Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Dramatic scenes in Washington as Trump supporters try to stop Congress approving Biden’s victory – p

12346

Comments

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited January 6
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw an alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders like that.
    We have been over it, and it is always overblown. Attempts to link Boris to Trump get overdone and make it very easy for Boris supporters to dismiss actually relevant criticisms of him.
    No, I don't buy that all. The extensive, exceptional links through individuals are real.
  • It's a bit late for Twitter to shit the bed - they let him spew garbage unchecked for years.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,450
    guybrush said:

    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Before we Brits get too smug, let us recall that over the last four years a large proportion of our political class, and millions of our fellow citizens, have done their very best to get the biggest vote in British history - 17.4m voting for Leave - to to be simply ignored. They wanted that vote to dismissed before it was ever enacted, and a new referendum imposed, to override that vote.

    It was a gentle attempt at a Very Quiet British Coup.

    Moreover, one of our major political parties, the Lib Dems, went even further, and demanded a simple "Revoke". Simply: Cancel Democracy. Ignore the entire 17.4 million stupid voters, tell them their vote means nothing so there is no point in voting for anything ever again. If we don't like the way you vote, we will make sure your vote means nothing.

    What we are witnessing now, tragically, in Washington, is a lesson for us here in Britain. Respect a vote. Respect the people. Respect democracy.

    If Brexit had been annulled, as so many wanted (even on this site) we might not have escaped these awful scenes.

    If Lib Dems had won an overall majority in 2019 it would have been, mathematically, because a huge number of the people who had voted for Brexit had changed their minds and were exercising democratic right to do so. There is no comparison.
    There really is a direct comparison. The only difference is that Brits don't carry guns and are - generally (cf Jo Cox RIP) - too polite/apathetic to experiment in political violence, and we don't have that terrible history of slavery which poisons everything with questions (often justified) of race.

    Brexit was a revolution, but it WAS democratic. The prime minister explicitly told us that Whatever we decided, Parliament would enact. This promise cannot be simply ignored. Nor can the choice of the people be glibly "Revoked". Doing so is not just immoral; it is dangerous. As we see.
    FFS - it's even more simple than that. The LIbDems offered people a choice to change their minds, they rejected it. No comparison at all.
    There’s plenty to say about the staggering scenes coming out of the US. We have seen their Parliament stormed and trashed by armed protestors, and we as good as saw an innocent woman shot before our eyes. You might comment on the implications for Trump personally, for the Republican Party, for American politics, even for democracy and America’s standing around the world. You might search for betting opportunities or speculate on how it might affect the markets.

    There is every chance that some future generation of American school-kids might one day be writing exam essays about it.

    We can be reasonably confident that when the history books come to be written, no-one is going to be drawing a parallel with Jo Swinson’s election campaign.

    Our resident fool has simply demonstrated why he is so regarded.
    Great post. Drawing a direct comparison between an armed coup and the Lib Dems... well, where to start...
    Aberdeenshire Lib Dems did approve Trump's golf course.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280

    That Trump statement was amazing. I HAD MY LANDSLIDE STOLEN. I FEEL YOUR PAIN. YOU LOVE ME. please go home.

    Disgusting and arguably criminal.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    Do try not to be a dick - hard as it is for you I'm sure
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    I find myself genuinely surprised at how terrible that was.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,193

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    We will find out in 18 months time that Russia, China and Iran were fuelling this online and on the darkweb behind the scenes - possibly paying some of the key players off too.

    Of course. We in the west are being expertly manipulated by mainly Russian but some Chinese bots on social media, fomenting this disorder

    We need to regulate the internet. Sadly. Absolute free speech does not work in the age of social media, which can be faked and stoked.

    I say this with great regret. Free speech was the greatest achievement of the Enlightenment. But what is the alternative?
    Stop working so hard to miss the point.

    It's Trump.
    Yes, Trump's the immediate trigger. We all know that. We all agree.

    And? Do you not think there's a deeper cultural malaise here? The causes? The underlying fissures? The ructions?

    That's what we're exploring here. It's what we do on this site.
    Hurrah for the Blackshirts say the fellow travellers.
    Oh, calm yourself, you big girl's blouse.

