Trump’s desperate attempt to bully the Georgia Secretary of State shows the lengths he’ll go to hang
Comments
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I bet huge quantities of virtual money that there will be a delay in bringing in the new measures. It won't be midnight tonight.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Ha I bet all you people who said Johnson would be following Sturgeon by 5pm tonight feel pretty fucking stupid now.CarlottaVance said:0 -
That’s what Australia are doing, and it’s working. Any arrivals, from anywhere, 14 days in a dedicated hotel at your expense (or a barrack house, if you don’t want to pay).Luckyguy1983 said:
Or implement mandatory quarantine. It seems on this one, the four Governments are very much in step.CarlottaVance said:
Or require negative PCR test before leaving the airport.Sandpit said:
Indeed. No reason why ScotGov can’t close the airport itself on public health grounds, or mount checkpoints on all roads out.CarlottaVance said:
The UK government is responsible for foreign relations.Carnyx said:
You're not part of the UK.CarlottaVance said:
Hasn't stopped Guernsey. Test on arrival. Mandatory self quarantine. £10,000 fine for breaches. Test on Day 14. If you don't want to take a test, mandatory quarantine for 21 days. 8 current cases in total - all caught through "Test on arrival".Carnyx said:
Foreign travel isn't devolvedMaxPB said:Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
This is a Public Health (which is devolved to Scotland) issue.
No exceptions, no excuses.
I know people who went to the antipodes because someone died in their family, and missed the funerals because of quarantine. We need to do this, as much as I hate arguing for such draconian restrictions.1 -
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.1 -
Also, I doubt outdoor playgrounds are that popular in Scotland in January, anywayLostPassword said:
It's outdoors. Not so long close to the same people as when sat in a classroom.Richard_Tyndall said:
The strange one about Scotland is kids are still able to mix in playgrounds outside of school. If kids are now being considered a primary route of transmission between families surely this is a rather dangerous loophole?DavidL said:
Its depressingly hard to work out but in Scotland the religious exemption is gone. Travel for education is no longer possible, nor training. It's mainly schools tbh.NerysHughes said:Other than closing schools what is the difference between what NS has just annouced for Scotland compared to Tier 4 in England?
One thing that we must learn from this disaster is that attempts by politicians to fine tune restrictions and frequent changes of rules is hugely and completely counter-productive resulting in far less compliance and effectiveness. One can see the attraction, especially from the Treasury, but it is just not worth it.1 -
This is a decent candidate as one of the most remote/obscure crossings.BannedinnParis said:
I would be happy to see that list again.Anabobazina said:
From memory someone on here calculated it at 31, which includes farm tracks and the like which are navigable via car albeit very remote in some cases. Not too many all in all!algarkirk said:
Only 5 or so major roads crossing from England to Scotland but 20+ minor ones.Anabobazina said:
It's quite viable as there are surprising few border crossings.MaxPB said:Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
https://goo.gl/maps/dCzv6uxRy628xVKx80 -
She wants a competent PM to deliver a coherent message.contrarian said:What Jane really wants is Kamps and barbed wire.
Sadly we get neither0 -
Rather misses the point I was making. I gave an example, it was not supposed to be identical. I doubt there is one. No democracy is perfect and there are many different types, but to suggest we have a democracy and the EU doesn't was the point I was responding to.Richard_Tyndall said:
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."algarkirk said:
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.kjh said:
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.Leon said:
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.kjh said:
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.Philip_Thompson said:
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.kjh said:
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.MarqueeMark said:
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.kjh said:"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
We have a democracy. It isn't perfect. So does the EU. It also isn't perfect.
How is 'I have no control over who I elect not a great argument'. I am not alone in thinking FPTP is a very poor system which disenfranchises a significant number of the population.1 -
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
0 -
Biting.
Locking down and closing schools after kids have been back at school for 3 (?) days is an impressive innovation in the already ambitious pro-virus policy pursued by the government5 -
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint0 -
0
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If she wants to attract voters such as you or at least the kind of New Town and Broughty Ferry professionals who are as hard hit emotionally and practically as some of my family ... but I just don't see any point in speculating yet. I'd say (a) it depends on the nature of illegality if any - and that has not yet been tested in Scotland (remember the court cases associated with prorogation); and (b) the political situation down the line. And (like the new hotel in St James's) Brexit still hasn't worked its way out and into the pan, so to speak, so the full majesty of the steaming turd has not yet been made manifest. I don't see much point in doing one's sums until one sees how things pan out (again so to speak).DavidL said:
Do you disagree? Genuinely interested.Carnyx said:
Getting a bit logically confused there. PBTory doctrine is that Ms S won't go for an illegal referendum.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.Alistair said:
Scotland can't close the Airports.MaxPB said:Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?1 -
.
