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  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,242
    kinabalu said:

    I fear you're right. So so depressing.
    The Culture war was launched decades ago by the Left. It is too late for you to start crying about it now.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,954

    I can't get over the idiocy of Raab. I've never been a fan of his but to me this is worse than his comments about the importance of Dover.

    Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.

    Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.

    The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.

    Was Raab really that ignorant or was it game planned by Dom as a 6D chess move? Promulgate the idea that kneeling stems from a low-brow TV fantasy drama, this then reflects poorly on BLM, who look like they're smashing up statues simply because they watch too much crap TV, this then reflects well on Boris, who knows Latin and long words and stuff. It's naughty, it's underhand, but it just might work!
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    kinabalu said:

    Raab is right not to do it if he doesn't want to. It would look phony and forced. The sort of thing which detracts from the cause rather than helps it.

    But he has spoilt things somewhat by talking utter bollox about "kneeling" and "Game of Thrones". Why not say he is "not up for token gestures" rather than just not up for THIS token gesture?

    As it is, it begs the obvious question -

    "Ok, Dom, understood, kneeling is a no no, except to the Queen, so how about doing something else to demonstrate your anti-racist credentials? Something that does not make you think of Her Majesty or Game of Thrones. Like - yes this would surely work - how about you put a black glove on, lower your eyes to the floor, and raise a fist? Cool with that?"

    See what I mean? - He is being a bit of a plonker, I'm afraid.
    How about something old fashioned and just saying you do not support racism? Not sure this insistence on some kind of body sign is necessary .Hitler used to like nazi salutes by sportspeople and we have sensibly moved away from forced (or coerced ) symbolism in the last 80 years only to have it thrust upon us again. It may come down to Amercians being a bit more show off than the British . Given we are trying to not import their race relations it seems odd we have to do some kind of sign be it kneeling, fist raising etc
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,969

    When Brown and Darling did this it was BAD. I take it, now Johnson and Sunak are using the QA device it is good.

    I remember 40 odd years ago my economics A level tutor told me increases in M3 was inflationary and generally BAD. Presumably increases in M3 are now good.
    It is Pandora's box and it has been opened. Politicians see literally free money with no immediate or obvious downside. What's not to like?

    Of course its "free" until the day it is not. In my view it remains very dangerous. We got away with the last time mainly because there had been significant reductions in the supply of money as CDOs and the like were wound down. Its not immediately obvious to me what the equivalent is this time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Steve Bell has done it too often for it not to be deliberate, but he gets away with it because there is a level of deniability. There is no deniability about drawing Abbott as a monkey. In any case, that The Guardian uses him is an utter disgrace.

    There is no deniability about drawing Patel as a cow either. Its literally the same concept and utterly racist.

    That the Guardian uses him is an utter disgrace, that it hasn't sacked him and the editor who approved it being published and apologised fulsomely is a disgrace.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    IshmaelZ said:

    You made that up in the hope that PB tory gammons all across the country will now be balancing precariously on their skulls, didn't you?

    Not easy, typing upside down.
    :smile: - you know me so well.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Was Raab really that ignorant or was it game planned by Dom as a 6D chess move? Promulgate the idea that kneeling stems from a low-brow TV fantasy drama, this then reflects poorly on BLM, who look like they're smashing up statues simply because they watch too much crap TV, this then reflects well on Boris, who knows Latin and long words and stuff. It's naughty, it's underhand, but it just might work!
    The comments underneath the Mail's article show that section of the public is foursquare behind Raab. Thousands to single figures in upvotes.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,011

    The Culture war was launched decades ago by the Left. It is too late for you to start crying about it now.

    When do you think it started, out of interest?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,728

    Was Raab really that ignorant or was it game planned by Dom as a 6D chess move? Promulgate the idea that kneeling stems from a low-brow TV fantasy drama, this then reflects poorly on BLM, who look like they're smashing up statues simply because they watch too much crap TV, this then reflects well on Boris, who knows Latin and long words and stuff. It's naughty, it's underhand, but it just might work!

