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  • Socrates
    Socrates Posts: 10,322
    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mick_Pork said:

    anotherDave said:

    (Mick Pork once posted a graph that included 'others'. As I recall, that showed a very strong inverse correlation with UKIP.)

    I think it was a yougov but not sure TBH.

    You can quite clearly see in all of them where the most significant change across the parties happened. When UKIP rise consistently, labour rise again and the tories start to plummet. It was of course around about the time of Osbrowne's omnishambles budget. Nothing to do with Europe, immigration or welfare.

    I think you're wrong about the budget shambles.

    YouGov posted an annotated graph today (scroll down on link below)

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/02/local-elections-and-question-ukip/

    You can see that the Con line was already reverting to trend before the budget. The distortion was the earlier positive boost from Mr Cameron's EU veto. That unwound shortly before the budget.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I don't think she should have Tweeted that. She could get into trouble.
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Adrian Pearson ‏@Adrian_Pearson ora
    In South Shields postal votes alone are said to have it for Labour.

    Pearson works for the Journal (a North East paper)

  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    RobD said:



    Can it do pie charts, line graphs? We want more!!

    If it can't do an "only the lib dems can win here" bar graph then that would be disappointing.

  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Mick_Pork said:


    If it can't do an "only the lib dems can win here" bar graph then that would be disappointing.

    titter!

    In absence of the necessary button.. *like*
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    edited May 2013
    RobD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Thanks for the comments on the "graph toy"

    I think that it is sensational and absolutely love it. Once you've got the hang of it it is a great tool to bring numbers alive.

    Can it do pie charts, line graphs? We want more!!

    Yes it can, and more types of graphs, I've been having a play with it for future PB threads, and it's brilliant.

    It's given me a brilliant graph for an upcoming Ed is Crap thread.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,311
    edited May 2013
    MikeSmithson said:

    I don't think she should have Tweeted that. She could get into trouble.

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Adrian Pearson ‏@Adrian_Pearson ora
    In South Shields postal votes alone are said to have it for Labour.

    Pearson works for the Journal (a North East paper)

    Kerry McCarthy Bristol East Labour Candidate was given a caution.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11621053

    She is a qualified solicitor who forgot the basics of electoral law. Quite a few PBers and journalists spotted the tweet.
  • welshowl
    welshowl Posts: 4,464
    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
    I'd agree. Been there too, really enjoyed it, really interesting but there again I could leave after two weeks and I was probably carrying the equivalent of several months wages around for the locals in my wallet. The health and literacy achievements are great, but what a price to pay in terms of just about everything else.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    IIRC McCarthy reported exact figures from the sample...for ex "Lab 542, Con 342, LD 121" rather than a generic "Labour is doing well on postals"
  • MrJones
    MrJones Posts: 3,523
    SeanT said:

    FFS. The face of Jurgen Habermas, noted German sociologist, is actually MELTING.

    http://tinyurl.com/d4roz8y

    ????

    i suspect artificial skin like Rumpy, Barroso and Draghi.
  • philiph
    philiph Posts: 4,705
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    IIRC McCarthy reported exact figures from the sample...for ex "Lab 542, Con 342, LD 121" rather than a generic "Labour is doing well on postals"

    Postal votes, in the modern mass sense, are sent out too early. They should have a tighter time frame for distribution and return, which would also help with the practice of harvesting.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    anotherDave said:

    I think you're wrong about the budget shambles

    I know you do. I'd frankly be disappointed if any supporter of UKIP were to admit that something other than Europe or immigration could have such a significant and long lasting effect on the polls, but nonetheless it did.

    Competence and more specifically incompetence in Osbrowne's case is what did it.
    You lose that then don't be surprised that you then trail for months going into years.
    anotherDave said:

    YouGov posted an annotated graph today (scroll down on link below)

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/02/local-elections-and-question-ukip/

    You can see that the Con line was already reverting to trend before the budget. The distortion was the earlier positive boost from Mr Cameron's EU veto. That unwound shortly before the budget.

    It's interesting but it merely highlights that the flounce bounce was a bounce and nothing long lasting. The Budget shift was. Kippers will say Cam's flounce didn't last because it was a sham but whatever the explanation it clearly didn't shift things as meaningfully as the omnishambles budget did. Nor did Cammie's Cast Iron EU speech of a lifetime. Nor will any amount of speeches and posturing on welfare or immigration. UKIP will be there now to clean up should the tories be dumb enough to keep this going. The good news for UKIP is they just might be that dumb.