Assuming this is accurate, the cabinet had virtually all of the evidence that made this decision inevitable a week since - and the data for school age children being one of the biggest driver of household infection at least another week before that.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
Instead of having a fortnight to plan remote learning, we've spent half that time arguing about whether testing in schools is remotely practical, and the other half arguing about whether they should or shouldn't open at all in January.
1 -
Blue Monday is 18th January this year.IshmaelZ said:
There's that bogus stat that the 4th Monday in January or thereabouts is the most depressing day of the year. Even in a normal year.Leon said:.
And February...and probably March.....
Someone accused me earlier of being depressed. And I - correctly - said I wasn't. Now, I dunno.....
EDIT: I have no idea why my laptop has gone mad with its quoting. Maybe it is a secret antivaxxer0 -
I see 'Captain Hindsight' has been at it again:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/03/keir-starmer-calls-for-immediate-lockdown-in-england-as-covid-cases-soar0 -
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals.Leon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Juncker ironically was the only Spitzenkandidat after the 2014 European Parliament election results and therefore the only democratically elected European President, even if indirectly0 -
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.contrarian said:
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.0 -
Premier league and all other football stopped.?CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=200 -
We need to get well into Spring before exposing that amount of flesh.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yep. It's harder for things (including people) to move about. That's a definite benefit if you thought it was too easy before. Other benefit is gradual repatriation of fish. Then you struggle. I have a couple of outre ones of less bloated City and cheaper houses but this is a rather indirect, non-sovereigny way to achieve those.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Enjoying sovereignty in the abstract is the political equivalent of sitting around smelling your own farts. Making it harder for other Europeans to move here and making it harder for us to move to the EU is the principal effect of Brexit. If you think that's a net positive then that is your benefit. If not, there really is no practical benefit.kjh said:
Well tampon tax I will give you, but sovereignty really? I am interested in personal freedoms and I can think of a hell of a lot of things I can't do now that I could before and nothing that I can do that I couldn't before.Philip_Thompson said:
Sovereignty is the benefit.kjh said:
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.Philip_Thompson said:
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.kjh said:
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.MarqueeMark said:
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.kjh said:"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
Ah you say that is abstract, but so what? It will be for governments we elect to turn it into actual benefits and how it will turn into actual benefits will evolve over time depending upon which governments.
There is no right answer apart from sovereignty. We might elect a more liberal government than the EU - or a more authoritarian one. We might elect a more socialist government - or a more dry Conservative one.
The choice is ours. The future isn't written yet.
The first formal divergence was the abolition of the tampon tax, which was illegal under EU law. It won't be the last one.0 -
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Not when Nicola does it no.contrarian said:
But it is when Boris does.
https://twitter.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/1346102857636962316?s=202 -
I was so ahead of my time....TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
It's defacto closed but she can't actually really close it.Philip_Thompson said:
Why? Has she closed the border.Alistair said:There we go, Nicolas statement finished. In about 3 shambolic days that will be the England plan.
If not it should not be the plan.
Close the effing border Boris. Then it is your own plan. Listen to Hunt.
(I feel absolutely awful saying close the border)0 -
Why? They played in the last lockdown. They might welcome a break but they seem to have a process that works.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Premier league and all other football stopped.?CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=200 -
That 'suboptimal' is being made to work very hard there David.DavidL said:
It was really obvious as soon as it became clear how much more infectious the new variant was. The lack of obvious preparation since that time (roughly mid December) seems pretty suboptimal.MarqueeMark said:
And much of Feb I suspect.Leon said:
Well at least he has managed to do it on the same day as Sturgeon, and at a better time for maximum TV news-drama. So he won't look like the usual Johnny cum lately.FrancisUrquhart said:
Here we go......2 days too late. Lets hope it isn't another I am announcing this evening that from a week on Thursday....CarlottaVance said:
Oh God. Full lockdown in January. Grisly.
