In a Tweet how Johnson’s handling of the Christmas lockdown exposes his big weakness – politicalbett
"Johnson’s problem isn’t that he gives way at the first opportunity but that he gives way at the last opportunity" | writes @RossjournoClark https://t.co/ohzD5dLMe4
Comments
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first.0
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Bloody hell....adding 0.4 to R apparently was the low end of the estimate.
Documents discussed by government advisers on Friday show 0.4 to be at the lower end of the estimate
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-reports-highest-daily-increase-in-cases-as-concerns-grow-over-new-virus-strain-121686870 -
I need to change my username to LockdownNowHorseBattery0
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BoZo is a Cargo Cult Churchill.
He makes the speeches. He wrote the book. He would even smoke the cigars.
But somehow he is still losing the war.
He hasn't figured out you also need to do the leadership part...5 -
Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with cases and hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise to the same extent as all these other factors, based on the previous pattern of the virus, and they haven't as yet.0
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That tweet makes no sense.
Would they rather he gives way at the first opportunity? That was Theresa May's fault in their eyes wasn't it?
If giving way at the last opportunity is a problem - should he be Mummy Bear, giving way at just the right mid-point? Decided how?
Or should he maybe never give way? Press on regardless as the deaths pile up?
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.1 -
That tweet is a good example of how less can be more. Evisceration in one sentence.
Meanwhile EU leaders meet tomorrow to discuss banning travellers to and from the UK. The convergence with the end of Brexit transition is quite eerie.0 -
Somebody will need to explain to me how it can add a constant value to R. Surely there's a different increase when spreading freely or when under lockdown. The 70% increase on R seems more plausible.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell....adding 0.4 to R apparently was the low end of the estimate.
Documents discussed by government advisers on Friday show 0.4 to be at the lower end of the estimate
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-reports-highest-daily-increase-in-cases-as-concerns-grow-over-new-virus-strain-12168687
In any case, it's the exponential growth during lockdown light I find the most scary bit in that article. We haven't got much more than shutting the schools left in the armoury.0 -
Travellers book last-minute Eurostar tickets out of the UK
A long line of passengers formed inside St Pancras station in central London on Sunday.
A 23-year-old Frenchman, Francois, said: "I know that it's not really good to leave and go back to France. I haven't seen my family for four months and a half.
"I tried to isolate myself as much as possible.
"I booked my train this morning, not really reasonable because of the evolution of the virus.
"It's a pretty personal choice, I don't feel proud about that."0 -
Being criticized by Telegraph simpletons who don't want any public health measures at all is a weakness now?0
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My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.1 -
That fact that over twice as many deaths were reported this Sunday as last Sunday is an indication that gloom is, unfortunately, justified.WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors - they haven't as yet.
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The article does identify the political problem with folding late:MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
Would they rather he gives way at the first opportunity? That was Theresa May's fault in their eyes wasn't it?
If giving way at the last opportunity is a problem - should he be Mummy Bear, giving way at just the right mid-point? Decided how?
Or should he maybe never give way? Press on regardless as the deaths pile up?
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.
It keeps leaving Johnson in an unfortunate time zone: three days behind Sir Keir Starmer.0 -
Even The Telegraph have figured out BoZo is fucking useless, but apparently you haven't.MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
Strike while the iron is hot.
The early bird catches the worm.
There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.
BoZo misses every possible chance to do the right thing at the right time, and endlessly does the wrong thing at the worst possible moment.
That's what it means...0 -
I would guess they mean to base value of the R value, which is what ~3-4 for COVID.Gaussian said:
Somebody will need to explain to me how it can add a constant value to R. Surely there's a different increase when spreading freely or when under lockdown. The 70% increase on R seems more plausible.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell....adding 0.4 to R apparently was the low end of the estimate.
Documents discussed by government advisers on Friday show 0.4 to be at the lower end of the estimate
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-reports-highest-daily-increase-in-cases-as-concerns-grow-over-new-virus-strain-12168687
In any case, it's the exponential growth during lockdown light I find the most scary bit in that article. We haven't got much more than shutting the schools left in the armoury.0 -
What time period does each of those figures cover ?FeersumEnjineeya said:
That fact that twice as many deaths were reported this Sunday as last Sunday is an indication that gloom is, unfortunately, justified.WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors - they haven't as yet.