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,074
    MikeSmithson said:

    I don't think she should have Tweeted that. She could get into trouble.

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Adrian Pearson ‏@Adrian_Pearson ora
    In South Shields postal votes alone are said to have it for Labour.

    Pearson works for the Journal (a North East paper)

    You are what you Tweet?
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    LOL: I sometimes forget they still do this

    https://twitter.com/jmalexander1982/status/330056486669660160/photo/1
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
    Sure. But there is affection for the Government too. After all, Cuba is much better in a lot of ways than some comparable countries.

    It's just not a tyrannical Communist caricature, that's my point. It's more complex than Plato's "escaping Cubans".
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    @Philiph

    It is a shock that you do Dave the honour of suggesting he thinks. What has he done to shoot up in your estimation?

    He though long and hard about how, "as a father" he could protect the nation from Rihanna's corset -respect.

    Much as I am fond of the lass, she does get her kit off a bit too readily. I agree with Tim and Dave, as a father.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2013
    Adrian Pearson: Local election turnout levels in South Shields.

    (Andrea: in 2012 locals it was 6/7k by person and 14k by post)
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    If you look at the YouGov graph for the period since Eastleigh (ie line 4) Con is flat, Lab is significantly down and UKIP is significantly up. What does that tell us?

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/02/local-elections-and-question-ukip/
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Adrian Pearson: Local election turnout levels in South Shields.

    So much for UKIP animating people who normally don't vote. Or if they are, not enough for them to move their lazy arses off settees I guess. Unless it's been that low due to a monstrously large stay at home protest from Labour voters, but I think we always knew what the outcome would be, so that's unlikely.
  • welshowl
    welshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited May 2013
    carl said:

    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
    Sure. But there is affection for the Government too. After all, Cuba is much better in a lot of ways than some comparable countries.

    It's just not a tyrannical Communist caricature, that's my point. It's more complex than Plato's "escaping Cubans".
    You are right of course but without a fair election who knows. East German TV was full of hearty types saying they were striving to fulfill the Party's five year plan etc etc yet when they got their first chance the East Germans promptly voted the place out of existence.

    Cuba has yet to have its 1989 so we don't know what support for the Govt is. In a fair fight not that much I'd suspect. Not that they are Republicans all eager to vote for Romney either!
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited May 2013
    How soon before the novelty of the graph toy begins to wear off for people? Exact odds please.

    Not for me though, the world of politics needs more charts (they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit), but as UKIP may find out, novelty appeal can wear off quickly sometimes.

    I kid UKIPers, I've been most impressed with UKIPs resilience after years of struggle.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    kle4 said:

    How soon before the novelty of the graph toy begins to wear off for people? Exact odds please.

    Not for me though, the world of politics needs more charts (they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit)

    Around the first time it gets used on a thread on electoral reform?
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Close the doors!
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Adrian Pearson: Local election turnout levels in South Shields.

    (Andrea: in 2012 locals it was 6/7k by person and 14k by post)

    Andrea

    Wouldn't it save on paper and teller costs just to reuse the 2010 postal counts?

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 1m

    Labour in South Shields says its vote share in mid-40s, UKIP reach 30 %, Tories fall from 21 % in 2010 to single figs. Libs obliterated.
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    kle4 said:

    How soon before the novelty of the graph toy begins to wear off for people? Exact odds please.

    Not for me though, the world of politics needs more charts (they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit)

    Not for me. Being able to play with data rather than just snapshots in the thread header really adds to the site and, potentially at least, enrich discussion here.

    So easy too. I hate, for example, the ONS website.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2013
    Mail's Tim Shipman: Labour sources: they're winning South Shields but Ukip romping on high 20s maybe 30%. Tories collapse to single digits. Lib Dems obliterated

    Times' Savage: Senior Labour source: "quietly confident" on South Shields. Vote holding up. Lib Dems looking "particularly bad". Turnout around 40%.

    Mail's Chapman: South Shields: Labour expects to hold with reduced vote share in mid-40s. UKIP strong 2nd poss breaking 30%. Tories single figs, LD disaster

    SKY's Craig: Labour "quietly confident" in S Shields, their vote "in mid 40s", UKIP "hoovering up" Tories & LibDems "in high 20s, possibly breaking 30".
  • tarleton
    tarleton Posts: 18
    Mick_Pork said:

    The thing about South Shields is that because of the lack of polling there's no concrete evidence so speculation inevitably fills the gap as to how the parties are doing.

