I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
At least there will be a better chance they will still have parents and grandparents tomorrow.
there's already a 99.5% chance though, right?
No.
99.5% chance for parents, certainly.
Oh, dear, you think the IFR is an invariant law of nature. Ages 45-64 have 7-10 times as much likelihood of being hospitalised as dying.
They get hospitalised when a doctor believes they need it to pull through. Otherwise, in current circumstances, they'll get sent home.
When the hospitals are overwhelmed, we then find out how high the IFR goes for each age band without assistance. Spoiler: it's somewhere between the current IFR and the current hospitalisation rate, and likely closer to the latter than the former.
I wonder if Trump is planning to clear off after his rally today. If Britain in general and Scotland in particular locks down more than other countries, though, he would presumably have second thoughts.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Best of luck - and let us know on PB when you come up and I will say welcome to Scotland.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
The Romans tried that and ended up having to spend the entire GDP building a wall so big they couldn't take it away when they left and it's still there. It's murder keeping the Celtic Britons and the Picts apart. And now you have to sort the Saxons as well.
NB Don't tell the thought police but a great friend of mine has just crossed one of the 28 borders into Scotland and hasn't been shot. Yet.
Hadrian's wall (apart from the extreme western end) is nowhere near the Scottish border, nor did it form the boundary of the Roman Empire.
THat's a bit like saying that the concrete fence on the Inner German Border wasn't the frontier of East Germany. But yes it was part of a zone of defence.
Have you been to the patrol road and line of towers at the Gask Ridge in Perthshire? The northernmost surviving border zone of the Imperium Romanum.
Yes.
There's some pretty decent Roman stuff in southern Scotland, although Hadrian's Wall is of course more famous.
I think my favourite though was an awesome pun by a Scottish archaeologist, Gordon Maxwell, on the biggest mystery of the Flavian campaigns under Agricola - where did Mons Graupius take place?
He mischievously called his book 'A Battle Lost: Romans and Caledonians at Mons Graupius.'
"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
In the EU the executive is appointed by elected governments and approved by an elected parliament. I grant you not as direct by a long way as the American system but hardly not democracy.
The UK system which is considered a democracy the executive is appointed by a PM like the American system, but the PM is not directly elected like the USA system. He/She is elected by a subset of the elected members of parliament who are elected by a dubious voting system.
All of these systems are far from perfect, but I would suggest that it would be illogical to conclude in the same breath that 2 were democratic and 1 not which was my only argument. They are all democratic to some extent and all have flaws.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.
Some of us saw the EU for what it was many years ago, non-democratic and incapable of reform- and the anti-democratic farce of Spitzenkandidat was mere confirmation of that truth, after the event of Brexit. There have been many other examples over the decades.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
And who would, if you had your way, face even more enormous economic and social challenges due to the inaction of the previous one.
What I am stating is fact. What you are stating is a projection. It does not exist
See Niall Ferguson for details.
1 - Wrong, we can see the economic damage in other places. 2 - Are you still wittering on about the Imperial College model? When, ten months on, it's turned out to be pretty bloody close? About 10% of us have been infected and 75,000 are dead. The model projected between 250,000 and 500,000 dead depending on our actions.
If anything, it's looking a bit over-optimistic right now.
"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
Rather misses the point I was making. I gave an example, it was not supposed to be identical. I doubt there is one. No democracy is perfect and there are many different types, but to suggest we have a democracy and the EU doesn't was the point I was responding to.
We have a democracy. It isn't perfect. So does the EU. It also isn't perfect.
How is 'I have no control over who I elect not a great argument'. I am not alone in thinking FPTP is a very poor system which disenfranchises a significant number of the population.
You do have control over who you elect just as much as I do. You elect an individual constituency representative to work on your behalf. Now I am the first to admit that the party system and the whips corrupt that principle - just as they corrupt every political system in practically every part of the world. But if your idea of democracy is that your candidate always wins and always does what you want then I am afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Other than closing schools what is the difference between what NS has just annouced for Scotland compared to Tier 4 in England?
Its depressingly hard to work out but in Scotland the religious exemption is gone. Travel for education is no longer possible, nor training. It's mainly schools tbh.
One thing that we must learn from this disaster is that attempts by politicians to fine tune restrictions and frequent changes of rules is hugely and completely counter-productive resulting in far less compliance and effectiveness. One can see the attraction, especially from the Treasury, but it is just not worth it.
The strange one about Scotland is kids are still able to mix in playgrounds outside of school. If kids are now being considered a primary route of transmission between families surely this is a rather dangerous loophole?
It's outdoors. Not so long close to the same people as when sat in a classroom.
Also, I doubt outdoor playgrounds are that popular in Scotland in January, anyway
The kids are made of hardy stuff up here. You'd be surprised.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
They've probably forgotten about the Scilly Isles and will have to rush out a statement at 2a.m.
I wonder if there is anyone on the Scilly Isles to enforce a lockdown. I was there a couple of years back and don't remember seeing a police station. I guess there must be one, but it can't be very big.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
Professor Shane Crotty (et al), who first spotted the cross-reactivity immediately penned an article emphasising that it was incredibly and implausibly unlikely that it would provide much, if any, discernible benefit, anyway.
