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WH2020 – With the counts continuing in several key states Biden is not yet claiming victory – politi

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  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    felix said:

    felix said:

    CNN: 11am in Fulton County for next results there. That's 4pm our time isn't it?

    Its a shame CNN is the only US channel on Sky. It would be fun to mix between CNN and Fox, I'd love to see how Fox are taking this.

    I have both and FOX is actually better than CNN in reporting the results and show less bias in their coverage.
    Is Fox on Sky? I couldn't find them, what channel number?
    I am in Spain - we have a package that includes Sky and lots pf other stuff. I don't know if the numbers would match.
    You can watch Fox via their website.

  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Perhaps later today we can enjoy the first Trump press conference after Biden has been announced as the winner.

    I wonder what he will say...?

    'I was going to scream and shout and refuse to go but after talking with my warm and caring family,,,,I've decided to nuke PA?'
  • RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Agreed. Just avoid any uncertainty and make the whole thing postal only now. If things improve, they can have polling places where postal ballots can be dropped off in person.
    I suppose there is a capacity questions if we all did it, with the extra required checks etc.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,703
    Might Trump be saved in GA by late military ballots not yet received / not in today's count?
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    So you did get it from a right wing nut job then.

    That never happened. You were here when the 130k happened and commented about it at the time - and yes Trump got 10k at the time.
    Which is why I did say irony when I was typing it....

    Look, I am only quoting what I have heard was said by the Trump campaign. What I said on the night was in reaction to the info then. The two are separate things.

    Anyway, why don't you go back to predicting us a 381.5 EC Biden win :)
    So what are you going to believe - what you saw at the time and spoke about at the time, or what the Trump campaign are saying?

    This is serious 1984 stuff. You saw Trump get 10k in that release, you spoke about it and now you are parroting that it is zero?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    In the last week, Starmer and Dodds have both been entirely vindicated. Politically, though, it is unlikely to matter.

    It doesn't matter at all anywhere. They might have said the right thing weeks ago and done the right thing in the HoC but all anyone will care about is that the govt won the votes and Lab supported them.

    That is not a good look for an Opposition.

    It's better to be right than wrong. Doing the right thing is also important, even if there are no votes in it.

    Only ‘right’ in the sense that it’s what the two major parties agree on. Like when Cameron and Miliband’s parties thought it best we Remain in the EU. The public didn’t unanimously agree with that either

    Public validation is not necessary for something to be right.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    Someone posted a screenshot showing the Trump vote staying the same, Biden up by 130K but then people on here started mentioning it was doctored.

    It's being a long 72 hours and, TBH, I was only saying what had been suggested by his campaign and what he will use as the basis for a legal challenge in MI. May not happen if he walks away.
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Trump files lawsuit in Georgia

    Suggests he knows they have lost the state.
    ABC.net.au saying gap is 18k but only 10k left to count. Not sure their source but biden cant win if that's true.
    Think you are out by an order of magnitude there.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-georgia.html
    Do you have the link @paulyork64 for ABC? Agree it looks odd.
    The New York Times site gives you the live numbers. 4.9million in with 96% counted.
    interested in why ABC saying what it is
    MrEd said:

    Penn Dem Senator says no question they have won Penn.

    If he wins Pennsylvania that's enough isn't it?
    Depends - a few sites have called AZ for Biden so yes then but the NYT hasn't, in that case no
    WRONG


    PA is plenty.
    I corrected that an hour ago @Anabobazina Do keep up if you are trying to be funny
    Just leave them to it mate
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,650

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
  • Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    Some or all of the content shared in this post is disputed and might be misleading about an election or other civic process.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Trump files lawsuit in Georgia

    Suggests he knows they have lost the state.
    ABC.net.au saying gap is 18k but only 10k left to count. Not sure their source but biden cant win if that's true.
    Think you are out by an order of magnitude there.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-georgia.html
    Do you have the link @paulyork64 for ABC? Agree it looks odd.
    The New York Times site gives you the live numbers. 4.9million in with 96% counted.
    interested in why ABC saying what it is
    MrEd said:

    Penn Dem Senator says no question they have won Penn.