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Journalists and tweets are a marriage made in hell.2
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All gone Pete Tong. The shape of a pear.
Depressed.1 -
Now, about that ‘Captain Hindsight’ nickname...DecrepiterJohnL said:
The article does identify the political problem with folding late:MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
Would they rather he gives way at the first opportunity? That was Theresa May's fault in their eyes wasn't it?
If giving way at the last opportunity is a problem - should he be Mummy Bear, giving way at just the right mid-point? Decided how?
Or should he maybe never give way? Press on regardless as the deaths pile up?
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.
It keeps leaving Johnson in an unfortunate time zone: three days behind Sir Keir Starmer.1 -
Are we convinced it’s just the strain of virus? Not the determination to come out of 2.0 beginning of December, determination to have Christmas and shop for it, to go racing and other sport stadiums, shift all the students around under a voluntary testing that’s only 50% accurate anyway, with no checks or restrictions at airports, etc etc not built into the spike just a teeny bit?WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with cases and hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors, based on the previous pattern of the virus - they haven't as yet.
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Twitter is a total cesspool but it does occasionally come in handy for something. A Twitter feed led me to this, issued by the ONS on Friday:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland18december2020#age-differences
Scroll down to section 7, where the ONS estimates that the percentage or people infected with Covid by age group peaks amongst school years 7-11, with the second highest group being young and very young children (primary and below.)
It does not automatically follow that schools are major drivers of the spread of infection to the rest of the community - it may be that children are very good at passing the disease around themselves but somehow less infectious to adults - but unless or until there's strong evidence to confirm this, then much the best thing would be to shutter the schools until further notice.0 -
A single day, obviously. But the underlying trend has also been upwards for the past few days. Deaths are clearly already rising.WhisperingOracle said:
What time period does each of those figures cover ?FeersumEnjineeya said:
That fact that twice as many deaths were reported this Sunday as last Sunday is an indication that gloom is, unfortunately, justified.WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors - they haven't as yet.
From https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths:
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But it isn’t going to happen. Nick Gibb fooling himself that his penis is large enough is more important than epidemiology.Black_Rook said:Twitter is a total cesspool but it does occasionally come in handy for something. A Twitter feed led me to this, issued by the ONS on Friday:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland18december2020#age-differences
Scroll down to section 7, where the ONS estimates that the percentage or people infected with Covid by age group peaks amongst school years 7-11, with the second highest group being young and very young children (primary and below.)
It does not automatically follow that schools are major drivers of the spread of infection to the rest of the community - it may be that children are very good at passing the disease around themselves but somehow less infectious to adults - but unless or until there's strong evidence to confirm this, then much the best thing would be to shutter the schools until further notice.0 -
It makes every sense. The point, made with beautiful simplicity, is that Johnson dithers. He is indecisive. He wanted people to make their own choice about Christmas rather than make it himself which is his frigging job in the midst of a pandemic and being privy to the inside information. He hates taking unpopular decisions because he's a song and dance man who likes to trip the light fantastic. The best place for him.MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.
I'm sorry you don't understand that.
And was it you who criticised the House of Commons Select Committee this morning for daring to do their job and raise questions about the Brexit negotiations?0 -
I don't want to underplay the seriousness of the situation, obviously, but a doubling from last Sunday to this Sunday just wasn't at all what I had understood from Malmesbury's graph. The question of timing and what's included seems quite complicated.
The graph below also seems to point to a recent flattening in the rate of increase of deaths, rather than acceleration, doesn't it ?
To be clear, I'm not suggesting everyone bury their head in the sand, just trying to observe anything usefully positive.0 -
Those with plans to fly home to Blighty for Christmas may be a bit buggered.
Our niece is due to return from Australia this week. She's been there since Feb.0 -
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Happy to take you up on that one. Let's put a timeline and some terms on it though.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
I bet govt will have announced school closures for in-person teaching in England by 1st Feb.
Seem fair? Missing any obvious ambiguities?0 -
I think it's both. Without the new strain, the rise might have been similar to what it was in Wales at around 1.5x week. With the new strain, it's above 2x per week.gealbhan said:
Are we convinced it’s just the strain of virus? Not the determination to come out of 2.0 beginning of December, determination to have Christmas and shop for it, to go racing and other sport stadiums, shift all the students around under a voluntary testing that’s only 50% accurate anyway, with no checks or restrictions at airports, etc etc not built into the spike just a teeny bit?WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with cases and hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors, based on the previous pattern of the virus - they haven't as yet.
