On the biggest political betting market of all time Biden is still favourite but not by much – polit
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It would be news for @LadyG to not be on the bottlerottenborough said:Talking of Sean.
Middle classes hit the bottle.
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305615117321723911/photo/11 -
Yeah if the Neill rebels are abstaining today then the majority might end up about the Government's original 80 which is quite brilliant.Richard_Nabavi said:
It will probably be higher tonight simply because the vote on the Bob Neill amendment won't happen until next week (and also the DUP will vote in favour).Philip_Thompson said:What kind of majority do we forecast? I'm guessing about 50-60?
And I suspect the Government will accept the Neill amendment as a compromise, though probably not immediately.0 -
Especially as she is holding some kind of strawberry tart or cake, and above her a doctor is trying to persuade everyone to eat 800 calories a day to avoid pre-diabetes.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305615117321723911
I mean good for Lottie I suppose but I wonder why she was chosen for the front page - slow news day at the Fail and she's vaguely good looking?
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Yes, track and trace was the call centre, it was separate from testing until some time in July when they got merged and she took it over and the Deloitte people all went back to their day jobs.alex_ said:
Yep, i think Philip is mixing up test and trace with track and trace? Track and trace was what she was in charge of (which was a shambles until somebody realised they had to involve local authorities.MaxPB said:
Eveb then that was to run the call centre rather than the testing regime. She only got put in charge of testing at a much later date.williamglenn said:
She was appointed a week after the government first claimed to have met the 100k per day target in May.Philip_Thompson said:
Eh?MaxPB said:
It has to be said, since she took over things have become terrible. Whoever was running it before was able to scale up from zero to 200k in a few months. Why did we change the management?!rottenborough said:
Journalists are now themselves hitting the no test wall, as their children get sent home from school:Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305610521840943106dixiedean said:Everyone I know,, out with this board, is talking about testing. The lack of it.
Non-political people are hearing from their friends and neighbours.
This has real cut through.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305454068278665216
Let's hope they don't allow whatever dead feline is about to drop from the skies to divert them from the shambles that is the Dido No Test and No track service.
She was running it and was the one to scale it up.1 -
Indeed. He must have had very good German as well.Foxy said:0 -
Boris Johnson's face reminds me of that moment when you remember you've left the cooker on0
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Cake, ale and diabetes. Cheery from the Mail.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305615117321723911
I mean good for Lottie I suppose but I wonder why she was chosen for the front page - slow news day at the Fail and she's vaguely good looking?3 -
What do they care in Cummings's lair? He's probably got a massive stockpile of food and medication in rural Durham where he will flee to when the shit hits the fan in new year.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Hmm. I'm thinking of burgling your house, and taking a strictly moderate amount of stuff. However, I will only do so if my very close friend agrees.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not useless, its a valuable check on the power of the executive. Quite a reasoned and reasonable proposal IMHO.Scott_xP said:
And it means that any exercise of breaching international law is only done with the explicit consent of the elected Commons. Quite reasonable there too I think.
Do you feel reaasured?5 -
Eat drink and be merry for tommorow we may diet.dixiedean said:
Cake, ale and diabetes. Cheery from the Mail.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305615117321723911
I mean good for Lottie I suppose but I wonder why she was chosen for the front page - slow news day at the Fail and she's vaguely good looking?3 -
Let them bake cake?dixiedean said:
Cake, ale and diabetes. Cheery from the Mail.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305615117321723911
I mean good for Lottie I suppose but I wonder why she was chosen for the front page - slow news day at the Fail and she's vaguely good looking?0 -
Well, the debate has been all about the wrong thing in my view - the Bill without the Neill Amendment has to be opposed because it takes too much power into the Executive and weakens Parliamentary sovereignty.Philip_Thompson said:
That's a fair point about the Parliament v the Executive, quite frankly to me a better point than the international law one.
The Neill amendment deals with the Parliament v Executive issue . . . it doesn't really deal with the international law one. I'd be quite happy to see this bill go through with the Neill amendment. Require a Statutory Instrument and a Commons vote for any actions taken under this Bill, though interestingly Boris said that would happen which makes me wonder what the difference is between the Bill unamended and with the Amendment anyway?