Promptly ignored by that quack Yeadon and Toby Young's disciples, of course, so we shouldn't expect further evidence to erode the delusions.
What do they do when shipping to other countries with their own sales tax?
Note that some bike shops on the continent had already stopped shipping to the UK because our law said that they had to set up the front brakes on the right. This increased their overheads because the continental style is to have the front brake on the left.
eg https://www.bike-discount.de/en sold me a mountain bike last year but won't now, but they will send parts. I don't think that's necessarily down to Brexit.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.
And I suspect many on here know that.
More selfish than leaving towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit and dead grandparents (and, in lower numbers, parents) to the next and future generations?
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
But the "Brussels blame game" will be much less effective for HMG, and also much less true (because EU directives really will have no force any more, unless we want them to)
I know you despise Brexit, but disputing that it has significant democratic benefits ("sovereignty" if you like) is a game for fools. I do not dispute that Brexit will have some serious economic costs - it already has, and they will continue for some time.
We all had to make a complex, personal decision whether one outweighed the other.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
If Trump really was to arrive in Scotland evading lawyers this week, as per the latest febrile twitter rumour, just on the verge of much tougher lockdowns than Washington, it really would cap a bizarre year and one to forget.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
You are referring to all Governments of course. Whilst this Government is certainly worse and has some interesting new targets in the blame game, it is by no means alone in blaming something other than itself for its own failings.
Removing one obvious target for that - particularly one that often was at least partly responsible - seems a good thing to me.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
As ever the reason is simple, Airoprts , ports etc are all reserved powers to Westminster so she is not allowed to close them. Best she can do is ask police to do random checks on the land border between Scotland and England within the Scottish laws on travel and covid restrictions. Do you boys ever think before slagging off the Scottish government. RESERVED POWERS let it sink in
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.
And I suspect many on here know that.
More selfish than leaving towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit and dead grandparents (and, in lower numbers, parents) to the next and future generations?
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
Contrarian doesn't think anyone is actually dying of Covid.
It is an invented panic to control the population.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Good luck with that. All of our "recycling centres" or dumps will now be closed again for a month, possibly longer. Not ideal when you are moving house.
Ha I bet all you people who said Johnson would be following Sturgeon by 5pm tonight feel pretty fucking stupid now.
It seems we have two possibilities (i) Sturgeon is an indecisive idiot who nonetheless somehow has a mole deep within Downing Street enabling her to announce Johnson's restrictions as her own before they are announced in England and look like she is the one in control of the situation and decisive (ii) Johnson is the indecisive idiot
Occam's razor?
Or a third.
Officials discuss options behind the scenes and politicians announce changes when they've agreed them with their cabinets?
You think the cabinet get a say in decisions? So 1980s.....
"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
In the EU the executive is appointed by elected governments and approved by an elected parliament. I grant you not as direct by a long way as the American system but hardly not democracy.
The UK system which is considered a democracy the executive is appointed by a PM like the American system, but the PM is not directly elected like the USA system. He/She is elected by a subset of the elected members of parliament who are elected by a dubious voting system.
All of these systems are far from perfect, but I would suggest that it would be illogical to conclude in the same breath that 2 were democratic and 1 not which was my only argument. They are all democratic to some extent and all have flaws.
I would suggest you go and look at who is able to initiate legislation in the EU. It certainly isn't the elected MEPs.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
Other than closing schools what is the difference between what NS has just annouced for Scotland compared to Tier 4 in England?
Its depressingly hard to work out but in Scotland the religious exemption is gone. Travel for education is no longer possible, nor training. It's mainly schools tbh.
One thing that we must learn from this disaster is that attempts by politicians to fine tune restrictions and frequent changes of rules is hugely and completely counter-productive resulting in far less compliance and effectiveness. One can see the attraction, especially from the Treasury, but it is just not worth it.
The strange one about Scotland is kids are still able to mix in playgrounds outside of school. If kids are now being considered a primary route of transmission between families surely this is a rather dangerous loophole?
It's outdoors. Not so long close to the same people as when sat in a classroom.
Also, I doubt outdoor playgrounds are that popular in Scotland in January, anyway
The kids are made of hardy stuff up here. You'd be surprised.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
But the "Brussels blame game" will be much less effective for HMG, and also much less true (because EU directives really will have no force any more, unless we want them to)
I know you despise Brexit, but disputing that it has significant democratic benefits ("sovereignty" if you like) is a game for fools. I do not dispute that Brexit will have some serious economic costs - it already has, and they will continue for some time.
We all had to make a complex, personal decision whether one outweighed the other.
It's funny because Brexit actually benefits me personally as it makes our company more valuable because we are, outside of events, Brexit-proof and largely digital. Maybe I don't see the end of the Brussels blame game as a benefit because I never bought into it in the first place. It always seemed to me that immigrants, those on benefits, the BBC, teachers etc were the prime targets for government blame.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
It is illegal to travel from tier 4 to tier 3.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself there Malc. We always thought of your insults as being more teenage.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Interesting you pick out Jezza and not JRM for number of MPs attending parliament......
The reason I pick him out is because he keeps refusing to follow guidelines and advice. He has broken both the rules on numerous occasions and take little notice of guidance, and early on in the pandemic insisted on attending parliament in person.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
I thought Brexit as a subject was no more, has ceased to be, and bereft of life, it rests in peace.