    What is worth remembering however, is that when there was a similar lack of polling in the likes of Bradford West there was still some very clear danger signals in the last day or so from the activists on the ground that a big upset was on the cards. We just haven't seen that in South Shields yet as far as I can see.

    =========================================

    There are 63,00 potential voters in S Shields and yet a mere 200 showed up to hear the charismatic nigel farage speak ...it doesn't sound like an upset to me ..it just sounds like voter apathy

    I was up in Shields 3 times this week and many folks didn't even know there was an election coming up ....UKIP have not even contested the seat since 2001 and yet we are supposed to believe there will be a new party getting 25% of the vote ?

  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited May 2013
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 1m
    Libs obliterated.

    Time to wheel out the 'doesn't matter how many you get in a seat you cannot win under FPTP' arguments.

    I know it's true, but sooner or later the fact that LDs get annihilated in strong Labour areas (and anywhere in Scotland) to virtually nothing has to be taken seriously, or they may even struggle to come up with paper candidates for these places eventually!

    And if a Labour source goes on about 'quietly confident' in a such a strong hold of a seat, they should be slapped upside the head. As should Ed M when he pulls out the 'shows the country is against the government' boilerplate. Tories would do the same in a by-election they won, but that doesn't make it less irritating - I bet the winning 'speech', such as it is, was constructed from cliche building blocks 5 minutes after David M announced he was standing down.

  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    kle4 said:

    How soon before the novelty of the graph toy begins to wear off for people? Exact odds please.

    Not for me though, the world of politics needs more charts (they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit), but as UKIP may find out, novelty appeal can wear off quickly sometimes.

    I kid UKIPers, I've been most impressed with UKIPs resilience after years of struggle.

    People will never tire of bar charts.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,074
    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    LibDems run 0 candidates in SS locals last year.

    We should root for UKIP at 30.1% because of Mike's bet
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tarleton said:

    There are 63,00 potential voters in S Shields and yet a mere 200 showed up to hear the charismatic nigel farage speak ...it doesn't sound like an upset to me ..it just sounds like voter apathy

    I was up in Shields 3 times this week and many folks didn't even know there was an election coming up ....UKIP have not even contested the seat since 2001 and yet we are supposed to believe there will be a new party getting 25% of the vote ?

    By-elections are by their nature strange beasts. Yet they can unquestionably shift the narrative and highlight changing patterns of voting.

    Depends what you mean by upset. UKIP winning would be a massive upset considering how safe a labour seat it is, but even just UKIP doing reasonably well cannot be ignored. That's still real votes and not a mere poll. Even if turnout will have been driven down by it being a labour safe seat on top of an unimpressive little Ed.

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    edited May 2013
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    LibDems run 0 candidates in SS locals last year.

    We should root for UKIP at 30.1% because of Mike's bet

    Top bet at 6/1.

    Fingers crossed
  • IOS
    IOS Posts: 1,450
    Think Labour could be on 42%

    Job Done.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    GIN1138 said:


    Anthony's graph is starting to get interesting (I'd say potentially much more interesting than the local elections


    Labour is starting to drop as the Tories are starting to rise.


    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2


    Is this the start of swingback?


    That Graph is worthless without a UKIP input.

  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2013
    MikeL said:

    If you look at the YouGov graph for the period since Eastleigh (ie line 4) Con is flat, Lab is significantly down and UKIP is significantly up. What does that tell us?

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/02/local-elections-and-question-ukip/

    Good spot! Perhaps UKIP have reached the Labour pain territory mentioned by Survation yesterday? Lets hope it shows up in tonight/tomorrow's results. :-)

  • Socrates
    Socrates Posts: 10,322
    carl said:

    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
    Sure. But there is affection for the Government too. After all, Cuba is much better in a lot of ways than some comparable countries.

    It's just not a tyrannical Communist caricature, that's my point. It's more complex than Plato's "escaping Cubans".
    Well, among the Cuban diaspora that escape to Cuba, Plato is certainly correct that Castro and the communists are highly unpopular.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,074
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
    South Shields gets a Faragasm?
  • SthLondonNick
    SthLondonNick Posts: 26
    kle4 said:

    I bet the winning 'speech', such as it is, was constructed from cliche building blocks 5 minutes after David M announced he was standing down.