I have no issue with the Neill Amendment - it embodies the accountability of Ministers and that is surely what Parliament has to be about. In truth, the Government should accept the Amendment and the necessary checks and balances between Executive and Legislature.2 -
Yep - it makes no difference to the substance of the International law issue whether the potential for unilateral treaty breach is authorised by Ministers or Parliament. And in practice if Ministers came to Parliament and said - "you must authorise (probably under Statutory Instrument without debate) this because EU is doing X,Y,Z" then they aren't going to reject it. Either Parliament rejects utterly the breaking of international law or it doesn't. Giving itself the power to do so makes no difference.Scott_xP said:
And the other point is that it allows the Government to make a minor concession (for reasons stated) whilst granting itself the powers contained within the rest of the enormous and constitutionally outrageous provisions of the bill.0 -
He doesn't cook. He has staff for that.CorrectHorseBattery said:Boris Johnson's face reminds me of that moment when you remember you've left the cooker on
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If the Government does accept the Neill amendment as a compromise and the rebels agree to leave it at that, and if the DUP backs the Government, then surely that would leave a majority at the end pretty close to 100? Would be hard surely for the Lords to not accept the compromise bill with that sort of majority eventually?
Though do you think the rebels would be satisfied with the Neill amendment or would some oppose this to the death even with the amendment?0 -
Downhill rapidly from then on. But Hancock knows what he's doing.MaxPB said:
Yes, track and trace was the call centre, it was separate from testing until some time in July when they got merged and she took it over and the Deloitte people all went back to their day jobs.alex_ said:
Yep, i think Philip is mixing up test and trace with track and trace? Track and trace was what she was in charge of (which was a shambles until somebody realised they had to involve local authorities.MaxPB said:
Eveb then that was to run the call centre rather than the testing regime. She only got put in charge of testing at a much later date.williamglenn said:
She was appointed a week after the government first claimed to have met the 100k per day target in May.Philip_Thompson said:
Eh?MaxPB said:
It has to be said, since she took over things have become terrible. Whoever was running it before was able to scale up from zero to 200k in a few months. Why did we change the management?!rottenborough said:
Journalists are now themselves hitting the no test wall, as their children get sent home from school:Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305610521840943106dixiedean said:Everyone I know,, out with this board, is talking about testing. The lack of it.
Non-political people are hearing from their friends and neighbours.
This has real cut through.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305454068278665216
Let's hope they don't allow whatever dead feline is about to drop from the skies to divert them from the shambles that is the Dido No Test and No track service.
She was running it and was the one to scale it up.0 -
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, knows that it has a cost in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!7 -
Extra chilli sauce please...Scott_xP said:1 -
The EU could start by using fewer apostrophe'''s than Kate McCann.Scott_xP said:3 -
Mirror grousing on about exemptions for shoots. Testing shortages might be more important to those in Birmingham, Bolton and the other hot spots.0
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The Daily Mail is right: people seem to be drinking a lot more than usual.0
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https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1305618372743368704
Keir will grow into the role.
Ed M for Shadow Chancellor, me thinks0 -
Not any more...rottenborough said:
He doesn't cook. He has staff for that.CorrectHorseBattery said:Boris Johnson's face reminds me of that moment when you remember you've left the cooker on
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Are they all hiding in fridges?Foxy said:
Not any more...rottenborough said:
He doesn't cook. He has staff for that.CorrectHorseBattery said:Boris Johnson's face reminds me of that moment when you remember you've left the cooker on
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Yes, it's processing and logistics rather than swabs that are the issue. Both solvable, but maybe not for the people in charge. Limiting demand in places that are hotspots is surely something to be avoided, the fact that processing capacity seems to have been reached is the issue and it not being close enough to where the outbreak is worst. As I said, it feels like a failure of modelling and a halting of testing scale up since the management change.alex_ said:
If the logjam is in the labs then is that area specific? Is it not that they're trying to limit actual testing to the limits of what can be processed in labs. The lack of availability of tests in hotspot areas is probably not a coincidence. If you're trying to limit demand, the place to reduce numbers is in the areas where they are most needed.MaxPB said:
Well that's surely just a case of paying cloudflare. There needs to be enough excess capacity in areas that are likely outbreak spots. It feels like the government's modelling team is once again being caught short. We've know for ages that the North was likely to be the second wave epicenter and it would spread from there into Scotland and Birmingham. Why has nothing been done to up the processing capacity in these areas?alex_ said:
Pointless unless you can manage demand to match.MaxPB said:Surely it's time for Matt Hancock to get behind the podium and announce a 500k target by the end of October for testing and force the machinery of government to get there. That's how it happened last time, without the target we'd still be plodding along at 70-80k pillar 1 tests.
