I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
You obviously avoided Hyde Park and Kensington Palace then and no I will stick to my point without apology, Diana was a global icon on the JFK scale and former wife and mother to a future King, her death was one of the biggest news events of my lifetime and in terms of death of an individual Briton of greater impact than any other in the last century globally in terms of news coverage
But still more than silly to compare it with the assassination of JFK.
JFK was President of the USA and 'leader of the free world' at the height of the Cold War.
Diana was ex-wife and mother to people of minute importance by comparison.
The assassination of JFK, the car crash of Princess Diana and the death of Elvis Presley were the 3 biggest celebrity deaths in terms of news coverage of the 20th century.
Not the death of FDR? I'll bet you that got rather more coverage in the US than either Elvis or Diana.
I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
You obviously avoided Hyde Park and Kensington Palace then and no I will stick to my point without apology, Diana was a global icon on the JFK scale and former wife and mother to a future King, her death was one of the biggest news events of my lifetime and in terms of death of an individual Briton of greater impact than any other in the last century globally in terms of news coverage
I was working in Leicester casualty on the day of the funeral. Hardly anyone attended and we sat around drinking coffee and watching the telly in the waiting area.
Diana was very influential. Not just her influence on the Monarchy, which looked anachronistic in her shadow, but also her public work with AIDS and landmines changed perception of both. Would landmines and cluster bombs been banned without her? Probably not.
I am not particularly interested in royalty or celebrity, but she was a worldchanger.
I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
You obviously avoided Hyde Park and Kensington Palace then and no I will stick to my point without apology, Diana was a global icon on the JFK scale and former wife and mother to a future King, her death was one of the biggest news events of my lifetime and in terms of death of an individual Briton of greater impact than any other in the last century globally in terms of news coverage
I was working in Leicester casualty on the day of the funeral. Hardly anyone attended and we sat around drinking coffee and watching the telly in the waiting area.
Diana was very influential. Not just her influence on the Monarchy, which looked anachronistic in her shadow, but also her public work with AIDS and landmines changed perception of both. Would landmines and cluster bombs been banned without her? Probably not.
I am not particularly interested in royalty or celebrity, but she was a worldchanger.
Diana and clusterbombs...thats a new one to me. Loads were dropped by NATO in Serbia/Kosovo some 2.5 years after her death...
Dare I suggest that the demographic of Premier League fans answering a YouGov poll, is quite different from the demographic of Premier League fans attending matches?
I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
You obviously avoided Hyde Park and Kensington Palace then and no I will stick to my point without apology, Diana was a global icon on the JFK scale and former wife and mother to a future King, her death was one of the biggest news events of my lifetime and in terms of death of an individual Briton of greater impact than any other in the last century globally in terms of news coverage
I was working in Leicester casualty on the day of the funeral. Hardly anyone attended and we sat around drinking coffee and watching the telly in the waiting area.
Diana was very influential. Not just her influence on the Monarchy, which looked anachronistic in her shadow, but also her public work with AIDS and landmines changed perception of both. Would landmines and cluster bombs been banned without her? Probably not.
I am not particularly interested in royalty or celebrity, but she was a worldchanger.
Is it bad that my first thought when someone mentions Diana, is that very naughty Frankie Boyle joke that was cut from Mock the Week?
I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
First there was mostly shock, felt in varying degrees depending on how close people felt about the royal family. That’s all you would have seen in the first day or two. With some indifference or mild sympathy from those who didn’t.
The emotional breakdown broke like a wave as the funeral approached, and was truly remarkable. I remember it most clearly, not least because I was working in central London responsible for advising what time off all our staff should get, and how to deal with the growing avalanche of requests for compassionate leave. By midweek I could see the way that previously unaffected people were being overcome with emotion and argued for a wide-ranging time off policy for the day of the funeral. This met with a “surely not?” from the directors, but I stuck to my position and was told afterwards it had been a good call.
The way so very many people were (over) reacting that week was truly astounding, as was the ginormous ever growing pile of flowers in Hyde Park (the adjacent gardens). By the end of that week, people crying on the tube, and lots more carrying flowers about the place, was a common sight.
I'm not questioning the endurance of national identities, far from it. I'm suggesting that the collective qualities of a nation or people do not necessarily persist from one generation to another, and certainly not over multiple generations.
A couple of unrelated observations:
I watched the first episode of Andrew Marr's 'New Elizabethans' series the other night - it was a startling reminder of how vastly attitudes have changed in Britain since the 50s.
I struggle to believe that a country that went into total melt-down over the death of Pricess Diana will show any resilience at all in the face of any shortages, job-losses etc arising from No Deal Brexit.
Well I'm not making any forecasts about upcoming months.
