In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo
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As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.0 -
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They saw the success of Boris’s “no deal” gambit?MaxPB said:
Yes, Trump's America first didn't institute export bans to countries it relied on for imports to make those products!Richard_Nabavi said:
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
It's literally the most stupid plan.
The EU has picked up the gun, put it against its own head and said "give us what we want or we'll pull this trigger". I don't know what they are trying to achieve.0 -
Sounds fair enough to me. Also the PBers in question would be the first to complain when they see her interacting with (other) Europeans, or even just opining on furrin policy. They were IIRC rather too ready to believe Carmichael A. on the same general topic (the resulting court judgement is one of the minor classics of the political internet as regards LDs).Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I implied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.0 -
Just checking in. Slow news day then?1
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Comedy gold. I think it indicates rather just how much the EU has f*cked up.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
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"blistering"kle4 said:
For my sanity, diplomats, open a thesaurus and find a new word for 'constructive'.CarlottaVance said:1 -
Thanks to everyone for the kind words. We genuinely have been on speaking terms. Even after her multiple blackmail attempts and her trying to break my marriage apart. I forgive as we are all commanded to forgive. But I've had enough. I know she is (self-diagnosed but probably true) bipolar and that she is on one of her "I am a heinous bitch when I'm on it" moods. So for everyone's benefit this has to stop. Part of the reason I am on anti-depressants is her.CarlottaVance said:
Commiserations. My brother went through an acrimonious break up, mercifully all are now reconciled...good luck.RochdalePioneers said:
My ex (we have a nearly 20 year old son) has been this mad before. Now she is making all kinds of crazy legal threats which are frankly laughable. But she isn't taking no for an answer and wants more money for our "child" because any court would say what I have provided isn't sufficient for one in full-time education.eek said:
That doesn't stop it reaching voicemail it just stops your phone ringing. If the person leaves a message you still get told a voice mail has been left.DougSeal said:
It's easy on an iPhone. Just open their card in your contacts and hit "block". Other smartphones are available though.RochdalePioneers said:Question - does anyone know how to block a number so that they can't leave you voicemail?
Will prevent me from having to report my ex for harassment...
Yes. But we have an adult son. Not a child. Who is not in education at all (gap year). And she has spent the £5k I voluntarily provided to keep him this year. Please. Sue me. All I am getting is "you are buying a 5 bedroom house for two of your children whilst your eldest child isn't benefiting.
Yes yes, except that he can live with me when not at uni (starts a year late in September), knows he has an endless invite to do so. And he isn't a child as he's nearly fucking 20. I had the police on her two years back for attempted blackmail and harassment. They were interested. Our son brokered a truce. Shouldn't have let him...0 -
Orgasmic might be a bad choice however.rottenborough said:
"blistering"kle4 said:
For my sanity, diplomats, open a thesaurus and find a new word for 'constructive'.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I can't keep up. Its been a high speed week. Really good day work wise, and then the "lets hate the EU" stuff from earlier has turned into comedy gold with the EU playing the role of Chamberlain waving pieces of paper at Astra Zenecasolarflare said:Just checking in. Slow news day then?
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Who exactly is driving this reactionary approach on the EU side? My gut is that its the German and French governments as much as the EU commission.
Things like this are seen as a problem for the European project and I'm wondering if that is causing the pushing of every red button on the console.
Imagine a situation where the Pfizer stuff gets stopped dead for a bit, people left without their 2nd dose. Really a very bad look.1 -
No, they've turned positively Trumpian and tonight was like Trump going so far even Fox had to disown him.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
Tonight they went so far off the reservation that without provocation, consultation or discussion with Ireland they tore up the Good Friday Agreement . . .3 -
Agree completely - I was going to "binge" - but decided to watch slowly - each episode is worth savouring - even though we know the catastrophe unfolding..just watched episode 2 - the paranoia of the mug....RochdalePioneers said:Its a Sin has been mentioned - a spectacular piece of television. RTD has made some fantastic stuff over the years but this was mind-blowing.