    If he wins Pennsylvania that's enough isn't it?
    Depends - a few sites have called AZ for Biden so yes then but the NYT hasn't, in that case no
    WRONG


    PA is plenty.
    I corrected that an hour ago @Anabobazina Do keep up if you are trying to be funny
    Just leave them to it mate
    Yeah, you are right. Back to work. Cheers @CorrectHorseBattery
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
  • MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    Someone posted a screenshot showing the Trump vote staying the same, Biden up by 130K but then people on here started mentioning it was doctored.

    It's being a long 72 hours and, TBH, I was only saying what had been suggested by his campaign and what he will use as the basis for a legal challenge in MI. May not happen if he walks away.
    And you have never heard of Photoshop?

    Someone posted an image so it must be true? The courts aren't going to take a photoshopped image very seriously, Trump got 10k at the time not zero and the fake image that someone posted is a lie.
  • MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    Someone posted a screenshot showing the Trump vote staying the same, Biden up by 130K but then people on here started mentioning it was doctored.

    It's being a long 72 hours and, TBH, I was only saying what had been suggested by his campaign and what he will use as the basis for a legal challenge in MI. May not happen if he walks away.
    If he uses it for a legal challenge and the defence just point to the fact that it isn't true then it won't get very far...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,516

    Perhaps later today we can enjoy the first Trump press conference after Biden has been announced as the winner.

    I wonder what he will say...?

    "I call on the Electoral College voters to prevent a fraud on the American people, by voting for me, as the true winner of this election...."


    Wouldn't put it past him!
  • isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    It was also designed to give states weeks to conduct counts. Funny how that doesn't seem to get emphasis from the same people who defend the electoral college.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    Secure online voting is not attainable. Certainly not by May, and possibly not ever. The only reliable, secure methods of voting involve paper and pencil.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    Someone posted a screenshot showing the Trump vote staying the same, Biden up by 130K but then people on here started mentioning it was doctored.

    It's being a long 72 hours and, TBH, I was only saying what had been suggested by his campaign and what he will use as the basis for a legal challenge in MI. May not happen if he walks away.
    I dont think there will be a successful legal challenge

    Mainly because its pure fiction


    Even Trump says "if"
  • Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    Putin smiling in the background.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MrEd said:

    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Mal557 said:

    MrEd said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    It's also worth taking into account who runs the courts in these states.

    In GA, I'm thinking the SoS will declare a Trump victory, knowing any D challenge in the courts is likely to fail in GA and, if it gets to the SC, has the issue of a Republican majority;

    In MI, the Supreme Court is Republican and has already made decisions against Whitmer;

    More difficult for the Rs in PA (D) and Wisconsin (mixture I think). But, with PA, there is the SC option they tried last time.

    If this comes down to lawsuits, there is a crucial difference in what is being argued. With the Democrats, it will be about adding votes that have come in (GA, maybe NC). Presumably, the 2000 decision holds sway.

    With the Republicans, they will be looking to strike votes out. Expect questions to be raised about the very high return rates of VBM in large, mainly black cities and where the SoS is Democrat.
    So are you keeping your prediction of a Trump win? Just by legal chicanery though? :)
    Haha, don't think I said how it should be won, just that he would :)

    In seriousness, I think that would be a bad outcome.

    However, there would be enough grey areas for the Republicans to contest, for example the 130K dump to Biden with 0 votes for anyone else in MI.
    Except that didn't happen: there were 140K votes which split 130K:10K.
    No apparently it was a straight 130K dump.

    I'm not quoting some right wing nut job website but from someone who - and I can't give away more than this - got this from within the Trump campaign (I know, irony etc etc). It was a 130K dump and there will be legal challenges around that.
    You can literally see the bump in the Trump Vote line at the same time.
    Someone posted a screenshot showing the Trump vote staying the same, Biden up by 130K but then people on here started mentioning it was doctored.