Obviously though, it would be the best late Christmas present ever if that turns out to be wrong and London case numbers fall off a cliff when today's lockdown makes it into the case numbers after New Year.0 -
The last PMQs Johnson did was an utter disgrace.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The article does identify the political problem with folding late:MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
Would they rather he gives way at the first opportunity? That was Theresa May's fault in their eyes wasn't it?
If giving way at the last opportunity is a problem - should he be Mummy Bear, giving way at just the right mid-point? Decided how?
Or should he maybe never give way? Press on regardless as the deaths pile up?
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.
It keeps leaving Johnson in an unfortunate time zone: three days behind Sir Keir Starmer.
He could at least tried to have warned about the decision he might be about to take.
Which would have made him more credible rather than playing a game of cheap shots in a national crisis.4 -
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
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Insofar as we can tell from what has been reported and stated by the Government, the key thing here is indeed the emergence of a more infectious strain of the virus. Now, it would be a huge relief if the new strain turned out to be less lethal as well as more transmissible, although this wouldn't do anything to get all of us as a society out of the deeper and deeper mess into which we are sinking. Deaths may very well go up regardless if many more cases occur in the first place, and even if deaths decline very significantly it won't do much to stop the hospitals from being swamped. Every patient sick enough to end up needing hospital treatment fills another bed, regardless of whether they're moderately ill or on a ventilator.gealbhan said:
Are we convinced it’s just the strain of virus? Not the determination to come out of 2.0 beginning of December, determination to have Christmas and shop for it, to go racing and other sport stadiums, shift all the students around under a voluntary testing that’s only 50% accurate anyway, with no checks or restrictions at airports, etc etc not built into the spike just a teeny bit?WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with cases and hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors, based on the previous pattern of the virus - they haven't as yet.
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Well, the Brexiteers wanted us to go it alone.
Be careful what you wish for.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/dec/20/coronavirus-live-news-nsw-premier-to-provide-update-on-sydney-restrictions-as-northern-beaches-locked-down-uk-tightens-christmas-rules
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Another alternative would be to divide school populations in half, and have everyone on half shifts - fortnight by fortnight. Would make social distancing easier, significantly reduce transmission, and try to ensure some normality of education. Would also be very hard on friendships, but less so than complete shuttering.Black_Rook said:Twitter is a total cesspool but it does occasionally come in handy for something. A Twitter feed led me to this, issued by the ONS on Friday:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland18december2020#age-differences
Scroll down to section 7, where the ONS estimates that the percentage or people infected with Covid by age group peaks amongst school years 7-11, with the second highest group being young and very young children (primary and below.)
It does not automatically follow that schools are major drivers of the spread of infection to the rest of the community - it may be that children are very good at passing the disease around themselves but somehow less infectious to adults - but unless or until there's strong evidence to confirm this, then much the best thing would be to shutter the schools until further notice.0 -
Yes it was appalling.Yorkcity said:
The last PMQs Johnson did was an utter disgrace.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The article does identify the political problem with folding late:MarqueeMark said:That tweet makes no sense.
Would they rather he gives way at the first opportunity? That was Theresa May's fault in their eyes wasn't it?
If giving way at the last opportunity is a problem - should he be Mummy Bear, giving way at just the right mid-point? Decided how?
Or should he maybe never give way? Press on regardless as the deaths pile up?
It's a vacuous piece of writing. It makes no sense.
It keeps leaving Johnson in an unfortunate time zone: three days behind Sir Keir Starmer.
He could at least tried to have warned about the decision he might be about to take.
Which would have made him more credible rather than playing a game of cheap shots in a national crisis.2 -
Schools here are due to start the spring term on the 4th of January, so in line with the Telegraph article in the header, that Boris caves at the last moment, we can expect postponement to be announced on the 3rd. We already have been told the government will not be revisiting tiers until 30th December so that fits nicely.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.0 -
People have been out shopping, pubbing with their new mate Scotch Egg, been into sport stadiums (did it look that distanced in the stands to you), public gyms, public johns, travelling to London and back, mass maskless rallies, emptying student halls back into the shires, all this passes as good solid lockdown?Gaussian said:
Somebody will need to explain to me how it can add a constant value to R. Surely there's a different increase when spreading freely or when under lockdown. The 70% increase on R seems more plausible.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell....adding 0.4 to R apparently was the low end of the estimate.