    No, it was so dumb even No 10 are unhappy

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273583733019496454
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,969

    I can't get over the idiocy of Raab. I've never been a fan of his but to me this is worse than his comments about the importance of Dover.

    Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.

    Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.

    The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.

    I agree. A remarkably tin ear. Bewildered by those praising him this morning.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,400

    One could argue that his job is to be a punctilious politician who gets things done, not be a general-knowledge expert in a pub quiz team. (This was the line when he ran into trouble over the Dover-Calais crossing.)
    There is pub quiz team knowledge and knowing ferries run to and from Dover to Calais and there is a chasm of knowledge in between.

    Less picked up was In the same speech he also showed he had not a clue what 'just in time' meant (He seemed to think it was a case of not letting strawberries go off and flowers drooping). If you are negotiating Brexit and don't know that we are in deep deep trouble.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,954
    Scott_xP said:

    No, it was so dumb even No 10 are unhappy

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273583733019496454
    That's what Dom wants you to think!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    Stocky said:

    I can do a hand stand. Will I make 100?
    On one hand?

    If so - great chance.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IshmaelZ said:

    The US constitution. The point was he wouldn't stand, but just sitting on his arse looked disrespectful, so he had to think of another way to mark the national anthem.
    Indeed it is about respect not subservience. Just as joining in with the symbolism is about respect not subservience.

    If I enter a Temple and am asked to kneel I will kneel, not because I believe in their religion (I don't) but out of respect. Kaepernick knelt to show respect to the flag and anthem while symbolising his protest.

    Joining in the protest is not about subjugating anyone. It is entirely about respect and we should treat each other with respect not subjugation.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,011

    There is no deniability about drawing Patel as a cow either. Its literally the same concept and utterly racist.

    That the Guardian uses him is an utter disgrace, that it hasn't sacked him and the editor who approved it being published and apologised fulsomely is a disgrace.

    I am not so sure. Black people have been portrayed as monkeys - sub-humans - for centuries. I don't think the Hindus and Cows meme is so commonly used. The Patel cartoon is the first time I ever saw it and had to think about it, for example. As you say, though, it is indefensible.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,547
    Good time for Putin to do some annexation.

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1273576441570111488

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060
    MaxPB said:

    Bending the knee has for centuries been an act of subservience. Some aspect of this is definitely borne from some people wanting others to be subservient, though definitely not all. I suspect it's the same set of people who want to be "on the right side of history".
    In this case it comes from American football, and has little or nothing to do with subservience.
    Taking a knee, long before Kaepernick's protest, is quite a different form of symbolism:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_kneel
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/take-a-knee
    Quarterback Vinny Testaverde took a knee on the final play of the game, symbolically closing out his 21-year career in the place it began.
    It's a sign of respect and concern to take a knee when a player is hurt...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    In fairness that is as many in the top 50 as the entire EU. It's almost as if there was a link between adequately funding Universities and their performance, isn't it?
    I may be wrong about this , but do get the impression that league tables re-standing of Universities are largely based on the breadth and depth of the research facilities provided for postgraduate work. Do they really convey much at all in respect of first degrees - BA and Bsc courses?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    How about something old fashioned and just saying you do not support racism? Not sure this insistence on some kind of body sign is necessary .Hitler used to like nazi salutes by sportspeople and we have sensibly moved away from forced (or coerced ) symbolism in the last 80 years only to have it thrust upon us again. It may come down to Amercians being a bit more show off than the British . Given we are trying to not import their race relations it seems odd we have to do some kind of sign be it kneeling, fist raising etc
    Well indeed saying you don't want to join in is understandable.

    Claiming its about Game of Thrones is not.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307

    Indeed it is about respect not subservience. Just as joining in with the symbolism is about respect not subservience.

    If I enter a Temple and am asked to kneel I will kneel, not because I believe in their religion (I don't) but out of respect. Kaepernick knelt to show respect to the flag and anthem while symbolising his protest.