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I was furious about the similar bullshit in that German rag (unfortunately the equivalent of the FT, but still clearly a filthy rag). To hear it from the President of France is frankly bewildering, and profoundly depressing.Floater said:
He should be no platformed from now on. Essentially barred from talking about vaccines ever again.0 -
This is hilarious.1
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To be fair it was someone inadvertently triggering Article 16 without knowing what it meant. Which is perfectly fine.Philip_Thompson said:
No, they've turned positively Trumpian and tonight was like Trump going so far even Fox had to disown him.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
Tonight they went so far off the reservation that without provocation, consultation or discussion with Ireland they tore up the Good Friday Agreement . . .3 -
Good luck with everything, don't let the bugger get you down.RochdalePioneers said:
Thanks to everyone for the kind words. We genuinely have been on speaking terms. Even after her multiple blackmail attempts and her trying to break my marriage apart. I forgive as we are all commanded to forgive. But I've had enough. I know she is (self-diagnosed but probably true) bipolar and that she is on one of her "I am a heinous bitch when I'm on it" moods. So for everyone's benefit this has to stop. Part of the reason I am on anti-depressants is her.CarlottaVance said:
Commiserations. My brother went through an acrimonious break up, mercifully all are now reconciled...good luck.RochdalePioneers said:
My ex (we have a nearly 20 year old son) has been this mad before. Now she is making all kinds of crazy legal threats which are frankly laughable. But she isn't taking no for an answer and wants more money for our "child" because any court would say what I have provided isn't sufficient for one in full-time education.eek said:
That doesn't stop it reaching voicemail it just stops your phone ringing. If the person leaves a message you still get told a voice mail has been left.DougSeal said:
It's easy on an iPhone. Just open their card in your contacts and hit "block". Other smartphones are available though.RochdalePioneers said:Question - does anyone know how to block a number so that they can't leave you voicemail?
Will prevent me from having to report my ex for harassment...
Yes. But we have an adult son. Not a child. Who is not in education at all (gap year). And she has spent the £5k I voluntarily provided to keep him this year. Please. Sue me. All I am getting is "you are buying a 5 bedroom house for two of your children whilst your eldest child isn't benefiting.
Yes yes, except that he can live with me when not at uni (starts a year late in September), knows he has an endless invite to do so. And he isn't a child as he's nearly fucking 20. I had the police on her two years back for attempted blackmail and harassment. They were interested. Our son brokered a truce. Shouldn't have let him...0 -
It also ignores - I suspect - that Mr Peck would have been advocating furiously that we joined the EU programme rather than having our own.Leon said:
I kind of admire his fortitude. He's one of those 90 year old Japs still holding out in the Malaysian jungleAndy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/13552278581180784673 -
Floater said:
As someone observed earlier the "over 65s" is something of a speciality in Macron's case...1 -
Actually, good point - calling twitter...............TrèsDifficile said:
I was furious about the similar bullshit in that German rag (unfortunately the equivalent of the FT, but still clearly a filthy rag). To hear it from the President of France is frankly bewildering, and profoundly depressing.Floater said:
He should be no platformed from now on. Essentially barred from talking about vaccines ever again.0 -
WAiting to see the dust settle a bit more.Luckyguy1983 said:
I'd be more interested in hearing TUD's own view, and Carnyx's too. Both are clearly finding the outpouring of Brexitism on PB quite revolting, but I'd be interested in an honest take on the situation itself from either of both of them.MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?0 -
Its a bit like needing 400 in the final innings of a test match, clear lbw early on, you review the decision, DRS says definitely out, you end up having a physical altercation with the umpire, you swing for him, one of your own team steps in to try and calm things down and you inadvertently strike your own team mate and end up breaking your hand. All live on telly.williamglenn said:3 -
Emmanuel Macron = Desmond Swayne. Sad.TrèsDifficile said:
I was furious about the similar bullshit in that German rag (unfortunately the equivalent of the FT, but still clearly a filthy rag). To hear it from the President of France is frankly bewildering, and profoundly depressing.Floater said:
He should be no platformed from now on. Essentially barred from talking about vaccines ever again.2 -
Its amazing how a supranational and essentially undemocratic body can invoke such unquestioning justification attempts. There is less fervour for the old Soviet Union ffs.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/13552278581180784674 -
Given the leaks from the german government to the press, and Macron's comments, it seems very likely they are the drivers.Yokes said:Who exactly is driving this reactionary approach on the EU side? My gut is that its the German and French governments as much as the EU commission.
Things like this are seen as a problem for the European project and I'm wondering if that is causing the pushing of every red button on the console.
Imagine a situation where the Pfizer stuff gets stopped dead for a bit, people left without their 2nd dose. Really a very bad look.
The EU doesn't need to worry that every problem will be a major issue for the European project. That's pretty darn solid. The overuse of talk of unity seems like another sign of them being a bit too worried about the possibility of the project getting blowback when something goes wrong.
Which I suppose is better than not reacting at all to problems, but it is not the most, ahem, constructive, approach.1 -
I can sport a statistical flaw in that plan...theoldpolitics said:If the Leave.EU people are as tactically smart as they used to be, there will soon be a very prominent counter appearing which tallies how many people are alive today who would be dead if we had stayed in the EU and been tied to their failed vaccine procurement. Not that hard to calculate and only going to go in one direction unless something very surprising happens.