Documents discussed by government advisers on Friday show 0.4 to be at the lower end of the estimate
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-reports-highest-daily-increase-in-cases-as-concerns-grow-over-new-virus-strain-12168687
In any case, it's the exponential growth during lockdown light I find the most scary bit in that article. We haven't got much more than shutting the schools left in the armoury.1 -
Not good that they didn't fall anywhere near as far as cases did.FeersumEnjineeya said:
A single day, obviously. But the underlying trend has also been upwards for the past few days. Deaths are clearly already rising.WhisperingOracle said:
What time period does each of those figures cover ?FeersumEnjineeya said:
That fact that twice as many deaths were reported this Sunday as last Sunday is an indication that gloom is, unfortunately, justified.WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors - they haven't as yet.
From https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths:0 -
I guess 'personal choice' and 'selfish choice' translate to the same in French.FrancisUrquhart said:Travellers book last-minute Eurostar tickets out of the UK
A long line of passengers formed inside St Pancras station in central London on Sunday.
A 23-year-old Frenchman, Francois, said: "I know that it's not really good to leave and go back to France. I haven't seen my family for four months and a half.
"I tried to isolate myself as much as possible.
"I booked my train this morning, not really reasonable because of the evolution of the virus.
"It's a pretty personal choice, I don't feel proud about that."0 -
Amusing. But even if the Conservative MPs are eager to get rid of Mr Johnson for someone more up to the task, that does demand that one of their number needs to be up for giving it a go.
Who is that likely to be, at this juncture?
Good evening, everybody.0 -
Specifically, Johnson is a procrastinating risk-taker. Which is a contradiction, and definitely not a good combination in a leader.
He doesn't go all-in on a strategy that could win big, nor is he steady-as-you-go-we-will-get-there-in-the-end. Instead you end up with chaos to no effect.4 -
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Not sure "incoming" is the appropriate term.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.1 -
And what would their alternative plan be?AnneJGP said:Amusing. But even if the Conservative MPs are eager to get rid of Mr Johnson for someone more up to the task, that does demand that one of their number needs to be up for giving it a go.
Who is that likely to be, at this juncture?
Good evening, everybody.1 -
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I would make it the 15th Jan, but I’m open to discussions. The reason is I’m fairly confident if we get past the first week they will again be reluctant to admit failure.rkrkrk said:
Happy to take you up on that one. Let's put a timeline and some terms on it though.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
I bet govt will have announced school closures for in-person teaching in England by 1st Feb.
Seem fair? Missing any obvious ambiguities?0 -
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.0 -
The suspension of freight is unpresendented. Nobody did it in March and Germany's restrictions explicitly exclude freight and things like medical personnel.0
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In the current context, that is quite literally one of the maddest statements I've ever seen by any MP for decades.Scott_xP said:0 -
Not going to make it easy for the vaccine to come in from Belgium.FrancisUrquhart said:The suspension of freight is unpresendented. Nobody did it in March and Germany's restrictions explicitly exclude freight and things like medical personnel.
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I'll happily bet with you - proceeds to PB funds.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
But what is the bet? Odds may vary!
"UK government (England) to not introduce further curtailment of school hours"?
"UK government (England) to not indefinitely close any schools for covid reasons"?
There has to be a timeline too.
You choose the terms - at evens, and then I'll choose the side. Fair enough?
I'll happily also give a tenner to PB funds anyway so that I in fact can't win, and I've seen the state of Mike's suits.
These tricky definitions were of course discussed a day or so ago by Mr Meeks.
Make the best definition you can of the bet.0 -
Except you can imagine the PM repeating it at the despatch box.WhisperingOracle said:That is quite literally one of the maddest statements I've seen by any MP for decades.
That is how deep we are in right now0 -
We are absolutely fucked. Backlog already huge + this + brexit. This will all end in tears and government to blame. Headbangers like Jenkyns sum it all upWhisperingOracle said:
That is quite literally one of the maddest statements I've seen by any MP for decades.Scott_xP said:2 -
I predicted a national lockdown to be announced on Friday 8th January some weeks ago, but I think you may be nearer the mark. The sensible thing would be to just shut the damned schools down, but this Government has a long established history of being stubborn and thick as shit until forced by events.ydoethur said:
I would make it the 15th Jan, but I’m open to discussions. The reason is I’m fairly confident if we get past the first week they will again be reluctant to admit failure.rkrkrk said:
Happy to take you up on that one. Let's put a timeline and some terms on it though.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
I bet govt will have announced school closures for in-person teaching in England by 1st Feb.