But I will point out that the country did not go into total melt down over the death of Diana.
Fair point - I put my hand up to exaggeration there. However, the whole episode hardly spoke volumes about British grit and reslience.
I'll head deep into stereotyping by suggesting that the people affected by the death of Diana were predominantly celebrity obsessed women or gay men.
With most people getting on with their lives as normal but with varying levels of temporary sadness.
It was more than that, it was quite eerie that August day as I had been on holiday with my parents in Italy and we were coming back through France and staying just outside Paris when the news came through so had almost been following her steps.
When we got back to Dover I remember a grown man openly weeping in the car next to ours, Diana's fatal car crash was our JFK assassination
I was in London on the Sunday and I saw nobody in tears.
I did see some Japanese tourists having their photos taken while holding up newspapers reporting Diana's death.
To compare it with JFK is more than a little silly and might only be justified if you think she was deliberately killed.
You obviously avoided Hyde Park and Kensington Palace then and no I will stick to my point without apology, Diana was a global icon on the JFK scale and former wife and mother to a future King, her death was one of the biggest news events of my lifetime and in terms of death of an individual Briton of greater impact than any other in the last century globally in terms of news coverage
I was working in Leicester casualty on the day of the funeral. Hardly anyone attended and we sat around drinking coffee and watching the telly in the waiting area.
Diana was very influential. Not just her influence on the Monarchy, which looked anachronistic in her shadow, but also her public work with AIDS and landmines changed perception of both. Would landmines and cluster bombs been banned without her? Probably not.
I am not particularly interested in royalty or celebrity, but she was a worldchanger.
Diana and clusterbombs...thats a new one to me. Loads were dropped by NATO in Serbia/Kosovo some 2.5 years after her death...
Yes, the campaign grew and strengthened after her death, but it was her that forced it up the international agenda.
We still have 2 aircraft carriers, of course if necessary it could be repeated
This is absolute shit.
There is a 2,600m runway on the FI now. If the UK careless loses them then they aren't getting them back. The forces of occupation would find it much easier to supply, reinforce and defend.
The other factor is that all current and planned RN ships use VLS missile systems that cannot be replenished at sea. The USN have tried and failed. Believe me, if they can't do it, the RN have no chance. This makes them uniquely ill suited expenditionary warfare in the South Atlantic. Once a T31 has winchester'ed its battery (only 12 missiles to save a few quid) the only way it can be replenished is dockside in the UK.
The logistics issues are compounded by the fact that standardisation has completely gone out of the window in search of cost savings. We now have 3 different surface combatants with 3 different main gun calibres, 4.5″, 5″, 57mm and 3 different secondary calibres, 40mm, 30mm, 20mm, with no two ships featuring identical combinations of guns. Not to mention 3 different VLS systems, Sylver A50, GWS.35 canisters, and Mk 41s with no weapons in our inventory cleared for use or any in the immediate future. Then 2 different families of SAM with Type 45 carrying Aster/Sea Viper and frigates carrying Sea Ceptor/CAMM(M). Type 45/31 only able to carry canister launched ASuW missiles and the Type 26 only able to carry VL.
How the fuck do you keep that logistics tail intact at 50°S? Especially given the tories' criminal neglect of the RFA FSS replacement program.
You know the tory part inside out, I'll give you that. You know nothing about what retaking the FI would entail.
We have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
You are a Scottish nationalist who hates the UK, the UK government however would of course send a full expeditionary force to the FI in the unlikely event Argentina tried to retake it , use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
Comments
Diana was very influential. Not just her influence on the Monarchy, which looked anachronistic in her shadow, but also her public work with AIDS and landmines changed perception of both. Would landmines and cluster bombs been banned without her? Probably not.
I am not particularly interested in royalty or celebrity, but she was a worldchanger.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/shoppers-london-high-streets-lockdown-b180302.html
The emotional breakdown broke like a wave as the funeral approached, and was truly remarkable. I remember it most clearly, not least because I was working in central London responsible for advising what time off all our staff should get, and how to deal with the growing avalanche of requests for compassionate leave. By midweek I could see the way that previously unaffected people were being overcome with emotion and argued for a wide-ranging time off policy for the day of the funeral. This met with a “surely not?” from the directors, but I stuck to my position and was told afterwards it had been a good call.
The way so very many people were (over) reacting that week was truly astounding, as was the ginormous ever growing pile of flowers in Hyde Park (the adjacent gardens). By the end of that week, people crying on the tube, and lots more carrying flowers about the place, was a common sight.
You are a Scottish nationalist who hates the UK, the UK government however would of course send a full expeditionary force to the FI in the unlikely event Argentina tried to retake it , use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982