid denier is now an antivaxxer?
1 -
I think that message needs to be rammed home again and again and again. Those nifty T-Cells and etc. mean that these vaccines will probably stop you going to hospital and will almost certainly stop you dying. The more I read about the 1889-90 Russian Flu pandemic (i.e. common reported symptoms of loss of taste/long lasting lethargy together with the recent virological studies) the more I am inclined to the view it was a coronavirus that even today we continue to get - but exposure to it has blunted its effect over 130 years to the level of a bad cold. No human immune system in the world was quite ready for this (there may have been some exceptions) but more and more people have been exposed to vaccines or infection so we have, I really believe, seen the worst of this pandemic. It will still be around but the worst is behind us.Selebian said:
Indeed. Although "effective" is a broad word. It would be surprising if it was completely ineffective.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1367844402421465093
There's still away to go though - and we also have to prepare for the next pandemic now...1 -
Read my posts. I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti lockdown. By all means take a vaccine. They are safe and lovely and they work really, really well. I would never try to dissaude someone from taking a vaccine.BluestBlue said:
I didn't know we had an Anti-Vax Simpleton Party in this country. I suppose you could always start one yourself.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.1 -
It's such an odd thing to come into contact with one of the 5% of actual hardcore anti-vaxxers that doesn't post BTL on the Telegraph of Express.BluestBlue said:
I didn't know we had an Anti-Vax Simpleton Party in this country. I suppose you could always start one yourself.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.3 -
ohh is there a link - asks the 57 yo only person in house not having had first jabLeon said:
Thankyou!!Nigelb said:Under 60s seems now to be a thing (despite the wording still up on the NHS link).
Just managed to book a vaccination for a week Saturday.
Just booked. Next Friday. Francis Crick Institute. I GET THE JABBB!!!!
REALLY efficient. Took 3 minutes. So impressive0 -
Forgoing the vaccine should be everyone’s libertarian choice. Equally it should be the taxpayers’ choice not to give them healthcare in our hospitals or their kids an education in our schools. Scared of the big bad state, well it cuts both ways matey.4
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Jeez - yet another reason to just gasp with amazement at the incredible stupidity of politicians, civil servants, scientists, doctors and everyone else in Europe.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/13678444024214650932 -
I don't see why there should be a "substantial" degree of Covid deaths. We need 93-95% to keep measles suppressed. We are seeing that level of take up of the Covid vaccine in the over 70's. I suspect it will be that for all age groups, but the "substantial" deaths are only in those upper age bands.DougSeal said:
The scientific consensus is emerging that new variants may evade antibody protection but are very unlikely indeed to evade T-Cell immunity for all time. Here's something from one of those evil members of SAGE you love to imagine stroking white cats under dormant volcanos -contrarian said:
Until a strain comes along, that, as discussed in parliament the other day by the lords and by many scientists, evades the current vaccine. Time for another lockdown, followed by another vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:The funny thing is contrarian claims to want to open up and get back to normal - but vaccines do that. If everyone is vaccinated then Covid is effectively defeated and manageable and we can get back to normal.
If people aren't vaccinated then Covid remains and people socially distance by choice rather than by law. Businesses struggle. Debts accrue. Children and others suffer.
To keep the Covid fires stoked, you are effectively going to need all the unvaccinated meeting up to pass it on to themselves. And if they do - that is choice they have made, however stupid their pool of knowledge.1 -
Do they then get to pay no tax?moonshine said:Forgoing the vaccine should be everyone’s libertarian choice. Equally it should be the taxpayers’ choice not to give them healthcare in our hospitals or their kids an education in our schools. Scared of the big bad state, well it cuts both ways matey.
in reality its stupid talking in these extremes given even you would balk at kids being denied education for their parents actions0 -
I know that.MaxPB said:
Hmm, there are a lot of additional rate tax payers on PB and we're all getting the vaccine. In fact of those that I know on here I'm probably one of the few that hasn't had it yet and I'm just waiting patiently for my turn.contrarian said:
And you are relying on me and people like me to keep paying higher rate taxes in spades so that when the NHS is needed, it is there for you and everybody. And the rest of the welfare state.Nigelb said:
Instead, you are relying on the rest of us to be vaccinated, to get you out of lockdown.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.