    I'm guessing One Nation Labour will pop up. Too far, too fast. Tory Cuts. NHS?

  • GeoffM
    GeoffM Posts: 6,071
    TheScreamingEagles said:


    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal

    Where is Mr. Dancer when we need guidance on this matter?
    [Puts on hat constructed from tinfoil, sticky tape and the tormented souls of the dead]
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    corporeal said:

    kle4 said:

    How soon before the novelty of the graph toy begins to wear off for people? Exact odds please.

    Not for me though, the world of politics needs more charts (they seem to have fallen out of favour a bit), but as UKIP may find out, novelty appeal can wear off quickly sometimes.

    I kid UKIPers, I've been most impressed with UKIPs resilience after years of struggle.

    People will never tire of bar charts.
    True enough, but the Leics bar chart does not include our two UKIP councilors, who defected from the Tories, including a former deputy leader implicated in a p0rno scandal, and one who looks like Alf Garnett:
    http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicestershire-County-Councillor-Rob-Fraser-joins/story-18324974-detail/story.html

    Interestingly both are near the HS2 line proposed to pass through Leics without stopping. Not much support for it here.
  • SthLondonNick
    SthLondonNick Posts: 26
    bbcnickrobinson: Labour say UKIP will beat record ever election performance in South Shields - 30% possible. Lab win. Tories squeezed. Lib Dems squashed

    https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/330067732617900033
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    IOS said:

    Think Labour could be on 42%

    Job Done.

    Cue 'in a time of huge unpopularity of both LDs and Con, Lab should have gotten at least 80%! They're the real losers today!' comments. Or the UKIP spin, 'UKIP are the real winners (no matter what we got - hey, it's up from 0 last time)

    I can't wait for the county councils, they're at least interesting.

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
    South Shields gets a Faragasm?
    I thought it was only Mrs Farage and a foreign nurse that got the Faragasm.
  • john_zims
    john_zims Posts: 3,399
    @carl

    'Sure. But there is affection for the Government too. After all, Cuba is much better in a lot of ways than some comparable countries.'

    And the evidence to support that claim?
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Shipman: Ukip sources downplaying expectations - saying 25% more likely in South Shields. But also hopefully of touching 30% in Lincolnshire council
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
    Am worried that in South Shields the Tories have split the UKIP vote and let Labour in."

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/330068379484450816
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
    South Shields gets a Faragasm?
    I thought it was only Mrs Farage and a foreign nurse that got the Faragasm.
    I believe that it was seven Faragasms for the nurse, a level of stamina that beats even Tony Blair and Kim Jong Un
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Mail's Tim Shipman: Labour sources: they're winning South Shields but Ukip romping on high 20s maybe 30%. Tories collapse to single digits. Lib Dems obliterated

    Times' Savage: Senior Labour source: "quietly confident" on South Shields. Vote holding up. Lib Dems looking "particularly bad". Turnout around 40%.

    Mail's Chapman: South Shields: Labour expects to hold with reduced vote share in mid-40s. UKIP strong 2nd poss breaking 30%. Tories single figs, LD disaster

    SKY's Craig: Labour "quietly confident" in S Shields, their vote "in mid 40s", UKIP "hoovering up" Tories & LibDems "in high 20s, possibly breaking 30".

    If Labour is in the "mid 40s" in vote share it would be either the worst or second worst performance in a constituency they have won in every election since WWII.

    The only time Labour's vote share was in the 40s was in 1983 when it fell to 46.5% with the SDP getting 22.7%.

    Here is the table of vote shares for Labour: 
    2010 52.0%
    2005 60.5%
    2001 63.2%
    1997 71.4%
    1992 59.8%
    1987 57.9%
    1983 46.5%
    1979 57.1%
    1974 56.4%
    1970 60.2%
    1966 64.7%
    1964 55.1%
    1959 58.0%
    1955 59.6%
    1951 56.0%
    1950 56.5%
    1945 59.4%
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
    South Shields gets a Faragasm?
    Superb!

  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. M, fret not, I am here to save you from Mr. Eagles' deranged witterings.

    Obliterated is what Hannibal did to Saguntum. Or to the army of Flaminius. Or to the double sized army that Varro and Aemilius commanded.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    Hey! Where are all our Gee-Gaws? I liked the like/dislike button and the agree/disagree; it was fun and livened debate and comment.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    foxinsoxuk said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    So does that mean both LDs AND Cons "obliterated"?