    It's being a long 72 hours and, TBH, I was only saying what had been suggested by his campaign and what he will use as the basis for a legal challenge in MI. May not happen if he walks away.
    If you were going to do something dodgy and post a random number of made up votes to one side, don't you think you would make it less "suspicious" by adding an extra 10,000 to both sides?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    edited November 2020
    Deleted
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited November 2020
    Gap down to 146,000 votes now in PA.
  • Essexit said:

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    Secure online voting is not attainable. Certainly not by May, and possibly not ever. The only reliable, secure methods of voting involve paper and pencil.
    Secure online voting is an oxymoron.

    image
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,197

    BETTING POST

    50K LEFT IN GEORGIA

    SOS Office live on CNN

    Pile on Biden? 1.49

    DYOR

    Just got a nice sized bet on at 8/15 with Bet365
  • I don't trust the security of online voting and I'm a software guy
  • Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs
  • Essexit said:

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    Secure online voting is not attainable. Certainly not by May, and possibly not ever. The only reliable, secure methods of voting involve paper and pencil.
    Secure online voting is an oxymoron.

    image
    Perhaps they could try CorrectHorseBattery as the password
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189
    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    PA updating now 146k down

    Have you got the ratios?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    In the last week, Starmer and Dodds have both been entirely vindicated. Politically, though, it is unlikely to matter.

    It doesn't matter at all anywhere. They might have said the right thing weeks ago and done the right thing in the HoC but all anyone will care about is that the govt won the votes and Lab supported them.

    That is not a good look for an Opposition.

    It's better to be right than wrong. Doing the right thing is also important, even if there are no votes in it.

    Only ‘right’ in the sense that it’s what the two major parties agree on. Like when Cameron and Miliband’s parties thought it best we Remain in the EU. The public didn’t unanimously agree with that either

    Public validation is not necessary for something to be right.
    Nor is cross party agreement
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    MikeL said:

    Might Trump be saved in GA by late military ballots not yet received / not in today's count?

    There's also the possibility of a few Democratic ballots (missing signatures on envelopes etc) being cured by tomorrow.
    Probably not a large number, but not nothing:
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/georgia-black-vote-suppression-nse-ufot-stacey-abrams.html

    Same article has accounts of the same old same old from Georgia...
    ...So, example: I woke up on Tuesday and found out that the place that I’d been voting for 20 years, that I wasn’t supposed to vote there on Election Day.

    We still don’t have the final tally, but between Fulton and DeKalb counties, two of the largest and two of the blackest counties in the state of Georgia, right now are up to 75 polling locations that were changed within 24 hours of the polls opening on election day...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2020

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did

    Some new intake MP might have decided they dont like it and jump ship because it doesnt matter anyway
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    GA

    LIVE UPDATES:

    9:04 a.m.

    Here is the latest information from Channel 2′s Chris Jose and Tony Thomas on the counts in Cobb County and Gwinnett County:

    There are 1,882 ballots left to count in Cobb County. There are around 700 absentee ballots left to county Thursday. Around 800 provisional ballots will be counted Friday.

    Gwinnett County still has around 10,000 ore more votes not in the state system.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did
    Not for long, he barely held on in 2015 and he had to stand down in 2017 as he had no chance then.

    Defectors have a very poor rate of retaining seats. Those who stick with their party have a much, much better rate.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,197

    GA

    LIVE UPDATES:

    9:04 a.m.

    Here is the latest information from Channel 2′s Chris Jose and Tony Thomas on the counts in Cobb County and Gwinnett County:

    There are 1,882 ballots left to count in Cobb County. There are around 700 absentee ballots left to county Thursday. Around 800 provisional ballots will be counted Friday.

    Gwinnett County still has around 10,000 ore more votes not in the state system.

