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Trump’s desperate attempt to bully the Georgia Secretary of State shows the lengths he’ll go to hang

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 4 in General
Trump’s desperate attempt to bully the Georgia Secretary of State shows the lengths he’ll go to hang on – politicalbetting.com

The big Trump news overnight has been the above attempt by the President to find a way of hanging on in there. Just listening to it he sounds desperate and there are on 16 days left till Biden’s inauguration.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 4
    First, and hopefully the last of Trump.

    The timing for the Georgia run-off is a moment of high drama.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 4,702
    Hopefully Trump's latest shenanigans will kill off the Republicans' hopes in the GA runoff. Unfortunately they probably won't.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    Raffensperger 2024
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730
    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    FPT: Jonathan, the Conservatives don't sneer at aspiration. They don't look down their nose at patriotism. The honest working man or woman, trying to make a living for their family? Come aboard.

    The Conservative Party doesn't get very bothered by race, creed or religion these days. Look at the make-up of the Cabinet. They have had two women Prime Ministers (ahem, Labour....) Although Conservatives are probably more likely to see Muslim suicide bombers and tar the whole of Islam with the same "they are out to get us" brush. But then, they just share that prejudice with the wider electorate. It's just what happens when some of your adherents blow us up on buses and trains and at pop concerts.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 2,711

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Vaccine roll out has barely begun - one country on the planet (Israel) has reached a level of vaccination that *might* have a noticeable effect.

    The spread of the virus is a function of the average behaviour of the population - go and look out of your front door. How many people maskless and getting within 2m of others?

    This may be less palatable than blaming Boris/Cummings/The Illuminati etc but it is hard fact.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    My aunt has had her jab. No sign of suddenly buying Microsoft products.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
  • Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    or indeed, as Pfizer have said, it would be incredibly easy and quick to amend all the vaccines should the need arise due to mutations.

    Some people just want the vaccines to fail to justify their previous position that millions will die no matter what approach was taken.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Early evidence the implant chip works then....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    We don’t have evidence, but we have very serious scientists - and now politicians - saying this resistance is quite possible. Ignoring this seems foolish, at best.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,155

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back

    Never mind that, can you update us on all those empty ICU beds? I thought the spread of the virus wasn't a thing at all.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
    One shot of Oxford and I'm off out to the club.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I don;t give a monkeys whether it is resistant or not. I am not afraid of the virus.

    What frightens me is the power of the state and the unaccountable SAGE committee. A committee that is determined to hold on to the vast unaccountable influence it has, whatever happens with the virus.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    We don’t have evidence, but we have very serious scientists - and now politicians - saying this resistance is quite possible. Ignoring this seems foolish, at best.
    Taking it as a given is foolish. Especially from a politician.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
    One shot of Oxford and I'm off out to the club.
    To the Union, surely?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 621
    Those disgraceful GOP members who refuse to certify the result, when Trump lost in the EC and by over 6 million in the popular vote may be buying a little insurance against a challenge from the right, but they may be condemning their party in the country at large to collapse.

    The party civil war that breaks out on January 21st will only be finished when the far right is vanquished. Once Trump has gone and his legal jeopardy catches up with him, it will be very hard indeed to support anything he was associated with.

    Going to be the biggest settling of scores in quite a while. Cruz et al will be defeated and the drang nach recht of the GOP will finally be halted.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    It wasn;t me that raised the issue of the SA variant's resistance. It was Sir John Bell of the SAGE committee.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Get a grip you utter fanny. At least have some dignity as we enter total societal collapse.
    Lol. I shall go down with a glass of the finest Henschke in my hand. Nerveless, and with the faintest smile.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    It's never wrong to focus on the cricket. Georgia? Maybe not so much.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 2,711
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    A response to Contrarian really Leon, but referred to you because of your humous response to me yesterday when I accused you of the same and you replied 'its my job' which made me laugh.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    Where’s yer spunk, son? Focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk would be quintessentially English.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
    One shot of Oxford and I'm off out to the club.
    To the Union, surely?
    Dead pig heads need to watch out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Get a grip you utter fanny. At least have some dignity as we enter total societal collapse.
    Lol. I shall go down with a glass of the finest Henschke in my hand. Nerveless, and with the faintest smile.
    An American friend came up with the winning quote for Best Thing To Say As The Titanic Sank.