    Joining in the protest is not about subjugating anyone. It is entirely about respect and we should treat each other with respect not subjugation.
    And forcing people to keel isn't subjugation.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:

    No, it was so dumb even No 10 are unhappy

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273583733019496454

    You've never heard of Good Cop / Bad Cop, have you? The message is out:

    'You kneel if you want to. The Foreign Secretary's not for kneeling' :smile:
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    Ooo you are awful - but I like you.
    ;)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dr_spyn said:

    And forcing people to keel isn't subjugation.
    Nobody should be forced to do. I don't think anyone has said anyone should be forced to do so.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    MrEd said:

    Christ, this is unbelievable, I have found myself agreeing with Kinablu twice in a morning. Yes, GoT has a disproportionate following amongst media types / higher income households but, if you want a wider and more normal programme to reference, do Coronation Street or Emmerdale.
    That is a little concerning.

    But it would appear it was a "culture war" thing and so was aimed at the alt right hipster crowd.

    I know! - What are we coming to?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited June 2020

    Indeed it is about respect not subservience. Just as joining in with the symbolism is about respect not subservience.

    If I enter a Temple and am asked to kneel I will kneel, not because I believe in their religion (I don't) but out of respect. Kaepernick knelt to show respect to the flag and anthem while symbolising his protest.

    Joining in the protest is not about subjugating anyone. It is entirely about respect and we should treat each other with respect not subjugation.
    I hate anthems as well especially at sport events (oh god did i sigh when they started doing it at the Ashes) . I firmly believe sport should be free of politics . The premier League should not be forcing players (even through extreme peer pressure and you will look a knob if you dont do it when everybody else does arguments) to do BLM stuff (especially as one of the aims of BLM is to crush capitalism)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Living Marxism's attempts to re-write the history of the camps was motivated by the fact that in their heart of hearts, these people applauded those camps and sympathised with their cause and wished to see it triumph. That was the central and - in the final hour, the only - issue. Shame, then, on those fools, supporters of the pogrom, cynics and dilettantes who supported them, gave them credence and endorsed their vile enterprise.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2000/mar/15/pressandpublishing.tvnews
    A massively important article and one that should be repeatedly shoved in the face of people on here who continually post shit from the RCP cadre to the board.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    WATO will look at the 'missing' virus app.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,400

    The symbolism isn't bending the knee though and kneeling has other symbolism than that and has for centuries too. Kneeling can symbolise respect, reverence many things.

    I'm an atheist but I have knelt before in both Churches and Temples long before any of this came about. In those instances it wasn't about subservience or subjugation it was about showing respect.
    Personally I find this difficult. I would not kneel nor did I clap, but I support those who do. I just find it all a bit personally embarrassing, but then I don't express emotions.

    Re a church - I will go to a wedding or christening, but I will not kneel. I will sit and I will stand when others do, but I won't kneel, I won't sing, I won't close my eyes. I will not take part.

    I would not make any gesture to royalty (chance would be a fine thing) other than to shake hands and talk to them as equals.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I hate anthems as well especially at sport events (oh god did i sigh when they started doing it at the Ashes) . I firmly believe sport should be free of politics . The premier League should not be forcing players (even through extreme peer pressure and you will look a knob if you dont do it when everybody else does arguments) to do BLM stuff (especially as one of the aims of BLM is to crush capitalism)
    Standing up to racism is very relevant to football. Kick It Out and other campaigns have long predated this.

    Taking a symbolic knee to show respect against racism seems little different to me than them wearing a poppy at Remembrance Day or holding a minutes silence then.

    Ending racism doesn't mean crushing capitalism.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,242

    When do you think it started, out of interest?

    Well I first heard the term used by Socialist Worker Party speakers in the current context when I was at university in the 1980s. I had always assumed it arose at that time as a fight back against Thatcherism. Whether it was around earlier I don't know as I was not involved in politics before then.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Standing up to racism is very relevant to football. Kick It Out and other campaigns have long predated this.