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I don't 'need' to do either thing, sport.MrEd said:
As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.0 -
RE:AZ vaccine. Has anyone seen the subsample for 41-42 year olds? I'm concerned it might not show enough evidence of effectiveness?4
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I think this ridiculous week has done long term, and rather serious damage to the EU. Never again will some stupid Remainer be allowed to loftily pontificate that "the EU is a serious, clever, law-abiding organisation, which would never stoop so low as to" [insert usual pompous drivel here]Fenman said:
Is this crisis really about the UK and Eire? How are the back of the queue East European nations going to take this? Could this eventually lead to other leavers? Hungary isn't the only unhappy one and Putin will devote effort and resources to help stir more troubles for the EU.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Plenty on evidence on here they are changing rapidlyFoxy said:
One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.RobD said:
That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.Foxy said:
Likely to be surprisingly close. Rejoin on 48% before the campaign starts...rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1355171670688980993?s=19
The EU has revealed itself, in the depths of a terrible crisis, to be the blundering, monolithic, dithering, anti-democratic, designed-to-be-mediocre theatre of political clownng (however nobly intentioned) that Brexiteers always claimed. This is a wet dream for the likes of Bill Cash and John Redwood (and one they don't deserve: they are idiots, too)
This week will never be forgotten. Once you lose the "moral high ground" it is very hard to regain.2 -
Someone accidentally tore up the Good Friday Agreement. 😂RobD said:
To be fair it was someone inadvertently triggering Article 16 without knowing what it meant. Which is perfectly fine.Philip_Thompson said:
No, they've turned positively Trumpian and tonight was like Trump going so far even Fox had to disown him.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
Tonight they went so far off the reservation that without provocation, consultation or discussion with Ireland they tore up the Good Friday Agreement . . .1 -
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/13552278581180784671 -
Today has been more like your top five batsmen all hitting their own wicket.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its a bit like needing 400 in the final innings of a test match, clear lbw early on, you review the decision, DRS says definitely out, you end up having a physical altercation with the umpire, you swing for him, one of your own team steps in to try and calm things down and you inadvertently strike your own team mate and end up breaking your hand. All live on telly.williamglenn said:
Now you are into the tail.1 -
Leave eu dont need to do anything, in ten years time the eu will be nothing we will ever wanting to rejoin. Even now they are using the vaccines crisis they created to argue for more eutheoldpolitics said:If the Leave.EU people are as tactically smart as they used to be, there will soon be a very prominent counter appearing which tallies how many people are alive today who would be dead if we had stayed in the EU and been tied to their failed vaccine procurement. Not that hard to calculate and only going to go in one direction unless something very surprising happens.
1 -
It's quite easy if somebody voluntarily starts digging a hole next to you.Leon said:
I think this ridiculous week has done long term, and rather serious damage to the EU. Never again will some stupid Remainer be allowed to loftily pontificate that "the EU is a serious, clever, law-abiding organisation, which would never stoop so low as to" [insert usual pompous drivel here]Fenman said:
Is this crisis really about the UK and Eire? How are the back of the queue East European nations going to take this? Could this eventually lead to other leavers? Hungary isn't the only unhappy one and Putin will devote effort and resources to help stir more troubles for the EU.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Plenty on evidence on here they are changing rapidlyFoxy said:
One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.RobD said:
That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.Foxy said:
Likely to be surprisingly close. Rejoin on 48% before the campaign starts...rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1355171670688980993?s=19
The EU has revealed itself, in the depths of a terrible crisis, to be the blundering, monolithic, dithering, anti-democratic, designed-to-be-mediocre theatre of political clownng (however nobly intentioned) that Brexiteers always claimed. This is a wet dream for the likes of Bill Cash and John Redwood (and one they don't deserve: they are idiots, too)
This week will never be forgotten. Once you lose the "moral high ground" it is very hard to regain.0 -
It's an existential threat to the whole European project. The whole project relies on the belief that bigger is better and that, by trading in their sovereignty, nations are getting a better outcome overall.Yokes said:Who exactly is driving this reactionary approach on the EU side? My gut is that its the German and French governments as much as the EU commission.
Things like this are seen as a problem for the European project and I'm wondering if that is causing the pushing of every red button on the console.
Imagine a situation where the Pfizer stuff gets stopped dead for a bit, people left without their 2nd dose. Really a very bad look.
The vaccination rollout is also something that is easily understood by anyone and is also quite black and white.
Hence the attempts to blame the situation on anyone other than the EU. If people start to believe the EU is the real cause of the problem, they - and all the politicians who back the European project - are f*cked2 -
Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=201 -
It might be argued thus. OTOH, insisting that the woman shouldn't stick her oar in where it don't belong one day, then demanding that she do it the next, is almost as great an act of contortion as that performed by the dumb idiot from Twitter posted downthread, who used the EU's vaccine mafia tactics as an argument for why it was a mistake to leave the EU.MrEd said:
I'll have to disagree with you there @Black_Rook which is one of the few times I do. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Nicola is very happy to put her oar in on all manner of stuff, which lies outside her remit. So the fact she is keeping silent on such a fundamental issue should be taken as a sign that all the stuff she sprouts about principles and so is nothing more than a pile of horse sh1t.Black_Rook said:
Far be it from me to leap to her defence, but we shouldn't expect statements from Nicola Sturgeon about this fiasco. The Scottish Government (and, for that matter, the Welsh one too, which as been forgotten in the pile on like it usually is) has no responsibility in this area.MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I'm sure she's watching the whole fiasco unfold with a degree of trepidation, however, and hoping that the EU doesn't do anything even more stupid over the next few weeks. A radical deterioration in UK-EU relations would be a disaster for her.