Seem fair? Missing any obvious ambiguities?
They've made so much play now of in-person education being so very, very important that it must be kept open at all costs that to shut it down again would be the final admission of their impotence and failure. Odds are it'll take just enough time for them to throw in the towel that the new variant will have been thoroughly and evenly spread over every community in the land by the time that they do it.1 -
The bet I am offering is that the government will not announce any closure of schools or reduction in those permitted to attend prior to the 15th Jan, although @rkrkrk suggests 1st Feb.Omnium said:
I'll happily bet with you - proceeds to PB funds.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
But what is the bet? Odds may vary!
"UK government (England) to not introduce further curtailment of school hours"?
"UK government (England) to not indefinitely close any schools for covid reasons"?
There has to be a timeline too.
You choose the terms - at evens, and then I'll choose the side. Fair enough?
I'll happily also give a tenner to PB funds anyway so that I in fact can't win, and I've seen the state of Mike's suits.
These tricky definitions were of course discussed a day or so ago by Mr Meeks.
Make the best definition you can of the bet.0 -
You must have a vivid imagination given it lacks hesitations, random pauses and ‘um, er’ sounds, and it’s really hard to imagine a Johnson statement without them.Scott_xP said:
Except you can imagine the PM repeating it at the despatch box.WhisperingOracle said:That is quite literally one of the maddest statements I've seen by any MP for decades.
That is how deep we are in right now0 -
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.1 -
It looks like if it can go wrong it will go wrong, this looks extremely nasty, the cumulative effects so close to 1/1/2021 with ports already over burdened is going to take the UK into uncharted territory. Some of it is of the governments own making but a lot is ‘events’ who would be the best cinc to manage this? Ken Clarke?0
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It’s funny. I read that same link and the key thing that jumps out at me is that by vaccinating all over 75 year olds, we can knock covid hospital admissions down to the ground and wipe maybe 2/3rds off covid deaths.Black_Rook said:Twitter is a total cesspool but it does occasionally come in handy for something. A Twitter feed led me to this, issued by the ONS on Friday:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland18december2020#age-differences
Scroll down to section 7, where the ONS estimates that the percentage or people infected with Covid by age group peaks amongst school years 7-11, with the second highest group being young and very young children (primary and below.)
It does not automatically follow that schools are major drivers of the spread of infection to the rest of the community - it may be that children are very good at passing the disease around themselves but somehow less infectious to adults - but unless or until there's strong evidence to confirm this, then much the best thing would be to shutter the schools until further notice.
I categorically do not read that link and think “I know what’s a good idea, closing schools”.
Just think for a minute how selfish that line of thinking is, especially when combined with the £400bn of debt we’re writing this year.0 -
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.0 -
Bloody Hell, El Salvador thinks we are too dangerous.
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1340732361412100097?s=190 -
It will be like the average French lorry drivers’ strike on speed, won’t it?DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.0 -
I'm with @MaxPB. We need totaldixiedean said:All gone Pete Tong. The shape of a pear.
Depressed.warvaccine deployment and we need it yesterday.
Get Dominic Cummings in charge of it in his command centre for all I care but it must be the number 1 priority, overruling everything else temporarily - civil liberties, property rights, everything.0 -
On or before Sunday 24th Jan compromise.ydoethur said:
I would make it the 15th Jan, but I’m open to discussions. The reason is I’m fairly confident if we get past the first week they will again be reluctant to admit failure.rkrkrk said:
Happy to take you up on that one. Let's put a timeline and some terms on it though.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
I bet govt will have announced school closures for in-person teaching in England by 1st Feb.
Seem fair? Missing any obvious ambiguities?
We should probably have some kind of scale of school closures in mind.
I'd guess at 200+ schools as reasonable?0 -
Good evening.AnneJGP said:Amusing. But even if the Conservative MPs are eager to get rid of Mr Johnson for someone more up to the task, that does demand that one of their number needs to be up for giving it a go.