It's not me who is CONSTANTLY bringing it up. You know I far prefer to talk about mass death and apocalypse.
It's just that the point being made is leaky.
If we were ruled by Brussels rather than Westminster there was no need to be scared of PM Corbyn, was there?
I think we were only at level 4 in March. Ergo restrictions need to be stricter than in March.
[[previous edit deleted as incorrect]] This was the new 5 level scale unveiled as we came out of lockdown in May We went into level 3.5. Level 5 was cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
Sadly looks like you were right, so the President remains appointed by backroom deals
Yep. The EU is a noble idea that has turned into a grotesque caricature of itself, and seems incapable of real reform. At least with Brexit (for all ITS faults) we will have a government that is no longer able to blame Brussels or hide behind "EU directives". It is up to us, whatever happens. That is another enormous benefit of Leaving.
The government will always blame others for the messes it creates. Off the top of my head: the BBC, the civil service, businesses, the courts, lawyers, immigrants, the EU (of course it will), Remoaners, liberal metropolitans, the Scots and the Irish. Many millions will cheer them on as they do this.
But the "Brussels blame game" will be much less effective for HMG, and also much less true (because EU directives really will have no force any more, unless we want them to)
I know you despise Brexit, but disputing that it has significant democratic benefits ("sovereignty" if you like) is a game for fools. I do not dispute that Brexit will have some serious economic costs - it already has, and they will continue for some time.
We all had to make a complex, personal decision whether one outweighed the other.
It's funny because Brexit actually benefits me personally as it makes our company more valuable because we are, outside of events, Brexit-proof and largely digital. Maybe I don't see the end of the Brussels blame game as a benefit because I never bought into it in the first place. It always seemed to me that immigrants, those on benefits, the BBC, teachers etc were the prime targets for government blame.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself there Malc. We always thought of your insults as being more teenage.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Good luck with that. All of our "recycling centres" or dumps will now be closed again for a month, possibly longer. Not ideal when you are moving house.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Good luck with that. All of our "recycling centres" or dumps will now be closed again for a month, possibly longer. Not ideal when you are moving house.
He did say commercial skips to be fair. Lockdown hopefully shouldn't affect that. THough I am sure you are quite right about the domestic waste dumps/recycling centres being closed.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.
Some of us saw the EU for what it was many years ago, non-democratic and incapable of reform- and the anti-democratic farce of Spitzenkandidat was mere confirmation of that truth, after the event of Brexit. There have been many other examples over the decades.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
Your argument was specifically about the failure to retain the Spitzencandidat system at the latest EU elections, which you claimed was "Why Brexit" in 2016. I merely pointed out that the timeline for that claim was implausible. If you were making a broader claim (ie this isn't "Why Brexit" but it is part of a pattern of behaviour that pre-dated the 2016 vote and explains Brexit) that is fine, but that wasn't the claim you made previously. Given that the EU had adopted the Spitzenkandidat process in 2014, prior to the Brexit vote, and appeared likely at that time to retain the system for future votes, it seems a stretch to bring this whole issue into the argument ex post. Indeed if I recall correctly the fact that the Spitzenkandidat process had been used and had given us a Commission president that we didn't like (Juncker) was the beef at that point (although since the Tories had taken themselves out of Juncker's centre-right grouping in order to caucus with a ragtag collection of neo-fascists as part of a prior bout of euro-petulance they couldn't really complain that the EPP had picked Juncker as its candidate). You should try to write more clearly in future, and avoid making personal attacks on people who disagree with you or point out the inconsistencies in your claims. FWIW I have never been to the Algarve and have no interest in retiring there or indeed anywhere else in the EU.
"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
Rather misses the point I was making. I gave an example, it was not supposed to be identical. I doubt there is one. No democracy is perfect and there are many different types, but to suggest we have a democracy and the EU doesn't was the point I was responding to.
We have a democracy. It isn't perfect. So does the EU. It also isn't perfect.
How is 'I have no control over who I elect not a great argument'. I am not alone in thinking FPTP is a very poor system which disenfranchises a significant number of the population.
You do have control over who you elect just as much as I do. You elect an individual constituency representative to work on your behalf. Now I am the first to admit that the party system and the whips corrupt that principle - just as they corrupt every political system in practically every part of the world. But if your idea of democracy is that your candidate always wins and always does what you want then I am afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'm not going to get into a FPTP debate, but I just don't. I am 66 and I could tell you before the election who was going to get elected everywhere I have lived beforehand even if they were a monkey. Their personal capabilities were irrelevant.
No I don't expect my candidate to win necessarily, but I would like a better representation of views and a less confrontational parliament and a constituency MP who actually took on my issues on (actually mine isn't too bad) which is a challenge if he is ideologically opposed to them, or even just plain too lazy, as I have no where to go with my gripe.
Interesting you pick out Jezza and not JRM for number of MPs attending parliament......
JRM could at least argue about his role requiring him or some such, though really in a full lockdown or equivalent I doubt it. But Corbyn is a nobody now.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
It is illegal to travel from tier 4 to tier 3.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
IS there any particular reason why Shetland is bad?!
Personally speaking, if I lived on a smallish island, like that - or the Scillies or Lewis or wherever - I would be furious that the local council didn't quarantine the place on March 1 2020.