One of the benefits about (nearly) all of us agreeing that the European Commission have been acting like total dicks is that we are not, for a change, arguing the toss over Scotland. Now, far be it from me to tell anybody else what to do, but from a purely personal point of view I shall be trying to avoid metaphorically beating the First Minister around the head with a copy of the Northern Ireland protocol tonight.0 -
Also isn't there a question about the amount of subsidisation that the UK has put into the development in the UK?tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/13552278581180784670 -
DougSeal said:
I can sport a statistical flaw in that plan...theoldpolitics said:If the Leave.EU people are as tactically smart as they used to be, there will soon be a very prominent counter appearing which tallies how many people are alive today who would be dead if we had stayed in the EU and been tied to their failed vaccine procurement. Not that hard to calculate and only going to go in one direction unless something very surprising happens.
The number will go to 0 in about 50 years?DougSeal said:
I can sport a statistical flaw in that plan...theoldpolitics said:If the Leave.EU people are as tactically smart as they used to be, there will soon be a very prominent counter appearing which tallies how many people are alive today who would be dead if we had stayed in the EU and been tied to their failed vaccine procurement. Not that hard to calculate and only going to go in one direction unless something very surprising happens.
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This has been so damaging to the reputation of the EU, and so good for Boris, Brexit and the cause of Unionism in the UK, I can only assume Cummings wargamed this months ago and went deep state within the EU back in November.
Boy, that guy is good.7 -
If you work at the EU Commission and have no idea about NI, you shouldn't be doing anything more than making the teas.CarlottaVance said:Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=202 -
You certainly don't, old chap but you do need to grow a stiff upper lip and stop being so sensitive when anyone writes anything about Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't 'need' to do either thing, sport.MrEd said:
As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.0 -
Yep. It's been less than a month and one side has already breached international law. And it isn't the UK.CarlottaVance said:Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=203 -
Whatever we're paying von der Leyen to bring down the EU from within, it's not enough!Casino_Royale said:This has been so damaging to the reputation of the EU, and so good for Boris, Brexit and the cause of Unionism in the UK, I can only assume Cummings wargamed this months ago and went deep state within the EU back in November.
Boy, that guy is good.4 -
I'm wondering whether the step back is just from the Article 16 or whether it augurs a reset of the whole spat with AZ.Yokes said:Who exactly is driving this reactionary approach on the EU side? My gut is that its the German and French governments as much as the EU commission.
Things like this are seen as a problem for the European project and I'm wondering if that is causing the pushing of every red button on the console.
Imagine a situation where the Pfizer stuff gets stopped dead for a bit, people left without their 2nd dose. Really a very bad look.
1 -
Bollocks. The EU have spent over four years banging on about the island of Ireland. They should all know about it.CarlottaVance said:Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=204 -
We'll be back to Boris messes soon, I have little doubt. But in a week with a grim milestone, politically he's had some good times in this matter.Casino_Royale said:This has been so damaging to the reputation of the EU, and so good for Boris, Brexit and the cause of Unionism in the UK, I can only assume Cummings wargamed this months ago and went deep state within the EU back in November.
Boy, that guy is good.0 -
Of course it's done serious damage. The EU tried waving the biggest stick it could find.. and lost. It will now be forced into a humiliating climbdown.Leon said:
I think this ridiculous week has done long term, and rather serious damage to the EU. Never again will some stupid Remainer be allowed to loftily pontificate that "the EU is a serious, clever, law-abiding organisation, which would never stoop so low as to" [insert usual pompous drivel here]Fenman said:
Is this crisis really about the UK and Eire? How are the back of the queue East European nations going to take this? Could this eventually lead to other leavers? Hungary isn't the only unhappy one and Putin will devote effort and resources to help stir more troubles for the EU.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Plenty on evidence on here they are changing rapidlyFoxy said:
One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.RobD said:
That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.Foxy said:
Likely to be surprisingly close. Rejoin on 48% before the campaign starts...rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1355171670688980993?s=19
The EU has revealed itself, in the depths of a terrible crisis, to be the blundering, monolithic, dithering, anti-democratic, designed-to-be-mediocre theatre of political clownng (however nobly intentioned) that Brexiteers always claimed. This is a wet dream for the likes of Bill Cash and John Redwood (and one they don't deserve: they are idiots, too)
This week will never be forgotten. Once you lose the "moral high ground" it is very hard to regain.