    Yes, obliterated like the Carthaginians at Zama, when they were under the inept leadership of Hannibal
    South Shields gets a Faragasm?
    I thought it was only Mrs Farage and a foreign nurse that got the Faragasm.
    I believe that it was seven Faragasms for the nurse, a level of stamina that beats even Tony Blair and Kim Jong Un
    I do have a witty and humorous reply, but then I remembered, I'm specifically enjoined from posting x rated jokes on PB
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    anotherDave said:

    "Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
    Am worried that in South Shields the Tories have split the UKIP vote and let Labour in."

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/330068379484450816

    Eh, that joke's a bit of a flop - Farage did it much better when they came much closer to winning in Eastleigh than is likely here. Now it's been done.

  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    anotherDave said:

    "Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
    Am worried that in South Shields the Tories have split the UKIP vote and let Labour in."

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/330068379484450816

    Eh, that joke's a bit of a flop - Farage did it much better when they came much closer to winning in Eastleigh than is likely here. Now it's been done.
    Made me laugh.

  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    anotherDave said:

    kle4 said:

    anotherDave said:

    "Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
    Am worried that in South Shields the Tories have split the UKIP vote and let Labour in."

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/330068379484450816

    Eh, that joke's a bit of a flop - Farage did it much better when they came much closer to winning in Eastleigh than is likely here. Now it's been done.
    Made me laugh.

    Oh it's still funny - just not as funny as it was when the context was more appropriate.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Eagles, are you sure you mean 'enjoined'? Doesn't that mean when you have to do something rather than when you cannot?
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    To follow Lincolnshire results as they come

    http://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/election-results/115878.article
  • rogerh
    rogerh Posts: 282
    Tomorrows results for localss will be driven by the swings between partiesThere are several options to choose from.
    National swing ICM May 2009 v April 2013,Con to Lab 9.5%,Con to LD 1.5%,Con to UKIP 7%
    LD to Lab 8%,.UKIP to Lab 2 %

    COMRES May 2013 poll v actual Local 2009 Con to Lab 13.5%,Con to LD 0.5%,Con to UKIP 15.%.LD to Lab 12%,Lab To UKIP 3%,LD to UKIP 15%

    YOU GOV May 2013 V Actual Local 2009.Con to Lab 13%,Con to,Lib 0%,Con to UKIP 11%,Lib to Lab 13%,Con to UKIP 11%,UKIP to Lab 2%,Lib TO UKIP 11%.

    So who will be right?
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    kle4 said:

    anotherDave said:

    kle4 said:

    anotherDave said:

    "Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
    Am worried that in South Shields the Tories have split the UKIP vote and let Labour in."

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/330068379484450816

    Eh, that joke's a bit of a flop - Farage did it much better when they came much closer to winning in Eastleigh than is likely here. Now it's been done.
    Made me laugh.

    Oh it's still funny - just not as funny as it was when the context was more appropriate.
    What would be really funny would be a Labour vote share of 42%.

    It would be the joke of the century if it happened.
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    AveryLP just warming up for a few days spinning himself into the ground, I see. Labour disaster!

    You and Dan Hodges would get on great, Avery. Bet Dan's already got a whole folder of pre-written articles ready to launch.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    Nope. Parties are far too complacent a lot of the time, they need shaking up.
  • Ricardohos
    Ricardohos Posts: 258
    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    No you're not alone :)

    I tend to be left of centre, but I'd prob vote UKIP at the moment for all sorts of reasons, and good ones.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, are you sure you mean 'enjoined'? Doesn't that mean when you have to do something rather than when you cannot?

    My choice of words are correct.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/enjoined
  • carl
    carl Posts: 750
    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    Don't know about all three main parties, but the impact on the Tories will certainly be amusing.

    May day?
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Eagles, so it means both 'imposed' and 'forbidden'?! That's an interesting set of meanings.

    Anyway, I'm off. I hope the counts are early and the bets are green.
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    AveryLP said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Mail's Tim Shipman: Labour sources: they're winning South Shields but Ukip romping on high 20s maybe 30%. Tories collapse to single digits. Lib Dems obliterated

    Times' Savage: Senior Labour source: "quietly confident" on South Shields. Vote holding up. Lib Dems looking "particularly bad". Turnout around 40%.