    Was it you who tipped the 7/1 state combination bet with Paddy Power? Looking good.
  • kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    Stocky said:

    BETTING POST

    50K LEFT IN GEORGIA

    SOS Office live on CNN

    Pile on Biden? 1.49

    DYOR

    Just got a nice sized bet on at 8/15 with Bet365
    If CNN 50k is correct and they keep repeating it was an update from Sec of States office in last 30 mins its a sure fire winner
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923

    Mortimer said:

    What are people thinking about next May's elections? Will they happen?

    The sensible, pragmatic decision would be to decide now to switch them to all-postal so that there's plenty of time to plan printing, posting and public information.

    I suspect that would be seen as too negative on the virus, so the risk is that we're faced with last-minute decisions.
    Time to introduce secure on-line voting.
    Bollocks to that. :D
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    edited November 2020
    It strikes me that even if we know Georgia results today, we’re not going to be able to rely on them for either camp. There is too much uncertainty, the possibility of a recount or challenge, late arriving ballots, military and overseas etc etc. Georgia isn’t going to be the state either party will be able to use to declare victory (I mean, Trump will but he’ll do that anyway).

    It could take another week or even longer to get a final decision there.

    Which just makes PA, NV, AZ more crucial.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Raheem had 7k on a Trump win IIRC
  • Perhaps later today we can enjoy the first Trump press conference after Biden has been announced as the winner.

    I wonder what he will say...?

    "I call on the Electoral College voters to prevent a fraud on the American people, by voting for me, as the true winner of this election...."


    Wouldn't put it past him!
    Thats an interesting idea. "Its Fake News that I have lost the election. We haven't yet had the election. The founding fathers chose to put their trust in an electoral college and I am confident that when the Electoral College votes - the only votes that count - they will vote for me"
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Stocky said:

    GA

    LIVE UPDATES:

    9:04 a.m.

    Here is the latest information from Channel 2′s Chris Jose and Tony Thomas on the counts in Cobb County and Gwinnett County:

    There are 1,882 ballots left to count in Cobb County. There are around 700 absentee ballots left to county Thursday. Around 800 provisional ballots will be counted Friday.

    Gwinnett County still has around 10,000 ore more votes not in the state system.

    Was it you who tipped the 7/1 state combination bet with Paddy Power? Looking good.
    yeah. god that's been a rollercoaster. wrote it off early hours weds, then thought it was safe, then Az which was called got uncalled. I still dont know!
  • I might go back into Betfair at 1.17.

    If PA/GA declare for Biden in the next day then the price should drop to 1.05/1.06, even with the threat of lawsuits hanging over them, so you should be able to squeeze £100-£120 out of net profit for every stack you chuck in now - assuming you trade out by Friday and don't wait, else it's more.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did
    Not for long, he barely held on in 2015 and he had to stand down in 2017 as he had no chance then.

    Defectors have a very poor rate of retaining seats. Those who stick with their party have a much, much better rate.
    Do you have prices in mind for no defections/at least one defection?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    It was also designed to give states weeks to conduct counts. Funny how that doesn't seem to get emphasis from the same people who defend the electoral college.
    I have not defended slow counts. Either way if they wish to change the way they conduct elections or the way the electoral college works I guess they would do so. I don't even defend the EC system - simply explaining why it is as it is.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    PA

    GOP 3221K
    Dem 3078k
    Diff 143k

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,827
    edited November 2020
    Despite his loss in 1992, the 53.4% of the national popular vote and 426 EC votes George HW Bush got in 1988 has still not been bettered by any Republican presidential candidate since, including even his son in 2004 and Trump in 2016.

    Overall he was the last GOP President who can generally be said to have left a good legacy, sound finances, a climate change deal signed at the Rio Summit, action to help the disabled and of course he won the Gulf War with a huge multinational coalition and a UN mandate
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Stocky said:

    BETTING POST

    50K LEFT IN GEORGIA

    SOS Office live on CNN

    Pile on Biden? 1.49

    DYOR

    Just got a nice sized bet on at 8/15 with Bet365
    If CNN 50k is correct and they keep repeating it was an update from Sec of States office in last 30 mins its a sure fire winner
    What's the mean ratio of the votes coming in?