The worst thing is for the whole world to see you're just a paper tiger.3 -
Just today, President Macron said, at a rally in Orleans, thatalex_ said:RE:AZ vaccine. Has anyone seen the subsample for 41-42 year olds? I'm concerned it might not show enough evidence of effectiveness?
"la preuve est que le vaccin anglais n'a presque aucun effet sur les tailleurs de silex de gode artisanaux"
Which I have to say, as an expert French speaker, did leave me somewhat disquieted1 -
Funny, she never seems short of an opinion or three on such matters.Carnyx said:
Sounds fair enough to me. Also the PBers in question would be the first to complain when they see her interacting with (other) Europeans, or even just opining on furrin policy. They were IIRC rather too ready to believe Carmichael A. on the same general topic (the resulting court judgement is one of the minor classics of the political internet as regards LDs).Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I implied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.1 -
In Bozo's case, a photo-op discussion.kle4 said:
For my sanity, diplomats, open a thesaurus and find a new word for 'constructive'.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Well now Seamus and Jezza are out of the loop.......Yokes said:
Its amazing how a supranational and essentially undemocratic body can invoke such unquestioning justification attempts. There is less fervour for the old Soviet Union ffs.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/13552278581180784670 -
And it only took several hours and a phone call from the PM of Ireland to sort out, so no big deal.RobD said:
To be fair it was someone inadvertently triggering Article 16 without knowing what it meant. Which is perfectly fine.Philip_Thompson said:
No, they've turned positively Trumpian and tonight was like Trump going so far even Fox had to disown him.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
Tonight they went so far off the reservation that without provocation, consultation or discussion with Ireland they tore up the Good Friday Agreement . . .
It does make me worry what national stories we're missing because of this story - I know people sent home from work because of things stuck in the ports, and I've no idea if things are improving there at all.0 -
I actually don't have a problem with Nicola sticking her oar in, she is a politician and she is doing what she thinks is best for her and her cause, and does it bloody damn well. Full marks to her because, as a politician, she stands high and shoulders above the rest. But, as others have said, I am waiting to see the mental gymnastics she pulls out on this one to say whether she still thinks Scotland has a glorious future as part of the EU as an independent nation when this sort of stuff is happening and Ireland has essentially been ridden over roughshod.Black_Rook said:
It might be argued thus. OTOH, insisting that the woman shouldn't stick her oar in where it don't belong one day, then demanding that she do it the next, is almost as great an act of contortion as that performed by the dumb idiot from Twitter posted downthread, who used the EU's vaccine mafia tactics as an argument for why it was a mistake to leave the EU.MrEd said:
I'll have to disagree with you there @Black_Rook which is one of the few times I do. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Nicola is very happy to put her oar in on all manner of stuff, which lies outside her remit. So the fact she is keeping silent on such a fundamental issue should be taken as a sign that all the stuff she sprouts about principles and so is nothing more than a pile of horse sh1t.Black_Rook said:
Far be it from me to leap to her defence, but we shouldn't expect statements from Nicola Sturgeon about this fiasco. The Scottish Government (and, for that matter, the Welsh one too, which as been forgotten in the pile on like it usually is) has no responsibility in this area.MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I'm sure she's watching the whole fiasco unfold with a degree of trepidation, however, and hoping that the EU doesn't do anything even more stupid over the next few weeks. A radical deterioration in UK-EU relations would be a disaster for her.
One of the benefits about (nearly) all of us agreeing that the European Commission have been acting like total dicks is that we are not, for a change, arguing the toss over Scotland. Now, far be it from me to tell anybody else what to do, but from a purely personal point of view I shall be trying to avoid metaphorically beating the First Minister around the head with a copy of the Northern Ireland protocol tonight.0 -
it was till it was inconvenient for the euCharles said:
Surprised no one had commented on the suspension of the NI border. I thought that was sacrosanctFrancisUrquhart said:Now all that moaning about one clause in the Internal Market Bill, that if the EU starting being twats we could do something about it and we were all told that it is totally illegal in international law and the EU would never behave like that.
1 -
Well i suspect that the triggering of Article 16 was done because they realised that the vaccine controls would be completely ineffective without it. So revoking Article 16 will require a rethink anyway. Which is good news for almost everyone - including ultimately i think the most of the citizens of the EU. If it leads to a moving away from the confrontational approach and one that means moving towards problem solving and searching for solutions. Everyone is ultimately on the same side. Bad for some politicians in the short term.AnneJGP said:
I'm wondering whether the step back is just from the Article 16 or whether it augurs a reset of the whole spat with AZ.Yokes said:Who exactly is driving this reactionary approach on the EU side? My gut is that its the German and French governments as much as the EU commission.