I get that it is more difficult to close down an island as big and populous as Great Britain (but they should have tried) but Shetland should be a doddle. Test everyone who comes in and out. Quarantine. How hard can it be?
No I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.
And I suspect many on here know that.
More selfish than leaving towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit and dead grandparents (and, in lower numbers, parents) to the next and future generations?
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
Contrarian doesn't think anyone is actually dying of Covid.
It is an invented panic to control the population.
Wake up sheeple.
No its influenza that nobody is dying of any more, right?
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Good luck with that. All of our "recycling centres" or dumps will now be closed again for a month, possibly longer. Not ideal when you are moving house.
Fire out the back will soon solve that
Wouldn't want that with all the lead paint and metallic paint on the frames,. mind.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself, I mean your usual comments are usually 'stick your comments up your urchie you schemie shoes wearing tramp.'
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.
And I suspect many on here know that.
More selfish than leaving towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit and dead grandparents (and, in lower numbers, parents) to the next and future generations?
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
Contrarian doesn't think anyone is actually dying of Covid.
It is an invented panic to control the population.
Wake up sheeple.
If I were feeling malicious I would wonder if Contrarian is actually employed by the government to play devil's advocate.
Thereby implanting in everyone's mind the firm view that those opposed to government policy are in fact stark staring raving bollocking crazy.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
It doesn't sound too hopeful for your planned move RP. Or is that exempted?
Was an acceptable reason to travel last time. If there is a delay it will be because the old couple who are selling decide its too dangerous to hire the skip they were planning to fill with all their accumulated debris.
You could offer to deal with the junk for them? I would if I were you.
Yes, if they get arsey that will be the response. He used to run a picture framing business. In the last lockdown he cleared out their warehouse with the intention to liquidate the stock. When I went for a tour in October progress on that front had been slow. As well as the 6-bed former bank manager's house we are buying the former bank it is attached to. The bank, complete with its various large storerooms and both floors of the double-length garage were still rammed full of stock.
If need be leave whatever you can't sell and I will skip / burn them.
Good luck with that. All of our "recycling centres" or dumps will now be closed again for a month, possibly longer. Not ideal when you are moving house.
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself there Malc. We always thought of your insults as being more teenage.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.
Some of us saw the EU for what it was many years ago, non-democratic and incapable of reform- and the anti-democratic farce of Spitzenkandidat was mere confirmation of that truth, after the event of Brexit. There have been many other examples over the decades.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
Your argument was specifically about the failure to retain the Spitzencandidat system at the latest EU elections, which you claimed was "Why Brexit" in 2016. I merely pointed out that the timeline for that claim was implausible. If you were making a broader claim (ie this isn't "Why Brexit" but it is part of a pattern of behaviour that pre-dated the 2016 vote and explains Brexit) that is fine, but that wasn't the claim you made previously. Given that the EU had adopted the Spitzenkandidat process in 2014, prior to the Brexit vote, and appeared likely at that time to retain the system for future votes, it seems a stretch to bring this whole issue into the argument ex post. Indeed if I recall correctly the fact that the Spitzenkandidat process had been used and had given us a Commission president that we didn't like (Juncker) was the beef at that point (although since the Tories had taken themselves out of Juncker's centre-right grouping in order to caucus with a ragtag collection of neo-fascists as part of a prior bout of euro-petulance they couldn't really complain that the EPP had picked Juncker as its candidate). You should try to write more clearly in future, and avoid making personal attacks on people who disagree with you or point out the inconsistencies in your claims. FWIW I have never been to the Algarve and have no interest in retiring there or indeed anywhere else in the EU.
I suggest we let the argument drop, old bean. We will not persuade each other, and we risk boring everyone else.
This is one reason why I believe Brexit will vanish from the news, almost entirely, in the end. It has become very boring to most people.
I feel desperately sorry for the children of today.
Did you really enjoy school that much?
People who are 'serious' about Corona really are extremely flippant about the incredibly important issue of the education of the next generation.
A generation which will face enormous economic challenges, thanks to the actions of the previous ones.
There are costs to them not to be flippant about. It does not follow that no one has considered those costs and reluctantly concluded it is a least worsr option.
Sorry, but leaving absolutely everything....towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit, to the next and future generations is not the least worst option. It is the most completely selfish cowards option.
And I suspect many on here know that.
More selfish than leaving towering debt, smashed economy, educational deficit and dead grandparents (and, in lower numbers, parents) to the next and future generations?
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
Contrarian doesn't think anyone is actually dying of Covid.
It is an invented panic to control the population.
Wake up sheeple.
If I were feeling malicious I would wonder if Contrarian is actually employed by the government to play devil's advocate.
Thereby implanting in everyone's mind the firm view that those opposed to government policy are in fact stark staring raving bollocking crazy.
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.