Who is that likely to be, at this juncture?
Good evening, everybody.
I think it would have to be Jeremy Hunt in the current circumstances.0 -
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.1 -
Off Topic - Some good news
"the world is in the process of moving on from fossil fuels"
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/12/20/coal-continues-to-take-it-on-the-chin-as-investors-flee/0 -
If this isn't turned around pretty rapidly, I'm afraid to say we may well see food shortages.0
-
At least with the new variant we could have herd immunity by sometime in mid January, without even trying.0
-
My youngest is stressed about attending school. Every week, he hears of pupils and their families testing positive and is worried about infecting his parents. His mental health has noticeably improved since they broke up.
The idea schools are open for the sake of kids' mental health is another lazy assertion which ought to be challenged.
For some it will be good, some bad.1 -
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.0 -
...we could have extended transition period. Hey, we could have even given businesses some certainty instead of flirting with no deal. But govt decided to tackle unprecedented pandemic and no deal at the same timenichomar said:It looks like if it can go wrong it will go wrong, this looks extremely nasty, the cumulative effects so close to 1/1/2021 with ports already over burdened is going to take the UK into uncharted territory. Some of it is of the governments own making but a lot is ‘events’ who would be the best cinc to manage this? Ken Clarke?
0 -
Problem at the moment is there isn't the supply. Not only Pfizer, but AZ ballsed up manufacturing of Oxford vaccine, so even if it is approved in a few days, they don't have the supply they previously claimed would be ready come.the winter.Gallowgate said:
I'm with @MaxPB. We need totaldixiedean said:All gone Pete Tong. The shape of a pear.
Depressed.warvaccine deployment and we need it yesterday.
Get Dominic Cummings in charge of it in his command centre for all I care but it must be the number 1 priority, overruling everything else temporarily - civil liberties, property rights, everything.0 -
We need a cunning plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.2 -
It really is as it will not only affect French imports but Spanish. Italian and most of all Irish freight through HolyheadWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.1 -
Unfortunately the No dealers are seeing this as a fabulous opportunity. They are going to get all the consequences of no deal, and they will be able to blame it almost entirely on COVID.Razedabode said:
...we could have extended transition period. Hey, we could have even given businesses some certainty instead of flirting with no deal. But govt decided to tackle unprecedented pandemic and no deal at the same timenichomar said:It looks like if it can go wrong it will go wrong, this looks extremely nasty, the cumulative effects so close to 1/1/2021 with ports already over burdened is going to take the UK into uncharted territory. Some of it is of the governments own making but a lot is ‘events’ who would be the best cinc to manage this? Ken Clarke?
0 -
I’m happy to agree on the date. I wouldn’t agree on the scale because one thing I think will happen is that the BS on not isolating all students in a class plus those who’ve taught them will go. Which means many schools will have to shut by default anyway. If the government’s own regulations had been observed by them in school settings, around 60% of staff at my school - including me - would have been isolating in the first half of November.rkrkrk said:
On or before Sunday 24th Jan compromise.ydoethur said:
I would make it the 15th Jan, but I’m open to discussions. The reason is I’m fairly confident if we get past the first week they will again be reluctant to admit failure.rkrkrk said:
Happy to take you up on that one. Let's put a timeline and some terms on it though.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
I bet govt will have announced school closures for in-person teaching in England by 1st Feb.
Seem fair? Missing any obvious ambiguities?
We should probably have some kind of scale of school closures in mind.
I'd guess at 200+ schools as reasonable?
So I suggest the following wording:
‘The government to announce a closure of schools in any defined tier for epidemiological reasons on or before 24th January.’
If they do, I pay OGH £10. If they don’t, you do instead.
Happy with that? If not, happy to keep negotiating. (Perhaps we should replace Lord Frost
) 0 -
We already have a punning clan on hereFoxy said:
We need a cunning plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.5 -
My youngest grandson (6) said to medixiedean said:My youngest is stressed about attending school. Every week, he hears of pupils and their families testing positive and is worried about infecting his parents. His mental health has noticeably improved since they broke up.
The idea schools are open for the sake of kids' mental health is another lazy assertion which ought to be challenged.
For some it will be good, some bad.