    It's also worth remembering that societies born of revolution are ALWAYS more violent, thereafter, than countries that "peacefully" evolve.

    France and America are both formed by Revolutions that gave them their birth. In France, they have the gilets jaune, and a long history of quite violent opposition to, and suspicion of, government. Their national day is Bastille Day, when they literally celebrate the violent, bloody overthrowing of the government. This infuses their DNA. It explains much of the French political character and their tendency to very extravagant protest.

    France wasn't "born" in 1789! I would say Joan of Arc helped found the modern country we call France (yes, that long ago).
    Hmmmmm - there would be many, many French people who would argue that modern France is indeed built on the foundation of 1789. Joan of Arc is part of Medieval France - which 1789 was supposed to be a rejection of.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Absolutely not true. Macron buttered him up even more.

    But behind his back they were laughing at him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxtdCeg7VPE

    Stop being delusional. Trump is off the deep end in a world of his own. No western European country's leader supports him. But they have had to work with him.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,269
    kjh said:

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    'Hard left bed wetters'. Who the hell on here is 'hard left'?
    LOL loads of the posters!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039

    IshmaelZ said:
    Clearly the more astute section of what remains in the White House are shitting bricks time, which is why Trumpsky has issued this typically lying tweet.
    Implausible denial.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    What about Extinction Rebellion?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526
    edited January 6

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    [deleted]
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    Were Fathers for Justice right wing? Tricky one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    Huh, my memory was it was anti-hunters, funny how the brain works, inherent prejudices probably.
  • TresTres Posts: 595
    2021 - 'hold my beer'
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    That Trump statement was the like the one you would give before climbing into Marine One being evacuated from the capital as it is overrun by Zombies
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,694
    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Gaussian said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Trump declares martial law by end of today?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/04/leave-military-out-of-it-former-defence-secretaries-tell-trump

    Turn out to have known what they were talking about. Bit of a worry that half the military votes Trump.
    Even more of a worry that half the country votes Trump.
    Indeed. And America is polarising FURTHER not less, and it is clearly polarising on racial lines.

    These disgraceful scenes are, to an extent, the payback for all the more extreme BLM marches pulling down statues of Lincoln etc.

    The cops should have stopped those riots, just as they have to stop this utter sadness
    Pelosi was saying only the other days that statues should be pulled out of the US Capitol, thus pouring fuel on the fire and fanning their deepest fears.

    Both sides are a disgrace.
    Even if that is so, things, particularly at this moment, are not equally disgraceful.

    Don't US cops have tasers, truncheons and mild tear gas?

    That would seem appropriate here. Not jumping straight to handguns and shooting.

    You'd think if they were good at anything it would be beating people up, but they seemed totally off guard.

    I get your point @kle4 but @Casino_Royale also has a good point. Both sides have fuelled this for their own ends - Trump with this rhetoric and the Democrats claiming that Trump was an illegitimate President for the past 4 years.

    I also suspect that there might not be much sympathy for politicians fleeing the Capitol when many of those same politicians were perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to cities being torched and many small businesses being looted with the Police doing sweet FA
    The atmosphere of extremism may have been fuelled by both sides, but where I fundamentally disagree is the insinuation, therefore, that this very much not inevitable event can be suggested to be the fault of those other Trump and his cohorts.

    People are responsible for their own actions, and to a degree actions they incite and encourage. Any indirect factoring arising from leftish political escalation on other matters is pretty irrelevant to the very direct incitement and encourgement by Trump and co today, and feels like an unnecessary distraction.

    I don't think it should be controversial to suggest that even in a febrile atmosphere that many will have contibuted to, the focus should be on those directing and encouraging the ongoing criminal activity, and that such a focus does not mean an endorsement of past criminal acts by others.
    The thing is, now and for the past four years, both sides have sought the same thing, namely to nullify the results which had the other side winning. The way they have gone about that reflects where they have their strengths and where they feel comfortable. For the Democrats, it was constantly seeding exposes and stories in the NYT, WP and others about Putin getting Trump elected etc etc and then impeachment when they won the House. Sure, it's not an armed and crazy mob storming Congress but, while it may have been done digitally and in fine rhetoric, the aim was exactly the same as the protestors here are doing - delegitimise am elected President and force him out of office by whichever means possible, regardless of whether the claims were true or not.