But we were all saying on here well before Christmas that this is what the New Year would require. And lo....0 -
Still too much though. In Angus we have chopped and changed a lot and our proximity to Dundee, which has rightly been in a higher category most of the time, has added to the confusion.Carnyx said:
Indeed. The Scottish situation has chopped and changed much less than in England - for one thing we had a decent nmumber of levels to begin with unlike down south, though PBTories criticised that virulently as I recall.DavidL said:
Its depressingly hard to work out but in Scotland the religious exemption is gone. Travel for education is no longer possible, nor training. It's mainly schools tbh.NerysHughes said:Other than closing schools what is the difference between what NS has just annouced for Scotland compared to Tier 4 in England?
One thing that we must learn from this disaster is that attempts by politicians to fine tune restrictions and frequent changes of rules is hugely and completely counter-productive resulting in far less compliance and effectiveness. One can see the attraction, especially from the Treasury, but it is just not worth it.
As I say, I can understand the temptation. We have a village pub that may not survive this and which invested heavily in outdoor benches, heaters, etc only to be shut down again when we went back to Dundee's level. But it just doesn't work. Simple rules consistently applied is what is required.0 -
There will be "alas" aplenty.Benpointer said:Here are my predictions for the Johnson press conference:
1. Ridiculously ruffled hair.
2. Schoolboy smirk.
3. 'Comedy' analogy.
4. Total failure to convince.3 -
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint0 -
Case numbers are dominated by the second wave, because there wasn't much testing in the first.rkrkrk said:One thing I hadn't realized is how much better Scotland has done at a macro level at keeping down corona cases.
Unless I'm reading it wrong - they reckon only 2.46% confirmed cases vs. >4% in the other nations (almost 5% in Wales). Presumably that isn't just down to testing levels being different?
Yet their death numbers are not that much lower (possibly due to care home mistakes?)
Death numbers are still dominated by the first, where Scotland did about as badly as everyone else.0 -
Your honour, my client accepts that stabbing the victim 134 times led to a suboptimal outcome...Benpointer said:
That 'suboptimal' is being made to work very hard there David.DavidL said:
It was really obvious as soon as it became clear how much more infectious the new variant was. The lack of obvious preparation since that time (roughly mid December) seems pretty suboptimal.MarqueeMark said:
And much of Feb I suspect.Leon said:
Well at least he has managed to do it on the same day as Sturgeon, and at a better time for maximum TV news-drama. So he won't look like the usual Johnny cum lately.FrancisUrquhart said:
Here we go......2 days too late. Lets hope it isn't another I am announcing this evening that from a week on Thursday....CarlottaVance said:
Oh God. Full lockdown in January. Grisly.
But we were all saying on here well before Christmas that this is what the New Year would require. And lo....1 -
He's an absolute cockmunch.Scott_xP said:
Albeit if he was the lovely ladies of that London would be safer and at less risk of accidentally producing another of his love childs.0 -
I think we can shelve that debate for the next 11 months or so. Mad Max has always, at least to me, been a fundamentally Christmas movie.TheScreamingEagles said:5 -
So much for alcohol free January.....
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1346113081261367299?s=201 -
There would be nothing illegal about the Scottish government holding a referendum. No law forbids it, but OTOH no law gives it any particular weight. Remainers would possibly suggest a boycott in order to dilute its moral validity.DavidL said:
Do you disagree? Genuinely interested.Carnyx said:
Getting a bit logically confused there. PBTory doctrine is that Ms S won't go for an illegal referendum.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.Alistair said:
Scotland can't close the Airports.MaxPB said:Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Nichola would be very slow to associate herself with a project that could slump. It's quite possible of course that those in power in the SNP enjoy immensely simultaneously being in power while nursing and nurturing a permanent grievance and excuse for any failure.
0 -
You have some like-minded people across the pond.contrarian said:
What Jane really wants is Kamps and barbed wire.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/SamBraslow/status/13459352191703121930 -
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.HYUFD said:
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom dealsLeon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.3 -
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.kle4 said:
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.contrarian said:
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
And I suspect many on here know that.0 -
Unless you count the ski centres. Depending on your tolerance for sheet ice and spindrift.Leon said:
Also, I doubt outdoor playgrounds are that popular in Scotland in January, anywayLostPassword said:
It's outdoors. Not so long close to the same people as when sat in a classroom.Richard_Tyndall said:
The strange one about Scotland is kids are still able to mix in playgrounds outside of school. If kids are now being considered a primary route of transmission between families surely this is a rather dangerous loophole?DavidL said:
Its depressingly hard to work out but in Scotland the religious exemption is gone. Travel for education is no longer possible, nor training. It's mainly schools tbh.NerysHughes said:Other than closing schools what is the difference between what NS has just annouced for Scotland compared to Tier 4 in England?