    70/30 makes it tight but Biden.

    80/20 makes it fairly comfortable for Biden (small five figure gap).
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did
    Not for long, he barely held on in 2015 and he had to stand down in 2017 as he had no chance then.

    Defectors have a very poor rate of retaining seats. Those who stick with their party have a much, much better rate.
    That fact, while true, does somewhat dent the FPTP defenders when they use the stance that "FPTP means we vote for the person, not the party."
  • isam said:

    ...

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did
    Not for long, he barely held on in 2015 and he had to stand down in 2017 as he had no chance then.

    Defectors have a very poor rate of retaining seats. Those who stick with their party have a much, much better rate.
    Do you have prices in mind for no defections/at least one defection?
    I'm not betting on it but if forced to choose at evens for both then I would choose no defections.
  • kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
    I voted remain, but am not a supporter of the EU, I just think on balance it is better to be in than out. I would prefer Luxembourg had less relative power. It seems you are confusing wanting to be in the EU, with agreeing exactly how it is structured and operates which would be an extremely niche position held by very few.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    ...

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I guess any defectors who join Farage’s anti lockdown Reform party couldn’t call a by election even if they wanted to?

    Up to 40 could do so and still leave Boris with a majority but make their point
    There were two defectors to UKIP and that was over the EU which is historically a huge Tory issue. The idea of 1 defector let alone 40 over the issue if lockdown is ridiculous.
    I think we'll definitely see a couple before long - the pull of Nigel, and all he says and does, is just too intoxicating for many.
    I doubt it.

    For all that people claim MP's are paid poorly, the pull of an MP's salary and the egostroking that goes with it is too intoxicating for many to throw that away.
    They'd still be MPs until the next GE, and they might not be after that if they stay Tories
    They will only be MPs after the next GE if they stay Tories. Tories win seats, defectors don't.
    Douglas Carswell did
    Not for long, he barely held on in 2015 and he had to stand down in 2017 as he had no chance then.

    Defectors have a very poor rate of retaining seats. Those who stick with their party have a much, much better rate.
    Do you have prices in mind for no defections/at least one defection?
    I'm not betting on it but if forced to choose at evens for both then I would choose no defections.
    Haha fuck me! Me too haha
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    Especially Georgia and PA definitely carry on in AZ and NV though
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    PA updating now 146k down

    Have you got the ratios?
    Down on what?
  • isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    For consistency, we should also have visearls or visjarls rather than viscounts.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    No electoral system is perfect and most have aspects which are 'indefensibly ridiculous' - eg Equal electoral districts beloved of the Chartists would probably give Orkney Shetland and much of northern Scotland 1MP in total. As already said the way to change the American system is there - the will may not be.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Mal557 said:

    PA updating now 146k down

    Have you got the ratios?
    Down on what?
    GA ballots coming in.
  • These counts remind me of IT projects which are reported "95% complete" week after week.
  • isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    For consistency, we should also have visearls or visjarls rather than viscounts.
    And the wife of an earl is a countess.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2020

    isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    I did a pub quiz once and called my team "The Count and his Cristos" - the quizmaster managed to squeeze a fair bit of material from it!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,653
    isam said:
    I think the voters just did


    Stop the C that is
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    Especially as it was the inferior orders who spoke, er, Anglo-Saxon, and would have welcomed that way to address their French overlords.

    The things one learns on PB.
  • These counts remind me of IT projects which are reported "95% complete" week after week.