    Even if that is so, as you point it out it is not an armed and crazy mob, they used/abused the processes set out under the law and constitution of the United States. Even the bullcrap lawsuits and Senator crap ahead of today can claim that distinction.

    Trump just pushed well past that. He is not stupid enough to not know what the results of telling people what he told them and telling them to do what he did could be. Nothing anyone else did before today, however poor that behaviour was in contributing to a denigration of the political culture of the United States, has a bearing on keeping the focus on the most significant cause of the escalation.
    He's definitely fuelled it but what people on here forget a lot is that Trump is not the cause of this, he is the vehicle of the frustration. If you are happy with life, you don't go across the country for a protest to storm Congress. These people feel like normal politicians disdain them, ignore them, treat them as racist homophobic hicks and that Trump was the first politician who listened to their views. This is not going away with Trump. The idea you lock him up and then it all goes back to normal is pure fantasy.
    They should try being less racist. Then people wouldn't treat them like they are racists.
    Many of these people are ones who voted for Obama. Do you think they thought he wasn't Black?
    A tiny percentage of Trump voters voted for Obama.

    I'm not saying all Trump voters are racists but I bet you a lot of money that a huge proportion of the twats in the Capitol building right now are.
    "A tiny percentage of Trump voters voted for Obama"

    Obama won Ohio, Iowa, North Carolina, Indiana and Florida. For Trump to have won them suggests more than a "tiny" number of Obama voters switched over
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Don't forget Macron who is probably trying to forget the bromance he attempted in 2017/18 -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_U_pNR8Ej0

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43840965
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,782
    isam said:


    Floater said:
    Good Lord haha

    I saw a funny Wogan interview with the kid out of The Goonies who played Chunk earlier, and he was just like Trump! Interestingly he is a lawyer now
    The manner in which one of the IRA Army Council might have addressed ivolunteers.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447

    kjh said:

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    'Hard left bed wetters'. Who the hell on here is 'hard left'?
    LOL loads of the posters!!
    Who?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    Fox calling it for Ossoff
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,118
    edited January 6
    Leon said:

    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.

    Luckily it appears they are disorganized morons. They get to the chambers and offices, then no idea what to do other than take selfies.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    OK I'm done now I have done a full 180. That trump tweet was so poor I think he is finished. Total irrelevance awaits him
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    And then they will stay in a federal jail for the rest of their lives.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I hope that the GOP dies and the party of Lincoln comes back.

    Then tell BLM to stop tearing down statues of Lincoln. If you start a culture war, you get a culture war. This is the inevitable, awful, tragic outcome (I am not exonerating these morons in the Capitol, let alone the insane narcissist Trump)
    Spot on.

    The Foxification of the kind of the people who are in the Capitol at the moment started three decades ago. Parts, but not all of BLM, are implicated in the gradual, radical polarisation of US politics, that does span across the whole spectrum since the late 1980s and early 1990s, but that's not really it here.
    Tearing down statues of Lincoln and torching cities is insane. It strikes at the very core of the American story and identity.

    The thing is you have white liberals like @Foxy who apologise for this and suggest that any opposition to it is evidence of closet racism.

    It's that sort of madness that is fuelling the polarisation.
    No, it is whataboutery.

    And by the way, I have not accused you or any other PB poster of being a racist. I am careful not to do so.
    Um. You drew a direct equivalence between me and the Blackshirts.

    If you are happy to withdraw this I would graciously accept your apology.
    The Blackshirts I am aware of (Mussolini's and Mosley's) were first and foremost anti-communist (and anti-Russia) which I thought was your avowed position; any racism was in their spare time. I don't think the allegation you think has been made, has been made.
    Unacceptable. Apologise to Casino - and move on.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited January 6
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Don't forget Macron who is probably trying to forget the bromance he attempted in 2017/18 -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_U_pNR8Ej0

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43840965
    En Marche wasn't stuffed full of Trump contacts, though, like Vote Leave in 2016 or the Tory backroom in 2019.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767
    edited January 6

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    Who is hard left, or a bedwetter?

    There is something very micropenised, since that is the sort of insult space you seem to want to operate in, on blanket assaults on unspecified posters because (presumably) you lack confidence in your ability to take on someone specific and identifiable.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    Leon said:

    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.