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It doesn't workstodge said:I have no issue with the Neill Amendment
https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1305587532118323200
Apart from that...0 -
At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming0 -
"But Hancock knows what he's doing."rottenborough said:
Downhill rapidly from then on. But Hancock knows what he's doing.MaxPB said:
Yes, track and trace was the call centre, it was separate from testing until some time in July when they got merged and she took it over and the Deloitte people all went back to their day jobs.alex_ said:
Yep, i think Philip is mixing up test and trace with track and trace? Track and trace was what she was in charge of (which was a shambles until somebody realised they had to involve local authorities.MaxPB said:
Eveb then that was to run the call centre rather than the testing regime. She only got put in charge of testing at a much later date.williamglenn said:
She was appointed a week after the government first claimed to have met the 100k per day target in May.Philip_Thompson said:
Eh?MaxPB said:
It has to be said, since she took over things have become terrible. Whoever was running it before was able to scale up from zero to 200k in a few months. Why did we change the management?!rottenborough said:
Journalists are now themselves hitting the no test wall, as their children get sent home from school:Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305610521840943106dixiedean said:Everyone I know,, out with this board, is talking about testing. The lack of it.
Non-political people are hearing from their friends and neighbours.
This has real cut through.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305454068278665216
Let's hope they don't allow whatever dead feline is about to drop from the skies to divert them from the shambles that is the Dido No Test and No track service.
She was running it and was the one to scale it up.
Under current circumstances, isn't this statement potentially libelous? Can legal experts (such as P_T) please advise?0 -
Something for TSE to put in his letter to Santa?
https://twitter.com/SilentKW/status/1305545673555628032?s=20
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I'm sorry but I think the EU weaponising the province are the ones quite despicable.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
I don't want to see a return to the Troubles. It may not be the biggest connection to the Troubles but I am from Warrington and was ten years old when bombs went off in Bridge Street killing a 12 year old and a 3 year old. If you think I want a return to that then you are very, very much mistaken.
Prior to the 2017 election the Irish and UK governments were working on non-intrusive ways to deal with our divergence after Brexit, it was only after May lost her majority that the EU weaponised NI and I find it disgusting.
The Good Friday Agreement was based on rejecting an all-or-nothing approach and fudging the issues. Ensuring that all sides could feel represented and their views taken into account. Not that one side is getting everything they want and the other side is shafted.
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.1 -
That Mail front page is bonkers.
What relevance does the girl with the cake have? Is she supposed to be illustrating the diabetes story or the drinking one?
Bizarre.1 -
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Ayes 340
Noes 2630 -
Aiui it was a cost saving measure as the Deloitte people don't come cheap but I'd rather have kept them on and be on the way to 400k capacity by now as was the original plan before Harding took over.rottenborough said:
Downhill rapidly from then on. But Hancock knows what he's doing.MaxPB said:
Yes, track and trace was the call centre, it was separate from testing until some time in July when they got merged and she took it over and the Deloitte people all went back to their day jobs.alex_ said:
Yep, i think Philip is mixing up test and trace with track and trace? Track and trace was what she was in charge of (which was a shambles until somebody realised they had to involve local authorities.MaxPB said:
Eveb then that was to run the call centre rather than the testing regime. She only got put in charge of testing at a much later date.williamglenn said:
She was appointed a week after the government first claimed to have met the 100k per day target in May.Philip_Thompson said:
Eh?MaxPB said:
It has to be said, since she took over things have become terrible. Whoever was running it before was able to scale up from zero to 200k in a few months. Why did we change the management?!rottenborough said:
Journalists are now themselves hitting the no test wall, as their children get sent home from school:Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305610521840943106dixiedean said:Everyone I know,, out with this board, is talking about testing. The lack of it.
Non-political people are hearing from their friends and neighbours.
This has real cut through.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305454068278665216
Let's hope they don't allow whatever dead feline is about to drop from the skies to divert them from the shambles that is the Dido No Test and No track service.