    Taking a symbolic knee to show respect against racism seems little different to me than them wearing a poppy at Remembrance Day or holding a minutes silence then.

    Ending racism doesn't mean crushing capitalism.
    It does to Black Lives Matter.

    Why does that make them worthy of any respect whatsoever?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,316

    WATO will look at the 'missing' virus app.

    It may even prove to be a good thing that it is missing, as time and money spent on it would be better used elsewhere.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    It does to Black Lives Matter.

    Why does that make them worthy of any respect whatsoever?
    That's why I've said deal with the legitimate concerns, stand up to racism, kick it out and give no succour to any other nonsense.

    When you deal with the legitimate concerns, you have no reason to hear them for their illegitimate ones.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,400
    kinabalu said:

    On one hand?

    If so - great chance.
    If he can do a one handed handstand at 99 I would say there is a good chance he doesn't make it to 100.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,242

    Actually you are wrong, I have followed this story since before he was kneeling and kneeling was not his original protest. The original protest was sitting on a bench during the anthem but that was condemned as disrespectful to the national anthem and to the veterans.

    So after speaking with veterans groups he changed the protest from sitting on a bench during the anthem to kneeling, because that was more respectful than sitting.

    Again kneeling is a traditional symbolism of respect not just subjugation.
    No it really isn't. That is just desperate spinning.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,301

    538 have got their 2020 polling averages up now:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-polling-averages-show-biden-leads-trump-by-9-points-nationally/

    currently looks like Biden's easiest route to victory is winning Michigan + Florida + states Clinton won
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    Er, Scott, I hope you're sitting down, but you do know that by your own logic you're praising Boris for subjugating Raab, don't you?

    Yes, you have praised Boris - I knew we'd get you on board one day! :smile:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060

    It seems your ignorance is equally remarkable. Kaepernick's kneeling was a means of non violent protest. That is why it struck such a chord. Kneeling by the police and authorities is a sign of submission, of repentance. It is crass, pointless and has annoyed a great many black commentators as it makes it seem as if the BLM protestors want subjugation of the whites rather than equality.

    In a US context it is nothing of the sort.
    It's an indication for hostilities to cease temporarily - a little like calling the mark in rugby, though the comparison isn't exact.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,728

    but you do know that by your own logic you're praising Boris for subjugating Raab, don't you?

    Why would you think it was BoZo?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060

    Steve Bell has done it too often for it not to be deliberate, but he gets away with it because there is a level of deniability. There is no deniability about drawing Abbott as a monkey. In any case, that The Guardian uses him is an utter disgrace.

    As far as I'm concerned, Bell is at an end.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    No it really isn't. That is just desperate spinning.
    It is the truth.

    https://twitter.com/MaioccoNBCS/status/771582927075315712

    Check the date on this. It is about respect.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,242
    Nigelb said:

    In a US context it is nothing of the sort.
    It's an indication for hostilities to cease temporarily - a little like calling the mark in rugby, though the comparison isn't exact.
    'Kneel before Zod!..... just to show how much you respect my point of view'
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    'Kneel before Zod!..... just to show how much you respect my point of view'
    Kneeling together in respect is not the same as one person kneeling before another 🙄
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,969
    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong about this , but do get the impression that league tables re-standing of Universities are largely based on the breadth and depth of the research facilities provided for postgraduate work. Do they really convey much at all in respect of first degrees - BA and Bsc courses?
    I think it does but you can argue about the weighting. Suppose you are studying physics and you have the choice of learning in a cutting edge laboratory with people testing the boundaries of knowledge in that subject and willing to let you play even a small part or learning the same stuff that has been churned out in a school like manner for you to learn and repeat on demand: which is going to make you a better physicist?

    I think that the answer is obvious in that example but I would accept that there are many other potential examples which might not be so clear cut. What I think is clear is the University is or should be the equivalent of the mediaeval monastery, a combination of a place which does practical things like teach people how to read and also a place of scholarship and learning.