Some of us saw the EU for what it was many years ago, non-democratic and incapable of reform- and the anti-democratic farce of Spitzenkandidat was mere confirmation of that truth, after the event of Brexit. There have been many other examples over the decades.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
Your argument was specifically about the failure to retain the Spitzencandidat system at the latest EU elections, which you claimed was "Why Brexit" in 2016. I merely pointed out that the timeline for that claim was implausible. If you were making a broader claim (ie this isn't "Why Brexit" but it is part of a pattern of behaviour that pre-dated the 2016 vote and explains Brexit) that is fine, but that wasn't the claim you made previously. Given that the EU had adopted the Spitzenkandidat process in 2014, prior to the Brexit vote, and appeared likely at that time to retain the system for future votes, it seems a stretch to bring this whole issue into the argument ex post. Indeed if I recall correctly the fact that the Spitzenkandidat process had been used and had given us a Commission president that we didn't like (Juncker) was the beef at that point (although since the Tories had taken themselves out of Juncker's centre-right grouping in order to caucus with a ragtag collection of neo-fascists as part of a prior bout of euro-petulance they couldn't really complain that the EPP had picked Juncker as its candidate). You should try to write more clearly in future, and avoid making personal attacks on people who disagree with you or point out the inconsistencies in your claims. FWIW I have never been to the Algarve and have no interest in retiring there or indeed anywhere else in the EU.
I suggest we let the argument drop, old bean. We will not persuade each other, and we risk boring everyone else.
This is one reason why I believe Brexit will vanish from the news, almost entirely, in the end. It has become very boring to most people.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
It is illegal to travel from tier 4 to tier 3.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
IS there any particular reason why Shetland is bad?!
Personally speaking, if I lived on a smallish island, like that - or the Scillies or Lewis or wherever - I would be furious that the local council didn't quarantine the place on March 1 2020.
I get that it is more difficult to close down an island as big and populous as Great Britain (but they should have tried) but Shetland should be a doddle. Test everyone who comes in and out. Quarantine. How hard can it be?
The twitter gab was that last week's Shetland outbreak originated with one couple returning with the plague. Grim if true.
8pm? So won't be in effect from midnight tonight. An additional day or two of delay where people set out to cram in all the things they won't be allowed to do.
As for travel in Scotland my understanding is that the entire mainland is Tier 4 so essential travel only. Easy for the police to enforce. What about the border? Can only find a few relevant traffic cams and the A68 and A1 look absolutely dead.
Checks should be doable: B7076 - close the road west of the M6 junction A74(M) - easy checkpoint Two minor roads to stop up A7 checkpoint Stop up the B6318 & 7 minor roads A68 checkpoint - admittedly Carter Bar isn't going to be a pleasant posting in winter but plenty of space Stop up the B6352, B6396, B6350 and a minor road, diverting all traffic towards A697 Coldstream checkpoint Stop up the B6470, B6461, A6105 A1 Lamberton checkpoint
The Fuzz have been very active around Coldstream already, less so at Lamberton.
The Carter Bar should take care of itself this evening...
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself there Malc. We always thought of your insults as being more teenage.
He seems to have found the Export cask strength Turnip Juice
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
It is illegal to travel from tier 4 to tier 3.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
IS there any particular reason why Shetland is bad?!
Personally speaking, if I lived on a smallish island, like that - or the Scillies or Lewis or wherever - I would be furious that the local council didn't quarantine the place on March 1 2020.
I get that it is more difficult to close down an island as big and populous as Great Britain (but they should have tried) but Shetland should be a doddle. Test everyone who comes in and out. Quarantine. How hard can it be?
Tbh, even Nicola is failing the border test. Why hasn't Scotland closed its airports and opened checkpoints into Scotland from England with rapid testing stations. Something like that would be perfectly reasonable at this time. It might even shock Westminster into acting, keeping the border with Scotland open is far more important than keeping the border open with RoW. The UK should be an impenetrable fortress at this point a year after we first realised this was going to be awful.
Scotland can't close the Airports.
The restrictions make it illegal to travel to the airport but she can't stop the planes. That's a UK competence.
Ah a bit like independence referenda are the competence of the UK government.
So why is Sturgeon likely to do one and not the other?
Is it she cares more about independence than Covid-19?
Oh dear , a 7 year old appears
Bit harsh on yourself there Malc. We always thought of your insults as being more teenage.
He seems to have found the Export cask strength Turnip Juice
Well between BRexit and lockdown it ain't going anywhere else right now.
So. If this is Tier 4 with schools closed, then that will be no change from the past 3 weeks for the vast majority of England then?
Pity the poor Isles of Scilly: Tier 1 --> Tier 4.
Or maybe they'll be left as proof that it isn't a national lockdown?
Islands in Scotland are still level 3 which I find slightly mystifying though I guess travelling to them from level 4 areas is going to be hellish hard. I think there was a flurry of cases in Shetland last week.
It is illegal to travel from tier 4 to tier 3.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
IS there any particular reason why Shetland is bad?!
Personally speaking, if I lived on a smallish island, like that - or the Scillies or Lewis or wherever - I would be furious that the local council didn't quarantine the place on March 1 2020.
I get that it is more difficult to close down an island as big and populous as Great Britain (but they should have tried) but Shetland should be a doddle. Test everyone who comes in and out. Quarantine. How hard can it be?
The twitter gab was that last week's outbreak originated with one couple returning with the plague. Grim if true.
Wouldn't want to be that couple, if they get named
I read today on the BBC that a bunch of Brits got stopped at Schiphol. One was on his way to a skiing holiday in Spain
How bewilderingly selfish, and stupid, do you have to be, to try and wander across Europe right now, to go on a skiing holiday??!!