I'm happy to do that for you, but your argument is neither persuasive nor principled.
You are relying on me to keep working in the UK and paying taxes in the UK, but having people all over the world use and pay for my services, so the money keeps flowing in. Which I am happy to do.
And so frankly you know where you can stick your bullsh*t lecture.
Paying tax has nothing to do with getting or not getting a vaccine. You're a complete and utter fool.
Here's me encouraging and supporting you in your quest to get a vaccine. I may get one myself. In my own time.0 -
Sometimes internal divisions are so deep that external threat causes further fracturing, rather than bringing people together.Endillion said:I don't really see how the US survives long term in a state where everything is politicised like this. The country has nothing it can agree on anymore. They badly need a common enemy - China should do.
I think the QAnon/Trump 30% will never support a Democratic President to any extent. Just look at how quickly Republican voters' views on Russia changed after Trump started sucking up to Putin.0 -
So you aren't anti-vaxxer but you're not taking the vaccine? Schrödinger's anti-vaxxer?contrarian said:
Read my posts. I am not anti-vaccine. I am anti lockdown. By all means take a vaccine. They are safe and lovely and they work really, really well. I would never try to dissaude someone from taking a vaccine.BluestBlue said:
I didn't know we had an Anti-Vax Simpleton Party in this country. I suppose you could always start one yourself.contrarian said:
There are conservatives in America who are not demanding you take a vaccine to get you out of lockdown. That is the kind of conservative I will be voting for in Britain . If I can find one.BluestBlue said:
So you're not willing to take a safe and effective jab now in order to get us out of lockdown and put an end to the pandemic?contrarian said:
I haven;t taken a vaccine, my family haven't and I won't be taking one while the government is driving the whole thing. When I can get a vaccine on privately and confidentially, I may take one.BluestBlue said:
Interesting. Did you develop these paranoid delusions before or after taking a vaccine?contrarian said:
To independent people, a state vaccine means you are on the list. They know you. They know you take vaccines. When the next vaccine comes long in six months, they want you to take it. If you don;t, they will want to know why.BluestBlue said:The Republican figure can be summed up as the people who most wanted slow and dangerous herd immunity through mass infections refusing instant and safe herd immunity via a vaccine. Contrarianism doesn't really pay when it comes to medical science.
That will be my decision. Not Matt Hancock's. You want him to run your life for you, that is your affair.
Thanks for finally making your position clear.5 -
One of the things a colleague said to me sticks in my head - most of the vaccines are using the same spike protein, so ultimately its likely the effectiveness won't differ hugely (delivery methods may play a role). It is a shame that AZ stuffed up the trial, but all of this was done at speed, and we are now in Phase III+ - the real world. The emerging data is great, and I suspect the vaccines will be much of a muchness by the end.MaxPB said:
Excellent news. I have to say from a poor start due to a badly put together trial the AZ vaccine could end up being top of the class. I've been reading some private research on what I was talking about earlier this week on mixing the AZ and J&J jabs for 2 doses 12 weeks apart and some of the modelling says it could have the highest efficacy of any combination.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/13678444024214650930 -
My mother-in-law, who has really bad allergies, had such a reaction to her first Pfizer dose that she was told not to come back for the second. Any news on your grapevine about her following up with the J&J shot (she's in the States)?MaxPB said:
Excellent news. I have to say from a poor start due to a badly put together trial the AZ vaccine could end up being top of the class. I've been reading some private research on what I was talking about earlier this week on mixing the AZ and J&J jabs for 2 doses 12 weeks apart and some of the modelling says it could have the highest efficacy of any combination.DougSeal said:NIce if true...
https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/13678444024214650930