One thing that we must learn from this disaster is that attempts by politicians to fine tune restrictions and frequent changes of rules is hugely and completely counter-productive resulting in far less compliance and effectiveness. One can see the attraction, especially from the Treasury, but it is just not worth it.
I quite like them. Cruising the pistes of Europe is for wimps (and super-spreaders). Except Cairngorm though, don't go there. [That's a tale of Scottish government incompetence for another day]0 -
You mean you don't already? I know I doTheScreamingEagles said:2 -
It seems we have two possibilitiesOnlyLivingBoy said:
Ha I bet all you people who said Johnson would be following Sturgeon by 5pm tonight feel pretty fucking stupid now.CarlottaVance said:
(i) Sturgeon is an indecisive idiot who nonetheless somehow has a mole deep within Downing Street enabling her to announce Johnson's restrictions as her own before they are announced in England and look like she is the one in control of the situation and decisive
(ii) Johnson is the indecisive idiot
Occam's razor?1 -
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?1
-
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".Leon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.0 -
Deep regret.kinabalu said:
There will be "alas" aplenty.Benpointer said:Here are my predictions for the Johnson press conference:
1. Ridiculously ruffled hair.
2. Schoolboy smirk.
3. 'Comedy' analogy.
4. Total failure to convince.
Vaccine cavalry.1 -
Shut the schools!CarlottaVance said:So much for alcohol free January.....
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1346113081261367299?s=20
Followed by...
Why have you shut the schools?!!1 -
I prefer to stay polite.Benpointer said:
That 'suboptimal' is being made to work very hard there David.DavidL said:
It was really obvious as soon as it became clear how much more infectious the new variant was. The lack of obvious preparation since that time (roughly mid December) seems pretty suboptimal.MarqueeMark said:
And much of Feb I suspect.Leon said:
Well at least he has managed to do it on the same day as Sturgeon, and at a better time for maximum TV news-drama. So he won't look like the usual Johnny cum lately.FrancisUrquhart said:
Here we go......2 days too late. Lets hope it isn't another I am announcing this evening that from a week on Thursday....CarlottaVance said:
Oh God. Full lockdown in January. Grisly.
But we were all saying on here well before Christmas that this is what the New Year would require. And lo....0 -
It gives a bloody good insight into how teachers feel about the government though.Scott_xP said:
Admittedly, our hatred of and contempt for them has been dragged up to a whole new level.1 -
There seems to be a hell of lot of Covid circulating in football.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Premier league and all other football stopped.?CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
0 -
She can close her land border, should she so wish. There are only about 30 crossings, including farm tracks absolutely tiny backroads in the middle of nowhere. She could block most crossborder roads and impose border controls on the remaining 10 or so routes.Alistair said:
It's defacto closed but she can't actually really close it.Philip_Thompson said:
Why? Has she closed the border.Alistair said:There we go, Nicolas statement finished. In about 3 shambolic days that will be the England plan.
If not it should not be the plan.
Close the effing border Boris. Then it is your own plan. Listen to Hunt.
(I feel absolutely awful saying close the border)0 -
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.ydoethur said:
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint0 -
Did you see Messrs J and H claiming this morning that schools were perfectly safe, Teacher was not at any particular risk, etc.?ydoethur said:
It gives a bloody good insight into how teachers feel about the government though.Scott_xP said:
Admittedly, our hatred of and contempt for them has been dragged up to a whole new level.0 -
I suspect otherwise. People mean what they say, its rude without reason to presume they are falsely stating their position, even if they are wrong.contrarian said:
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.kle4 said:
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.contrarian said:
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
And I suspect many on here know that.1 -
Is there a 'not' cheese grater next to your privates option?RochdalePioneers said:
You mean you don't already? I know I doTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I thought Brexit as a subject was no more, has ceased to be, and bereft of life, it rests in peace.Leon said:
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.HYUFD said:
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom dealsLeon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.0 -
Don't know what its like for you southerners but that would be a bit chilly up here right now. Our hills are covered in snow and our cul-de-sac is like a skating rink again today.MarqueeMark said:
I was so ahead of my time....TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
By backroom deal, I assume you mean decision reached by sovereign democratically elected governments, exercising their sovereign right within the EU to appoint the head of the European Commission (despite apparently having surrendered their sovereignty to that same European Commission).HYUFD said:
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals.Leon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Juncker ironically was the only Spitzenkandidat after the 2014 European Parliament election results and therefore the only democratically elected European President, even if indirectly0 -
Well, good luck to you all. Hope it goes off smoothly.RochdalePioneers said:
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.ydoethur said:
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint1 -
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.RochdalePioneers said:
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.ydoethur said:
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint0 -
-
0
-
Yes.Carnyx said:
Did you see Messrs J and H claiming this morning that schools were perfectly safe, Teacher was not at any particular risk, etc.?ydoethur said:
It gives a bloody good insight into how teachers feel about the government though.Scott_xP said:
Admittedly, our hatred of and contempt for them has been dragged up to a whole new level.