    Luckily it appears they are disorganized morons. They get to the chambers and offices, then no idea what to do other than take selfies.
    Makes you wonder what they would have done if they didnt' have mobeys.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    What about Extinction Rebellion?
    Extinction Rebellion were twats who tried to bring the Tube and Docklands Light Rail to a standstill!

    Public transport, FFS!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,694

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    Yes, despite today's events it was very reassuring and that the USA may be back shortly.
    I just expect more of moderate Democrats to calm this down. Especially given they are now in charge.

    My fear is they'll misjudge it and push ahead with a "radical" programme.

    I really hope Biden can rein them in and lead them to a maturer place. And I hope the Republicans can expunge the rot of Trump too and respond to that.
    Has been overlooked but I am glad Merrick Garland is Biden's AG pick. I really worried he would go with someone like Andrew Cuomo.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 52
    Biden gives a passionate, heartfelt speech about the threat to democracy and America, urges people to be peaceful, attempts to build bridges.
    Trump whines that the election was stolen from him and as an afterthought suggests protestors go home.

    The comparison is - well, there is no comparison
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    I guess the inauguration wont be taking place in public on the steps of the Capitol this year.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,979

    One of the most terrifying things I have ever witnessed - sedition and terrorism in the capital of the western world, fuelled and ignited by Trump, Fox News, and the insane mob that passes for a political party and movement in the US.
    Thankfully it looks as if this is being taken down and taken apart as we watch, and without more a a handful of injuries. But the damage to American democracy could last a long time.
    What happens now?
    Will those Republican Senators and Representatives who earlier objected to the vote certification ceremony now take a long hard look at themselves and their actions, and withdraw their objections?
    Will those other Republicans - including, my god, Mitch McConnell - who supported the peaceful transition of power be able to sit next to Cruz, Hawley, Gosar and the rest, and either stay in the Republican Party with them, or let them stay in the GOP?
    Will anybody be subject to arrest, court proceedings, or anything else for the disgusting actions we've witnessed today?
    Will reasonable Republican voters look at what they've seen and realise they've been had, they've been misled, they've been manipulated?
    Let's hope something good comes out of this. Because at the moment it all looks nothing but awful.

    Great post. Earlier today I thought it was too late for McConnell to switch to try and kick out the MAGAs, as the MAGA's had gotten too strong. I think this changes it bigly. Still a long fight to kick them out but more likely than not, the McConnell wing can win now. To be clear, the McConnell wing are in no sense moderates, but they are not typical MAGA's either.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    'If we go home, the gubbermint will steal the election from us and impose a communist dictator. Listen to the REAL President. Even now he is clear that he won by a landslide! This is an outrage!!!"

    It's only whataboutery if you're excusing it by reference to something that happened elsewhere.

    I was neither excusing it or apologising for it. In fact, I joined in condemning it
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 1,269
    IshmaelZ said:

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    Who is hard left, or a bedwetter?

    There is something very micropenised, since that is the sort of insult space you seem to want to operate in, on blanket assaults on unspecified posters because (presumably) you lack confidence in your ability to take on someone specific and identifiable.
    Intelligent input darling
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    Leon said:

    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.

    As an attempt to protect democracy it’s even more so. Why the hell have they not started arresting these rioters ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,769
    edited January 6
    If the Trump sedition lock-in when can the vote resume? It surely won’t be today. But when?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Entire DC National Guard on their way saying CNN.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    Alistair said:

    I find myself genuinely surprised at how terrible that was.
    You keep thinking he couldn't get any worse......
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,699
    .
    Jonathan said:

    If the Trump sedition lock-in when can the vote resume? It surely won’t be today. But when?

    Isn't the question "where"?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Alistair said:

    I find myself genuinely surprised at how terrible that was.
    'Le coup d'état, c'est moi!'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    I do feel for President Biden. A well-meaning old man who likes sniffing women's hair, in a fairly harmless way.

    How the hell is he going to reunite this country?

    His speech today, however, was good. Perhaps he has hidden strengths. Lord knows, America needs them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    Leon said:

    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.