    I've had upgrades like that, yes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:
    So they think they have lost NV too?
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Does anyone have a link for the PA current voting numbers? I know a couple of sites have been mentioned earlier giving different figures of remaining votes. Is there an official one that is or should be correct?
  • kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
    I voted remain, but am not a supporter of the EU, I just think on balance it is better to be in than out. I would prefer Luxembourg had less relative power. It seems you are confusing wanting to be in the EU, with agreeing exactly how it is structured and operates which would be an extremely niche position held by very few.
    A voice of a moderate British Remainer, a voice from which we hear far too little.

    Thank you, and that's a perfectly reasonable position to have.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
    Quite - there are imperfections in all systems - the EU solves the problem by having its President not chosen directly by the people at all! :)
  • PA down to 142k
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Mal557 said:

    PA updating now 146k down

    Have you got the ratios?
    Down on what?
    GA ballots coming in.
    GA? Bigjohn quoted PA? so 146K votes being declared or just counted in this batch?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Scott_xP said:
    So they think they have lost NV too?
    Seriously, why not wait for more information? Surely doing that couldn't look much worse than it looks already.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923

    These counts remind me of IT projects which are reported "95% complete" week after week.

    I've had upgrades like that, yes.
    "under a minute remaining"
  • isam said:

    isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    I did a pub quiz once and called my team "The Count and his Cristos" - the quizmaster managed to squeeze a fair bit of material from it!
    I once encountered one called "The big fact hunt".
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Bf on the move

    Biden1.14
    Trump7.6
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited November 2020

    kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
    I voted remain, but am not a supporter of the EU, I just think on balance it is better to be in than out. I would prefer Luxembourg had less relative power. It seems you are confusing wanting to be in the EU, with agreeing exactly how it is structured and operates which would be an extremely niche position held by very few.
    Step up William Glenn of this parish! :
  • If GA ends up going to Trump it’s going to be horribly anticlimactic
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    The third season of Veep (maybe it was the fourth) revolves around the Julia Louis-Dreyfus dealing with a tied Electoral College in the first election after she becomes President - the incumbent having resigned. At one point her lawyer is before a court in Nevada trying to keep a count going when news comes in that somemissing ballots are heavily against her. So the lawyer, halfway through submissions, switches from wanting the count continued to wanting it stopped.

    It's actually kind of happening.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    If Gwinnet county has 10k more votes "not in the state system" maybe this explains the SoS updating his outstanding ballots total from 25k to "around 50k".

    Gwinnet is currently 58% Biden 40% Trump but these could be bluer if mail ins.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    isam said:

    isam said:
    Apparently the reason we have earls rather than counts in the UK nobility is because of the similarity of the sound of the word count to something else...

    Probably just an urban legend, but don't shatter my illusions if it is.
    I did a pub quiz once and called my team "The Count and his Cristos" - the quizmaster managed to squeeze a fair bit of material from it!
    I once encountered one called "The big fact hunt".
    Daughter played in skittle team ‘cunning stunts’
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So they think they have lost NV too?
    Seriously, why not wait for more information? Surely doing that couldn't look much worse than it looks already.
    It's clear he's disputing every state he's lost or losing in that costs him 4 more years. Its not a suprise. He said weeks ago if he lost it had been stolen or was fraud, this is simply doing what Trump does best. What I find sad is that so many americans, not just his voters but those in power seem quite happy to let him ps on a democratic process like this and act like some kind of dictator
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923
    felix said:

    kamski said:

    felix said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    If I understand this right, then if Trump holds PA and AZ then he wins? Its all down to PA now?

    Yes that’s right re winning. But if Biden gets AZ and NV he doesn’t need PA.

    GA is the wildcard - If Biden gets that he doesn’t need 1 of AZ or NV - who knows where it’s at on that front. Hearing different things!
    Then maybe we should be topping up on Trump? GA not flipping and AZ still in play. This is still not over?
    Is there a small chance Trump could sneak through? Perhaps, but unlikely. He needs a lot to fall his way. Might be worth a flutter but DYOR.
    Obviously this is on my personal fear that the ogre isn´t dead- But the problem is, as I see it, that he in fact he actually is still very much alive. Georgia was flipping, but now that looks unlikely, AZ was Biden, but now isn´t, so whats to say that PA doesn´t flip either? Obviously this is down to a very few thousand, and it seems to me that Trump is value if such a small gap is still out there (even before we look to snookers in recounts or the courts). Any comfort or thoughts?
    So my understanding of all of them at this point is:

    GA - too close to call. See update above from Nate Silver.