    The fact that we have 4 Universities ranked in the top 10 in the world is undoubtedly one of our greatest strengths and we need to give urgent though as to how we avoid losing it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060

    Indeed it is about respect not subservience. Just as joining in with the symbolism is about respect not subservience.

    If I enter a Temple and am asked to kneel I will kneel, not because I believe in their religion (I don't) but out of respect. Kaepernick knelt to show respect to the flag and anthem while symbolising his protest.

    Joining in the protest is not about subjugating anyone. It is entirely about respect and we should treat each other with respect not subjugation.
    Well said, Philip.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    edited June 2020
    MaxPB said:

    You're fellow travellers revel in equivocating about racism levelled at people like me.
    Well if so they shouldn't.

    I'm curious as to whether you feel the following statements are both true and - if so - which one you feel to be more true?

    (i) Racism against Asians in the UK is just as prevalent as that against Blacks but Asians on the whole are better at rising above it and succeeding regardless.

    (ii) Asians on the whole do better than Blacks in the UK and a big reason for this is that although they do face racism they do not face as much of it as Blacks do.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:

    Why would you think it was BoZo?
    If not him, then you're praising ... Cummings! Which I assume would cause some sort of blue screen event or logic error.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,242
    Nigelb said:

    Well said, Philip.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQd3Tq5iDE
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,728

    If not him, then you're praising ... Cummings!

    Why would you assume it was Cummings?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    kamski said:


    538 have got their 2020 polling averages up now:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-polling-averages-show-biden-leads-trump-by-9-points-nationally/

    currently looks like Biden's easiest route to victory is winning Michigan + Florida + states Clinton won

    No way is Biden not going to give everything to win Penn.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,211

    If not him, then you're praising ... Cummings! Which I assume would cause some sort of blue screen event or logic error.
    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    6.5m in Germany have downloaded their app in first 24 hours.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    Scott_xP said:
    And it'll still take until winter?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,728
    So the question now is, did they waste more money on the app than they spent on the blow job?

    Sorry, respray.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQd3Tq5iDE
    Again there's a difference between kneeling alone or with someone and kneeling before someone.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    Scott_xP said:

    So the question now is, did they waste more money on the app than they spent on the blow job?

    Sorry, respray.

    Going from blow job to respray seems quite tenuous.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    Scott_xP said:
    Really? Nobody has told BBC WATO, who are literally talking about the centralised app now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,990
    Scott_xP said:
    So Boris was right. Britain's tracing app will be a world beating!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    RobD said:

    And it'll still take until winter?
    German's is open source iirc.

    Just grab the code from Github and get the f on with it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    German's is open source iirc.

    Just grab the code from Github and get the f on with it.
    Yeah...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,108
    edited June 2020
    kamski said:


    538 have got their 2020 polling averages up now:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-polling-averages-show-biden-leads-trump-by-9-points-nationally/

    currently looks like Biden's easiest route to victory is winning Michigan + Florida + states Clinton won

    FL going Dem means Biden just has to hold everything Clinton did in 2016 and take literally ANY other battleground state that Trump won. I can't see Trump sweeping AZ, NC and all the rust belt if FL is gone. FLorida indicates it's highly likely over.
    Biden can win without Florida too, mind.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    edited June 2020
    kjh said:

    If he can do a one handed handstand at 99 I would say there is a good chance he doesn't make it to 100.
    :smile: - I'd say it depends how often and where he's doing it.

    If he's constantly at it, including out in public - kind of showing off and giving it the big "I am" - then, yes, there's going to be an accident.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    So, yet another NHS IT disaster.

    When do they ever learn.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    German's is open source iirc.

    Just grab the code from Github and get the f on with it.
    Seems reasonable.

    I said if the centralised model didn't work they should switch it, I don't see a reason for this to cause a delay. They should have had a team working on Plan B already and given the code is open source from Germany how long should it take to adapt?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060
    .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQd3Tq5iDE
    Give it a rest, Richard.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    I think it does but you can argue about the weighting. Suppose you are studying physics and you have the choice of learning in a cutting edge laboratory with people testing the boundaries of knowledge in that subject and willing to let you play even a small part or learning the same stuff that has been churned out in a school like manner for you to learn and repeat on demand: which is going to make you a better physicist?