    Luckily it appears they are disorganized morons. They get to the chambers and offices, then no idea what to do other than take selfies.
    What are the rules of a coup? Secure the police, army and the state broadcaster. Not sure they've got any of those.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,769
    RobD said:

    .

    Jonathan said:

    If the Trump sedition lock-in when can the vote resume? It surely won’t be today. But when?

    Isn't the question "where"?
    Is there a spare Congress? A state perhaps?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,874
    Just been told what is happening.

    What The Actual Fuck!!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    https://twitter.com/willfhamilton/status/1346932029598949376

    It's the biggest gathering of incels in American history.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,496
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    As coups go, this is a bit pathetic.

    Luckily it appears they are disorganized morons. They get to the chambers and offices, then no idea what to do other than take selfies.
    What are the rules of a coup? Secure the police, army and the state broadcaster. Not sure they've got any of those.
    No, but unfortunately the ringleader managed to get control of the nuclear weapons.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767

    IshmaelZ said:

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    Who is hard left, or a bedwetter?

    There is something very micropenised, since that is the sort of insult space you seem to want to operate in, on blanket assaults on unspecified posters because (presumably) you lack confidence in your ability to take on someone specific and identifiable.
    Intelligent input darling
    Yes, you were at the top of your game.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    Oh dear, C-Span is having phone-ins to fill in.....about half definitely certifiable....
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Biden is very good at judging the right words to use in these situations.

    Presidential.

    He has got it under control. As has Pence. Unlike some of the hard left bedwetters on here!
    'Hard left bed wetters'. Who the hell on here is 'hard left'?
    LOL loads of the posters!!
    Who?
    Go on @londonpubman name one. Can't be that difficult surely.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    Leon said:

    I do feel for President Biden. A well-meaning old man who likes sniffing women's hair, in a fairly harmless way.

    How the hell is he going to reunite this country?

    His speech today, however, was good. Perhaps he has hidden strengths. Lord knows, America needs them.
    In comparison to the previous guy?
    The strengths of Hercules.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    Scott_xP said:
    Terrible decision. They should ram this through today and make clear this sort of criminality doesn’t win.

    Except, today, it has.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    I guess the inauguration wont be taking place in public on the steps of the Capitol this year.

    "We'd better get back 'cause it'll be dark soon and they mostly come at night. Mostly."
  • O/T. I cannot sign in to comment on either my iPhone or iPad using Safari or Chrome on iOs. The email and password are correct (as I am commenting now using Win10 on my PC). Any ideas how to fix this?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited January 6

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Absolutely not true. Macron buttered him up even more.

    But behind his back they were laughing at him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxtdCeg7VPE

    Stop being delusional. Trump is off the deep end in a world of his own. No western European country's leader supports him. But they have had to work with him.
    It might be comforting to think, but that's simply not true, I'm afraid. There's a political and media nexus linking the birth of the Trump and Johnson administrations like no other western leaders. There are tens of individuals you could pick who have been public and unashamed parts of that link, but Bannon, Gove, Mercer and Murdoch are as useful pointers as any.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,193
    edited January 6
    tlg86 said:

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    Were Fathers for Justice right wing? Tricky one.
    Plenty of mobs, of various brands, in the UK would have liked to storm Parliament - just the police outside tend to be more professional and prepared than the Capitol Hill Police today.

    TSG would have filled that lot in, in about 5 minutes.

    As to Defund The Police - well, if they are doing have the usefulness of chocolate fireguards*, perhaps replacing them with social workers would be a good idea.

    *Not fair to chocolate fireguards. If you have them, you have chocolate. With the Capital Hill Police, you don't even have chocolate.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    'If we go home, the gubbermint will steal the election from us and impose a communist dictator. Listen to the REAL President. Even now he is clear that he won by a landslide! This is an outrage!!!"

    It's only whataboutery if you're excusing it by reference to something that happened elsewhere.

    I was neither excusing it or apologising for it. In fact, I joined in condemning it
    I didn't say you had. I was quoting an imaginary protestor
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460
    Hopefully the police can peacefully defuse the situation and then apply whatever lessons they have learned in peaceful deescalation to their future dealings with the African American community.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,460


    I always believed Trump was clinically insane.

    The absolute priority must be to remove him from the White House immediately. Peacefully if possible; if not by force.