She was running it and was the one to scale it up.0 -
No. Spines.0
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Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
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Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head0 -
Indicates 19 abstentions by the Tories I think.Scott_xP said:0 -
I think Johnson will be replaced within 18 months, probably by Rishi Sunak.CorrectHorseBattery said:At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming0 -
Not compatible with a hard Brexit then.Philip_Thompson said:
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.0 -
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head0 -
I agree, yupAndy_JS said:
I think Johnson will be replaced within 18 months, probably by Rishi Sunak.CorrectHorseBattery said:At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming0 -
Johnson is doing to the Tories what Trump has done to the Republicans. They are helping him trash their country’s reputation internationally as he destroys its democracy at home. And they know it. But such is their supine partisanship they don’t care.5
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Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head2 -
Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, knows that it has a cost in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.
Well said.
Boris is a disgrace. Are there no statutes for politicians for prosecuting them when they fail in their duties? Fraud or even fiduciary failure?2 -
Are you for ******' real? And you and your pro Johnson tag team maintain former Remainers are deranged?Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.1 -
He also wants the Tories to outlaw ‘fire and rehire’ practices, whereby workers are given notice of redundancy and later rehired on worse pay and conditions, and will describe them as “not just wrong but against British values”.0
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Decent but impotent - sounds like Labour, all right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head0 -
What's being voted on now?0
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The other thing about the bill is that the Government are trying to give the impression that the only circumstances in which the powers under the bill would be triggered would be if the EU tried to prevent food exports to Northern Ireland.
If that was all that was involved then the bill would say that. But it doesn't. (Leaving aside the State Aid issue - completely ignored) it allows the Government to determine ANY exports to Northern Ireland as free from the need for customs declarations. And a lot of it is almost certainly not actually in order to placate the DUP and Northern Irish businesses, but because the Government has made absolutely no preparations whatsoever for such declarations to be required or made. They're in trouble enough in sorting out the new customs regulations in the rest of the country. For Northern Ireland they haven't even started.
So it doesn't matter whether Parliament does or doesn't authorise it. They're not doing it anyway.0 -
No Deal it is then?0
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Possibly so. It's just as likely that the reverse is true. It's far from obvious, at least to me, that Starmer has it in him to enthuse Labour's lost supporters in the Midlands and the North.CorrectHorseBattery said:At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming2 -
I thought he is in isolationCorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
There are likely to be more rebels on the amendment, assuming that the government doesn't back down in some way. Still, the government's majority is sufficient to allow them to do spectacularly stupid things, yes.Philip_Thompson said:0 -
Yeah at least we have some principles, your account represents everything I despise about the Tory Party, it's a shame you give decent people like @Big_G_NorthWales and even @Philip_Thompson a bad nameBluestBlue said:
Decent but impotent - sounds like Labour, all right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head1 -
What? Gove's brass neck. I agree with that too.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I agree with thatScott_xP said:1 -
Of the previous 3 PMs and LOTOs, by far the outstanding 2 were Dave and Ed.CorrectHorseBattery said:At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming
Not a great deal between them.
Streets ahead of the 2 that followed for both of them.
It is Ed's great tragedy. His opposite number.1 -
He's doing it from homeBig_G_NorthWales said:
I thought he is in isolationCorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Absolutely compatible.Foxy said:
Not compatible with a hard Brexit then.Philip_Thompson said:
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.
Hard Brexit, soft border.0 -
Polls suggest the Labour vote has come back more strongly in the lost seats than the main voting intention.ladupnorth said:
Possibly so. It's just as likely that the reverse is true. It's far from obvious, at least to me, that Starmer has it in him to enthuse Labour's lost supporters in the Midlands and the North.CorrectHorseBattery said:At some point we must conclude that Keir Starmer is lucky to be facing Boris Johnson and not somebody else.
I think that moment is coming
Not being Corbyn is a big draw factor0 -
Your last sentence shows your utter ignorance of the topic. Once Britain decided to leave the EU there has to be a border with the EU - either in Ireland, which undermines the GFA or in the Irish Sea between NI and the rest of the U.K. Them’s the choices. Pointing this out is not weaponising anything.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sorry but I think the EU weaponising the province are the ones quite despicable.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
I don't want to see a return to the Troubles. It may not be the biggest connection to the Troubles but I am from Warrington and was ten years old when bombs went off in Bridge Street killing a 12 year old and a 3 year old. If you think I want a return to that then you are very, very much mistaken.
Prior to the 2017 election the Irish and UK governments were working on non-intrusive ways to deal with our divergence after Brexit, it was only after May lost her majority that the EU weaponised NI and I find it disgusting.