Things like this are seen as a problem for the European project and I'm wondering if that is causing the pushing of every red button on the console.
Imagine a situation where the Pfizer stuff gets stopped dead for a bit, people left without their 2nd dose. Really a very bad look.0 -
-
Remind me when this all started?Floater said:1 -
Can't wait to see what you have lined up for us tomorrow....TrèsDifficile said:I'm getting a bit worried about the power of my words. Last night I was strongly advocating that the UK include Ireland in its vaccination rollout. This morning I was suggesting that EU leadership was appearing somewhat Trumpian. Both ideas seem to have rather taken off over the following 24 hours.
1 -
You're great on what I need to do.MrEd said:
You certainly don't, old chap but you do need to grow a stiff upper lip and stop being so sensitive when anyone writes anything about Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't 'need' to do either thing, sport.MrEd said:
As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.
I think I'll add pompous pricks attempting to school other posters on what they need to do (you need to step away from the computer, stop this, grow that, stop posting tweets etc) to my list of forum sins.0 -
Is this going to descend into EU all pointing fingers at one another via anonymous briefings?Floater said:1 -
Remainiac still fits the bill.tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1355227858118078467
I said last night that that word I've been using for hmm 5 years now has finally been properly defined. Anyone backing the EU's actions over AZ is undoubtedly a Remainiac.
I've been surprised by some of those who have escaped that moniker. WilliamGlen has been criticising the EU like the most ardent leavers. MysticRose has almost gone Tory. SouthamObserver has been furious at the EU. ScottPammer has even tweeted non pro EU stuff. Obvs not a comprehensive list so sorry to prominent EUphiles showing sanity that I've missed.
The Remainiac remaining exceptions are obvious. I think we have to include Mr Meeks in that until he breaks his unusual silence.2 -
Didn't say she wasn't - only that she's not allowed to in the views of some.Luckyguy1983 said:
Funny, she never seems short of an opinion or three on such matters.Carnyx said:
Sounds fair enough to me. Also the PBers in question would be the first to complain when they see her interacting with (other) Europeans, or even just opining on furrin policy. They were IIRC rather too ready to believe Carmichael A. on the same general topic (the resulting court judgement is one of the minor classics of the political internet as regards LDs).Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I implied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
0 -
Anyone with the power to trigger the protocol absolutely should and no doubt does. And someone's name must be on that authorisation.tlg86 said:
Bollocks. The EU have spent over four years banging on about the island of Ireland. They should all know about it.CarlottaVance said:Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=20
Admitting stupidity is the politician's last line of defence. Claiming oversights here is the institutional equivalent. It's not in the least bit plausible that it is a satisfactory explanation, as it raises a whole bunch of other questions, but it provides an out, which those affected like the Irish PM can pretend to accept.
But there's still that issue of who said 'do it', and why that was all that was needed.
Have a pleasant night everyone - hopefully this is the point the EU stopped trying to pick a fight and started rolling back. With any luck AZ can rustle up some additional vaccine so they can save face and back down.0 -
Something new, or is this old news re Salmond and Sturgeon?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-558632640 -
EU Health Commissioner: "This shit ain't on me...."Floater said:
Does the EU have an equivalent of Article 25?0 -
The bbc is slightly less objective than the guardian from which they get most of their views then take it further . Abolish the lot of themkinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
0 -
Right on time, chucked under the bus.williamglenn said:0 -
I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.
The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.
I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.
Oh well, I'll work it out.3 -
-
What is the actual process for triggering Article 16?
Can the Berlaymont junior press officer just phone a few journos and say it's done or does someone have to sign an order or get the commission to vote for it?0 -
Dunno - not obvious to me either way.dr_spyn said:Something new, or is this old news re Salmond and Sturgeon?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-558632640 -
It is amusing that you go to some of the obvious candidates on twitter and you find commenters who genuinely seem to believe that the EU didn't trigger Article 16 today and have taken as absolute gospel that the media jumped the gun in suggesting that they did. All because they implicitly believe the ridiculous excuses that have been used to row back.TrèsDifficile said:
Remainiac still fits the bill.tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1355227858118078467
I said last night that that word I've been using for hmm 5 years now has finally been properly defined. Anyone backing the EU's actions over AZ is undoubtedly a Remainiac.
I've been surprised by some of those who have escaped that moniker. WilliamGlen has been criticising the EU like the most ardent leavers. MysticRose has almost gone Tory. SouthamObserver has been furious at the EU. ScottPammer has even tweeted non pro EU stuff. Obvs not a comprehensive list so sorry to prominent EUphiles showing sanity that I've missed.