    He is a dangerous, cornered man.

    More bad than mad, I think.

    I would judge him fit to stand trial.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,193

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    What about Extinction Rebellion?
    Extinction Rebellion were twats who tried to bring the Tube and Docklands Light Rail to a standstill!

    Public transport, FFS!
    And then got filled in by members of the public.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I hope that the GOP dies and the party of Lincoln comes back.

    Then tell BLM to stop tearing down statues of Lincoln. If you start a culture war, you get a culture war. This is the inevitable, awful, tragic outcome (I am not exonerating these morons in the Capitol, let alone the insane narcissist Trump)
    Spot on.

    The Foxification of the kind of the people who are in the Capitol at the moment started three decades ago. Parts, but not all of BLM, are implicated in the gradual, radical polarisation of US politics, that does span across the whole spectrum since the late 1980s and early 1990s, but that's not really it here.
    Tearing down statues of Lincoln and torching cities is insane. It strikes at the very core of the American story and identity.

    The thing is you have white liberals like @Foxy who apologise for this and suggest that any opposition to it is evidence of closet racism.

    It's that sort of madness that is fuelling the polarisation.
    No, it is whataboutery.

    And by the way, I have not accused you or any other PB poster of being a racist. I am careful not to do so.
    Um. You drew a direct equivalence between me and the Blackshirts.

    If you are happy to withdraw this I would graciously accept your apology.
    The Blackshirts I am aware of (Mussolini's and Mosley's) were first and foremost anti-communist (and anti-Russia) which I thought was your avowed position; any racism was in their spare time. I don't think the allegation you think has been made, has been made.
    Unacceptable. Apologise to Casino - and move on.
    Thanks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    Biden gives a passionate, heartfelt speech about the threat to democracy and America, urges people to be peaceful, attempts to build bridges.
    Trump whines that the election was stolen from him and as an afterthought suggests protestors go home.

    The comparison is - well, there is no comparison

    I don't think you will find a single commenter on here who will defend Trump, or who will deny that he is a demented narcissistic twat, and a menace to American democracy, and therefore the security of the western world.

    Biden is (today's speech notwithstanding) a rather unimpressive candidate, but no one on PB - as far as I can see - is now defending let alone promoting the cause of Donald Trump.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    What about Extinction Rebellion?
    Extinction Rebellion were twats who tried to bring the Tube and Docklands Light Rail to a standstill!

    Public transport, FFS!
    I know! Animals!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    Scott_xP said:
    You bloody idiot. Boris Tweeted earlier expressing his horror at what is happening in DC, while you were posting a Tweet about a bus.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,699
    Seems like less of a concern at the moment.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,263
    They broke the mould before they made trump.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Gaussian said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Trump declares martial law by end of today?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/04/leave-military-out-of-it-former-defence-secretaries-tell-trump

    Turn out to have known what they were talking about. Bit of a worry that half the military votes Trump.
    Even more of a worry that half the country votes Trump.
    Indeed. And America is polarising FURTHER not less, and it is clearly polarising on racial lines.

    These disgraceful scenes are, to an extent, the payback for all the more extreme BLM marches pulling down statues of Lincoln etc.

    The cops should have stopped those riots, just as they have to stop this utter sadness
    Pelosi was saying only the other days that statues should be pulled out of the US Capitol, thus pouring fuel on the fire and fanning their deepest fears.

    Both sides are a disgrace.
    Even if that is so, things, particularly at this moment, are not equally disgraceful.

    Don't US cops have tasers, truncheons and mild tear gas?

    That would seem appropriate here. Not jumping straight to handguns and shooting.

    You'd think if they were good at anything it would be beating people up, but they seemed totally off guard.

    I get your point @kle4 but @Casino_Royale also has a good point. Both sides have fuelled this for their own ends - Trump with this rhetoric and the Democrats claiming that Trump was an illegitimate President for the past 4 years.

    I also suspect that there might not be much sympathy for politicians fleeing the Capitol when many of those same politicians were perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to cities being torched and many small businesses being looted with the Police doing sweet FA
    The atmosphere of extremism may have been fuelled by both sides, but where I fundamentally disagree is the insinuation, therefore, that this very much not inevitable event can be suggested to be the fault of those other Trump and his cohorts.