I'll buy a new TV to replace the one with the massive holes in the screen at a later date.0 -
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".Leon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.0 -
Stopping the football will end up with the bored idiots on the streets complains about something. Remember how all the protesting stopped when the football came back.kle4 said:
Why? They played in the last lockdown. They might welcome a break but they seem to have a process that works.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Premier league and all other football stopped.?CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=200 -
massive change if you are a parent, I would have thought.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
And school closures hit the poorest hardest. The children of the wealthy middle class leftists screeching for lockdown will be fine.0 -
I made no such commitment and have needed a whisky already this year. My issues have been (a) beer and (b) crap food, both in serious quantities. I *have* to lose some weight and quickly as am disgusting. So out running / walking every day, not snacking, not eating junk.CarlottaVance said:So much for alcohol free January.....
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1346113081261367299?s=20
Happily my measures* are robust. So a couple of whiskys and feel mellow enough.
*pour a bit more every time
0 -
I can't imagine there will be any exemption for Burns' Night, whether the haggis is 'British' or 'Scottish' (a duality, interestingly, also present in Burns' own life, depending on how honest he was being).Nigelb said:
There will at least be no repeat of the encouragement to have friends or family round for festive dinners.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
0 -
No.contrarian said:
there's already a 99.5% chance though, right?Richard_Tyndall said:
At least there will be a better chance they will still have parents and grandparents tomorrow.contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=200 -
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
1 -
The Romans tried that and ended up having to spend the entire GDP building a wall so big they couldn't take it away when they left and it's still there. It's murder keeping the Celtic Britons and the Picts apart. And now you have to sort the Saxons as well.RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint
NB Don't tell the thought police but a great friend of mine has just crossed one of the 28 borders into Scotland and hasn't been shot. Yet.
0 -
-
Only when the stubble starts rubbing against other stubble.Luckyguy1983 said:
Is there a 'not' cheese grater next to your privates option?RochdalePioneers said:
You mean you don't already? I know I doTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I did wonder.ydoethur said:
Yes.Carnyx said:
Did you see Messrs J and H claiming this morning that schools were perfectly safe, Teacher was not at any particular risk, etc.?ydoethur said:
It gives a bloody good insight into how teachers feel about the government though.Scott_xP said:
Admittedly, our hatred of and contempt for them has been dragged up to a whole new level.
I'll buy a new TV to replace the one with the massive holes in the screen at a later date.1 -
So as everyone except the government saw coming, he's going to reverse what he said yesterday, isn't he?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Suppose it counts as an adequate face covering.TheScreamingEagles said:2 -
99.5% chance for parents, certainly.Andy_Cooke said:
No.contrarian said:
there's already a 99.5% chance though, right?Richard_Tyndall said:
At least there will be a better chance they will still have parents and grandparents tomorrow.contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=200 -
Hadrian's wall (apart from the extreme western end) is nowhere near the Scottish border, nor did it form the boundary of the Roman Empire.algarkirk said:
The Romans tried that and ended up having to spend the entire GDP building a wall so big they couldn't take it away when they left and it's still there. It's murder keeping the Celtic Britons and the Picts apart. And now you have to sort the Saxons as well.RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint
NB Don't tell the thought police but a great friend of mine has just crossed one of the 28 borders into Scotland and hasn't been shot. Yet.
Edit - incidentally, the fortifications constructed along the Rhine and Danube at the same time to get the Picts away suggest they had a hell of a long reach.0 -
And who would, if you had your way, face even more enormous economic and social challenges due to the inaction of the previous one.contrarian said:
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.0 -
It's not me who is CONSTANTLY bringing it up. You know I far prefer to talk about mass death and apocalypse.Theuniondivvie said:
I thought Brexit as a subject was no more, has ceased to be, and bereft of life, it rests in peace.Leon said:
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.HYUFD said:
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom dealsLeon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.2 -
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1346113547319865344?s=20
I think we were only at level 4 in March. Ergo restrictions need to be stricter than in March.0 -
So are people really saying Sturgeon preempted Boris and that's Boris's plan was to have schools go back for a day before closing them.