    "Waiter, I am very sorry. I asked for extra ice for my G&T, but this is simply ridiculous."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893

    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    Where’s yer spunk, son? Focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk would be quintessentially English.
    Not if you were the owner of a small boat in Cowes at the time
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Cicero said:

    Those disgraceful GOP members who refuse to certify the result, when Trump lost in the EC and by over 6 million in the popular vote may be buying a little insurance against a challenge from the right, but they may be condemning their party in the country at large to collapse.

    The party civil war that breaks out on January 21st will only be finished when the far right is vanquished. Once Trump has gone and his legal jeopardy catches up with him, it will be very hard indeed to support anything he was associated with.

    Going to be the biggest settling of scores in quite a while. Cruz et al will be defeated and the drang nach recht of the GOP will finally be halted.

    Or more likely, America will settle down to remembering Trump and thinking "what a douche".

    And the Survivalists will continue to survive...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 371

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    or indeed, as Pfizer have said, it would be incredibly easy and quick to amend all the vaccines should the need arise due to mutations.

    Some people just want the vaccines to fail to justify their previous position that millions will die no matter what approach was taken.
    And the ability to fast-track variant vaccines based on the mRNA technology is now very high; but it will depend on the population adapting rapidly and effectively to lockdowns etc and we have been exceptionally poor at that.

    Learning to live with coronaviruses really means "learning to accept the rules" rather than "learning to find loopholes in the rules to personal advantage" and that is a massive cultural change for us.

    It will also require a confident, authoritative, widely respected government, and we don't have one of those.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    Where’s yer spunk, son? Focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk would be quintessentially English.
    Not if you were the owner of a small boat in Cowes at the time
    Reading the scores would pass the time on the boring part of the voyage.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730
    Cicero said:

    Those disgraceful GOP members who refuse to certify the result, when Trump lost in the EC and by over 6 million in the popular vote may be buying a little insurance against a challenge from the right, but they may be condemning their party in the country at large to collapse.

    The party civil war that breaks out on January 21st will only be finished when the far right is vanquished. Once Trump has gone and his legal jeopardy catches up with him, it will be very hard indeed to support anything he was associated with.

    Going to be the biggest settling of scores in quite a while. Cruz et al will be defeated and the drang nach recht of the GOP will finally be halted.

    The GOP will never win with a Romneyshambles candidate. There are too many Trumpists, far too many, as his massive rallies amply illustrate.

    Actually, they are never going to win with any candidate. America is hurtling to the left.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    Jonathan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
    One shot of Oxford and I'm off out to the club.
    To the Union, surely?
    Dead pig heads need to watch out.
    I hardly think Pulpstar would want to join the Piers Gaveston.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,944

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I don;t give a monkeys whether it is resistant or not. I am not afraid of the virus.

    What frightens me is the power of the state and the unaccountable SAGE committee. A committee that is determined to hold on to the vast unaccountable influence it has, whatever happens with the virus.
    Is there a name for the Irresistible International Conspiracy of Authoritarian Scientists yet? We need a snazzy acronym, because IICAS is fairly lame, and reminiscent of an arbitration service.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349

    FPT: Jonathan, the Conservatives don't sneer at aspiration. They don't look down their nose at patriotism. The honest working man or woman, trying to make a living for their family? Come aboard.

    The Conservative Party doesn't get very bothered by race, creed or religion these days. Look at the make-up of the Cabinet. They have had two women Prime Ministers (ahem, Labour....) Although Conservatives are probably more likely to see Muslim suicide bombers and tar the whole of Islam with the same "they are out to get us" brush. But then, they just share that prejudice with the wider electorate. It's just what happens when some of your adherents blow us up on buses and trains and at pop concerts.

    ‘These days’ is good.
    You lot still have prolapses if any criticism is made of the bloke that thought ‘keep England white’ was a goer as an election slogan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Get a grip you utter fanny. At least have some dignity as we enter total societal collapse.
    Lol. I shall go down with a glass of the finest Henschke in my hand. Nerveless, and with the faintest smile.
    An American friend came up with the winning quote for Best Thing To Say As The Titanic Sank.