Don't know what its like for you southerners but that would be a bit chilly up here right now. Our hills are covered in snow and our cul-de-sac is like a skating rink again today.
I'm a slightly-less-well-padded-but-still-bulky Midlander. I'm not nesh.
"Danish firm DFDS launch new direct cargo service between Ireland & France to bypass the UK. The first ship today carried over 100 trucks & the service is already over-subscribed. Hauliers say the route is longer but avoids Brexit red-tape they would otherwise experience on the UK route."
Suppose it will keep the queues down!
Keeps the traffic down on UK roads. No issue with that.
Well absolutely. I think I made that point, but doesn't it just maybe make you think 'well maybe it has cost and competitive issues for UK companies exporting and UK customers of EU products if Irish hauliers prefer a mega sea journey.
Marginally, so be it. We already have marginal cost issues by using a different currency but the benefits outweigh the costs.
Plus of course the Irish potentially need to do the paperwork twice, whereas the Brits only need to do it once.
I agree with all of your reply Philip except one. What are these benefits? I mean actual benefits not abstract ones Iike sovereignty. I can list a whole lot of benefits I have personally lost. I can not think of a single benefit I have gained.
You can now throw out (or elect), via the ballot box, all the people who make the crucial political decisions that govern your life.
Take the Covid vaccine. The UK government is entirely responsible for buying, distributing and injecting this stuff into our arms. If they fuck it up, vote them out. If they do well, re-elect them, should you so wish.
The EU however, via the Commission, decided to do an EU-wide scheme, launched on the same day, which some have found seriously flawed and laborious.
If you're an EU citizen angry about this, how do you democratically punish those responsible? You can't.
That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive. Our Parliament for the most part (except when hung) is pretty powerless.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things.
" I have no control over who I elect" is not a great argument. The rest of the arguments aren't much better.
Also "However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA."
Executive power in the USA is vested in the President. I believe they just had an election of some sort for him.
In the EU the executive is appointed by elected governments and approved by an elected parliament. I grant you not as direct by a long way as the American system but hardly not democracy.
The UK system which is considered a democracy the executive is appointed by a PM like the American system, but the PM is not directly elected like the USA system. He/She is elected by a subset of the elected members of parliament who are elected by a dubious voting system.
All of these systems are far from perfect, but I would suggest that it would be illogical to conclude in the same breath that 2 were democratic and 1 not which was my only argument. They are all democratic to some extent and all have flaws.
I would suggest you go and look at who is able to initiate legislation in the EU. It certainly isn't the elected MEPs.
Not sure of the point being made. If you are pointing out a difference between the US and EU position I agree, but as I have always said they are all different; all with strengths and weaknesses. I simply and repeatedly pointed out that it is wrong to say the EU is not democratic if in the same breath other flawed systems are considered democratic.
If not democratic would you consider the EU to be a dictatorship? (I would like to know @Leon view on that also.)
Ah, another COVID denier line of argument bites the dust. I wonder what they will pivot to next?
(I had a thought that maybe they will blame the new variant: perhaps we *do* have herd immunity to the original COVID, just like Gupta predicted, but not the new one. Herd immunity to that is, of course, just around the corner... Ugh, let's not sully our minds by thinking down to their level.)
"That is just utter nonsense. Firstly like many I have no control over who I elect and I did have a vote for the European parliament. The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed. However in many democracies the executive is appointed (eg USA, London Mayor) and monitored by the elected representatives. These are just different types of democracies and it is debatable that ours is superior. I think many would argue it is inferior at it nearly always results in what many call an elected dictatorship with conflicted roles between the executive and those elected to pass laws and monitor the executive.
So I have no power whatsoever to get rid of a Govt, but I have lost the right to do many things. Actual tangible things."
********
"The only difference between us and the EU was that our executive comes (largely but not exclusively eg Lords) from an elected parliament rather than being appointed"
I mean, listen to yourself. Jeez
Maybe it would be useful if you actually stated what was inaccurate in that statement. Do you think the USA is not a democracy? It has an appointed executive?
The Americans just kicked out President Trump. Thank F*ck. Because he's an awful president.
No European citizen will ever get the chance to throw out President von der Leyen. Or Charles Michel. Or any of the other four EU presidents. Or is it five? Ten? It is so easy to forget.
To be fair the Commission President is now supposed to come from the party with the largest number of elected MEPs in the European Parliament
No, not any more. You're talking of the Spitzenkandidat process, I believe. An attempt to make the EU a shade less undemocratic.
Trouble is, at the last go, the EU decided to just dump the Spitzenkandidat process, making the EU even less democratic again.
Was anyone consulted? As in, the people of Europe? No, of course not.
"It’s a Brussels murder mystery that would flummox even Hercule Poirot: Who killed the Spitzenkandidat?
"Accusations are flying over the death of the “lead candidate” system for choosing the president of the European Commission, the EU’s most powerful job. It’s a crime story that’s also a political drama — played out over multiple summits including a day-and-night marathon earlier this week — about how the European Union should be governed."
That, in a nutshell, is Why Brexit.
I doubt that the failure of EU leaders to adopt the Spitzenkandidat system in the wake of the 2019 European elections was a major factor in the 2016 Brexit referendum. So probably not "Why Brexit".