    NV - probably expected Dem. My understanding is the ballots to be counted come mainly from Clark which is a big Dem area.

    AZ - again the remaining ballots are generally more from Dem areas. But Trump does better here than mail ins elsewhere. So it is looking likely Dem but there is a risk it falls the wrong way.

    PA - the Biden camp seem very optimistic here, nothing but good mood music. The way the results are breaking suggests that on current trends he’s done enough to have a small but ok lead. We just can’t be sure how much yet. Some are saying tens of thousands, others 100k+.

    All in all I can’t really see a huge path opening up suddenly for Trump.
    Thanks... As others have said it really is ridiculous that when the popular vote is so clear that the result is still so much in doubt. It seems to me the real price should be closer to evens than the current market, but I wonder what would trigger the unwind under the current scenarios you name. If AZ and NV called for Trump before PA, I guess that would do it.
    Not ridiculous if you understand the basis of the US system for electing a President. You may not like it but it is designed to give more weight to small States.
    Many people understand (god knows it is repeated often enough on here!) the "basis bla bla bla" and still find it indefensibly ridiculous.
    It is people who say that small states don't matter in the USA, but are supporters of the EU, where Luxembourg gets a veto, that I don't understand.
    Quite - there are imperfections in all systems - the EU solves the problem by having its President not chosen directly by the people at all! :)
    And not even chosen by the parties who won the preceding election. ;)
  • Why is it taking so long to count these ballots?

    It seems every time Trump looks like he might have a chance there is a massive delay for no reason then a big dump of Biden votes.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So they think they have lost NV too?
    Seriously, why not wait for more information? Surely doing that couldn't look much worse than it looks already.
    If they launch enough lawsuits somewhere somehow some Biden votes will get thrown out, I guess is the idea. The Dems should probably be launching lawsuits in any places where there's a chance, however tiny, to reduce the Trump vote to make it a fair fight.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    PA down to 142k

    Blue shift is rolling. Fingers crossed this looks like Michigan by the evening. Some outstanding OTD vote to count in Philly too according to Nate Cohn. Also 30000 ballots to be reconciled in Pittsburgh, and whatever is in Philly. Not looking good for Trump although my anxiety disorder doesn’t let me relax one bit.
  • Why is it taking so long to count these ballots?

    It seems every time Trump looks like he might have a chance there is a massive delay for no reason then a big dump of Biden votes.

    The reason there is a delay is because the GOP legislators in these states refused to permit the early counting of these votes.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    PA down to 142k

    If that's all that's left i suspect the 488K figure was right and the 700K one wrong , which means it will be much closer in PA than those 100-200K projections I
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    edited November 2020
    ping said:

    Bf on the move

    Biden1.14
    Trump7.6

    What's the betting on it reaching half a beellion quid? £486M at the moment.
  • As it stands Trump has 213 EV. If they STOP THE COUNT he would be awarded
    Alaska: 3 EV
    Georgia: 16 EV
    Maine 2: 1 EV
    North Carolina: 15 EV
    Pennsylvania: 20 EV
    Giving him 268.

    Biden is on 253. So he would be awarded:
    Arizona: 11 EV
    Nevada: 6 EV
    Giving him 270 EV

    So if the states do as Donald Trump requests, Donald Trump loses the election.


  • Mal557 said:

    PA down to 142k

    If that's all that's left i suspect the 488K figure was right and the 700K one wrong , which means it will be much closer in PA than those 100-200K projections I
    I think that number is the gap, not the number of remaining ballots.
This discussion has been closed.