    "Waiter, I am very sorry. I asked for extra ice for my G&T, but this is simply ridiculous."
    Very good. Lol
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    It wasn;t me that raised the issue of the SA variant's resistance. It was Sir John Bell of the SAGE committee.

    He hasn't said "It doesn't work. We're all going to die....so fuck the lockdowns, shop 'til you drop." As you have.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    Cicero said:

    Those disgraceful GOP members who refuse to certify the result, when Trump lost in the EC and by over 6 million in the popular vote may be buying a little insurance against a challenge from the right, but they may be condemning their party in the country at large to collapse.

    The party civil war that breaks out on January 21st will only be finished when the far right is vanquished. Once Trump has gone and his legal jeopardy catches up with him, it will be very hard indeed to support anything he was associated with.

    Going to be the biggest settling of scores in quite a while. Cruz et al will be defeated and the drang nach recht of the GOP will finally be halted.

    Or more likely, America will settle down to remembering Trump and thinking "what a douche".

    And the Survivalists will continue to survive...
    Anybody who thinks the GOP can simply turn the clock back to pre-Trump buggins turn with the democrats days are surely wrong. America has morphed massively since then.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 44,520
    Work to start January 16th.....for a committee Macron announced in November:

    The Economic, Social and Environmental Council (Cese) announces this Sunday, January 3 in the Journal du Dimanche and to Franceinfo that the drawing of lots for the 35 members of the future "collective of citizens" responsible for deciding on the French vaccine strategy against the coronavirus will begin this Monday. The panel formed will respect criteria of age, gender, region of residence, level of qualification, socio-professional category and type of residence.

    In Le Parisien , Gabriel Attal, the government spokesperson, explained that this group of around thirty "citizens drawn by lot, representing all the territories, will be formed on January 10" . Their work will begin on January 16. The government spokesperson assures us that they "will be able to ask all the questions, make all the observations and question Olivier Véran or Professor Alain Fisher" on the management of the Covid-19 epidemic and vaccination. This citizen collective was first mentioned by Emmanuel Macron on November 24 in a speech.


    https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/sante-sciences/coronavirus-35-francais-tires-au-sort-des-demain-pour-se-prononcer-sur-la-strategie-vaccinale-1609692378

    I know they've got a problem with vaccine acceptance in France - and in the meantime they are vaccinating Care Home residents & front line medical workers....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    Where’s yer spunk, son? Focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk would be quintessentially English.
    Not if you were the owner of a small boat in Cowes at the time
    Reading the scores would pass the time on the boring part of the voyage.
    Good grief. I have considerable sympathy for cricket, as a rather more temporally substantial version of sumo wrestling, but I'd rather memorise lunar tables, or the middle subjunctives of Ancient Greek irregular verbs, than do that.
  • I see that the Chicken Licken tendency are out of their cage again.

    In University news, UCL has announced that students should not return to campus (unless already there, or doing special subjects) until at least the end of Feb. I hear that Cambridge may be doing something similar. Let's hope that some other Universities grow a backbone and do the same. Mine still silent.

    --AS
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,944
    I did wonder about the worst-case of what would happen if the hospitals do get overloaded.

    Because it's becoming more plausible by the day.

    At an uneducated glance, hospitalisations per day need to be below 1500 to have any chance of stabilising the raw numbers in hospital (looking at the hospitalisations per day on the dashboard and ooking across to ttal numbers in hospital).

    They're currently in excess of 3000 per day, and climbing.

    We know that in practice, when the overload comes, hospitals will triage by age. We're hoping that the oldest will be not as present in the stats already via vaccination, but if overload happens now, it's still too soon for significant effects.

    If it happens in two weeks, the over 85s might be largely protected already. In four to six weeks, half the over 75s might be, as well. Beyond that, the effects will hopefully kick in at an accelerating rate; we're in a race.

    If hopsitals can only cope with half the daily intake, and that's focused on younger ages, the over-75s are on their own. About 1500 per day. Most of these possibly dying.

    If only a third (ie hospitalisations over 4500 per day), the over-65s are on their own. That's 3,000 per day not being helped when they need it.