    Mail's Chapman: South Shields: Labour expects to hold with reduced vote share in mid-40s. UKIP strong 2nd poss breaking 30%. Tories single figs, LD disaster

    SKY's Craig: Labour "quietly confident" in S Shields, their vote "in mid 40s", UKIP "hoovering up" Tories & LibDems "in high 20s, possibly breaking 30".

    If Labour is in the "mid 40s" in vote share it would be either the worst or second worst performance in a constituency they have won in every election since WWII.

    The only time Labour's vote share was in the 40s was in 1983 when it fell to 46.5% with the SDP getting 22.7%.

    Here is the table of vote shares for Labour: 
    2010 52.0%
    2005 60.5%
    2001 63.2%
    1997 71.4%
    1992 59.8%
    1987 57.9%
    1983 46.5%
    1979 57.1%
    1974 56.4%
    1970 60.2%
    1966 64.7%
    1964 55.1%
    1959 58.0%
    1955 59.6%
    1951 56.0%
    1950 56.5%
    1945 59.4%
    Oh dear
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "Lib Dems obliterated" "LD disaster" "Lib Dems squashed"

    This after Clegg boldly proclaimed the worst was over.

    With predictive powers like that he could almost be a PB Tory. ;)
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 1m

    Labour in South Shields says its vote share in mid-40s, UKIP reach 30 %, Tories fall from 21 % in 2010 to single figs. Libs obliterated.

    If those figures are true, that's pretty terrible for all the main parties.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Poll alert

    The Conservatives are losing six times as many voters to UKIP as the Labour Party, an exclusive poll for The Times suggests.

    The YouGov findings, which will alarm the Tory high command, compare votes cast in 2010 with voting intentions now and show that for every one Labour voter switching to UKIP there are six Tories. The analysis shows that of those who voted Conservative in 2010, 73 per cent would still vote Tory, 6 per cent Labour, 2 per cent Liberal Democrat and 18 per cent UKIP.


    ......

    Labour’s vote is holding up well, with 88 per cent of those voting for the party in 2010 still intending to vote the same way, 2 per cent switching to the Liberal Democrats and 4 per cent going to UKIP. The Lib Dem vote is changing most with 11 per cent switching to the Tories, 34 per cent going to Labour and 8 per cent going to UKIP.

    The pollsters analysed the voting intentions of almost 30,000 people, of whom 9,287 voted Tory, 7,488 Labour and 6,675 Liberal Democrat in 2010.

    ...

    • YouGov questioned 30,000 voters for The Times between April 1 and 13
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    No
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    SeanT said:

    Ricardohos said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    No you're not alone :)

    I tend to be left of centre, but I'd prob vote UKIP at the moment for all sorts of reasons, and good ones.
    I'd vote UKIP now, given the chance, in a local election (unless it was Boris). I will definitely vote UKIP at the euros. Not sure about the GE, yet.
    I wielded a pencil in their cause this morning. The revolution began in Kingsclere!

  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    carl said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    Don't know about all three main parties, but the impact on the Tories will certainly be amusing.

    May day?
    Possibly. The level of Tory panic in many places simply in the run up to the elections has been crazy. In places with virtually no Labour, the LDs 40 points behind and no sitting UKIP members, there have been election leaflets setting aside serious space to pleading people not to vote UKIP.

    The lack of composure seems significant, as it suggests a great many Tories will flip their sh*t tomorrow if things are anywhere close to what they fear, despite trying to prepare themselves for it.

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cannock Chase is counting tonight, even though Staffordshire as a whole won't be finished until tomorrow. And I assume Tamworth will also be counting tonight.

    (I know about Cannock because the BBC's Midlands Today programme just had a live report from the count).
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, so it means both 'imposed' and 'forbidden'?! That's an interesting set of meanings.

    Anyway, I'm off. I hope the counts are early and the bets are green.

    Is one of my my favourite words, for the simple contradiction when applied literally.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Socrates said:

    carl said:

    Plato said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Plato said:

    Tim Stanley has a most black-humoured piece in the DT re Lefties version of Righties from the pages of The Guardian...

    This made me LOL

    "3. Communism wasn’t all bad. Yes, you might have been at daily risk of getting shot for wearing glasses – but at least your corpse was guaranteed a job for life. To quote Seumas Milne,

    For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment.