The Remainiac remaining exceptions are obvious. I think we have to include Mr Meeks in that until he breaks his unusual silence.2 -
You mean abolish all the non right-wing outlets? Just checking.Pagan2 said:
The bbc is slightly less objective than the guardian from which they get most of their views then take it further . Abolish the lot of themkinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
0 -
I made a firm prediction at the beginning of this thread that the poll it's based on will prove to been done at the time of peak remain. I'm rather more confident in that assertion already.MarqueeMark said:
Can't wait to see what you have lined up for us tomorrow....TrèsDifficile said:I'm getting a bit worried about the power of my words. Last night I was strongly advocating that the UK include Ireland in its vaccination rollout. This morning I was suggesting that EU leadership was appearing somewhat Trumpian. Both ideas seem to have rather taken off over the following 24 hours.
2 -
I think you've got to remember that a strong strand of the assumed "Remainer" group was always far more anti-Johnson than pro-EU.TrèsDifficile said:
Remainiac still fits the bill.tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1355227858118078467
I said last night that that word I've been using for hmm 5 years now has finally been properly defined. Anyone backing the EU's actions over AZ is undoubtedly a Remainiac.
I've been surprised by some of those who have escaped that moniker. WilliamGlen has been criticising the EU like the most ardent leavers. MysticRose has almost gone Tory. SouthamObserver has been furious at the EU. ScottPammer has even tweeted non pro EU stuff. Obvs not a comprehensive list so sorry to prominent EUphiles showing sanity that I've missed.
The Remainiac remaining exceptions are obvious. I think we have to include Mr Meeks in that until he breaks his unusual silence.0 -
In a clear, albeit backhanded way, the AZN-EU crisis has demonstrated the feasibility of Leon's theory, that Northern Ireland was in the catbird seat post-Brexit with respect to UK, ROI and EU . . . and also USA.
Note that Eamon de Valera (of all people) was in favor of maintaining some legal, fundamental, constitutional link between Ireland and the United Kingdom. As a means of working together on matters of common interest AND also to facilitate a United Ireland eventually and peacefully. Which is why he did NOT move to turn the Free State - a republic in all but name - into an actual republic; THAT happened when Dev was in opposition.2 -
#DefundtheEU
Oh, we already have.1 -
You absolutely do what you want, you give a good verbal jousting. And no that is not my permission to do what you want, you don't need that.Theuniondivvie said:
You're great on what I need to do.MrEd said:
You certainly don't, old chap but you do need to grow a stiff upper lip and stop being so sensitive when anyone writes anything about Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't 'need' to do either thing, sport.MrEd said:
As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.
I think I'll add pompous pricks attempting to school other posters on what they need to do (you need to step away from the computer, stop this, grow that, stop posting tweets etc) to my list of forum sins.
But you do remember chiding others for what they chose to post about re other posters literally less than an hour ago? Was that not, in effect, attempting to school others by criticising how they choose to post?
We're all sinners here.
Good night.1 -
Suzie Boniface on Sky paper review should make for interesting viewing.0
-
You forgot that it was totally the uks fault for not bending the knee and giving in to spurious demandsPhilip_Thompson said:
No, they've turned positively Trumpian and tonight was like Trump going so far even Fox had to disown him.kinabalu said:
Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.MrEd said:
I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.FrancisUrquhart said:
You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.Andy_JS said:It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.
Tonight they went so far off the reservation that without provocation, consultation or discussion with Ireland they tore up the Good Friday Agreement . . .1 -
So, today's summary:
*European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
*European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
*President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
*European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
*European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain
Is there anything I've missed?6 -
You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:rcs1000 said:I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.
The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.
I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.
Oh well, I'll work it out.
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=201 -
Whatever the legalities behind triggering A16, informing Ireland would be a starting point internally you'd think.Benpointer said:What is the actual process for triggering Article 16?
Can the Berlaymont junior press officer just phone a few journos and say it's done or does someone have to sign an order or get the commission to vote for it?1 -
I saw people replying to BBC story saying "VDL claims contract guarantees delivery of vaccines" with "what do you mean claims?! Of course she knows what's in the contract, she's got it there in front of her". Even after we'd seen the contract.alex_ said:
It is amusing that you go to some of the obvious candidates on twitter and you find commenters who genuinely seem to believe that the EU didn't trigger Article 16 today and have taken as absolute gospel that the media jumped the gun in suggesting that they did. All because they implicitly believe the ridiculous excuses that have been used to row back.TrèsDifficile said:
Remainiac still fits the bill.tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1355227858118078467
I said last night that that word I've been using for hmm 5 years now has finally been properly defined. Anyone backing the EU's actions over AZ is undoubtedly a Remainiac.
I've been surprised by some of those who have escaped that moniker. WilliamGlen has been criticising the EU like the most ardent leavers. MysticRose has almost gone Tory. SouthamObserver has been furious at the EU. ScottPammer has even tweeted non pro EU stuff. Obvs not a comprehensive list so sorry to prominent EUphiles showing sanity that I've missed.