    If they get above that, all bets are off. With increasing spread, I could see it getting down to the over 45s being abandoned, but that would be the worst plausible case, I think. We'd be looking at over 10,000 per day needing hospitalisation, reflecting case numbers consistently over 100,000 per day. With over 8,000 of those that would otherwise be hospitalised not being helped.

    January death toll could therefore be anything between 20,000 (if hospitals manage to keep treating everyone, which seems increasingly more challenging) to over 100,000 in that month alone, but I want to believe that last case is highly unlikely. The numbers should, though, reduce startlingly quickly as vaccination takes effect.

    It truly is very much a race.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 583
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect the Oxford vaccine will provide enough cross immunity to those of us who are young and healthy enough to not receive it any time soon for the SA strain.

    A reasonable worse case scenario now is: vaccines are ultimately ineffective, at least for a few years.

    In that case, because economies cannot stay shut forever, the virus will - as some foresaw at the start - simply rip through humanity, taking out 3% of people, and damaging more. Health systems adjust by simply refusing to treat many cases. In the end the virus fizzles out as we reach herd immunity through near-universal infection. Or it just becomes something horrible we learn to live with, just as we lived alongside smallpox, for centuries.
    We better start building the bring-out-your-dead carts then.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730
    edited January 4

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    It wasn;t me that raised the issue of the SA variant's resistance. It was Sir John Bell of the SAGE committee.

    He hasn't said "It doesn't work. We're all going to die....so fuck the lockdowns, shop 'til you drop." As you have.
    No he is using the SA variant, and doubtless other variants as yet undreamt of, to disabuse people of the notion that the vaccine will set them free. Which is what they have been told.

    His message is 'we will always need lockdowns'. There will never be life without the threat of lockdown. Even with vaccines. Ever.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,944
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    That death rate is only with medical intervention when needed.
    What would it be if all those who were hospitalised were sent home without any support instead?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Get a grip you utter fanny. At least have some dignity as we enter total societal collapse.
    Lol. I shall go down with a glass of the finest Henschke in my hand. Nerveless, and with the faintest smile.
    An American friend came up with the winning quote for Best Thing To Say As The Titanic Sank.

    "Waiter, I am very sorry. I asked for extra ice for my G&T, but this is simply ridiculous."
    Very good. Lol
    The apologetic politeness to the waiter is the important bit, I feel.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    FPT: Jonathan, the Conservatives don't sneer at aspiration. They don't look down their nose at patriotism. The honest working man or woman, trying to make a living for their family? Come aboard.

    The Conservative Party doesn't get very bothered by race, creed or religion these days. Look at the make-up of the Cabinet. They have had two women Prime Ministers (ahem, Labour....) Although Conservatives are probably more likely to see Muslim suicide bombers and tar the whole of Islam with the same "they are out to get us" brush. But then, they just share that prejudice with the wider electorate. It's just what happens when some of your adherents blow us up on buses and trains and at pop concerts.

    ‘These days’ is good.
    You lot still have prolapses if any criticism is made of the bloke that thought ‘keep England white’ was a goer as an election slogan.
    Says the man in a 96% white Scotland.

    Is that because Scots are racists - or because no other ethnicities want to go there?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349
    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    The Georgia elections determine who controls the Senate. They are extremely important for the next 2 years at least.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    That death rate is only with medical intervention when needed.
    What would it be if all those who were hospitalised were sent home without any support instead?
    Let's hope we don't find out. A possible example is amongst those in care homes, most of whom died in situ without going to hospital. A very vulnerable group of course but I was involved in a case before Christmas where the death rate reached 50%+ in one home.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    It wasn;t me that raised the issue of the SA variant's resistance. It was Sir John Bell of the SAGE committee.

    He hasn't said "It doesn't work. We're all going to die....so fuck the lockdowns, shop 'til you drop." As you have.
    No he is using the SA variant, and doubtless other variants as yet undreamt of, to disabuse people of the notion that the vaccine will set them free. Which is what they have been told.

    His message is 'we will always need lockdowns'. There will never be life without the threat of lockdown. Even with vaccines. Ever.
    You are stark raving bonkers.

    Cui bono, why would anyone want to keep people locked down and paid furlough?
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,067
    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Ever the academic, I can recommend the following book about the blitz:

    "Citizens of London" by Lynne Olson

    Read it and weep.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I don;t give a monkeys whether it is resistant or not. I am not afraid of the virus.