    Now, if a journalist wrote that about Nazism, they’d rightly end up out of a job and living in a ivan down by the river..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100214938/revealed-the-five-loopiest-guardian-articles-of-all-time/

    A couple of years ago, at Keswick Film Festival, I watched an amateur produced film called "My DDR Teeshirt".
    The producer was a young man who, around 2005 or so went to Berlin and bought a teeshirt with the DDR emblem on it, not knowing what it was. (Bear with me) However, when he wore it he got some funny looks so decided to find out about the "DDR".
    He did some research, met some former escapees and some long term residents (including a Brit, who'd taught at East Germany's major university), and came to the conclusion that, horrible though the Communist regime had been in many ways, it wasn't at all difficult to find people who regretted it's demise.


    Thanks for that - I had a friend who's kid bought a Che tee shirt and no idea who he was = if he'd known any escaping Cubans - suspect he'd throw it in the bin pronto.
    "Escaping Cubans"?!

    How do you judge the popularity of Che / Fidel amongst the people of Cuba, dare I ask?
    I've been there and asked them. They would be noncommital at first but after they had worked out you weren't a government spy they would be very critical.
    Sure. But there is affection for the Government too. After all, Cuba is much better in a lot of ways than some comparable countries.

    It's just not a tyrannical Communist caricature, that's my point. It's more complex than Plato's "escaping Cubans".
    Well, among the Cuban diaspora that escape to Cuba, Plato is certainly correct that Castro and the communists are highly unpopular.
    FWIW, my Cuban friends in SoCal sent monthly food parcels to their family that didn't make it out. That's not a good sign in terms of a healthy, functioning economy.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Commentaries at this point risk looking silly tomorrow, but in case it's helpful, some impressions from the front. I've been in Beestion North all day, a Lib/Lab seat in Broxtowe (Notts) with a strongly entrenched LD councillor. Neither the Tories nor UKIP put out any leaflets at all, even though the division used to be Tory, and the LibDem pitched for a Tory tactical vote. We think the Labour share will be well up but we'll be surprised if we win.

    More generally, the feeling is that Notts is touch and go - Labour has (we think) swept most of the working-class north, ejecting most of the independents, but we think the LibDems have defended their 9 seats skilfully by ignoring nearly everything else, while we went for rebuilding the Labour vote in the Parliamentary marginals across the board and I think we'll be the largest party but not necessarily in absolute control. The Tory/UKIP split is hard to read, but we've not seen evidence of a big UKIP breakthrough anywhere in the county.

    We found the middle-class Labour vote extremely solid (plus lots of LibDems promising support at the GE, which is the traditional Broxtowe centre-left pattern), the working-class vote less so - not a lot of UKIP but lots of personal votes for the LibDem and a good chunk of abstention.
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    carl said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    Don't know about all three main parties, but the impact on the Tories will certainly be amusing.

    May day?
    Possibly. The level of Tory panic in many places simply in the run up to the elections has been crazy. In places with virtually no Labour, the LDs 40 points behind and no sitting UKIP members, there have been election leaflets setting aside serious space to pleading people not to vote UKIP.

    The lack of composure seems significant, as it suggests a great many Tories will flip their sh*t tomorrow if things are anywhere close to what they fear, despite trying to prepare themselves for it.
    If UKIP can secure a local government base, it will take years for the other parties to get rid of them. If at all.

    For the Tories it must be especially worrying, because the Reform Party of Canada showed that things can change very quickly.

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,074
    Blimey David Starkey AND Victoria Coren on QT tonight!
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Blimey David Starkey AND Victoria Coren on QT tonight!

    Surely Dimbleby knows his protocol, he should have used the Williams' proper title when introducing her.
  • TwistedFireStopper
    TwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    I didn't vote today, as there was no one worthy of my support. Instead, I spent a glorious day repairing what seemed like a million miles of sheep fencing around a neighbours land, watching a flight of Apaches lazily flying circuits around the village. Just had a barbie and some beers, and might just sit back and watch the fun of spin and counter spin.
    My view is that British politics is like Alien vs Predator. Whoever wins, we lose!
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Ballot boxes have started arriving here at the Cannock Chase Area count."

    https://twitter.com/search?q=cannock chase&src=typd

    Cannock Chase is an absolute must-win for Labour and Ed Miliband.
  • Millsy
    Millsy Posts: 900
    Nice article btw...
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    anotherDave said:

    SeanT said:

    Ricardohos said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    No you're not alone :)

    I tend to be left of centre, but I'd prob vote UKIP at the moment for all sorts of reasons, and good ones.
    I'd vote UKIP now, given the chance, in a local election (unless it was Boris). I will definitely vote UKIP at the euros. Not sure about the GE, yet.
    I wielded a pencil in their cause this morning. The revolution began in Kingsclere!