    I think that the answer is obvious in that example but I would accept that there are many other potential examples which might not be so clear cut. What I think is clear is the University is or should be the equivalent of the mediaeval monastery, a combination of a place which does practical things like teach people how to read and also a place of scholarship and learning.

    The fact that we have 4 Universities ranked in the top 10 in the world is undoubtedly one of our greatest strengths and we need to give urgent though as to how we avoid losing it.
    I would agree with that , but not really so sure that a student attending Medical School at - say - Leeds or London Universities is likely to emerge having less to offer the world than someone from Oxbridge. That is probably even more true of the Humanities and Social Sciences - English,History, Politics, Philosophy , Law etc.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,520
    I always assumed that the baseball players kneeling when the national anthem was playing was a declaration as black people they felt alienated from the American dream, and that they were being forced to be subservient to it, so they were satirically kneeling before it. I don't know how it evolved into the current situation, nor do I want to know. It's one thing to decide to make a political gesture - quite another to expect someone else to. The former is an expression of freedom and personal choice; the latter borders on authoritarianism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060
    Seroprevalence of Antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Healthcare Workers in Non-epidemic Region: A Report from Iwate Prefecture in Japan
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.15.20132316v1
    Background: As of June 8, 2020, Iwate is the only one of 47 prefectures in Japan with no confirmed coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases. Serological survey for COVID-19 antibodies is crucial in area with low prevalence as well as epidemic area when addressing health and social issues caused by COVID-19. Rapid, accurate and easy-to-use antibody tests as well laboratory-based antibody tests are necessary for confirming immunity in a given community. Methods:Serum samples from healthcare workers (n = 1,000, mean 40 ± 11 years) of Iwate Prefectural Central Hospital, Iwate, Japan were tested for the prevalence of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) antibodies. Two laboratory-based quantitative tests (Abbott Architect SARS-CoV-2 IgG and Roche Elecsys Anti-SARS-CoV-2 assays) and one point-of-care (POC) qualitative test (Alfa Instant-view plus COVID-19 Test) were performed simultaneously. Sensitivity and specificity were 100%, 99.6% in Abbott assay; 100%, 99.8% in Roche assay; 97.8%, 94.6% in Alfa POC test, respectively. Results:The laboratory-based quantitative tests showed positive in 4 of 1,000 samples (0.4%) (95% CI: 0.01 to 0.79): 4/1,000 (0.4%) (95% CI: 0.01 to 0.79) in Abbott; 0/1,000 (0%) in Roche. Positive samples were not detected for both Abbott and Roche assays. The POC qualitative test showed positive in 33 of 1,000 samples (3.3%) (95% CI: 2.19 to 4.41), showing higher rates than those of the laboratory-based quantitative tests. There were no samples with simultaneous positive reaction for two quantitative tests and a POC test. Conclusions: Infected COVID-2 cases were not confirmed by a retrospective serological study in healthcare workers of our hospital. The POC qualitative tests with lower specificity have the potential for higher false positive reactions than the laboratory-based quantitative tests in areas with very low prevalence of COVID-19....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    Seems reasonable.

    I said if the centralised model didn't work they should switch it, I don't see a reason for this to cause a delay. They should have had a team working on Plan B already and given the code is open source from Germany how long should it take to adapt?
    Given there is no centralised database, shouldn't it be really quick to implement?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552
    Nigelb said:

    As far as I'm concerned, Bell is at an end.
    Finding your inner woke and cancelling him? :smile:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    6.5m in Germany have downloaded their app in first 24 hours.

    I'd download the German app if it worked here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,888
    US unemployment. 1.5 million new claims. 20 million in total 14.1%.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    MaxPB said:

    I'd download the German app if it worked here.
    Soon you'll be able to. ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060

    Seems reasonable.