    What frightens me is the power of the state and the unaccountable SAGE committee. A committee that is determined to hold on to the vast unaccountable influence it has, whatever happens with the virus.
    Is there a name for the Irresistible International Conspiracy of Authoritarian Scientists yet? We need a snazzy acronym, because IICAS is fairly lame, and reminiscent of an arbitration service.
    The SAGE committee and NERVTAG are people, as the example of shagger Ferguson reminds us.

    Lets face it Andy, if SAGE told you to jump off cliff to stop the spread of the virus, you probably would.
  • We can all do something to prevent total societal collapse. Stay At Home. It's catchy, it's effective, it's almost nostalgic.

    Why isn't Shagger bringing back one of his greatest hits?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    According to Worldometer, the global case fatality ratio is, at the moment, 3%

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Of course in reality it must be less than that, because of undetected infections etc, but we cannot know the true figure. And, as you rightly say, the real nightmare is crashed health systems, in which case the CFR will shoot up as many bad cases go untreated, and other ailments are ignored, can’t reach hospital, and so forth



  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    edited January 4

    FPT: Jonathan, the Conservatives don't sneer at aspiration. They don't look down their nose at patriotism. The honest working man or woman, trying to make a living for their family? Come aboard.

    The Conservative Party doesn't get very bothered by race, creed or religion these days. Look at the make-up of the Cabinet. They have had two women Prime Ministers (ahem, Labour....) Although Conservatives are probably more likely to see Muslim suicide bombers and tar the whole of Islam with the same "they are out to get us" brush. But then, they just share that prejudice with the wider electorate. It's just what happens when some of your adherents blow us up on buses and trains and at pop concerts.

    ‘These days’ is good.
    You lot still have prolapses if any criticism is made of the bloke that thought ‘keep England white’ was a goer as an election slogan.
    Says the man in a 96% white Scotland.

    Is that because Scots are racists - or because no other ethnicities want to go there?
    If you’re going pop out a floppy zinger, you might as well get the stats right. How’s the multiculturalism going in your part of the world, moi luvver?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 47,349
    edited January 4
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    That death rate is only with medical intervention when needed.
    What would it be if all those who were hospitalised were sent home without any support instead?
    Let's hope we don't find out. A possible example is amongst those in care homes, most of whom died in situ without going to hospital. A very vulnerable group of course but I was involved in a case before Christmas where the death rate reached 50%+ in one home.
    Indeed. People were left to die because they couldn't or wouldn't be taken to hospital.

    Someone here reported from the US the other day that in their State paramedics were already being told not to bring to hospital those they couldn't revive on site, instead they are now declared dead rather than being hospitalised (where the hospital often can revive people).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Come back to us with your foam-flecked rant-spittle when you have evidence that the South African virus is actually resistant to vaccines. Or even, to the vaccines we currently have.
    It wasn;t me that raised the issue of the SA variant's resistance. It was Sir John Bell of the SAGE committee.

    He hasn't said "It doesn't work. We're all going to die....so fuck the lockdowns, shop 'til you drop." As you have.
    No he is using the SA variant, and doubtless other variants as yet undreamt of, to disabuse people of the notion that the vaccine will set them free. Which is what they have been told.

    His message is 'we will always need lockdowns'. There will never be life without the threat of lockdown. Even with vaccines. Ever.
    You are stark raving bonkers.

    Cui bono, why would anyone want to keep people locked down and paid furlough?
    Are you moving on from vaccine worship as a way to get us out of this? or are you still harping on that one?

    Or have you moved on to 'economic collapse will set us free?'

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,944

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I don;t give a monkeys whether it is resistant or not. I am not afraid of the virus.

    What frightens me is the power of the state and the unaccountable SAGE committee. A committee that is determined to hold on to the vast unaccountable influence it has, whatever happens with the virus.
    Is there a name for the Irresistible International Conspiracy of Authoritarian Scientists yet? We need a snazzy acronym, because IICAS is fairly lame, and reminiscent of an arbitration service.
    The SAGE committee and NERVTAG are people, as the example of shagger Ferguson reminds us.