    Kingsclere, Hampshire?

    My folks are just down the road from there - between Manydown & Malshanger
  • hunchman
    hunchman Posts: 2,591
    Usually I give QT a complete miss these days, but Starkey's opening comments means I'll watch for a bit!

    UKIP around 30% is pretty good going in South Shields. I certainly sense a real 'screw you' mood in the country right now, with the prospect for a plague on all your houses election a la February 1974 right now. The whole Westminster village has become so pathetically detached from reality, its comical to watch it all really.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2013
    Confirmation that Tamworth is counting tonight, another crucial marginal seat:

    "Tamworth Council ‏@TamworthCouncil: Polling stations have now closed. Now awaiting ballot boxes to arrive for verification. #sccelection #tamelections"

    https://twitter.com/search?q=#sccelection&src=hash
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2013
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Blimey David Starkey AND Victoria Coren on QT tonight!

    The man of the moment Farage on this week afterwards...
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    There's a ward councillor near mine who's the spitting image of David Starkey; a pity he's not as entertaining as Dr Starkey, but there you go.
  • hunchman
    hunchman Posts: 2,591
    Starkey winding up Harriet lol. A wonderful sight!
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Blimey, lol!
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Local by-election

    Sunderland MB, Houghton

    Lab hold

    At least we can count on Sunderland for counting fast
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Tories losing six times as many votes to UKIP as Labour.

    Oh no, Labour will be devastated and very afraid, it's a tragedy.

    The risk for Labour is not where the *current* UKIP voters came from [they are largely Tories] but where the *future* ones will come from.

    UKIP has eaten the Tories C1/C2 support and the NOTAs. Labour C2 is next.
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Charles said:

    anotherDave said:

    SeanT said:

    Ricardohos said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I alone in wanting UKIP to romp to a record vote everywhere, just for the entertainment value of seeing all three main parties reduced to panicked hysteria?

    No you're not alone :)

    I tend to be left of centre, but I'd prob vote UKIP at the moment for all sorts of reasons, and good ones.
    I'd vote UKIP now, given the chance, in a local election (unless it was Boris). I will definitely vote UKIP at the euros. Not sure about the GE, yet.
    I wielded a pencil in their cause this morning. The revolution began in Kingsclere!

    Kingsclere, Hampshire?

    My folks are just down the road from there - between Manydown & Malshanger
    Yes, the polling station is in Hannington village hall. Small world. :-)

  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited May 2013
    SeanT said:

    Ken Clarke should be sacked for calling Kippers clowns. It was just the most asinine, condescending bollocks.

    And it was terrible politics. Way to insult 3m people.

    Time to retire, Ken.

    Ken Clarke has a majority in his constituency of 15,000, at a time when his views are wildly out of step with what appears to be the driving force of current conservatism in this country, so why should be bother retiring? His voters still like him a lot even if his party appears to have moved on.

    I suspect what you mean and would prefer is that he be retired from front line politics, which is not in his hands to decide (if they'll give you a job, why not take it?).Take it up with Cameron.

    I also suspect had his asinine, condescending bollocks been directed at some other group, no-one on the right would have give two craps, and would be applauding his forthright views and vast experience right now.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    If Labour is 45, UKIP 30, the Tories in single figures and the LDs obliterated, where have the other 15% to 20% of the votes gone in South Shields?
  • Carola
    Carola Posts: 1,805
    Atmosphere of disaffected meh on QT.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited May 2013
    Charles said:

    Labour C2 is next.

    Labour's 2010 stay-at-homes may be there already.,..but tim takes comfort from research that focuses only on Labour's 2010 die hards....
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,802
    Exclusive: Ukip could have 10 MPs and a minister after 2015, says Stuart Wheeler

    The United Kingdom Independence Party could have as many as 10 MPs after the next election and help to form a Coalition in the event of a hung Parliament, according to the party’s treasurer.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10034251/Exclusive-Ukip-could-have-10-MPs-and-a-minister-after-2015-says-Stuart-Wheeler.html
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