The Good Friday Agreement was based on rejecting an all-or-nothing approach and fudging the issues. Ensuring that all sides could feel represented and their views taken into account. Not that one side is getting everything they want and the other side is shafted.
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.
The government had a choice and it chose a border in the Irish Sea. Now it is blaming others for its choice and acting in a way which puts that hard worn peace at risk. Saying that it doesn’t want this doesn't mean a hill of beans when its actions undermine what it says and it ignores all warnings from this with much greater knowledge of this - like the Chief Justice of NI or the people who actually negotiated the GFA.3 -
So a comfortable majority for the government in the end then and the border in the Irish Sea is one step closer to removal1
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Could have kept them on with money to spare had they just set the budget for the moonshot at a mere £99b.MaxPB said:
Aiui it was a cost saving measure as the Deloitte people don't come cheap but I'd rather have kept them on and be on the way to 400k capacity by now as was the original plan before Harding took over.rottenborough said:
Downhill rapidly from then on. But Hancock knows what he's doing.MaxPB said:
Yes, track and trace was the call centre, it was separate from testing until some time in July when they got merged and she took it over and the Deloitte people all went back to their day jobs.alex_ said:
Yep, i think Philip is mixing up test and trace with track and trace? Track and trace was what she was in charge of (which was a shambles until somebody realised they had to involve local authorities.MaxPB said:
Eveb then that was to run the call centre rather than the testing regime. She only got put in charge of testing at a much later date.williamglenn said:
She was appointed a week after the government first claimed to have met the 100k per day target in May.Philip_Thompson said:
Eh?MaxPB said:
It has to be said, since she took over things have become terrible. Whoever was running it before was able to scale up from zero to 200k in a few months. Why did we change the management?!rottenborough said:
Journalists are now themselves hitting the no test wall, as their children get sent home from school:Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1305610521840943106dixiedean said:Everyone I know,, out with this board, is talking about testing. The lack of it.
Non-political people are hearing from their friends and neighbours.
This has real cut through.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305454068278665216
Let's hope they don't allow whatever dead feline is about to drop from the skies to divert them from the shambles that is the Dido No Test and No track service.
She was running it and was the one to scale it up.
0 -
He wants 'fire without rehire' instead? That's a curious reading of 'British values'.CorrectHorseBattery said:He also wants the Tories to outlaw ‘fire and rehire’ practices, whereby workers are given notice of redundancy and later rehired on worse pay and conditions, and will describe them as “not just wrong but against British values”.
0 -
To be replaced with? Have you any ideas yet? You've had 4 years nowHYUFD said:So a comfortable majority for the government in the end then and the border in the Irish Sea is one step closer to removal
0 -
Quite obviously not. A hard border means customs, either on land or sea.Philip_Thompson said:
Absolutely compatible.Foxy said:
Not compatible with a hard Brexit then.Philip_Thompson said:
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.
Hard Brexit, soft border.0 -
It’s GOP stuff from Phil. Hyper-partisanship that will allow anything as long as it’s done by his side.Mexicanpete said:
Are you for ******' real? And you and your pro Johnson tag team maintain former Remainers are deranged?Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
2 -
Hopefully the Tory revolt will be higher on amendments on the specific law-smashing clause, and Third Reading if necessary, but it would need at least another 30 to switch sides, which sadly seems unlikely from the cowed herd of sheep on the government benches.
All eyes on the whips office for now.0 -
0
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Agreed, Ed M would be a more heavyweight Shadow Chancellor than Anneliese Dodds, he plus Thomas Symonds as Shadow Home Secretary still would be a stronger Starmer top team, though Nandy still rather lightweight as Shadow Foreign SecretaryCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1305618372743368704
Keir will grow into the role.
Ed M for Shadow Chancellor, me thinks0 -
The amendment will fail and the bill will pass, mark my words.
Johnson won his big majority and we're all paying for it, those opposed to this action must constructively ensure we can defeat him in the next GE1 -
Preferable to indecent but potent, in my view, which veers more towards fascism.BluestBlue said:
Decent but impotent - sounds like Labour, all right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head1 -
Tearing up international law and reneging on treaty commitments, having lied to the British people, may not be the smartest move if we do end up in no deal country. It’s the lying bit that will be the killer.0
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Yes so have customs. My solution is quite simple: customs with self-declaration.Foxy said:
Quite obviously not. A hard border means customs, either on land or sea.Philip_Thompson said:
Absolutely compatible.Foxy said:
Not compatible with a hard Brexit then.Philip_Thompson said:
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.