    Lets face it Andy, if SAGE told you to jump off cliff to stop the spread of the virus, you probably would.
    Don't be bloody stupid.

    Your continuing depths to which you'll take your delusion to avoid coming to terms with reality continue to push new boundaries.

    Hell, I remember discussing the economic case with you; you were stone cold certain that all economists must be against lockdown and were shocked to find the opposite was the case. Since then, you swiftly forgot all about that and I guess if you do think of it at all, must have concluded that they're part of that vast international conspiracy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    That death rate is only with medical intervention when needed.
    What would it be if all those who were hospitalised were sent home without any support instead?
    Precisely right
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,393

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 3,730

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    They have told people the vaccines will set them free as a way to prevent mass disorder.

    Ramping up restrictions after that is not a good look.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Waiting for Ms Sturgeon?

    "Look, the nasty SNP did it to us!"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    I think that is a fair point, but we can all see the numbers (and of course they are ones in the rear view mirror). It is clear with these new variants, we can't contain it without much stricter rules.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    A prediction - when the numbers come out this week, the COVID deniers will use the argument that since the case numbers are below the peak of the 29th (Caused by Christmas Effect), there is no problem.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 2,020
    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    True.
    But the tragedy of being a grown-up is sometimes having to do things you fundamentally dislike.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 371

    I see that the Chicken Licken tendency are out of their cage again.

    In University news, UCL has announced that students should not return to campus (unless already there, or doing special subjects) until at least the end of Feb. I hear that Cambridge may be doing something similar. Let's hope that some other Universities grow a backbone and do the same. Mine still silent.

    --AS

    That is the advice being given to Cambridge students (on a college-by-college basis, AIUI). They are not being *precluded* from coming in, but are being advised not to come.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,678
    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    You have got to be joking.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,479
    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    They are scared of making the wrong decision so make none, no principle or strategy behind it just a bunch of ditherers
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 44,520
    Looks like he's getting on a jet-plane (after appeal):

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 6,670

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Boris just can't make timely decisions. This isn't even a difficult one really.
    Much easier than the original lockdown decision.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009

    We can all do something to prevent total societal collapse. Stay At Home. It's catchy, it's effective, it's almost nostalgic.

    Why isn't Shagger bringing back one of his greatest hits?

    He is. Or rather the Highways Agency is. It's on every other gantry on the motorways.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156
    edited January 4
    I kind of welcome this crap from Donald Trump now he's definite toast. All it does is accelerate his journey from biggest baddest wannabe fascist strongman on the planet to ignominious decline and political obscurity. I am increasingly of the view he will fade and fast once he's prised out of the White House. Feeling bullish on Georgia too. Dem double looks on but at 2.2 the big betting value has probably gone. But speaking of betting value, Betfair has another stupid market trading in size. You can back Trump to cease to be POTUS in 2021 - an outcome with approx the same probability as the sun rising tomorrow - at 1.03. So a risk free 3% return on your money in 16 days. What an APR. Plus there's the added benefit of knowing that juicy return is being funded by delusional softhead Trumpsters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 11,379

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    BoZo is a clueless clown.

    Repeat ad infinitum...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Carnyx said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Waiting for Ms Sturgeon?

    "Look, the nasty SNP did it to us!"
    Tbf the ‘how dare Sturgeon try to upstage BJ’ bleating has dried up somewhat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 893
    edited January 4

    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    I think that is a fair point, but we can all see the numbers (and of course they are ones in the rear view mirror). It is clear with these new variants, we can't contain it without much stricter rules.
    How strict, tho? What if Tier 5 (spring lockdown, closed schools) doesn’t work? I guess they could literally order everyone indoors. 24 hour curfew. Tier 89. But even then you’d have essential workers going out... catching it...

    Hopefully the vaccines work. I believe they will. But if they don’t we might have to be very brutal in our choices to save our health system.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845

    FPT: Jonathan, the Conservatives don't sneer at aspiration. They don't look down their nose at patriotism. The honest working man or woman, trying to make a living for their family? Come aboard.