Really?
Really???2 -
Which would also be broadly the same position as the Scottish announcement.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
In both instances a huge amount of government spin and media hyperbole are being used to make this seem like a much bigger announcement than it really is, because the truth is we have run out of bullets and all there is left is telling people the schools are shut for a while and that it is a race between vaccine and the new variant.0 -
Or a third.Selebian said:
It seems we have two possibilitiesOnlyLivingBoy said:
Ha I bet all you people who said Johnson would be following Sturgeon by 5pm tonight feel pretty fucking stupid now.CarlottaVance said:
(i) Sturgeon is an indecisive idiot who nonetheless somehow has a mole deep within Downing Street enabling her to announce Johnson's restrictions as her own before they are announced in England and look like she is the one in control of the situation and decisive
(ii) Johnson is the indecisive idiot
Occam's razor?
Officials discuss options behind the scenes and politicians announce changes when they've agreed them with their cabinets?1 -
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?MarqueeMark said:
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
1 -
Don't know what its like for you southerners but that would be a bit chilly up here right now. Our hills are covered in snow and our cul-de-sac is like a skating rink again today.
Yep. The question of golf on or off in England is somewhat moot up here.
Just been for a walk, and can report golf on.
If you don't mind the snow making your yardage incorrect and putting next to impossible.0 -
Lockdown 4 - Lock Down or Die Free?Benpointer said:https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1346113547319865344?s=20
I think we were only at level 4 in March. Ergo restrictions need to be stricter than in March.0 -
THat's a bit like saying that the concrete fence on the Inner German Border wasn't the frontier of East Germany. But yes it was part of a zone of defence.ydoethur said:
Hadrian's wall (apart from the extreme western end) is nowhere near the Scottish border, nor did it form the boundary of the Roman Empire.algarkirk said:
The Romans tried that and ended up having to spend the entire GDP building a wall so big they couldn't take it away when they left and it's still there. It's murder keeping the Celtic Britons and the Picts apart. And now you have to sort the Saxons as well.RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint
NB Don't tell the thought police but a great friend of mine has just crossed one of the 28 borders into Scotland and hasn't been shot. Yet.
Have you been to the patrol road and line of towers at the Gask Ridge in Perthshire? The northernmost surviving border zone of the Imperium Romanum.0 -
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.Carnyx said:
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.RochdalePioneers said:
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.ydoethur said:
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.0 -
What I am stating is fact. What you are stating is a projection. It does not existAndy_Cooke said:
And who would, if you had your way, face even more enormous economic and social challenges due to the inaction of the previous one.contrarian said:
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.BluestBlue said:
Did you really enjoy school that much?contrarian said:
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.CarlottaVance said:Peston addressing the nation:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1346110314224340993?s=20
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
See Niall Ferguson for details.0 -
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.Leon said:
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".Leon said:
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.HYUFD said:
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European ParliamentLeon said:
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.kjh said:
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?Leon said:kjh:
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/who-killed-the-spitzenkandidat-european-parliament-election-2019-transition/
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.0 -
Must be hellish hard being PM, when the scientists keep telling him "Wait for it...wait for it....."
"Guys, can you actually SEE the white of a virus' eyes?"0 -
They've probably forgotten about the Scilly Isles and will have to rush out a statement at 2a.m.MarqueeMark said:
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.dixiedean said:So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
1 -
Other than Prof Peston has made claims like this before about what is about to be announced and been shown to be wrong....CarlottaVance said:2 -
Good point well made.ydoethur said:
Hadrian's wall (apart from the extreme western end) is nowhere near the Scottish border, nor did it form the boundary of the Roman Empire.algarkirk said:
The Romans tried that and ended up having to spend the entire GDP building a wall so big they couldn't take it away when they left and it's still there. It's murder keeping the Celtic Britons and the Picts apart. And now you have to sort the Saxons as well.RochdalePioneers said:8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable:
B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction
A74(M) - easy checkpoint
Two minor roads to stop up
A7 checkpoint
Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads
A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space
Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards
A697 Coldstream checkpoint
Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105
A1 Lamberton checkpoint
NB Don't tell the thought police but a great friend of mine has just crossed one of the 28 borders into Scotland and hasn't been shot. Yet.
Edit - incidentally, the fortifications constructed along the Rhine and Danube at the same time to get the Picts away suggest they had a hell of a long reach.
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