'Papa, if I get a cold I will be ok but if I get covid I will die'
Makes you weep1 -
So a tenner then on your terms?ydoethur said:
The bet I am offering is that the government will not announce any closure of schools or reduction in those permitted to attend prior to the 15th Jan, although @rkrkrk suggests 1st Feb.Omnium said:
I'll happily bet with you - proceeds to PB funds.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
But what is the bet? Odds may vary!
"UK government (England) to not introduce further curtailment of school hours"?
"UK government (England) to not indefinitely close any schools for covid reasons"?
There has to be a timeline too.
You choose the terms - at evens, and then I'll choose the side. Fair enough?
I'll happily also give a tenner to PB funds anyway so that I in fact can't win, and I've seen the state of Mike's suits.
These tricky definitions were of course discussed a day or so ago by Mr Meeks.
Make the best definition you can of the bet.
Loser just pays a tenner to PB?
(Let's narrow it down to the government in Westminster to make it clearer anyway, and in your favour)
The bet is sealed assuming you agree as to the above. I'll also agree to you being the arbiter of win/lose.
It'll be interesting to see what the wrinkles might be on 15th Jan.
0 -
The thing is ..all this ban on travel in response to mutant covid should have been there all along (obviously excluding freight).3
-
Since it was flagged up on here that you are PBs arch doom and gloomster I can’t read your posts without seeing sadness from Inside Out.Black_Rook said:
Insofar as we can tell from what has been reported and stated by the Government, the key thing here is indeed the emergence of a more infectious strain of the virus. Now, it would be a huge relief if the new strain turned out to be less lethal as well as more transmissible, although this wouldn't do anything to get all of us as a society out of the deeper and deeper mess into which we are sinking. Deaths may very well go up regardless if many more cases occur in the first place, and even if deaths decline very significantly it won't do much to stop the hospitals from being swamped. Every patient sick enough to end up needing hospital treatment fills another bed, regardless of whether they're moderately ill or on a ventilator.gealbhan said:
Are we convinced it’s just the strain of virus? Not the determination to come out of 2.0 beginning of December, determination to have Christmas and shop for it, to go racing and other sport stadiums, shift all the students around under a voluntary testing that’s only 50% accurate anyway, with no checks or restrictions at airports, etc etc not built into the spike just a teeny bit?WhisperingOracle said:Re; the discussion in the previous thread, the grim reality seems to be that we will know within a week to ten days how potent the current strain is. If deaths don't rise in line with cases and hospitalisations, which I know would be a bit of surprise, I expect that would point to something less gloomy. So far deaths are only predicted to rise in line with all these other factors, based on the previous pattern of the virus - they haven't as yet.
https://www.clipartkey.com/view/bhmowm_sadness-clipart-inside-out-sadness-png/0 -
Fresh food crisis within days?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It really is as it will not only affect French imports but Spanish. Italian and most of all Irish freight through HolyheadWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.
1 -
Blackadder? I’d settle for Baldrick. At least he *had* a fecking plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.1 -
In other news, Wetherspoons have put on quite a spectacle in Morpeth, Northumberland.
0 -
Ba boom, Tish!nichomar said:
We already have a punning clan on hereFoxy said:
We need a cunning plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.0 -
What an appalling Christmas.rottenborough said:
Fresh food crisis within days?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It really is as it will not only affect French imports but Spanish. Italian and most of all Irish freight through HolyheadWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.
At least Dickens would have understood it, which is the smallest comfort.0 -
If only the world had done this to China in January. Oh well.0
-
Should we immediate vaccinate cross channel lorry drivers?WhisperingOracle said:If this isn't turned around pretty rapidly, I'm afraid to say we may well see food shortages.
0 -
I fear you are rightalex_ said:
Unfortunately the No dealers are seeing this as a fabulous opportunity. They are going to get all the consequences of no deal, and they will be able to blame it almost entirely on COVID.Razedabode said:
...we could have extended transition period. Hey, we could have even given businesses some certainty instead of flirting with no deal. But govt decided to tackle unprecedented pandemic and no deal at the same timenichomar said:It looks like if it can go wrong it will go wrong, this looks extremely nasty, the cumulative effects so close to 1/1/2021 with ports already over burdened is going to take the UK into uncharted territory. Some of it is of the governments own making but a lot is ‘events’ who would be the best cinc to manage this? Ken Clarke?