It was "Why Brexit" for a lot of brighter, more intelligent, well-informed people, so I understand why it did not impact you.
You'd have to be remarkably well-informed to have known in 2016 that the EU was going to drop the Spitzenkandidat system in 2019 having only adopted it in 2014.
Some of us saw the EU for what it was many years ago, non-democratic and incapable of reform- and the anti-democratic farce of Spitzenkandidat was mere confirmation of that truth, after the event of Brexit. There have been many other examples over the decades.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
Your argument was specifically about the failure to retain the Spitzencandidat system at the latest EU elections, which you claimed was "Why Brexit" in 2016. I merely pointed out that the timeline for that claim was implausible. If you were making a broader claim (ie this isn't "Why Brexit" but it is part of a pattern of behaviour that pre-dated the 2016 vote and explains Brexit) that is fine, but that wasn't the claim you made previously. Given that the EU had adopted the Spitzenkandidat process in 2014, prior to the Brexit vote, and appeared likely at that time to retain the system for future votes, it seems a stretch to bring this whole issue into the argument ex post. Indeed if I recall correctly the fact that the Spitzenkandidat process had been used and had given us a Commission president that we didn't like (Juncker) was the beef at that point (although since the Tories had taken themselves out of Juncker's centre-right grouping in order to caucus with a ragtag collection of neo-fascists as part of a prior bout of euro-petulance they couldn't really complain that the EPP had picked Juncker as its candidate). You should try to write more clearly in future, and avoid making personal attacks on people who disagree with you or point out the inconsistencies in your claims. FWIW I have never been to the Algarve and have no interest in retiring there or indeed anywhere else in the EU.
I suggest we let the argument drop, old bean. We will not persuade each other, and we risk boring everyone else.
This is one reason why I believe Brexit will vanish from the news, almost entirely, in the end. It has become very boring to most people.
I agree 100%
Perhaps. Though the stories about trades unions in the 1970s, for example, were a far more refined and less novel form of tedium, but eventually saw Labour out of power for a decade.
I wonder if Trump is planning to clear off after his rally today. If Britain in general and Scotland in particular locks down more than other countries, though, he would presumably have second thoughts.
Try again! I hope they arrest Trump and Melania upon touchdown for breaching Scottish travel restrictions. Yes they can land as thats a UK competency. But travel from Prestwick to a hotel in Turnberry for a holiday sounds like non-essential travel.
Are the press avoiding the airports question, because they all have at least one friend, colleague or family member currently abroad on holiday?
More likely cos they've a trip booked themselves. And don't forget the super rich. They pay good money to government policies which don't inconvenience them.
The last thing we need with a blank cheque for authoritarian powers is someone eager to actually use them. If that sort of authoritarian power is to be wielded it should be by someone reluctant to use it, doing so as a last resort because there is no alternative.
A 2% increase in tests delivers a 50% increase in positive results.
Fuuuuuuuuck.
Lets see shagger fuck it up tonight then. Instead of a national stay at home lockdown from midnight it will Tier 5 ramble waffle be responsible from Friday.
Comments
Ages 45-64 have 7-10 times as much likelihood of being hospitalised as dying.
They get hospitalised when a doctor believes they need it to pull through. Otherwise, in current circumstances, they'll get sent home.
When the hospitals are overwhelmed, we then find out how high the IFR goes for each age band without assistance. Spoiler: it's somewhere between the current IFR and the current hospitalisation rate, and likely closer to the latter than the former.
So - considerably higher.
https://twitter.com/hazydav/status/1346108846045941763
Is he going to follow and the other question is has there been a cobra meeting that has promoted today's changes
There's some pretty decent Roman stuff in southern Scotland, although Hadrian's Wall is of course more famous.
I think my favourite though was an awesome pun by a Scottish archaeologist, Gordon Maxwell, on the biggest mystery of the Flavian campaigns under Agricola - where did Mons Graupius take place?
He mischievously called his book 'A Battle Lost: Romans and Caledonians at Mons Graupius.'
The UK system which is considered a democracy the executive is appointed by a PM like the American system, but the PM is not directly elected like the USA system. He/She is elected by a subset of the elected members of parliament who are elected by a dubious voting system.
All of these systems are far from perfect, but I would suggest that it would be illogical to conclude in the same breath that 2 were democratic and 1 not which was my only argument. They are all democratic to some extent and all have flaws.
I realise this stuff is complex, when all you care about IS MY BLOODY RIGHT TO RETIRE TO THE ALGARVE, but do try.
2 - Are you still wittering on about the Imperial College model? When, ten months on, it's turned out to be pretty bloody close?
About 10% of us have been infected and 75,000 are dead. The model projected between 250,000 and 500,000 dead depending on our actions.
If anything, it's looking a bit over-optimistic right now.
https://saportareport.com/organizations-sue-georgia-secretary-of-state-over-purged-voter-rolls/uncategorized/raisa-habersham/
Promptly ignored by that quack Yeadon and Toby Young's disciples, of course, so we shouldn't expect further evidence to erode the delusions.
Note that some bike shops on the continent had already stopped shipping to the UK because our law said that they had to set up the front brakes on the right. This increased their overheads because the continental style is to have the front brake on the left.
eg https://www.bike-discount.de/en sold me a mountain bike last year but won't now, but they will send parts. I don't think that's necessarily down to Brexit.