Hard Brexit, soft border.
Just get businesses to self-declare what customs they owe and get them to pay it and move on. Exactly like businesses already self-declare what VAT, PAYE and other taxes they owe. Just rely upon self-declarations. Businesses deal with it in the way they already deal with a plethora of other taxes and no border posts because security of the island is more important than the risk of people not declaring their taxes properly.0 -
Indeed some of us predicted that the government would win. Because Tory MPs - much like Labour MPs before them - have no principles and no courage.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/09/11/promises-promises-then-and-now/2 -
Yes because we believe a single word Boris says. As a confirmed leave voter and one that would prefer a hard brexit I am a lot more concerned by the Boris power grab than I am with what the EU are doing. If he gets this bill through as far as I am concerned we no longer have a legitimate government as it has ceased to be accountable either to mp's or the judiciaryPhilip_Thompson said:
That's a fair point about the Parliament v the Executive, quite frankly to me a better point than the international law one.stodge said:
That's an interesting turn of phrase. My issue is less with the EU and NI aspects than the power-grab by the Executive.Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
The Bill empowers Ministers at the expense of Parliament and what I struggle to with is those who continually assert the sovereignty of Parliament are supine in the face of the abdication of this sovereignty to Ministers who are themselves subject to the control of No.10 and the Prime Minister.
I have no issue whatsoever with Parliament re-asserting sovereignty and taking back control from the EU but I didn't support that in order for it to cede much of that sovereignty to the Executive.
There is a need for accountability and scrutiny of the Executive and that's the function of Parliament - to hold Ministers including the Prime Minister to account.
This is typical Boris Johnson and similar to what he did as Mayor of London which was to take more powers into his office (Police, transport) and reduce his accountability to the Greater London Assembly.
The Neill amendment deals with the Parliament v Executive issue . . . it doesn't really deal with the international law one. I'd be quite happy to see this bill go through with the Neill amendment. Require a Statutory Instrument and a Commons vote for any actions taken under this Bill, though interestingly Boris said that would happen which makes me wonder what the difference is between the Bill unamended and with the Amendment anyway?0 -
We should have kicked out Corbyn much earlierCyclefree said:
Indeed some of us predicted that the government would win. Because Tory MPs - much like Labour MPs before them - have no principles and no courage.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head0 -
Loads of people have already called for a replacement for Furlough. Does Starmer ever say anything original?CorrectHorseBattery said:1 -
About the Lords stopping the bill...
MPs are voting on the money resolution for the UK Internal Market Bill
The money resolution authorises the spending of public money in relation to the bill
A money bill is a bill that in the opinion of the House of Commons Speaker is concerned only with national taxation, public money or loans.
A bill that is certified as a money bill and which has been passed by the Commons will become law after one month, with or without the approval of the House of Lords, under the terms of the Parliament Acts.2 -
That is the only time that chilli sauce seems like a good idea, when queuing outside the Mecca for the drunk.Mexicanpete said:
2 -
Really? You seem to have no trouble doling out extreme partisanship all day - do you imagine that it's just a one-way process, or that others might have feelings equal and opposite to your own?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Yeah at least we have some principles, your account represents everything I despise about the Tory Party, it's a shame you give decent people like @Big_G_NorthWales and even @Philip_Thompson a bad nameBluestBlue said:
Decent but impotent - sounds like Labour, all right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head
0 -
From the Guardian:Alistair said:Just checking in with America
https://twitter.com/Ajzionts/status/1305540415957991427?s=19
Oh."Ravnsborg has received six traffic tickets for speeding in South Dakota over the last six years. He also received tickets for a seatbelt violation and for driving a vehicle without a proper exhaust and muffler system."