0 -
I think that we currently have Hugh Laurie's Prince George at the helm.ydoethur said:
Blackadder? I’d settle for Baldrick. At least he *had* a fecking plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.4 -
I'm guessing you don't run a business...CorrectHorseBattery said:I need to change my username to LockdownNowHorseBattery
0 -
I’ll accept that, separately from the bet I’m negotiating with @rkrkrk, but if you want to come in on whatever we agree later you’re welcome to as far as I’m concerned.Omnium said:
So a tenner then on your terms?ydoethur said:
The bet I am offering is that the government will not announce any closure of schools or reduction in those permitted to attend prior to the 15th Jan, although @rkrkrk suggests 1st Feb.Omnium said:
I'll happily bet with you - proceeds to PB funds.ydoethur said:My bet of £10 to site funds that the government will continue to keep,schools open even if it leads this to be the most disastrous pandemic since 1348 remains open to anyone who will take me up.
If they didn’t close them on the 9th December when it became blindingly obvious what was happening they won’t do so now.
But what is the bet? Odds may vary!
"UK government (England) to not introduce further curtailment of school hours"?
"UK government (England) to not indefinitely close any schools for covid reasons"?
There has to be a timeline too.
You choose the terms - at evens, and then I'll choose the side. Fair enough?
I'll happily also give a tenner to PB funds anyway so that I in fact can't win, and I've seen the state of Mike's suits.
These tricky definitions were of course discussed a day or so ago by Mr Meeks.
Make the best definition you can of the bet.
Loser just pays a tenner to PB?
(Let's narrow it down to the government in Westminster to make it clearer anyway, and in your favour)
The bet is sealed assuming you agree as to the above. I'll also agree to you being the arbiter of win/lose.
It'll be interesting to see what the wrinkles might be on 15th Jan.0 -
More like General Melchett.Foxy said:
I think that we currently have Hugh Laurie's Prince George at the helm.ydoethur said:
Blackadder? I’d settle for Baldrick. At least he *had* a fecking plan.WhisperingOracle said:
We need Blackadder, not Boris.ydoethur said:
https://youtu.be/QnSDDXtd5qIWhisperingOracle said:
This is a major crisis, no doubt.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But if France is blocking imports starting tonight, for 48 hours, it will surely jam up the ports as much of the traffic will already be on its way.Black_Rook said:
If that's true then it should mean we can still get imports into the country, so that oughtn't necessarily to affect the vaccine shipments.rottenborough said:
Here we go.Scott_xP said:About those deliveries...
https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1340729177910239234
Full blown crisis incoming.
Anybody exporting by container ought also to be fine. Don't know about air cargo - if the pilots don't need to disembark at their destination and they turn around and come straight back then hopefully that should remain open too. But that's the end of road traffic to the Continent for the time being. Even if the Dutch and Belgian ports remain open for truckers, demand would presumably massively outstrip supply.1 -
..I just feel generally angry tonight. I've previously supported the conservatives - but what's happened this year has been a total dereliction of duty. Really, really pissed off with them all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fear you are rightalex_ said:
Unfortunately the No dealers are seeing this as a fabulous opportunity. They are going to get all the consequences of no deal, and they will be able to blame it almost entirely on COVID.Razedabode said:
...we could have extended transition period. Hey, we could have even given businesses some certainty instead of flirting with no deal. But govt decided to tackle unprecedented pandemic and no deal at the same timenichomar said:It looks like if it can go wrong it will go wrong, this looks extremely nasty, the cumulative effects so close to 1/1/2021 with ports already over burdened is going to take the UK into uncharted territory. Some of it is of the governments own making but a lot is ‘events’ who would be the best cinc to manage this? Ken Clarke?
1 -
Too late given it takes five weeks to achieve protection.rottenborough said:
Should we immediate vaccinate cross channel lorry drivers?WhisperingOracle said:If this isn't turned around pretty rapidly, I'm afraid to say we may well see food shortages.
0 -
Similar in the Milecastle Spoons window in Toon on Thursday. Won't be going ever again.Gallowgate said:In other news, Wetherspoons have put on quite a spectacle in Morpeth, Northumberland.
1 -
10 days after first shot gives a great deal of protection, the studies show IIRCydoethur said:
Too late given it takes five weeks to achieve protection.rottenborough said:
Should we immediate vaccinate cross channel lorry drivers?WhisperingOracle said:If this isn't turned around pretty rapidly, I'm afraid to say we may well see food shortages.
0 -