    People are responsible for their own actions, and to a degree actions they incite and encourage. Any indirect factoring arising from leftish political escalation on other matters is pretty irrelevant to the very direct incitement and encourgement by Trump and co today, and feels like an unnecessary distraction.

    I don't think it should be controversial to suggest that even in a febrile atmosphere that many will have contibuted to, the focus should be on those directing and encouraging the ongoing criminal activity, and that such a focus does not mean an endorsement of past criminal acts by others.
    The thing is, now and for the past four years, both sides have sought the same thing, namely to nullify the results which had the other side winning. The way they have gone about that reflects where they have their strengths and where they feel comfortable. For the Democrats, it was constantly seeding exposes and stories in the NYT, WP and others about Putin getting Trump elected etc etc and then impeachment when they won the House. Sure, it's not an armed and crazy mob storming Congress but, while it may have been done digitally and in fine rhetoric, the aim was exactly the same as the protestors here are doing - delegitimise am elected President and force him out of office by whichever means possible, regardless of whether the claims were true or not.

    Even if that is so, as you point it out it is not an armed and crazy mob, they used/abused the processes set out under the law and constitution of the United States. Even the bullcrap lawsuits and Senator crap ahead of today can claim that distinction.

    Trump just pushed well past that. He is not stupid enough to not know what the results of telling people what he told them and telling them to do what he did could be. Nothing anyone else did before today, however poor that behaviour was in contributing to a denigration of the political culture of the United States, has a bearing on keeping the focus on the most significant cause of the escalation.
    He's definitely fuelled it but what people on here forget a lot is that Trump is not the cause of this, he is the vehicle of the frustration. If you are happy with life, you don't go across the country for a protest to storm Congress. These people feel like normal politicians disdain them, ignore them, treat them as racist homophobic hicks and that Trump was the first politician who listened to their views. This is not going away with Trump. The idea you lock him up and then it all goes back to normal is pure fantasy.
    They should try being less racist. Then people wouldn't treat them like they are racists.
    Many of these people are ones who voted for Obama. Do you think they thought he wasn't Black?
    A tiny percentage of Trump voters voted for Obama.

    I'm not saying all Trump voters are racists but I bet you a lot of money that a huge proportion of the twats in the Capitol building right now are.
    "A tiny percentage of Trump voters voted for Obama"

    Obama won Ohio, Iowa, North Carolina, Indiana and Florida. For Trump to have won them suggests more than a "tiny" number of Obama voters switched over
    Both Clinton and Biden got more votes that Obama in either 2008 or 2012 in North Carolina.

    Trump needed not a single vote switcher to win it.

    Ditto Florida.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    edited January 6

    Oh dear, C-Span is having phone-ins to fill in.....about half definitely certifiable....

    Isn't that the sort of attitude that led to this mess in the first place? I'm thinking of Hillary's deplorables comment,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972

    'If we go home, the gubbermint will steal the election from us and impose a communist dictator. Listen to the REAL President. Even now he is clear that he won by a landslide! This is an outrage!!!"

    It's only whataboutery if you're excusing it by reference to something that happened elsewhere.

    I was neither excusing it or apologising for it. In fact, I joined in condemning it
    I didn't say you had. I was quoting an imaginary protestor
    Ah, apologies. I thought I was replying to Nigel.

    Anyway, logging off now. Good evening.
  • I still think he's a pound shop Jefferson Davis.

    Jefferson Davis actually did split the country,
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    Armed insurrectionists storm the US Capitol to launch a coup. One parades a Foreign Flag through the heart of the American government. And what does the American President say to them? "We love you; you’re very special"
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 52
    Leon said:

    Biden gives a passionate, heartfelt speech about the threat to democracy and America, urges people to be peaceful, attempts to build bridges.
    Trump whines that the election was stolen from him and as an afterthought suggests protestors go home.

    The comparison is - well, there is no comparison

    I don't think you will find a single commenter on here who will defend Trump, or who will deny that he is a demented narcissistic twat, and a menace to American democracy, and therefore the security of the western world.