The Remainiac remaining exceptions are obvious. I think we have to include Mr Meeks in that until he breaks his unusual silence.0 -
Don't worry, the one you were destined to get has been diverted to Europe.Leon said:
Just today, President Macron said, at a rally in Orleans, thatalex_ said:RE:AZ vaccine. Has anyone seen the subsample for 41-42 year olds? I'm concerned it might not show enough evidence of effectiveness?
"la preuve est que le vaccin anglais n'a presque aucun effet sur les tailleurs de silex de gode artisanaux"
Which I have to say, as an expert French speaker, did leave me somewhat disquieted0 -
1
-
He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.Leon said:
You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:rcs1000 said:I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.
The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.
I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.
Oh well, I'll work it out.
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=204 -
Genuine LOL momentCasino_Royale said:0 -
Thank you for your continuing if slightly weird interest.kle4 said:
You absolutely do what you want, you give a good verbal jousting. And no that is not my permission to do what you want, you don't need that.Theuniondivvie said:
You're great on what I need to do.MrEd said:
You certainly don't, old chap but you do need to grow a stiff upper lip and stop being so sensitive when anyone writes anything about Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't 'need' to do either thing, sport.MrEd said:
As I said previously, Nicola opines on everything including many things that are outside her remit. Which is fair enough, But you then can't crying "it's not fair" when people ask why she isn't giving her opinion on this. Especially when she's been proclaiming that Scotland has a bright future outside the UK and within the EU. Given the EU has just ridden roughshod over Ireland - which is a close peer to Scotland in terms of its relative weighting within any EU bloc - you might think she would like to tell people in Scotland if / how this action changes her view about how Scotland would fare in any future membership as a standalone nation within the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Unless certain posters on here what?MrEd said:
Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....Theuniondivvie said:
The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?MrEd said:Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.
I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I rimplied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
PS you don't need to pay attention to my posts but you do need to stop posting facetious comments without knowing the facts.
I think I'll add pompous pricks attempting to school other posters on what they need to do (you need to step away from the computer, stop this, grow that, stop posting tweets etc) to my list of forum sins.
But you do remember chiding others for what they chose to post about re other posters literally less than an hour ago? Was that not, in effect, attempting to school others by criticising how they choose to post?
We're all sinners here.
Good night.0 -
Some European elected officials claim the UK is starting a vaccine war...Black_Rook said:So, today's summary:
*European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
*European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
*President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
*European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
*European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain
Is there anything I've missed?2 -
I think that's why remainiacs (used advisedly) are the only people in Europe praising the EU right now.alex_ said:
I think you've got to remember that a strong strand of the assumed "Remainer" group was always far more anti-Johnson than pro-EU.TrèsDifficile said:
Remainiac still fits the bill.tlg86 said:
Apologist. The only word to describe him.Andy_JS said:Mental gymnastics.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1355227858118078467
I said last night that that word I've been using for hmm 5 years now has finally been properly defined. Anyone backing the EU's actions over AZ is undoubtedly a Remainiac.
I've been surprised by some of those who have escaped that moniker. WilliamGlen has been criticising the EU like the most ardent leavers. MysticRose has almost gone Tory. SouthamObserver has been furious at the EU. ScottPammer has even tweeted non pro EU stuff. Obvs not a comprehensive list so sorry to prominent EUphiles showing sanity that I've missed.
The Remainiac remaining exceptions are obvious. I think we have to include Mr Meeks in that until he breaks his unusual silence.1 -
Never the EU's fault...never....if we had only not Brexit'ed.tlg86 said:Can someone decode this for me?
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/13552333820457984021 -
Good question, hopefully someone knows, but the BBC story on this earlier quoted what they said was a regulation which invoked it, and quoted it as saying the invocation 'was' justified, not that it would be.Benpointer said:What is the actual process for triggering Article 16?
Can the Berlaymont junior press officer just phone a few journos and say it's done or does someone have to sign an order or get the commission to vote for it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-558644420 -
Totally no Az don't need to save face....the commision are the bad guys herekle4 said:
Anyone with the power to trigger the protocol absolutely should and no doubt does. And someone's name must be on that authorisation.tlg86 said:
Bollocks. The EU have spent over four years banging on about the island of Ireland. They should all know about it.CarlottaVance said:Trying to brush it under the carpet:
https://twitter.com/RaoulRuparel/status/1355278521208336384?s=20
Admitting stupidity is the politician's last line of defence. Claiming oversights here is the institutional equivalent. It's not in the least bit plausible that it is a satisfactory explanation, as it raises a whole bunch of other questions, but it provides an out, which those affected like the Irish PM can pretend to accept.
But there's still that issue of who said 'do it', and why that was all that was needed.
Have a pleasant night everyone - hopefully this is the point the EU stopped trying to pick a fight and started rolling back. With any luck AZ can rustle up some additional vaccine so they can save face and back down.0
This discussion has been closed.