    The Conservative Party doesn't get very bothered by race, creed or religion these days. Look at the make-up of the Cabinet. They have had two women Prime Ministers (ahem, Labour....) Although Conservatives are probably more likely to see Muslim suicide bombers and tar the whole of Islam with the same "they are out to get us" brush. But then, they just share that prejudice with the wider electorate. It's just what happens when some of your adherents blow us up on buses and trains and at pop concerts.

    ‘These days’ is good.
    You lot still have prolapses if any criticism is made of the bloke that thought ‘keep England white’ was a goer as an election slogan.
    Says the man in a 96% white Scotland.

    Is that because Scots are racists - or because no other ethnicities want to go there?
    If you’re going pop out a floppy zinger, you might as well get the stats right. How’s the multiculturalism going in your part of the world, moi luvver?
    96% white Scotland:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/367842/scotland-ethnicity-of-population/#:~:text=Scotland: ethnic breakdown 2018&text=96 percent of the population,was Asians with 2.6 percent.

    Them's the right stats.

    Now - back to Scotlaand: racist, or just a wasteland no-one else wants to live in?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 34,732
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

    Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

    Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

    Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

    What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

    As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back
    Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

    If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.
    I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2
    I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

    The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

    This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.
    According to Worldometer, the global case fatality ratio is, at the moment, 3%

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Of course in reality it must be less than that, because of undetected infections etc, but we cannot know the true figure. And, as you rightly say, the real nightmare is crashed health systems, in which case the CFR will shoot up as many bad cases go untreated, and other ailments are ignored, can’t reach hospital, and so forth



    I noted the other day that our fatality rate was 3.00% of our "official" infection rate. The assumption that 3x as many have had the virus than the official figures suggest always looked somewhat anecdotal to me and must be becoming more questionable as our testing has ramped up to quite incredible levels. I personally think it likely that the fatality rate is more than 1% but hey, I am only a lawyer.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 657

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    The majority of the public want caution from the government but individually they continue to take risks, it seems.

    Boris is going to have to do a u-turn or whatever you want to call it, and lock down immediately. What other option is there?

    If it gets much worse getting vaccinated is going to be a very risky operation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

    The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Get a grip you utter fanny. At least have some dignity as we enter total societal collapse.
    He'll still be in bed the morning that society collapses, anyway
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,448
    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    Even if this means allowing hundreds of people to die.

    You might as well say that it is wrong for the government to say that we drive on the left hand side of the road.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 346

    Leon said:

    I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

    Where’s yer spunk, son? Focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk would be quintessentially English.
    Indeed so.

    There's still much debate hereabouts whether on HMS Bedford and the the deck cricket match, Capt Aubrey Symth-Roberts (Scots Guards) was caught in the English Channel at mid wicket off the bowling of Sgt Peter Wright (Somerset Light Infantry). At the time the Umpire Lt Ian Featherstone-Haigh (RN) was being diverted by a German Stuka, who was subsequently escorted from the ground by Sqn Ldr "Bonzo" Bertie White (RAF Biggin Hill).

    The match was deemed a draw when the sides docked and departed for tea courtesy of the NAAFI mobile refreshments van.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    kinabalu said:

    You can back Trump to cease to be POTUS in 2021 - an outcome with approx the same probability as the sun rising tomorrow - at 1.03. So a risk free 3% return on your money in 16 days. What an APR. Plus there's the added benefit of knowing that juicy return is being funded by delusional softhead Trumpsters.

    I've gone all in on this one. Even if Biden dies, the bet still wins.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 11,407
    Father has been in hospital since late December after suspected stroke - today we were advised Covid has found its way onto his ward.

    Happy days!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 4
    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

    They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

    Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.
    I think that is a fair point, but we can all see the numbers (and of course they are ones in the rear view mirror). It is clear with these new variants, we can't contain it without much stricter rules.
    How strict, tho? What if Tier 5 (spring lockdown, closed schools) doesn’t work? I guess they could literally order everyone indoors. 24 hour curfew. Tier 89. But even then you’d have essential workers going out... catching it...

    Hopefully the vaccines work. I believe they will. But if they don’t we might have to be very brutal in our choices to save our health system.
    I think unfortunately we have to go super strict e.g. Only go out for food / medicines and needs to be for next 2 months.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    South Korea records more deaths than births for the first time ever in the nation with the lowest birthrate in the world
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55526450
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