Clearly Attorney Generals in South Dakota have the same respect for the rule of law as those in Westminster.0 -
Having lied to the electorate, Johnson now needs a deal more than ever. If he gets one the lie may be forgotten. If he doesn’t, it won’t be. Neither will it be forgiven.0
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Presumably we could trust people to fiddle the figures in a limited and specific way?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes so have customs. My solution is quite simple: customs with self-declaration.Foxy said:
Quite obviously not. A hard border means customs, either on land or sea.Philip_Thompson said:
Absolutely compatible.Foxy said:
Not compatible with a hard Brexit then.Philip_Thompson said:
That is what should happen with NI now. Just fudge the border issues, like the Irish and British were planning pre-2017.Cyclefree said:
It’s still daft. And, frankly, bloody offensive. NI suffered decades of bombing and violence which it has taken years to move in from and slowly begin to build a peaceful province and future. And now this is being put at risk because of this lying government’s casual disregard for the agreement put in place to achieve that, as the NI Chief Justice has warned. A province which knows what disregard for the rule of law really means, knows that this is not a game, j own that it has a coat in blood and lives lost and lives ruined and endless heartache is being used by Johnson to cover his incompetence and lies and his little helpers then dare accuse the EU of being like a bomb which needs defusing. It is utterly despicable.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm bloody serious. I've said the same thing sober or anything else for years now.Stark_Dawning said:
Not quite there yet - with your spoof of SeanT's late-night bibulous rants - but a good effort.Philip_Thompson said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. The EU feel they have no necessity to compromise, they've turned NI into a bomb to hold over the UK to blackmail us into doing whatever they want.Pulpstar said:
You're unhinged !Philip_Thompson said:
We've been in extremis for the past 4 years.Pulpstar said:Ben Spencer's line was correct in my opinion
- This is legislation we could introduce in extremis. We're not in that extremis and it harms our negotiations with the EU.
The EU have weaponised NI for 4 years. This is disarming the bomb.
Enough is enough!
Neither a border in the Irish Sea, nor on the Irish border.
Hard Brexit, soft border.
Just get businesses to self-declare what customs they owe and get them to pay it and move on. Exactly like businesses already self-declare what VAT, PAYE and other taxes they owe. Just rely upon self-declarations. Businesses deal with it in the way they already deal with a plethora of other taxes and no border posts because security of the island is more important than the risk of people not declaring their taxes properly.0 -
Shame the Conservatives only limit the ambition of unfettered trade to within UK borders.CorrectHorseBattery said:2 -
Like I said, I have principles. You have none, just what's best for the Tory PartyBluestBlue said:
Really? You seem to have no trouble doling out extreme partisanship all day - do you imagine that it's just a one-way process, or that others might have feelings equal and opposite to your own?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Yeah at least we have some principles, your account represents everything I despise about the Tory Party, it's a shame you give decent people like @Big_G_NorthWales and even @Philip_Thompson a bad nameBluestBlue said:
Decent but impotent - sounds like Labour, all right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ed is more of a decent man than Boris Johnson will ever be.BluestBlue said:
Don't worry - Starmer will grow into losing, just like good old Ed did.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Literally nobody here said the Government was going to lose this.BluestBlue said:Lol - you mean Miliband's whining bullshit didn't win the day?
Colour me shocked!
Labour lives rent free in your head1 -
Damn, that's got to be life in prison, surely? How would you mistake a person for a deer?Alistair said:Just checking in with America
https://twitter.com/Ajzionts/status/1305540415957991427?s=19
Oh.0 -
I don't think a bill that authorises spending of public money automatically becomes a money bill. For obvious reasons.Pulpstar said:About the Lords stopping the bill...
MPs are voting on the money resolution for the UK Internal Market Bill
The money resolution authorises the spending of public money in relation to the bill
A money bill is a bill that in the opinion of the House of Commons Speaker is concerned only with national taxation, public money or loans.
A bill that is certified as a money bill and which has been passed by the Commons will become law after one month, with or without the approval of the House of Lords, under the terms of the Parliament Acts.0 -
Clearly Attorney Generals in South Dakota have the same respect for the rule of law as those in Westminster.alex_ said:
From the Guardian:Alistair said:Just checking in with America
https://twitter.com/Ajzionts/status/1305540415957991427?s=19
Oh."Ravnsborg has received six traffic tickets for speeding in South Dakota over the last six years. He also received tickets for a seatbelt violation and for driving a vehicle without a proper exhaust and muffler system."
If they said it was a dog and got their policeman lover to cover it up...
That's Line of Duty Series 1.
Mother of God!!0 -
@Pagan2 - do not use language like that here.0
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They trashed the UK’s international reputation and rejected the rule of law for a Tweet!CorrectHorseBattery said:
0
This discussion has been closed.