    I said if the centralised model didn't work they should switch it, I don't see a reason for this to cause a delay. They should have had a team working on Plan B already and given the code is open source from Germany how long should it take to adapt?

    https://twitter.com/marcelsalathe/status/1273535844528336896
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,552

    Standing up to racism is very relevant to football. Kick It Out and other campaigns have long predated this.

    Taking a symbolic knee to show respect against racism seems little different to me than them wearing a poppy at Remembrance Day or holding a minutes silence then.

    Ending racism doesn't mean crushing capitalism.
    Yes. Football is reliant on the talents of young black men and this issue must be keenly felt.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060
    kinabalu said:

    Finding your inner woke and cancelling him? :smile:
    No, cancelled him years ago.
    Just couldn't resist the pun.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,465
    Scott_xP said:
    Government IT project an expensive, humiliating disaster.

    Least surprising news ever.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,060
    eadric said:

    This was so bloody obvious from the start. We all said it, we all knew it.

    Yet again, the country would have been better off governed by me, doing half an hour a day, during my first gin and T, than by this shower of imbeciles

    Scarily, that might even be true.
    Though probably not.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Interesting that the Bank expects the QE to last for the rest of the year. The May indicators must have been much better than expected. It definitely looked that way to me when I went back to work, the data was a lot more positive than I expected.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    Fishing said:

    Government IT project an expensive, humiliating disaster.

    Least surprising news ever.
    As consistently warned about by many of us on here.

    Maybe no one from government does lurk and read PB after all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited June 2020
    justin124 said:

    I would agree with that , but not really so sure that a student attending Medical School at - say - Leeds or London Universities is likely to emerge having less to offer the world than someone from Oxbridge. That is probably even more true of the Humanities and Social Sciences - English,History, Politics, Philosophy , Law etc.
    Medical school is arguably a poor example as the students have to move around between hospitals, so the training is arguably more homogenised. But in any case I'm not sure how much medical undergrads get to see in the way of research, these days, compared to say zoologists or biochemists who often end up doing actual research projects and special essay topics. The special essay I did ended up determining my entire career as a researcher (in part). And there seems to be even more emphasis on actual research projects as well as science communication, literacy, etc., these days in the fields in which I am familiar.

    The other thing I am uneasy about is the merger of the polytechnics and universities. The polys did excellent work in their realm and it seemed a shame to lose them into the university mould. Edit: I'm not sure how such league tablkes take that loss into account.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,996
    Two things
    1)The man in the pic at the top of the thread looks like Corporal Jones.

    2) NEW THREAD
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,108
    Fishing said:

    Government IT project an expensive, humiliating disaster.

    Least surprising news ever.
    We all saw this coming very very easily here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,185
    RobD said:

    Soon you'll be able to. ;)
    Last I read there were discussions with Apple to let non-germans download it from teh app store.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Speaking of cultural sensitivity and respect for others..

    https://twitter.com/cairnstoon/status/1273578884819271682?s=20

    Lewis Hamilton!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,996

    So, yet another NHS IT disaster.

    When do they ever learn.

    they don't....period...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Nigelb said:

    Scarily, that might even be true.
    Though probably not.
    I think a PB all hands government of national unity would absolutely have done a better job than the government since early February. We've consistently been able to predict where the government was going to have issues and what the potential solutions were.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,969
    justin124 said:

    I would agree with that , but not really so sure that a student attending Medical School at - say - Leeds or London Universities is likely to emerge having less to offer the world than someone from Oxbridge. That is probably even more true of the Humanities and Social Sciences - English,History, Politics, Philosophy , Law etc.
    I agree it is complicated. Very, very few of us have original thoughts that are actually useful or even interesting. I certainly don't. There is a role for the University as a factory producing the next generation of white collar clones sausage like. But I do think we should aspire to better. If Scotland lost its Universities in the top 100, Edinburgh, Glasgow and St Andrews or if they were reduced to sausage makers the country would be much diminished.
This discussion has been closed.