Let it rip will trash the economy just as badly, if not worse (internationally, economic impact correlates with deaths more convincingly than inversely with deaths). Schools will close anyway if too many teachers are off sick and/or parents will refuse to send their children. Overwhelming the NHS will kill many not-infected through delayed/cancelled treatments (also happens if treatments are cancelled in lockdowns of course, which should be avoided as much as possible)
I know you despise Brexit, but disputing that it has significant democratic benefits ("sovereignty" if you like) is a game for fools. I do not dispute that Brexit will have some serious economic costs - it already has, and they will continue for some time.
We all had to make a complex, personal decision whether one outweighed the other.
Removing one obvious target for that - particularly one that often was at least partly responsible - seems a good thing to me.
Do you boys ever think before slagging off the Scottish government. RESERVED POWERS let it sink in
https://twitter.com/DoctorChrisVT/status/1346104040804016130?s=20
It is an invented panic to control the population.
Wake up sheeple.
I am worried Shetland is super fucked. Well see when the numbers are out tomorrow. I fear seriously grim figures.
If we were ruled by Brussels rather than Westminster there was no need to be scared of PM Corbyn, was there?
And yet.
This was the new 5 level scale unveiled as we came out of lockdown in May
We went into level 3.5.
Level 5 was cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria
Your argument was specifically about the failure to retain the Spitzencandidat system at the latest EU elections, which you claimed was "Why Brexit" in 2016. I merely pointed out that the timeline for that claim was implausible. If you were making a broader claim (ie this isn't "Why Brexit" but it is part of a pattern of behaviour that pre-dated the 2016 vote and explains Brexit) that is fine, but that wasn't the claim you made previously. Given that the EU had adopted the Spitzenkandidat process in 2014, prior to the Brexit vote, and appeared likely at that time to retain the system for future votes, it seems a stretch to bring this whole issue into the argument ex post. Indeed if I recall correctly the fact that the Spitzenkandidat process had been used and had given us a Commission president that we didn't like (Juncker) was the beef at that point (although since the Tories had taken themselves out of Juncker's centre-right grouping in order to caucus with a ragtag collection of neo-fascists as part of a prior bout of euro-petulance they couldn't really complain that the EPP had picked Juncker as its candidate).
You should try to write more clearly in future, and avoid making personal attacks on people who disagree with you or point out the inconsistencies in your claims. FWIW I have never been to the Algarve and have no interest in retiring there or indeed anywhere else in the EU.
No I don't expect my candidate to win necessarily, but I would like a better representation of views and a less confrontational parliament and a constituency MP who actually took on my issues on (actually mine isn't too bad) which is a challenge if he is ideologically opposed to them, or even just plain too lazy, as I have no where to go with my gripe.
Personally speaking, if I lived on a smallish island, like that - or the Scillies or Lewis or wherever - I would be furious that the local council didn't quarantine the place on March 1 2020.
I get that it is more difficult to close down an island as big and populous as Great Britain (but they should have tried) but Shetland should be a doddle. Test everyone who comes in and out. Quarantine. How hard can it be?
Thereby implanting in everyone's mind the firm view that those opposed to government policy are in fact stark staring raving bollocking crazy.
https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1346123711255080960
This is one reason why I believe Brexit will vanish from the news, almost entirely, in the end. It has become very boring to most people.
https://www.tiktok.com/@paulhutton88/video/6912108733392866562?lang=en
NSFW-ish.
Boris making himself a hostage to fortune (as usual).
surely.....
The Carter Bar should take care of itself this evening...
Perhaps they've been reading PB?
From April.
I read today on the BBC that a bunch of Brits got stopped at Schiphol. One was on his way to a skiing holiday in Spain
How bewilderingly selfish, and stupid, do you have to be, to try and wander across Europe right now, to go on a skiing holiday??!!
If not democratic would you consider the EU to be a dictatorship? (I would like to know @Leon view on that also.)
(I had a thought that maybe they will blame the new variant: perhaps we *do* have herd immunity to the original COVID, just like Gupta predicted, but not the new one. Herd immunity to that is, of course, just around the corner... Ugh, let's not sully our minds by thinking down to their level.)
--AS
Though the stories about trades unions in the 1970s, for example, were a far more refined and less novel form of tedium, but eventually saw Labour out of power for a decade.
There won't be a second postponement, the Games will just be abandoned. Very sad.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/04/suga-considers-new-state-of-emergency-for-tokyo-amid-covid-resurgence
And in the meantime in Wales his labour colleague Drakeford is as of 2 hours ago refusing to close schools
BBC News - Covid: Closing schools in Wales a last resort, says health minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55524150
Lock Him Up.
And don't forget the super rich. They pay good money to government policies which don't inconvenience them.
The last thing we need with a blank cheque for authoritarian powers is someone eager to actually use them. If that sort of authoritarian power is to be wielded it should be by someone reluctant to use it, doing so as a last resort because there is no alternative.
the vaccines....
they are our way out.....
Philip said.....
Fuuuuuuuuck.
Lets see shagger fuck it up tonight then. Instead of a national stay at home lockdown from midnight it will Tier 5 ramble waffle be responsible from Friday.