    Biden is (today's speech notwithstanding) a rather unimpressive candidate, but no one on PB - as far as I can see - is now defending let alone promoting the cause of Donald Trump.
    I know, I wasn't suggesting anyone was. Just making the comparison.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,013
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Terrible decision. They should ram this through today and make clear this sort of criminality doesn’t win.

    Except, today, it has.
    Unless they hold it somewhere else?

    They don't have to hold it in the Capitol - and for security reasons might choose not to.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 3,869
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Terrible decision. They should ram this through today and make clear this sort of criminality doesn’t win.

    Except, today, it has.
    They are apparently discussing carrying on from wherever they are right now, according to NBC.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 359
    As indicated multiple sources have called the race for Ossoff as his lead nears 25K and outside the 0.5% recount threshold.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    Hopefully the police can peacefully defuse the situation and then apply whatever lessons they have learned in peaceful deescalation to their future dealings with the African American community.

    Ha bloody ha!
    You are a card.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,460
    Endillion said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Terrible decision. They should ram this through today and make clear this sort of criminality doesn’t win.

    Except, today, it has.
    They are apparently discussing carrying on from wherever they are right now, according to NBC.
    Good. This fuckless rabble should be denied any kind of victory.
  • I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    What about Extinction Rebellion?
    Extinction Rebellion were twats who tried to bring the Tube and Docklands Light Rail to a standstill!

    Public transport, FFS!
    And then got filled in by members of the public.
    That was enjoyable. The Tarquins who don't need to work gluing themselves to the DLR, and meeting working class Londoners.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,775
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Terrible decision. They should ram this through today and make clear this sort of criminality doesn’t win.

    Except, today, it has.
    They probably need to do a full search before reopening.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Absolutely not true. Macron buttered him up even more.

    But behind his back they were laughing at him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxtdCeg7VPE

    Stop being delusional. Trump is off the deep end in a world of his own. No western European country's leader supports him. But they have had to work with him.
    It might be comforting to think, but that's simply not true, I'm afraid. There's a political and media nexus linking the birth of the Trump and Johnson administrations like no other western leaders. There are tens of individuals you could pick who have been public and unashamed parts of that link, but Bannon, Gove, Mercer and Murdoch are as useful pointers as any.
    You're a numpty.

    Bannon has never been a real figure in the Conservative Party, whatever fake innuendos the likes of Codswallop may try to make.

    Gove, Mercer and Murdoch are all mainstream.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,526

    kle4 said:

    A lot of world leaders buttered up the US President.
    We've been over this a few times, but very few as much aa Boris Johnson. He saw and publicly advertised a unique alliance with him, and many of his backroom staff had direct personal contacts and association's with Trump's via the Brexit referendum. There are no other world leaders in that situation, even the ones endorsed by him at more of a distance, such as Bolsonaro, Duerte, or Modi.
    Absolutely not true. Macron buttered him up even more.

    But behind his back they were laughing at him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxtdCeg7VPE

    Stop being delusional. Trump is off the deep end in a world of his own. No western European country's leader supports him. But they have had to work with him.
    It might be comforting to think, but that's simply not true, I'm afraid. There's a political and media nexus linking the birth of the Trump and Johnson administrations like no other western leaders. There are tens of individuals you could pick who have been public and unashamed parts of that link, but Bannon, Gove, Mercer and Murdoch are as useful pointers as any.
    THat photo of Mr Gove and Mr Trump is (to be a bit UK-parochial for a moment) going to be solid gold for his opponents. Mr Johnson, not so much - could be his Prime Ministerial role - but Mr Gove at Trump Towers ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    tlg86 said:

    I remember the day when a bunch of pro-hunting clowns stormed the Commons chamber.

    It always seems to be the right who do this sort of thing.

    Were Fathers for Justice right wing? Tricky one.
    Plenty of mobs, of various brands, in the UK would have liked to storm Parliament - just the police outside tend to be more professional and prepared than the Capitol Hill Police today.

    TSG would have filled that lot in, in about 5 minutes.

    As to Defund The Police - well, if they are doing have the usefulness of chocolate fireguards*, perhaps replacing them with social workers would be a good idea.

    *Not fair to chocolate fireguards. If you have them, you have chocolate. With the Capital Hill Police, you don't even have chocolate.
    They're more vanilla.
This discussion has been closed.